Summer League Thoughts: Spurs vs. Bobcats - July 12, 2013

[timvp]

Cory Joseph
I was happy with his play. The Spurs reportedly want him to concentrate on scoring and he did that well tonight. His catch-and-shoot jumper looks smooth, he can finish adequately at the rim and he can shoot off the dribble. His game-winning J will be what most remember but that was just in a long line of silky looking attempts. I also liked his passing and his defense. The only area of weakness was his turnovers -- but some of that had to do with a lack of chemistry with his teammates. All in all, I believe he took a step forward in terms of convincing the team he's the right man for the backup point guard spot.

Nando De Colo
I wasn't impressed tonight. He had a few nifty dribbling moves and I liked his aggressiveness looking for his shots -- but he left a lot to be desired. Defensively, he was atrocious. He was too aggressive, played angles poorly and made mental errors by the truck load. Can he guard swingmen in the NBA? I'm not sure after what I saw tonight. On offense, he struggled when in a crowd and never found a sustainable rhythm. Let's hope he improves going forward in summer league.

Aron Baynes
I thought he was a little bit underwhelming. Although, to be fair, his post touches were few and far between. He was good enough on the boards but his rotations to protect the rim were oftentimes late. His pick-and-roll defense was also substandard most of the evening. On offense, he was robotic and unnatural a lot of the time. That said, in future games, let's hope he's more involved so we get a better look at what the Spurs have in this young, physically gifted center.

DeShaun Thomas
The Good: The kid is a scorer. It's easy to see he has all those innate abilities -- such as spacial awareness, the ability to get his defender off balance, a healthy self-confidence, etc. -- that scorers possess. Even better is the fact that a lot of it translated seamlessly to this level. At times, he reminded me of a forward version of Michael Redd (who happens to also be a lefty shooter out of Ohio State). Hopefully he keeps looking this good scoring-wise because that's something that will give him a shot to make it in the NBA. The Bad: He was playing a lot of power forward and there's absolutely no way he'd survive at that position in the NBA. He has to transition to small forward to have a chance. Additionally, he also doesn't really pass the eye test in terms of being a good enough athlete or having an NBA-type body. He's top-heavy, stiff and lacks explosion. Overall: Considering how late in the draft he was selected, I was very happy with what I saw. I'm not ready to say he can make it but his ability to score is intriguing. I already give him a better shot to make it than other recent second round picks such as Marcus Denmon, Jack McClinton and Marcus Williams.

Hollis Thompson
Decent. Liked his energy on defense and rebounding. He looks the part on offense but simply lack enough skill to be much of a prospect.

Marcus Denmon
Quality defense but he's just too small for shooting guard and doesn't have the ability to play point guard. He looks even less athletic than last season -- which might be a result of his broken foot. If so, whatever chances he had of making the NBA to begin with have evaporated.

Ryan Richards
Ah, the ultimate tease. Athletically, he looks like an NBA player. He's tall, long and seems to have added a good amount of muscle compared to last season. He moves like a guard and his fluidity is great for a player his size. Skill by skill, he's also impressive. His shot is pretty. He appears to legitimately have three-point range. He has moves on the post. He's not a bad passer. Unfortunately, can't put it all together. He has everything needed to be a very good basketball player ... but he's just not a basketball player. He lacks the wherewithal to play the game. He's still young so there's a chance the light turns on at some point ... but he's just not a basketball player at this point -- that's the best way I can put it.

Everyone Else
Meh.

[racm]

Cory's a good passer, his within-the-arc game is great, and he rebounds like a forward.

19/5/5 is more Tyreke/Manu than Tony.

[TheGoldStandard]

I really think Thomas has potential, I hope that he's just really out of shape and needs to get conditioned and drops a few pounds. The guy is meant to be a 3 and will rely on help defense to cover up his defensive flaws and the only flaw is that he's a little slow. His shot is liquid though, love it.

Richards at 22 needs to work with a legit Center to get some technique down. His jump shot is nice just didn't fall but he needs a post game.

[elmanutres]

cojo did good. I liked how vocal he was with his teammates.

[ace3g]

Did Thomas play a lot of PF at Ohio State because of injuries to other bigs or due to his lack of speed on perimeter?

If it was the former and added weight to be more effective against PFs, has a chance to slim down and return to SF.

[TheGoldStandard]

Did Thomas play a lot of PF at Ohio State because of injuries to other bigs or due to his lack of speed on perimeter?

If it was the former and added weight to be more effective against PFs, has a chance to slim down and return to SF.

I don't think it was really a situation of injuries, I think they just stuck him there. Size really didn't matter.. He's going to have to play a 3 to stay on the floor.. He looks out of shape, think he's gonna shed some pounds and play better.

[BackHome]

So is who is a better defender Bonner or Thomas?

[TheGoldStandard]

So is Thomas defense worse then Bonner or better?

It's not bad but I can see him getting beat off the dribble by wings or pick and roll. He is 225 but it doesn't look like its solid.. Think if he sheds 10 pounds he'll be quicker that or hit the weight room.

