Who is the best international player of all time?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Who would you pick?

[ducks]

DUNCAN

[poeticism707]

Since Duncan is a US citizen,

Dirk.

[ducks]

dirk is a usa citizen now and germany right?

[lefty]

MJ

He is a alien




But srsly



This man :

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4f6f6de165cdbf746ec400dda49d22a7/tumblr_mii2vquVkV1r99k95o1_500.gif

[Yuixafun]

faauuq... dream shake

[romain.star]

The Dream

[LakerHater]

My favorite was Dražen Petrović (http://www.spurstalk.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7mFZJuZRXmEAobNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1bmYybHV oBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1NNRTI0OF8xN zk-/SIG=12i4sbli2/EXP=1374066393/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%25C5%25BEen_Petrovi%25C4%2587)

[spurs10]

I'd have to say Mark. Half Manu and half Dirk.

[Leetonidas]

Since you said international and not just European I'ma go with Hakeem the Dream but if you don't find that valid since he played college ball in the US then I'll go with Nowitzki

[TXstbobcat]

I'm going with Tony Parker.

[chapnis]

Hakeem, Dirk, Petrovic, Sabonis, Manu and Nash

[spurraider21]

If Hakeem counts, its him. If not, its Dirk. How many other internationals were true franchise players? Manu obviously being my personal favorite though

[spurraider21]

MJ

He is a alien




But srsly



This man :

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4f6f6de165cdbf746ec400dda49d22a7/tumblr_mii2vquVkV1r99k95o1_500.gif
i don't think space counts as interNATIONAL tbh

[lefty]

Hakeem, Dirk, Petrovic, Sabonis, Manu and Nash
shhiiiit

If Sabbas didnt get blocked by the Soviets .......


Imagine a young and healthy Sabonis with the Blazers

Dude could run and dunk like D-Rob ... combine that with hands and court vision

Jordan = fucked :lol

[ego]

The best : Krešimir Ćosić I saw him in Zadar . Incredible and awesome player

[spurraider21]

shhiiiit

If Sabbas didnt get blocked by the Soviets .......


Imagine a young and healthy Sabonis with the Blazers

Dude could run and dunk like D-Rob ... combine that with hands and court vision

Jordan = fucked :lol

and he was 7'3

[FireMicoHalili]

Vesely or Bargnani, tough call!

[mudyez]

Not including guys like Duncan or Ewing and looking at the player overall and not only his time in the NBA my list looks something like this (Manu is pretty hard to evaluate...imo you could make a case between 4. and 8.):

1. Hakeem
2. Arvydas
3. Dirk
4. Tony
5. Dražen
6. Manu
7. Nash
8. Pau
9. Yao
10. Mutombo

[mudyez]

BTW.: I talked to one of Sabonis' assistant coaches once and he said Arvydas was better than MJ but he also was so lazy, that Coleman would be called a "hard worker" if Arvydas would have been around. He didn't even really warm up, only doing some lazy in between the legs dribblings and crazy shots while not caring about his teammates.

[lefty]

Speaking of international GOATS


Remember Yinka Dare, the next Hakeem/Shaq ? :lol

[DesignatedT]

Dream
Dirk
Nash
Tony
Manu
Pau
Yao

[Vash StampedE]

Manu the best even at the twilight of his career he's being paid double his true value.

[The Reckoning]

Scola

[Boomersgold]

That Drazen guy was pretty good too.

