Wizards interested in Blair, looking at a S&T.

[Baseline]

Ariza is a role player. Without Kobe he's worthless That's a statement based on media hype, not reality. The media gives Bryant credit for everything. The truth is that Gasol is the player who made it possible for Ariza to succeed in LA, not Bryant. At that time, Gasol had to be doubled every time he touched the ball. Also, Ariza's perimeter defense masked other deficiencies...primarily the fact that Bryant stopped playing real defense in about 2008, and simply coasted and cruised the passing lanes for steals (i.e. more points). The Lakers were stupid to let Ariza go, and signed Ron Artest to that long contract in an attempt to replace him.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs better be trying to get Ariza. He would be a perfect backup behind Kawhi and I think he would work well in the Spurs system. Great 3 point shooter, good defender, and has been to the biggest stage. Get it done :hungry:

[spursince#99]

imho a smallball 4 has to be able to defend every 4 aside from the gasols of the game. You can't be forced not to play him just because your opponent is playing amir johnson, can you?

who's to say he couldn't hold his own against a guy like Amir Johnson?

[Leetonidas]

Also add to that that Afflalo's not very good.

You realize we're looking for bench players right? Afflalo is, in fact, a good player. He doesn't need to be an all-star. We're looking for a backup swingman not a world beater

[Chinook]

You realize we're looking for bench players right? Afflalo is, in fact, a good player. He doesn't need to be an all-star. We're looking for a backup swingman not a world beater

No one should be looking for a bench player with that contract. He'd be the fourth-highest paid player on the team, and he has a worse PER than any rotation player.

[Man In Black]

If Spurs do a Bonner+Blair for Ariza with Washington, a way to add another big would be to do another S&T with Neal to Milwaukee, that is rumored to be after him. Bucks have a lot of bigmen and Udoh or Ayon should be available.
IF Atlanta did match Milwaukee's offer for Jeff Teague then perhaps Milwaukee may think that Gary Neal could play some backup point and his shooting replaces what was lost with the departure of Monta Ellis and JJ Redick?

[Dr Cox]

I love the Ariza idea. Would be perfect for the Spurs if they could sign a big as well. (Oden, KMart, ect.)


Lets be honest....its going to be blair for a second rounder. In that case we can just hope that it is the 31st pick in a pretty deep draft.

[Dr Cox]

What about Jason Collins? (don't reply that he is gay)

[Chinook]

What about Jason Collins? (don't reply that he is gay)

He sucks...

[Raven]

who's to say he couldn't hold his own against a guy like Amir Johnson?

maybe a more blatant example, Paul Millsap.

[Raven]

He sucks...

cheap :lol

[xmas1997]

There is all of this discussion and we are all assuming that it doesn't matter to the Wizards that Blair will NOT pass his physical due to no ACLs. We all assume that fact is common knowledge in the NBA. It wouldn't surprise me if they have second thoughts and nix the deal at the last moment using this excuse.

[Baseline]

What about Jason Collins? (don't reply that he is gay) Dude has never been anything but roster filler, a Geiko guy in case the entire roster gets hurt. The only discernible skill being a big body who plays passable D. No thanks.

[coachmac87]

I see a pattern of Chinook overrating Spurs players and underratng other players. Now Ariza isn't that good? Com'on dude. Ariza would be an amazing fit for the backup swingman position on this team.

CHINOOK has a tough time rating players period.....glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way lol

[UZER]

What about Jason Collins? (don't reply that he is gay)

he's happy

[Chinook]

CHINOOK has a tough time rating players period.....glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way lol

Did you read the part where he realized he was wrong? Or is following me around gonna be your new thing?

[Vic Petro]

There is all of this discussion and we are all assuming that it doesn't matter to the Wizards that Blair will NOT pass his physical due to no ACLs. We all assume that fact is common knowledge in the NBA. It wouldn't surprise me if they have second thoughts and nix the deal at the last moment using this excuse.

Everyone knows he has no ACLs. It's not a Spurs' secret. The Wiz would be making the deal knowing this.

[Leetonidas]

No one should be looking for a bench player with that contract. He'd be the fourth-highest paid player on the team, and he has a worse PER than any rotation player.

Playing on one of the worst teams ever probably skews his PER and I'm sure being in a situation like he was in LA will do wonders for him. Who cares what he makes, Spurs are in win now mode. And he'd probably be the 6th-7th best player on the team so it's not that big of a deal. Yeah he's overpaid but Spurs don't have a lot of better options. Plus he is expiring, so that point is moot. We all know if Green was a free agent after last season he would be getting paid big time, Kawhi as well. And the Spurs gave that piece of shit Richard Jefferson 10 million dollars a season, there's no way you can convince anyway he is better than Ariza, so imo his contract isn't the issue here.

[Leetonidas]

He sucks...

Was that a joke? :lmao

But yeah agree on him, Collins is absolute garbage, not sure why he's still in the league

[look_at_g_shred]

Playing on one of the worst teams ever probably skews his PER and I'm sure being in a situation like he was in LA will do wonders for him. Who cares what he makes, Spurs are in win now mode. And he'd probably be the 6th-7th best player on the team so it's not that big of a deal. Yeah he's overpaid but Spurs don't have a lot of better options. Plus he is expiring, so that point is moot. We all know if Green was a free agent after last season he would be getting paid big time, Kawhi as well. And the Spurs gave that piece of shit Richard Jefferson 10 million dollars a season, there's no way you can convince anyway he is better than Ariza, so imo his contract isn't the issue here.
Also a great role player down in New Orleans. Lets not forget that stint.

[Chinook]

Playing on one of the worst teams ever probably skews his PER and I'm sure being in a situation like he was in LA will do wonders for him. Who cares what he makes, Spurs are in win now mode. And he'd probably be the 6th-7th best player on the team so it's not that big of a deal. Yeah he's overpaid but Spurs don't have a lot of better options. Plus he is expiring, so that point is moot. We all know if Green was a free agent after last season he would be getting paid big time, Kawhi as well. And the Spurs gave that piece of shit Richard Jefferson 10 million dollars a season, there's no way you can convince anyway he is better than Ariza, so imo his contract isn't the issue here.

We're talking about Afflalo or Ariza? Ariza would be a good addition, because he's a good role-player and expiring contract. Afflalo woudn't be, because he has three years left on his deal and was never that good to begin with. I've said as much a few times in this thread.

[spursince#99]

maybe a more blatant example, Paul Millsap.


You talk as if there's better options out on the open market.

[Leetonidas]

We're talking about Afflalo or Ariza? Ariza would be a good addition, because he's a good role-player and expiring contract. Afflalo woudn't be, because he has three years left on his deal and was never that good to begin with. I've said as much a few times in this thread.

Thought we were discussing both but I meant Ariza in that last post but I think you meant Afflalo, my bad :lol

[Libri]

He sucks...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.jpg

[Raven]

You talk as if there's better options out on the open market.

Firstly, he's actually not one of the options, its pure speculation. Secondly, i am only debating his fit as a stretch 4, not as a player, i love him as a player, just not as a 4, I'd rather have him on the 3 and Kawhi at the 4 if anything. The debate was simply about who is more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko, and i was simply saying it's Kirilenko, nothing more than that.

[Hoops Czar]

Ariza's been on the block for years now. That's why he's been trade twice already. Both times were pretty much just as salary filler. He's not that good. In fact, if his deal weren't expiring, I don't think very many people on this board would want him............
You're underselling Ariza's value and overvaluing Blairs. I'm not sure what your point is about a players value versus the number of time said player's been traded. Does Garnett not have value because he's been traded twice? Whether or not he's been on the block by Washington in the past is debatable, but now they have Porter and Webster which makes Ariza expendable. However, that doesn't mean the Wizards are just going to give him away and they aren't going to bend over backwards to take the Spur's junk to make the trade work.

We also don't know how much interest Washington has in Blair. If the price tag is too high, the Wizards will just move on without giving it a second thought. Blair isn't crap, but he doesn't have much value either. You're also making assumption that the Spurs aren't interested in anything Washington has. Who here thought the Spurs would be interested enough in Pendergragh to sign him to a two year deal, using part of the MLE?

[Chinook]

Thought we were discussing both but I meant Ariza in that last post but I think you meant Afflalo, my bad :lol

:lol Yeah, I really just need to sticky the post of something, since you're like the fourth person who's gotten on my case about this.

Ariza: Good addition due to his defense, shooting and expiring contract. He's attainable because he doesn't have high stock around the league after several years of mediocre or worse production. Definitely worth Blair and Bonner.

Afflalo: Not a good addition due to contract amount and length. With his height, he's just a shooting-guard who wouldn't be an upgrade over Green or Ginobili. Doesn't address the backup three situation. Not worth the long-term commitment and definitely not worth the first-rounder in the proposed trade.

[Leetonidas]

Gotcha. I disagree about Afflalo, I think he is a decent player, he's not chopped liver or anything. But I agree on his salary and length of his contract, wouldn't want to pay Ginobili money for someone who isn't even as good as Ginobili :lol

[Chinook]

You're underselling Ariza's value and overvaluing Blairs. I'm not sure what your point is about a players value versus the number of time said player's been traded. Does Garnett not have value because he's been traded twice? Whether or not he's been on the block by Washington in the past is debatable, but now they have Porter and Webster which makes Ariza expendable. However, that doesn't mean the Wizards are just going to give him away and they aren't going to bend over backwards to take the Spur's junk to make the trade work.

Garnett's only been traded once on this contract. He was good enough to get a no-trade clause added to his deal and even when he was traded on his last contract, it was only with his blessing. About the weakest comparison I've ever seen. Add to that that Ariza's been a terrible contract since the day he signed with Houston, and there's no way to assume he still has value. As I've said several times, he may not go to the Spurs, but he won't be traded for anything the Spurs couldn't have offered themselves. He simply just has not value around the league anymore. And that's a shame, because he's not as bad as he's seemed the last several years. Still massively overpaid.


We also don't know how much interest Washington has in Blair. If the price tag is too high, the Wizards will just move on without giving it a second thought. Blair isn't crap, but he doesn't have much value either. You're also making assumption that the Spurs aren't interested in anything Washington has. Who here thought the Spurs would be interested enough in Pendergragh to sign him to a two year deal, using part of the MLE?

You should go back and read the OP and the connected articles. The Wizards approached the Spurs about a trade for Blair. The Spurs weren't too thrilled with anything the Wizards had to offer, which is why nothing's really happened so far. That's not my speculation -- that's what is currently believed by the media. I think most of us on this board would be fine with not getting Ariza. Really, I'm just saying what I would accept for Blair if I were the Spurs. They don't really have anything else that would make sense. I'd rather just let Blair walk. And before you talk about me overrating Blair and underrating Ariza, that's pretty much the consensus opinion on the matter.

[playblair]

celtics are trading Humphries .................. bonner & colo 4 Humphries...............

[spursince#99]

Firstly, he's actually not one of the options, its pure speculation. Secondly, i am only debating his fit as a stretch 4, not as a player, i love him as a player, just not as a 4, I'd rather have him on the 3 and Kawhi at the 4 if anything. The debate was simply about who is more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko, and i was simply saying it's Kirilenko, nothing more than that.

The debate was not about who'd be more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko. It was strictly regarding Ariza and if he'd be capable of playing smallball 4 which I personally think he could for a stretch, especially in the West. Pay more attention before you reply to a quote.

[benefactor]

:lol Hoop Czar...you'd think the Wizards are giving away Kevin Durant hearing him talk about it.

It's not about value or whether or not he's worth Blair. They just drafted a SF with the #3 pick. They just gave another SF 22 million dollars. There is absolutely no reason to pay yet another SF 7.7 million this season...and it's not like teams are going to just line up to pay it for a player that can is only useful in a limited role. They are getting something they want and getting rid of an overpaid something they don't need. It's pretty simple.

[Raven]

The debate was not about who'd be more suited to be a smallball 4 between Ariza and Kirilenko. It was strictly regarding Ariza and if he'd be capable of playing smallball 4 which I personally think he could for a stretch, especially in the West. Pay more attention before you reply to a quote.


Unlike Ariza, Kirilenko can play PF.

as you can see, the comparison was there from the start.

[pad300]

Now this is both interesting and relevant to this discussion:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228880/Wittman-Wizards-Need-To-Add-Stretch-Power-Forward

Bonner + Blair for Ariza + ???

[Chinook]

Indeed it's making more and more sense.

[benefactor]

Now this is both interesting and relevant to this discussion:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228880/Wittman-Wizards-Need-To-Add-Stretch-Power-Forward

Bonner + Blair for Ariza + ???
And there it is. They want a stretch four. They want Dejuan Blair. They need to get rid of an overpaid SF. The Spurs need an SF. Not fucking rocket science.

[TXstbobcat]

So trading Blair is the blockbuster trade for the spurs this off season.

[Hoops Czar]

.............

