Josh Smith to the Pistons

[djohn2oo8]

Adrian Wojnarowski (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) @WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/353591401151332353)
Y! Sources: Free agent forward Josh Smith agrees to a four year, $56 million with the Detroit Pistons. tinyurl.com/kmmwsnt (http://t.co/Ro6zbwhulS)



Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz2YIJGFbFj

[weebo]

dat ass...

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Joe Dumars

[Pelicans78]

Wow, Dumars continues to suck.

[timtonymanu]

Way too much for an overrated player.

[djohn2oo8]

Thanking the basketball gods Morey didn't pay that fucker 14 mil a year

[Pelicans78]

He's excellent defensively and horrible offensively.

[JamStone]

I'm good with it. I know Josh Smith has his flaws and $14M per is a lot under the new CBA, but he does upgrade the overall talent of the team.

Pistons have had a hard time attracting big name free agents, so it's nice to see them able to get a good talent even though he's isn't a franchise superstar.

He'll get a chance to play a lot of SF, which will be both good and bad, and some PF against small ball line-ups. He does make the Pistons frontcourt pretty big and athletic when they put him in with Monroe and Drummond.

Considering I was starting to believe the Pistons weren't going to add anyone significant and would end up having to throw some money at some no-name free agents who wouldn't be worth their salaries, I'm cool with throwing money at a player who won't be worth the money who at least has some proven talent. Pistons aren't a destination for players like LeBron or CP3. Pistons fans will just have to hope the excitement of athletes like Josh Smith and Andre Drummond will at least make the Pistons watchable now. They've been so shitty to watch the past several years.

[TIMMYtoZO]

:lol Pistons

[Katherine Robinson]

Detroit will be irrelevant for a very very long time, it befits the current image of the city.

[JamStone]

The new CBA forces teams to spend money. The alternative would have been something like one or two year deals for guys like Wesley Johnson for $5M per and Marreesse Speights for $4M per just to meet the cap floor, and then in a year or two, they have cap space again they can't fill with anyone good because they won't want to come to Detroit.

Watch by the end of free agency, there will be teams with too much cap space throwing silly one or two year contracts at players worth half of what they're getting.

[Clipper Nation]

So will the Pistons trade Monroe now? DeAndre could be a nice backup center and we all know how much Dumars loves overpaid contracts :downspin:

[Koolaid_Man]

Thanking the basketball gods Morey didn't pay that fucker 14 mil a year

:lmao you do realize there's no material difference between him and Dwight don't you....ha ha Rox fan is pure comedy gold

[djohn2oo8]

:lmao you do realize there's no material difference between him and Dwight don't you....ha ha Rox fan is pure comedy gold
Does Dwight chuck three's?

[JamStone]

So will the Pistons trade Monroe now? DeAndre could be a nice backup center and we all know how much Dumars loves overpaid contracts :downspin:

Reports during negotiations were that the Pistons will play Smith at SF. Last year after they traded Tayshaun Prince, they started Kyle Singler at SF. The team won't be able to shoot, but they'll rebound well.

[Pelicans78]

:lmao you do realize there's no material difference between him and Dwight don't you....ha ha Rox fan is pure comedy gold

Dwight isn't nearly as bad as Smith offensively. Smith takes too many horrible shots every game and is a bad FT shooter. Howard doesn't take bad shots. That's the biggest difference.

[Kai]

tbh it's better news than

http://media.mlive.com/pistons_impact/photo/10363887-large.jpg

[da_suns_fan]

Worst signing of the off-season (thus far).

[Killakobe81]

Thanking the basketball gods Morey didn't pay that fucker 14 mil a year

Yep. Morey starting to win me over. Defensively he would of been a great fit, on offense a trainwreck next to Dwight.

