Manu Ginobili is the back up 3

[kobyz]

Like i envision before this off season start, Manu will play next season the majority of his time at sf, that is right now at this point of his career it's the only role he capeble to, he should be forbid to play at guard and endle the ball too much... So that is the reason Spurs aren't in hurry to bring another sf...

[xmas1997]

link?

[dbestpro]

..........and some of us think Manu will move back into the starting lineup so he won't try to over play being the "man" off the bench. this allows Danny Green to be the backup SF, which he showed he could do in the playoffs. This way Pop keeps a fresh perimeter defender on the floor at all times.

[illusioNtEk]

Lol where the fuk u get this info from ?

its logical that he is back up 3, however RC said we have a hole in the 3 spot so Manu is backing up Danny tbh

[Kidd K]

He's the backup 2, and he's basically the backup playmaker too.

He will have the exact same role as last year since the Spurs brought in nobody to take over some of his responsibility. Expect more of the same regarding Ginobili and how he's used.

Spur fans, you better hope Corey Joseph and Kawhi Leonard take a quantum leap forward offensively.

[PlayNando]

Like i envision before this off season start, Manu will play next season the majority of his time at sf, that is right now at this point of his career it's the only role he capeble to, he should be forbid to play at guard and endle the ball too much... So that is the reason Spurs aren't in hurry to bring another sf...
Stoopid post is stoopid, tbh.

[spurraider21]

When I think of reasons we lost in the finals, backup SF wasn't one of them tbh

[TXstbobcat]

I think Manu goes back to the bench at the 2 guard spot with the same role as last year. Green will still be the starter.

[Sean Cagney]

He's the backup 2, and he's basically the backup playmaker too.

He will have the exact same role as last year since the Spurs brought in nobody to take over some of his responsibility. Expect more of the same regarding Ginobili and how he's used.

Spur fans, you better hope Corey Joseph and Kawhi Leonard take a quantum leap forward offensively.I think Belli can handle some of that duty you mentioned but this ^^^^^^^^
When I think of reasons we lost in the finals, backup SF wasn't one of them tbh

That is very true.

[wildbill2u]

I think Pop is part of the trend--maybe the trendsetter for the whole league--in using players who can play several positions as interchangeable pieces. While Manu and Green aren't as tall as the prototypical SF of the past, neither is Leonard and neither was Bowen.

We have to stop thinking in terms of the game in the NBA of years ago because the 3pt shot has changed the game so much.

[Bruno]

Ginobili might play some SF but he will still have a lot the ball in his hands. Spurs haven't signed him to a $14.5M/2 years contract to play off the ball while he isn't a great shooter or defender.

[TXstbobcat]

He can still drive to the basket and draw fouls.

[kobyz]

Ginobili might play some SF but he will still have a lot the ball in his hands. Spurs haven't signed him to a $14.5M/2 years contract to play off the ball while he isn't a great shooter or defender.

So that will ruin Spurs next season if that the case... Gino need to transform his game to being an off the ball player, need to work in his outside shooting this summer, especially corner threes, to focus more on defense, and trying to be like super role player for the team.

[kobyz]

He can still drive to the basket and draw fouls.

But not as primerry player, only as secondary option, if he will be primerry player he will do more bad than good.

[Diego20]

Ginobili might play some SF but he will still have a lot the ball in his hands. Spurs haven't signed him to a $14.5M/2 years contract to play off the ball while he isn't a great shooter or defender.

What? He is a good defender and we always take offensive fouls because of his defense, especially in a 1v1.

[GoodOdor]

What? He is a good defender and we always take offensive fouls because of his defense, especially in a 1v1.

Nash takes a lot of charges. Do you think he is a good defender?

[ElNono]

So that will ruin Spurs next season if that the case... Gino need to transform his game to being an off the ball player, need to work in his outside shooting this summer, especially corner threes, to focus more on defense, and trying to be like super role player for the team.

define "ruin the Spurs next season"? 50 wins instead of 58 wins?

[ElNono]

And Manu isn't a "great" defender at this point, agree with Bruno on that, but he's more than serviceable. He definitely did a good job on Wade during the Finals, sometimes even better than Green. Not really worried about that. Neal coming back would probably be more worrisome, and Beli made improvements in Chicago, but he isn't anything to write home about in that department either, tbh...

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Nash takes a lot of charges. Do you think he is a good defender?
Are you comparing Ginobilis defense to Nash's?

[Kidd K]

I think Belli can handle some of that duty you mentioned but this ^^^^^^^^

That is very true.

