Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[timvp]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--spurs--talks-for-andrei-kirilenko-end-without-deal-052544949.html

The San Antonio Spurs' exploration of acquiring free-agent forward Andrei Kirilenko in a sign-and-trade agreement with the Minnesota Timberwolves has passed without completion, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

San Antonio envisioned Kirilenko, a 6-foot-9 forward, as an ideal fit for its system. He's a gifted scorer, passer and shot blocker, and is able to defend multiple positions.

There were possible combinations of Spurs assets that appealed to the T'wolves, but ultimately Minnesota was unable – or unwilling – to take back the contracts on what could've been an $8 million to $9 million annual salary agreement for Kirilenko, league sources said.

The Spurs reached agreement with two free agents, guard Marco Belinelli and forward-center Jeff Pendergraph. The Spurs lacked the salary-cap space to make a run at Kirilenko without the use of a sign-and-trade.

The T'wolves wanted to keep salary-cap flexibility to make several free-agent signings, including Kevin Martin and Chase Budinger. The T'wolves are still chasing Denver Nuggets free agent Corey Brewer, sources said.

Kirilenko opted out of the $10 million owed him in the final year of his contract and has been searching for a multiyear deal.












:madrun

[timtonymanu]

Of course.

[spurraider21]

call them back. throw in another first. do something. dksajfnakjfhasdf

[Marcus Bryant]

So who else is going to give him more than the MLE?

[crc21209]

So Flip Saunders would rather let Kirilenko walk for nothing instead of getting back some players, picks, and/or cash? What an idiot. What a cockblocker...

[T Park]

Man AK47 musts pissed off Flip,,..

[racm]

So Flip Saunders, despite questionable decisions (drafting Shabazz, giving Kevin Martin a big contract) actually doesn't do something stupid and help stack a team in the same conference?

Proves he's more competent than David Kahn; were Kahn still in MIN AK would be a Spur by now.

[tesseractive]

:pctoss

[MannyIsGod]

So who else is going to give him more than the MLE?

Maybe no one but the Twolves aren't going to sit around and not sign anyone in order to make the move.

[MeloHype]

http://www.ohmagif.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/epic-cry.gif

[timvp]

1. If Manu takes less money, the Spurs could have fit AK47 under the cap without relying on the sign-and-trade.

2. Well, at least we now know officially that AK47 was the main target.

3. Could there be any life here? Could Woj/Ludden be floating this rumor to try to nudge the T-Wolves into action? Eh ... probably not.

4. $8-9M person is a lot of Kirilenko. I'd be more comfortable at ~$7M range.

5. If the Spurs were active in sign-and-trade talks and were willing to give up assets, I wonder if they'll move on to another target...

[Man In Black]

Well...we've seen this before. I think we should wait and see. The Market is such that AK won't be able to get top dollar even if he is worth it as long as he wants to win a title, or that he gets all the cash he wants but continues to call game 82 the end of his season, baring injury.

I'll hold a sliver of hope to get this thing still done but that sliver is along the lines of this:
wGdhc9k07Ms

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure. So Kirirlenko now has to accept that he will not be seeing more than that.

[SA210]

Don't worry Spurs fans. We have Matt Matty Bon Bon :lol

[L.I.T]

On one hand, that silences the ridiculous bitching that the Spurs weren't really trying to improve the team.

On the other, fuck Saunders. He's still salty from all those T'Wolves ass kickings.

[MannyIsGod]

1. If Manu takes less money, the Spurs could have fit AK47 under the cap without relying on the sign-and-trade.

2. Well, at least we now know officially that AK47 was the main target.

3. Could there be any life here? Could Woj/Ludden be floating this rumor to try to nudge the T-Wolves into action? Eh ... probably not.

4. $8-9M person is a lot of Kirilenko. I'd be more comfortable at ~$7M range.

5. If the Spurs were active in sign-and-trade talks and were willing to give up assets, I wonder if they'll move on to another target...

Don't forget if they had waived Bonner they'd have been able to sign him straight up as well; regardless of Manu's deal. Still, can't help but be pissed at Manu's deal. Dude better produce.

[HI-FI]

woo hoo

bring on numero seis
:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What did everyone expect with douche ass Flip Saunders as a trade partner?

[MannyIsGod]

Sure. So Kirirlenko now has to accept that he will not be seeing more than that.

Sure, but that means pretty much nothing for the Spurs.

[StoneBuddha]

Well, at least we know the front office was working on things in their usual quiet manner.

[MannyIsGod]

On one hand, that silences the ridiculous bitching that the Spurs weren't really trying to improve the team.

On the other, fuck Saunders. He's still salty from all those T'Wolves ass kickings.

Anyone who says the Spurs aren't trying to improve is retarded so there's no point to silencing them.

[TheGoldStandard]

RC commenting on cap flexibility was a total wash.. painted themselves into a corner and needed the kindness of strangers to improve a position where they need a backup..

[Baam]

So stupid to throw 16M at our two worst PO performers, basically these two terrible contracts messed up everything.

We shouldn't have needed a S&T to a sign a good player this summer, the last time they have so much cap space in the TD era...

[Nathan89]

Manu sticking it to Spursfans just one more time this year. He make me not want to shop at HEB tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Kirilenko situation is strange, tbh..the only other team that has shown interest, according to reports, is the Cavs..so I'm not losing out hope that a deal can be made with the Spurs, although I'm not holding my breathe, tbh..

I'm aware that he said he doesn't intend on returning overseas, but maybe he has changed his mind following the underwhelming response to his rumored demands for a contract, so far, tbh..

[SA210]

Manu sticking it to Spursfans just one more time this year. He make me not want to shop at HEB tbh.

:rollin

[spurraider21]

i'm glad we pulled off a typical draft and stash instead of picking somebody up that can help us during the end of the big 3 era. i was fine with jean-charles because i assumed that was a prelude to a busy offseason

[slick'81]

11 mil this season for manu/bonner

[TheGoldStandard]

:rollin

Goes to show that Manu doesn't believe in the "1 simple price" that Gunn offers..

[MannyIsGod]

Manu sticking it to Spursfans just one more time this year. He make me not want to shop at HEB tbh.

I LOLed.

[TheGoldStandard]

i'm glad we pulled off a typical draft and stash instead of picking somebody up that can help us during the end of the big 3 era. i was fine with jean-charles because i assumed that was a prelude to a busy offseason

Watch him not come over for at least 4 years.

[MannyIsGod]

i'm glad we pulled off a typical draft and stash instead of picking somebody up that can help us during the end of the big 3 era. i was fine with jean-charles because i assumed that was a prelude to a busy offseason

No one available at that point who was going to help.

[Gino-Step]

Can we still do a 3 way trade with a team that is willing to take those contracts that Minnesota won't and thereby pass on the cap space to Minnesota? What's going on with those UTAH rumors?????????

WE NEED AK47. AK47 + Beli = believe again and the team coming back next year believing. Otherwise, this team may just belabor losing in Game 6 during times of adversity next year.

[timvp]

The Spurs could try the ol' Derek Anderson sign-for-scraps-this-summer-we'll-take-care-of-you-next-summer bit but that wouldn't make sense for AK47. The MLE is too small noways for him to take that gamble.

[HI-FI]

Manu sticking it to Spursfans just one more time this year. He make me not want to shop at HEB tbh.

yep. funny how many of his fanboys worried more about his contract or spinning his godawful finals than him screwing the team over again.

[TheWriter]

If AK is off the table (he may or may not be), why not go after Corey Brewer with a s&t. Neal and CJ for CB. That solves our backup 3 problem. Then maybe paw. Off bonner for something.

[Chinook]

It's not that big of a deal. He would have helped, but he's not good enough anymore to break the team up over. We'll just have to see what they do next. There are plenty of other trades out there for them to make, and they have plenty of assets to make them.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs could try the ol' Derek Anderson sign-for-scraps-this-summer-we'll-take-care-of-you-next-summer bit but that wouldn't make sense for AK47. The MLE is too small noways for him to take that gamble.

Assuming Pendergraph with the room exception, Amnesty of Bonner and Salary dump of some of the guards they can probably get to 4.5 million but I really really really doubt thats an option for AK. I think thats pipe dream territory.

[ElNono]

Never been that high on AK personally, tbh...

[TheGoldStandard]

If AK is off the table (he may or may not be), why not go after Corey Brewer with a s&t. Neal and CJ for CB. That solves our backup 3 problem. Then maybe paw. Off bonner for something.

That kills our prospect PG's.. which we still don't really have a reliable backup yet.

[timvp]

One would think there would be a deal worked out where Minnesota gets Kevin Martin, Spurs get AK47 and OKC gets scraps, picks and a trade exception. And maybe the T'Wolves can shed Ridnour somewhere in the deal if they need encouragement to cooperate.