Now you're moving the goal posts. What does Ariza being overpaid have to do with the price of tea in China? Ariza was signed to a contract based on previous production. That wasn't a Garnett comparison, it was merely a reactionary response to your ridiculous point about Ariza's value vs being traded twice, which really doesn't make any sense. Ariza was traded to New Orleans because Houston acquired Kevin Martin and they didn't want to pay a substantial tax bill. Washington didn't trade for Ariza because they thought he was underwhelming garbage. Along with Okafor, he dramatically improved the team's defense that was 19th in the league in botth opponents ppg and opponents FG%. In fact, most teams make trades as an attempt to improve the team rather than hinder it. For those players that don't live up to their contract, Ariza can join the club of many. Ariza still has value on the defenseive end, was regularly atop the league in steals per game prior to joining the Wizards, his length and athleticism allows him to guard multiple positions and get into the passing lanes, something that will increase turnovers and generate fast break opportunities. He just wasn't a good fit in Washington'p, but he could thrive in San Antonio. Blair's major contribution is rebounding and that is basically the extent of his value. His defense is horrid and his scoring ability is suspect at best. He's a back end of the rotation big at best. And Bonner would have to be coupled in the deal and teams don't want Bonner even as an expiring unless the goal was to immediately release him. Just ask Flip.

[Kindergarten Cop]

So trading Blair is the blockbuster trade for the spurs this off season.

Getting something we desperately need for someone we were going to let walk - and perhaps get someone to take Bonner off our hands (even though I appreciate what he brings more than most on this forum) is enough to get a LOT of fans excited.

[spursince#99]

as you can see, the comparison was there from the start.

That's not what you quoted dude.

[Dverde]

Wiz drafted Otto Porter to play. This isn't the NFL where people are groomed for a year. They are definitely looking to move Ariza or Singleton if not now, at the trading deadline. If it doesn't go down, its because the Spurs wouldn't give up Bonner. No way they are looking to move Seraphin for an asset like Blair unless the Spurs include draft picks or overseas rights.

[Uriel]

:lol at people discussing Ariza. They clearly did not read the second part of Woj's tweet.

[Kindergarten Cop]

:lol at people discussing Ariza. They clearly did not read the second part of Woj's tweet.

This:


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--wizards-show-interest-in-dejuan-blair-170127120.html

Woj isn't saying that Spurs aren't interested in what Wizards could offer for Blair. He says he doesn't know.

[Rogue]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

[pad300]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

Last I checked, the current (all signings included) 2013/14 payrolls for the spurs was roughly $62 Million. The lux tax is at $71 Million. They are not worried about the lux tax. Especially with an S&T that has some salary beyond Blair leaving...

[Kindergarten Cop]

Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30361904.jpg

[Leetonidas]

Bonner + Blair for Vesely and Ariza is a pretty good deal for both sides imo

[Dverde]

Spurs ain't gonna take on any more salaries imho, as they must ensure that their payroll stays below the line of luxury tax. Blair is a championship-caliber role player and it's gonna be a pity to let him walk that's why the 9m/yr signing of Splitter was a bad business (by spurs' standard at least). they could've saved the money and split it between Blair and Splitter imho.

Portland, Bucks, or Mavs would have given Tiago 8M a year if not more. Maybe Tiago stays with SA for less, but we'll never know as SA offered what he was probably going to be offered.

[Chinook]

Now you're moving the goal posts. What does Ariza being overpaid have to do with the price of tea in China? Ariza was signed to a contract based on previous production. That wasn't a Garnett comparison, it was merely a reactionary response to your ridiculous point about Ariza's value vs being traded twice, which really doesn't make any sense. Ariza was traded to New Orleans because Houston acquired Kevin Martin and they didn't want to pay a substantial tax bill. Washington didn't trade for Ariza because they thought he was underwhelming garbage. Along with Okafor, he dramatically improved the team's defense that was 19th in the league in botth opponents ppg and opponents FG%. In fact, most teams make trades as an attempt to improve the team rather than hinder it. For those players that don't live up to their contract, Ariza can join the club of many. Ariza still has value on the defenseive end, was regularly atop the league in steals per game prior to joining the Wizards, his length and athleticism allows him to guard multiple positions and get into the passing lanes, something that will increase turnovers and generate fast break opportunities. He just wasn't a good fit in Washington'p, but he could thrive in San Antonio. Blair's major contribution is rebounding and that is basically the extent of his value. His defense is horrid and his scoring ability is suspect at best. He's a back end of the rotation big at best. And Bonner would have to be coupled in the deal and teams don't want Bonner even as an expiring unless the goal was to immediately release him. Just ask Flip.

Ariza being overpaid has everything to do with his trade value below. I can't even believe you even tried to suggest it doesn't. He doesn't have a lot of value because he's not a worth his contract. If Ariza were making $2 Million a year, no one would care that he's been pretty bad since leaving the Lakers. But since he's making so much money, he's not as attractive to teams. That's simple trade economics.

Your comparison of Ariza's and Garnett's situations was just silly. Garnett was traded twice over the course of six years because he asked/allowed himself to be. Ariza was moved twice on the same contract (three times total) because he teams didn't want him anymore. Houston moved him because they knew he wasn't worth is deal and thought that Courtney Lee could do what Ariza did. Washington took his contract so they could get Okafor. The Hornets only got a second-rounder out of that deal, so you better believe they considered getting rid of Ariza an asset on the trade ledger. Neither time did Ariza's former team get back a quality player for him. I don't know why you believe Washington will.

You can polish him up as much as you want to make it seem like he's some great asset, but the fact remains that he's been pretty bad since leaving a well-structured offense. He would be a good fit for the Spurs, but he's not worth much to any team right now. It says a lot about a team's opinion of a player that they not only drafted his replacement but also handed out the full MLE for a player to back up his replacement. Even if the Wizards have as skewed of a view of Ariza's value as you're demonstrating, they just completely undercut his value this off-season. No way they get anything like you're suggesting they will. If they want Blair and think he can help them win games, there's no reason to keep holding out.

[cd021]

well it was with ariza on the floor.

He missed 22 games. And played only 26 mpg, including only 15 starts. Your acting like he was a big part of a juggernaut defense.

New Orleans was 15th the season before, in defensive rate. He started 41 games and played 33 mpg.

[FireMicoHalili]

betting he gets traded for a draft pick instead. We have (1) roster spot left. That DeShaun Thomas guy looks like a keeper.

Unless we unload Bonner/Mills/De Colo of course.

[coyotes_geek]

I have a hard time seeing Washington valuing Blair enough to give up Ariza. Even with tossing in Bonner. Ariza is pretty much the perfect trade assest to use when trying to get involved in some blockbuster deal. He's a useful player with an expiring contract that has a salary big enough to allow the Wizards to take on a bunch more salary in return. Grunfeld's got bigger ideas in mind for Trevor Ariza than wasting him on Dejuan Blair and Matt Bonner. He's looking to use Ariza in trade packages to go after guys like Eric Gordon, or Luol Deng, or Amare Stoudamire.

I doubt Washington is offering the Spurs anything more than Vessley, Booker or Singleton.

[siraulo23]

ariza would be an awesome pickup, takes care of one of spurs glaring need

[cd021]

betting he gets traded for a draft pick instead. We have (1) roster spot left. That DeShaun Thomas guy looks like a keeper.

Unless we unload Bonner/Mills/De Colo of course.

Well it depends...

1. If Blair S&T's would we be able to move another player to Washington (Mills, specifically) and who we receive (Ariza) Of course that clears up an extra spot. However Neal may return (possibly on a one year deal, playing for the qualifying offer) which would basically put us in the same spot in terms of space. Personally, I'd like to see us get Vessley and move Blair and Mills. Resign T-Mac for the minimum. S&T Neal to the Bucks for a second rounder and that's a wrap on the off season, unless Oden signs with us.

2. Washington would probably be willing to part with a 2nd rounder. Since they are likely going to make the playoffs that pick would be no less than 44th (If im correct) we could have 3 second rounders next season (assuming the Clippers finish with an top 5 records in the NBA, not likely but still...) We'd also have to take back some salary, either way i believe. Maybe a player like Rice Jr. who is a 2nd rounder doesn't affect the futre cap while giving the Spurs a prospect at 2 guard.

[Dverde]

Ariza being overpaid has everything to do with his trade value below. I can't even believe you even tried to suggest it doesn't. He doesn't have a lot of value because he's not a worth his contract. If Ariza were making $2 Million a year, no one would care that he's been pretty bad since leaving the Lakers. But since he's making so much money, he's not as attractive to teams. That's simple trade economics.

Your comparison of Ariza's and Garnett's situations was just silly. Garnett was traded twice over the course of six years because he asked/allowed himself to be. Ariza was moved twice on the same contract (three times total) because he teams didn't want him anymore. Houston moved him because they knew he wasn't worth is deal and thought that Courtney Lee could do what Ariza did. Washington took his contract so they could get Okafor. The Hornets only got a second-rounder out of that deal, so you better believe they considered getting rid of Ariza an asset on the trade ledger. Neither time did Ariza's former team get back a quality player for him. I don't know why you believe Washington will.

You can polish him up as much as you want to make it seem like he's some great asset, but the fact remains that he's been pretty bad since leaving a well-structured offense. He would be a good fit for the Spurs, but he's not worth much to any team right now. It says a lot about a team's opinion of a player that they not only drafted his replacement but also handed out the full MLE for a player to back up his replacement. Even if the Wizards have as skewed of a view of Ariza's value as you're demonstrating, they just completely undercut his value this off-season. No way they get anything like you're suggesting they will. If they want Blair and think he can help them win games, there's no reason to keep holding out. I agree with your statement. Good insight. I still think Ariza is solid player that is worth trading for. Considering it is a one year deal in which you give up a role player for another one (Bonner), I would take Ariza over Bonner for his defense. Hopefully Diaw can approve his 3 pt shooting and fill the void of Bonner.

[cd021]

I have a hard time seeing Washington valuing Blair enough to give up Ariza. Even with tossing in Bonner. Ariza is pretty much the perfect trade assest to use when trying to get involved in some blockbuster deal. He's a useful player with an expiring contract that has a salary big enough to allow the Wizards to take on a bunch more salary in return. Grunfeld's got bigger ideas in mind for Trevor Ariza than wasting him on Dejuan Blair and Matt Bonner. He's looking to use Ariza in trade packages to go after guys like Eric Gordon, or Luol Deng, or Amare Stoudamire.

I doubt Washington is offering the Spurs anything more than Vessley, Booker or Singleton.

They are at $69 milllion in cap space. He is close to the luxury tax. Moving Ariza for Blair would clear up $3,000,000 (If they are willing to pay Blair $4 million this season) off the books allowing them to use there mid level (not a ton out there but...).

[apalisoc_9]

I love the idea of Ariza in a Spurs uniform but i'm not sure if i actually would want to get rid of Bonner. As bad as he is defensively, he offers diversity in the offensive end something Ariza doesn't have. He's a great corner 3pt shooter, but he just doesn't have that same touch elsewhere. Playoff wise, I'd rather have Bonner. Diaw not being aggressive with his shots makes me want to keep Bonner too.

I'm positive the Spurs share the same opinion. In other words, we're not getting Ariza. I'm not sure what salaries would match in a S&T with Blair, but anything is better than just letting him go. Maybe a late first round or second round Pick?

[coyotes_geek]

They are at $69 milllion in cap space. He is close to the luxury tax. Moving Ariza for Blair would clear up $3,000,000 (If they are willing to pay Blair $4 million this season) off the books allowing them to use there mid level (not a ton out there but...).

Or they could just cross Blair off their list and start looking for another player who they wouldn't have to give up their best trade asset to obtain.

Washington already used their full MLE on Martell Webster BTW.

[fleggy2k2]

after having Bonner for 7 years, I'll believe the Spurs are willing to part with him if/when it happens.

[Duncan2177]

I love the idea of Ariza in a Spurs uniform but i'm not sure if i actually would want to get rid of Bonner. As bad as he is defensively, he offers diversity in the offensive end something Ariza doesn't have. He's a great corner 3pt shooter, but he just doesn't have that same touch elsewhere. Playoff wise, I'd rather have Bonner. Diaw not being aggressive with his shots makes me want to keep Bonner too.

I'm positive the Spurs share the same opinion. In other words, we're not getting Ariza. I'm not sure what salaries would match in a S&T with Blair, but anything is better than just letting him go. Maybe a late first round or second round Pick?

You would rather have Bonner instead of Ariza? :lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

Bonner does add value with his 45% or so shooting from 3 at the 4. He's paid below the league average salary. Yes, he generally hasn't shown up in the postseason, though he did have a couple good series in the last playoffs.

He helps spread the floor and clear room for TD to post up and for the backcourt to drive to the rim. That's why Pop likes him.

That being said, of course he's expendable given other team needs, but Spurs fans need to get a grip if they think his contract is some kind of albatross or that he hasn't added value. As with other Spurs, if they met Spurs fan expectations the Spurs couldn't afford them. Figure it out.

[apalisoc_9]

You would rather have Bonner instead of Ariza? :lmao

The way the system is constructed, regardless of past playoff performances, Yes, I'd really rather have Bonner.

