Danny Green shooting jumpers off the dribble....

[coachmac87]

As of now he sucks at it....

But CHINOOK insist he can...

Pigs can fly...

[monkeypunk]

If Bonner can do it late in his career, why not Danny?

[Baam]

He can, kind of, but when you compare him to someone who really can pumpfake and shoot or drive like Neal there's a huge gap in their arsenal/fluidity...

[Chinook]

Already threads on this, Mac.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216608&highlight=green+subtle

Try searching first next time.

[coachmac87]

He can, kind of, but when you compare him to someone who really can pumpfake and shoot or drive like Neal there's a huge gap in their arsenal/fluidity...

Bingo! Green was shut down once Miami ran him off the 3pt line..he has no confidence putting the ball on the floor.

I recall him shooting one of the worst airballs I've seen this year on a pull up mid range j....

[TheGoldStandard]

He really needs to work on finishing at the rim. Hate seeing him blow layup after layup more.

[Rogue]

He can basically do nothing, not a single thing outside of shooting 3's. Dude sucks at shooting off the dribble but it doesn't mean he can't shoot, that's because he can't dribble...

[benefactor]

u mad?

[Lerojo]

TP needs to teach him how to land floaters and finish near the rim too.

[Chinook]

There's a difference between being able to get one's own shot and for one to shoot off the dribble. Shooting off the dribble is literally a different skill than being able to dribble in traffic, which is what most people in here are concatinating with shooting off the dribble.

Green can't dribble well, so he can't get his own shot against even mediocre defense. But he can shoot off the dribble, which allows him to run the pick-and-roll and hit a shot off the dribble if his man goes under the screen.

[apalisoc_9]

Green shooting jumpers off the dribble would be very important going into the playoffs next year. He's never going to be as good as Neal, Leoanrd, Nando etc..But you only need a couple of clean dribbles for a mid range J. I think dribbling is one of those skills that if you ignored it when you were younger, it's going to bite you in the ass because it's the toughest to fix for some it almost impossible. But He doesnt need go in traffic and dribble. He just needs a couple of good dribbles for a good pull up jumper which can be fixed in the summer league. He does that, defenders would think twice before harassing him in the three point line.

[coachmac87]

u mad?

I know you are.... but what am I?

[benefactor]

:lol

[Rogue]

Dude is a decent spot-up shooter, and it's probably a good thing for the spurs that he can't basically do anything else on the court in the sense that he would be asking for twice the money he currently gets paid if he could shoot off the dribble as efficiently and consistently as he does as a spot-up shooter imho. I'd take a self-propelled artillery over a WWI cannon anyday of the week, but that would be too expensive for the Spurs.

[coachmac87]

There's a difference between being able to get one's own shot and for one to shoot off the dribble. Shooting off the dribble is literally a different skill than being able to dribble in traffic, which is what most people in here are concatinating with shooting off the dribble.

Green can't dribble well, so he can't get his own shot against even mediocre defense. But he can shoot off the dribble, which allows him to run the pick-and-roll and hit a shot off the dribble if his man goes under the screen.


I'm talking about a pump fake and two dribble midrange pull up....that's not in his game..

Not many players on the Spurs can shoot off the dribble....I'd say Neal, Parker, Mills, and Kawhi.

Midrange game is a lost art...and Green doesn't have it. If he did he could easily average 14pts

[Trifecta]

Hopefully DG will work to expand his game in the offseason and add to his 3pt shooting gig.
Cause if he is one dimensional, professionals will remember and shut it down like the heat did.

[coachmac87]

Dude is a decent spot-up shooter, and it's probably a good thing for the spurs that he can't basically do anything else on the court in the sense that he would be asking for twice the money he currently gets paid if he could shoot off the dribble as efficiently and consistently as he does as a spot-up shooter imho. I'd take a self-propelled artillery over a WWI cannon anyday of the week, but that would be too expensive for the Spurs.

