P*ssification of America continues - A Boys' Camp to Redefine Gender

[BRHornet45]

sons I don't even know where to begin. I mean is this real life? these are children who don't even know what any of this shit means. WTF is going on in this country???




A Boys' Camp to Redefine Gender


Over the past three years, photographer Lindsay Morris has been documenting a four-day camp for gender nonconforming boys and their parents.

The camp, “You Are You” (the name has been changed to protect the privacy of the children and is also the name of Morris’ series), is for “Parents who don’t have a gender-confirming 3-year-old who wants to wear high heels and prefers to go down the pink aisle in K-Mart and not that nasty dark boys’ aisle,” Morris said with a laugh.

Although it is unknown if the kids at the camp will eventually identify as gay or transgender—or even if the way gender and sexuality are defined throughout society will evolve—the camp allows the kids to look at themselves in a completely different way.


http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/1.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Family members applaud a camper as he makes his way down the fashion-show runway.



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/6.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Left: A child shows off his favorite nightgown. Right: Throughout the weekend, campers apply, remove, and reapply makeup, and wardrobe changes are constant.



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/3.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Children socialize outside the barn that serves as a performance center at the camp.



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/5.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Left: Taking a portrait during a rare still moment. Right: Wearing a tea towel to simulate long hair.



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/2.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Parents play a big role in organizing camp activities. Here, a child awaits his turn for the fashion show.



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/4.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Hours before the fashion show, a camper rehearses his ta-dah moment.



http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/_you_are_you_looks_at_a_gender_nonconforming_camp_ for_boys_photos.html

[Koolaid_Man]

notice you don't see any black kids in there...those are your kids BR...maybe you and your racist crew should get a clue...

[BRHornet45]

notice you don't see any black kids in there...those are your kids BR...maybe you and your racist crew should get a clue...

how did I know the forum bigot would be the first to respond?

[scroteface]

notice you don't see any black kids in there...those are your kids BR...maybe you and your racist crew should get a clue...
beat the brakes off u lil hoe just wait till i start the new job in h-town gonna make u wear a dress

[Thebesteva]

Not sure if media bait to make people hate eachother more or actually retarded fucking gay shit

[DPG21920]

Are they making a live version of the movie "Brave".

[I. Hustle]

Hey Kool, there is a black kid socializing outside the barn.

WTF is wrong with these people? All it is is kids starving for attention. They get it when they act like that so why would they stop? That shit is just horrible.

[Trill Clinton]

sad

[CubanSucks]

This kinda shit won't last, the mob that is school will fix them up. It's the anti-bullying shit that's the problem, once that natural cleanser gets taken away..*shudder*



notice you don't see any black kids in there...those are your kids BR...maybe you and your racist crew should get a clue...

Fuck you

[ohmwrecker]

Not sure if media bait to make people hate eachother more or actually retarded fucking gay shit

Gender identification and sexual preference are two separate things.

[SupremeGuy]

I just feel sorry for all of those kids. Like wtf is that shit? I'm willing to bet half the parents there molest their children and get them to play dress up a lot at home. Fucking sickos.

[ohmwrecker]

You don't really believe that.

[Two10Whitey]

notice you don't see any black kids in there...those are your kids BR...maybe you and your racist crew should get a clue...
Looks like a black kid in the third picture down..

[Trill Clinton]

I don't see any black children, stop it. All them sissies belong to yall. Black kids are too busy shooting each other up, they dont have time to dress in drag and paint each others toenails at fairy camp. Stop deflecting.

[CubanSucks]

the middle kid in the third one down

you're a moron

[mrsmaalox]

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/behold/2013/07/15/4.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Hours before the fashion show, a camper rehearses his ta-dah moment.

:lmao I have that exact dress!! I fill it out much better.....

[Trill Clinton]

the middle kid in the third one down

you're a moron

Sorry could be Asian, Latino, Pacific Islander. Cant judge off skintone and lower extremities. This is a camp for children that look like you.

[Blake]

Poor kids being encouraged to do what makes them happy.

The horrah

[Avante]

I seriously doubt that has anything to do with America as a whole. There are weird fucks all over the place, as we see above.