I'm sure the spurs feel the same way. You're not any smarter than the spurs F.O that's for sure.

[T Park]

Bonner does add value with his 45% or so shooting from 3 at the 4. He's paid below the league average salary. Yes, he generally hasn't shown up in the postseason, though he did have a couple good series in the last playoffs.

He helps spread the floor and clear room for TD to post up and for the backcourt to drive to the rim. That's why Pop likes him.

That being said, of course he's expendable given other team needs, but Spurs fans need to get a grip if they think his contract is some kind of albatross or that he hasn't added value. As with other Spurs, if they met Spurs fan expectations the Spurs couldn't afford them. Figure it out.


Damn. Fantastic post. 100% dead on.

[angelbelow]

Bonner is basically a double edged sword. He's extremely valuable during the regular season and has clearly contributed to a large number of victories over the years. Unfortunately, he hurts us greatly in the playoffs in different ways as well. Bonner not performing up to his regular season standards is the first problem. The 2nd is our inability to replace his production/minutes with other players. So its almost like playing with a specific but accurate weapon in the regular season only to shelf it for the playoffs.

[playblair]

:lol @ bonner spreading the floor in the playoffs...................................... blair will forever be a better big than bonner................ bonner/dyess = suns 2010 grizz 2011.........................

[ducks]

matt booner killed memphas with his d on zach
he also shot 40% from downtown this postseason
but to get a decent player you have to trade a good player

[xmas1997]

Not impressed with Ariza or anyone else on the Wizards, and from the sound of that report the Spurs feel the same.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ariza would allow Leonard to more easily play some 4 when match ups permit.

[CGD]

I stated this in an earlier post but I just don't think the spurs move bonner (nor should they in my opinion). Ariza for Blair (@4m) + Nando + Mills would work to acquire Ariza. Allows Spurs to resign Neal (or not) and keep that 15th roster spot open for either Oden or a training camp surprise like Thomas. It also has the happy benefits of clearing some of the SG log jam and addressing the backup SF slot. Makes too much sense not to happen.

[CGD]

Not impressed with Ariza or anyone else on the Wizards, and from the sound of that report the Spurs feel the same.
We're talking a out filling 15 minutes behind Leonard in the coming year, nothing less and nothing more. Ariza makes a lot of sense. Not looking for a quasi star, just a solid role player.

[CGD]

:toast


Bonner does add value with his 45% or so shooting from 3 at the 4. He's paid below the league average salary. Yes, he generally hasn't shown up in the postseason, though he did have a couple good series in the last playoffs.

He helps spread the floor and clear room for TD to post up and for the backcourt to drive to the rim. That's why Pop likes him.

That being said, of course he's expendable given other team needs, but Spurs fans need to get a grip if they think his contract is some kind of albatross or that he hasn't added value. As with other Spurs, if they met Spurs fan expectations the Spurs couldn't afford them. Figure it out.

[xmas1997]

I stated this in an earlier post but I just don't think the spurs move bonner (nor should they in my opinion). Ariza for Blair (@4m) + Nando + Mills would work to acquire Ariza. Allows Spurs to resign Neal (or not) and keep that 15th roster spot open for either Oden or a training camp surprise like Thomas. It also has the happy benefits of clearing some of the SG log jam and addressing the backup SF slot. Makes too much sense not to happen.

Maybe so, but I can't help thinking that if it were going to happen then it would have by now.

[Marcus Bryant]

1 Parker
2 Green

Bench
1 Joseph
2 Neal ?
2 Ginobili
2 De Colo
2 Belinelli

As it stands the Spurs have a traditional 5 guard rotation and then some, even before we see what happens with Neal.

[Spursfanfromafar]

And

2 Mills as well..

[freetiago]

Wittman: Wizards Need To Add Stretch Power Forward''
Randy Wittman thinks the Washington Wizards need to upgrade their frontcourt to include a power forward who can stretch opposing defenses.

“We do have to look probably at a bigger, from a bigger standpoint, maybe adding someone to the frontline of that nature. See if we can do that,” Wittman said. “We need to find a stretch-four. That’s always good to have the ability to go big, which we can obviously with Emeka (Okafor), Nene or Kevin (Seraphin). A situation where you can bang people, but you also want to have the ability where you can stretch the floor especially with the players we have now on the perimeter with John (Wall) and Bradley (Beal).”

The Wizards appear set in the backcourt and at the wing positions, but remain unsettled down low.

“We need to continue to see if we can add a piece to this team, whether that’s through picking up a free agent or a trade or making a move like that,” Wittman added. “I don’t think we’re going to relax now and we shouldn’t.”

Via Michael Lee/Washington Post


tbh..Bonner/Blair for Ariza
Bonner skillset will be missed in the reg season but Pop has gone to him less this year
Pendergraph signing actually makes sense then
Duncan/Splitter/Diaw/Pendergraph/Baynes
sign 1 more big to a vet min (Collins no homo)

Spurs have 3 bigs who can shoot a jumpshot then in Diaw/Pendergraph/Baynes
call it an offseason

another would be to get Ariza/Seraphin and Spurs sending back Blair/Bonner/guard (De Colo?)

[Marcus Bryant]

I could see 2 guards on the inactive list, but that would still leave one too many unless the idea is to run 3 guard lineups in lieu of having a backup 3. This glut of guards points to at least one upcoming transaction.

[Duncan2177]

The way the system is constructed, regardless of past playoff performances, Yes, I'd really rather have Bonner.

I'm sure the spurs feel the same way. You're not any smarter than the spurs F.O that's for sure.

So you would rather have a player that's going to choke in the playoffs year after year than have a player that contributed and helped his team win a championship?:rolleyes And no I don't think I'm smarter than the spurs F.O you dope.

[mosdef17]

Too bad. He's not. And he's a two-guard. At his absolute peak, he's not much better than Green was last season. Definitely not worth his deal to the Spurs.

Yeah after hearing that explanation it makes me think you only saw two Orlando games last season - the two vs. the Spurs. Guessing you never saw any Denver or Orlando games of his either. He's better off the dribble than Danny. Danny is a shooter whereas Afflalo is a scorer. They're actually quite different. He's definitely a two way player, there's no question he is a good defender. His contract is reasonable, maybe slightly overpaid but not drastically. When you say he's not worth it, all you'd be losing is Bonner and pick 25. Basically nothing. He's a guy that is much better on a good team than a young tanking team.

[racm]

Bonner does add value with his 45% or so shooting from 3 at the 4. He's paid below the league average salary. Yes, he generally hasn't shown up in the postseason, though he did have a couple good series in the last playoffs.

He helps spread the floor and clear room for TD to post up and for the backcourt to drive to the rim. That's why Pop likes him.

That being said, of course he's expendable given other team needs, but Spurs fans need to get a grip if they think his contract is some kind of albatross or that he hasn't added value. As with other Spurs, if they met Spurs fan expectations the Spurs couldn't afford them. Figure it out.

He's also an expiring contract. Though that doesn't mean much in the Spurs scheme.

[racm]

So you would rather have a player that's going to choke in the playoffs year after year than have a player that contributed and helped his team win a championship?:rolleyes And no I don't think I'm smarter than the spurs F.O you dope.

Aside from Ariza's 2009 run what has he done for a ring? I recall he tailed off after that, and I like him.

[Hoops Czar]

Ariza being overpaid has everything to do with his trade value below. I can't even believe you even tried to suggest it doesn't. He doesn't have a lot of value because he's not a worth his contract. If Ariza were making $2 Million a year, no one would care that he's been pretty bad since leaving the Lakers. But since he's making so much money, he's not as attractive to teams. That's simple trade economics.....
No Chinook, in hindsight, it was a decent contract. He was given his contract based on his production with LAL. Maybe it was presumptuous for Houston to think he could maintain that level of play, but that was then and this is now. A 7 million dollar expiring is NOT a bad contract and certainly one many contenders could easily absorb through a trade closer to the deadline. In any event, any player who can defend multiple positions, still in his early prime is much more of an asset than a Blair/Bonner combo. Blair is a ticking time bomb and Bonner's ability to stretch the floor is grossly overstated. Washington's inside-out game pales in comparison to the Spurs. Bonner wouldn't get nearly the open looks that he does here and he doesn't really bring anything else to the table. The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail. And if you read the OP, you would have realized that the Wizards are after Blair, not Bonner or any other garbage player San Antonio has no use for. You should really pay closer attention to my posts. I never said the Wizards would get a truck load of talent in return for Ariza, but they can certainly do better than a short term fix at PF in Blair and a throwaway garbage center in Bonner.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, Ariza definitely has his own question marks. If the Spurs were looking for a starter he would not be immediately appealing.

[racm]

Yeah, Ariza definitely has his own question marks. If the Spurs were looking for a starter he would not be immediately appealing.

But they're bringing back last year's defensively dominant starting 5.

[Chinook]

Yeah after hearing that explanation it makes me think you only saw two Orlando games last season - the two vs. the Spurs. Guessing you never saw any Denver or Orlando games of his either. He's better off the dribble than Danny. Danny is a shooter whereas Afflalo is a scorer. They're actually quite different. He's definitely a two way player, there's no question he is a good defender. His contract is reasonable, maybe slightly overpaid but not drastically. When you say he's not worth it, all you'd be losing is Bonner and pick 25. Basically nothing. He's a guy that is much better on a good team than a young tanking team.

His contract is not reasonable. He'd be the fourth-highest paid player on the team, and he'd barely be in the rotation. I've seen Afflalo for years, and no matter how "good" he is, he still puts up the same numbers as Green, and his all the sudden lack of shooting means he probably wouldn't get Green's starting gig or Ginobili's bench role, or Belinelli's instant-offense role. He's plain not worth the pick and the contract for a team that already has two good young defensive wings. Add in Afflalo's lack of height and Neal's re-signing, and there's no way that's a good trade. Orlando purposefully picked a two-guard when he was the centerpiece of the Howard deal (as we knew then).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ariza would allow Leonard to more easily play some 4 when match ups permit.

True and with the way the NBA is going playing various versions of small ball will help create good matchups.

[Chinook]

No Chinook, in hindsight, it was a decent contract. He was given his contract based on his production with LAL. Maybe it was presumptuous for Houston to think he could maintain that level of play, but that was then and this is now. A 7 million dollar expiring is NOT a bad contract and certainly one many contenders could easily absorb through a trade closer to the deadline. In any event, any player who can defend multiple positions, still in his early prime is much more of an asset than a Blair/Bonner combo. Blair is a ticking time bomb and Bonner's ability to stretch the floor is grossly overstated. Washington's inside-out game pales in comparison to the Spurs. Bonner wouldn't get nearly the open looks that he does here and he doesn't really bring anything else to the table. The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail. And if you read the OP, you would have realized that the Wizards are after Blair, not Bonner or any other garbage player San Antonio has no use for. You should really pay closer attention to my posts. I never said the Wizards would get a truck load of talent in return for Ariza, but they can certainly do better than a short term fix at PF in Blair and a throwaway garbage center in Bonner.

Having a bad contract now doesn't mean that it was always a bad contract. He is overpaid, because he's not as productive as it looked like he was going to be. If he were as good as everyone thought he'd become, then he'd have a fair deal. But the Rockets paid for potential, and it didn't pan out. Happens with most bad contracts. The fact that you fail to understand how trade value works explains our impasse pretty succinctly.

How many contenders really have $7 Million in expiring deals lying around that need a small-forward? Not many. Maybe Memphis, but with Prince's deal, it's not certain they have anything better than the Spurs have. And you should remember your own posts correctly. You said the Spurs getting him was a pipe-dream because they didn't have the assets for him. They have the first-round pick that's going to be the best possible offer Washington gets unless a team has to pay them to absorb some longer-term salary. You're right (now) that they won't get a truckload of talent for Ariza; they won't even get a sedan-load. Again, he was traded twice on this current contract: first for a near-bust (who became a full-time bust later that year) in Courtney Lee and the second as salary relief and a second-round pick. He hasn't ever been a highly coveted trade asset. I doubt that's going to change since he's had four straight years of below-average production.

And I read the OP where it said the Wizards want Blair and would like to shed salary or at least not have to pay much more, and I read the later articles that said they're looking for a stretch-four. It seems then that they would be interested in Bonner, whom (much to my chagrin) the Spurs have not officially tried to trade. The closest they've come is speculation that he was part of the Kirilenko attempted trade. But we don't know if they tried to trade another group of players for even Diaw. More importantly, Bonner's an expiring contract, which is worth as much as Ariza is if they let either one go to free agency.

You don't like Blair, and I don't either. But the Wizards do. And if they can get him and a player who plays a position of need and who's on an expiring deal for a player on an inflated salary who doesn't project to be in the rotation, it's a good deal, your views of Ariza's "value" notwithstanding.

[td4mvp2k]

:lol y'all are crazy if you think they'll give up Ariza.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wiz interested in Blair, also looking for a 4 who's a perimeter threat....there's a deal here somewhere.