Maybe I'm missing something but that looks like it'd help all three teams, tbh.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's not that big of a deal. He would have helped, but he's not good enough anymore to break the team up over. We'll just have to see what they do next. There are plenty of other trades out there for them to make, and they have plenty of assets to make them.

Not breaking up the team by paying Manu a little less and scrapping Bonner or dumping Mills/De Colo who didn't even do anything meaningful this season.

[TheWriter]

That kills our prospect PG's.. which we still don't really have a reliable backup yet.

Then swap Corey with de Colo or Mills.

[TheWriter]

One would think there would be a deal worked out where Minnesota gets Kevin Martin, Spurs get AK47 and OKC gets scraps, picks and a trade exception. And maybe the T'Wolves can shed Ridnour somewhere in the deal if they need encouragement to cooperate.

Maybe I'm missing something but that looks like it'd help all three teams, tbh.

What about a four team trade involving denver/brewer?

[spurraider21]

lets acquire corey brewer just to stick it to Saunders tbh

[Chinook]

Not breaking up the team by paying Manu a little less and scrapping Bonner or dumping Mills/De Colo who didn't even do anything meaningful this season.

I don't mean then; I mean now. If the Wolves are asking for something like Green for AK, I'm glad the Spurs are backing out. AK is only a good pickup if he's added to the Spurs' top 7/8. If any of them besides Neal have to go to bring him in, it's a lateral move at best.

[ElNono]

One would think there would be a deal worked out where Minnesota gets Kevin Martin, Spurs get AK47 and OKC gets scraps, picks and a trade exception. And maybe the T'Wolves can shed Ridnour somewhere in the deal if they need encouragement to cooperate.

Maybe I'm missing something but that looks like it'd help all three teams, tbh.

I get the feeling Saunders doesn't want to do AK any favors...

[TheGoldStandard]

lets acquire corey brewer just to stick it to Saunders tbh

:rollin

[CitizenDwayne]

Well damn. I actually thought something could happen on this front, due to the sheer lack of information circulating.

I'm done trying to guess what this FO is going to accomplish. I'm just taking solace in the fact that this team made the Finals this year and, as of now, have at least not gotten any worse.

Though I still haven't a damn clue what all this "8 guards and 1 SF" nonsense is about.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't mean then; I mean now. If the Wolves are asking for something like Green for AK, I'm glad the Spurs are backing out. AK is only a good pickup if he's added to the Spurs' top 7/8. If any of them besides Neal have to go to bring him in, it's a lateral move at best.

Our front office doesn't seem to the ones backing out.

Also, AK brings more to the table at a position where the Spurs are thin. On the other hand, Green is a good player but the Spurs are deep at that position.

[ElNono]

:lol Flip Saunders
:lol living off prime KG
:lol destroyed a championship team
:lol KG finally rings with a different coach
:lol terrible coach
:lol overpays for K:lolvin M:lolrtin
:lol terrible GM

[Baam]

I get the feeling Saunders doesn't want to do AK any favors...

It's not about AK, it's about the Spurs, he had them by the balls and he let them know...

[HarlemHeat37]

I highly doubt the FO would consider trading Green for AK, it would be a foolish move by the Spurs, tbh..

I assume they aren't offering any of the core 6 guys, so adding an 18 PER player from last season that plays good defense and understands team basketball to your rotation would be an impact move, tbh..

[spurraider21]

:lol Flip Saunders
:lol living off prime KG
:lol destroyed a championship team
:lol KG finally rings with a different coach
:lol terrible coach
:lol overpays for K:lolvin M:lolrtin
:lol terrible GM
:lol not helping the spurs
:lol what a scumbag
:lol bring back kahn

[Chinook]

Our front office doesn't seem to the ones backing out.

Yes, they are. The Spurs could still make a ton of flexibility by paying teams to take some contracts off their hands in the same way that Golden State did (and it wouldn't be nearly as expensive). Then they could give Minnesota the empty sign-and-trade they want. But the team doesn't think it's worth it to part with that many assets for Kirilenko. They don't think he's good enough to go through the trouble. So they are backing out. Minnesota may be backing out too, but since they weren't the ones who approached the Spurs, I don't see them as being able to do so.

[apalisoc_9]

I hope flip saunders dies taking a shit or something. What an ass...

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, they are. The Spurs could still make a ton of flexibility by paying teams to take some contracts off their hands in the same way that Golden State did (and it wouldn't be nearly as expensive). Then they could give Minnesota the empty sign-and-trade they want. But the team doesn't think it's worth it to part with that many assets for Kirilenko. They don't think he's good enough to go through the trouble. So they are backing out. Minnesota may be backing out too, but since they weren't the ones who approached the Spurs, I don't see them as being able to do so.

Thats not the Spurs backing out. Thats the Spurs not undergoing a totally different process to get AK.

[Bruno]

At least good to know that Spurs haven't been just fine with standing pat. Kirilenko would have been just great.

Assuming the Kirilenko talks are dead, have Spurs a plan B that isn't just sticking with what they have? A key to that question is Bonner's contract: Have Spurs been able to push back the guaranteed deadline? Have they even tried to do so?

And Kirilenko could have been likely had without a S&T. With Belinelli signed with the room exception, Neal renounced, Bonner amnestied, De Colo and Mills salary dumped, Spurs could have offered Kirlenko a contract starting at $8M by just signing him with cap space. I really don't get why Spurs haven't done that. Are Pendergraph and Bonner worth Kirilenko?

[Chinook]

Why are people attacking Saunders? Why would he mess up his cap space for Kirilenko? It doesn't make any sense that he'd spend a lot of money and picks to bring in swingmen only have to cut some of them so he could take some of the Spurs' garbage? He already has 14 or 15 players committed to the roster. It makes not sense to agree to a sign-and-trade when you don't need to.

[Bruno]

A Kirlenko S&T would have made sense for Minny if OKC was fine with doing a Martin S&T. It would have allowed them to just sign Corey Brewer with the MLE. Now, it's fully possible that OKC didn't want to make both Spurs and Wolves stronger teams with basically no benefits for them.

[racm]

On one hand, that silences the ridiculous bitching that the Spurs weren't really trying to improve the team.

On the other, fuck Saunders. He's still salty from all those T'Wolves ass kickings.

:tu

[spurraider21]

Why are people attacking Saunders? Why would he mess up his cap space for Kirilenko? It doesn't make any sense that he'd spend a lot of money and picks to bring in swingmen only have to cut some of them so he could take some of the Spurs' garbage? He already has 14 or 15 players committed to the roster. It makes not sense to agree to a sign-and-trade when you don't need to.
because they can also pick up draft picks and a trade exception

[Chinook]

At least good to know that Spurs haven't been just fine with standing pat. Kirilenko would have been just great.

Assuming the Kirilenko talks are dead, have Spurs a plan B that isn't just sticking with what they have? A key to that question is Bonner's contract: Have Spurs been able to push back the guaranteed deadline? Have they even tried to do so?

And Kirilenko could have been likely had without a S&T. With Belinelli signed with the room exception, Neal renounced, Bonner amnestied, De Colo and Mills salary dumped, Spurs could have offered Kirlenko a contract starting at $8M by just signing him with cap space. I really don't get why Spurs haven't done that. Are Pendergraph and Bonner worth Kirilenko?

Not to mention the team could have just kept Neal and giving Pendergraph the room exception if they wanted him that badly. They still would have been able to give Kirilenko starting at $7.4 Million, which is a great deal compared to what he's going to get.

[Chinook]

because they can also pick up draft picks and a trade exception

But they already have draft picks, and the trade exception is useless if they just want to use cap space. It literally makes no sense to take another team's trash just to say you got something back for Kirilenko.

[Baam]

At least good to know that Spurs haven't been just fine with standing pat. Kirilenko would have been just great.

Assuming the Kirilenko talks are dead, have Spurs a plan B that isn't just sticking with what they have? A key to that question is Bonner's contract: Have Spurs been able to push back the guaranteed deadline? Have they even tried to do so?

And Kirilenko could have been likely had without a S&T. With Belinelli signed with the room exception, Neal renounced, Bonner amnestied, De Colo and Mills salary dumped, Spurs could have offered Kirlenko a contract starting at $8M by just signing him with cap space. I really don't get why Spurs haven't done that. Are Pendergraph and Bonner worth Kirilenko?

Yeah and that's not even talking about Manu and Tiago's deals...

But :pop: probably took Bonner off the table... Can't live without his lover...

[ElNono]

Why are people attacking Saunders?