[ohmwrecker]

I seriously doubt that has anything to do with America as a whole. There are weird fucks all over the place, as we see above.

What if Mason identified more with his feminine side? What if he wanted to be a princess? Would you love him less? Would physically and mentally abuse him until he cut out all this nonsense?

[ohmwrecker]

Sorry could be Asian, Latino, Pacific Islander. Cant judge off skintone and lower extremities. This is a camp for children that look like you.

Right . . . because you never see transgendered black people. It just never happens.

[Avante]

What if Mason identified more with his feminine side? What if he wanted to be a princess? Would you love him less? Would physically and mentally abuse him until he cut out all this nonsense?

It wouldn't matter as far as he was concerned because he'd never know my disappointment. He'd still be my number one buddy and nothing would be any different at all.

[ohmwrecker]

It wouldn't matter as far as he was concerned because he'd never know my disappointment. He'd still be my number one buddy and nothing would be any different at all.

That's cool, but it's tough to hide disappointment. Children are very perceptive. It would be best to just be proud of your children for who they are, imo.

[TeyshaBlue]

I don't see any black children, stop it. All them sissies belong to yall. Black kids are too busy shooting each other up, they dont have time to dress in drag and paint each others toenails at fairy camp. Stop deflecting.

:lmao

[Avante]

That's cool, but it's tough to hide disappointment. Children are very perceptive. It would be best to just be proud of your children for who they are, imo.

That sounds all good but any man saying he's proud of his sissy son is lying to himself and everyone else. I wouldn't like it and neither would anyone I know, but like I said his happiness far more important than my disappointment. Trust me, he'd never know anything other than I love him.

[Trill Clinton]

Right . . . because you never see transgendered black people. It just never happens.

I have but I don't know if the child is indeed black. It's a silly argument but there isn't enough to say for sure what race that kid is.

[ohmwrecker]

That sounds all good but any man saying he's proud of his sissy son is lying to himself and everyone else.

What if your sissy son grew up to cure cancer? Would you be proud of him then, or would you still be disappointed because he didn't play football and wore a gown to prom?

[ohmwrecker]

I have but I don't know if the child is indeed black. It's a silly argument but there isn't enough to say for sure what race that kid is.

:rolleyes You and Kool are arguing that that this cross gender identification is a caucasian phenomena. That's bullshit and you know it.

[Avante]

What if your sissy son grew up to cure cancer? Would you be proud of him then, or would you still be disappointed because he didn't play football and wore a gown to prom?

I don't care what he did if he's acting like a sissy with sissyass ways I'm not going to be...attaboy son.:lobt2:

I know, I know this is the internet so we must be liars but I was into sports heavy, long time lifter, I don't have a sissyass bone in my body. Guys like me want a son they can arm wrestle, teach him how to catch the ball, tell him about girls and the talk man talk with, no man wants a son where a pass hurts his little hands.

Right now at 19 he's kicking my ass in one on one B-Ball, I like that.

[Trill Clinton]

:rolleyes You and Kool are arguing that that this cross gender identification is a caucasian phenomena. That's bullshit and you know it.

for the most part it is a caucasian phenomena. i'm sure there are some minorities but they are far and between. check out the official site: http://lindsaymorris.viewbook.com/

[ohmwrecker]

I don't care what he did if he's acting like a sissy with sissyass ways I'm not going to be...attaboy son.:lobt2:

I know, I know this is the internet so we must be liars but I was into sports heavy, long time lifter, I don't have a sissyass bone in my body. Guys like me want a son they can arm wrestle, teach him how to catch the ball, tell him about girls and the talk man talk with, no man wants a son where a pass hurts his little hands.

That's not really my point. You really are a troglodyte though. I always wonder about dudes who are so defensive and insistent about proving how masculine they are . . .

[ohmwrecker]

for the most part it is a caucasian phenomena. i'm sure there are some minorities but they are far and between. check out the official site: http://lindsaymorris.viewbook.com/

I'm not arguing that there are more white kids at that one particular camp. A sample size that small doesn't prove anything. You know that there are plenty of minorities that have gender identification issues. You know that there are plenty of minorities that are homosexual. It doesn't make you less of a man to admit that. Why are you so defensive?