Of course, Ariza's contract makes for a nice big expiring one to use at the trade deadline. Not sure the Wizards would give that up for Blair/Bonner.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Ariza is still a good defender of 3s and 2s. A perfect role playing swingman, who can shoot the 3, if he doesn't fall too much in love with that shot. The thing is he was being miscast as a starter-star kind of player in Houston and New Orleans. I think he finally got his niche as a role player who is very good at defense and takes his shots when given on offense, in the second half of last Wizards season.

I thought the best time to pry him was in the February deadline when he could have been got by trading SJax. The Wizards were flopping big time and it was a good time to snag Ariza for an expiring. The Spurs FO demurred then. They shouldn't let go of a chance now.

I suspect though that since Blair is already a free agent, the Wiz aren't looking to trade for him with assets and are rather trying to dump their own extras in Vesely, Singleton & Booker on the Spurs. And that explains Woj's tweet.

I don't want part of those three. The first is a big time flop who has regressed to become a huge bust in the NBA, the second is useless and the third is Blair-lite.

Either Ariza or Blair walks. And there is no issue with Bonner being traded as part of the S&T. He is surplus to the Spurs' requirements and fits the Wizards' needs.

Besides in Beal, Porter, Webster, the Wizards already have a decent swing/guard rotation. Ariza can be expendable.

[Marcus Bryant]

Problem is, they need a S&T as they are close to the lux tax threshold.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, that's the opportunity.

[mosdef17]

His contract is not reasonable. He'd be the fourth-highest paid player on the team, and he'd barely be in the rotation. I've seen Afflalo for years, and no matter how "good" he is, he still puts up the same numbers as Green, and his all the sudden lack of shooting means he probably wouldn't get Green's starting gig or Ginobili's bench role, or Belinelli's instant-offense role. He's plain not worth the pick and the contract for a team that already has two good young defensive wings. Add in Afflalo's lack of height and Neal's re-signing, and there's no way that's a good trade. Orlando purposefully picked a two-guard when he was the centerpiece of the Howard deal (as we knew then).

So many things wrong in one paragraph but I'll try get to it all...

'He'd be barely in the rotation'
- No, he would be playing backup SF minutes and a few minutes at SG. He would easily find nearly 20mins a game on this team. He deserves it too.

'Gary Neal re-signing'
- Yet to occur, my idea was based on the current roster. Neal is a free agent.

'Sudden lack of shooting'
- Expected when you're a the best player on a terrible team. Defences focus on you, you draw other teams best defenders etc.

'Same numbers as Green'
- Watch the games, not the box scores. As I said above, Defences focused on Afflalo whereas Green only shoots when WIDE open. Look at Afflalo's %'s when in Denver with a decent/similar core. 49.8% in 10/11 season. 47.1% in 11/12. Both season at 40% from 3.

'Lack of height'
- Yahoo has Afflalo billed as 6'5 and Kawhi as 6'6. You can argue length makes a difference, and it does, but Afflalo will have no trouble whatsoever guarding second string SG's or SF's. He would have to guard guys like Francisco Garcia, Jared Dudley, Harrison Barnes and Pondexter amongst other backup SF's in the West. He can guard all those guys with his eyes closed. Size is no issue there.

'Orlando purposefully drafted 2 SG's'
- Afflalo is going to be 28 soon, Orlando is 3-5 years away from being relevant. I don't think a 33 year old Afflalo factors into their plans no. Oladipo has been playing more PG than SG in summer league too for what it's worth.

'Contract is not reasonable'
- Name me another 15+ ppg scorer that doubles as a very very solid defender with the potential to shoot 40% from 3 that earns under $8m a season that's not currently on a rookie deal...

[MilesTeg]

Isn't Seraphin the obvious target? It would be better to get him than any other Wizard IMO.

[apalisoc_9]

Isn't Seraphin the obvious target? It would be better to get him than any other Wizard IMO.

The Wizards won't give up seraphin

[Spursfanfromafar]

So many things wrong in one paragraph but I'll try get to it all...

'...
'Contract is not reasonable'
- Name me another 15+ ppg scorer that doubles as a very very solid defender with the potential to shoot 40% from 3 that earns under $8m a season that's not currently on a rookie deal...

Green vs Afflalo last season per 36 minutes- (in advanced stats, Green easily overcomes Afflalo)



Rk
Player
Season
Age
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Arron Afflalo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html)
2012-13
27
64
64
2307
6.2
14.1
.439
1.1
3.7
.300
3.0
3.5
.857
0.5
3.3
3.7
3.2
0.6
0.2
2.2
2.1
16.5


2
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
2012-13
25
80
80
2201
4.9
10.8
.448
2.9
6.8
.429
1.1
1.3
.848
0.6
3.4
4.0
2.3
1.5
0.9
1.5
2.0
13.7



Salaries -

Afflalo - First year of $7.75 million with Orlando
Green - First year of $3.5 million with San Antonio.

Green is far more valuable than Afflalo as a comparison.

[mosdef17]

Green vs Afflalo last season per 36 minutes- (in advanced stats, Green easily overcomes Afflalo)



Rk
Player
Season
Age
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Arron Afflalo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html)
2012-13
27
64
64
2307
6.2
14.1
.439
1.1
3.7
.300
3.0
3.5
.857
0.5
3.3
3.7
3.2
0.6
0.2
2.2
2.1
16.5


2
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
2012-13
25
80
80
2201
4.9
10.8
.448
2.9
6.8
.429
1.1
1.3
.848
0.6
3.4
4.0
2.3
1.5
0.9
1.5
2.0
13.7



Salaries -

Afflalo - First year of $7.75 million with Orlando
Green - First year of $3.5 million with San Antonio.

Green is far more valuable than Afflalo as a comparison.


'Same numbers as Green'
- Watch the games, not the box scores. As I said above, Defences focused on Afflalo whereas Green only shoots when WIDE open. Look at Afflalo's %'s when in Denver with a decent/similar core. 49.8% in 10/11 season. 47.1% in 11/12. Both season at 40% from 3.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If you compare Afflalo at Denver couple of years ago and Green at SA this year-



Rk
Player
Season
Age
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Arron Afflalo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html)
2011-12
26
62
62
2086
5.7
12.1
.471
1.5
3.8
.398
3.4
4.3
.798
0.7
2.7
3.4
2.6
0.6
0.2
1.5
2.3
16.3


2
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
2012-13
25
80
80
2201
4.9
10.8
.448
2.9
6.8
.429
1.1
1.3
.848
0.6
3.4
4.0
2.3
1.5
0.9
1.5
2.0
13.7



Green comes off as more valuable, because his production matches that of Afflalo; his salary is less than half that of Afflalo's and his WS/48 stats are also better than Afflalo's. Even when Afflalo wasn't the primary option with Denver as Green isn't with SA.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Green is also a much better defender than Afflalo. Afflalo was a great defender until he realized that offense is what gets you paid.

[Kidd K]

Gee is a Cav. not a Wiz.

Speaking of Gee, I wish we kept him. He beasted summer league a few years ago. Sucked to see him get cut since all of us who watched summer league knew he was good.



Ariza would be a great backup SF option. He's the only one I'd be interested in a potential trade with Washington tbh.

Well we'd be getting something for basically nothing (except salary) either way. Giving a guy up in S & T is basically giving up nothing to get something. Spurs weren't gonna keep him anyway, so it's just like free stuff with no strings attached except their contract(s).

Though it's funny to look at some of their stats. Their team is packed to the gills with mediocrity. Vesely, a guy some here are saying we should go for, was literally 12/39 (30.8%) from the free throw line last year. That's. . .in a way kinda hilarious tbh.

[armynick23]

My thoughts are for the Spurs this should peak some interest. Option 1 trade Bonner and Blair for Ariza= Good, option 2 Bonner and Blair for Ariza and Vesely=even better. Spurs need a backup SF right now. Blair has not been in rotation last few seasons. So spurs should explore adding something for nothing. We are done with AK so drop that conversation.

[armynick23]

Have you not seen Jan Vesely, he screams spurs potential. Forget the numbers we can develop him.

[mosdef17]

If you compare Afflalo at Denver couple of years ago and Green at SA this year-



Rk
Player
Season
Age
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1
Arron Afflalo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html)
2011-12
26
62
62
2086
5.7
12.1
.471
1.5
3.8
.398
3.4
4.3
.798
0.7
2.7
3.4
2.6
0.6
0.2
1.5
2.3
16.3


2
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
2012-13
25
80
80
2201
4.9
10.8
.448
2.9
6.8
.429
1.1
1.3
.848
0.6
3.4
4.0
2.3
1.5
0.9
1.5
2.0
13.7



Green comes off as more valuable, because his production matches that of Afflalo; his salary is less than half that of Afflalo's and his WS/48 stats are also better than Afflalo's. Even when Afflalo wasn't the primary option with Denver as Green isn't with SA.

What point are you trying to make? Green is way way underpaid. You've selected a season after signing his contract extension, the year prior would be a more accurate depiction of what he was paid. I just don't get what you're trying to prove? You trying to say Afflalo is a bad player? Because, he's quite good. As good as Green? Who really cares. Theres not much between them. My trade idea had us keeping Green and adding Afflalo, it's not one or the other. Read the posts.

[coachmac87]

Afflalo is just a more complete player than Green. Period. End of debate

Afflalo earned his contract being a top defender in the league...Green earned his contract choking in the WCF..just stop trying to compare the two...y'all are looking like idiots

[Spursfanfromafar]

What point are you trying to make? Green is way way underpaid. You've selected a season after signing his contract extension, the year prior would be a more accurate depiction of what he was paid. I just don't get what you're trying to prove? You trying to say Afflalo is a bad player? Because, he's quite good. As good as Green? Who really cares. Theres not much between them. My trade idea had us keeping Green and adding Afflalo, it's not one or the other. Read the posts.

My point is that Afflalo will be redundant as we already have a Afflalo-or-slightly-better-than-Afflalo at the SG position.

We need a backup SF who will exclusively guard SFs and possibly even play as a small ball PF in a pinch (as a bonus).

Afflalo doesn't fit that criteria at all.

And I made the Green-Afflalo comparison because you made the argument that there was no one in the league who matched Afflalo's contributions and was paid a non-rookie salary. That argument is wrong for the Spurs already have one in Green.

[coyotes_geek]

The Wizards won't give up seraphin

Maybe. Maybe not. There's only so many 6'-7" to 6'-9" backup power forwards a team needs on it's roster, and if the Wizards add Blair while keeping Seraphin and Booker they'd have 3 of them backing up Nene.

[coyotes_geek]

In fact Washington's existing glut of mediocre backup bigs is another reason why they're not going to want to give up Ariza just to take on two more of them in Blair & Bonner.

While Blair is certainly an upgrade for them, it doesn't make much sense from their standpoint to take him on in a deal that doesn't ship one of their existing bigs out. Booker and a 2nd round pick or two is probably the type of deal the Spurs are being offered.

[K-State Spur]

A 7 million dollar expiring is NOT a bad contract and certainly one many contenders could easily absorb through a trade closer to the deadline. In any event, any player who can defend multiple positions, still in his early prime is much more of an asset than a Blair/Bonner combo. Blair is a ticking time bomb and Bonner's ability to stretch the floor is grossly overstated. Washington's inside-out game pales in comparison to the Spurs. Bonner wouldn't get nearly the open looks that he does here and he doesn't really bring anything else to the table. The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail. And if you read the OP, you would have realized that the Wizards are after Blair, not Bonner or any other garbage player San Antonio has no use for. You should really pay closer attention to my posts. I never said the Wizards would get a truck load of talent in return for Ariza, but they can certainly do better than a short term fix at PF in Blair and a throwaway garbage center in Bonner.

1) He's not early prime. For a player who, to date, has relied heavily on athleticism, he's near the end of it.

2) The one thing Spurs fans have never gotten with Bonner - it's not always about him getting & making open looks. His mere presence on the floor forces the opponent to stretch out their D outside of the paint. Since Nene can't hit jumpers anymore, they don't have a big on their roster than defenses have to respect outside of the lane. Driving lanes for Wall have been tough to come by.

3) "The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail." Not often, and they've never shown a willingness to just give him away. Just because the pieces didn't work doesn't mean that's not a movable deal.

4) For all the talk of Blair being a ticking time bomb, he's 24 and hasn't suffered a major injury in over 7 years. He's got a career PER of 17 & has adapted aspects of his game (i.e. floater) to play against bigger opponents. And his game may play better in East with the plethora of small ball teams in that conference. I don't agree with the Wizards, but there are reasons for them to like him as a bench guy in a low risk/bigger reward type move.

5) How movable is Ariza? He's paid beyond his production. His best value is as a role guy to a contender, but how many contenders have a need, the roster space, and the cap room to nab him? His expiring contract only has value to teams that are looking to shed longer term salary, which I'm guessing the Wizards don't want to take on.

That's not to say Washington would do it, but they might. Move a big salary that they have no use for, gain a stretch 4 with no long term commitment + sign an energy 4 to a low risk deal.

[K-State Spur]

In fact Washington's existing glut of mediocre backup bigs is another reason why they're not going to want to give up Ariza just to take on two more of them in Blair & Bonner.

