Spurs should not have tried to rebound

[Gino-Step]

When up 3 final play in Game 6, the mistake Pop made wasn't not putting Duncan in. The flaw was to have anyone boxing out at all. All players should have guarded the 3 point line and stayed guarding the 3 point line even after the shot went up. Who cares about rebounding? Just keep your feet on the 3 point line. There's no point even boxing out with Chris Bosh. What you there for? They can't tie unless they hit a three. Let them board and dunk. No passing lanes would be available cause Parker would already be in the corner.

5 man zone around the three point line.

Thoughts?

[Keepin' it real]

SPURS SHOULD NOT HAVE TRIED TO REBOUND ... Thoughts?

86 the caps lock.

[L.I.T]

What the fuck do you think the Spurs were doing? Players broke down, didn't defend the three, and ran after the board. give up the two or the board. Whoever came off Allen (heard either Manu/Green/TP) was at fault.

[Baseline]

If Duncan were in the game, we would've won. Period, end of story. It's on Pop.

[spursince#99]

I'll never get over that loss as long as I live.

[lefty]

I'll never get over that loss as long as I live.
then you know what you have to do in order to get over it

[spursince#99]

then you know what you have to do in order to get over it


I don't even plan on getting over it. I've learned to accept the fact that I'll never get over it.

[Chinook]

You're actually pretty right on that one. I've been thinking about the same thing lately. It's harder to get players to not go after boards that it is to get them to allow penetration, though. I think everyone would have played it differently.

This does undercut the constant complaining about Pop's decision, though. As you said, the Spurs should have just allowed the rebound. If that's the case, Duncan being out there would have been totally the wrong decision.

Teleologists will continue to complain, though.

[davidbowie]

This loss will haunt me 20 years from now. Ill wake up in a cold sweat wondering why I left ray open.

[therealtruth]

If Duncan were in the game, we would've won. Period, end of story. It's on Pop.

[chapnis]

If Duncan were in the game, we would've won. Period, end of story. It's on Pop.

If Duncan were in the game they would've screened with whoever he was guarding, Spurs would have been forced to switch and the Heat would have got a wide open 3.

[sventhedog]

so how long are we staying on this topic? so i'll know when to come back to the forums. lol.

[UZER]

I said this exact thing a week ago....


What if the spurs didnt even go for the rebound and let the heat go get it if they want to while everyone stays along the three point line? If they get the rebound and score the layup, who cares. But since they need a three, you let them go get the rebound and make them come back out to you while you're sealing off the three poi nt line.

Its backwards, I know, but think about. Instead of scrambling for the long rebounds then scrambling to cover the three, just stay at the three point line and seal it off when they try to come back out.

[dg7md]

I'll never get over that loss as long as I live.

No offense, but it's just a game. We're all hardcore Spurs fans here but this isn't like someone died.

They'll be back. It was an insane fluke like backdoor sweep. Niners fans feel the same, but they got inventory to back up on, as do we. We're still up on the Heat in ring count and last I checked we have an all-time great playing for us. We're going to be fine.

[L.I.T]

Seriously. It's precisely what they were doing. It was a situational breakdown on the court. They should have been staying home on the shooters.

Finally catching up to what Pop was doing and why. Players just had a mental breakdown.

[Spur|n|Austin]

http://media.tumblr.com/370bbfb323bc6489c74f9d74d2ae3057/tumblr_inline_mlomr7BD2L1qz4rgp.gif

[TXstbobcat]

I'll never get over that loss as long as I live.

It was the toughest loss I have ever had to take as a spurs fan but it isn't life and death.

[cjw]

Teams screw up the D all the time. This one just happened that this was the most epic fail of all time.

