Solve the terrorist problem in this thead: Manny NBA Dan and anyone else.

[whottt]

I'd like to hear some solutions(other than what we are already doing) to the terorist problem...all I hear is a bunch of people bitching about what we are doing now.

No sniping the opinions given in this thread because I want to see all the ideas before people go on the defensive. And I don't really want to hear the opinions of the board conservatives because we are already doing it their way more or less.



#1.What should we do about terrorists within our borders.

#2.What should we do about terrorism in the middle east.

#3.What should we do if there is another terrorist attack on this soil.

#4.What should we do if a terrorist detonates a nuclear bomb in a major US city and there is the threat of other attacks.




No blaming Bush or Clinton...just if you were President and had a mandate...what would you do...


No over simplified ideas like leave the middle east...because that's not going to happen because there would be a world wide economic catastrophe if we did so..and we would haven't have the luxury of sitting on our asses talking on a message board to discuss it. On top of that...many countries do want us in the middle east.

No terrorist dicksucking ideas either...the war has to be won. America backed it when they re-elected Bush. So did the Brits.


I just want to see the solutions of the board malcontents laid out in a simple and coherent format.

Then after everyone that wants to has given their solutions...you can pile on them.

[clubalien]

send them flowers
Love will conquer all

[whottt]

And by the way...

When Osama declared war on the US he cited three main reasons...

#1.The suffering of the Iraqi people under the UN sanctions(IE Chirac, Schroeder, Putin and Anan's slush fund).

Iraqi people are no longer under sanctions and the popularly elected government wants us there for the time being.

That condition no longer exists.


#2. Infidels in Saudi Arabia...now, aside from the fact that we were there to defend them from Saddam...at the request and acceptance of their government...

We have virtually no military presence there any longer now that Saddam as gone and we are diminishing it.

That condition no longer exists as it did.


#3. The support and aid for Israel...now aside from the fact that we give about 10 times as much money to Arab nations...

Israel is erecting a wall that will basically render it impossible for terrorist murder Israeli civillians, thus eliminating the Israeli need to retaliate.

So that condition no longer exists either...or it won't very shortly.


So then...why are we still at war with the terrorists anyway? Why are they still targeting this country?

Stuff to remember as you come up with the solution.

[clubalien]

Infidels AKA expatriats AKA americans operate part of saudis oil, the switch o saduis running it hasn't taken over
so Infidels actual are still there

[MannyIsGod]

#1.What should we do about terrorists within our borders.
No easy solution to this. I hold civil liberties just as highly in regard as I do safety. If I have my freedoms taken away, then safety means a lot less.

In this manner, I think using Israel as a model on internal security is a must. Compared to them, all of our systems are a fucking joke. Inconvinience is not a violation of ones rights.



#2.What should we do about terrorism in the middle east.
Kill them, what else? And I'm serious about that. Now, if you want to ask what should we do as a country to prevent the spread of terrorism, that is something entirely different.

I don't agree with what we did in Iraq, but its too late to get out and erase the past. We need to establish that government as quickly as possible and leave them with a strong security force to establish control.

More importantly, we MUST move away from a dependence on oil. You can argue all you want about our motivation for actions in the region but it all stems back to a dependence on the oil that is under that sand. If we don't have to protect an interest in that area (oil) we can get the fuck out.

To further what I believe.....

http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb50.pdf

Does U.S. Intervention Overseas Breed Terrorism? The Historical Record


by Ivan Eland


Ivan Eland is director of defense policy studies at the Cato Institute.


Executive Summary

According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century begins. High-level U.S. officials have acknowledged that terrorists are now more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons than ever before.

Yet most attention has been focused on combating terrorism by deterring and disrupting it beforehand and retaliating against it after the fact. Less attention has been paid to what motivates terrorists to launch attacks. According to the Pentagon's Defense Science Board, a strong correlation exists between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the United States. President Clinton has also acknowledged that link. The board, however, has provided no empirical data to support its conclusion. This paper fills that gap by citing many examples of terrorist attacks on the United States in retaliation for U.S. intervention overseas. The numerous incidents cataloged suggest that the United States could reduce the chances of such devastating--and potentially catastrophic--terrorist attacks by adopting a policy of military restraint overseas.