[ace3g]

some photos:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/photos/130712

[Chinook]

I thought the Spurs should have used their 15th spot on Richards last season. He really needs to have a chance to develop with solid coaches in a stable environment. If he were allowed to spend a year or two locked away in Austin like Joseph was, I think it could pay huge dividends. I thought he was worse so far in this summer league than he was last year. He really seems to be rotting overseas. He should force a training-camp invitation if only so he can try to latch onto another team or more easily play in the d-league.

I think the Spurs need to run some Parker-esque offense with Joseph. Physically, he should be able to approximate a good deal of what Tony can do. He wasn't great at beating his man off the dribble, but the Spurs often run some early plays for Parker to set up his man before Tony starts isoing.

To me, De Colo looked like a player who thought he was too good to play in the summer league. While I think that's mainly true, he didn't back it up with his play tonight. He was really aggressive on defense, which led to him fouling at an absurdly high rate. He also appeared to whine too much. He may need to go to another team to find greener pastures.

Thomas playing the four so much was surprising, given that the Spurs said it was a priority to see him play on the wing, and they had Pittman and Richards on the bench. He's too short to play power-forward. Yes, he was guarding a center in Zeller for much of the time, but still. I think to have an NBA career, he needs to work on his shooting. It's already good enough as it is, but it needs to be legendary for him to get future contracts with his limitations. If he can steal a year on the bench with Chip, he might be able to do some of the thing Novak can do -- and a lot of things that Steve can't do.

Baynes looked like he belonged in the summer-league, and that's not a good thing. He was going up against two top-10 picks, so he should get a small pass. But I definitely didn't see anything from him to make he think he won't be the sixth big (or off the team) next season. He has plenty of time to change that, though, and let's hope he does. At least he still has a jump shot.

Denmon still has hops, which is good. He seems like a pest on defense, but he needs to shot some more of the scoring that he had in college. If he's really planning on forcing a training-camp invite, the team may as well just relinquish his rights now.

[BatManu20]

If only we could put Deshaun Thomas' mentality & skillset into Ryan Richards body tbh.

[racm]

Ryan Richards won a ring before any of these guys tbh :lol

[Chinook]

So is who is a better defender Bonner or Thomas?

Bonner. It's not even close. Matt is an underrated post defender, who's just below average in most other aspects of D besides protecting the rim (which he's bad at). Thomas will not survive defending the four. He just won't. He shouldn't even play there for the rest of the summer league.

[TheGoldStandard]

I thought the Spurs should have used their 15th spot on Richards last season. He really needs to have a chance to develop with solid coaches in a stable environment. If he were allowed to spend a year or two locked away in Austin like Joseph was, I think it could pay huge dividends. I thought he was worse so far in this summer league than he was last year. He really seems to be rotting overseas. He should force a training-camp invitation if only so he can try to latch onto another team or more easily play in the d-league.

I think the Spurs need to run some Parker-esque offense with Joseph. Physically, he should be able to approximate a good deal of what Tony can do. He wasn't great at beating his man off the dribble, but the Spurs often run some early plays for Parker to set up his man before Tony starts isoing.

To me, De Colo looked like a player who thought he was too good to play in the summer league. While I think that's mainly true, he didn't back it up with his play tonight. He was really aggressive on defense, which led to him fouling at an absurdly high rate. He also appeared to whine too much. He may need to go to another team to find greener pastures.

Thomas playing the four so much was surprising, given that the Spurs said it was a priority to see him play on the wing, and they had Pittman and Richards on the bench. He's too short to play power-forward. Yes, he was guarding a center in Zeller for much of the time, but still. I think to have an NBA career, he needs to work on his shooting. It's already good enough as it is, but it needs to be legendary for him to get future contracts with his limitations. If he can steal a year on the bench with Chip, he might be able to do some of the thing Novak can do -- and a lot of things that Steve can't do.

Baynes looked like he belonged in the summer-league, and that's not a good thing. He was going up against two top-10 picks, so he should get a small pass. But I definitely didn't see anything from him to make he think he won't be the sixth big (or off the team) next season. He has plenty of time to change that, though, and let's hope he does. At least he still has a jump shot.

Denmon still has hops, which is good. He seems like a pest on defense, but he needs to shot some more of the scoring that he had in college. If he's really planning on forcing a training-camp invite, the team may as well just relinquish his rights now.

Richards needs to work with some real interior centers/PF's... I bet working with Duncan would yield a world of good.. He has the tools but doesn't know how to execute. Thomas is a stud, just needs to get into better shape and they really need to play him at the 3.

[racm]

Bonner. It's not even close. Matt is an underrated post defender, who's just below average in most other aspects of D besides protecting the rim (which he's bad at). Thomas will not survive defending the four. He just won't. He shouldn't even play there for the rest of the summer league.

Matt Bonner would have been a great role player in the pre-handcheck era. Since help defense isn't THE thing on defense back then all he has to do is hit open 3s and prevent bigs from getting good post position. :tu

[Chinook]

If only we could put Deshaun Thomas' mentality & skillset into Ryan Richards body tbh.

Richards' skill set is actually pretty impressive. He can shoot, handle and run the floor about as well as any seven-footer can. It's his basketball IQ that's holding him back

[TheGoldStandard]

Bonner. It's not even close. Matt is an underrated post defender, who's just below average in most other aspects of D besides protecting the rim (which he's bad at). Thomas will not survive defending the four. He just won't. He shouldn't even play there for the rest of the summer league.

