Zach Lowe on Spurs Cap Situation

[deibero]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA)3m (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/352509361526026240)
Most likely course for Spurs now is to stay over the cap via Manu/Tiago cap holds, use full mid-level, then sign new Manu/Tiago deals.

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA)2m (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/352509640359153664)
Spurs might in theory be able to get a tad under cap, that course no longer makes sense, and full MLE seems to have been their plan.

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA)2m (https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/352509795728764929)
My guess is Spurs have 2-3 candidates in mind for the full MLE and are confident they can get one. Always far ahead of the game.

Well that makes sense...full mle is 4yrs/22mil and u dont have to amnesty anyone...they get also the vet minimum to add someone else...under that scneario they can also re-sign neal with some cap space...

[Bruno]

Well, I would be way more careful than Zach Lowe about Spurs taking the MLE road. They are still kinda in a gray area where it's not clear that what they will do.

And if Spurs opt for the MLE, it will makes the Jean-Charles pick way less understandable.

[HI-FI]

Well that's better news. Hopefully there are some good surprises left.

[spursince#99]

Well, I would be way more careful than Zach Lowe about Spurs taking the MLE road. They are still kinda in a gray area where it's not clear that what they will do.

And if Spurs opt for the MLE, it will makes the Jean-Charles pick way less understandable.

So what is the other alternative?

[Bruno]

So what is the other alternative?

Cap space + room exception.

[Knoxxx]

Thanks for the post. I was showing Spurs at possibly $2.3 million below cap after signing Splitter/Manu with what we now know about their deals. That would be without Neal coming back and no amnesty of Bonner.

It may be the Spurs sign Neal and go over the cap, then I guess we could have about $5 million either way. I was not aware we could get the full MLE this year but hopefully true.

As far as who we could get for $5 million as a FA, sounds like Kirlenko would be doubtful but not impossible depending on how the market plays out. As we know, there are plenty of overpriced vets out there still to be signed including numerous bigs.

The odd thing about it all to me is that I don't see us coming anywhere near our $70 million payroll from last year, I don't see how we can get that up much above $65 million. Smells like a waste of the best of Duncan's limited remaining years for 2013-14.

[Robz4000]

I said it before and I'll say it again: Spurs are looking to make a trade. May just be a S&T, but they've got the stashed picks and expiring contract(s) to make some sort of deal. Just hope it isn't for Ellis or someone equally as useless to this team.

[spursince#99]

Cap space + room exception.


How much more would the cap space be over the MLE?

[Bruno]

How much more would the cap space be over the MLE?

MLE is $5.15M. Spurs could clear $6M in cap space by amnestying Bonner and renouncing to Neal.

[tesseractive]

Given what they've already announced, I think using the MLE is the best play. It allows us to bring back Neal with no concern for cap and try to trade Bonner either this summer or at the trade deadline as an expiring.

According to the salary cap faq, if we move Bonner we can take back up to 150% of his salary + $100K, which puts it up near $7M. (More if we throw in DeColo or CoJo or whoever.) Given all the teams that want to play in the free agency sweepstakes next year, there's a fair chance we can get a useful asset for that. So it's probably smarter than amnestying him anyway.

Is this the most bestest summer haul ever? No. But if we bring back everyone who played in the Finals and still have a chance to bring in two more decent assets with the MLE and with Bonner's expiring, I don't think cliff jumping is warranted unless you just like that sort of thing.

[spursince#99]

MLE is $5.15M. Spurs could clear $6M in cap space by amnestying Bonner and renouncing to Neal.


Oh that's not happening. MLE it is. :lol

[elemento]

Well, I would be way more careful than Zach Lowe about Spurs taking the MLE road. They are still kinda in a gray area where it's not clear that what they will do.

And if Spurs opt for the MLE, it will makes the Jean-Charles pick way less understandable.

