GOAT Beta?

[AchillesHeel]

Ok, I don't think anyone's gonna argue that the two greatest Betas in NBA history are Kobe Bryant and Scottie Pippen.

But who was the better beta?

Some in-depth analysis you should consider before you take your pick.

Kobe Bryant: Per Game (1996-97 to 2012-13)


From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1997
2013
1239
1091
36.6
8.9
19.6
.454
1.3
3.9
.336
6.4
7.6
.838
1.2
4.2
5.3
4.8
1.5
0.5
3.0
2.6
25.5



Scottie Pippen: Per Game (1987-88 to 2003-04)


From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS


1988
2004
1178
1053
34.9
6.3
13.3
.473
0.8
2.5
.326
2.7
3.8
.704
1.8
4.6
6.4
5.2
2.0
0.8
2.8
2.8
16.1




Kobe Bryant: Advanced (1996-97 to 2012-13)


From
To
G
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


1997
2013
1239
45390
23.4
.555
.487
3.6
12.6
8.2
24.2
2.1
1.0
11.6
31.8
112
105
123.8
49.5
173.3
.183





Scottie Pippen: Advanced (1987-88 to 2003-04)


From
To
G
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


1988
2004
1178
41069
18.6
.536
.504
5.9
15.3
10.6
23.1
2.9
1.6
15.6
22.5
108
102
57.8
67.3
125.1
.146




You also must consider that one was a #2 option for most of his career and kept himself in check and played his role while the other player despite being a #2 jacked up 20 shots a game and hogged the ball as much as he could, one was the best wing defender of his era (or 2nd to MJ) while the other Beta refused to play team defense and still consistently leaves 3pt shooters open and doesn't run back on D to help his team after another one of his bricks.

Accolades

Beta #1



Career highlights and awards




6× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_NBA_Finals)–1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NBA_Finals), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Finals)–1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NBA_Finals))
7× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NBA_All-Star_Game), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_All-Star_Game))
NBA All-Star Game MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_All-Star_Game))
3× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season)–1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season))
2× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_NBA_season), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
2× All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season), 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_NBA_season))
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_NBA_season)–1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season))
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_NBA_season))
NBA steals leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_ste als_leaders) (1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season))
#33 Retired by the Chicago Bulls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Bulls#Retired_numbers_and_honorees)
#33 Retired by the University of Central Arkansas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Central_Arkansas#Notable_alumni)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History)




Career NBA statistics


Points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(basketball))
18,940 (16.1 ppg)


Assists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assist_(basketball))
6,135 (5.2 apg)


Steals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_(basketball))
2,307 (2.0 spg)





Basketball Hall of Fame as player (http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers/tag/scottie-pippen)


Medals[hide] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Pippen#)


Men's Basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball)


Competitor for http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)


Gold
1992 Barcelona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics)
National team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_1992_Summer_Olympics)


Gold
1996 Atlanta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Summer_Olympics)
National team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics)








Beta #2



Career highlights and awards




5× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Finals)–2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals), 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_Finals)–2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) (2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_Finals)–2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Finals))
NBA Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season))
15× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NBA_All-Star_Game), 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_All-Star_Game)–2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_All-Star_Game))
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_All-Star_Game), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_All-Star_Game), 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_All-Star_Game),2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_All-Star_Game))
2× NBA scoring champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_sco ring_leaders) (2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season)–2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_NBA_season))
11× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_NBA_season)–2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_NBA_season), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season)–2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_NBA_season))
2× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_NBA_season)–2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_NBA_season))
2× All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season), 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NBA_season))
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_NBA_season),2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_NBA_season)–2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_NBA_season), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season)–2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NBA_season))
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_NBA_season)–2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_NBA_season),2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Weekend_Slam_Dunk_Contest) (1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_All-Star_Game))
Los Angeles Lakers all-time leading scorer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_franchise_ career_scoring_leaders)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith_Prep_Player_of_the_Year_Award) (1996)




Stats (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant) at NBA.com


Stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html) at Basketball-Reference.com


Medals[hide] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant#)


Men's basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_Summer_Olympics)


Competitor for the http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)


Olympic Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games)


Gold
2008 Beijing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics)
Men's basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_M en)


Gold
2012 London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics)
Men's basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_M en)


FIBA Americas Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Americas_Championship)


Gold
2007 Las Vegas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Americas_Championship_2007)
Men's basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Americas_Championship_2007)









You be the judge.