[da_suns_fan]

:lmao you do realize there's no material difference between him and Dwight don't you....ha ha Rox fan is pure comedy gold

Youre either salty or completely clueless:

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=243&player_ids%5B%5D=6

Howard is a vastly superior rebounder and shot blocker. His FG%, TS% and PPS blow Smith away. The only thing that is really comparable is that they are both BAD free throw shooters and both turn it over quite a bit.

[jeebus]

I know everyone in the league overpays for big men but he's not even that. Meh. Ain't my team.

[Killakobe81]

I'm good with it. I know Josh Smith has his flaws and $14M per is a lot under the new CBA, but he does upgrade the overall talent of the team.

Pistons have had a hard time attracting big name free agents, so it's nice to see them able to get a good talent even though he's isn't a franchise superstar.

He'll get a chance to play a lot of SF, which will be both good and bad, and some PF against small ball line-ups. He does make the Pistons frontcourt pretty big and athletic when they put him in with Monroe and Drummond.

Considering I was starting to believe the Pistons weren't going to add anyone significant and would end up having to throw some money at some no-name free agents who wouldn't be worth their salaries, I'm cool with throwing money at a player who won't be worth the money who at least has some proven talent. Pistons aren't a destination for players like LeBron or CP3. Pistons fans will just have to hope the excitement of athletes like Josh Smith and Andre Drummond will at least make the Pistons watchable now. They've been so shitty to watch the past several years.

Some great points, Jam. But still 14 million?! That is only 5 mill less than LeBron

[HarlemHeat37]

I made a thread a few months ago asking why Joe Dumars still has a job..any Pistons fans want to answer, tbh?..Jam?..

[djohn2oo8]

I made a thread a few months ago asking why Joe Dumars still has a job..any Pistons fans want to answer, tbh?..Jam?..
:lol

[Indazone]

So much for trading Asik and Lin

[djohn2oo8]

So much for trading Asik and Lin

lol Idiot. One of them is getting traded.

[JamStone]

Worst signing of the off-season (thus far).

For the money, not a good signing at all. But consider the situation. Pistons have been a shitty team for several years now. They can't get any quality free agents to come to Detroit. They couldn't even get a hometown kid who grew up loving the Pistons in Chris Webber to come to Detroit for max money back in 2003. Of course they're going to overpay for whoever they get. Cap floor will probably be around $53-54 million. That means the Pistons had to spend at least $17 million this summer on someone, anyone just to meet the cap floor. Were they going to get Dwight Howard or Chris Paul? Of course not. They can't just sit on the money like teams would before the last CBA. They have to spend it. Better to just throw out one year deals at no name FAs and then go at it again next summer or the following summer after that? Perhaps. But same shit will happen. None of the big name free agents will sign in Detroit and they just stay the same.

I have no delusions that Josh Smith will somehow turn the franchise around. Of course he won't. He's overrated and has some serious flaws in his game. But he's better than Kyle Singler. And he's probably the best talent a team and city like Detroit would be able to get. LeBron ain't coming next year. So, this is what happens. They overpay for a horribly flawed and overrated talent. But he is a talent, especially compared to the rest of the Pistons roster. That's why I'm good with it.

[AchillesHeel]

I know they're overpaying for an average offensive talent that takes way too many shots but it's a nice piece defensively.

[Indazone]

lol Idiot. One of them is getting traded.

lol of the two only Asik would interest other teams. Even then it's unlikely other teams will want to take on the poison pill contracts of either player. Sides, it'll be interesting to see McHale put Asik and Howard out there together as an experiment. Even as a backup, Howard/Asik make us a really strong defensive team.

Morey already said he was happy standing pat.

[JamStone]

I made a thread a few months ago asking why Joe Dumars still has a job..any Pistons fans want to answer, tbh?..Jam?..

On the Pistons messageboard, I said he should have been replaced when the team was sold to a new owner. The team needed a new voice and new direction.