Don't you think Buford actually liked JC Bruno? I know you have some reservations about him, but If Buford had him as a top20 pick, he simply went to BPA route, no matter if the boy would have to stay in Europe or not.

[Shifty]

MLE is $5.15M. Spurs could clear $6M in cap space by amnestying Bonner and renouncing to Neal.
So technically they could get TWO decent free agents.

[spursince#99]

Don't you think Buford actually liked JC Bruno? I know you have some reservations about him, but If Buford had him as a top20 pick, he simply went to BPA route, no matter if the boy would have to stay in Europe or not.


This is what I'm starting to believe more and more.

[Mel_13]

So technically they could get TWO decent free agents.

It's one or the other. Can't do both.

[Mal]

So technically they could get TWO decent free agents.

Nope. U cant use space and MLE same year

[tesseractive]

So technically they could get TWO decent free agents.
If they use the cap space to sign a free agent, they only get the Room Exception, not the MLE.

Edit: oops, late to the party. :lol

[tuncaboylu]

Now we should court on Jarrett Jack or Krilenko.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i smell neal walking or let walk. and bonner amnestied or traded.

[spursince#99]

The MLE and LLE can both be used simultaneously right?

[DesignatedT]

So they can't use the full MLE (4 yr 22mil) and the room exception (2 yr 5mil)?

[Bruno]

Don't you think Buford actually liked JC Bruno? I know you have some reservations about him, but If Buford had him as a top20 pick, he simply went to BPA route, no matter if the boy would have to stay in Europe or not.

I don't.
If saving some cap space by stashing Jean-Charles wasn't a key factor in drafting him, I don't really get that pick.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

AK47 hasn't gotten many offers yet. I think the Spurs are still front runners.

Oden may come in very cheap too.

[Shifty]

But they can still sign people to veteran minimum's once everything else is over right?

[deibero]

I don't.
If saving some cap space by stashing Jean-Charles wasn't a key factor in drafting him, I don't really get that pick.

forget about the cap, maybe they just liked him man! buford said they had him top 20 rated and he was the best available at that particular point...

[lurker23]

But they can still sign people to veteran minimum's once everything else is over right?

Yes, always (with obvious roster size limits).

[Bruno]

forget about the cap, maybe they just liked him man! buford said they had him top 20 rated and he was the best available at that particular point...

He also say that the stash part and the cap saved was a part of why they drafted him. And with tiem, I've learned given little value to what RC says to the medias.

[TheGreatYacht]

Thanks for the post. I was showing Spurs at possibly $2.3 million below cap after signing Splitter/Manu with what we now know about their deals. That would be without Neal coming back and no amnesty of Bonner.

It may be the Spurs sign Neal and go over the cap, then I guess we could have about $5 million either way. I was not aware we could get the full MLE this year but hopefully true.

As far as who we could get for $5 million as a FA, sounds like Kirlenko would be doubtful but not impossible depending on how the market plays out. As we know, there are plenty of overpriced vets out there still to be signed including numerous bigs.

The odd thing about it all to me is that I don't see us coming anywhere near our $70 million payroll from last year, I don't see how we can get that up much above $65 million. Smells like a waste of the best of Duncan's limited remaining years for 2013-14.

[Mal]

I wonder who excatly Spurs are aiming with full MLE. AK47 is one, else? Ellis if he busts with new deal ?

[mudyez]

i smell neal walking or let walk. and bonner amnestied or traded.

I don't smell it, but if so and we get AK47 that way, I'd love it, as AK and Diaw can totally make up for the "loss" of bonner as stretch4 and Patty deserves a shot as spark plug chucker in place of Neal.

I smell: Bonner and Neal stay put and we run out the same team minus Blair next season (not sure thats so bad).

[mudyez]

I wonder who excatly Spurs are aiming with full MLE. AK47 is one, else? Ellis if he busts with new deal ?

I could totally see the Spurs beeing in talks with AK47 even before giving Manu the contract...But Monte will seek a 1year contract if his FA blows so hard.