[jeebus]

Semen shield is the goat beta tbh

[tlongII]

Good thread. :tu

[MeloHype]

6>5

[Arnold Toht]

6

[MeloHype]

:cry

[Thread]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Katherine Robinson]

I pray that we have more Kobe Bryant and Laker threads in this forum, there has been a severe lacking as of late.

[spurraider21]

why is a mavfan posting 6?

[Samuel Eto'o]

why is a mavfan posting 6?

why the fuck do you care?

[spurraider21]

why the fuck do you care?

a mavfan making fun of the spurs seems ridiculous at this point, thats why. a non-playoff 1 and done team who tanked for 2 years to land monta ellis should keep their pipes shut when it comes to the spurs

[MeloHype]

2006

[Samuel Eto'o]

a mavfan making fun of the spurs seems ridiculous at this point, thats why. a non-playoff 1 and done team who tanked for 2 years to land monta ellis should keep their pipes shut when it comes to the spurs

That doesn't make 6 any less funny. Especially when it was preceded by a backdoor sweep and 8. :lol spurfans have had it rough recently

[Thread]

That doesn't make 6 any less funny. Especially when it was preceded by a backdoor sweep and 8. :lol spurfans have had it rough recently

Yep, they've been picked up, body slammed, had their snout broke and their head smashed into cement.

And frankly? They had it comin', Sammy.

[spurraider21]

Yep, they've been picked up, body slammed, had their snout broke and their head smashed into cement.

And frankly? They had it comin', Sammy.

so you're saying we should shoot the miami heat?

[Thread]

so you're saying we should shoot the miami heat?

You shot 'em once. They were dead in ground. The problem was you didn't leave them there. They sat up like Arnold outside the Techno Bar in Terminator.

[lefty]

Pippen in 1993-1994 led the Bulls to a 55 win record and they were 1 second away from knocking out the NYK

Playing with scrubs like Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong in as tough EC, in an era that wasnt pussyfied yet



Kobe would have never done that





Game, set and match

[whitemamba]

You shot 'em once. They were dead in ground. The problem was you didn't leave them there. They sat up like Arnold outside the Techno Bar in Terminator.

:rollin

[AchillesHeel]

:lol Kirby getting shitted on this thread, 2 - 8 lmfao

Proves my point, Kirby as a beta wasn't even as good as Pippen, how can this scrub even be considered as a top 10 GOAT when Pippen was better at what Kirby did? One Finals MVP doesn't prove shit, 2010 Gasol got robbedPERIOD. If you Laker fans don't agree you're fucking delusional.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Kobe has more rings than Shaquille. You're seriously stupid if you think Shaq was the main star in that series.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol Kirby getting shitted on this thread, 2 - 8 lmfao

Proves my point, Kirby as a beta wasn't even as good as Pippen, how can this scrub even be considered as a top 10 GOAT when Pippen was better at what Kirby did? One Finals MVP doesn't prove shit, 2010 Gasol got robbedPERIOD. If you Laker fans don't agree you're fucking delusional.
Have you ever watched Pippen? He's one of the greatest of all time...

[Calispursfan11]

Pippen clearly lived in Jordan's shadow. All subjectivity aside though, can a convincing argument really be made that he would have been more successful carrying a team by himself over a number of years? The sample size is just too small to know since Pippen was only solo for a short time. Btw, Horace and BJ were not scrubs. Far from that. They were great players in their own right.

[ohmwrecker]

Pippen was less selfish than Kirby . . . so I'll go with Scottie.

[DwayneSchintzius]

Scottie Pippen is one of the 50 greatest of all time, thats the most respect he will ever get.

[Rogue]

The difference is that every Alpha enjoyed playing with Scottie who was the beta, while the other candidate annoyed his Alpha and other teammates and drove them out of town, more like a fated beta trapped in an Alpha role throughout his lifetime imho. Real betas will never steal or extort the pants from their Alphas