[Gay Robot]

I don't have a sissyass bone in my body.


Would you like one?

[Gay Robot]

That's not really my point. You really are a troglodyte though. I always wonder about dudes who are so defensive and insistent about proving how masculine they are . . .

They are always asking to be the "catcher".

[Avante]

That's not really my point. You really are a troglodyte though. I always wonder about dudes who are so defensive and insistent about proving how masculine they are . . .

You asked a question I gave you the real answer, sorry if it's not what you would have said. It ain't got shit to do with trying to prove anything it's all about me being who I am. I'm a man who wouldn't be too keen having a sissyass son. You do want the truth don't you?

[Avante]

Would you like one?

Would you like for me to kick your faggot little ass up and down your street so all your neigbors could watch you scream like a little bitch?

Don't fuck with me ya little pussy or I'll reach right thru this monitor and slap that pin head of yours right off that pencil neck. Now beat it bitch.

[ohmwrecker]

You asked a question I gave you the real answer, sorry if it's not what you would have said. It ain't got shit to do with trying to prove anything it's all about me being who I am. I'm a man who wouldn't be too keen having a sissyass son. You do want the truth don't you?

You didn't answer the question I asked. Could you be proud/not disappointed in your son even if he didn't fit your preconceived notions about what he should be?

[ohmwrecker]

Would you like for me to kick your faggot little ass up and down your street so all your neigbors could watch you scream like a little bitch?

Don't fuck with me ya little pussy or I'll reach right thru this monitor and slap that pin head of yours right off that pencil neck. Now beat it bitch.

Whoa! A chord was struck. That really bothered you, huh? Why is that?

[Trill Clinton]

I'm not arguing that there are more white kids at that one particular camp. A sample size that small doesn't prove anything. You know that there are plenty of minorities that have gender identification issues. You know that there are plenty of minorities that are homosexual. It doesn't make you less of a man to admit that. Why are you so defensive?

i'm not defensive at all, at least i don't think i am. i just pointed out the child in the pic may not actually be black and everyone else got defensive because of me saying he might not be black.

[Blake]

Would you like one?


Would you like for me to kick your faggot little ass up and down your street so all your neigbors could watch you scream like a little bitch?

Don't fuck with me ya little pussy or I'll reach right thru this monitor and slap that pin head of yours right off that pencil neck. Now beat it bitch.

:lol sensitive

[Gay Robot]

Would you like for me to kick your faggot little ass up and down your street so all your neigbors could watch you scream like a little bitch?

Don't fuck with me ya little pussy or I'll reach right thru this monitor and slap that pin head of yours right off that pencil neck. Now beat it bitch.

OOOHHHHH I'm into humiliation. Can I bring my own leash?! My neighbors are pretty used to it though, can we try a random neighborhood? I got a semi just thinking about it. Just bring it here and I'll beat it for you!

THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT FUN!!!!

[Avante]

You didn't answer the question I asked. Could you be proud/not disappointed in your son even if he didn't fit your preconceived notions about what he should be?

It's a stupid question.

[Avante]

Whoa! A chord was struck. That really bothered you, huh? Why is that?

Showmanship.

[Avante]

OOOHHHHH I'm into humiliation. Can I bring my own leash?! My neighbors are pretty used to it though, can we try a random neighborhood? I got a semi just thinking about it. Just bring it here and I'll beat it for you!

THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT FUN!!!!

Sit down and shut the fuck up faggot. This is how this is going to go and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm going to crawl right thru this screen and all those wires and jump out at your computer then precede to stomp your bonely little ass. When I get done with ya fucker there won't be enought left to cremate. Here I come mutherfucker...........

[Avante]

:lol sensitive

Are you ever going to figure this shit out midget?

[Gay Robot]

Sit down and shut the fuck up faggot. This is how this is going to go and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm going to crawl right thru this screen and all those wires and jump out at your computer then precede to stomp your bonely little ass. When I get done with ya fucker there won't be enought left to cremate. Here I come mutherfucker...........