[cdcast]

They could still make two moves. Use their MLE for a free agent now and then later in the summer or at the trade deadline trade Diaw/Bonner ($8.6 mil combined).

[jesterbobman]

For resident capologists:

If the Spurs traded for a S&T Kirilenko using a trade exception, can they still use the MLE?

I think there used to be a dumb rule that allowed double dipping, but I think they've gotten rid of it.

[coyotes_geek]

i smell neal walking or let walk. and bonner amnestied or traded.

Neal walking: Probably.

Bonner getting amnestied: Incredibly unlikely now having seen what Manu's deal is.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Given what they've already announced, I think using the MLE is the best play. It allows us to bring back Neal with no concern for cap and try to trade Bonner either this summer or at the trade deadline as an expiring.

According to the salary cap faq, if we move Bonner we can take back up to 150% of his salary + $100K, which puts it up near $7M. (More if we throw in DeColo or CoJo or whoever.) Given all the teams that want to play in the free agency sweepstakes next year, there's a fair chance we can get a useful asset for that. So it's probably smarter than amnestying him anyway.

Is this the most bestest summer haul ever? No. But if we bring back everyone who played in the Finals and still have a chance to bring in two more decent assets with the MLE and with Bonner's expiring, I don't think cliff jumping is warranted unless you just like that sort of thing.

Spurs can still do a Sign and Trade and still have the Full MLE. I thought that this would be the plan. Sign and Trade for possibly Ellis (which why the Spurs kept Bonner and Restricted Neal) and offer the Full MLE to Kirilenko or to someone like Korver.

Manu Salary didn't mean that much because the Spurs had to get over the cap to get the full MLE. I think Manu would have taken less if he had to, but the 7mil figure actually worked out better for the Spurs.

[Seventyniner]

I can see a scenario, however unlikely, in which the Spurs could sign a FA for more than the MLE. It involves the Spurs and Bonner having negotiated an extension to the buyout deadline. (Though news of that would have likely come out by now)

Let's use Kirilenko for an example, and suppose that the Spurs told Bonner that his contract would become $1.2M guaranteed (instead of $1M) if he agreed to extend the deadline for two weeks, until July 14. Then the Wolves could sign-and-trade Kirilenko to the Spurs for up to ~$8.5M (cap space plus Bonner's contract), with the Spurs sending back Bonner's contract and enough cash to cover the buyout. Then the Wolves buy out Bonner and have a trade exception that they otherwise wouldn't.

Is this even possible? Yes, I'm grasping at straws here.

[Das Texan]

I don't.
If saving some cap space by stashing Jean-Charles wasn't a key factor in drafting him, I don't really get that pick.

Not wanting to clear the roster spot makes some sense however.

[coachmac87]

Spurs can still do a Sign and Trade and still have the Full MLE. I thought that this would be the plan. Sign and Trade for possibly Ellis (which why the Spurs kept Bonner and Restricted Neal) and offer the Full MLE to Kirilenko or to someone like Korver.

Manu Salary didn't mean that much because the Spurs had to get over the cap to get the full MLE. I think Manu would have taken less if he had to, but the 7mil figure actually worked out better for the Spurs.

I hope your right buddy...that's be best case scenario

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I hope your right buddy...that's be best case scenario

That's exactly what the Clippers just did with Paul's situation. Once signed, it pushed them over the cap, they traded for Reddick and still have the full MLE to sign a player.

[timvp]

MLE is $5.15M. Spurs could clear $6M in cap space by amnestying Bonner and renouncing to Neal.

When you put it like that, then the Spurs probably ARE going to just have the MLE.

Think about it: is Bonner + Neal + $5.15M free agent > $6M free agent?

For that to be true, the Spurs would have to consider Bonner + Neal as having a combined value of less than $850K.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii......

[Bruno]

When you put it like that, then the Spurs probably ARE going to just have the MLE.