The new owner, Tom Gores, is a newbie sports owner. Doesn't have any experience in sports franchise ownership. He kept Dumars on to help with his transition, and appears not to want to be too hasty to replace him just yet. Some of the problems over the past 3-4 years was that Dumars was handcuffed in making deals when the previous owner passed away and his wife didn't allow him to add significant salaries to the payroll. That does not absolve him for the many mistakes he made. But that is at least part of the reason for what's gone wrong.

I already made my opinion about the signing. I think it's fine. I actually like it because I know the Pistons won't be able to land a real franchise superstar in free agency and Josh Smith does upgrade the talent of the roster. Is it ideal? Nope. Would I rather have LeBron James and Chris Paul? Yup. But considering how shitty the team has been for going on 5-6 years now, I wanted to see them add a proven talent. They did. Flawed, overrated, and overpaid. But they added proven talent. It's because of that and how bad the team has been and knowing how hard it has been to attract players to come to Detroit that I'm more than good with the signing. I know the contract is a bad deal. I'm good with it.

[JamStone]

lol of the two only Asik would interest other teams. Even then it's unlikely other teams will want to take on the poison pill contracts of either player. Sides, it'll be interesting to see McHale put Asik and Howard out there together as an experiment. Even as a backup, Howard/Asik make us a really strong defensive team.

Morey already said he was happy standing pat.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but from my understanding, the poison pill only affected the Bulls if they matched the offer. I thought as soon as the Rockets got him, they would be able to pay Asik $8M per instead of the 5/5/15 structure the Bulls would have had to pay. I think if he's traded, it's still 8/8/8. That's what I thought. But again, I'm not sure.

[djohn2oo8]

lol of the two only Asik would interest other teams. Even then it's unlikely other teams will want to take on the poison pill contracts of either player. Sides, it'll be interesting to see McHale put Asik and Howard out there together as an experiment. Even as a backup, Howard/Asik make us a really strong defensive team.

Morey already said he was happy standing pat.
You believe everything he says? It's his job not to give away his plans. He does that very well. And Asik is not going to be a backup. Sorry.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree, I actually don't mind the signing, tbh..

I hate Josh Smith's game, but like you said, the Pistons aren't going to get any real franchise players for a while..

The Pistons with a Monroe-Smith-Drummond frontcourt will have a good shot at the playoffs, and although they'll never peak past the 2nd round, it could be an exciting few years for a franchise that desperately needs it, tbh..

My Dumars comment wasn't based on this signing, it's based on his performance since 2007 or so..

[JamStone]

Some great points, Jam. But still 14 million?! That is only 5 mill less than LeBron

Not a good deal. I already acknowledged that. But they had to overpay to get him. Or they would have thrown ridiculous money at some other free agents even less worth what they ended up getting.

Other guys in the $14M range include Eric Gordon, Andrew Bogut. It's a bad contract for the money, but it isn't exactly Rashard Lewis or Gilbert Arenas or Joe Johnson bad.

[scroteface]

So now they'll have a C playing at PF and a PF playing at SF..doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.

[Brazil]

I'm with JamStone I think it's a good signing for the pistons

[JamStone]

I agree, I actually don't mind the signing, tbh..

I hate Josh Smith's game, but like you said, the Pistons aren't going to get any real franchise players for a while..

The Pistons with a Monroe-Smith-Drummond frontcourt will have a good shot at the playoffs, and although they'll never peak past the 2nd round, it could be an exciting few years for a franchise that desperately needs it, tbh..

My Dumars comment wasn't based on this signing, it's based on his performance since 2007 or so..

He's been mediocre to really bad since 2006 imo. Overconfident in his fortune, filled with hubris in his basketball opinion. Obnoxiously thought that a once in a lifetime type of championship team made up of no superstars was something that could be duplicated. Thought he could rebuild and maintain elite level of play at the same time instead of stripping everything down and starting over from scratch. He made mistakes, some huge mistakes. And the ownership instability didn't affect the Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva signings because I'm pretty sure Bill Davidson hadn't passed away yet when they were signed.