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wYkfKEEmgEg/S5KLibG1FBI/AAAAAAAABYk/1U61AB0qWpQ/s640/I%20came.jpg

[ohmwrecker]

It's a stupid question.

No, it's not.

[ohmwrecker]

Showmanship.

Deflection.

[Avante]

No, it's not.

I've already told you my stance on this, no need to say anything else about it.

[Avante]

Deflection.

Obviously that was some kid messing around thought I'd mess back, no big deal.

[ohmwrecker]

i'm not defensive at all, at least i don't think i am. i just pointed out the child in the pic may not actually be black and everyone else got defensive because of me saying he might not be black.

I'm just curious why you are so insistent that there are no black kids at this camp when there are obviously transgendered blacks in society. Why do you think a camp like this is predominantly white?


I don't see any black children, stop it. All them sissies belong to yall. Black kids are too busy shooting each other up, they dont have time to dress in drag and paint each others toenails at fairy camp. Stop deflecting.

Ridiculous.

[ohmwrecker]

I've already told you my stance on this, no need to say anything else about it.

So, no matter what great accomplishments your child had achieved, you would always be disappointed and never proud because he played with dolls and not a football? Is that correct?

[ohmwrecker]

Obviously that was some kid messing around thought I'd mess back, no big deal.

Ok . . . because when a dude has a violent reaction to homosexuality you know what that indicates, right?

[Avante]

So, no matter what great accomplishments your child had achieved, you would always be disappointed and never proud because he played with dolls and not a football? Is that correct?

Being proud of some accomplishment isn't going to erase the disappointment.

[ohmwrecker]

Being proud of some accomplishment isn't going to erase the disappointment.

That's pretty sad, dude. You're letting your insecurities affect your son's life and happiness. Poor Mason.

[Avante]

Ok . . . because when a dude has a violent reaction to homosexuality you know what that indicates, right?

Dude, look.....been married for over 30 years (this time) have raised three daughters and a son....ok? What are you 15?

[ohmwrecker]

Dude, look.....been married for over 30 years (this time) have raised three daughters and a son....ok? What are you 15?

My next door neighbor when I was a kid was married and had two beautiful daughters and a son . . . queer as a football bat.

[Avante]

That's pretty sad, dude. You're letting your insecurities affect your son's life and happiness. Poor Mason.

How about Mason is lucky to have a dad who treats him like a man. I pity any son you might have. "be a little sissy son"...cool with me.....yuck!!!!!!!!

[Avante]

My next door neighbor when I was a kid was married and had two beautiful daughters and a son . . . queer as a football bat.

Well hell if you had a fag neighbor as a kid then yep I'm gay.

[SupremeGuy]

Well this thread devolved rather quickly. :lol

[ohmwrecker]

Well hell if you had a fag neighbor as as kid then yep I'm gay.

Don't you feel better?

[ohmwrecker]

Well this thread devolved rather quickly. :lol

It wasn't very "evolved" to begin with.

[Leetonidas]

Sit down and shut the fuck up faggot. This is how this is going to go and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm going to crawl right thru this screen and all those wires and jump out at your computer then precede to stomp your bonely little ass. When I get done with ya fucker there won't be enought left to cremate. Here I come mutherfucker...........
shut the fuck up before i stop putting water in your mother's dish

[ohmwrecker]

How about Mason is lucky to have a dad who treats him like a man. I pity any son you might have. "be a little sissy son"...cool with me.....yuck!!!!!!!!

I do have a son. He plays football, baseball and soccer. He is a really good artist and musically inclined. He doesn't have a girlfriend, but he's only seven. He is the love of my life and nothing would ever change that.

[mrsmaalox]

Avante thinks that playing football, lifting, arm wrestling, man talking equals not gay. Gay men do that stuff too. Hopefully he will look it up in his almanac of gay athletes and get back to us with a list.

[Rogue]

pussification? sometimes it also goes the other way round. some girls also pretend to be guys, they wear guys clothes and even fake beards, and sometimes enter the toilet room opposite the one they should be in. My goddess does it a lot and she enjoys it, so shall we call it dickerization or something?