#3.What should we do if there is another terrorist attack on this soil.
If? There's no if about it, its when.

You deal with the attack and you remain focused on your long term goals on dealing with and limiting terrorism. You take a look and see where your security went wrong and you fix the problem. You make sure it is not able to happen again. You learn from your mistakes and you adapt yourself against the methods used.



#4.What should we do if a terrorist detonates a nuclear bomb in a major US city and there is the threat of other attacks.
You remove the threat. Under no circumstances do you nuke a city in retaliation. That will do nothing but add gasoline to the fire.

This is exactly why security along the border and ports of entry is really fucking important. The terrorists don't have any ICBMs or bombers they can use to attack us. It's going to have to be a covert method.

But once again, you deal with it and you protect yourself. You find those responsible and you deal with them in an appropriate manner.

Using a nuclear weapon on another city of a country not responsible for the attacks would be a mistake plain and simple.

[Spurminator]

#1.What should we do about terrorists within our borders.

Seek them out by any means necessary, within the Constitution. I don't believe that racial profiling should be out of the question, but at the same time, it should not be something we completely lean on.


#2.What should we do about terrorism in the middle east.

For one thing, make sure THEY are perceived as the enemy by Middle Eastern non-terrorists, not us. Nuking Mecca, hypothetically, would not achieve this goal. Turn their own people against them.


#3 & #4

I'm not sure that you can do anything different in "response" to an attack of any degree besides rooting out the ones who are responsible and any governments that supported them. What we CAN do is work harder to prevent them... Better border control, and a better system for keeping track of who is in the country and what they're doing here.

[The Ressurrected One]

#1-#4 Kill Them.

[Guru of Nothing]

More importantly, we MUST move away from a dependence on oil. You can argue all you want about our motivation for actions in the region but it all stems back to a dependence on the oil that is under that sand.

coughurbansprawlcough1604cough.

[spurster]

Who was responsible for 9/11? OBL and al-Queda.

Where is OBL and AQ? At least initially, we knew he was in the Afghan-Pakistan border area and a lot of AQ was there, too.

Did we do all we could to get them? No.

Is the fighting in Iraq helping to get rid of OBL and AQ? No, but we helping recruitment immensely.

Next time? Learn from our mistakes. If we learn who is responsible, we pull out all the stops to get who is responsible and cut out the sideshows.

[MannyIsGod]

coughurbansprawlcough1604cough.
Was this aimed at me as an attack on my credibility based upon my location?

[Johnny Tightlips]

i solve alotta things

[Guru of Nothing]

Was this aimed at me as an attack on my credibility based upon my location?

No, it was just food for thought.

[MannyIsGod]

Gotcha. Thats why I sought clarification.

[mookie2001]

answer to all questions

-become more conservative.

[SWC Bonfire]

answer to all questions

-become more conservative.

You forgot to include Tahoe and OnStar* in your answer.

[mookie2001]

you better be a joke...

you make Clandestino look like me

[mookie2001]

OnStar*
YES
SWC
the first poster to ever correctly write "OnStar*" on spurstalk
although not how it appears in real life, on blogs and message boards it should always appear as OnStar*
or
OnStar*

[Cant_Be_Faded]

thats an asterisk

[mookie2001]

thats why its funny


"would you let me ride in the car without OnStar*?"
"OnStar*, because I love my kids"

[Cant_Be_Faded]

in the America, Fuck Yeah song, they shoulda said

ONSTAR*!!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

I think we should look to some pontificators in an online forum, that'll do it.

[duncan_21]

Here is what I do:

1. Face the fact that terrorism can't be ended by mounting an offensive in foreign countries - so stop doing it

2. For those in the fbi that allowed the masterminds of the 911 attack to go free when they were under surveillance or in jail to be put in jail or or fired.

3. Stop fighting the never ending war in iraq, if you're really serious about stopping terrorism attacks, logically you wouldn't spend all your money on something that isn't working and help guard your borders.