While Blair is certainly an upgrade for them, it doesn't make much sense from their standpoint to take him on in a deal that doesn't ship one of their existing bigs out. Booker and a 2nd round pick or two is probably the type of deal the Spurs are being offered.

They've only got 3 legit bigs under contract for next year. You could say 5 if you count Vesely & Singleton as bigs. But you would be just as, if not more, apt to say they've got a glut of wings with 6 if you look at those guys as SFs.

And among all 4 & 5s, they're only committed to Nene beyond next season.

[cd021]

Or they could just cross Blair off their list and start looking for another player who they wouldn't have to give up their best trade asset to obtain.

Washington already used their full MLE on Martell Webster BTW.

I got my info from hoopsworld they said they had an MLE. I didnt realize they used it. Ariza isn't that great of an asset. Okafor is better asset. He has a massive expiring deal and in a bad season still managed almost 10pts and 9 rpgs in just 26 mpg. Ariza happens to be closer to our price range.

[cd021]

1) He's not early prime. For a player who, to date, has relied heavily on athleticism, he's near the end of it.

2) The one thing Spurs fans have never gotten with Bonner - it's not always about him getting & making open looks. His mere presence on the floor forces the opponent to stretch out their D outside of the paint. Since Nene can't hit jumpers anymore, they don't have a big on their roster than defenses have to respect outside of the lane. Driving lanes for Wall have been tough to come by.

3) "The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail." Not often, and they've never shown a willingness to just give him away. Just because the pieces didn't work doesn't mean that's not a movable deal.

4) For all the talk of Blair being a ticking time bomb, he's 24 and hasn't suffered a major injury in over 7 years. He's got a career PER of 17 & has adapted aspects of his game (i.e. floater) to play against bigger opponents. And his game may play better in East with the plethora of small ball teams in that conference. I don't agree with the Wizards, but there are reasons for them to like him as a bench guy in a low risk/bigger reward type move.

5) How movable is Ariza? He's paid beyond his production. His best value is as a role guy to a contender, but how many contenders have a need, the roster space, and the cap room to nab him? His expiring contract only has value to teams that are looking to shed longer term salary, which I'm guessing the Wizards don't want to take on.

That's not to say Washington would do it, but they might. Move a big salary that they have no use for, gain a stretch 4 with no long term commitment + sign an energy 4 to a low risk deal.

Great posting:tu

[cd021]

Afflalo is just a more complete player than Green. Period. End of debate

Afflalo earned his contract being a top defender in the league...Green earned his contract choking in the WCF..just stop trying to compare the two...y'all are looking like idiots

He vaildated his contract 10 fold in this past postseason. Afflalo is one of the best defenders in the league. Anyone have him inside there top 15?

[cd021]

Have you not seen Jan Vesely, he screams spurs potential. Forget the numbers we can develop him.

Right? I've been saying that. I like the guy he can be a perfect fit off the bench.

[coyotes_geek]

They've only got 3 legit bigs under contract for next year. You could say 5 if you count Vesely & Singleton as bigs. But you would be just as, if not more, apt to say they've got a glut of wings with 6 if you look at those guys as SFs.

And among all 4 & 5s, they're only committed to Nene beyond next season.

Sure, Nene's the only guy they're committed to, but they've got team options on Vessley & Singleton and Booker & Seraphine will be RFA's. It's entirely within their ability to retain as many of those guys as they choose. There's no reason there for them to waste Ariza just to add Blair & Bonner to that mix.

[K-State Spur]

Sure, Nene's the only guy they're committed to, but they've got team options on Vessley & Singleton and Booker & Seraphine will be RFA's. It's entirely within their ability to retain as many of those guys as they choose. There's no reason there for them to waste Ariza just to add Blair & Bonner to that mix.

It's within their ability to retain them, but also let them go if they prefer Blair/Bonner.

Personally, outside of Seraphin, if I had to actually play 2 of those guys in my rotation*, I'd rather have Blair/Bonner. Luckily, the Spurs have the luxury of TD, Tiago, & Diaw entrenched in the frontcourt rotation, Pendergraph as a very intriguing 4th option, and and have their own developmental bruiser. They can afford to part with those guys if it upgrades roster elsewhere.

* As opposed to keeping them on the roster for future developmental purposes

[mudyez]

I think its pretty easy: Wiz want to give us Vesely or Singleton (but not Seraphin) for Blair but Spurs don't like them. Maybe they talked about Ariza for Blair+Bonner/Neal but Wiz don't want Bonner/Neal. End of story.

[palangi]

I'd do blair and bonner for singleton and price.

Price gives us someone to push cojo. And we are just looking for a backup for leonard.

[coyotes_geek]

I got my info from hoopsworld they said they had an MLE. I didnt realize they used it. Ariza isn't that great of an asset. Okafor is better asset. He has a massive expiring deal and in a bad season still managed almost 10pts and 9 rpgs in just 26 mpg. Ariza happens to be closer to our price range.

Disagree about Okafor being the better trade asset. Ariza's got a high enough salary where you can package him with a couple of younger players and take on a huge salary while letting the other team reduce their payroll in the process. Not as easy to do with Okafor. Also, Ariza would be a lot more affordable if the acquiring team wanted to try to get something more out of the player than just being an expiring contract.

[K-State Spur]

Disagree about Okafor being the better trade asset. Ariza's got a high enough salary where you can package him with a couple of younger players and take on a huge salary while letting the other team reduce their payroll in the process. Not as easy to do with Okafor. Also, Ariza would be a lot more affordable if the acquiring team wanted to try to get something more out of the player than just being an expiring contract.

But who is looking to salary dump a longer team deal for a QUALITY player that the WIZARDS WOULD WANT?

Rondo's about all I could think of now, and that's at a spot Washington is already set. They can probably get more at trade deadline when 10-12 are clearly out of it, but that means they have to roll with what they have until then - and the Wizards have playoff aspirations for 13-14.

[coyotes_geek]

It's within their ability to retain them, but also let them go if they prefer Blair/Bonner.

Personally, outside of Seraphin, if I had to actually play 2 of those guys in my rotation*, I'd rather have Blair/Bonner. Luckily, the Spurs have the luxury of TD, Tiago, & Diaw entrenched in the frontcourt rotation, Pendergraph as a very intriguing 4th option, and and have their own developmental bruiser. They can afford to part with those guys if it upgrades roster elsewhere.

* As opposed to keeping them on the roster for future developmental purposes

I'm not arguing that Washington couldn't use Blair and even Bonner. From Washington's point of view it's just not worth giving up Ariza for. Like I said a couple of pages back, Washington's got bigger trade ideas in mind to use Ariza in than a Blair/Bonner combo. There's some pretty big name players who might get moved this year, and Ariza is the perfect piece to use in trying to go after them.

[coyotes_geek]

But who is looking to salary dump a longer team deal for a QUALITY player that the WIZARDS WOULD WANT?

Rondo's about all I could think of now, and that's at a spot Washington is already set. They can probably get more at trade deadline when 10-12 are clearly out of it, but that means they have to roll with what they have until then - and the Wizards have playoff aspirations for 13-14.

If the Wizards have playoff aspirations for this year then that's all the more reason not to waste Ariza on Blair & Bonner.

As for who's looking to salary dump a quality player, Eric Gordon is a good place to start. Tyreke Evans has made is reluctance to play SF well known.

Chicago is in a tough spot about what to do with Luol Deng, they're over the tax, have a boatload of money tied up in Rose, Noah, Boozer & Gibson, plus they've already got a Deng replacement in Butler who they're going to have to give an extension to next year.

How long until the knicks decide they've had enough of Amare?

Maybe Andre Miller would make a good mentor for John Wall?

There's plenty of opportunities out there for Washington to potentially make Ariza a part of.

[raybies]

So it would take a pick plus Blair/ bonner.

[K-State Spur]

If the Wizards have playoff aspirations for this year then that's all the more reason not to waste Ariza on Blair & Bonner.

As for who's looking to salary dump a quality player, Eric Gordon is a good place to start. Tyreke Evans has made is reluctance to play SF well known.

Chicago is in a tough spot about what to do with Luol Deng, they're over the tax, have a boatload of money tied up in Rose, Noah, Boozer & Gibson, plus they've already got a Deng replacement in Butler who they're going to have to give an extension to next year.

How long until the knicks decide they've had enough of Amare?

Maybe Andre Miller would make a good mentor for John Wall?

There's plenty of opportunities out there for Washington to potentially make Ariza a part of.

All of those proposals involve investing significant money into Spots where the Wizards already have young talent and/or just taking on TERRIBLE long term deals.

Now, that said, if you assume Washington's strategy is to get THE BEST POSSIBLE PLAYER for Ariza, then you're right - we're done here.

However, if you set their strategy to upgrading their roster while giving their young talent PT to develop all while maintaining salary flexibility going forward - then we might have a match. This latter strategy may not be the most probably scenario - but it's certainly quite plausible.

[xtremesteven33]

If we can land Ariza I say the offseason has been complete and we would be the deepest team in the NBA.

[Chinook]

So many things wrong in one paragraph but I'll try get to it all...

'He'd be barely in the rotation'
- No, he would be playing backup SF minutes and a few minutes at SG. He would easily find nearly 20mins a game on this team. He deserves it too.

'Gary Neal re-signing'
- Yet to occur, my idea was based on the current roster. Neal is a free agent.

'Sudden lack of shooting'
- Expected when you're a the best player on a terrible team. Defences focus on you, you draw other teams best defenders etc.

'Same numbers as Green'
- Watch the games, not the box scores. As I said above, Defences focused on Afflalo whereas Green only shoots when WIDE open. Look at Afflalo's %'s when in Denver with a decent/similar core. 49.8% in 10/11 season. 47.1% in 11/12. Both season at 40% from 3.

'Lack of height'
- Yahoo has Afflalo billed as 6'5 and Kawhi as 6'6. You can argue length makes a difference, and it does, but Afflalo will have no trouble whatsoever guarding second string SG's or SF's. He would have to guard guys like Francisco Garcia, Jared Dudley, Harrison Barnes and Pondexter amongst other backup SF's in the West. He can guard all those guys with his eyes closed. Size is no issue there.

'Orlando purposefully drafted 2 SG's'
- Afflalo is going to be 28 soon, Orlando is 3-5 years away from being relevant. I don't think a 33 year old Afflalo factors into their plans no. Oladipo has been playing more PG than SG in summer league too for what it's worth.

'Contract is not reasonable'
- Name me another 15+ ppg scorer that doubles as a very very solid defender with the potential to shoot 40% from 3 that earns under $8m a season that's not currently on a rookie deal...

He's not a 15ppg scorer in a system where he's not allowed to chuck. He certainly wouldn't get that many points as Leonard's back up (who'd only play 20 minutes if Kawhi spends a lot of time at power-forward). He literally has the same career per-minute scoring numbers as Green. He has worse rebounding numbers and slightly better assist numbers. All of his defensive numbers are worse. His PER and WS/48 have been abysmal. Best player on his team or not, his stats do not indicate that he's a good as you think he is.

Afflalo is too old to talk about his potential now. This is his seventh season in the league and his fifth seeing consistently big minutes. He's not going to get much better. He could get back to his old days of shooting but that wouldn't be worth his contract. The fact that you think it's fine to pay him almost $8 Million a year for the next three years to get 20 minutes behind Leonard is mind-boggling. By the way, Leonard is 6-6 without shoes, while Afflalo is 6-5 with shoes. So their true height difference is at least two inches and in their standing reach is five inches (6-9 wingspan for Afflalo compared to a 7-3 Leonard). Even Green is taller and longer than Afflalo. He has had a bad defensive rating every year but his rookie season. I guess he may be decent at on-ball defense, he's not good at team defense, and he certainly doesn't make a lot of impact defensive plays.

I don't mean to say that Afflalo is a terrible player. He's not that bad, and he probably would be an asset on the team. But he makes no sense for the Spurs, as he'd be the fourth wing at best and makes way too much money to play there. I was going to say that I wouldn't mind taking him on as part of some big trade where the Spurs got rid of Green and added Afflalo and some other pieces, I actually don't think so. Afflalo is too old to grow with Leonard. I would not feel good about him being one of the three contracts (four when Parker gets extended next off-season) that are on the books for the post-Big Three era. You could sell me on some young players to try to make a trade for, but not for him. He's not a good fit for the present or future.

[tuncaboylu]

If the Wizards have playoff aspirations for this year then that's all the more reason not to waste Ariza on Blair & Bonner.

It's not wasting Ariza for Bonner & Blair. Bonner is also expiring. They're losing 7 million expiring but getting 4 million expiring. That 3 million can be filler by another guy in a trade.

[spursince#99]

I guess we're not even looking at the possibility to add a backup small forward as this opportunity is a no brainer.

[chrhawk]

If the Spurs are able to land Ariza or any athletic back-up SF before next year's trade deadline, then missing out on AK-47 becomes a non-issue.

[MeloHype]

If the Spurs are able to land Ariza or any athletic back-up SF before next year's trade deadline, then missing out on AK-47 becomes a non-issue.
Nice sig lmao

[chrhawk]

Nice sig lmao

What can I say? I have a strange sense of humor tbh.