[lefty]

Recent article on Petro



Drazen Petrovic remembered on 20-year anniversary of his tragic death
http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width620/img/blazers_impact/photo/12894584-mmmain.jpg
Drazen Petrovic averaged 15.4 points over the span of his short NBA career. (The Oregonian file photo)

Print (http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers_impact/print.html?entry=/2013/06/drazen_petrovic_remembered_on_20-year_anniversary.html)
http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width40/img/avatars/9892410.png (http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/sporting-news/index.html)By Sporting News (http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/sporting-news/posts.html)
Follow on Twitter (http://twitter.com/sportingnews)
on June 07, 2013 at 4:18 PM

























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June 7, 2013 marks the 20-year anniversary of a tragic day for not just the NBA, but the global basketball community. It's the day Drazen Petrovic (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/petrodr01.html) died.
Petrovic, who was a member of the New Jersey Nets at the time, was in the passenger seat of a car being driven by his girlfriend, Klara Szalantzy. A disabled vehicle blocked all lanes on a high-speed highway and while a driver tried to warn them, there wasn't enough time to stop. Petrovic was killed, another passenger was gravely injured. Szalantzy went on to marry German striker Oliver Bierhoff.
In 2011, the New York Daily News wrote an exceptional piece about the forgotten passenger in the car, Hilal Edebal (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/crash-killed-drazen-petrovic-18-years-crushed-dreams-broken-passenger-article-1.948653), who was also gravely injured and lost her basketball career, which included a spot on the Turkish national team and a place at Niagara University.
NorthJersey.com spoke with Willis Reed (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reedwi01.html), who was the Nets' GM at the time of Petrovic's death, for the 20-year anniversary of the somber occasion (http://www.northjersey.com/sports/Popper_20_years_later_Drazen_Petrovic_tragedy_stil l_stings.html).
“Then I started getting details of what happened," Reed said." It really tugs at my heart. It’s one of those things that you went though and you’ll never get over. I won’t. I know I won’t.”
Petrovic gained lasting fame in the eyes of many in the U.S. when he faced off against the Dream Team. Highlights below.
In the NBA, Petrovic averaged 22.3 points during his final season (1992-93) with the Nets. He was originally a member of the Portland Trail Blazers, but couldn't find time in a backcourt that included Clyde Drexler (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html) and Terry Porter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portete01.html).
One of the great stories about Petrovic was his 112-point game (40-for-60 from the field, 10-for-20 from 3-point range and 22-for-22 from the free throw line) for BC Cibona Zagreb. :lol
Petrovic was recently a subject in an ESPN 30 for 30 film titled "Once Brothers (http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=once-brothers)," which detailed his relationship with Vlade Divac (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divacvl01.html). Their close relationship splintered when war broke out, forcing Petrovic, a Croatian, and Divac, a Serbian, to choose sides.
Petrovic is a member of both the Basketball Hall of Fame and FIBA Hall of Fame.

[BatManu20]

5-way tie tbh:

http://indysportsbarn.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/smits.jpg http://www.ultimatenba.com/galerias/DetlefSchrempf/DetlefSchrempf007.jpg http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luqe3kjf171r6baeio1_400.jpg http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Toni_Kuko%C4%8D.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Sabonis_Lipofsky_(1_of_1).JPG/220px-Sabonis_Lipofsky_(1_of_1).JPG

[romain.star]

5-way tie tbh:

http://indysportsbarn.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/smits.jpg http://www.ultimatenba.com/galerias/DetlefSchrempf/DetlefSchrempf007.jpg http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luqe3kjf171r6baeio1_400.jpg http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Toni_Kuko%C4%8D.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Sabonis_Lipofsky_(1_of_1).JPG/220px-Sabonis_Lipofsky_(1_of_1).JPG

Ah the good old days!

(it seems like a 4-way tie to me)

[Drom John]

Career WS
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Hakeem Olajuwon
Steve Nash
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Pau Gasol
Detlef Schrempf
Vlade Divac
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobili
Peja Stojakovic
Andrei Kirilenko
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Yao Ming
Hedo Turkoglu
Tony Kukoc

I didn't include Dominique Wilkins, Kiki Vandeweghe, Carlos Boozer and James Donaldson, U.S. military brats born overseas.

[PlayNando]

Nando De Colo.

[RD2191]

Nando De Colo.
:lmao

[PlayNando]

Dirk, tbh.