[SupremeGuy]

Avante thinks that playing football, lifting, arm wrestling, man talking equals not gay. Gay men do that stuff too. Hopefully he will look it up in his almanac of gay athletes and get back to us with a list.Sure some gay men do that stuff; but they're the exception, not the rule.

[ohmwrecker]

Sure some gay men do that stuff; but they're the exception, not the rule.

I've never heard of that. What are the rules to being gay? You seem to know a lot about it.

[SupremeGuy]

I've never heard of that. What are the rules to being gay? You seem to know a lot about it.You're the one objecting to my post. You've never heard of gay men acting like women? That's the way most people see gay men. You know why? Because that's how most of them act. You can pretend that's not true all you want, but you're just lying to yourself.

[ohmwrecker]

You're the one objecting to my post. You've never heard of gay men acting like women? That's the way most people see gay men. You know why? Because that's how most of them act. You can pretend that's not true all you want, but you're just lying to yourself.

From what I've seen it's pretty even. Maybe Austin is completely different than the rest of the country in that regard, but I doubt it. There are a lot of gay men who are just regular guys for the most part. A lot of people only notice the flamboyant, effeminate gays for obvious reasons and that's how they characterize all gays. People do the same thing with blacks, mexicans, asians etc. Most people just pick out the things that annoy them or make them uncomfortable about certain groups of people and make broad, sweeping, stereotypical generalizations about all of them. It's human nature to marginalize things we aren't comfortable with.

[Avante]

Avante thinks that playing football, lifting, arm wrestling, man talking equals not gay. Gay men do that stuff too. Hopefully he will look it up in his almanac of gay athletes and get back to us with a list.

Don't get out much do ya?

[Avante]

I do have a son. He plays football, baseball and soccer. He is a really good artist and musically inclined. He doesn't have a girlfriend, but he's only seven. He is the love of my life and nothing would ever change that.

Have you read anything I've said?

[ohmwrecker]

Have you read anything I've said?

Yes. I read that you have certain criteria for a son that are totally based on your desires and expectations and that you would be disappointed with anything less.

[Avante]

Yes. I read that you have certain criteria for a son that are totally based on your desires and expectations and that you would be disappointed with anything less.

Would you be disappointed if your son was bad in school, a bully, had a drug/alcohol problem? Of course you would, does it have anything to do with your love for him...of course not.

[ohmwrecker]

Would be disappointed if your son was bad in school, a bully, had a drug/alcohol problem? Of course you would, does it have anything to do with your love for him...of course not.

All those things are mistakes that most kids make and not at the core of who they are as a human being. You know the difference.

[thunderup]

I'm hoping those kids are there because they want to be there and not because mommeh and daddeh yearned for a female.

[Avante]

All those things are mistakes that most kids make and not at the core of who they are as a human being. You know the difference.

I'll slow it down, do your best...ok?

You can be disppointed with somebody and still love the hell out of them..........honest!

[ohmwrecker]

I'll slow it down, do your best...ok?

You can be disppointed with somebody and still love the hell out of them..........honest!

I'm not arguing that.

[scroteface]

these kids just need their dads to take them to the range and shoot an AR, they don't need a dress tbh

[CuckingFunt]

Would you like for me to kick your faggot little ass up and down your street so all your neigbors could watch you scream like a little bitch?

Don't fuck with me ya little pussy or I'll reach right thru this monitor and slap that pin head of yours right off that pencil neck. Now beat it bitch.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

[CuckingFunt]

Dude, look.....been married for over 30 years (this time) have raised three daughters and a son....ok?

There are a lot of gay guys who can say the same thing.

[CuckingFunt]

You're the one objecting to my post. You've never heard of gay men acting like women? That's the way most people see gay men. You know why? Because that's how most of them act. You can pretend that's not true all you want, but you're just lying to yourself.

That's how most people see gay men because that's all most people are looking for.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm hoping those kids are there because they want to be there and not because mommeh and daddeh yearned for a female.

This gets closest to my only problem with such a camp. I am a huge supporter of gender neutral parenting and people who support whatever nontraditional expressions of gender their children display. However, I am wary of parents who disproportionately encourage nontraditional gender expression or who otherwise use their children to advertise how awesome and liberal and accepting they are.