[MeloHype]

What can I say? I have a strange sense of humor tbh.
Black comedy >>>>>>
tbh

[LakerHater]

356512525866639360

[Kindergarten Cop]

356512525866639360

Does this confirm that there are no ongoing talks with Washington? :lol

[LakerHater]

Does this confirm that there are no ongoing talks with Washington? :lol

Nets

[Baam]

The Nets don't have any openings, they are beyond stacked, I think he's going to the Clips or to Miami.

[benefactor]

Don't expect to see anything today.

356510501494210560

[Baam]

^ in Vegas?

[benefactor]

Yes.

[Baam]

Interesting, maybe scouting Vesely and Singleton...

Wish they didn't sign Pendergraph and got Vesely instead as a project big... And then they'd still have room for Thomas.

[Baam]

Washington is playing right now btw. Vesely having another solid game according to the box score.

[yavozerb]

Interesting, maybe scouting Vesely and Singleton...

Wish they didn't sign Pendergraph and got Vesely instead as a project big... And then they'd still have room for Thomas.

Keyword from message is "ALOT of games", not just the Wiz..

[Chinook]

Interesting, maybe scouting Vesely and Singleton...

Wish they didn't sign Pendergraph and got Vesely instead as a project big... And then they'd still have room for Thomas.

Why don't they now? It's not like Vesely was going to take those minutes. He can't shoot at all, and so he he'd have to play the four in Pop's system (if not the five). Also, it's possible that the team doesn't consider Pendergraph that big of a project. After all, they did decide to sign him while also attempting to trade one of Bonner and Diaw for Kirilenko.

If Thomas shows he can play the three, he'll get a contract and someone else will be moved.

[benefactor]

RC sounded pretty high on Pendergraph in his interview. I think they expect him to contribute this season.

[Bruno]

GMs, FOs, scouts are usually watching a lot of the SL games. There are nothing strange with that. They are especially looking at players worth a training camp invite or who could fit with their D-League team (if they have one).

Aside of that, it's not because we have heard nothing since the Woj tweet/article that this S&T won't happen. Spurs and Wizards can still be negotiating and/or looking at a third team to include in the trade.

[yavozerb]

Pendergraph is >>>>>> better than Vesely and makes about 1mil less.

[benefactor]

Pendergraph is >>>>>> better than Vesely and makes about 1mil less.
Agreed.

[Baam]

Why don't they now? It's not like Vesely was going to take those minutes. He can't shoot at all, and so he he'd have to play the four in Pop's system (if not the five). Also, it's possible that the team doesn't consider Pendergraph that big of a project. After all, they did decide to sign him while also attempting to trade one of Bonner and Diaw for Kirilenko.

If Thomas shows he can play the three, he'll get a contract and someone else will be moved.

Most likely indeed.

[Baam]

Pendergraph is >>>>>> better than Vesely and makes about 1mil less.

Indiana thought he was only worth the minimum... Vesely is worse but probably has a higher ceiling...

[playblair]

Interesting, maybe scouting Vesely and Singleton...

Wish they didn't sign Pendergraph and got Vesely instead as a project big... And then they'd still have room for Thomas.

vesely is not a big.......................... vesely admitted to being afraid of contact........................

[playblair]

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee re-sign :worthy:

356512525866639360

[Baam]

vesely is not a big.......................... vesely admitted to being afraid of contact........................

Vesely = dunking ninja and best kisser of his draft class
Dunking ninjas are better than dancing bears tbh.

Oyvz4kMNiTo

[freetiago]

Playblair you do realize you can stan Blair on whatever team he joins
he doenst have to play for SA and ride the bench

[playblair]

^ bruh tiago/blair compliment each other very well..................... its no longer an either/or................. we can unite ................... blair = rebounding splitter = defense................. splitter/blair = PNR............... trade bonner.....................

[CGD]

For those who saw him in Europe how is vesely's defense? Can he guard the 3 and 4?

[Chinook]

He actually played a lot at the five last game (the one before today). I think that will end up being his NBA position. I wouldn't write him off completely, as he's clearly transitioning from combo-forward to full-time big man. But right now, he looks like he's farther away from contributing in the NBA than Richards, who looks far away himself.

[yavozerb]

He actually played a lot at the five last game (the one before today). I think that will end up being his NBA position. I wouldn't write him off completely, as he's clearly transitioning from combo-forward to full-time big man. But right now, he looks like he's farther away from contributing in the NBA than Richards, who looks far away himself.

Wow, now thats a scary thought..Hell, maybe we could even entice the Wiz with Richards in that case..:lol

[Agloco]

I think its pretty easy: Wiz want to give us Vesely or Singleton (but not Seraphin) for Blair but Spurs don't like them. Maybe they talked about Ariza for Blair+Bonner/Neal but Wiz don't want Bonner/Neal. End of story.

Gotta disagree. Grunfeld is on record as saying that he covets a stretch four to compliment Nene and their other bigs. Given that they also on record as being interested in Blair, a Blair/Bonner for whomever-type deal is not out of the question.

[kobyz]

Jan Vesely right now have close to no value, don't know why some of you seems to want him, he is miles away from being able to contribute somthing anytime soon, and also future wise i personally didn't see in him much potential, he has no skills... i much prefer the other options, Singleton could be solid backup, Booker can be an improvment over Blair, even Glen Rice Jr is a nice prospect for the future who fits well...

[TheGreatYacht]

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee re-sign :worthy:

356512525866639360With the cHeat?

[Chinook]

Wow, now thats a scary thought..Hell, maybe we could even entice the Wiz with Richards in that case..:lol

I wouldn't. Richards has a higher ceiling than Vesely does. Once the Spurs actually give him a camp invite, he'll probably bounce around from team to team for almost a decade before they finally give up on him. This is probably Vesely's penultimate contract.

No question if given the choice, Singleton would get the nod from me.

[Baam]

I wouldn't. Richards has a higher ceiling than Vesely does. Once the Spurs actually give him a camp invite, he'll probably bounce around from team to team for almost a decade before they finally give up on him. This is probably Vesely's penultimate contract.

No question if given the choice, Singleton would get the nod from me.

Ok I didn't say anything the first time but here you go a second time, so not only is Richards the scrub playing in the scrubiest league you can imagine with kids and fat people more nba ready than Vesely but he also has a higher ceiling...

Let's just say I'm not with you on that one....................

[Chinook]

Ok I didn't say anything the first time but here you go a second time, so not only is Richards the scrub playing in the scrubiest league you can imagine with kids and fat people more nba ready than Vesely but he also has a higher ceiling...

Let's just say I'm not with you on that one....................

What do you think is Vesely's ceiling? Honestly, I don't know since he really has no NBA skills at all except dunking. He can't dribble, can't shoot, can't defend, can barely rebound. I don't think Washington will pick up his option these season, and I think he'll get one more contract after that, since hell, Thabeet also got another contract. MAYBE he can learn to be a center and stay for another contract. But that's a big maybe.

Richards has the physical skills to be a really good NBA player. He already can shoot, handle the ball and rebound. And he has quick feet for his size. He's taller and longer than Vesely, in addition to being younger. His problem is that he just has no awareness on a basketball court. So it seems pretty easy to fix, which will lead to him getting multiple contracts and sitting on the bench as a worst-case scenario.

So yeah, I think Richards has much more potential than Vesely. You can see what type of player he could become, which is a tremendous mismatch at the five. Vesely would need to figure a lot of things out just to have a position. He's young enough to do that, I agree. But even then, what's his upside? Maybe Bredan Wright as he is now?

[playblair]

^agree richards will be a spurs rotation player in near future ..................................

[Raven]

For those who saw him in Europe how is vesely's defense? Can he guard the 3 and 4?

No, neither. Fouls out so quickly it's pathetic.

[Texas_Ranger]

Jan Vesely sucks a lot, but damn Richards sucks more.

I guess none of you watched Vesely in Europe cause for a 19 year old he was playing great there. Thats why he was the 6th pick while Richars who plays in a shitty league in Austria was a late second rounder.

[Baam]

What do you think is Vesely's ceiling? Honestly, I don't know since he really has no NBA skills at all except dunking. He can't dribble, can't shoot, can't defend, can barely rebound. I don't think Washington will pick up his option these season, and I think he'll get one more contract after that, since hell, Thabeet also got another contract. MAYBE he can learn to be a center and stay for another contract. But that's a big maybe.

Richards has the physical skills to be a really good NBA player. He already can shoot, handle the ball and rebound. And he has quick feet for his size. He's taller and longer than Vesely, in addition to being younger. His problem is that he just has no awareness on a basketball court. So it seems pretty easy to fix, which will lead to him getting multiple contracts and sitting on the bench as a worst-case scenario.

So yeah, I think Richards has much more potential than Vesely. You can see what type of player he could become, which is a tremendous mismatch at the five. Vesely would need to figure a lot of things out just to have a position. He's young enough to do that, I agree. But even then, what's his upside? Maybe Bredan Wright as he is now?

With Vesely I see flashes on defense, he's a good athlete with a lot of speed, I think he could become better than Splitter if developped properly... Let's not forget that a 27 years old Splitter was hacked successfully...

With Richard, I don't see a nba player but he might get it together and explode one day but right now I don't even see flashes...

[Marcus Bryant]

Gotta disagree. Grunfeld is on record as saying that he covets a stretch four to compliment Nene and their other bigs. Given that they also on record as being interested in Blair, a Blair/Bonner for whomever-type deal is not out of the question.

Right. Most likely Wiz started with offering trash. Spurs demurred. At some point if Washington is still interested in Blair then they'll come back.

Ariza's expiring contract in and of itself has value at $7+MM. That could facilitate a significant deal at the deadline. Spurs may have to give up a pick as well. Of course, the Wizards are bumping up against the lux tax and if they really want Blair, they need the S&T.

[NickiRasgo]

Vesely's form and how he play looks a poor man's Kirilenko to me. He can't shoot either.

[FireMicoHalili]

Vesely is terrible, but guy has potential. Rafael Uehara speaks highly of him. Also read an article that he might have a chance to grow had he been with the Spurs.

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/05/21/how-did-the-spurs-get-a-player-like-kawhi-leonard/

Shaky jumpshot, bad FT shooting, wire thin, but the guy runs like a gazelle, is tall for his position (6'11"), and has above-average athleticism for a Euro. Might work well in small-ball line-ups.

[sexinthatsx]

Bonner and Blair S+T for either Trevor Ariza or Kevin Seraphin.

Trevor Ariza will help fill the backup SF position we need badly.

However, Kevin Seraphin will serve as a GREAT backup PF from France who can build good rapport with Tony Parker and is young, so he can play big minutes while giving Duncan rest.

[sexinthatsx]

Oh and for those who are good at crunching numbers:

the salary for Trevor is already posted, but Kevin Seraphin's salary number:
2.7 for 2013-2014, and 3.8 mil qualifying offer for 2014-2015

[poop]

ariza...good..would be to get

[sasffl]

Seraphin or Booker please

[jimo2305]

well this thread escalated quickly..

lol at the 'lets get ariza' comments.. when leonard and bellinelli can run at the 3

i wish for once, spurs would actually get a good bigman.. if it were possible to get nene from the wizards, that'd be my pick, he may be bit older than he was during his glory days but he still won't get swatted 10 times a game

[Yuixafun]

The Lakers won the following season. He left after the Magic finals. Metta came and they beat Boston the next year. The Lakers still made the semi's the next two years after and the postseason this season. Its not like the franchise went to hell he played well there. The point you're making is that he plays well on winning teams (I assume) that could be the case but Ariza stunk in Houston and N.O. He has been injured in Washington this past season. One would hope he'd be consistent throughout.

Yes you are right I stand corrected!

And yeah... Ariza is the icing on the cake kinda player.

[cd021]

Disagree about Okafor being the better trade asset. Ariza's got a high enough salary where you can package him with a couple of younger players and take on a huge salary while letting the other team reduce their payroll in the process. Not as easy to do with Okafor. Also, Ariza would be a lot more affordable if the acquiring team wanted to try to get something more out of the player than just being an expiring contract.

Okafor is a solid locker room guy and has been a proven commodity in the NBA. He's only 29 (young for a center) solid defender, rebounds and blocks shots, and puts up a decent amount of points as well. A $14 million dollar expiring contract could allow them to take a chance without taking on filler or sending out other players.

For example they could move him for a player like Carlos Boozer. The Bulls would jump at the chance to get out of his 2 remaining seasons and Okafor doesn't have to start there. The Wiz get a floor spacer and a good post player, who has actually played better the last couple of seasons after underwhelming his year season (post signing).


They could do something like this instead...

Kings Get

Emeka Okafor

Wizards Get
John Salmons (expiring deal)
Patrick Patterson-Young and talented. Hasn't had a consistent role in part because he was buried in the depth chart in Houston. 15.8 PER and can hit 3's and defends post players fairly well.
Jimmer Freddette-A former lotto pick, lost playing time to Thomas, and Evans. Can shoot and could be a evolve into a nice player off the bench.