He knows it's hard for Detroit to get a superstar in free agency or trade. But he also doesn't believe in tanking so the Pistons have been stuck in the middle lottery for the past 4-5 years. They actually got lucky in some of their picks. But building through the draft is where teams need to start unless they are the Lakers, Knicks, and now Miami Heat. That's just how it is. But that's a problem for the other 26 GMs too. And you still have to get lucky in the draft. How would Presti be perceived without the Durant pick first. Where are Pop and Buford without Duncan? Fortune may favor the bold, but fortune does not fall in the laps of every GM.

And that is the paradigm with Joe Dumars. He was maybe the only GM to be able to build a championship team and team that had elite sustained success for about 6 years without the luck of ping pong balls. With Shaq or LeBron wearing his team's jersey. And that's why Dumars falsely thought he could continue doing things his way and things would work out. Things is, ultimate success still lies squarely with the Shaqs and Duncans and LeBrons. That's how you win. If you are fortunate enough to land one in the draft, you're golden. Otherwise, you better hope you're the GM of the Lakers, Knicks (and even they haven't been able to do shit even with being a free agent destination), or now the Heat. Or you hope one of your ex teammates running another team will gift you a KG. That's how you have to work if you're an NBA GM.

[JamStone]

So now they'll have a C playing at PF and a PF playing at SF..doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.

They're not a championship team. They're not even a conference contending team.

They're better than they were the last 4 years. With the Pistons, it has to be baby steps because they can't hit homeruns unless they luck their way to a top pick in the draft, and they're just good enough to always be in the 7-10 range in the draft.

[spurraider21]

Smh. Stupid moves like this, then teams bitch about being in a non competitive market. Pistons fucking themselves over, per par.

:lol Charlie V got a 40 million dollar contract

[scroteface]

They're not a championship team. They're not even a conference contending team.

They're better than they were the last 4 years. With the Pistons, it has to be baby steps because they can't hit homeruns unless they luck their way to a top pick in the draft, and they're just good enough to always be in the 7-10 range in the draft.

yeah but whenever you do stupid shit to limit yourselves long term you can only take so many baby steps before you hit a 14 million dollar wall and can't move any further forward. not too many championship teams shoot themselves in the foot with terrible contracts, makes it hard to sign those complementary pieces that put teams over the top once you're already maxed out.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Wasn't Phil Jackson a consultant for them this off season? I see Phil trolling the Pistons for making him crawl on all 4 in 2004. :lol

[Rip-Hamilton32]

Didn't Tyreke get 11 million a year? Paying that kind of money for a shooting guard that can't shoot. I like the signing I'd expect Monroe to get traded now however

[JamStone]

yeah but whenever you do stupid shit to limit yourselves long term you can only take so many baby steps before you hit a 14 million dollar wall and can't move any further forward. not too many championship teams shoot themselves in the foot with terrible contracts, makes it hard to sign those complementary pieces that put teams over the top once you're already maxed out.

Even if you include Josh Smith's salary, next summer the Pistons payroll will be around $33-35 million. They have two big contracts expiring and most of the rest of the roster are still on their rookie contracts. Monroe will be up for his qualifying offer and looking for an extension, but the Pistons could conceivably still be looking at about $15-25 million in cap space (depending if they give Monroe an extension and for how much).

It's not about having one or sometimes even two bad contracts. It's when you have a bunch of bad contracts of players that aren't good that your cap flexibility gets limited and restricted And I've made several posts on this already, but the new CBA forces teams to spend money every year. Every single NBA team will have to have a payroll of 90% of the salary cap, so if the cap is at around $59-60M, probably $53-54M. That's every team. It's mandatory. Teams can't sit on cap space anymore. But the CBA also helped protect owners and teams from really stupid moves. Maximum contracts have been reduced. No more 6-7 year deals. So even bad deals are usually only 4 years long, and possibly become assets as expiring contracts after only 3 years. So even though the CBA makes even small market teams to spend more, it also has given some protection against stupid moves.