[lefty]

notice you don't see any black kids in there....
Of course not

We know who the real men are

[Gay Robot]

Avante, I found your banana hammock under my couch cushion. I know it's yours because it has the football print on it.


LOL my jaw is still popping when I open and close it. How is yours? I've never seen someone try to take 3 at a time.

[jack sommerset]

Those poor kids. Send many prayers to them. God bless

[SourCandy]

That's pretty gay.

[Gay Robot]

I think those kids are FFFFAAABBBBBBUUUUUULLLLLLLOOOOOUUUSSSSSSSSSSS.

They should have a camp like that for Adults. That way Avante can feel free and not put up a facade.

[mingus]

This is gayification. Pussification is another thing altogether but it's also rampant.

[TeyshaBlue]

shut the fuck up before i stop putting water in your mother's dish

Holy shit.:lmao

[mingus]

What do you go by, what criteria, to you use to send them to camp. That's what I'm interested in. I'm not sure there's actual valid criteria. What? You're kid plays with girls toys? I played with girls (and boys) toys. I'm not gay or bi or anything. Do they just come out and say they like dick or (pussy if a girl) or suggest it in some way. I doubt it. IMO that deserves inqueery.

[CuckingFunt]

What do you go by, what criteria, to you use to send them to camp. That's what I'm interested in. I'm not sure there's actual valid criteria. What? You're kid plays with girls toys? I played with girls (and boys) toys. I'm not gay or bi or anything. Do they just come out and say they like dick or (pussy if a girl) or suggest it in some way. I doubt it. IMO that deserves inqueery.


Gender identification and sexual preference are two separate things.

[Blake]

IMO that deserves inqueery.

Oh, look at that!

[Avante]

There are a lot of gay guys who can say the same thing.

So you think I'm gay?

[CuckingFunt]

So you think I'm gay?

I don't give a shit what you are or aren't. It's a fact, however, that having a wife and kids is not proof of not being gay.

[Jeff Leppard]

He seems unsure of himself.

[mingus]

What's the percentage of guys who consider themselves female that are gay? Is there any casual link? I'm interested because although it may not be a gay camp in name it may be a de facto. I just assume that if a boy thinks or made to think he's a girl, that it would lend itself to homoerotic behavior at some point.

[CuckingFunt]

What's the percentage of guys who consider themselves female that are gay? Is there any casual link? I'm interested because although it may not be a gay camp in name it may be a de facto. I just assume that if a boy thinks or made to think he's a girl, that it would lend itself to homoerotic behavior at some point.

There's a big difference between wearing feminine clothes or straying from established gender roles and actually being transgendered.

Some men, gay and straight (though primarily the former) dress in drag as a form of performance. Some men dress in women's clothes because they like the clothes or the feeling of wearing them; transvestites are overwhelmingly straight identified men who live otherwise traditionally straight lives.

When you talk of men who "consider themselves female," you're really talking about men who are transgendered. These are men who often end up living their lives completely as women and pursuing relationships with men. Which is, strictly speaking, entirely heterosexual.

[Avante]

I don't give a shit what you are or aren't. It's a fact, however, that having a wife and kids is not proof of not being gay.

Who was I talking about, yep..me. Have you not picked up on the fact I'm madly in love witn Judy, sure ya have, so why act stupid about this?

[CuckingFunt]

Who was I talking about, yep..me.

I know. It's your only subject.

I was not talking about you, however, as I don't know you and don't care one way or the other about your sexual proclivities.

[mingus]

There's a big difference between wearing feminine clothes or straying from established gender roles and actually being transgendered.

Some men, gay and straight (though primarily the former) dress in drag as a form of performance. Some men dress in women's clothes because they like the clothes or the feeling of wearing them; transvestites are overwhelmingly straight identified men who live otherwise traditionally straight lives.

When you talk of men who "consider themselves female," you're really talking about men who are transgendered. These are men who often end up living their lives completely as women and pursuing relationships with men. Which is, strictly speaking, entirely heterosexual.