4. End conflict of interest in times of war e.g. halliburton, it doesn't make me feel good when the vice president's supposedly "former" company gets a nice bid making millions off already struggling americans.

[desflood]

If I recall properly, Clinton awarded Halliburton a no-bid contract dealing with U.S. peacekeeping in the Balkans some years ago.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, Whottt?

[whottt]

Waiting on NBA Dan...


Because it ought to be good :D

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

[whottt]

I mean anyone that wants to challenge some of the plans laid out in this thread...by all means do so. Don't let me stand in the way of a good pile on.

I think I made a mistake asking people to withold criticism...it seems like it killed any heated argument potential...so I won't be making that request again...Live and learn.

My general conclusion from reading the plans laid out is that many of ya'll aren't terrorist dicksuckers as I had presumed...ya'll just like to bitch :D.

[duncan_21]

If I recall properly, Clinton awarded Halliburton a no-bid contract dealing with U.S. peacekeeping in the Balkans some years ago.

It's still a conflict of interest if halliburton was a awarded a contract while vice president cheney is in office. Believe me, I'm not a clinton lover either. I find that if you aren't a democrat or a republican you are more apt to think for yourself.

Too many people on one side or the other only listen to media that fits their political view. Case in point all the times I hear about the liberal media, bunch of bs when you see who owns the tv/radio stations.

[Nbadan]

#1.What should we do about terrorists within our borders.

Charge them and try them, but make their trials, if they are U.S. citizens, or their military tribunals if they are not, as transparent as possible. No way should we be holding a suspected U.S. citizen, who has not been officially charged with anything, like Jose Padilla, without the feds showing some of their cards as to why they feel he is a continuing threat to the U.S...

Are there latent Al-Queda terror cells still in the U.S.? I can’t say with certainty that there are not and neither can the U.S. government since the one thing the Patriot Act has not caught is a real-life terrorist, but I can say that if there is, it would be extremely difficult for terrorists to plan and find the materials and strategic training to pull off another big attack like 911 in this post-Sept 11th world. It would also be nearly impossible to catch these cells until they became activated. Once they did, they should be treated as traitors to the State. If they are truely not guilty let them prove themselves publicly.

[ATJ2003]

One major thing that I think of first concerns with Israel. This is one reason why some are radicalised. Israel has over 65 UN Resolution violations, violates the Geneva Convention (I am not sure of which Article), and has a history of human rights abuses. I realise that much people will say "this is Arab propaganda": I am Arab, I am an activist on this issue, and so I hear this criticism often....but sitings of these things can be found on any Human Rights Org website, and from speaking to Pali-refugees. If America is to have a more credible standing in the Middle East, I think that they should address this issue. Why force Iraq to comply to UN Resolutions and invade them if they do not, if Israel is not held to the same standards? My proposal for this would be to place sanctions upon Israel until they comply with International Law/UN Resolutions. In other words, to suspend financing and weapons etc given to them, until they work towards complying to Intl law, and work towards a peaceful settlement with the Palestinians. (It takes two or more to make war, and it takes two or more to make peace!)In my opinion, this would cause much Arabs to see that the USA is fair, and perhaps, more will be against terrorism. I truly feel that this issue causes much people to HATE the USA.

As for the other questions, I do not know they are very difficult questions. The version of Islaam which is followed by these who do the attacks, is very fundamental, and very strict. It's goal is to install a Muslim system of law (Shar'ia) upon the world, because it is believed that if anyone follows the laws of a man-made system, they are obeying this man-made system, making them servants to something other than God; which is strictly forbidden in Islaam. It saddens me much that they are using Islaam as a justification to attack and kill innocents: it is forbidden multiple times in the Qur'an as well as the Hadith to make war on innocents, children, elderly, women, and other believers. It seems that the ones who do these acts, only read that which they wish to read in the Qur'an.

I am going off on a tangent, but if I think of more I will respond.

[Nbadan]

#2.What should we do about terrorism in the middle east.