Apples and Oranges.. Bonner gets destroyed if he's out in the perimeter.. Thomas playing the 4 was just to get him out there and play and shoot.

[TheGoldStandard]

Richards' skill set is actually pretty impressive. He can shoot, handle and run the floor about as well as any seven-footer can. It's his basketball IQ that's holding him back

Hasn't seen real NBA talent.. needs to actually be given time in the D league.

[Chinook]

Richards needs to work with some real interior centers/PF's... I bet working with Duncan would yield a world of good.. He has the tools but doesn't know how to execute. Thomas is a stud, just needs to get into better shape and they really need to play him at the 3.

Boylan would probably be a huge help for him. It's clear right now that Richards has no idea what to do on a basketball court. He means well; he just has no instincts.

[racm]

Apples and Oranges.. Bonner gets destroyed if he's out in the perimeter.. Thomas playing the 4 was just to get him out there and play and shoot.

You shouldn't have a 6'10" 250 guy wearing New Balance shoes out defending on the perimeter, tbh.

[barakz21]

One thing I like aside from CJ's harassing D is that he's always looking to help out on the boards. He may not get a lot of them but he's within the vicinity of the board most of the time. Didn't look very efficient running the O, but like TIMVP said it was probably from the lack of chemistry. Looked like a leader tonight too.

[TheGoldStandard]

You shouldn't have a 6'10" 250 guy wearing New Balance shoes out defending on the perimeter, tbh.
Shouldn't have a 6'7 guy 225 guarding C's and PF's..

[TheGoldStandard]

Boylan would probably be a huge help for him. It's clear right now that Richards has no idea what to do on a basketball court. He means well; he just has no instincts.

This... he needs to fundamentally learn where to be on the floor, spacing etc.. He relies on his athleticism to get him where he's at and in Austria it works but elsewhere it shows.. I bet if he worked on his footwork and developed a post game he'd be dangerous..

[Chinook]

Apples and Oranges.. Bonner gets destroyed if he's out in the perimeter.. Thomas playing the 4 was just to get him out there and play and shoot.

He was a four in college, and a huge knock on him is that he lacks the agility to play on the perimeter defensively. If he can't play the three, he's done. He's not even half the four Bonner is, and that's saying something. He really better hope he turns out to be a better-scoring, but worse-shooting (since it's pretty much impossible to be a better shooter) Novak.

[TheGoldStandard]

He was a four in college, and a huge knock on him is that he lacks the agility to play on the perimeter defensively. If he can't play the three, he's done. He's not even half the four Bonner is, and that's saying something. He really better hope he turns out to be a better-scoring, but worse-shooting (since it's pretty much impossible to be a better shooter) Novak.

Think he has potential to play the 3 in the Spurs system. Needs to work hard but I think he can either shed some weight and improve his defense. I mean if Gary Neal can lose his man constantly and keep a job

[TheyCallMePro]

For me:

Joseph- Best player on the court. Love his aggression. Better shooter than he's given credit for, and super quick and a pretty good ball handler. The one thing that he needs to improve is his passing. Sometimes he would drive and throw up a shot instead of finding the open man. When Parker drives, he is ALWAYS looking for someone to get open.

Thomas- Eh...he was alright. I know he scored like 18 points but he also shot a ton and like Timvp said, he really doesn't have an NBA body. I just don't know if we can handle having another non-athlete on this roster. He's a scorer and a baller, but for Thomas it's all about his conditioning and somehow getting him to commit to playing defense. At this point...if he played SF, he wouldn't be half as good as Kawhi. It would be a huge drop off when he came in.

De Colo- I really didn't like what I saw out of him. Either he doesn't care or he's just slow. I know Joseph was handling the ball up the court more and De Colo was playing off the ball, but still...it was just so obvious how much harder Joseph was hustling. At this moment, I almost wish we could somehow trade De Colo and open up another roster spot.

Baynes- God he was bad. I don't know what happened to the Baynes I watched in the Summer Olympics with the Australian National Team. He was an absolute beast there, and when the Spurs signed him I was jumping up and down with excitement. Baynes just looks flat out lost out there. Offensively he's just horrendous. He can't secure an offensive rebound to save his life. He can bang and hold his ground down low, but he's not a shot blocker. I thought he would dominate in this setting. I was wrong. I hope that Jim Boylen guy can work with him A LOT this summer. Baynes needs to get an edge to his game. Seriously. He just looks like a goofball out there.

Hollis Thompson- I really liked what I saw. I was surprised when I looked at the roster earlier today and saw him on it. I watched this guy at Georgetown, and he can really play. Loved his hustle, his rebounding, and he made some jump shots too. This was a good showing for him, and to me he's a dark horse to make the roster.

M'Baye- Wow this guy is athletic. We could use someone like him on our roster for sure, but I don't know if he can play outside or not. He just looked more mature out there though. At this point, Deshaun Thomas, Thompson, and M'baye are the clear frontrunners for that last roster spot. And if I had to pick one right now, it would be M'baye.

Everyone else- Ugh. Denmon is just too small, and if he can't shoot, dribble, or handle the ball on top of that then there's no way he'll ever play in the NBA. Richards is as soft as Splitter, and that's saying something. Not even worth mentioning anyone else. Oh, and Alex Wangmene, the worst player in the history of Texas basketball being on the team is an ABSOLUTE JOKE. But I get it. RC Burford's adopted son and all. But still!