It's fun, tbh

[MannyIsGod]

A Kirlenko S&T would have made sense for Minny if OKC was fine with doing a Martin S&T. It would have allowed them to just sign Corey Brewer with the MLE. Now, it's fully possible that OKC didn't want to make both Spurs and Wolves stronger teams with basically no benefits for them.

All reports are that OKC wanted to do the S&T to get the TE.

[timvp]

Assuming Pendergraph with the room exception, Amnesty of Bonner and Salary dump of some of the guards they can probably get to 4.5 million but I really really really doubt thats an option for AK. I think thats pipe dream territory.

There's still a small chance that Belinelli got the room exception and Pendergraph got the minimum. Reports on Belinelli would have to be high and McDonald would have to be full of sh!t regarding Pengergraph's contract. Neither one is unlikely by itself but together it's pretty unlikely.

McDonald's tweet is the only thing that is claiming two years and $4M for Teddy Pendergrass, right?

[MannyIsGod]

The good thing is that the offseason still isn't over and even if this is it for the Spurs they'll have flexibility to make a move at the deadline.

[racm]

:cry Spurfan is pissed opponent GMs aren't bending over for their team :cry
:cry still salty at how one-sided the Pau trade looked to be back then :cry
:cry not getting respect despite how pervasive the Pop coaching tree is :cry

[Chinook]

Our front office doesn't seem to the ones backing out.

Also, AK brings more to the table at a position where the Spurs are thin. On the other hand, Green is a good player but the Spurs are deep at that position.

They are not deep at defensive wings that are in the top 15 in TS% league-wide. AK will barely play if the other players on the team do what they're supposed to do. Sure, the Spurs can make minutes for him, but that's not necessarily going to be the most beneficial thing for the team in the long run.

And yes, the front office is backing out. That's why talks are done. Otherwise, they'd try to find another way to give Minnesota the trade exception they want.

[Chinook]

It's fun, tbh

Oh, well carry on, then.

[Bruno]

Yeah and that's not even talking about Manu and Tiago's deals...


Manu's taking a couple of $M less would surely helped to sign Kirilenko. Tiago didn't really matter since his cap hold is at $7.5M. Maybe what failed with that scenario is that not teams were willing to take De Colo and/or Mills. I doubt it since both contract are really cheap but we never know.

[Chinook]

That would suck, as even Royce White's deal got moved.

[racm]

Manu's taking a couple of $M less would surely helped to sign Kirilenko. Tiago didn't really matter since his cap hold is at $7.5M. Maybe what failed with that scenario is that not teams were willing to take De Colo and/or Mills. I doubt it since both contract are really cheap but we never know.
The only explanation the Spurs have so many guards is that they thought that the TWolves were still in the Kahn era of stocking up on combo guards while letting go of tangible assets.

[racm]

That would suck, as even Royce White's deal got moved.

Hinkie was Morey's number two and he wants to tank the season anyway.

[Baseline]

I'd love to know what the package was. Bonner/de Colo/What else?

[Bruno]

If Belinelli is signed with the room exception and Pendergraph to a min contract (and in that case, McDonald would look so bad) , Spurs plan B could just be to sign Kirilenko with cap space. Their plan A might have been a S&T because it was cheaper than amnestying Bonner whose contract might now be fully guaranteed.

[spurraider21]

do something. send Saunders a stripper. ugh. this deal has teased spurstalk for too long. i want a russian on the team! more international flavuh

[Texas_Ranger]

At least the are searching for quality players.

[outmap]

Question: Can another team with cap room sign AK then trade him to us?

[angelbelow]

Never been that high on AK personally, tbh...

I think AK as a franchise guy/2nd or 3rd best on a team is iffy too.. even though he was fun to watch. AK in our system with his skill set is very intriguing though.

[Chinook]

The Spurs could always try to acquire Pendergraph or Belinelli in a sign-and-trade as well. Maybe the Pacers would take Neal for Jeff, which would save the team a some cap space if they did that sign-and-trade after acquire Kirilenko in whichever way they felt was best.

[Chinook]

Question: Can another team with cap room sign AK then trade him to us?

No.

[FireMicoHalili]

something something tbh imo

[spurraider21]

The Spurs could always try to acquire Pendergraph or Belinelli in a sign-and-trade as well. Maybe the Pacers would take Neal for Jeff, which would save the team a some cap space if they did that sign-and-trade after acquire Kirilenko in whichever way they felt was best.

any chance thibodeau wants bonner for belinelli? :lmao

if that happens and we sign kirilenko i will poop myself

[outmap]

No.
Ok then, bummer!

[TheGoldStandard]

Yeah and that's not even talking about Manu and Tiago's deals...

But :pop: probably took Bonner off the table... Can't live without his lover...

http://i43.tinypic.com/eu3r4w.jpg

[timvp]

If Belinelli is signed with the room exception and Pendergraph to a min contract (and in that case, McDonald would look so bad) , Spurs plan B could just be to sign Kirilenko with cap space. Their plan A might have been a S&T because it was cheaper than amnestying Bonner whose contract might now be fully guaranteed.

I'd say this has a 1% chance of being reality. McDonald wouldn't make up a number for Pendergraph out the blue .................... would he?

[Chinook]

any chance thibodeau wants bonner for belinelli? :lmao

if that happens and we sign kirilenko i will poop myself

He did try to trade for Bargnani, so it's not out of the question. Both teams could really use shooters, and the Spurs happen to have two of them on their deep bench.

[TheGoldStandard]

I'd say this has a 1% chance of being reality. McDonald wouldn't make up a number for Pendergraph out the blue .................... would he?
Probably not, if he used the words "about" or "around" but it was pretty clear

[timvp]

Probably not, if he used the words "about" or "around" but it was pretty clear

IIRC, McDonald said something like "it's believed to be $4 million".

Maybe he saw that he was coming off of a 2-year, $3 million deal and estimated a slight raise.

prayingdog.jpg

[spurraider21]

this has gone too far not to happen. do it mitch, er, RC!

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Well, I guess we'll know when we wake up in the morning.

[Bruno]

I'd say this has a 1% chance of being reality. McDonald wouldn't make up a number for Pendergraph out the blue .................... would he?

Yeah, 1% sounds right. McDonald is bad but I would be surprised of him being that bad.

Now, it would be very weird if Spurs can't get Kirilenko because of Pendergraph especially while he wouldn't play a lot with Duncan, Splitter, Diaw and Kirilenko eating most of the PF/C minutes.

[venitian navigator]

I wonder if making sign and trades with ex-teams of Belinelli and Pendergraf would open space or the MLE for signing AK.
The most logical tardes could be Blair to indiana for Pendergraf (Indiana just needs other cheap reserve big men since also hansbrough has gone away, to raptors) and Neal to Chicago for Belinelli...

[spursince#99]

Another disappointment just like Game 6.

[spursince#99]

But this has gone too far for it to just fall through like this. Hopefully we don't give up so easily and make it happen one way or another.

[SpursSerb]

Well we could've just take the easier way and sign him as an FA.But that ship has sailed when we overpaid Manu.

[jesterbobman]

I don't get people blaming Flip. An AK S&T needs to be empty or they give up martin/Pek as they need the cap hold to keep Pek restricted and the Space to get martin. Bonner has no value.

The Spurs need to find some random team(s) to create a 3 way deal with Bonner/Neal/Blair out(requires the team wants to sign them and Neal/Blair want to go their), nothing to Minnesota(Cash and Lorbek, as well as a big TPE) with the team taking on Bonner getting a pick/Cash. I understand Minnesota not wanting to do it, it doesn't make sense for them.

But if you're giving up a first, even a heavily protected 1st that reverts to 2nds, you're probably better off just using the amnesty.

[spurraider21]

So Saunders refuses to facilitate a sign and trade for AK47, refused to make the Kevin Martin signing a S&T, and now Denver has been reluctant to facilitate a sign and trade for Brewer to get to Minnesota. I think the GM's of Denver, Minnesota, SA, and OKC all need to get on skype

[Raven]

that's what i thought, and it really sucks tbh.. ak47 is one of my favourite players while belinelli is one of my least..

[Fireball]

Sad this did not work out ... Spurs would have improved and gone even more international

[spursince#99]

Hopefully I'll awaken to good news in the morning, but I doubt it, tbh. No way should the FO not get this deal done.

[TE]

Long ago I entertained the reality that we wouldn't be getting AK-47. Helps in the likelihood of it actually not happening. No disappointment.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

So does this end all AK-47 talks?

[TheGoldStandard]

They'll just sign this guyhttp://i41.tinypic.com/nz2gsg.jpg

[slick'81]

Obviously wolves didn't like what spurs were selling but if that was the case why the rush to ink beli and Duncan penderhughes if they really wanted AK

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Going into next season with 1 SF would be a disaster.