Similar situation in 2010 against Memphis, but this was worse given the rebounds (we hit our shots in that game 5). Lebron's first miss was so godawful that anybody could have rebounded the ball. Nothing you can do about that play. The second play though that you're talking about though ... Bosh just went in harder and grabbed the ball and Manu inexplicably fell down, screening Green out of the play. Nothing Parker could do there except try to recover. He smartly left Lebron to run after the best shooter on the planet, so you try to force him to pass it back to a much lower percentage play.

[UZER]

If Duncan were in the game they would've screened with whoever he was guarding, Spurs would have been forced to switch and the Heat would have got a wide open 3.

Like the switch Tiago forced with Bosh and green? Or wait, he made that block.

[exstatic]

I don't even plan on getting over it. I've learned to accept the fact that I'll never get over it.

You're sad, and I would hate to walk a foot, let alone a mile in your shoes.

[jsandiego]

Teams screw up the D all the time.
Yep, just ask Rasheed Wallace about leaving Horry open in Game 5 of 2005. It happens, even to the best of 'em.

I wanted it as bad as anybody, but bottom line is most think our team overachieved this year, and we pretty much came closer to winning a title than anyone else in league history. In the big picture, I got to see Game 5 live and in person, and our team's ride in 2012-2013 was awesome. I'd much rather lose a title on two clutch shots, knowing we were the better team most of the series, than to lose on a BS whistle or something. There are no draws in basketball; someone had to win.

[Keepin' it real]

Spurs should not have tried to rebound

I know popular opinion is that if Tim would have been in the game for either or both of Miami's final two possessions in regulation, the Spurs would have won. As Lee Corso says, "Not so fast, my friend."

If anything, I think being out of the game might have saved Tim from the ultimate heartache and disappointment. Imagine this:



Manu makes 1 of 2 FT, Spurs up 5.
Pop takes Duncan out for next possession ... Heat miss 3 pt shot, rebound, then make a 3 pt shot, cutting lead to 2.
Kawhi fouled, makes 1 of 2, Spurs up 3.
(Here's what many of you were wanting) Pop leaves Tim in the game.
LBJ misses 3 pointer, Duncan rebounds and is fouled.
Duncan goes to the line with a chance to ice the game and win the title.
Duncan misses both free throws.
Heat score buzzer-beater 3, sending game to OT, and go on to win the game and ultimately the title.


We all saw how dejected Tim was, but imagine if he would have grabbed the board, gone to the line then missed two? And then lost the series?? He'd be on suicide watch.

We've all seen Tim historically miss 4th quarter free throws in the playoffs, so it's very possible this could have happened. I'm just sayin' don't act like Tim being in the game would have guaranteed a title. If it helps you cope, that's great, but there's no truth to it.

[Budkin]

I don't even plan on getting over it. I've learned to accept the fact that I'll never get over it.

Pretty much feel the same... as a Spurs fan it will always burn. How can it not? The only positive is that 0.4 and Manu's foul seem like nothing.

[adonis827]

They should just have fouled someone- and make them earn their two. When the spurs get the ball back- the heat would also quickly foul. Basically making it a free throw contest.

But Pop is quite arrogant and not consider this while Hack a Howard is part of his tactics.

But everything is over already. We just have to move on and hope for a great next season.

[ro_50]

You just have to move on. For every heartbreak like this past NBA Finals, there was a Robert Horry shot that rimmed out on the Spurs when he was on the Lakers in that game 5 of 2003 WCF and even in game 5 of 2005 NBA Finals where Rasheed left Horry at the end of Game 5 ot and Horry drained it.

Its not life or death and we are all passionate Spurs fan but with time, with reflection, it was an amazing journey this team went on and we can all appreciate it.

I would've loved to see TD get number 5 but didn't happen this season. But their legacy cemented and maybe being a fan of 22 years I'm really content with what they've done because its amazing and I'm speechless at how they've rebounded to be a title contender the past two seasons.

Maybe its cuz I remember the pre Duncan years and recall the heartbreak and wondered if they would ever win 1. Now that was long ago but I look back and so grateful of what have they done.

