On Oberto, Scola, Herman and other herbs...

[Donguiyo]

About comparing Oberto to Scola and/or to Vlade Divac and who can help the Spurs more, let me say something. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, imagined that Manu was going to become what he became. And, very few also imagined that Rasho was going to perform as he did.

Oberto and Hermann have the potential to be super stars, like Manu, but both can also do below expectactions as Rasho did. I would have prefered Scola to Oberto, BUT...perhaps Oberto will adapt better than Scola would. We don't know. What I can tell through my talks with the San Antonio press is that Oberto, for sure, has way better hands that Nazr. He can get similar number of rebounds as Nazr M., but he can score more (well, not from free throws. In free throws Oberto shares something with Shaquille O'Neal: they both suck at it!!...but well, the man is not perfect and overall will do better than either Nazr or Rasho). Yet, all this is theoretically speaking. Don't be anxious and give the man his chance. Relax and wait :smokin

Cheers for all.

Guillermo.

[Tom_Foolery]

I get the feeling that the Oberto signing may have a little to do with other NBA teams' interest in Oberto. I think Spurs Mgt knew Oberto was going to play in the NBA and would've prefered to snatch Oberto up before someone else.

I also think it had to do with Scola's contract buyout. I think the Spurs knew they will always have Scola's rights but added Oberto as insurance to keep other teams from getting him.

I also think this may mean Rasho will probably be traded sometime this or next season. Oberto has tons of potential and is a hard worker and I just don't see Oberto sitting on the bench way down on the depth chart, especially at his age. I see Pop making sure he's a good contributor off the bench, especially since he and Manu have some great chemistry together.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

but Oberto is 30...

And...?

He's proven, he knows how to play. I fhis game works in the NBA he's as good as gold.

[zeleni]

but well, the man is not perfect and overall will do better than either Nazr or Rasho). Yet, all this is theoretically speaking. Don't be anxious and give the man his chance.


Let's hope the best of the three remains in San Antonio. Slovene or not.

[Donguiyo]

well, that's why the Spurs gave him a 3-year contract....in theory he only needs to adapt to NBA rules. Like Manu, he won titles in Argentina, Europe and the gold medal in the Olympics. He was a key player when the US NBA-made team lost for the 1st time to Argentina in 2002 in Indianapolis. He was everything but NBA experience. On his advantage plays the fact that he will have his friend Manu close.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Guillermo,

Several of our Argentine posters have made reference to him being hot-headed and having occasional attitude problems. Do you share that point of view?

Edit: I'm asking about Oberto

[Donguiyo]

dear bigbenETC, I don't believe that Oberto is hot tempered. He was the captain of the Argentinean team at the last World Championships in Indianapolis. Cheers. G.

[Horry For 3!]

Hopefully Oberto will be able to produce.

[manubili]

Oberto isn't as cool as Manu, that's for sure.
But he isn't stupid. He speaks when he has to. I remember the Championship final against Serbia-Montenegro, he was really mad ond the refs, as anyone should be if your getting your cup stolen in that way, but he did no mistake.
He's may be hot tempered, but his attitude is great, IMO.

[smeagol]

but Oberto is 30...
Any other words in your vocabulary other than "Oberto is 30" and "Scola>Oberto"?

[spvrs]

guys there is no way Oberto is going to be a super star in this league... I'm sure he'll do fine but get real

[E20]

When Oberto plays in the NBA then I'll comment on how good he is. I don't really care if he was good overseas I wanna see how he will do in the NBA.

[dunkman]

Oberto isn't as cool as Manu, that's for sure.
But he isn't stupid. He speaks when he has to. I remember the Championship final against Serbia-Montenegro, he was really mad ond the refs, as anyone should be if your getting your cup stolen in that way, but he did no mistake.
He's may be hot tempered, but his attitude is great, IMO.IMO, the Argentine team could have won the game confortable, but they choked at the end of the regular game. That had more influence than the no-call, over which some cant move on.

The refs ware one from Dominican Republic, the other from Greece. Geopolitically, even when such analysis makes no sense, one ref was from Americas, the other, member of NATO country. Why would they help Serbia-Montenegro (then Yugoslavia)?

Serbia-Montengro was member of five championship teams. 1970, 1978, 1990 in Buenos Aires, 1998 and 2002 in Indianapolis. You think they received help? From the refs?