[Spursfanfromafar]

A Kirlenko S&T would have made sense for Minny if OKC was fine with doing a Martin S&T. It would have allowed them to just sign Corey Brewer with the MLE. Now, it's fully possible that OKC didn't want to make both Spurs and Wolves stronger teams with basically no benefits for them.

Turns out OKC is keen on a Martin S&T but Minny aren't, according to Woj.


The Oklahoma City Thunder tried to orchestrate a sign-and-trade with Minnesota to gain a trade exception for losing Martin on a four-year, $28 million deal, but Minnesota hasn't been eager to reach an agreement, league sources said.

I thought Minny's FO will be better after Kaaahnn left. Turns out his ghost still resides there.

[objective]

terrible news.

And I don't get the people triumphing over the Spurs trying and failing to get a deal done.

They didn't have to fail. They could have signed AK outright by keeping Neal's caphold and later matching/signing, dumping De Colo, and amnestying Bonner.

I'm not the greatest fan of AK at this point in his career. But I do think he could have played in that Miami series, or any series the Spurs would play in. You can't say that for Bonner or Pendergraph. Period. Spurs had their chance to get it done, but now have to hope and dream.

[mosdef17]

Not convinced this is dead totally. Often deals are put aside and then revisited after teams have time to think it through and mull over other offers. I'm not saying it will get done, just don't think it's dead...

[therealtruth]

I don't see how the trade would have made sense. AK wasn't going to start over Leonard and I doubt he wants to come of the bench.

[mudyez]

Contenders don't trade with other contenders from the same conference!

[Bruno]

Turns out OKC is keen on a Martin S&T but Minny aren't, according to Woj.
I thought Minny's FO will be better after Kaaahnn left. Turns out his ghost still resides there.

I missed that in Woj article. In that case, it makes little sense. Minny won 31 games last season. they aren't in a position where they should be worried about making contenders stronger. If a Kirilenko S&T allows them to also get Cory Brewer, they should go for it.

[Bruno]

Not convinced this is dead totally. Often deals are put aside and then revisited after teams have time to think it through and mull over other offers. I'm not saying it will get done, just don't think it's dead...

Agree but teams will have to hurry up. Some events will make a deal impossible to make.

A Kirilenko S&T will be dead when Minny signs Kevin Martin because they will then renounce to Kirilenko Bird rights.
A Kirilenko potential signing with cap space might be still dead if the agreement for Pendergraph deal is $4M/2 years and will be dead for sure when Spurs will sign Splitter, Belinelli and Pendergraph.

[objective]

the very fact that this whole deal proposal got so far to make the radar like this suggests to me that Kirilenko had already given his blessing to the money and the role. This trade doesn't get far enough for Saunders to tell RC to get lost and call a cab if AK's agent told the Spurs a number that was too high or that he was demanding to start.

Furthermore, sign and trades are treated as single transactions. Teams can't pull a bait and switch either way. AK can't sign thinking he'll be a member of the Wolves only to find himself traded 5 minutes later, and vice versa the Wolves can't agree to a S&T and then after the ink is dry yell out, "fooled you!" and just keep him. AK had to be in on it.

[racm]

Going into next season with 1 SF would be a disaster.

What's the difference between SGs and SFs in Pop's system anyway?

[mosdef17]

Agree but teams will have to hurry up. Some events will make a deal impossible to make.

A Kirilenko S&T will be dead when Minny signs Kevin Martin because they will then renounce to Kirilenko Bird rights.
A Kirilenko potential signing with cap space might be still dead if the agreement for Pendergraph deal is $4M/2 years and will be dead for sure when Spurs will sign Splitter, Belinelli and Pendergraph.

So that would mean that it definitely is dead? As if they sign and trade AK with us would that mean it changes anything to do with the Kevin Martin deal? If for example we were to trade Bonner, one of our PG's and 1st rounder for AK on a two year $15m deal. They would be adding Bonner's and maybe a De Colo or Mills salary to their books. Would that effect Martin money?

[objective]

They can't take on any salary and still pay Martin if I understand things correctly.

They need a third team to take the Spurs salary and then Minny gets picks and a trade exception. They then either use that exception to take Martin or decide to renounce the exception and just sign Martin.

[Bruno]

So that would mean that it definitely is dead? As if they sign and trade AK with us would that mean it changes anything to do with the Kevin Martin deal? If for example we were to trade Bonner, one of our PG's and 1st rounder for AK on a two year $15m deal. They would be adding Bonner's and maybe a De Colo or Mills salary to their books. Would that effect Martin money?

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

[racm]

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

I just want the Spurs to get in there somewhere.

That said, given how Spurs offseason news is only leaked once the contracts have been agreed upon, I'd bet we'll be getting a Woj-bomb or two within the next 24 hours.

[mudyez]

They can't take on any salary and still pay Martin if I understand things correctly.

They need a third team to take the Spurs salary and then Minny gets picks and a trade exception. They then either use that exception to take Martin or decide to renounce the exception and just sign Martin.

Yeah otherwise it would be like a team signing its own FA and then not having enough money to get the wanted outside FA.

Wait, I remember some team just doing just that down there in texas.

[Spursfanfromafar]

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

Some of the Wolves blogs suggest that Minny is trying to get Brewer with the room exception after signing Martin with straight cap space instead of S&T. Good luck with that.

[Bruno]

Taking a fully guaranteed Bonner would be difficult for Minny because it would likely put them in luxury tax territory given what they still want to do (Brewer and Pekovic). I can only see a S&T for Kirilenko is Bonner's contract is still about $1M guaranteed.

And it would just be so great if McDonald is wrong on Pendergraph's contract. His source could have said him $2M and he take it like $2M per year while it was $2M total. A 2 years min contract is about $2M total.

[LkrFan]

:)

[mosdef17]

Yeah I'm struggling to think of a way or something that could happen that would end with;

- Spurs getting AK47
- Minny getting Brewer and Kevin Martin

[objective]

If only all they had to do was give up a first to get the deal done. And I know McDonald has a history which makes some people doubt the quality of his reporting (for a variety of reasons), but even I can't imagine him being so dead wrong on Pendergraph.

I'll repeat myself. Adding Kirilenko would be adding another player who would get minutes in any series they would play next year. Can't say that for Bonner. Hell, there's no reason to even say that for Splitter.

Adding a player who can perform like that would upgrade the roster tremendously.

[mosdef17]

Taking a fully guaranteed Bonner would be difficult for Minny because it would likely put them in luxury tax territory given what they still want to do (Brewer and Pekovic). I can only see a S&T for Kirilenko is Bonner's contract is still about $1M guaranteed.

And it would just be so great if McDonald is wrong on Pendergraph's contract. His source could have said him $2M and he take it like $2M per year while it was $2M total. A 2 years min contract is about $2M total.

When trying to think of a deal I'm factoring in finding a team to take either Barea ($4.67m) OR Ridnour ($4.32m) as if they could dump one of those, get a 1st round pick and partially guaranteed Bonner as a filler it starts to look realistic.

[Bruno]

When trying to think of a deal I'm factoring in finding a team to take either Barea ($4.67m) OR Ridnour ($4.32m) as if they could dump one of those, get a 1st round pick and partially guaranteed Bonner as a filler it starts to look realistic.

If they can salary dump Ridnour or Barea, they will have likely enough cap space to just sign Brewer and Martin. It then would seem like the best option for them.

[mosdef17]

If they can salary dump Ridnour or Barea, they will have likely enough cap space to just sign Brewer and Martin. It then would seem like the best option for them.

Yeah and that seems like a very realistic option for them then. I could see a trade happening if it was;

Spurs Receive
Andrei Kirilenko

Spurs Give
Matt Bonner
1st Round Pick
Cash


Minny Receives
Matt Bonner
Player x worth $1m or less
Cash to offset buyout of player x
1st round pick

Minny Give
S&T Andrei Kirilenko
JJ Barea


Additional Team With Cap Space (Charlotte? Dallas) Receives
JJ Barea

Additional Team Give
Player x worth $1m or less


Maybe some fine tuning... but that could be the basic crux of the deal.

[bluebellmaniac]

Bruno, what is your take on these numbers. I have the known numbers from Sham's inserted and I'm using the average for Manu, though his first year should be less. I'm assuming we sign Manu first to reduce his $19M cap hold then use the existing $7.5M cap hold for Splitter. I also assume we renounce Horry, Vaughn, etc as listed on Sham's page.

Am I making any obvious mistake?