+1

[Baam]

Dude is a decent spot-up shooter, and it's probably a good thing for the spurs that he can't basically do anything else on the court in the sense that he would be asking for twice the money he currently gets paid if he could shoot off the dribble as efficiently and consistently as he does as a spot-up shooter imho. I'd take a self-propelled artillery over a WWI cannon anyday of the week, but that would be too expensive for the Spurs.

He's still probably gonna get twice the money once his contract is up.

[spurraider21]

There's a difference between being able to get one's own shot and for one to shoot off the dribble. Shooting off the dribble is literally a different skill than being able to dribble in traffic, which is what most people in here are concatinating with shooting off the dribble.

Green can't dribble well, so he can't get his own shot against even mediocre defense. But he can shoot off the dribble, which allows him to run the pick-and-roll and hit a shot off the dribble if his man goes under the screen.
they're NOT going to go under his screens. at which point you are going to rely on Green to be a passer/playmaker

[coachmac87]

I don't consider gathering yourself after you take 1 dribble behind a screen shooting off the dribble...

Manu Ginobili can't shoot off the dribble...which is why he's least effective because he can't to the rim...and settles for 3's..

[Chinook]

I'm talking about a pump fake and two dribble midrange pull up....that's not in his game..

Not many players on the Spurs can shoot off the dribble....I'd say Neal, Parker, Mills, and Kawhi.

Midrange game is a lost art...and Green doesn't have it. If he did he could easily average 14pts

Green shoots an above-average percentage from mid-range (40 percent from 16-23 feet). It's from close range that he sucks (31 percent from 3-9 feet).

And Green already averages 14 points per 36. He just needs to play more minutes.

[Chinook]

they're NOT going to go under his screens. at which point you are going to rely on Green to be a passer/playmaker

Yes, and last year, he was good at hitting Duncan for a pick-and-pop when the defender went over the screen. This year, he needs to get better at hitting the roll man. He struggles with threading the needle in the paint.

[Strategic]

I'd rather see him work on the Gervin finger roll.

[Chinook]

I don't consider gathering yourself after you take 1 dribble behind a screen shooting off the dribble...

Manu Ginobili can't shoot off the dribble...which is why he's least effective because he can't to the rim...and settles for 3's..

Again, shooting off the dribble after one or two dribbles already makes Green a lot more than just a spot-up shooter, which if you remember is the entire point over which we disagreed initially. No one thinks he's a good driver, or step-back shooter. He has to develop a better mid-range game for sure. But there's a market difference between a pure spot-up shooter like Mike Miller and a shooter like Green.

Also, Ginobili was actually good from mid-range, especially off a step-back. Don't let his bad shooting last year cloud that fact.

[coachmac87]

Even with his great Finals...Neal to me is just a way better shooter than Green. You can give me all the stats etc..what makes a great shooter is confidence and that's something Gary never lacked...and Green can be shaky because he can't do anything els sometimes hurt him and the Spurs...

But since he's so damn good a shooting Pop continued to live with it. Gary is clearly the more talented player and will probably get paid more then Green..

[coachmac87]

Jk bout Gary getting more $ the Green lol

[coachmac87]

Again, shooting off the dribble after one or two dribbles already makes Green a lot more than just a spot-up shooter, which if you remember is the entire point over which we disagreed initially. No one thinks he's a good driver, or step-back shooter. He has to develop a better mid-range game for sure. But there's a market difference between a pure spot-up shooter like Mike Miller and a shooter like Green.

Also, Ginobili was actually good from mid-range, especially off a step-back. Don't let his bad shooting last year cloud that fact.

I've seen it before just wouldn't really say its in his game tho..