[PlayNando]

:lmao
Prove it.

[Biggems]

Top 5:


Michael Olowokandi
Yi Jianlian
Hasheem Thabeet
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Darko Milicic (at least he has a ring)

[texbound]

1.) Hakeem Olajuwon
2.) Oscar Schmidt (close second)

[Sean Cagney]

The Dream

......

[Man In Black]

PGs-Parker, Nash, Calderon
SG-Ginobili, Petrovic, Marciulionis
SF-Schrempf, Kukoc, Kirilenko
PF-Duncan(The NBA considers him International so why shouldn't I?), Nowtizki, P. Gasol
C-Olajuwon, Sabonis, Smits, Divac, Yao

[romain.star]

PGs-Parker, Nash, Calderon
SG-Ginobili, Petrovic, Marciulionis
SF-Schrempf, Kukoc, Kirilenko
PF-Duncan(The NBA considers him International so why shouldn't I?), Nowtizki, P. Gasol
C-Olajuwon, Sabonis, Smits, Divac, Yao

Nice but i'll put Kukoc above Schrempf and you forgot about Oscar Schmidt and Peja Stojakovic.

[Ron Swanson]

Best player not from Earth:

Sam Cassell

[milkyway21]

Duncan.
Olajuwon
Manu Ginobili

[tim_duncan_fan]

Er...Olajuwon.

[sexinthatsx]

GOAT healthy YAO MING!

[hsxvvd]

Drazen.

[Johnny RIngo]

Duncan.
Olajuwon
Manu Ginobili

lol at Manu being here. He's not even the best Spanish speaking NBA international(Pau Gasol is)

[milkyway21]

lol at Manu being here. He's not even the best Spanish speaking NBA international(Pau Gasol is)

IMO

[Solid D]

PGs-Parker, Nash, Calderon
SG-Ginobili, Petrovic, Marciulionis
SF-Schrempf, Kukoc, Kirilenko
PF-Duncan(The NBA considers him International so why shouldn't I?), Nowtizki, P. Gasol
C-Olajuwon, Sabonis, Smits, Divac, Yao


Nice but i'll put Kukoc above Schrempf and you forgot about Oscar Schmidt and Peja Stojakovic.

...and Dejan Bodiroga. If you want to win, you put Dejan on your team.

Greatest scorer of all time in international play is Oscar Schmidt...if you just want to judge by points (which I don't).

[Solid D]

I guess it depends on how you define international player. If you define it from the US perspective and birthplace...any player born outside of the USA, then I'd probably say Hakeem Olajuwon. Although Hakeem was never a great player in Nigeria, he ranks:
9th all-time in NBA points scored
1st all-time in NBA blocks
8th all-time in NBA steals
12th all-time in NBA rebounds

If you look look at it from world perspective, that would come with lots of caveats and require more definition. Michael Jordan was an international player if you define him as someone who played internationally with the USA NT.

[Gagnrath]

lol at Manu being here. He's not even the best Spanish speaking NBA international(Pau Gasol is)
Manu now is probably much less valuable than either gasol at this point. That said 2005-2010 Manu Ginobli was arguably the second best 2 guard in the world after Kobe Bryant. People were honestly saying that they would rather have him over kobe because he didn't go into ball hog must score 35+ points and was generally playing hard (though some would say gamblers) defense.

People forget that Manu tosses himself all over the court very hard (which is a big part of why he is oft injured) and was 25 before coming to the NBA with lots of time played a euro league that packed the paint against driving guards. He is now an old 36 year old guard and he seems to be having way more trouble adapting to his new limitations than most thought he would. There are a number of reasons for it, but I think its a 3 fold combination of his driving ability and explosiveness have declined so that people are honoring that a bit less knowing they can probably adjust, which means those passes just a hair beyond their fingertips are now within reach since they are playing him more tightly. I also think he has probably lost quite a bit of endurance and recovery. When you are tired you can't move with the same ease which has likely hurt some of the passing and shooting. The final bit is that his own determination and will which have served him so well to this point, are betraying him in admitting to and accepting the changes, in the past trying harder and taking more on himself allowed him to overcome, and now he can't just try harder, which after years of conditioning to do that and be the man might just be the hardest thing of all to accept.