Some of, but not very much at all. The Bulls are the only other team I watch extensively, and Belinelli definitely can't do tons in terms of playmaking. He's better than nothing, yeah, but he's not exactly a primetime creator. He's kinda just a little better than "can't do anything but shoot". I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on him makin plays for the Spurs unfortunately.

[KL2]

..........and some of us think Manu will move back into the starting lineup so he won't try to over play being the "man" off the bench. this allows Danny Green to be the backup SF, which he showed he could do in the playoffs. This way Pop keeps a fresh perimeter defender on the floor at all times.


I don't remember Green playing much SF in the playoffs, he made some nice plays on LBJ but he was playing out if his mind that series. I do remember Green filling in for Leonard at the beginning of the season and struggling horribly at SF.

Green looks far too small to be guarding SF's, he's great at defending small guards and PG's, but lacks the strength to guard bigger guys. Wade had his way with Green because he was too big, he'd bump him and Green would go flying.

[spurraider21]

ginobili is not a defensive liability. not sure where all that's coming from. he's not as good as he used to be, but he used to be one of the better defenders around.

[BackHome]

Manu plays SF then he is going to be wearing a body cast and miss at least forty games.

[td4mvp2k]

Manu not a 3 hes a 2 u foo!

[Sean Cagney]

Some of, but not very much at all. The Bulls are the only other team I watch extensively, and Belinelli definitely can't do tons in terms of playmaking. He's better than nothing, yeah, but he's not exactly a primetime creator. He's kinda just a little better than "can't do anything but shoot". I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on him makin plays for the Spurs unfortunately.

Okay, but that still sounds better than Neal to me. I guess we might have to rely on a 21 year old Corey Joseph doing better or taking some of the load for backup playmaking.
Manu plays SF then he is going to be wearing a body cast and miss at least forty games.

True.

[cd021]

Manu plays SF then he is going to be wearing a body cast and miss at least forty games.

Yeah because there's an abundance of big bruising backup SFs in the west. There isn't any good reason why he can't play SF for 12-15 mpg

[cd021]

Beli is our backup it seems at SF. He isn't going to see minutes at 2 guard with Green logging 30+ mpg and Manu playing about 18mpg. Manu won't be logging close to 24 mpg in my opinion. 18-20 minutes. Over 70 games that would trim his minutes down by 420 minutes. The equivalent to 17.5 games at the minutes (compared with the minutes played last season)

Beli is 6'5 and most backups in the NBA are off ball players who just spot up or cut. It would be fairly easy to cover. Most teams don't post their backup SFs either.

Joseph/Mills/ De Colo
Ginobili/Mills/ De Colo
Belineil/Diaw
Diaw/Bonner
Baynes/Pendergraph

is a more than solid bench

[cd021]

I don't remember Green playing much SF in the playoffs, he made some nice plays on LBJ but he was playing out if his mind that series. I do remember Green filling in for Leonard at the beginning of the season and struggling horribly at SF.

Green looks far too small to be guarding SF's, he's great at defending small guards and PG's, but lacks the strength to guard bigger guys. Wade had his way with Green because he was too big, he'd bump him and Green would go flying.

His defensive PER was actually the lower at SF. His struggles at that position was somewhat overstated.

[BackHome]

If your counting on Manu having a healthy season then your one of those folks who see the "Glass half full"..For me if they do not reduce his minutes he will miss half the season and making him play defense against SF is just putting more strain on his fragile body..

[dallasmaverickslose]

Like i envision before this off season start, Manu will play next season the majority of his time at sf, that is right now at this point of his career it's the only role he capeble to, he should be forbid to play at guard and endle the ball too much... So that is the reason Spurs aren't in hurry to bring another sf...

I'd say you're wrong.

[xmas1997]

Like i envision before this off season start, Manu will play next season the majority of his time at sf, that is right now at this point of his career it's the only role he capeble to, he should be forbid to play at guard and endle the ball too much... So that is the reason Spurs aren't in hurry to bring another sf...


I still want to see the LINK where you got your info to base your opinion on!
Otherwise it is just another rumor and started by you!

[TheGreatYacht]

If your counting on Manu having a healthy season then your one of those folks who see the "Glass half full"..For me if they do not reduce his minutes he will miss half the season and making him play defense against SF is just putting more strain on his fragile body..Best comment on the thread thus far. Manu doesn't have the strength to defend stronger or quicker players at this point in his career. He just needs to handle the ball less and hope that CoJo develops into a legit backup PG. If CoJo can play with the mentality that he played with in the first two games of the summer league, then CoJo will have an easier time solidifying is role on the team.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

When I think of reasons we lost in the finals, backup SF wasn't one of them tbh

Yes it was.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Best comment on the thread thus far. Manu doesn't have the strength to defend stronger or quicker players at this point in his career. He just needs to handle the ball less and hope that CoJo develops into a legit backup PG. If CoJo can play with the mentality that he played with in the first two games of the summer league, then CoJo will have an easier time solidifying is role on the team.