But man if Manu had a mid range game it'd really help his scoring issues..and his forced turnovers

[KaiRMD1]

Danny has to develop more of a game than standing behind the 3 point line, simple as that. Even Neal has other moves (but he was purely a 3 point shooter)

[apalisoc_9]

Danny has to develop more of a game than standing behind the 3 point line, simple as that. Even Neal has other moves (but he was purely a 3 point shooter)

Yup. He needs to develop a dribble shoot game..He's good enough of a shooter to do it, he's just a pretty poor dribbler.

He doesnt need to be a good dribble, but just sufficient enough to give him a good feel. He also needs to get a feel of help defenders and defenders running of to the three point line. Make better decisions instead of waiting then getting harassed or pulling up for a contested three. He can improve and add this his game this summer.

[taps]

posted in the wrong thread.

[Rogue]

Again, shooting off the dribble after one or two dribbles already makes Green a lot more than just a spot-up shooter, which if you remember is the entire point over which we disagreed initially. No one thinks he's a good driver, or step-back shooter. He has to develop a better mid-range game for sure. But there's a market difference between a pure spot-up shooter like Mike Miller and a shooter like Green.

Also, Ginobili was actually good from mid-range, especially off a step-back. Don't let his bad shooting last year cloud that fact.

Drawing a few lines with your weak head doesn't mean being ambidextrous imho. A shooter's game involves off-ball movement and the "one or two dribbles" are just part of it. Shooting off the dribble, by strict definition, is something like what you often see Dirk and Nash do, driving with the ball and attempting a sudden jumper before defenders can react. Green might have better mobility than most "spot-up" shooters but I'd never equate a horse-dragged cannon to a self-propelled artillery tbh.

[monkeypunk]

I'm talking about a pump fake and two dribble midrange pull up....that's not in his game..

Not many players on the Spurs can shoot off the dribble....I'd say Neal, Parker, Mills, and Kawhi.

Midrange game is a lost art...and Green doesn't have it. If he did he could easily average 14pts

You can't tell me that someone one can hit the 3 consistently with that %, can't learn to hit the mid range shot at least somewhat respectably.

I think once DG learns that fake, two dribble, pull up shot, he'll open himself up at the 3 point line and may shoot an even higher 3P% due to better looks.

Until he does, his wings will still use wax...

[Man In Black]

He just needs to recognize what he's best at. Against Miami in Game 6 and 7, he was being invited to drive. He should have recognized this invitation and used his teammates better so that he could get back to behind the 3 point line.

He needs to go Dale Ellis, not Paul Pierce.

[Chinook]

Drawing a few lines with your weak head doesn't mean being ambidextrous imho. A shooter's game involves off-ball movement and the "one or two dribbles" are just part of it. Shooting off the dribble, by strict definition, is something like what you often see Dirk and Nash do, driving with the ball and attempting a sudden jumper before defenders can react. Green might have better mobility than most "spot-up" shooters but I'd never equate a horse-dragged cannon to a self-propelled artillery tbh.

Shooting off the dribble literally means shooting the ball immediately after having dribbled it. Whether it's a rise-up shot over defenders or just an iso shot after a drive, it doesn't matter. As I said before, the reason why people talk about it being important is because it's a harder skill to learn to get a consistent form off the dribble than it is to learn to get a consistent form when one just catches and shoots. The ability to shoot off the dribble is something Green can do consistently. The ability to drive while protecting the ball is something Green can't do consistently. He already has the move that apalisoc_9 wants him to get (he hit 40 percent of those last season, which was above average for his position), but he needs to develop the ability to get his own shot against good defense.

Green's biggest problem isn't that he lacks any of this stuff in his game; it's that he's incredibly inconsistent (no one would be arguing that he didn't have a counter move if we were talking about this right after the WCSF). He was a lot streakier at shooting threes two seasons ago as well, and he got more consistent last year. I imagine the coaches will work with him to try to expand his go-to moves.

What was interesting is that Pop started calling for Green to play Parker's spot in "the loop" on some plays, which gave Danny wide-open threes that he knocked down. I think they'll start running more Allen-type screen plays for him next season.