[Chinook]

Think he has potential to play the 3 in the Spurs system. Needs to work hard but I think he can either shed some weight and improve his defense. I mean if Gary Neal can lose his man constantly and keep a job

He could play the three in small-ball lineups, where he could hide on the opposing team's worse player. Not only would be able to space the floor better than Leonard (allowing Kawhi to play inside the arc more), but he'd also be able to break out more of his game against guards.

One thing that was really good about him is that he moved a lot along the perimeter. The Spurs don't really have anyone who does that besides Green.

[spursince#99]

Man Ryan Richards has the skill set of an All-Star, but the IQ of the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz. :depressed

[TheGoldStandard]

He could play the three in small-ball lineups, where he could hide on the opposing team's worse player. Not only would be able to space the floor better than Leonard (allowing Kawhi to play inside the arc more), but he'd also be able to break out more of his game against guards.

One thing that was really good about him is that he moved a lot along the perimeter. The Spurs don't really have anyone who does that besides Green.

Yes he was active and he had some nice interior moves.. Pump fake, finish at the rim and pull up jumper.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I like how great CoJo is at getting long/contested rebounds. He just jumps right behind the bigs and snags it away while the bigs are duking it out.

[Obstructed_View]

That GW fake and jumper sure looked like a Parker move. That's an outstanding sign for CJ.

[apalisoc_9]

It's unfair to judge baynes at this point considering the limited touches he was getting.

Him and Decolo just did not look motivatad at all.

[racm]

I like how great CoJo is at getting long/contested rebounds. He just jumps right behind the bigs and snags it away while the bigs are duking it out.

Fat Lever-esque, tbh

[Darius Bieber]

Thanks for the write-up, timvp. I'm visiting family in Germany and cannot view the summer league games.

[The Reckoning]

theyre all scrubs tbh

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

I loved Cory Joseph, as previous posters have pointed out, he looked like a leader! We need him to step up his game next year! Loved seeing that from him. I also wanted to talk about Richards, it pisses me off the coaches have him rotting overseas. This kid has unbelievable potential, but whenever I see him play, he just looks uncomfortable. You can tell he hasn't been in a setting that big before. He hustles, he showed surprising good strength, he just has no real experience against quality competition. I don't care how poor of stats he may put up in crappy leagues, if you get a player with his skillset and potential, you put him in the D League and work his butt off. I'm afraid the Spurs are wasting a possible golden opportunity with Richards. If he figures it out upstairs, then he'll be a great player.

[Texas_Ranger]

Joseph - I think it was a solid performance. Some of you have really big expectations from him, but just look at some guys that were drafter before him and they play even worse. On offense he was sometimes too aggressive and it looked like he's forcing his way to the basket, but I guess that's what the Spurs want to see from him. I'd love to see more passing from him, cause we need someone other than Manu from the bench that can make assists. Also I liked his leadership and he has matured quite a bit.

De Colo - He just looks depressed that he's got to play summer league. Overall I didn't like his game. The only think I kinda liked was his moving off the ball. But when he's handling the ball I don't have confidence in him. He just looks too big for a PG and as a SG he's got no chance to be in the rotation. His passes sometimes look nice, but man they are also very risky and it's like watching Manu on a bad turnover night. On defense I also wasn't impressed. Perhaps it's cause he's guarding bigger guys or it's just cause he doesn't give a fuck. On this team with that many guard I just don't see him being played a lot, that's why he's for me the guard that could/should be traded.

Baynes - He looked stiff. His body is really big and I like how he hustles when rebounding. On defense he gets called for a lot of fouls and his pick n' roll moving also isn't that good. When he's defending out of the paint facing the offensive player with his face forward it feels just like when Bonner plays defense. He just needs to move better. On Offense he got like 4 touches so I can't really say anything about it. I do know he can shoot from outside the paint and they could use him in a pick n' pop situations. He did that in Europe but in the NBA he is not doing it. I want to see him get more touches next games.

Thomas - I didn't have high hopes for him, but he did pretty good. He showed that he can shoot and can get open. His ball handling is not good, but just look at the Spurs system and tell me who handles the ball all the time. It's either Tony or Manu. Even Kawhi isn't that good at it and he's been playing the SF position all the time. I don't even want to mention Green. I do think he will have to work a lot so that he can get used to play the 3 all the time, but I think he can do it. On defense he showed that he can guard bigger guys, but the Bobcats ones were pretty weak. I'd also want to see more rebounding from him, but for a debut and for a 57th pick it was a well played game.

Richards - Damn. I thought he was a lot slimmer. Didn't even recognize him. Gotta say he moves good for a big and it looks like he can shoot the ball from anywhere but he also sucks. I never thought he could play in the NBA, cause he's a nobody in Europe. Playing in Austrian league is even worse than playing in the D-league. His stats there are amazing but on the start of the season when he played in Poland league which is also nothing special he played pretty bad. Wouldn't mind sending him to the Toros if he doesn't signs with a better European club.