Player
2013-14
Notes
Actual Salaries


Manu Ginobili*
$6,746,988
* = not confirmed, using Bruno's number
$6,746,988


Tony Parker
$12,500,000

$12,500,000


Marco Belinelli*

* = assumes Room Exception, will be signed after AK acquisition
$2,652,000


Tim Duncan
$10,361,446

$10,361,446


Boris Diaw
$4,702,500

$4,702,500


Tiago Splitter*
$7,493,600
* = Cap Hold, Actual around $9M
$9,000,000


Matt Bonner
$3,945,000

$3,945,000


Danny Green
$3,762,500

$3,762,500


Kawhi Leonard
$1,887,840

$1,887,840


Nando De Colo
$1,463,000

$1,463,000


Patrick Mills
$1,133,950

$1,133,950


Cory Joseph
$1,120,920

$1,120,920


Aron Baynes
$788,872

$788,872


Total salaries:
$56,159,628

$60,318,028


Salary Cap*
$58,679,000
* = just announced cap numbers
$58,679,000


Salary Cap Space
$2,772,384

($1,386,016)


Matt Bonner + NDC Savings
$5,408,000
If MB and NDC somehow are not on the roster (Amnesty, trade, etc)
Total Salary w AK


Avail Sal Cap + 100k*
$8,280,384
* <-- What we can offer AK47 if we renounce everyone, dump MB and NDC salaries (somehow) and get him via a S & T.
$68,345,400

[bluebellmaniac]

Yeah and that seems like a very realistic option for them then. I could see a trade happening if it was;

Utah Give
S&T Andrei Kirilenko


Under the new CBA, AK can only do a S&T with the team he was on last season. So it would have to be through Minny. Minny would have to play nice with us in order for this to happen. Doesn't look like they are amicable to it at the moment. Hopefully just playing hardball for a slightly better deal from us, but are willing to help us out.

[mosdef17]

Yeah shit I meant Minny not Utah.. My brain is fried!

[td4mvp2k]

:clap

[bluebellmaniac]

So without a S & T, if we dump Bonner and trade NDC, we can straight up sign AK47 under the normal salary cap for $7,690,204 (after 1 roster charge, hopefully we don't need to reduce this by 2 roster charges), or for $8,280,384 with a trade.

[Bruno]

So without a S & T, if we dump Bonner and trade NDC, we can straight up sign AK47 under the normal salary cap for $7,690,204 (after 1 roster charge, hopefully we don't need to reduce this by 2 roster charges), or for $8,280,384 with a trade.

You need to add 2 rosters charges for a cap space signing. Spurs will have 10 players/cap holds (Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Green, Leonard, mills, Joseph and Baynes) and they must have 12 players/cap hold.

For a S&T, 1 roster cap hold must be added.

Basically, It's $7.2M for a signing and $7.8M for an "empty" S&T. If you salary dump Mills to, it will add $0.6M to these numbers.

[bluebellmaniac]

You need to add 2 rosters charges for a cap space signing. Spurs will have 10 players/cap holds (Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Green, Leonard, mills, Joseph and Baynes) and they must have 12 players/cap hold.

For a S&T, 1 roster cap hold must be added.

Basically, It's $7.2M for a signing and $7.8M for an "empty" S&T. If you salary dump Mills to, it will add $0.6M to these numbers.

I was hoping that on the S & T that it would be considered simultaneous and since the ending roster would have 12, we wouldn't get a roster charge on that one.

It seems ridiculous that for the straight up FA signing that the 2nd roster charge isn't rolled into his salary.

Thanks Bruno, I'll update that post with the roster charges added. I think it helps everyone understand the situation when they see real numbers laid out.

[objective]

and of course that's only if they are using the ROOM on Belinelli and not spending 2 million a year on Pendergraph.

:lol

Otherwise, Belinelli and Pendergraph line up perfectly to use up the rest of the capspace and the room and calling it a season.

[Bruno]

I was hoping that on the S & T that it would be considered simultaneous and since the ending roster would have 12, we wouldn't get a roster charge on that one.

In a S&T, only the ending roster matters and it must be below the cap+$100K. I just have the ending roster with 11 players (the 10 players given above + Kirilenko).

[bluebellmaniac]

.

[Bruno]

and of course that's only if they are using the ROOM on Belinelli and not spending 2 million a year on Pendergraph.

:lol


Yep, it's basically assuming McDonald screw up in his Pendergraph contract report which seems unlikely.

[SpursSerb]

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

Well let us pray then

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/bm~pix/91617137~s600x600.jpg

[Johnny RIngo]

Sounds like Manu fucked the Spurs hard this summer. Destroyed their chances of championship last season and continuing to do so this season. Going to laugh so much when his annual injury results in him missing 40+ games. Mr. Argentina doesn't seem to understand the meaning of sacrifice like Tim Duncan does..

[Russo21]

11 mil this season for manu/bonner lol so much for 'best front office in the NBA' Shithouse offseason. Cost us a real shot at Kirilenko by the looks of it. :ihit

[cd98]

Any chance a player like Manu gives up a little money after the fact to get Kirilenko. Knowing the Spurs are close might help.

[benefactor]

Disappointing. Hopefully they can resuscitate talks and find a way to make things work.

[bluebellmaniac]

Bruno, if we sign AK47 via a S & T for $7.8M and end up $100k over the salary cap (Minny would get a TPE and a draft pick and we'd amnesty Bonner and send NDC to a 3rd team), would the MLE then kick in? Then we could sign Belinelli and Pendergraph via the MLE? ... still looking for ways...

A straight up salary cap signing is unworkable and off the table at this point with the Pendergraph agreement...

[spursnatic]

1. If Manu takes less money, the Spurs could have fit AK47 under the cap without relying on the sign-and-trade.

2. Well, at least we now know officially that AK47 was the main target.

3. Could there be any life here? Could Woj/Ludden be floating this rumor to try to nudge the T-Wolves into action? Eh ... probably not.

4. $8-9M person is a lot of Kirilenko. I'd be more comfortable at ~$7M range.

5. If the Spurs were active in sign-and-trade talks and were willing to give up assets, I wonder if they'll move on to another target...Manu?..Fuck Splitter sorry ass is who robbed us..Me personally, I would've let him sign elsewhere?

[purist]

Spurs fans turn on their own do easily.must be the "new" fan; old school fans seem to have more loyalty and are less knee jerk reactionary. Seems like many of you would be happier with mark Cuban as owner/GM.

[elemento]

Pretty disappointing tbh

Whoever says AK would not help much is flat out lying. He would be a major addition.

[bluebellmaniac]

My latest proposal would look like this...



Player
2013-14
Notes
Actual Salaries


Manu Ginobili*
$6,746,988
* = not confirmed, using Bruno's numbers
$6,746,988


Tony Parker
$12,500,000

$12,500,000


Marco Belinelli*

* = signed after AK47… with MLE
$2,652,000


Tim Duncan
$10,361,446

$10,361,446


Boris Diaw
$4,702,500

$4,702,500


Tiago Splitter*
$7,493,600
* = Cap Hold, Actual around $9M
$9,000,000


Matt Bonner
$3,945,000




Danny Green
$3,762,500

$3,762,500


Kawhi Leonard
$1,887,840

$1,887,840


Nando De Colo
$1,463,000




Patrick Mills
$1,133,950

$1,133,950


Cory Joseph
$1,120,920

$1,120,920


Aron Baynes
$788,872

$788,872


Roster Charge
$490,180




Jeff Pendergraph

* = signed after AK47… with MLE
$2,000,000


Total salaries:
$56,396,796

$56,657,016


Salary Cap
$58,679,000

$58,679,000


Salary Cap Space
$2,282,204

$2,021,984


Matt Bonner + NDC Savings
$5,408,000
If MB and NDC not on the roster (Amnesty, trade, etc)









Avail Sal Cap + 100k*: S&T
$7,790,204
* <-- What we can offer AK47 if we renounce everyone and get him via a S & T.




$58,779,000
Salary with AK47
$64,447,220




Total MLE Spent
$4,652,000




MLE left over ($5.15M)
$498,000

[milkyway21]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--spurs--talks-for-andrei-kirilenko-end-without-deal-052544949.html

The San Antonio Spurs' exploration of acquiring free-agent forward Andrei Kirilenko in a sign-and-trade agreement with the Minnesota Timberwolves has passed without completion, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

San Antonio envisioned Kirilenko, a 6-foot-9 forward, as an ideal fit for its system. He's a gifted scorer, passer and shot blocker, and is able to defend multiple positions.

:madrun

what? http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af26/Mamma4ever/Gifs%20for%20Blogging/angry/bth_shocked.gif

that's why I like him to be a Spur too.....

I knew Flip would never make this to happen..

The Spurs snagged Rasho in 2003 from them. Leaving Minny no choice but to sign Olowokandi.
Michael Finley nearly signed with Minnesota too, despite invites from KG, he ultimately chose to leave Dallas for defending champion San Antonio in 2005.