Serbia-Montengro already eliminated the US, which ware the favorites. Also rallied to the win. Refs helped? Or it was because the US gambled on defense giving one of our players 3-4 wide open shots...

The game with Argentina went to overtime, where Serbia-Montenegro played better. Bodiroga is well known as clutch player.

Should we say that Argentina won in Syndey because the refs helped in the game with the US, fouling out Duncan. Or it was because no one could hit a jumper in their team?

IMO, Argentina played well, but they lost in the final game in Indianapolis 2002, because they choked in the 4-th quarter and overtime. Also Manu was injured in the previous game. Dont blame the refs.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

IMO, the Argentine team could have won the game confortable, but they choked at the end of the regular game. That had more influence than the no-call, over which some cant move on.

The refs ware one from Dominican Republic, the other from Greece. Geopolitically, even when such analysis makes no sense, one ref was from Americas, the other, member of NATO country. Why would they help Serbia-Montenegro (then Yugoslavia)?

Serbia-Montengro was member of five championship teams. 1970, 1978, 1990 in Buenos Aires, 1998 and 2002 in Indianapolis. You think they received help? From the refs?

Serbia-Montengro already eliminated the US, which ware the favorites. Also rallied to the win. Refs helped? Or it was because the US gambled on defense giving one of our players 3-4 wide open shots...

The game with Argentina went to overtime, where Serbia-Montenegro played better. Bodiroga is well known as clutch player.

Should we say that Argentina won in Syndey because the refs helped in the game with the US, fouling out Duncan. Or it was because no one could hit a jumper in their team?

IMO, Argentina played well, but they lost in the final game in Indianapolis 2002, because they choked in the 4-th quarter and overtime. Also Manu was injured in the previous game. Dont blame the refs.

I'm sorry, but that uncalled foul was one of the worst and most obvious mistakes in the history of basketball, along with the 1972 Olympics. Sconochini drove to the rim for an uncontested layup, and was fouled on his way up with half a second left in a tied game. Argentina (with an injured Manu) did collapse, but to deny that the call would have changed things is denying the obvious.


The refs ware one from Dominican Republic, the other from Greece. Geopolitically, even when such analysis makes no sense, one ref was from Americas, the other, member of NATO country. Why would they help Serbia-Montenegro (then Yugoslavia)?

Serbia-Montengro was member of five championship teams. 1970, 1978, 1990 in Buenos Aires, 1998 and 2002 in Indianapolis. You think they received help? From the refs?

NATO had nothing to do with it if you wanna go conspiracy style. In any case, think about the Greek Pitsilkas (the ref which was closer to the incident), and how much political weight Yugoslavia/ Serbia has in European basketball.

Nobody said that Yugoslavia won the other tournaments because of the refs, but in 2002, they certainly received a huge help.

[dunkman]

Fans ware rooting for Yugoslavia in mayority. The pressure was huge, neither ref saw the foul - that wasnt that obvious (Divac and Jaric sandwiched Sconochini), they left the game go, the rest is history.

Link (http://www.terra.es/deportes/articulo/html/dpo3790.htm)

El árbitro. Pitsilkas: "Scola hizo falta a Divac"
El griego Nikos Pitsilkas, árbitro principal en la final, donde formó pareja con el dominicano Reynaldo Mercedes, aseguró que el ala-pívot argentino Luis Scola cometió falta sobre el pívot yugoslavo en la penúltima jugada del encuentro. "Yo soy responsable de esa jugada porque estaba al lado. Scola hace falta. Estoy seguro de que hace falta. Es más, son tres los jugadores que hacen falta a Divac. De la última jugada no hablo. Yo no estaba en esa parte del campo. Quien debía pitar o dejarla pasar era mi compañero".

Pitsilkas says that he saw three players fouling Divac on one of the "polemic" calls, and on the last no-call he says, he cant comment, because he wasnt on that part of the court, and the ref that was closer was the Dominican Mercedes.

[ceds]

After watching the worlds i came away thinking Argentina was the best team. Manu was injured and the ref missed a call at a critical moment. It was no conspiracy though

Man it must have been sweet for the Argentine fans when Manu got revenge 2 years later and hit that crazy buzzer beater to knock them out of the olympics.