And it's not like Josh Smith is going to be an unused $14 million at the end of the bench like Rashard Lewis or Gilbert Arenas towards the end of their deals. Josh Smith may be overpaid, but he'll play and he'll produce.

As for championship aspirations, I have absolutely none based on this move. I'm not kidding myself. I know what the move is and what to expect from it.

[JMarkJohns]

Didn't Tyreke get 11 million a year? Paying that kind of money for a shooting guard that can't shoot. I like the signing I'd expect Monroe to get traded now however

Holy shit? Really?

What do you think the market for him is?

Don't get hung up on names, but would the Morris twins plus 1sts sound close?

I've always heralded Monroe cerebral approach to the game, and think his potential is very good. Maybe not Suns 2014 1st good, but they own Minny's, Lakers picks in 2014-15, plus their own 2015. If made a three-team where Gortat is shipped out, maybe an additional 1st or better 1st can be added?

[Killakobe81]

Not a good deal. I already acknowledged that. But they had to overpay to get him. Or they would have thrown ridiculous money at some other free agents even less worth what they ended up getting.

Other guys in the $14M range include Eric Gordon, Andrew Bogut. It's a bad contract for the money, but it isn't exactly Rashard Lewis or Gilbert Arenas or Joe Johnson bad.

True dat ...

[JamStone]

Holy shit? Really?

What do you think the market for him is?

Don't get hung up on names, but would the Morris twins plus 1sts sound close?

I've always heralded Monroe cerebral approach to the game, and think his potential is very good. Maybe not Suns 2014 1st good, but they own Minny's, Lakers picks in 2014-15, plus their own 2015. If made a three-team where Gortat is shipped out, maybe an additional 1st or better 1st can be added?

Everything I've heard and read suggests that Josh Smith will primarily play SF and then spot some minutes at PF. Dumars loves Monroe. I don't expect him to be on the trade block, at least not this summer. If during the season, it's proven that Josh Smith can only play PF, things may change. But I highly doubt Monroe is available right now.

[JMarkJohns]

That's what I figure. Damn...

[da_suns_fan]

For the money, not a good signing at all. But consider the situation. Pistons have been a shitty team for several years now. They can't get any quality free agents to come to Detroit. They couldn't even get a hometown kid who grew up loving the Pistons in Chris Webber to come to Detroit for max money back in 2003. Of course they're going to overpay for whoever they get. Cap floor will probably be around $53-54 million. That means the Pistons had to spend at least $17 million this summer on someone, anyone just to meet the cap floor. Were they going to get Dwight Howard or Chris Paul? Of course not. They can't just sit on the money like teams would before the last CBA. They have to spend it. Better to just throw out one year deals at no name FAs and then go at it again next summer or the following summer after that? Perhaps. But same shit will happen. None of the big name free agents will sign in Detroit and they just stay the same.

I have no delusions that Josh Smith will somehow turn the franchise around. Of course he won't. He's overrated and has some serious flaws in his game. But he's better than Kyle Singler. And he's probably the best talent a team and city like Detroit would be able to get. LeBron ain't coming next year. So, this is what happens. They overpay for a horribly flawed and overrated talent. But he is a talent, especially compared to the rest of the Pistons roster. That's why I'm good with it.


Pelicans got Tyreke Evans who is a MUCH better player than Josh Smith for less money. Im pretty sure Evans would have gone to the highest bidder.

[da_suns_fan]

And it's not like Josh Smith is going to be an unused $14 million at the end of the bench like Rashard Lewis or Gilbert Arenas towards the end of their deals. Josh Smith may be overpaid, but he'll play and he'll produce.