But answer my question. You gave me interesting information but you didn't answer my question completely

[CuckingFunt]

But answer my question. You gave me interesting information but you didn't answer my question completely

Your questions are irrelevant for the reasons I mentioned. And they can be better answered by Google than by me.

[ohmwrecker]

But answer my question. You gave me interesting information but you didn't answer my question completely

That's a really complicated question that seems to be a diversion from the main issue. The only question that needs to be answered is: If you have a child that identifies with the opposite gender, do you allow them to be who they are, or do you supress them because it makes you uncomfortable?

[mingus]

They aren't irrelevant because whether or not it is a de facto gay camp can be better answered by them.

You're last statement in the previous post I also have disagreements over. Because, in my mind, if you are transgender and you were born a man, you are gay. What's the reasoning behind claiming they are straight? Genetically, they are male. They stil have an x and y chromosome, and physiologically the are also male. No periods, no giving birth, no menopause etc etc. Their mindset and possibly some exterior might be that of a female but is mindset and appearence enough to lable them a female. I don't think so. If I dated I transgender whom I later found out was originally a man, i wouldn't think I was in a hetero relationship the whole time. Would you? Would you keep dating that person? If not then why?

Maybe is more complicated than that, I haven't really though about it much.

But to me, mindset isn't enough. Not sure what is. I don't know if the LGBT community is the one coining the terms and definitions, but i dont think theyre fixed and indisputable.

[Avante]

I know. It's your only subject.

I was not talking about you, however, as I don't know you and don't care one way or the other about your sexual proclivities.

That was stupid.

[mingus]

That's a really complicated question that seems to be a diversion from the main issue. The only question that needs to be answered is: If you have a child that identifies with the opposite gender, do you allow them to be who they are, or do you supress them because it makes you uncomfortable?

Pin a country that allows all sorts of indoctrination, obviously parents have the right to force their kids into shit like this. Whether you should allow it or not I think depends on the child's understanding of the potential consequences of choosing that lifestyle if you want to call it that. Ive a hard time believing that at four years of age or what ever they are, they completely get it. I'd say 15-16 is a reasonable age, but grade and middle school is a bit too young IMO.

[CuckingFunt]

You're last statement in the previous post I also have disagreements over. Because, in my mind, if you are transgender and you were born a man, you are gay. What's the reasoning behind claiming they are straight? Genetically, they are male. They stil have an x and y chromosome, and physiologically the are also male. No periods, no giving birth, no menopause etc etc. Their mindset and possibly some exterior might be that of a female but is mindset and appearence enough to lable them a female. I don't think so. If I dated I transgender whom I later found out was originally a man, i wouldn't think I was in a hetero relationship the whole time. Would you? Would you keep dating that person? If not then why?

I didn't say transgendered men were straight. I suggested that being a woman and dating men is a heterosexual pursuit.

[mingus]

I didn't say transgendered men were straight. I suggested that being a woman and dating men is a heterosexual pursuit.

You said that when male to female transgenderds pursue men it is hetero. That's what I was pointing out and I disputeed that.

[ohmwrecker]

Pin a country that allows all sorts of indoctrination, obviously parents have the right to force their kids into shit like this. Whether you should allow it or not I think depends on the child's understanding of the potential consequences of choosing that lifestyle if you want to call it that. Ive a hard time believing that at four years of age or what ever they are, they completely get it. I'd say 15-16 is a reasonable age, but grade and middle school is a bit too young IMO.

I have a hard time believing that parent would "force" their children to identify with an opposite gender, and obviously every case is different, but I'm sure as a loving parent, one would let this develop slowly and determine how committed to the identification each individual child is going to be. I doubt there are parents out there throwing Johnny in a full drag because he played with a Barbie once. Obviously, a conversation with the child might occur that would detail how they might have to conform in certain societal situations. It's possible that a camp like this might be a reward for these children for having to conform to a more oppressive societal standard. I don't know if forcing a child to completely conform and ignore these impulses until they are 15-16 is healthy. A huge amount of psychological damage would be done at that point.

I don't envy these children or their parents one bit. It seems very difficult to deal with.

[RD2191]

How gay can a buffet be...