Ariza is a backup SF in this league paying him 7.7 million (even though its expiring) isn't very attractive. He is somewhat vauable to playoff teams but few can afford him without giving up a rotation player and a cheap prospect. Those teams would be better off playing a bigger guard at SF (if they have one, which we do in Beli, Manu and Green)

[cd021]

Yes you are right I stand corrected!

And yeah... Ariza is the icing on the cake kinda player.

Thats alway been my impression. Fairly average on bad teams valuable on winning teams. Then again he hasn't been on a winning team in 4 seasons, so thing may have changed. Vessely would be the post option in my opinion.

[therealtruth]

Blair could actually have contributed against the Heat. With their lack of shotblockers he would have scored inside easily. Just undercases Pop's lack of ability to make adjustments when they count (starting Ginobili is not an adjustment).

[Brutalis]

Scola

[Agloco]

(starting Ginobili is not an adjustment).

Not to start a debate, but I am most curious. What would you call it?

[Yuixafun]

When Ginobili started

my immediate reaction was...

Damn... Pop had to play his trump card early.

I always figured Manu would be worth 1 victory.

I had a feeling Pop was trynna hold out until it a close out game,

Because we saw How horrible Manu played in game 6, after Miami had time to adjust.

[Sean Cagney]

Thats alway been my impression. Fairly average on bad teams valuable on winning teams. Then again he hasn't been on a winning team in 4 seasons, so thing may have changed. Vessely would be the post option in my opinion.

YEP, good role player.

[Texas_Ranger]

I'd give them Nando for free.

[Taking it to the Hole]

I'd give them Nando for free.


Unfortuantely, I highly doubt they would even want him hanging around their locker room. He might be prone to getting ideas thinking he is actually an NBA player.

[Chinook]

Send De Colo to Utah. Also get rid of another guard. This embotellamiento is doing none of them any good.

[Chinook]

Since we pretty posted everything Spurs-related from this guy, I though I'd pass along this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj_JyPZ03oE

[monkeypunk]

Since we pretty posted everything Spurs-related from this guy, I though I'd pass along this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj_JyPZ03oE

Jan sounds like a drunk ass Dirk in that clip, :lol

[BatManu20]

Jan Vessely has been a colossal bust thus far. And doesn't appear to have much skill at all. Would rather get Seraphin if possible.

[FireMicoHalili]

I'd be legit pissed if we get Booker. Intense player, great physicality, has two ACLs...but I'd prefer Seraphin or Vesely

[BatManu20]

Ariza is likely a pipe dream. Doubt the Wizards would trade him for Blair. But, he is in the last year of his contract so maybe they'd be willing to make a trade. Who knows.

[Agloco]

Ariza is likely a pipe dream. Doubt the Wizards would trade him for Blair. But, he is in the last year of his contract so maybe they'd be willing to make a trade. Who knows.

Salaries don't match. Would need to do a Blair/Bonner type deal to make it work.

[Proxy]

Let's offer Blair and Bonner to every team in the league for their best player and see what happens. It's a logical thing to do when you think about it.

[PlayNando]

Unfortuantely, I highly doubt they would even want him hanging around their locker room. He might be prone to getting ideas thinking he is actually an NBA player.
Take it to the sewer, you fool.

[PlayNando]

I'd give them Nando for free.
The stupidity on this forum knows no bounds, tbh.

[tesseractive]

The stupidity on this forum knows no bounds, tbh.

Any thoughts on summer league?

[exstatic]

Let's offer Blair and Bonner to every team in the league for their best player and see what happens. It's a logical thing to do when you think about it.

Hyperbole fail. Ariza isn't their best player. He isn't even their best SF. He's third string, and making almost $8M.

[Brazil]

15 pages thread... we aren't gonna do a S&T with Washington

[xmas1997]

Hyperbole fail. Ariza isn't their best player. He isn't even their best SF. He's third string, and making almost $8M.

Correct, it would have happened by now!

[Spur|n|Austin]

15 pages thread... we aren't gonna do a S&T with Washington

Good ole off-season at ST :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

According to his instagram...he posted a picture of him looking depressed, and the caption was something like..." a lot on my mind right now". Maybe he got the news that no one wants him, and that he's gonna have to ride the bench another year with us.....

[ace3g]

Saw this tweet at the corner of my eye and thought it was Woj confirming a trade for Ariza, lol

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Washington forward Trevor Ariza -- a free agent next summer -- has signed with agent Rob Pelinka of Landmark Sports, league source tells Y!

[look_at_g_shred]

Saw this tweet at the corner of my eye and thought it was Woj confirming a trade for Ariza, lol

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Washington forward Trevor Ariza -- a free agent next summer -- has signed with agent Rob Pelinka of Landmark Sports, league source tells Y!



Well one thing to keep in mind is that when it was announced that Ellis signed with a new agent, a few hours later he signed with the Mavs. So we will see...

[ohmwrecker]

It's too bad NDC has destroyed his trade value by sucking so hard.

[Brazil]

Good ole off-season at ST :lol

:lol

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

According to his instagram...he posted a picture of him looking depressed, and the caption was something like..." a lot on my mind right now". Maybe he got the news that no one wants him, and that he's gonna have to ride the bench another year with us.....

I think that was about the Trayvon Martin case and verdict.

[Kindergarten Cop]

One "Washington Wizards writer" thinks that Seraphin may be the player that is involved in the possible S/T.

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/07/15/washington-wizards-rumors-dejuan-blair-whispers-dont-bode-well-for-kevin-seraphin/

[Spur|n|Austin]

One "Washington Wizards writer" thinks that Seraphin may be the player that is involved in the possible S/T.

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/07/15/washington-wizards-rumors-dejuan-blair-whispers-dont-bode-well-for-kevin-seraphin/

Interesting..

[AFBlue]

15 pages thread... we aren't gonna do a S&T with Washington

The AK thread that speculated no deal reached like 25 pages before he signed with Brooklyn.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i hope its for seraphin. i wouldnt mind singleton or vesely. ariza wouldnt be horrible. but id rather see them aquire somebody who can play small ball big.

[TXstbobcat]

Please find a way to include decolo in the trade.

[ChumpDumper]

356510501494210560That's what player development people do, genius. Sean has a roster to fill with scrubs in November.

[coachmac87]

If Spurs get Seraphin thatd be amazing...

[Proxy]

Hyperbole fail. Ariza isn't their best player. He isn't even their best SF. He's third string, and making almost $8M.

truth bomb

Well he's got an agent so I've got my fingers crossed.

[Hoops Czar]

Having a bad contract now doesn't mean that it was always a bad contract. He is overpaid, because he's not as productive as it looked like he was going to be. If he were as good as everyone thought he'd become, then he'd have a fair deal. But the Rockets paid for potential, and it didn't pan out. Happens with most bad contracts. The fact that you fail to understand how trade value works explains our impasse pretty succinctly.

Stop with the dramatization already. Nobody expected him to be a world beater. Houston signed him because of youth, potential and his production in LAL. It was a contract year for Ariza and Houston took a gamble and it didn't pay off like they had hoped. However, he was hardly. Bust. He's only had one real consistently good year, that being in LA, for his career. If you had higher expectations, then that's on you but nobody thought much of him when he entered the league and most people in the know were shocked that Houston offered up that kind of money to a glorified role player.. Heck, he was traded 4 times before landing his deal with the Rockets which should hep to clue you in to the type of player he was.


How many contenders really have $7 Million in expiring deals lying around that need a small-forward?
Not San Antonio.


And you should remember your own posts correctly. You said the Spurs getting him was a pipe-dream because they didn't have the assets for him. They have the first-round pick that's going to be the best possible offer Washington gets unless a team has to pay them to absorb some longer-term salary.
Salaries have to match and a future draft pick counts as $0 dollars. I'm also inclined to think the Spurs are more apt to keep their futures with rebuilding right around the corner unless some organization offers them up a deal they can't refuse. Any deal involving Ariza would almost certainly have to include Bonner, and like I said before, Bonner is untradeable.


And I read the OP where it said the Wizards want Blair and would like to shed salary or at least not have to pay much more, and I read the later articles that said they're looking for a stretch-four. It seems then that they would be interested in Bonner, whom (much to my chagrin) the Spurs have not officially tried to trade. The closest they've come is speculation that he was part of the Kirilenko attempted trade. But we don't know if they tried to trade another group of players for even Diaw. More importantly, Bonner's an expiring contract, which is worth as much as Ariza is if they let either one go to free agency.

Then you missed Wojo's tweet about how it's unclear whether the Spurs are interested in anything Washington has to offer. Furthermore, the majority of teams in the league could use a stretch four but that doesn't mean they need/want Bonner. It's not a coincidence that Bonner's minutes have plummeted in each of the last three seasons. If you open your eyes, you'd see what the rest of the league sees and have realized for quite some time, he isn't very good at his job. And if he were, the Spurs wouldn't need to pursue players like Baynes and Pendergragh as rotational replacements. Bonner is playing out his final season as a Spur. If the Spurs do manage to find a suitable trade partner, it will most likely be at the trade deadline when teams only have to pay a portion of his 4M owed.


You don't like Blair, and I don't either. But the Wizards do. And if they can get him and a player who plays a position of need and who's on an expiring deal for a player on an inflated salary who doesn't project to be in the rotation, it's a good deal, your views of Ariza's "value" notwithstanding.
I like Blair but thinks he's a ticking time bomb. It's only speculation as too how much interest the Wizards actually have and what they're willing to offer up so we'll have to wait and see. But what I can tell you is that from every article I've read, none of them had Washington interested in Bonner. While I may sell a little high on Ariza as a role player and a backup to Kawhi, the value you're placing on Bonner is flat out laughable.

.... Now back to my vacation.

[Chinook]

The whole of your post is just flat-out dumb, but this part takes the cake:


How many contenders really have $7 Million in expiring deals lying around that need a small-forward?


Not San Antonio.

The Spurs certainly do have that $7 Million in expirings. They can certainly offer those and a first for Ariza, which is the best that any team will do at the deadline. Unless you're insinuating that the Spurs aren't a contender, it's incredibly clear that you fundamentally don't understand any of this. You just want to argue. No wonder people say you haven't had a good take on this board.

[playblair]

357322899847262209

[Texas_Ranger]

So the Wizards need to do a S&T or they can just sign him??

[ducks]

they are very close to the tax

[ohmwrecker]

So the Wizards need to do a S&T or they can just sign him??

Yep. Booker and Ariza are the names being tossed around right now, but the Spurs don't want Booker.

[Chinook]

So the Wizards need to do a S&T or they can just sign him??

To a minimum deal, yeah. They'd have to use a S&T to give him anything more, though.

Maybe De Colo's good game gave some team the confidence they needed to work out a trade. :stirpot:

[DPG21920]

:lol That would be funny. "Nando, you can't play in SL because you have just been traded".

[TXstbobcat]

So we are possibly looking at sending Blair and Nando to the wizards?

[DPG21920]

I just don't know - doesn't it seem likely Blair will get only a min offer? Despite his production/advanced numbers warranting more, he has a lot of flaws and injury risks (although, nothing to date suggests any actual injury risks).

[ducks]

they are 2 million from tax

[Chinook]

I just don't know - doesn't it seem likely Blair will get only a min offer? Despite his production/advanced numbers warranting more, he has a lot of flaws and injury risks (although, nothing to date suggests any actual injury risks).

I think he'll get more than that, but not by much. If a S&T happened, I'd think Blair's deal would be something like $9M/3 with the last two years completely non-guaranteed.

[ohmwrecker]

If they were going offer him a min. deal, he would probably be a Wiz already.

[NASpurs]

Ah yes, that great source NBA_troop. Let's just stop the semen cloud right now before it gets out of hand. Prove me wrong.

[Texas_Ranger]

I don't think it will be De Colo. Just look at their guards. Wall, Beal, Webster, Maynor, Temple amnd Rice Jr. Nando would probably just sit on the bench there. Now if they want him for his contract I am all in.

[Chinook]

So we are possibly looking at sending Blair and Nando to the wizards?

Thinking more along the lines of using a De Colo salary dump as a means to circumvent Blair's BYC issues. Right now, it'd be hard to trade Blair by himself.

[DPG21920]

If they were going offer him a min. deal, he would probably be a Wiz already.

You would think, but for a guy signing a min offer, he would surely shop himself around as long as he could before accepting that deal.

[Texas_Ranger]

If it was for a min he'd probably signs for some better team. I think it'll be something like 3Y/9M.

[PlayNando]

Well, if Pop can't get his own head out of his ass and play Nando, perhaps it would be best to have Nando move to Washington where he can start, tbh... :(

[playblair]

^ nando/blair PNR = :wow.......................

[Chinook]

I'd be more interested in seeing that PlayNando/playblair PnR on WizardsTalk, honestly. Well not seeing it, but knowing it's there and not here.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

^ nando/blair PNR = :wow.......................
Word............imagine a wall/blair PNR tho....................