Denmon - Like we all know by now. Too short for a SG and can't handle the ball to play the PG. He did play good aggressive defense and I liked his energy, but that won't be enough. I even thought he could be someone like Neal and surprise us, but that won't happen. He is playing in a quality league in France and I believe he'll always be just an Euro player.

Thompson - Looked good. Played with a lot of energy and moved well. Could get a solid contract from Europe.

M'Baye - Athletic but too weak for the PF position. His movement on defense was pretty bad and he needs to grab some more rebounds.

Wangmene and Scott - Played too little.

It was an OK played game. Yes there were a lot of Turnovers, but that's expected. I thought the Bobcats were the favorites with MKG, Biyombo and Taylor which all started a lot of games for the Cats. Also with Zeller their teams is pretty stacked for the summer league, but they just didn't play well, other than Taylor and Biyombo's rebounding. MKG is really disappointing, for a 2nd pick he just doesn't look that good. Hope he learns to shoot the ball.

[Raven]

it's weird to see such a high level competition in the summerleague.. de colo, baynes, cojo, zeller, mkg, biyombo, taylor.. anyway, i'm pleased with the development cojo is having, the others do not seem to be already prepared to play. For me the backup poing guard position battle, doesn't exist.

[Bruno]

Thanks timvp, Chinook, TheyCallMePro and Texas_Ranger for their thoughts. :tu

If Thomas keep producing, Spurs should consider signing him with the rest of their MLE to a long term contract and spend the first year to transition his game and his body from PF to SF.

[Baam]

Cojo doesn't look very good to me, he was unable to play the PnR or to even kick the ball out to shooters, even tried a lob to Baynes and that was an epic fail... He regularly ran into people instead of using the floater or passing the ball, looked like a D league player to me.

At this point I see a decent defender is all. De Colo ran the offense much better and was able to get the other scrubs good looks at least.

[Baam]

It's hard to evaluate the bigs with zero play run to involve them.

Baynes doesn't have much of a post game but he has a jumper and can play the PnR...

[Holt's Cat]

Joseph played a competent game, great to see him continue to progress.

Thomas - the young man can shoot. Joel Meyers and Rick Fox sounded like a couple of you knuckleheads turning a late 2nd round Spurs pick into a "star."

Baynes - I do not get the jock sniffing that guy receives in this forum. Played entirely out of control, a bull in a china closet, and stupidly. And some of you wanted him to let Splitter to walk for him. smfh

De Colo - had his moments, but tried to force it a lot on the offensive end.

Thompson - liked his performance in this game, would like to see more.

[Baam]

Also Cojo 1/5 from 3, I heard people saying he was supposed to be a good 3 point shooter and I never saw it, he was tentative as hell in the playoffs passing up looks when Manu kicked the ball our to him... He's not a good shooter. When timvp said he liked his silky jumper and his passing I'm not sure what he watched sorry.


Baynes - I do not get the jock sniffing that guy receives in this forum. Played entirely out of control, a bull in a china closet, and stupidly. And some of you wanted him to let Splitter to walk for him. smfh

He was +10 and was obviously the best defensive player... Now on offense if Cojo was a bit better maybe we'd have seen more... What we saw is his post game and it's not very good but that's it.

[Holt's Cat]

Baynes was dogshit last night.

[Capt Bringdown]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/sites/spurs/files/imagecache/image_gallery_default/130713_06.jpg

[BackHome]

Splitter would have to use a ladder to get that high off the ground..lol

[palangi]

Baynes was dogshit last night.
i thought baynes was pretty dominant on the boards and defense. offensively he wasn't given the ball at all. I don't know how you can blame him for that.

he crashes the boards hard. something we need. since we were 21st in the league in rebounding last year.

[timtonymanu]

Game is replaying on NBAtv right now.

[timtonymanu]

Damn Pittman lost a lot of weight.

[SenorSpur]

To me, De Colo looked like a player who thought he was too good to play in the summer league. While I think that's mainly true, he didn't back it up with his play tonight. He was really aggressive on defense, which led to him fouling at an absurdly high rate. He also appeared to whine too much. He may need to go to another team to find greener pastures.

For an international player, De Colo's attitude and misplaced self-confidence seems to mirror that of an American player. He really seems to think he's better than he actually is. If he was a player who, as Pop likes to say, has "gotten over himself", he would realize that he's got major work to do on his game to play at this level. He's not a good shooter and is a terrible defender, so he's already at a disadvantage. Instead of him taking every opportunity to try to get better, he seems insulted because he's not already a major rotation player. Get a clue, dude.

[xmas1997]

Naw, he's just French!

[Chinook]

For an international player, De Colo's attitude and misplaced self-confidence seems to mirror that of an American player. He really seems to think he's better than he actually is. If he was a player who, as Pop likes to say, has "gotten over himself", he would realize that he's got major work to do on his game to play at this level. He's not a good shooter and is a terrible defender, so he's already at a disadvantage. Instead of him taking every opportunity to try to get better, he seems insulted because he's not already a major rotation player. Get a clue, dude.

I'm watching the game again right now, and during the sequence where Richards hit his pull-up, you could hear De Colo crying out that he's open even though Richards didn't even have a good passing angle. Going down the floor, you could tell De Colo was upset he didn't the ball, and he ended up not only fouling on the next sequence, but also acting really childish when he got called for hit (taking the ball away and dropping it a few feet farther away from the ref). I just can't see him lasting the season in San Antonio if he keeps this up.