Both won rings with the Spurs.

Now, with AK47 in our team we will be definitely be top contender, whether TD's minutes will be limited or not. :lol

I am really disappointed...tbh

[bluebellmaniac]

The possibility isn't officially over until Minny officially signs Martin. Until then, it's a possibility...

[Bruno]

Bruno, if we sign AK47 via a S & T for $7.8M and end up $100k over the salary cap (Minny would get a TPE and a draft pick and we'd amnesty Bonner and send NDC to a 3rd team), would the MLE then kick in? Then we could sign Belinelli and Pendergraph via the MLE? ... still looking for ways...

The MLE won't kick in, it will be the room exception.

[bluebellmaniac]

The MLE won't kick in, it will be the room exception.

Crap... so even though we'd be over the cap by $100k, it'd still be the room exception instead of the MLE... Throw the towel in...

[milkyway21]

:cry

[bluebellmaniac]

The Pendergraph deal must have happened after it became apparent that Minny would not be doing us any favors...

[Jordanobili2320]

While I appreciate the Spurs main target being AK47 and recognize he would have been a near perfect fit its really not the end of the world. We were a couple free throws from a ring, it doesn't mean we need that much of an upgrade. Getting Marco was enough for me at it being a successful offseason. He is a great scorer and good enough defender. The perfect spark we needed for our second unit. I really think we had a great offseason. Marco addresses some needs and will prove to be a great fit. You can't get everything, no matter hoiw nice it would be...

[Bruno]

To me, what makes no sense at all is Spurs giving $2M per year to Pendergraph.

I just can't imagine Spurs negotiating a S&T for $8M/$9M per year for Kirilenko and removing the ability to sign him for $7M/$8M per year through a straight up signing with cap space for Jeff Pendergraph, the projected 5th PF/C. The logical obvious logical way for Spurs would have been to work on a S&T and in case it didn't work, try to convince Kirilenko to sign for a little less with a classic cap space signing. It would be crazy if Spurs haven't done like that.

It would be so much more logical if the Pendergraph was a min contract and that McDonald just mixed up total salary with salary per year.

[milkyway21]

I wonder who were the Spurs involved in that supposed to be sign & trade ? Bonner? Neal?

[bluebellmaniac]

I wonder who were the Spurs involved in that supposed to be sign & trade ? Bonner? Neal?

For Minny, they would only have wanted a TPE and draft picks. They'd want the cap room to sign K Martin, but could also have accomplished signing Martin via a S&T using the TPE they generated with the AK trade.

For the Spurs, most likely Bonner would have been amnestied and NDC would have to go to any team willing to take him for a TPE. That would be the most logical sequence. Neal is already off the books and would be a whole separate issue.

[bluebellmaniac]

To me, what makes no sense at all is Spurs giving $2M per year to Pendergraph.

I just can't imagine Spurs negotiating a S&T for $8M/$9M per year for Kirilenko and removing the ability to sign him for $7M/$8M per year through a straight up signing with cap space for Jeff Pendergraph, the projected 5th PF/C. The logical obvious logical way for Spurs would have been to work on a S&T and in case it didn't work, try to convince Kirilenko to sign for a little less with a classic cap space signing. It would be crazy if Spurs haven't done like that.

It would be so much more logical if the Pendergraph was a min contract and that McDonald just mixed up total salary with salary per year.

That's what I mean, it would only make sense if we knew there would be no working with Minny on a deal. So this deal was dead a while ago.

[Twisted_Dawg]

1. If Manu takes less money, the Spurs could have fit AK47 under the cap without relying on the sign-and-trade.

In Manu's mind he did take less money, 50% to be exact. Why would Manu have taken even less money if we offered him $7 million? If you were applying for a job and the firm offered you $100K, would you tell them, "You know, I'd be happy to work for 75K." That very bad contract just given to Manu is all on the Spurs. Manu had little if any leverage. After his horrid playoffs performance capped by the finals nightmare, no other team was going to sign him for much less than $3 million per year. And $3 mill per is what we should have paid him. His "Thank You" contract was his last contract that paid him $14 mill per while he wore out his body playing for Argentina.


Don't forget if they had waived Bonner they'd have been able to sign him straight up as well; regardless of Manu's deal. Still, can't help but be pissed at Manu's deal. Dude better produce. Doubtful he will. His body and mind can no longer play this game.


Goes to show that Manu doesn't believe in the "1 simple price" that Gunn offers.. Don't blame Manu, blame the FO for that horrible mistake.



Manu?..Fuck Splitter sorry ass is who robbed us..Me personally, I would've let him sign elsewhere? Had we not signed Splitter, we would have had to sign another big for the same or more money. We didn't need to resign Manu. We had options and leverage.

[coachmac87]

I think minny is playing chicken...they know they have the spurs by the balls. Probably asking for something spurs were hesitant. Both sides will probably sleep on it. Spurs may look to plan b and see what's available..but at the end of day spurs may give in to what minny wants.

IMO AK will be a Spur this afternoon

[bluebellmaniac]

Would Pendergraph's be the bi-Annual exception?

[Mal]

Bruno is going hard on Spurs` front office :toast

[eDizzle20]

At least now there is closure. No more what-if's.

[Spursfanfromafar]

To me, what makes no sense at all is Spurs giving $2M per year to Pendergraph.

I just can't imagine Spurs negotiating a S&T for $8M/$9M per year for Kirilenko and removing the ability to sign him for $7M/$8M per year through a straight up signing with cap space for Jeff Pendergraph, the projected 5th PF/C. The logical obvious logical way for Spurs would have been to work on a S&T and in case it didn't work, try to convince Kirilenko to sign for a little less with a classic cap space signing. It would be crazy if Spurs haven't done like that.

It would be so much more logical if the Pendergraph was a min contract and that McDonald just mixed up total salary with salary per year.

There has been no independent corroboration of McDonald's claims on Pendergraph's salary. The fact also remains that McDonald was himself speculating on the salary figures/ MLE etc a day before he published the article (interestingly, Bruno had found fault with McDonald's lack of sources the same day :)) on Spurstalk and the very next day we saw McDonald coming up with a scoop on a Spurs' new contract for the first time in this offseason).

But that said, Woj is much much more competent and if he says that the Spurs have ended their AK47 quest, I think there must be some degree of finality to it. It is most likely that Flip simply didn't want to honour AK47's request for S&T and was confident that Kevin Martin could be signed with cap space and Brewer could be obtained through dumping Ridnour/Barea elsewhere. Stein meanwhile has some corroboration on Ridnour -

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)11h (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/354764800477241344)
Hearing: Wolves still chasing Corey Brewer, trying hard to trade Luke Ridnour to create more spending room or sell Denver on sign-and-trade

In many ways, therefore, the Spurs FO seems to have did its best to see if it could get AK47 without having to hamstring Manu's quest for a more-than-reasonable contract.

Maybe if they can dump Bonner somewhere in the next few days, they can still sign AK47. Lets see.

[elec99]

I think bottom line is that Minn wants to compete for FAs in 2014, which means they wont take back players, just picks. Do we have any picks to give??
Seriously, if AK does go for a sign and trade it'll be for picks which at this point seems like a grand deal.
May have to involve a 3rd team?

AK to SAS
MN gets pick(s)
3rd team gets the players MN didnt want, we're speculating they would have been our guards, bonner, etc

[Marcus Bryant]

Pretty cool to pass judgement using info from 3rd and 4th hand sources.

All we have so far is that a S&T is off with Minnesota and reporters quoting contract amounts.

The former does not necessarily preclude the addition of Kirilenko and the trustworthiness of the latter is one of the primary reasons.

Amnestying Bonner would not be preferable to having someone take his contract, so of course you try to work out a S&T.

Patience.

[benefactor]

At least we have confirmation of mutual interest between the Spurs and Kirilenko. Maybe some of the cost cutting moves mentioned can be made and a deal outside of an S&T can be reached.

[raybies]

I wonder what we offered

[Mal]

Atlant can take CoJo, Blair, Bonner. They probably need to add some more salary.

[milkyway21]

For Minny, they would only have wanted a TPE and draft picks. They'd want the cap room to sign K Martin, but could also have accomplished signing Martin via a S&T using the TPE they generated with the AK trade.

For the Spurs, most likely Bonner would have been amnestied and NDC would have to go to any team willing to take him for a TPE. That would be the most logical sequence. Neal is already off the books and would be a whole separate issue.

well, I hope they can unload Bonner

AK47 could have been a welcome addition, but this is already like not a possible signing.

GSW just agreed to terms with free-agent center Jermaine O'Neal for one-year, $2 million contract , I was really hoping AK47 & the FO could have come to agree @ a lower $ with the Spurs, who have shown willingness to sign long terms with him..