[Johnny RIngo]

Manu now is probably much less valuable than either gasol at this point.

My statement has nothing to do with their current ability - they're both pretty washed up at this point. If you look at their resumes objectively, you can see that Gasol has had a better NBA career than Manu.


That said 2005-2010 Manu Ginobli was arguably the second best 2 guard in the world after Kobe Bryant. People were honestly saying that they would rather have him over kobe because he didn't go into ball hog must score 35+ points and was generally playing hard (though some would say gamblers) defense.

Did Dwyane Wade not exist from 2005-2010? Ginobili was never better than him.

[ElNono]

^ :lmao

[Mayhem321]

Speaking of international... how can i get these little country's flags below the post count?

[temujin]

Ginobili,

then Drazen and Deki Bodiroga.

[temujin]

lol at Manu being here. He's not even the best Spanish speaking NBA international(Pau Gasol is)

:lol

[Gagnrath]

My statement has nothing to do with their current ability - they're both pretty washed up at this point. If you look at their resumes objectively, you can see that Gasol has had a better NBA career than Manu.



Did Dwyane Wade not exist from 2005-2010? Ginobili was never better than him.

He really didn't 2005 was his sophomore year he started looking like he'd be a star, Did look pretty good when he was finals mvp in 2006, 2007 injuries big time, 2008 injuries 2009 best player on a barely play-off team in the Least (and it really was at that time) 2010 good player on a bad team, but it looked kinda like he was a monta ellis guy. Then the LeBron thing.

[milkyway21]

NO way I would pick Gasol over Manu.

Manu made an impact when he embarrassed the U.S. "dream team" in the Olympics when he was named MVP.
That changed the whole thing about international basketball. The world take notice of small team Argentina.

Gasol can't even win a series against the Spurs without Kobe.

[Snaq O'Meal]

shhiiiit

If Sabbas didnt get blocked by the Soviets .......


Imagine a young and healthy Sabonis with the Blazers

Dude could run and dunk like D-Rob ... combine that with hands and court vision

Jordan = fucked :lol

Sorry, but I just can't imagine a young center maintaining two healthy knees while with the Blazers.

[Leetonidas]

Holy fuck some of you are some massively retarded homers. Duncan is not an international player, Virgin Islands are US territory and he played his college ball in the US. There are only two answers: Hakeem if you mean players born in foreign countries and it didn't matter if he played college ball in the US, or Dirk Nowitzki if you mean he never played in the US until the NBA. And I love Manu as much as the next guy, Parker too, but neither of them are even close to prime Nowitzki.

(assuming the subject of this thread is who is the best international player of all time, meaning the NBA player born internationally with the best NBA career)

[ElNono]

It's Hakeem and it's not even close

[Man In Black]

Holy fuck some of you are some massively retarded homers. Duncan is not an international player, Virgin Islands are US territory and he played his college ball in the US. There are only two answers: Hakeem if you mean players born in foreign countries and it didn't matter if he played college ball in the US, or Dirk Nowitzki if you mean he never played in the US until the NBA. And I love Manu as much as the next guy, Parker too, but neither of them are even close to prime Nowitzki.