[SenorSpur]

I'm watching the game again right now, and during the sequence where Richards hit his pull-up, you could hear De Colo crying out that he's open even though Richards didn't even have a good passing angle. Going down the floor, you could tell De Colo was upset he didn't the ball, and he ended up not only fouling on the next sequence, but also acting really childish when he got called for hit (taking the ball away and dropping it a few feet farther away from the ref). I just can't see him lasting the season in San Antonio if he keeps this up.

I'm also watching the game for the first time right now too. I saw that sequence too. I've gotta say that I'm worried about De Colo - not from a standpoint of development - but from his seemingly immature, bitchy and childish attitude. Aside from being a long ways away from being an actual every game contributor, he just doesn't seem like Spurs material - at this moment.

[Baam]

De Colo competitive spirit is better than the opposite, besides if you're rewatching the game you can't fail to notice the quality of the looks he created for Thomas while Cojo was pretty terrible creating for anyone...

[Baam]

Bottom line both of them probably don't cut it but it's ridiculous to see poeple trying to invent qualities for Cojo that don't even exist like a silky stroke, like really :lol. He's more likable but that doesn't make him a good player.

[SenorSpur]

Competitive spirit is one thing, childish, immature behavior is another.

[TXstbobcat]

I thought Joseph was clutch hitting that game winner but I expected more out of Baynes. Fun game to watch. Good to get back to watching a spurs game again.

[toki9]

Competitive spirit is one thing, childish, immature behavior is another.

I think it's mostly an attitude thing...Nando just looked both pouty and disinterested at the same time (which, I think, is hard to do)...I think he's playing the summer league because he got his wrist slapped by the Spurs FO at the end of the season for his comments/tweets and wants to show the FO that he's a team player--like a reputation rehab assignment for him...but he has to be fully engaged while he's there...just showing up and going through the motions (or visibly showing irritation at the level of talent around him) does more damage to his team credibility than not being there at all (I would think)...

As of the middle of this past season, the backup PG job was Nando's to lose (I think Pop said as much, but don't remember the exact quote)...and he lost to CoJo--who doesn't have Nando's vision or the size--because CoJo's desperate to do everything that's asked of him...i hope Nando understands that he's not exactly elite enough in anything to get by with this kind of comportment...otherwise he's in danger of becoming very pouty (and worse shooting) Udrih...

[Chinook]

De Colo competitive spirit is better than the opposite, besides if you're rewatching the game you can't fail to notice the quality of the looks he created for Thomas while Cojo was pretty terrible creating for anyone...

Joseph out-assisted De Colo.

[Baam]

Joseph out-assisted De Colo.

Yeah that's really disingenuous to respond like that tbh, especially if you watched the game twice. There's assists and assists, Thomas hit several tough shots with a hand in his face and even a buzzer beater at the end of a shitty possession, De Colo created clean open looks for him, no comparison.

[Kingsly Alexander]

Joseph out-assisted De Colo.

And thats because his two assigned duties of the game were to score as much as possible and set up the offensive schemes.

For those knocking Baynes, TBF, it's not like he had a lot of set plays called for him or was given the ball much on the pick and roll

[Chinook]

Yeah that's really disingenuous to respond like that tbh, especially if you watched the game twice. There's assists and assists, Thomas hit several tough shots with a hand in his face and even a buzzer beater at the end of a shitty possession, De Colo created clean open looks for him, no comparison.

Not that stats are the end-all, be-all. But the numbers don't lie here. Neither player did much to set up their teammates. De Colo made some nice passes, but he didn't really set up anybody. Joseph tried a lot harder to run the offense. His teammates were just garbage compared to the regular Spurs' players.

[Kingsly Alexander]

Damn Pittman lost a lot of weight.


And I'm eager to see what he'll bring once he plays, not that there's much of a chance of him making the roster, but if he plays well, surely an invite to pre-season

[Chinook]

And thats because his two assigned duties of the game were to score as much as possible and set up the offensive schemes.

For those knocking Baynes, TBF, it's not like he had a lot of set plays called for him or was given the ball much on the pick and roll

I'm not saying that Joseph out-assisting De Colo wasn't by design. I was responding to Baam's post that De Colo was good at setting up his teammates while Joseph wasn't.

Most people knocking Baynes aren't doing so for his lack of offense. He just kept making dumb play after dumb play on defense and on the boards. He gave the Bobcats like five or six extra possessions.

[TXstbobcat]

I know it was only one game but I really hope the spurs find a spot to try to develop Thomas.

[jermaine]

I think Baynes is an will be a great big off the bench. He's strictly a bruiser. Come in for about 10mins a gm, set hard picks, rebound, defense, an hard fouls. Nuttin more nuttin less. He sets a meannnnnn hard screen. An he can put the ball in the hole. But as far as Cory an De Colo! If they were hoth aggressive, I'd like De colo much better. His basketball smart, is off the charts. Cory looks like a back up. Not like he's even sniffing the reigns to take over for Tony.