[elec99]

A 3rd team in need of PGs will be needed, and whatever MN takes will be in the form that does not add salary such as picks and the rights to players.
I think it's good that AK wants to be with a contender otherwise he'd be signed to a bottom feeder right now.

[Bruno]

354943017368555520

:prayingdog:

[milkyway21]

There has been no independent corroboration of McDonald's claims on Pendergraph's salary. The fact also remains that McDonald was himself speculating on the salary figures/ MLE etc a day before he published the article (interestingly, Bruno had found fault with McDonald's lack of sources the same day :)) on Spurstalk and the very next day we saw McDonald coming up with a scoop on a Spurs' new contract for the first time in this offseason).

But that said, Woj is much much more competent and if he says that the Spurs have ended their AK47 quest, I think there must be some degree of finality to it. It is most likely that Flip simply didn't want to honour AK47's request for S&T and was confident that Kevin Martin could be signed with cap space and Brewer could be obtained through dumping Ridnour/Barea elsewhere. Stein meanwhile has some corroboration on Ridnour - ...



:wow.. nice to know AK47's interest to come to S.A.

[xmas1997]

:wow.. nice to know AK47's interest to come to S.A.


I figured he might be since he and TP have maybe been in contact with each other.

[Fabbs]

we'll win the title with AK-47

[Leetonidas]

Fucking Ginobili, how can anyone defend his bullshit contract now?? :pctoss

Hopefully something can still be worked out. Too bad Kirilenko won't come for a 1 year minimum and so we can re-sign him at a much higher rate next season. Oh well. :depressed

[Leetonidas]

To sign Kevin Martin, Minny will need cap space. If they keep Kirilenko bird rights, which they must if they want to S&T him later, of if they have Bonner+filler in their payroll, they won't have the money to sign Kevin Martin.

Right now, a Kirilenko S&T isn't dead. It will be when Minny will officially sign Kevin Martin.
One can hope Minny will have today a last minute change of heart because, if Denver stick with refusing a Brewer S&T, a Kirilenko/Martin S&T is the only way for Minny to also get Brewer.

Presti is a former Spur, so maybe he'll play hardball with Minny and get it done, though I doubt he wants to help improve his biggest competition in the conference, former team or not :lol

[Darkwaters]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6KPMYaowgbsZiYFxIvRlwW2KncS_JZ HxtKi8qaipeYLz6IE_tPA

[Bruno]

354946083551576065
:prayingdog:

[Mal]

:wow.. nice to know AK47's interest to come to S.A.

Probably most euro players would want to end in SA, while Gino, Duncan, Parker and Pop are there.

[milkyway21]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6KPMYaowgbsZiYFxIvRlwW2KncS_JZ HxtKi8qaipeYLz6IE_tPA

:lol Darkwaters

[benefactor]

354946083551576065
:prayingdog:
http://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/praying-cat.jpg

[xmas1997]

I'm really getting sick and tired of constantly reading on here all the idiots and retards who are blaming Manu instead of the FO for his new contract, which by all accounts of the more knowledgeable posters here, is a more than reasonable and fair one!!!

[Leetonidas]

354946083551576065
:prayingdog:

Oh shit. That's the only thing it could me...c'mon RC, get it done!

[Spursfanfromafar]

:wow.. nice to know AK47's interest to come to S.A.

It is not confirmed if AK47 wanted a S&T specifically to the Spurs. But reports do suggest that AK47's camp has requested a S&T specifically.

[milkyway21]

I hope they can sign AK47, just for Duncan?
Kind of I am sorry for benching him in the last minutes of game 6?

He deserves it after so many sacrifices he had done for this team not mentioning the 50% salary discount in his latest contract (1/3 of Kobe's), so they can sign Green & Mills. :lol

[cd98]

Minny always the goat in trades. I bet they are scared to make any deals.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Anyone who says the Spurs aren't trying to improve is retarded so there's no point to silencing them.

[xmas1997]

He deserves it after so many sacrifices he had done for this team not mentioning the 50% salary discount in his latest contract (1/3 of Kobe's), so they can sign Green & Mills. :lol

Of course he does. Anyone with any sense at all can see that.

[xmas1997]

Obviously.

[Keepin' it real]

Manu sticking it to Spursfans just one more time this year. He make me not want to shop at HEB tbh.

Blasphemy.

[Knoxxx]

It is not confirmed if AK47 wanted a S&T specifically to the Spurs. But reports do suggest that AK47's camp has requested a S&T specifically.

2+2=?

[Leetonidas]

I'm really getting sick and tired of constantly reading on here all the idiots and retards who are blaming Manu instead of the FO for his new contract, which by all accounts of the more knowledgeable posters here, is a more than reasonable and fair one!!!

:lol retard. Tim and Tony took under their market value to help the team compete, Gino did not and he deserves to be blasted for that because of the flexibility him taking 2 million less would give us. The FO had no other choice but to re-sign him, everyone knows that, but he did us no favors and he deserves criticism for that. Get his cock out of your mouth

[xmas1997]

:lol retard. Tim and Tony took under their market value to help the team compete, Gino did not and he deserves to be blasted for that because of the flexibility him taking 2 million less would give us. The FO had no other choice but to re-sign him, everyone knows that, but he did us no favors and he deserves criticism for that. Get his cock out of your mouth


Get a life, and while you're at it, learn how to comprehend what you read on here!
Obviously you never got past 1st grade if that is what your conception of the events are!:lol

[Captivus]

This story doesnt seem to end.

[Leetonidas]

dude makes a shit ton of money just by virtue of being a spanish speaker in San Antonio, he gets all kinds of advertising ventures. he could've been a little less selfish, especially since he got paid 14 million fucking dollars last year to shit the bed when it mattered the most

[Leetonidas]

Get a life, and while you're at it, learn how to comprehend what you read on here!

16 year old faggot :lol

:cry stop criticizing ginobili :cry

[bluebellmaniac]

This story doesnt seem to end.

Should end today, one way or another...

[xmas1997]

16 year old faggot :lol

:cry stop criticizing ginobili :cry

That's your response? Anyone who can read can see who the idiot is. I don't need to point it out, it's pretty obvious.

I have been following the more knowledgeable posters views on AK47, and on Manu, on here, but can't help reading the occasional idiotic post and getting tired of the same old rhetorical bashing. All you can say to those idiots are "get a life"' and maybe some education would help a little too!:lol

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs just need to find a suitor to take on their out going contracts more than likely Bonner/Cojo/Blair/De Colo.

Spurs can easily involve Atl in this trade as they need bench players and getting players that are already experience in the Spurs system would be a huge plus for them. I am sure the Spurs could workout a trade signing Kirilenko to a 4 yr 32 mil deal, Atl gets Bonner/De Colo or Cojo perhaps, Spurs could send Minny 2 2nd round picks in next year's draft. That would be an ideal trade for all 3 teams.

That is the reason why nobody from these teams have been officially signed at this point. It quite obvious that quite a few S&T are going to be happening today.

[CGD]

All eyes turn to the Kevin Martin deal.

Minni just always seems one or two steps behind in their thought process. Of course if you're going to be interested in a player like Brewer while having committed to KMart, then of course there has to be a plan to pay for it, smh...

[Leetonidas]

Not really. Your blind cock sucking of Ginobili and trying to blame to FO for him being a jew when there were no other options to replace his role is fucking retarded, quit being a little bitch because someone calls out Ginobili you little pussy. And what's your response? "get a life, im too much of a faggot to dispute anything so im just gonna call you dumb :cry"


fucking faggot, go learn some shit about ball and come back to me when you get some hair on your nuts, bitch.

[Leetonidas]

seriously, do you have a take besides :cry it's to FO's fault! :cry because if not its obviously you who doesn't know shit

also no one is arguing that Manu's contract isn't "fair." like i said, he got market value, learn to read dumbass. the point is the other two thirds of the big three, the players that are actually much better than Manu at this point, took under market value on their contracts. Parker should be getting Max money and Tim should be getting close to it as well. Manu at 7M is not doing the FO any favors especially after the last contract he had. quit being a blind homer, open your fucking eyes and don't just agree with Nono or other argie posters, they are biased. Bruno and posters like DPG (so fucking respectable :cry) agree that Manu's contract is not "fair and reasonable"

[Spur|n|Austin]

Should end today, one way or another...

I think so too; I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think lil' Flip has plans to de-salt his ass to benefit the Spurs.

[milkyway21]

There were possible combinations of Spurs assets that appealed to the T'wolves, but ultimately Minnesota was unable -- or unwilling -- to take back the contracts on what could've been an $8 million to $9 million annual salary agreement for Kirilenko, league sources said.

Bonner + ? +?