[Mr. Body]

I watched the game as well and thought suspicious/faulty calls decided the game for Serbia/Montenegro. I didn't feel they deserved to celebrate so heartily at the end - it was given to them.

In a show of karma, they were lousy in the Olympics, never competing after Manu's buzzer beater. I admit I was very happy to see that.

[Extra Stout]

guys there is no way Oberto is going to be a super star in this league... I'm sure he'll do fine but get realTrue... from the moment Manu came into the league, those in the know were discussing whether he had the potential to become a star in the NBA.

Nobody is saying that about Oberto. He's a relatively known quantity. The Spurs have gotten themselves a solid, dependable backup 5 for the next three years.

Hermann a superstar? Really? Then why haven't any NBA teams given him a look yet? (Hint: defense)

Scola probably has the most upside overall (though he also could be a bust), but it's not like he's going to become a superstar in San Antonio. The Spurs have this guy named Tim Duncan playing power forward right now, and I have a hunch that Scola won't be moving ahead of him in the rotation.

Oh wait. Duncan's about to turn 30 in the next year or so. Apparently once players turn 30, they suck. I guess we really DO need Scola.

[nkdlunch]

When Oberto plays in the NBA then I'll comment on how good he is. I don't really care if he was good overseas I wanna see how he will do in the NBA.

I agree. Manu is a phenom that won't repeat itself. But hopefully Oberto will be a good role player that will contribute.

[hendrix]

One thing I can guaransheed... Oberto is gonna give 110% every game. To be in the NBA is his dream since 97 (they said he had the potential back then).
Argentina's NT is used to play in a man-to-man-aggresive-type-of-defense a lot, and he was a monster. So i assume he's gonna kick some ass. At the offense, he has the short turn-around jumper, some hooks and speed. If matched with a slow center, he can be fairly good.

[SWC Bonfire]

People criticize Oberto being 30 years old and in the same breath criticize the NBA for having a bunch of young punks who are thugs... did you ever think that Oberto may end up being more sucessful more quickly because of his maturity? It's a big deal adapting to a new country and culture (granted, the guys who have played in Europe have dealt with that) and not allowing the transition into a new life affect your game too much.

[SpursChampsIII]

Any other words in your vocabulary other than "Oberto is 30" and "Scola>Oberto"?

Paul Bearer > Shawn Michaels
Brooklyn Brawler > Shawn Michaels

That's the only scrubs my son could think of. :lol

[FoxMulder]

IMO, the Argentine team could have won the game confortable, but they choked at the end of the regular game. That had more influence than the no-call, over which some cant move on.

The refs ware one from Dominican Republic, the other from Greece. Geopolitically, even when such analysis makes no sense, one ref was from Americas, the other, member of NATO country. Why would they help Serbia-Montenegro (then Yugoslavia)?

Serbia-Montengro was member of five championship teams. 1970, 1978, 1990 in Buenos Aires, 1998 and 2002 in Indianapolis. You think they received help? From the refs?

Serbia-Montengro already eliminated the US, which ware the favorites. Also rallied to the win. Refs helped? Or it was because the US gambled on defense giving one of our players 3-4 wide open shots...

The game with Argentina went to overtime, where Serbia-Montenegro played better. Bodiroga is well known as clutch player.

Should we say that Argentina won in Syndey because the refs helped in the game with the US, fouling out Duncan. Or it was because no one could hit a jumper in their team?

IMO, Argentina played well, but they lost in the final game in Indianapolis 2002, because they choked in the 4-th quarter and overtime. Also Manu was injured in the previous game. Dont blame the refs.

I was watching that game. It was shameless... the refs weren´t helping Serbia? Yeah shure, ask Vlade Divac who was playing in that game... and was apologizing with the argentinian players in the hotel...

Maybe they won several titles... but that was a stealing one...
Pitsilkas was the real guilty, even he never ref again after that game... that´s giving you a clue... and maybe you didn´t know but the most powerful organizations at that time were Greece and Yugoslavia... or Serbia as you prefer

The players were so upset with the last calls (3 straight fouls never called!! 2 in the middle of the court and the last one) than all of them lost their heads. Even Oberto who always was cool and calm...

and they never recovered from that...

Plus Manu was really bad injured...