[TXstbobcat]

Well, if Pop can't get his own head out of his ass and play Nando, perhaps it would be best to have Nando move to Washington where he can start, tbh... :(

:lol He's not going to start for Washington either.

[Hoops Czar]

The whole of your post is just flat-out dumb, but this part takes the cake:





The Spurs certainly do have that $7 Million in expirings. They can certainly offer those and a first for Ariza, which is the best that any team will do at the deadline. Unless you're insinuating that the Spurs aren't a contender, it's incredibly clear that you fundamentally don't understand any of this. You just want to argue. No wonder people say you haven't had a good take on this board.

So this donkey has bite. The more you post, the more clueless you sound. The Spurs aren't giving up a first round pick for Blair and unless they trade Bonner which they've been trying to do for the past two seasons, Ariza is an imposibility. The fact that you think De Colo is an option just adds to the absurdity of this whimsical retort. Washington wants actual contributing players, not a bunch of junk in the trunk that hardy Spurs fans want to deep six unless you're insinuating the Spurs can't be contenders without Ariza, or in your own words, a player that isn't any good. And your takes are nothing to write home about. I don't post for ratings, glory and pats on the back so I don't really care what other people think. If I was posting for Timvp's approval in every one of my posts, I'd fill my posts with more fluff like you..

[Chinook]

The more you post, the more clueless you sound. The Spurs aren't giving up a first round pick for Blair and unless they trade Bonner which they've been trying to do for the past two seasons, Ariza is an imposibility.

Great juxtaposition of statements right there, man. It doesn't matter if you meant, "The Spurs aren't giving up a first-round pick for Ariza," or, "The Wizards aren't giving up a first-round pick for Blair." Either statement would be completely counter to the entire point you're trying to make. Also, Bonner's an expiring contract. That's the major part of his usefulness. So the doesn't have to be salary-dumped like you seem to think he does. No matter how bad of a player he is, he still has value until the trade deadline -- again, you need to understand trade economics before you try to discuss them.

[FireMicoHalili]

ahh, internet courage *stirs coffee*

[Hoops Czar]

Great juxtaposition of statements right there, man. It doesn't matter if you meant, "The Spurs aren't giving up a first-round pick for Ariza," or, "The Wizards aren't giving up a first-round pick for Blair." Either statement would be completely counter to the entire point you're trying to make. Also, Bonner's an expiring contract. That's the major part of his usefulness. So the doesn't have to be salary-dumped like you seem to think he does. No matter how bad of a player he is, he still has value until the trade deadline -- again, you need to understand trade economics before you try to discuss them.
Well...


They (Spurs) have the first-round pick that's going to be the best possible offer Washington gets unless a team has to pay them to absorb some longer-term salary.

I'm not going to continue these round-a-bouts with you if you can't even remember what you posted.

Once again, This has less to do with trade economics and more to do with trade purity. For 3 million dollars, Ariza is more valuable to the Wizards than Bonner would ever be because he plays on both ends of the court. He's more athletic, His offense is more fluid and he could run circles around Bonner on defense. Oh, and he's 5 years younger.

And the Spurs aren't going to be interested in giving up first round draft picks for a glorified role player who might only be here for the year and with rebuilding right around the corner. That's just counterproductive. Washington is interested in a Spur and you want the Spurs to give up draft picks? Sounds a bit ass-backwards to me.

[spurraider21]

if we could actually pry ariza out of washington, i'd be surprised. pleasantly surprised, obviously, but surprised

[Chinook]

I'm not going to continue these round-a-bouts with you if you can't even remember what you posted.


The more you post, the more clueless you sound. The Spurs aren't giving up a first round pick for Blair and unless they trade Bonner which they've been trying to do for the past two seasons, Ariza is an imposibility.

I don't think you get why your statement doesn't make sense. The Spurs wouldn't be giving up a pick FOR Blair in any circumstance. They'd be giving one up ALONG with Blair and Bonner's expiring for Ariza. I said that deal would beat any other deal Washington will get this season unless a team needs the Wizards to take back a long-term deal. Personally, I don't think it would take that much, and if I were the Spurs, I'd roll with what I had over giving up a pick for Ariza. I was just pointing it because you seem to think the Spurs don't have the assets to make a trade. They have as good of assets as any contender will, unless the Rockets trade Asik for an exception.


Once again, This has less to do with trade economics and more to do with trade purity. For 3 million dollars, Ariza is more valuable to the Wizards than Bonner would ever be because he plays on both ends of the court. He's more athletic, His offense is more fluid and he could run circles around Bonner on defense. Oh, and he's 5 years younger.

You don't understand trade economics. Bonner's deal is valuable no matter how poorly he plays (which isn't nearly as poor as you think, but whatever -- no one's really defending him here). Ariza's deal is more valuable because it's a bigger expiring contract. The fact that Ariza can play isn't non-negligible, but it pales in comparison to his contract ending after this season. If this were two years ago, he'd have the negative trade value he did when New Orleans dealt him away. The Spurs are compensating for the value difference by trading a player the Wizards want, whom they can't get any other way (as far as we know). They could also throw in a pick, which at that point would almost assuredly beat out any possible deal any team would make.

Also add in that Bonner fills a position of stated need as opposed to Ariza, who's third on the depth chart at small-forward. Even though Ariza is a better player, he's not worth them missing out on a player they covet and a player they could use that maintains their salary-cap flexibility.


And the Spurs aren't going to be interested in giving up first round draft picks for a glorified role player who might only be here for the year and with rebuilding right around the corner. That's just counterproductive. Washington is interested in a Spur and you want the Spurs to give up draft picks? Sounds a bit ass-backwards to me.

There in lies the entire explanation of why Ariza has such a depressed value in general. It's not just the Spurs who would be wary of giving up anything of value for Ariza; it's the entire NBA. He's still young, but the fact that his deal expires means he's only a short-term solution. However, as I said before, his salary is so big, that extra years on his deal would have made him even less attractive. That is unless the team had a need at starting-three spot. Then having Ariza's Bird rights would make giving up the pick worth it. The sad thing is, no contender outside of Memphis sees the starting three as something they need to upgrade from. Seriously, think about it. He has very few suitors willing to pay a pick for him.

The Spurs are a team with a lot of talent in the pipeline and who would seem willing to give up a pick if absolutely necessary if they thought was going to help them win a title this season. If they decide to do that, then they'll be able to beat any other offer out there. I hope they don't, though, as I view giving up more than Blair, Bonner and maybe a second or rights to an overseas player to be impractical and unnecessary.

[DesignatedT]

Bonner and Blair for Ariza. Do it. Pendergraph/Baynes and small ball with Leonard/Ariza/Thomas playing some 4 is plenty to fill Bonner and Blairs departure.

[DesignatedT]

Any chance Washington wants Neal as well?

[playblair]

357387479239753728

[playblair]

dejuan45 (http://instagram.com/dejuan45)
Beast! Omw to the Grind!!!! South beach what upppp!! ����™


http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/939a4d8aed8c11e2807c22000a9e06c7_7.jpg

[Chinook]

Any chance Washington wants Neal as well?

Doubt it. They have a good number of guards now. Neal could still be useful by netting the Spurs an asset they can redirect to Washington. The Wizards could still use a backup point-guard, though...

[Texas_Ranger]

Doubt it. They have a good number of guards now. Neal could still be useful by netting the Spurs an asset they can redirect to Washington. The Wizards could still use a backup point-guard, though...

I think they are pretty happy with Maynor. But could use Mills for the 3rd PG, cause Wall can get injured at anytime.

[Kidd K]

Word............imagine a wall/blair PNR tho....................

They can pick a spot on the bench then roll to the locker room without playing time.

Well Blair's okay and worthy of 5-10 minutes a game. Nando? I would prefer to see get 0 minutes outside of garbage time.

[Hoops Czar]

I don't think you get why your statement doesn't make sense. The Spurs wouldn't be giving up a pick FOR Blair in any circumstance. They'd be giving one up ALONG with Blair and Bonner's expiring for Ariza. I said that deal would beat any other deal Washington will get this season unless a team needs the Wizards to take back a long-term deal. Personally, I don't think it would take that much, and if I were the Spurs, I'd roll with what I had over giving up a pick for Ariza. I was just pointing it because you seem to think the Spurs don't have the assets to make a trade. They have as good of assets as any contender will, unless the Rockets trade Asik for an exception. You're putting way too much stock in Blair and the other Spurs mentionables. Here I thought you'd see a subtle difference between having the assests and HAVING the assets teams want. Let me make myself clear,
Blair is an end of the bench rotational player who has serious flaws on both the offensive and defensive end. He's undersized at his position and his only major contributions and worthiness come from rebounding the basketball, mostly in garbage time mind you, and that in itself isn't enough to partner up a first rounder and other useless spare parts. If you watched how the Spurs have operated over the years, you would have an understanding of how the Spurs do business.


You don't understand trade economics. Bonner's deal is valuable no matter how poorly he plays (which isn't nearly as poor as you think, but whatever -- no one's really defending him here). Ariza's deal is more valuable because it's a bigger expiring contract. The fact that Ariza can play isn't non-negligible, but it pales in comparison to his contract ending after this season. If this were two years ago, he'd have the negative trade value he did when New Orleans dealt him away. The Spurs are compensating for the value difference by trading a player the Wizards want, whom they can't get any other way (as far as we know). They could also throw in a pick, which at that point would almost assuredly beat out any possible deal any team would make.

Also add in that Bonner fills a position of stated need as opposed to Ariza, who's third on the depth chart at small-forward. Even though Ariza is a better player, he's not worth them missing out on a player they covet and a player they could use that maintains their salary-cap flexibility.


First of all, amidst all this hoopla, Ariza isn't on the block. Secondly, Ariza, regardless of your wandering assumptions didn't lose his job in Washington. Porter was projected to be a top 3 pick in the draft and he went #3. If Duncan came into the league as a center and not a power forward, that doesn't mean the Spurs weren't going to draft him because they already had Robinson occupying the position. Most draft picks need a year of development and if that's the case, keeping Ariza around would make a ton of sense so he can share and fight for the backup small forward position with Webster. And if porter isn't ready to make the jump, webster can help fill the starting role and Ariza can share backup with Porter. As an insurance policy for Webster and Porter, it probably makes more sense to keep him until closer to the deadline. All indications are that was the plan after Ariza opted in for the 2013-14 season. Bonner, on the other hand, has seen a precipitous drop in minutes and production in each of his last three seasons. Washington has a goal of making the playoffs so I'm inclined to think they actually want production in return. While I might be overselling Ariza a tad, you're really overplaying the Bonner card. If Bonner is as useful as you seem to think he is, then the Spurs wouldn't constantly be putting him on the block. Outside of Bonner, the Spurs don't really have stretch four either so out of necessity, the Spurs should keep him right??? (Diaw isn't a stretch 4. He shoots poorly from behind the arc and most of the time, he passes up the wide open shot. Defenders know this and constantly sag of him.)That doesn't seem to be the consensus from the fans and organization alike.



The Spurs are a team with a lot of talent in the pipeline and who would seem willing to give up a pick if absolutely necessary if they thought was going to help them win a title this season. If they decide to do that, then they'll be able to beat any other offer out there. I hope they don't, though, as I view giving up more than Blair, Bonner and maybe a second or rights to an overseas player to be impractical and unnecessary.

I don't think Ariza is the missing link to a championship. I do think he can solidify the backup SF position but that's hardly enough to put them over the top. Much more critical to the Spurs championship aspirations would have been to find a backup PG to TP. Point guard by committee didn't work last year and it's unlikely to works this year. De Crapo isn't an NBA caliber anything. Mills, Manu and Neal are traditional shooting guards asked to play out of position and CoJo is too green to be the fulltime backup to Tony. But what does interest me is the pipeline of talent. Care to name names? DT shows promise but I really don't take much stock in summer league performances. Richards still has a loooong way to go before he sniffs the sight of an NBA court and I'm not really too optimistic about his chances. I don't think De Colo has much of a future in the association and when his contract ends with the Spurs, provided he isn't traded, will find himself back from which he came. You're making more sense in this final paragraph though. Trading Bonner has been a dream of mine for four years now and I still have trouble envisioning it. However, I don't see any way the Spurs give up a first rounder in a package with Blair for Ariza, a second rounder or the rights to a player overseas, yes. I'm still interested in those names though.

[CGD]

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This needs to happen already. I hope RC isn't overvaluing Blair too much in these trade talks. I know in the past he wanted a 1st in exchange (from MIA & GSW iirc), and balked at a trade when he couldn't get one. Three observations:

(1) The fact nothing has happened yet may mean the Spurs are waiting to see what happens with Neal, and assessing whether they will need to package any spare parts like Mills or Nando in a trade involving him.
(2) If the Spurs intend to sign Neal regardless, the fact that Bonner + Blair for Ariza hasn't happened yet is proof positive that Bonner is in the Spurs plans next year.
(3) Also if the Spurs intend to sign Neal regardless, the fact that Blair + Mills + Nando for Ariza hasn't happened yet suggest the Spurs aren't ready to give up on Nando.