[Kingsly Alexander]

Not that stats are the end-all, be-all. But the numbers don't lie here. Neither player did much to set up their teammates. De Colo made some nice passes, but he didn't really set up anybody. Joseph tried a lot harder to run the offense. His teammates were just garbage compared to the regular Spurs' players.

right. Again, according to Udoka, De Colo's job was to concentrate on being a two guard offensively and defensively. And CJ was to score and set up the offensive schemes when he was trying to score.

Neither one was particularly concerned with setting up shots for the other players.

[jermaine]

I know it was only one game but I really hope the spurs find a spot to try to develop Thomas.

His best development is to practice against Kawhi! I think he's a great solid back up for Kawhi.

[toki9]

Yeah that's really disingenuous to respond like that tbh, especially if you watched the game twice. There's assists and assists, Thomas hit several tough shots with a hand in his face and even a buzzer beater at the end of a shitty possession, De Colo created clean open looks for him, no comparison.

Joseph's assists are pretty routine, conservative type sets--he's not really going to create looks that no one else saw prior to the pass...whereas DeColo can create those assists--when he's on and is surrounded by commensurate level of talent (watching him play reminded me of watching Kenny Anderson in his Georgia Tech days...great vision and passes, but surrounded by guys who didn't know what to do with his passes...he had to get to the NBA to become fully effective as a passer)--but Nando's also much more prone to take risks when those risks aren't necessarily the better options...

Besides his attitude and motor, CoJo won the backup PG job over Nando because he didn't turn the ball over (and of course, CoJo had 4 TO to Nando's 3 in last night's game)--and I think that has a lot to do with the way they play the game...it really is like a case of tortoise vs. hare in some ways...

Nando is really good, but not nearly as good (at least right now) as he thinks he is...and if he can get over that inflated self-image and really learns to take coaching constructively, both he and the team would be so much better off...

[Bruno]

De Colo is playing the SL just because Spurs asked him to do so. Now, he surely got concerns to see Spurs trying him at the SG spot while having signed Belinelli and not giving up on Neal.

At that stage, the best solution for both Spurs and De Colo would be a trade.

[toki9]

De Colo is playing the SL just because Spurs asked him to do so.

You can definitely see that in the way he plays...he doesn't really want to be in Vegas, playing the SL...i'm curious to know what kind of wrist slap that the Spurs FO gave him at the end of the season over his comment/tweets--not that that matters...

[Johnny RIngo]

At this moment, I almost wish we could somehow trade De Colo and open up another roster spot.

Almost? I'll pack his bags myself if the Spurs can make that trade happen.

[Johnny RIngo]

otherwise DeColo's in danger of becoming very pouty (and worse shooting) Udrih...

He already is that player. Difference is Udrih was able to carve out an NBA career for himself(no matter how shitty it's been). I don't see an NBA career for DeColo. IMO, he's back in Europe within two years.

[Bruno]

You can definitely see that in the way he plays...he doesn't really want to be in Vegas, playing the SL...i'm curious to know what kind of wrist slap that the Spurs FO gave him at the end of the season over his comment/tweets--not that that matters...

Well, De Colo said that Spurs told him to shut up but nothing too bad:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148357&page=18&p=6646850&viewfull=1#post6646850

Now, I don't he is playing SL as some sort of punishment. He is playing because Spurs want to see him at the SG spot and there might have some hidden motives like showcasing him for a trade.

[weebo]

This Summer is for CoJo as much as it was for Leonard last year. He is going to have to prove to everyone he's ready to make the next step and be a legitimate player for the upcoming season. The Spurs are probably high on his ability to become the full time back up point guard. Let's just hope he's ready to meet the challenge head on.

[TXstbobcat]

That would be huge for the spurs if Joseph can take the back up point guard spot behind Parker full time. We wouldn't need to rotate De Colo, Neal, and Manu at that spot like a lot of last year.

[toki9]

Well, De Colo said that Spurs told him to shut up but nothing too bad:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148357&page=18&p=6646850&viewfull=1#post6646850

Now, I don't he is playing SL as some sort of punishment. He is playing because Spurs want to see him at the SG spot and there might have some hidden motives like showcasing him for a trade.

Thank you, Bruno. That second interview was much more encouraging than the first. I really hope he figures it out because he does seem to have a lot of potential and can be really fun to watch.

[timvp]

After the game, Udoka side the Spurs view Thomas as a small ball four :wow

I just don't see that being an option. Thomas at his absolute ceiling on defense as a PF is Bonner. And he's years away from even that level.

You gotta make him a small forward. Hopefully we see that in upcoming summer league games.

[toki9]

After the game, Udoka side the Spurs view Thomas as a small ball four :wow


That's insane and positively Nellie-esque...

[Chinook]

I hope Udoka's comments don't mean that the Spurs believe he can't make the transition to the three. Because he doesn't have much more of an NBA future than Denmon does if he can't play against small-forwards.

[playblair]

smh thomas just dominated a top 5 pick ................ @ pf............... stop hating..............

[Chinook]

^If the Spurs sign Thomas, I'm sure timvp or Kori will let you change your screen name.

[K-State Spur]

After the game, Udoka side the Spurs view Thomas as a small ball four :wow

I just don't see that being an option. Thomas at his absolute ceiling on defense as a PF is Bonner. And he's years away from even that level.

You gotta make him a small forward. Hopefully we see that in upcoming summer league games.