Think about it: is Bonner + Neal + $5.15M free agent > $6M free agent?


Yep, it's likely even if you forgot the room exception.

A question, do you want Spurs to bring back Neal? If Yes, for what kind of contract?

[Drom John]

The Spurs haven't added anybody to the roster.
The Spurs have lost Blair and McGrady. That's two players to replace.
If you add Bonner and Neal, that's four players to be replaced.

Two spots = 1 MLE (Kirilenko?) + 1 vet minimum/rookie (Buckeye)
I could see Neal leaving replaced by another vet/rookie(the other Buckeye).
I see Bonner as a keeper worth his contract.

[ducks]

use lle on oden

[timvp]

A question, do you want Spurs to bring back Neal? If Yes, for what kind of contract?

I'm still deciding on Neal. My first reaction is to want him gone but: 1) he's really good injury insurance (especially for Manu), and 2) he looked pretty darn good last year until he started battling plantar fasciitis and whatever else he was dealing with.

So, logically, he's probably worth bringing back at some price. I haven't decided on that price, though :lol

[monkeypunk]

use lle on oden

Can't use it this year, used it on DeColo last year.

[elemento]

use lle on oden

SA used it last year on Nando ducks. They can't use it this season

[Das Texan]

Id rather Neal just go away, tbh.

[tesseractive]

Is Neal gettable for something like 2 years/$6M? Maybe with a team option for the 3rd year? I feel like that would be a pretty reasonable deal.

[cd021]

The MLE and LLE can both be used simultaneously right?

According to Hoopworld we only have a MLE.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

According to Hoopworld we only have a MLE.

And the Vet minimum which is around 1.4mil I believe.

[CGD]

So if its only the MLE then it's either:

one semi-rockstar like AK47 (still not sure his market value); or
split it on Something like Dorrel Wright and Oden?

[cd021]

I'm still deciding on Neal. My first reaction is to want him gone but: 1) he's really good injury insurance (especially for Manu), and 2) he looked pretty darn good last year until he started battling plantar fasciitis and whatever else he was dealing with.

So, logically, he's probably worth bringing back at some price. I haven't decided on that price, though :lol

How would his return affect De Colo and Josephs place in your opinion? It would hint that Joseph may not be in the Spurs plans long term. If Neal eats minutes at backup PG or 2 guard, with De Colo losing out at both spots. I mean, most if 1st rounders get consistent work by their 3rd season if not before. Both Hill and Blair (2nd rounder, I know) were entrenched in the rotation by then.

I would think that the Spurs would reach some type of verbal if possible before Sundays deadline and then renounce Neal's rights. If not work out a 3 year $10 million dollar deal.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

A Neal not battling his health issues could be pretty good again. Not a big fan of him but it's far from unlikely.

A list of the most realistic MLE targets would be interesting.

[cd021]

And the Vet minimum which is around 1.4mil I believe.

Thats not really an exception, But true up until the $75 million dollar tax apron (if we use our MLE we cannot go over that price no matter what). Of course there is constraints, namely roster spots. Blair and McGrady are the only players that seem gone at the moment. I also have suspicion that T-Mac may return if we don't land our targets. Neal may also be gone and a minimal chance Bonner is cast out with the Amnesty.

[cd021]

And the Vet minimum which is around 1.4mil I believe.

Thats not really an exception, But true up until the $75 million dollar tax apron (if we use our MLE we cannot go over that price no matter what). Of course there is constraints, namely roster spots. Blair and McGrady are the only players that seem gone at the moment. I also have suspicion that T-Mac may return if we don't land our targets. Neal may also be gone and a minimal chance Bonner is cast out with the Amnesty.