[mingus]

I have a hard time believing that parent would "force" their children to identify with an opposite gender, and obviously every case is different, but I'm sure as a loving parent, one would let this develop slowly and determine how committed to the identification each individual child is going to be. I doubt there are parents out there throwing Johnny in a full drag because he played with a Barbie once. Obviously, a conversation with the child might occur that would detail how they might have to conform in certain societal situations. It's possible that a camp like this might be a reward for these children for having to conform to a more oppressive societal standard. I don't know if forcing a child to completely conform and ignore these impulses until they are 15-16 is healthy. A huge amount of psychological damage would be done at that point.

I don't envy these children or their parents one bit. It seems very difficult to deal with.

Youre right, the word force is probably too harsh and not applicable in many or most cases. But, I guess a better word might be influence, lead, or pressure them to joint these camps. The same principle applies though, which is that I think that for it to be alright they have to have a mature understanding of the potential consequences. I think until they reach that age parents should be neutral about it. That doesn't necessarily mean ignoring or surpressing their impulses, it just means letting them develope into whichever gender identity they do organically and assuring them that no matter what they think they are--be it a female, male, tranny, cat, dog, lizard, turtle--they'll be loved just the same.

[Avante]

Getting back to the topic...

Obviously the title was totally misleading, America will always have more than enought real men. There are how many college/highschool/pro football teams in this country, yep...thousands. How many boxers, wrestlers and fighters...tons. We have the most powerful army in the world. What a few weirdo's at some camp are doing makes no dent at all when it comes to machoism in America. A few fruitcakes is no sign of anything.

[ohmwrecker]

That's not the topic.

[Chief Brody]

I really hope this was originally an Onion article

[mrsmaalox]

Getting back to the topic...

Obviously the title was totally misleading, America will always have more than enought real men. There are how many college/highschool/pro football teams in this country, yep...thousands. How many boxers, wrestlers and fighters...tons. We have the most powerful army in the world. What a few weirdo's at some camp are doing makes no dent at all when it comes to machoism in America. A few fruitcakes is no sign of anything.

There's probably a healthy infiltration of "fruitcakes" in those ranks of American machoism you named.

[Avante]

There's probably a healthy infiltration of "fruitcakes" in those ranks of American machoism you named.

Stick to what you know, trust me...this isn't it. Were you ever in the military, played football, been in a fight...nope!

[ohmwrecker]

Stick to what you know, trust me...this isn't it. Were you ever in the military, played football, been in a fight...nope!

Yep.

[ohmwrecker]

Youre right, the word force is probably too harsh and not applicable in many or most cases. But, I guess a better word might be influence, lead, or pressure them to joint these camps. The same principle applies though, which is that I think that for it to be alright they have to have a mature understanding of the potential consequences. I think until they reach that age parents should be neutral about it. That doesn't necessarily mean ignoring or surpressing their impulses, it just means letting them develope into whichever gender identity they do organically and assuring them that no matter what they think they are--be it a female, male, tranny, cat, dog, lizard, turtle--they'll be loved just the same.

I think we are pretty close on this, but I am struggling with you insistence that these parents are influencing/pressuring their children to identify with the opposite gender. I can't fathom a parent wanting their child to take a a path in life that will cause them difficulty in society. Also, those kids look pretty happy to me.

[DMX7]

Stories like this really are the junk food of cultural/human-interest journalism.

Oh, and Kool, I have no doubt you could find some suburban token black kid who also just wants to have his "tah-dah" moment.

This is disgusting and deeply disturbing either way.

[The Franchise]

Sick shit.

[angrydude]

I don't give a shit what you are or aren't. It's a fact, however, that having a wife and kids is not proof of not being gay.

BISEXUAL you fucking biphobic.

[CuckingFunt]

BISEXUAL you fucking biphobic.

I'm bisexual.

It is possible to have a wife and kids and be bisexual. It is also possible to have a wife and kids and be a closet case. Sexuality is based on what you like, not what you do.

[Rogue]

Bisexuality is fine for women though, at least it doesn't come with as much risk of getting HIV as if it's practiced by guys (like Magic). It doesn't transmit HIV into your body if you only licks your partner's pussy, rather than stick your stick of blood and fresh up his anus into his rectum