But he hasnt "Produced" anything in a LONG time. He is BELOW AVERAGE for PF in 2 pt shooting, 3 point shooting, TS%, PPS etc. Hes is exactly average (among PFs) for rebounding. He blocks better than most PFs, but not by much. He's likely to get you one more block per game than the average PF. He is average at getting to the free throw line but well below average at making them.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/6-josh-smith

So if hes so average (or worse) in so many categories, why is he getting paid FOURTEEN MILLION DOLLARS? What does he do that other PFs dont?

[Rogue]

Josh is a good #2 or #3 option on a playoff team but he's not the right one to be the #1 of a team, even a scrub team. his defense, rebounding and shot blocking would be precious for a title contender, and be very useful in a dogfight that every championship winner has to get through when things get serious in game 6 or 7 or a series. It's a waste of talent and money to play him on a non-playoff team imho.

[Juggity]

I'm interested to see what he can do with Monroe and Drummond next to him. On paper, it looks like it could work. Smith is overrated, of course, but he's still a pretty solid defensive presence.

[Rogue]

Tbh it's really hard to tell who's a worse manager, Dumars or Melanie Sloan (my goddess's manager). Both seem to know a lot about their professions but they're more like living books. Might be good assistants next to the real managers but would never be good managers themselves.

[Mori Chu]

I actually like the Smith signing for Detroit. The Pistons need to spend money and Smith is a good player. He chucks a little too much, but he is a great defender and rebounder and can be good on offense if he limits the outside shooting. He is a step up from their existing garbage roster and the contract is not completely insane. They could have done a lot worse.

[TDMVPDPOY]

franchise players get paid +15m...

smith ie neither...

[Raven]

good signing imho, considering who they drafted and considering they have knight at pg, the fit seems good. Add a lot of rebounding and shot blocking to a shooting backcourt, seems ok to me as an idea. They will a lot of problems with ballhandling though.

[jag]

It's not the popular opinion, but I like the signing for Detroit.

From a money standpoint, what's the alternative? Should they make a "smart" move and continue making deals to free up cap space? They have money to spend, why sit on it if they arent planning to tank? At the very least, they got a known quantity in Smith.

From a x's and o's standpoint, their size will instantly make them a unique matchup in the East. At SF Josh Smith is free to defend LeBron, Paul George, etc. It doesn't make them a legit contender, but it allows them to compete.

They've been so shitty for years now. If nothing else, this move shows the fans that the front office is trying to win games.

[DPG21920]

I do take Jam's opinion on DET with a grain of salt. He's really a Laker fan IMO (which means a Kobe fan) and he even defended the Ben Gordon/Charlie V signings too when I argued with him about that.

[JamStone]

Interesting take. I have never hidden or denied the fact that I like the Lakers or Kobe, so not sure why you even bring that up. But if it's between the Pistons and the Lakers, I'm always and will always be a Pistons fan first. The last few years, it's been pretty easy to focus on the Lakers since the Pistons have been so bad.

I have no recollection of our conversation about the Gordon/Charlie signings, so I'd be interested as to what I said. I am hesitant to believe I would have defended the Ben Gordon signing because I remember specifically that I posted I hated it on the pistons messageboards. I don't remember what I said on here. The only way I would have defended it is by saying that it would make some sense if they were able to also trade Rip Hamilton. But at the time, I did not like the Gordon signing. I have no idea why I defended it.

However, to this day, I don't think the Charlie Villanueva signing was bad in theory and context. They signed him to the equivalent of a little more than the MLE. He made about $7.5M per year over the life of the contract. Charlie is horrible. And he's overpaid. But a contract that is worth a little more than the MLE is not a back-breaking contract, and that summer they lost Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess, and only had Kwame Brown and Jason Maxiell at the power positions. They needed to fill the frontcourt with some scoring. I'm not saying it was a great move or Charlie was worth that contract. But I have less of a problem with that signing than with the Gordon signing.

[Thread]

GIGO

[MeloHype]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlXMidQCMAAxdlH.jpg