View Full Version : NBA: Can you really be considered one of the greatest ever....
If you play for more than two teams? Or are you just considered one of the best at your position?
KG - 3 teams
Barkley - 3 teams
Shaq - 6...6!...teams
Shaq did help 2 different franchises win rings though.
The true greats, MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, all played on one team with the exception of kareem.
I know I left some guys off both lists, but you get the idea.
irishock
06-28-2013, 12:04 AM
:lol putting Kobe in the same sentence as those other loyal players
dude would be a Chicago Bull right now if it wasn't for Jerry West
AchillesHeel
06-28-2013, 12:05 AM
Sometimes you can't control your own destiny. Shaq got traded because Lakers wanted to keep Kobe and not let him sign elsewhere, KG and Pierce (!) got traded to BK because Boston is rebuilding
Heck, even MJ came back to the NBA to play for the Wizards
I think at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many franchises one has played for, if he wins rings, he's an all-time great.
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:06 AM
Kobe was drafted by Charlotte... not to mention he doesn't belong in any 'true greats' list...
Kobe was drafted by Charlotte... not to mention he doesn't belong in any 'true greats' list...
Cmon now, while i cant stand kobe as much as most...he does have 5 rings as a 1 or 1a on his team.
And I dont remember Kobe ever playing a game in a Hornets uniform.
LethalLebron
06-28-2013, 12:09 AM
Cant control what your franchise doesnt do for you.
A lot of guys get stranded and bad situations and leave.
Magic, Kobe and Abdul-Jabbar all asked for trades or wanted a coach fired.
kobe asked for a trade and didn't want the Lakers to get anything in return from the Bulls. He asked for Bynum to get traded too.
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:12 AM
Cmon now, while i cant stand kobe as much as most...he does have 5 rings as a 1 or 1a on his team.
He has 2 rings as 1a, like Gasol... is he a true great?...
How many 'true greats' have been coattaling dominant big man in their prime? whining to get help?
Dude also forced his way out of Charlotte... people shit on Lebron as a Cavalier, but dude stuck with the team that drafted him...
AchillesHeel
06-28-2013, 12:12 AM
Cant control what your franchise doesnt do for you.
A lot of guys get stranded and bad situations and leave.
Magic, Kobe and Abdul-Jabbar all asked for trades or wanted a coach fired.
kobe asked for a trade and didn't want the Lakers to get anything in return from the Bulls. He asked for Bynum to get traded too.
I'm pretty sure Bulls were offering Deng for Kobe in 07. It would have happened, but Jerry Buss was smart and told Kobe he'd trade him to the Pistons, Kirby got down on his knees and begged to stay.
Cant control what your franchise doesnt do for you.
A lot of guys get stranded and bad situations and leave.
Magic, Kobe and Abdul-Jabbar all asked for trades or wanted a coach fired.
I did mention this in another thread about player quitting on their team. Bottom line is if they arent traded, then history is kind to them. Plus I said more than 2 teams. I given you a out of jail free card for one franchise jump.
This question is not in refernece to wanting to be traded. That is for another topic. This it is strictly based on number of franchises played for.
LethalLebron
06-28-2013, 12:15 AM
I'm pretty sure Bulls were offering Deng for Kobe in 07. It would have happened, but Jerry Buss was smart and told Kobe he'd trade him to the Pistons, Kirby got down on his knees and begged to stay.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=3089225&src=de (http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=3089225&src=desktop)desktop
kobe wasn't even allowing the Lakers to get anything in return.
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:16 AM
I don't really know that 'team jump' really matters... Shaq in his prime was a force to be reckoned with... the fact that he started to move around in the twilight of his career, IMO, doesn't matter much. It's like using Jordan's wizards years against him.
I don't really know that 'team jump' really matters... Shaq in his prime was a force to be reckoned with... the fact that he started to move around in the twilight of his career, IMO, doesn't matter much. It's like using Jordan's wizards years against him.
The wizards were only Jordans 2nd team. Far point about Shaq, but doesnt playing for 6 teams have any effect on legacy.
Again this is strictly for discussion.
He has 2 rings as 1a, like Gasol... is he a true great?...
How many 'true greats' have been coattaling dominant big man in their prime? whining to get help?
Dude also forced his way out of Charlotte... people shit on Lebron as a Cavalier, but dude stuck with the team that drafted him...
I listed Duncan ahead of Kobe for a reason, and you make great points about him which I agree with for the most part and have also discussed in other threads, but he is still one of the all time greats.
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:30 AM
The wizards were only Jordans 2nd team. Far point about Shaq, but doesnt playing for 6 teams have any effect on legacy.
Again this is strictly for discussion.
Realistically, he played basically for 3 teams... Orlando, which is the team that drafted him, Lakers in his prime, and you can add Miami, where he played 4 seasons... everything after that, was mostly 1 season (Phoenix was 1 1/4 seasons basically).
Here's a case of Orlando being the team that drafted him and he stuck with them. Some other player didn't want to do that, but can you hold that against Shaq or Lebron?
Garnett is going to be in his 3rd team now... I don't think that's necessarily a blemish in his career. Truth is, a lot of these guys are remembered for what they were in their primes, not the twilight of their careers.
Look at Moses Malone... he played for 8 NBA teams and 2 ABA teams.
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:31 AM
I listed Duncan ahead of Kobe for a reason, and you make great points about him which I agree with for the most part and have also discussed in other threads, but he is still one of the all time greats.
disagree... glorified media 'star' at best...