(assuming the subject of this thread is who is the best international player of all time, meaning the NBA player born internationally with the best NBA career)
Remember Americans...us fans don't determine who is International any more than Phil Jackson determines if an asterisk is warranted or not, the NBA does.
If I post this official link of NBA Internationals, then doesn't that tell us all, that the NBA considers every player on that list...INTERNATIONAL? It does. Just like the asterisk, how we feel about Tim playing for USA and at Wake doesn't mean he ain't International. It's just that at the time Tim was 1st eligible to play for a Senior Men's National Team, there wasn't a US Virgin Islands team to play for. Once you officially play for a senior team, you're locked in. Out of respect for his homeland, Tim Duncan asked Coach Larry Brown and Pop in 04, if it would be okay that he not play any of the prep games when USA plays USVI. He didn't play in any of them. Tim's an American Citizen true, but according to the NBA, Tim Duncan and Raja Bell are both International players from the US Virgin Islands.

http://csl.nba.com/global/international_players_rosters_2012_10_30.html

[Leetonidas]

I don't really care if you wanna bend the definitions to include your favorite player or try to bullshit me with some faggy list. The fact of the matter is Tim Duncan was born in a US territory, played in the US for college, and played on Team USA. He is not an international player. Accept it.

[Phenomanul]

I don't really care if you wanna bend the definitions to include your favorite player or try to bullshit me with some faggy list. The fact of the matter is Tim Duncan was born in a US territory, played in the US for college, and played on Team USA. He is not an international player. Accept it.

Hakeem also played US College Hoops and played on Team USA.

[dunkman]

Dirk and its not even close. Duncan, Hakeem, Ewing and Nash aren't really international players, since they played college ball in the US.

[spursnatic]

Baynes hands down...Best of all time..Never be another better

[roycrikside]

Holy fuck some of you are some massively retarded homers. Duncan is not an international player, Virgin Islands are US territory and he played his college ball in the US. There are only two answers: Hakeem if you mean players born in foreign countries and it didn't matter if he played college ball in the US, or Dirk Nowitzki if you mean he never played in the US until the NBA. And I love Manu as much as the next guy, Parker too, but neither of them are even close to prime Nowitzki.

(assuming the subject of this thread is who is the best international player of all time, meaning the NBA player born internationally with the best NBA career)

I pretty much agree with this. My opinion of a "international" player is one who literally has no contact with the U.S. until he's a professional. I think if you play college ball then you're pretty much indoctrinated to American culture on some level, so based on that, I'd give Dirk Nowitzki the nod as the best one ever.

If we're going strictly by guys born in foreign countries, then yeah, Hakeem is number one.

If you want to the territory thing and really stretch the definition, okay, I'd give Duncan the slight nod over Hakeem, based on longevity.

[3 Legged Dog]

Menk Bateer

[tesseractive]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Zarko Paspalj yet.

[tesseractive]

I pretty much agree with this. My opinion of a "international" player is one who literally has no contact with the U.S. until he's a professional. I think if you play college ball then you're pretty much indoctrinated to American culture on some level, so based on that, I'd give Dirk Nowitzki the nod as the best one ever.
I guess I don't really get how being born and raised in, say, France by French parents and then going off to the US to play starting with college ball is completely different from being born and raised in France by French parents and then going off to the US to play starting with pro ball. Either one seems pretty obviously to be a person who is not from the US and is therefore an "international" player.

[roycrikside]

I guess I don't really get how being born and raised in, say, France by French parents and then going off to the US to play starting with college ball is completely different from being born and raised in France by French parents and then going off to the US to play starting with pro ball. Either one seems pretty obviously to be a person who is not from the US and is therefore an "international" player.


I think I answered that. Guys like Olajuwon and Duncan, among others had four years of college ball to transition to the American game, American teammates, the English language, the culture, the food, the women, etc.

A guy like Dirk or Manu though literally came to the pros fresh and had to learn all that stuff on the fly

[Josepatches_]

For me Sabonis, Drazen and Dirk were the best european players of all time.

But in the 80s it wasn't so easy to play in the NBA if you were born outside the US. Today you can see how european players without talent are drafted every year or players like Splitter or Omer Azik can win 10M $. The talent is smaller in the league.

A healthy Sabonis would be one of the greatest centers of all time but that's life