[sexinthatsx]

I think the Spurs did the best situation available. Because they were able to sign Tiago and Manu back, it gives less room for any of the free agents to demand more money to play for a contending team. Had the Spurs tried to court free agents with the cap room they had prior to signing Tiago and Manu, then the free agents would have demanded a ridiculous contract at a ridiculously long length. However, now that Spurs have everybody locked up and have the MLE left, it almost limits the free agency market down to those who are serious about contending and playing for the Spurs.

Down the line, I can see AK-47 joining the Spurs or a really good rotational player; I have suspicion to think that the Spurs are trying to prolong the FA search to see how Deshaun Thomas pans out in Vegas Summer League before making any big moves.

[spursince#99]

If we only have the MLE De Colo gotta go before the season starts.

[coyotes_geek]

Is Neal gettable for something like 2 years/$6M? Maybe with a team option for the 3rd year? I feel like that would be a pretty reasonable deal.

I doubt it. Some crap team who has a hard time attracting free agents will get desperate for a shooter and throw something like a 3yr/$12 mil deal his way.

[look_at_g_shred]

When does Free Agency period end?

[Mel_13]

When does Free Agency period end?

Last day of the regular season.

[Solid D]

If Ray Allen had missed, would people be hoping the Spurs sign Gary Neal?

[TheGoldStandard]

If Ray Allen had missed, would people be hoping the Spurs sign Gary Neal?

Nope, probably still be saying that he should walk. He gets a lot of flack for his hero ball moments and lack of defense.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I doubt it. Some crap team who has a hard time attracting free agents will get desperate for a shooter and throw something like a 3yr/$12 mil deal his way.

That team being the Milwaukee Bucks. They have no shooters on their team at this point apart from Ilyasova and Jennings (RFA). They lost Reddick, Dunleavy to free agency and don't look like they are resigning Ellis. I could easily seeing the Spurs trade Neal/Bonner and 1st to the Bucks for Ellis if the Spurs are truely looking to add another scorer/ball handler to this team. Ellis was the first player the Spurs contacted when free agency started. It didn't say interest or some BS like that.

[rAm]

If Ray Allen had missed, would people be hoping the Spurs sign Gary Neal?

So many things would be different...

[coyotes_geek]

That team being the Milwaukee Bucks. They have no shooters on their team at this point apart from Ilyasova and Jennings (RFA). They lost Reddick, Dunleavy to free agency and don't look like they are resigning Ellis. I could easily seeing the Spurs trade Neal/Bonner and 1st to the Bucks for Ellis if the Spurs are truely looking to add another scorer/ball handler to this team. Ellis was the first player the Spurs contacted when free agency started. It didn't say interest or some BS like that.

I was thinking the Raptors, but the Bucks are a good call too.

All for the S&T scenario if the Spurs would be able to pull it off. Land Ellis and still have an MLE to go use on someone.

[Canibspur]

Last day of the regular season.

I lol'd

[Tuddy]

Gotta keep neal. Need his scoring.

[tesseractive]

That team being the Milwaukee Bucks. They have no shooters on their team at this point apart from Ilyasova and Jennings (RFA). They lost Reddick, Dunleavy to free agency and don't look like they are resigning Ellis. I could easily seeing the Spurs trade Neal/Bonner and 1st to the Bucks for Ellis if the Spurs are truely looking to add another scorer/ball handler to this team. Ellis was the first player the Spurs contacted when free agency started. It didn't say interest or some BS like that.
Bonner would be a pretty good complement to Larry Sanders, and yeah, Neal would be a good fit off the bench, too. That would be an awesome deal if we could pull it off.

[Mel_13]

That team being the Milwaukee Bucks. They have no shooters on their team at this point apart from Ilyasova and Jennings (RFA). They lost Reddick, Dunleavy to free agency and don't look like they are resigning Ellis. I could easily seeing the Spurs trade Neal/Bonner and 1st to the Bucks for Ellis if the Spurs are truely looking to add another scorer/ball handler to this team. Ellis was the first player the Spurs contacted when free agency started. It didn't say interest or some BS like that.