And next year Spurs will right back in the mix.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs did a HORRIBLE job guarding the 3 in those last 40 seconds. The rule of thumb is give up the 2, but not the 3 in those situations.

Terrible terrible terrible.

[Sean Cagney]

It was the toughest loss I have ever had to take as a spurs fan but it isn't life and death.

^^^^^^^ This.

[-21-]

There should be different section for these Finals thread. It's both depressing :depressed and annoying :rolleyes. I know it sucks, it's the worst, but at least try to move on guys.

[tesseractive]

You're actually pretty right on that one. I've been thinking about the same thing lately. It's harder to get players to not go after boards that it is to get them to allow penetration, though. I think everyone would have played it differently.

This does undercut the constant complaining about Pop's decision, though. As you said, the Spurs should have just allowed the rebound. If that's the case, Duncan being out there would have been totally the wrong decision.

Teleologists will continue to complain, though.
I'm familiar with teleology in philosophical contexts, but I'm a little confused by how you're using it here, and I'm genuinely curious about what exactly you mean.

[TE]

No offense, but it's just a game. We're all hardcore Spurs fans here but this isn't like someone died.

They'll be back. It was an insane fluke like backdoor sweep. Niners fans feel the same, but they got inventory to back up on, as do we. We're still up on the Heat in ring count and last I checked we have an all-time great playing for us. We're going to be fine.

Nah shit, of course nobody died. This loss, however, as a sports fan is one you can't get over. People muddle sports and put them into life perspective to try and "get over" it but it's not going to happen. You'll always remember the hugely missed opportunity to close out Miami IN THEIR HOME COURT with TD having a hall of fame closeout game.

What I can take away from this past year is that the Spurs gave it their best shot and will in all likelihood be in the mix of things next season barring a huge injury.

[Chinook]

I'm familiar with teleology in philosophical contexts, but I'm a little confused by how you're using it here, and I'm genuinely curious about what exactly you mean.

In ethics, teleology essentially equates to, "The ends justify the means." It's the theory that the results of actions determine whether the action was right or wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism#Teleological_ethics

Some people on this board are being teleological by claiming that Pop made the wrong decision simply because it didn't work.

[TE]

I loathe Pops decision not to have Duncan in but looking back it now it's hindsight tbh.

I really do believe Miami was a team of destiny and Lebron is man of destiny. Down the stretch his play resembled the chokitude of the 2011 finals. Had Miami gone on to lose, Lebron would have been crucified by the media.

Honestly we can harp on what the Spurs should have done but Miami did what they had to do in incredibly difficult circumstances.

[spursince#99]

You're sad, and I would hate to walk a foot, let alone a mile in your shoes.


Dude I'm more accomplished right now than you'll ever be in life. FACT.

[tesseractive]

In ethics, teleology essentially equates to, "The ends justify the means." It's the theory that the results of actions determine whether the action was right or wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism#Teleological_ethics

Some people on this board are being teleological by claiming that Pop made the wrong decision simply because it didn't work.
Yeah, I'm familiar with it in the context of consequentialism and such. (I managed to collect a philosophy degree in my misspent youth. ;) ) I'd just never heard it used specifically in reference to hindsight. I mean, in general, we would all say that the best coaching strategy to choose in advance is the one that you believe most likely to lead to success (barring things like trying to cripple an opponent). So in that sense, teleology isn't even controversial.

"X didn't work, therefore X was the wrong choice" seems like something different.

[therealtruth]

Spurs did a HORRIBLE job guarding the 3 in those last 40 seconds. The rule of thumb is give up the 2, but not the 3 in those situations.

Terrible terrible terrible.

That's what forgets to get mentioned. There was a lot of stuff in the Spurs control that they didn't do. They should have inbounded to their best free throw shooter. They should have tried to take time of the clock. They should have made it difficult for the Heat to inbound the ball. They should have seized the championship instead they waited for the Heat to hand it to them. That's a losing strategy.