The Argentinian Team Plays good until they feel stealed from the pocket...

But why are you so surprised... Marbury brokes Oberto´s hand... if this wasn't a hot headed reaction....

And Argentina beats USA in Athens I don´t remember Sydney...

[samikeyp]

When Oberto plays in the NBA then I'll comment on how good he is. I don't really care if he was good overseas I wanna see how he will do in the NBA.

I am with you.

[dunkman]

In the Dominican Republic, I dont know how much basket do they play. You cant have all refs from countries with high basketball level. FIBA is a World wide organization with +200 federations. Why Mercedes didnt call it, go ask him.

Why did Mangano put Ginobili in the third and forth quarter when he was injured? In the overtime, why did the Argentines changed the offense going to shot from the perimeter, instead of going inside as in the rest of the game? Go figure... who knows.

Serbia - Montenegro played lousy at the Olympics, because we sent the third team to the Olympics and because there is a change of generations, so those players didnt had the necessary experience. Also, for our federation, basketball at the Olympics games and World Championship is not anywhere near of same importance.

The Olympics team lost support when they lost against the USA team in Belgrade, which was IMO the reason they played so bad later. A week later we lost a close game against Argentina, that sent their best players at the tournament - and I think it was the closest game Argentina won on the Olympics. Finally, one horrible ref decision against a small team sent us home, but I think we cant allow ourselfs to make a big deal of that. There is no excuse, they played bad most of the time.

In the past Italians always complained when they couldnt win us. In the mean time they tried to beat (literally) our players to win at least one match on an international tournament. Then ware the Spaniards. Writing endless complains in the media, as if it could change something. Next the Russians. First complain about the "mafia", then fix to lose a match to sent our team out of a tournament.

But nothing really compares to this shameless and endless whining. And lets speak about karma...

We shell see at the next Worlds Championship.

PS.
IMO, Divac is a generous good person, he felt confused by the way Argentines took the lose. I'm sure his words ware tergiversed to ventilate passions.

[Athenea]

Hey Dunk, go tell the international press (french, american, spanish) about it.
The 2002 final was robbery. That's my opinion but I don't go poiting guns to the heads of journalists to agree w/me.

PS: dunk, is that u? :angel

[dunkman]

Well Athe, the contact existed (altrough it's not the same to see something at film and live in 3D), and the no-call benefited our team. But, robbery? Why? Even losing those finals, the team already fullfiled with the win over the USA team. They started bad that tournament, the expectations ware not that high at that point. A second place would have seen ok, by most. We already had the gold from the previous tournament.

Now, IMO the American media has an agenda, they wouldnt pass the opportunity to say something bad about Serbia. They warent happy with the USA team elimination, either.

I saw various Spanish newspapers and they ware not reporting anything irregular.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Well Athe, the contact existed (altrough it's not the same to see something at film and live in 3D), and the no-call benefited our team. But, robbery? Why? Even losing those finals, the team already fullfiled with the win over the USA team. They started bad that tournament, the expectations ware not that high at that point. A second place would have seen ok, by most. We already had the gold from the previous tournament.

Now, IMO the American media has an agenda, they wouldnt pass the opportunity to say something bad out Serbia. They warent happy with the USA team elimination, either.

I saw various Spanish newspapers and they ware not reporting anything irregular.
Give me a break! so there's no conspiracy unless its against Serbia & Montenegro, then you go all Mel Gibson in "Conspiracy Theory" on us!! That's laughable! I'm not saying there was a plan to help Yogoslavia win, but that non-call is what won the game for you, and there is no two ways about it!

[dunkman]

Give me a break! so there's no conspiracy unless its against Serbia & Montenegro, then you go all Mel Gibson in "Conspiracy Theory" on us!! That's laughable! I'm not saying there was a plan to help Yogoslavia win, but that non-call is what won the game for you, and there is no two ways about it!
Whatever. But, remember that the US team and media complained about the FIBA refs on the Olympic Games. Duncan was quoted saying that FIBA "sucks". Marbury felt so happy about the situation, that he choosed to break Oberto's hand. Fortunately, they didnt went further in whining, and Oberto recovered from his injury.

But as there is no two ways using that logic, Argentina didnt won the Olympic gold, the polemic calls did it for you.