Good take.

The Bucks are a good trade partner for the team's "excess" assets.

[Vic Petro]

Ellis / Kirilenko / Oden replacing Neal / Bonner / Blair

:hat

[coyotes_geek]

Speaking of the Bucks, anyone feeling a need to try to make themselves feel a little better about Splitter's deal can go look at Drew Gooden and the 2yrs/$13+ mil he's got left on his contract there. HTH.

[spursfan4ever]

I'm wondering if they is anyway that CIA Pop and RC go to Andre (Iggy) and persuade him to come over for the MLE alto try and win it all next year and tell him he is our missing piece to win the championship use the the 14-15 season when more money opens up to give him a good payday. He can play the 3 behind Kl, the 2 to give DG competition and the 5 with timmy. I know this idea is way out in left field and possibly impossible but RC and Pop may try to pull a rabbit out of a hat and surprise us being Timmy's last few years. Just a thought.

[palangi]

Cap space + room exception.
i'm thinking ommri casspi

[coyotes_geek]

I'm wondering if they is anyway that CIA Pop and RC go to Andre (Iggy) and persuade him to come over for the MLE alto try and win it all next year and tell him he is our missing piece to win the championship use the the 14-15 season when more money opens up to give him a good payday. He can play the 3 behind Kl, the 2 to give DG competition and the 5 with timmy. I know this idea is way out in left field and possibly impossible but RC and Pop may try to pull a rabbit out of a hat and surprise us being Timmy's last few years. Just a thought.

Yes, it's impossible. These are Iguodala's prime earning years. He's not going to leave $30-$40 million on the table to come play for our MLE.

[palangi]

Ellis / Kirilenko / Oden replacing Neal / Bonner / Blair

:hat
baynes is replacing blair

[Mel_13]

I'm wondering if they is anyway that CIA Pop and RC go to Andre (Iggy) and persuade him to come over for the MLE alto try and win it all next year and tell him he is our missing piece to win the championship use the the 14-15 season when more money opens up to give him a good payday. He can play the 3 behind Kl, the 2 to give DG competition and the 5 with timmy. I know this idea is way out in left field and possibly impossible but RC and Pop may try to pull a rabbit out of a hat and surprise us being Timmy's last few years. Just a thought.

He opted out of 16M for this season. He's not signing a 4yr/22M contract.

[Sean Cagney]

GOD
MLE is $5.15M. Spurs could clear $6M in cap space by amnestying Bonner and renouncing to Neal.

GOD IT WILL NOT HAPPEN BUT GET RID OF THOSE TWO fools! I wish, they are about useless IMO. Either or it won't happen.

[BatManu20]

AK47
Barnes
D. Wright

I think those are their top 3 guys at this point. Probably can't afford AK now, so if I had to choose one of the others I'd pick Wright, although I think he ends up with OKC. They're courting him pretty hard from reports. Barnes met with the Lakers today, so he might not be an option either as he loves the West Coast. Who knows what this team has in mind tbh. It might end up being Casspi (which would be terrible).

[Sean Cagney]

If Ray Allen had missed, would people be hoping the Spurs sign Gary Neal?

NO! I never was a fan of him. He is one every once in a while, his shot selection is flat out horrible and he can't drive or run the PG at all like Pop tries. He is not good.

[Staplepuffs27]

Even if Ray Allen missed, I'm not sure the Spurs were in a good position to get a rebound.

[Baseline]

I want AK47 or Monta. But what I don't understand is if we contacted Monta, why did we pay Manu that crazy money for two years? I don't understand it unless Tim Duncan personally requested that Manu be resigned. Otherwise, I'd love to have Matt Barnes. Barnes is a way better rebounder than Bonner will ever be, even though Barnes is a 3 and skinny - the guy's tough as balls. Don't forget - without Jack, we have nobody with an edge to him. And think about how much better a defender Barnes is that Neal. To me, we could let both Bonner and Neal go if we get Barnes and any random big who can rebound (which ain't Bonner). Bonner and Neal are like middle relief pitchers who eat up innings in blowout games. Bonner disappeared in the playoffs once again. As for Neal, that one big game he had will price him out of our market. So I think Neal is gone. Barnes is a 3, but he could easily take Neal's minutes.