I don't think there's any hope for him as a SF, doesn't move well enough.

He's not a legit 6'7, but his standing reach is a legit 8'8 (about the same as Blake Griffin) and he's thick. At tOSU, he was pretty non-existent on the offensive glass (possibly because he spent so much time hanging beyond the arc), but his defensive rebound rate was solid. When he did play exclusively in the post as a frosh, albeit in lesser minutes, his rebound rates were excellent.

I think his ceiling could be a more skilled version of Blair - and there's value in that off the bench in the right matchups.

[playblair]

I don't think there's any hope for him as a SF, doesn't move well enough.

He's not a legit 6'7, but his standing reach is a legit 8'8 (about the same as Blake Griffin) and he's thick. At tOSU, he was pretty non-existent on the offensive glass (possibly because he spent so much time hanging beyond the arc), but his defensive rebound rate was solid. When he did play exclusively in the post as a frosh, albeit in lesser minutes, his rebound rates were excellent.

I think his ceiling could be a more skilled version of Blair - and there's value in that off the bench in the right matchups.

thomas = blair with 3 point range :wow .................... thomas = steal......................

[Chinook]

Wrong thread.

[dbestpro]

If we can play Blair at PF after he stopped focusing on rebounding then we can play Thomas at PF. What I really want to know is or will CoJo run any pick and rolls? To me this is the biggest empty space in his game and what the Spurs do.

[timvp]

his defensive rebound rate was solid.Of the power forward prospects in the draft, Thomas had the lowest defensive rebounding rate.


When he did play exclusively in the post as a frosh, albeit in lesser minutes, his rebound rates were excellent. He was slightly better as a freshman but still bad.


I think his ceiling could be a more skilled version of Blair - and there's value in that off the bench in the right matchups.A smaller, worse rebounding version of Blair at power forward? I just can't be on board with that.

At least let him try and fail at small forward in the summer league before relegating him to a bigman spot, IMO.

[K-State Spur]

damn, i pretty much got owned there - misread/misapplied stats.

still think 3 is a non-starter for him. little more than a situational matchup guy at 4 - but can live with that from 50+ pick.

[Jwash_1986]

smh thomas just dominated a top 5 pick ................ @ pf............... stop hating..............
Real talk he just did that. Hell 80% of there roster I wouldn't be suprised was top 10 picks. I know of like 2 or 3 on there Sumer league squad that is. Thomas just needs to play his game. He's a ballet and I hope spurs don't go around trying to do stupid shit like stick him in the corner for 3's and that it, fuck that!!

[skulls138]

Apples and Oranges.. Bonner gets destroyed if he's out in the perimeter.. Thomas playing the 4 was just to get him out there and play and shoot.
True but Bonner did well against Dwight Howard and Zach Randolph. If Bonner is the apple, its a lot bigger and shinier than Thomas's orange and I think Bonner's coming back even better.

[rjv]

After the game, Udoka side the Spurs view Thomas as a small ball four :wow

I just don't see that being an option. Thomas at his absolute ceiling on defense as a PF is Bonner. And he's years away from even that level.

You gotta make him a small forward. Hopefully we see that in upcoming summer league games.

that only works against GS, miami in some spots, denver maybe from time to time. why would we get a player for situations only ? this isn't a bullpen.

[SilverSpur]

Shouldn't have a 6'7 guy 225 guarding C's and PF's..

Maybe they're doing this to toughen him up. So when he guards small forwards it will be easier

[coyotes_geek]

Maybe they're doing this to toughen him up. So when he guards small forwards it will be easier

No matter how tough he gets he's still going to be way too slow to guard small forwards.

Frankly, I don't think Thomas is an NBA caliber player.

[wildbill2u]

Ja
Thanks timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8), Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), TheyCallMePro (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34895) and Texas_Ranger (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4029) for their thoughts. :tu

If Thomas keep producing, Spurs should consider signing him with the rest of their MLE to a long term contract and spend the first year to transition his game and his body from PF to SF.

If Thomas is just a bulkier version of James Anderson, you might give him a shot to make the team for a year of off and on D-league stints. You don't give a project like him a long term contract. You look for something better down the line.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think Thomas' potential upside is a bench 3, spot up shooter. It was one Summerleague game but he did seem to have a clue when it came to playing within the offense and making an effort to find the open man and not just letting it fly every time. There's plenty of NBA vets who haven't figured that out.

That being said, he'll have to prove that he can defend the 3. If he can stay with his man and contest shots, he may have a chance. I did like that his game seems to be about playing team ball.

Again, one game. We'll see more tomorrow night.

[Marcus Bryant]

Also his shot release is interesting. He lets it go at a high point but it's kind of a line drive trajectory. There's been some good shooters like that in the league. All depends on the elevation. Michael Redd comes to mind with respect to this quality.

[Marcus Bryant]

To toughen him up on the defensive end you put him on the opposing 2, not the 4. The question mark for him will be his ability to step out on the perimeter and defend. I've heard his footspeed is slow, but as long as his lateral quickness and ability to elevate to contest shots is there he could be alright at the 3.

Interesting that Spurs may be looking at him as a small ball 4...further proof that Bonner's days are numbered if I am reading the tea leaves correctly. Of course, he has one year left on his contract so they may just be prospectively planning ahead.