Well the one thing you don't do is go into a country like Iraq with guns blazing. To ease the terrorist problem, and I say ease because your never going to totally stop it, you have to first deal with the cause of the problems in the Middle East, the 50% unemployment, the lack of representation in most archaic Middle East feudal systems propped up by billions in Petrol dollars, the Madrassas that continuously promise a glorified martyrdom to radical Islamists who practice a form of religion that most moderate Muslims consider fundamentalist and extremist. Kind of like the branch Dividians were a form of fundamentalist Christianity, at least to Koresh and his followers.

I would work with leaders of Middle East countries to as rapidly as possible set up Parliamentary form of government like they have in England where the ruling royalty becomes largely a figure-head, while the Prime Minister and the ruling political parties run the country and hold all political power. I would tell them that it is time to change or someday near, die by hands of their own people, they're choice. After Sept 11th the U.S. government cannot continue to prop up government like those in Uzbekistan, and Saudi Arabia that continuously repress, torture, unlawfully jail and try anyone who does not abide by their strict forms of conduct and radical idealism.

[AFE7FATMAN]

What should we do about terrorists within our borders?

I agree with NBADan. Charge them and try them. However if the trials were open I am afraid it would make the Pentagon Papers look like a third grade book report, :lol but I'm all for it.

I want a National ID Card. If you are not here legally than you have 7 days to get out or you will be shipped out after being picked up and detained at a stagging area. GITMO or elsewhere. We can start at our local jail picking them up, about 150 are in Bexar County Jail right now. Oh Bill Gates, USAA get rid of your Indians. Hire American Programmers- you got the money.

Also you don't get into this county without a valid ID and Visa. If you want to go to school here, University only, no trade, pilot training etc, but get a visa and maintain at a least a c average. The Schools must report your grades and conduct to the Immigration folks.

Political refugee, you can stay at a facility in Kansas or built somewhere till you application is approved. No Loans, government grants to other than US Citizens, and for sure no more Social Security or SSI to anyone other than those that have contributed to it.

No one other than US Citizens can own land, or a business. Grandfather those that already own land and a business.
Guest workers OK but first an FBI Background check and for not more than a year, after that- you would need a 2 year break before coming back.

#2 Terrorism in the Middle East.

Show the world that we mean Business.
Force Isarel to make Bethlehem an open City- to be administrated by the Vatican and UN.:wow
Don't know what to do about not having enough land to support everyone. but would suggest Isarel stop letting folks in. Lets take a real close look at those UN resolutions I'm not sure they all are not bias.

#3 if there is another terrorist attack on this soil.........
Make fn sure we know who did it, charge them and try them even if we have to dig them out of the basement of the hilton in Paris, or whever they are hiding and bring them to the US, with or without the help of the French or other government involved.

4 If a terrorist detonates a nuclear bomb in a major US City and there is a threat of other attacks-see three above and if found guilty I suggest we
build a 6 x 8 cell in GITMO, give them 3 meals a day, their holy book/bible
and thats all they get besides medical care for the rest of their lives, if they
die revive them and keep them where they are at.

I would like to see them beheaded and their heads placed on a pole, photgraphed and shown around the world after which we could bury them with some pigs. I guess I'm a bad person

[AFE7FATMAN]

Bump for comments anyone?

[whottt]

One major thing that I think of first concerns with Israel. This is one reason why some are radicalised. Israel has over 65 UN Resolution violations, violates the Geneva Convention (I am not sure of which Article), and has a history of human rights abuses. I realise that much people will say "this is Arab propaganda": I am Arab, I am an activist on this issue, and so I hear this criticism often....but sitings of these things can be found on any Human Rights Org website, and from speaking to Pali-refugees. If America is to have a more credible standing in the Middle East, I think that they should address this issue.

Tell me honstly...do you think Israel has more violations of the Geneva convention than the countries surrounding them?

If so then why is their mass emmigration from those countries to the Western Nations?


The thing is...blowing up our buildings is not going to get you a sympathetic ear...it's making it easier to identify more closely with the Israelis.

The way to win a battle against America(and the West) is to appeal to our sense of humanity...not our anger.