[Baseline]

Even if Ray Allen missed, I'm not sure the Spurs were in a good position to get a rebound. Right. Because Pop benched our Hall of Fame big man. And we all had to watch a bunch of undersized guys try to grab the most important rebound of the season. Instead, it was grabbed by Chris Bosh, the worst rebounding big man in the history of the NBA. Thank you, Pop.

[spurraider21]

I'm still deciding on Neal. My first reaction is to want him gone but: 1) he's really good injury insurance (especially for Manu), and 2) he looked pretty darn good last year until he started battling plantar fasciitis and whatever else he was dealing with.

So, logically, he's probably worth bringing back at some price. I haven't decided on that price, though :lol

considering the spurs are paying about 1 million more than what ST thinks is reasonable for their free agents, you better be lenient with that figure

[look_at_g_shred]

Last day of the regular season.
?

[outmap]

The MLE and LLE can both be used simultaneously right?

AFAIK yes. 5.15M MLE and 2.25M LLE right?

[spurraider21]

?

free agency doesn't "end"

the craze just dies down when rosters get set and all the good players are gone. like we did with tmac, you can sign players midseason if u want. the only end is when the season ends and the dry period we are going through now

[Chinook]

Trade Neal to the Bucks for one of their assets. I'd prefer someone like Henson, Sanders or Ilyasova, they're probably pipe dreams. But I'd be willing to take Mbah a Moute. I've been a fan of his defensive potential, even though he's a combo-forward in the worst sense possible. He's one of the most versatile defenders in the NBA (perhaps the only other player who can guard all five positions besides James). He's a very inconsistent (read:bad) three-point shooter, and he only really scores off garbage buckets.

If the Spurs don't want Mbah a Moute, they could still try for Ilyasova (after their recent draft pick, it wouldn't surprise me to see Ersan on the move) by adding Bonner and perhaps another guard or pick to the deal. That would be very much worth it to me, as Ilyasova is a 16/10 per 36 player with a sweet shot. He's somewhat overpaid, but he could come in and start next to Duncan and hold down the four spot for a long time. The Spurs could also go for smaller players like Gustavo Ayon or a pick. The Bucks would probably give up something, though. They just don't seem like a very competent franchise.

[Baam]

^ Well the only way to get better is a trade now clearly but I don't see it, and Gary Neal for Sanders let's not joke around...

[Chinook]

^ Well the only way to get better is a trade now clearly but I don't see it, and Gary Neal for Sanders let's not joke around...

I didn't even suggest that. I said that would be great, but I'd take a player like Mbah a Moute, since Neal's not valuable enough to get their bigs. Ilyasova may be their best player, but he's also the highest paid right now. I think he could be on the block for the right pieces.

[Baam]

I didn't even suggest that. I said that would be great, but I'd take a player like Mbah a Moute, since Neal's not valuable enough to get their bigs. Ilyasova may be their best player, but he's also the highest paid right now. I think he could be on the block for the right pieces.

Yep I don't disagree, I think targeting the Bucks is pretty smart given their previous questionable moves.

[Baam]

For the record there was a rumor a while ago that the Bucks wanted to trade Ilysova for the third pick (with Wall asking for a stretch 4 and all). Just seems a out of our reach.

We can give a 2013 first and stretch 4 back but that doesn't seem quite enough...

Also I suggested something like that a while ago but can't we just do Bonner for Singleton to save cap space? Singleton is gonna lose his playing time with the arrival of Otto Porter and we have an opening at the backup 3.

Not sure that makes enough of a difference to get anyone of worth...