[mountainballer]

Too bad Kirilenko won't come for a 1 year minimum and so we can re-sign him at a much higher rate next season.

jezz. you are not exactly familiar with CBA rules, are you? but you would know how to run a franchise. Oh well.

[xmas1997]

Leeontonidas, you're not worth the effort, sorry! Easier to just "ignore you and your takes". Bye bye.

[Keepin' it real]

I don't see how the trade would have made sense. AK wasn't going to start over Leonard and I doubt he wants to come of the bench.

I didn't see anyone answer this ...

[cd021]

Taking a fully guaranteed Bonner would be difficult for Minny because it would likely put them in luxury tax territory given what they still want to do (Brewer and Pekovic). I can only see a S&T for Kirilenko is Bonner's contract is still about $1M guaranteed.

And it would just be so great if McDonald is wrong on Pendergraph's contract. His source could have said him $2M and he take it like $2M per year while it was $2M total. A 2 years min contract is about $2M total.

It seems odd that they would give him $2 million a year, I was thinking closer to the vet min. ($988,864 for his NBA experience). Also Beli's deal could be $5.6 million, as was first reported, meaning he would get $2.6 or $2.7 million his 1st year as opposed to $3 million. I don't think that helps a ton but...

[Leetonidas]

Leeontonidas, you're not worth the effort, sorry! Easier to just "ignore you and your takes". Bye bye.

mad :lol :cry i have no rebuttals so im going to ignore you :cry gg faggot

learn how to spell my name correctly next time as well dipshit

[bluebellmaniac]

This story doesnt seem to end.


Bonner + ? +?
If Minny wants to sign Martin they can't take back any contracts. We just have to make room for AK by amnestying Bonner and moving DeColo. Moving Mills or Cojo doesn't make sense with their salaries so low. The only things Minny could use are picks and cash.

[milkyway21]

It seems odd that they would give him $2 million a year, I was thinking closer to the vet min. ($988,864 for his NBA experience). Also Beli's deal could be $5.6 million, as was first reported, meaning he would get $2.6 or $2.7 million his 1st year as opposed to $3 million. I don't think that helps a ton but...

Jeff Pendegraph salary in 2012-13 was @ $ 1.5M already...

his salary contract with the Pacers for 2013-14 season is @ $2M, also for 2014-15 season :wakeup

[Jordanobili2320]

Going into next season with 1 SF would be a disaster.

well, we have Marco Belli. So disaster averted.

[xmas1997]

Apparently he is ok coming off the bench as long as he is with a contender. IMHO he was probably asked this or else they would not have continued to go after him because no one wants a cancer in the locker room.

[Leetonidas]

Jeff Pendegraph salary in 2012 was @ $ 1.5M already...

True but his play in the season and numbers didn't warrant a salary increase imo. Seems weird the FO would give 2 million a year to someone putting up 5 and 4 or whatever he had last year

[DPG21920]

Again, based on the knowledge we have, this all makes little sense. As MB said, the Spurs aren't idiots and we have to trust that if AK is what they really wanted, they wouldn't ruin their chances because of Pendereach.

[Mal]

As MB said, the Spurs aren't idiots and we have to trust that if AK is what they really wanted, they wouldn't ruin their chances because of Pendereach.

They still can have an agreement with Bonner, about delaying his contract guarantees.

[xmas1997]

mad :lol :cry i have no rebuttals so im going to ignore you :cry gg faggot

learn how to spell my name correctly next time as well dipshit


What? Did you finally get a CLUE that your Manu bashing was getting tiresome to most of us? Thank God!

[ffadicted]

Give it up boys, it ain't happening. This offseason is a lot of ?'s tbqh, I can't say I understand what CIA Pop/RC is doing

[bklynspursfan]

Dan Barreiro ‏@DanBarreiroKFAN (https://twitter.com/DanBarreiroKFAN)16m (https://twitter.com/DanBarreiroKFAN/status/354956325731565571)
What I'm hearing: Several teams, incl OKC, need to be involved to create sign-and-trade scenario on Martin, bringing Brewer here.


Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson (https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson)5m (https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/354959086011432962)
The Kevin Martin/Corey Brewer #Twolves (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Twolves&src=hash) sign-&-trade scenarios are in part being pushed by Relativity Sports. They rep both Martin & Brewer.

[xmas1997]

I don't know, but it appears the Spurs aren't out of it yet. Grasping at straws, but keeping fingers crossed anyway.

[TheWriter]

Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash

[xmas1997]

Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash

I hope we don't lose any picks in this. We shouldn't.

It should all be over by the end of the day one way or another.
Spurs still have a good team, but could be so much better with AK47 aboard.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I hope we don't lose any picks in this. We shouldn't.

I think that was a hypothetical or wishful post...

[TheWriter]

I hope we don't lose any picks in this. We shouldn't.

To land AK? I wouldn't have a problem trading a pick.

[bluebellmaniac]

This story doesnt seem to end.


Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash
Any other player we receive reduces the amount we can pay AK, dollar for dollar. We can offer $7.8M. If we take anyone else in the trade, AK is essentially paying their salary out of his pocket. So it's a slim to none chance we take anyone else but AK.

[cd021]

Jeff Pendegraph salary in 2012-13 was @ $ 1.5M already...

his salary contract with the Pacers for 2013-14 season is @ $2M, also for 2014-15 season :wakeup

Why does his previous salary have anything to do with his current? He was buried on the bench last season, just seems like a slight overpay for a team apparently trying to acquire a top FA.

[TheWriter]

Any other player we receive reduces the amount we can pay AK, dollar for dollar. We can offer $7.8M. If we take anyone else in the trade, AK is essentially paying their salary out of his pocket. So it's a slim to none chance we take anyone else but AK.

Then Jj or like go to Denver.

[xmas1997]

I think that was a hypothetical or wishful post...


Lol, definitely wishful at best.

[milkyway21]

Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash

shocks I am not really into parting with some of our guys...Bonner or Neal okay with me...


the team chemistry here is really good. with so many names, are they shopping that Spur with towel too or de Colo?

[Russo21]

Again, based on the knowledge we have, this all makes little sense. As MB said, the Spurs aren't idiots and we have to trust that if AK is what they really wanted, they wouldn't ruin their chances because of Pendereach. Benching the GOAT in the final possession of a closeout Finals game? Spurs head coach is an idiot that's for sure.

[xmas1997]

To land AK? I wouldn't have a problem trading a pick.

I wouldn't either, but I hope we don't especially from the next draft which is supposed to be loaded.

[cd98]

To land AK? I wouldn't have a problem trading a pick.

Disagree. We will be in full rebuilding mode in two years. Giving away draft picks for a 32 year old would be bad. If it was a second pick, no problem, but let's keep our first round picks, especially for next year's draft.

[bluebellmaniac]

This story doesnt seem to end.


shocks I am not really into parting with some of our guys...Bonner or Neal okay with me...


the team chemistry here is really good. with so many names, are they shopping that Spur with towel too or de Colo?

Shopping Mills instead of NDC reduces what we can offer AK by about $300k. So it needs to be NDC just to give a reasonable offer.

[Capt Bringdown]

Spurs don't really need another foreign softie.

[Knoxxx]

Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash

I don't see the incentive here for OKC to help us (their chief rivals) get AK while they lose Martin and only get a trade exception.

[bluebellmaniac]

I switched to my mobile and now every post I make quotes Captivus... ????? Sorry about that, I'm not doing so by choice.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Here come the Manu haters!

[xmas1997]

Here come the Manu haters!


Oh geez, do you have to egg them on any more than they already are?:lol:nope

[Knoxxx]

Spurs don't really need another foreign softie.

Kirilenko has a 7 foot 4" wingspan with elite shotblocking and passing skills. Your right he would probably just suck on the Spurs though. :rolleyes

[TheWriter]

I don't see the incentive here for OKC to help us (their chief rivals) get AK while they lose Martin and only get a trade exception.

Because it doesn't matter. Okc wants a trade exception. Minny can sign km outright but Okc wants the trade exception in a sign and trade but Minny doesn't want to do a sign and trade. Minny wants to s&t for brewer but Denver doesn't want to. Spurs want to sign and trade for Ak but Minny doesn't want to.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Oh geez, do you have to egg them on any more than they already are?:lol:nope

They already struck earlier (on the 1st page). I'm just a little late pointing it out :lol hope I didn't make them want to come back...:depressed

[Knoxxx]

Here come the Manu haters!

LOL at the LeBron flopping jpg video. He acted like Manu knocked him out cold!

[TheWriter]

354968403552903169

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Kevin Martin 100 percent still headed to Wolves. I'm told Martin agreed to delay signing to give 'Sota every avenue to get Corey Brewer, too