Why force Iraq to comply to UN Resolutions and invade them if they do not, if Israel is not held to the same standards? My proposal for this would be to place sanctions upon Israel until they comply with International Law/UN Resolutions. In other words, to suspend financing and weapons etc given to them, until they work towards complying to Intl law, and work towards a peaceful settlement with the Palestinians. (It takes two or more to make war, and it takes two or more to make peace!)

Isn't it the UN's job to enforce UN resolutions?

Secondly...

Do you guys not see all the aid we have given to muslim and middle eastern nations? Did you guys guys not see what we did in Kossovo?

Are you not aware of how much money we give to the nations surrounding Israel?

10 times as much as Israel gets...





In my opinion, this would cause much Arabs to see that the USA is fair, and perhaps, more will be against terrorism. I truly feel that this issue causes much people to HATE the USA.



As for the other questions, I do not know they are very difficult questions. The version of Islaam which is followed by these who do the attacks, is very fundamental, and very strict. It's goal is to install a Muslim system of law (Shar'ia) upon the world, because it is believed that if anyone follows the laws of a man-made system, they are obeying this man-made system, making them servants to something other than God; which is strictly forbidden in Islaam. It saddens me much that they are using Islaam as a justification to attack and kill innocents: it is forbidden multiple times in the Qur'an as well as the Hadith to make war on innocents, children, elderly, women, and other believers. It seems that the ones who do these acts, only read that which they wish to read in the Qur'an.

This has happened to every religion...every major religion has been used in an attempt to gain world wide domination and control.

It's Islam's turn now...but what are you guys going to do about it?

Allow yourself to be demonized, or show your outrage for those who abuse your religion?

I don't think it's the older muslims feuling this terrorist surge...it's the young ones.

Hint: Terrorism will only gain you the feigned support of cowards in the West...it's going to piss everyone else off...including those who might otherwise be sympathetic to their plight...

Who do you want on your side? Those that run away when afraid, or those that fight? Who do you repect more?

Look at Americas history when attacked...it's bloody, murderous and vengeful.

Now look at Americas history against peacful causes...we always give in...when we lost Vietnam we lost it within our own borders...

Appeals to the conscience of Americans is effective, always...terrorism is not.

Terrorism makes me vote for Bush and seriously consider nuclear weapons as a possible means of retaliation...something I would have never done otherwise. It radicalizes me.

Yes it does scare us and cause fear...but America doesn't run when it is afraid...we've seen too many John Wayne moves, when afraid we mass bomb and kill anyting that appears to be an enemy...terrorism only makes us less humane and more murderous.

MLK figured it out...

Ghandi figured it out with the British...

It's not that hard....terrorism is the one way to gurantee losing this battle.

[Nbadan]

I agree with NBADan. Charge them and try them. However if the trials were open I am afraid it would make the Pentagon Papers look like a third grade book report, but I'm all for it.

I'm gonna have to reconsider my position on this then cause the rest of your post is some scary shit.

:hat :lol

[Nbadan]

I want a National ID Card. If you are not here legally than you have 7 days to get out or you will be shipped out after being picked up and detained at a stagging area. GITMO or elsewhere. We can start at our local jail picking them up, about 150 are in Bexar County Jail right now. Oh Bill Gates, USAA get rid of your Indians. Hire American Programmers- you got the money.

Also you don't get into this county without a valid ID and Visa. If you want to go to school here, University only, no trade, pilot training etc, but get a visa and maintain at a least a c average. The Schools must report your grades and conduct to the Immigration folks.

I've met many of these Indians living in the USAA area, they are very nice folks. In their defense I think I can say that at least they are working in America as opposed to USAA simply shipping the job to India or some other x-British colony. I don't frankly care how much money they send to their families in India as long as they are paying rent, utilities, and Insurance in the U.S. just like the rest of us. Hey, it's the American way. It put many American programmers out of work, including a couple friends, but if your a programmer and you didn't see this coming, you weren't a very good programmer.

[orhe]

damn i wish i have the time and resources to put up at least a great political forum for my country. so much to discuss...