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:33 AM
The reality is that a guy like Shaq didn't know when to call it quits... Moses Malone was the same... he was done by the time he played for the Spurs... so they keep jumping on one season deals from team to team until they finally realize it's time to hang em up.
I don't know that's something you can hold against them.
StrengthAndHonor
06-28-2013, 12:37 AM
:lol putting Kobe in the same sentence as those other loyal players
dude would be a Chicago Bull right now if it wasn't for Jerry West
Fwiw. Magic also demanded a trade in the 80's.
Bynumite
06-28-2013, 12:44 AM
disagree... glorified media 'star' at best...
Still had a career good enough to shit all over your homeboy Vaginobili
Fellow argie single-handedly killing the spurs 5th title aspirations :lmao
ElNono
06-28-2013, 12:50 AM
Still had a career good enough to shit all over your homeboy Vaginobili
Nobody is calling Manu an 'all time great' or even a 'star'... I can't consider the absolute record holder for most bricks in NBA history an 'all time great'... he ranks with guys like Iverson and T-Mac... I can't call any of those guys 'all time greats', tbh...
Rogue
06-28-2013, 01:05 AM
loyalty has nothing to do with greatness imho. probably those players won't get any statues but their achievements will always stand. Henry got a statue before the emirates stadium but it doesn't mean he's better than Ronaldo (the fat one) or cantona imho
spurraider21
06-28-2013, 01:20 AM
Kobe Bryant is the greatest volume scorer of all timePERIOD
he's the best of the group of players headlined by iverson, tmac, francis, etc
Rogue
06-28-2013, 01:29 AM
Kobe Bryant is the greatest volume scorer of all timePERIOD
he's the best of the group of players headlined by iverson, tmac, francis, etc
and he's lucky enough that he has more rings than all his fellows combined
spurraider21
06-28-2013, 01:30 AM
and he's lucky enough that he has more rings that all his fellows combined
thats why i put him on top of that group. if he wasn't lucky enough to get traded from charlotte onto Diesel's team he wouldn't have any rings right now. FACT
LnGrrrR
06-28-2013, 07:52 AM
UZER has impressively rocketed up my list of "worst ST posters" in a short amount of time.
UZER has impressively rocketed up my list of "worst ST posters" in a short amount of time.
:cry no...please dont put me on that LnGrrrR world famous list of "worst ST posters". You'll ruin my e-cred all over the interwebs. At least wait until I get to 21k post like you before you judge me.
LnGrrrR
06-28-2013, 08:21 AM
You can go upstairs now.
LnGrrrR
06-28-2013, 08:44 AM
:lol Eh, maybe I was wrong about you. That was a nice touche.
spurs_fan_in_exile
06-28-2013, 10:12 AM
Of course you can. Kareem was before my time but the way older guys I work with tell it his last seasons were just as painful to watch as Shaq's decline, he just managed to stay in one spot.
Gotta take them on a case by case basis. Now if you sign a big contract and pout your way into a trade, that will cost you a few slots on the GOAT list in my book.
da_suns_fan
06-28-2013, 11:16 AM
If you play for more than two teams? Or are you just considered one of the best at your position?
KG - 3 teams
Barkley - 3 teams
Shaq - 6...6!...teams
Shaq did help 2 different franchises win rings though.
The true greats, MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, all played on one team with the exception of kareem.
I know I left some guys off both lists, but you get the idea.
Pretty stupid thread. Players in bold played majority (if not all) of their careers before free agency.
Tom Chambers was NBA's first unrestricted free agent back in 1988.
Pretty stupid thread. Players in bold played majority (if not all) of their careers before free agency.
Tom Chambers was NBA's first unrestricted free agent back in 1988.
Yet somehow Kareem still forced a trade from the Bucks to LA before free agency existed. It was harder but still possible, so to dismiss the entire thread because Tom Chambers was the first free agent is pretty stupid.
Juggity
06-28-2013, 11:27 AM
Cmon now, while i cant stand kobe as much as most...he does have 5 rings as a 1 or 1a on his team.
And I dont remember Kobe ever playing a game in a Hornets uniform.
3 rings as a beta, 1 ring as an alpha, and 1 as a 6-24 monstrosity.
da_suns_fan
06-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Yet somehow Kareem still forced a trade from the Bucks to LA before free agency existed. It was harder but still possible, so to dismiss the entire thread because Tom Chambers was the first free agent is pretty stupid.
Using "how many teams they played for" is probably the dumbest criteria Ive ever heard used to determine "the greats".
Jordan played for two teams so that completely screws up the "has to play for one team" argument. Likewise, why should KG be penalized for playing for three teams? Minnesota basically "freed" him after 8 seasons (or something) and Boston has no loyalty towards him because he played most of his career somewhere else. If KG had been drafted by San Antonio and played his whole career there its just as unlikely the Spurs would be just as against trading him as they are trading Duncan.
Likewise, Im sure the Magic would have kept Shaq his entire career if Shaq would have allowed it.
Using "how many teams they played for" is probably the dumbest criteria Ive ever heard used to determine "the greats".
Jordan played for two teams so that completely screws up the "has to play for one team" argument. Likewise, why should KG be penalized for playing for three teams? Minnesota basically "freed" him after 8 seasons (or something) and Boston has no loyalty towards him because he played most of his career somewhere else. If KG had been drafted by San Antonio and played his whole career there its just as unlikely the Spurs would be just as against trading him as they are trading Duncan.
Likewise, Im sure the Magic would have kept Shaq his entire career if Shaq would have allowed it.
Reading comprehension...you should try it. I never said one team was the criteria.
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