Let's examine a few things:

Cory Joseph is a below average PG. He was at Texas and left after only 1 year behind speculation that the incoming freshman the next year would make him the backup. He really wasn't worthy of a 1st round pick (even though it was near the end) but he was probably the best PG selection when the Spurs took him.

IF, and that's a still a fairly large if, he develops into a quality backup PG, then it's a bonus. But right now, he's not progressing to be in my opinion. A quality backup PG that can be relied upon in playoff and finals situations is something along the lines of a jarret jack, randy foye, dj augustin, George hill, etc. Maybe Cojo will develop into that but he isn't really close right now.

Enter marco belinelli. A SG who, in the mold of Ginobili, is the primary decision maker for the 2nd unit. Yes, a PG is still needed on the 2nd unit, but the pick and roll, pick and pop, etc. runs through the backup decision maker. Belinelli is Manu's replacement if De Colo doesn't develop.

[spurraider21]

Let's examine a few things:

Cory Joseph is a below average PG. He was at Texas and left after only 1 year behind speculation that the incoming freshman the next year would make him the backup. He really wasn't worthy of a 1st round pick (even though it was near the end) but he was probably the best PG selection when the Spurs took him.

IF, and that's a still a fairly large if, he develops into a quality backup PG, then it's a bonus. But right now, he's not progressing to be in my opinion. A quality backup PG that can be relied upon in playoff and finals situations is something along the lines of a jarret jack, randy foye, dj augustin, George hill, etc. Maybe Cojo will develop into that but he isn't really close right now.

Enter marco belinelli. A SG who, in the mold of Ginobili, is the primary decision maker for the 2nd unit. Yes, a PG is still needed on the 2nd unit, but the pick and roll, pick and pop, etc. runs through the backup decision maker. Belinelli is Manu's replacement if De Colo doesn't develop.
i'd take CoJo over DJ Augustin right now. Randy Foye is a 2-guard and is a 3 point specialist

[Tyrone Jenkins]

i'd take CoJo over DJ Augustin right now. Randy Foye is a 2-guard and is a 3 point specialist

DeColo over Augustin? Not so sure anyone else in the league would...

Foye is a combo-guard in the mode of George Hill. Kinda like what Belinelli is...only better on defense.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

i'd take CoJo over DJ Augustin right now. Randy Foye is a 2-guard and is a 3 point specialist

DeColo over Augustin? Not so sure anyone else in the league would...

Foye is a combo-guard in the mode of George Hill. Kinda like what Belinelli is...only better on defense.

[TD 21]

I still want to see the LINK where you got your info to base your opinion on!
Otherwise it is just another rumor and started by you!

:lol Why would a link be required, when it's obvious? For the umpteenth time, the Belinelli signing clinched Ginobili/Green playing backup SF.

You and others, who either haven't figured this out or haven't come to terms with it, must be thinking about this in terms of his role offensively or lack of minutes available (for a player of his caliber) behind Leonard, but you're going about it all wrong. In the case of the former, by default, he'll still be the de facto backup PG offensively and in the case of the latter, he'll basically split minutes with Green and Belinelli will receive the minutes behind Leonard.

[spurraider21]

DeColo over Augustin? Not so sure anyone else in the league would...

Foye is a combo-guard in the mode of George Hill. Kinda like what Belinelli is...only better on defense.
i said CoJo, not De Colo

[Tyrone Jenkins]

i said CoJo, not De Colo

Yes, you did. My bad.

But I wouldn't take Cojo of Augustin right now. Maybe in 3 years...

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Let's face it - the Spurs don't have a backup 3. They can put Diaw or Green or Ginobili or even Tony Parker there but that doesn't make them a true back up 3. They need to get one.

Mikael Pietrus makes the most sense. He's cheap, he's been a reliable perimeter defender before, he can hit the corner 3 and he's foreign.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Let's face it - the Spurs don't have a backup 3. They can put Diaw or Green or Ginobili or even Tony Parker there but that doesn't make them a true back up 3. They need to get one.

Mikael Pietrus makes the most sense. He's cheap, he's been a reliable perimeter defender before, he can hit the corner 3 and he's foreign.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yes, you did. My bad.

But I wouldn't take Cojo of Augustin right now. Maybe in 3 years...

I'm with spurraider21 on this one. Backup PG was a bigger issue with Indiana than it was for the Spurs (which admittedly, was a big issue for us in the Finals) because of Augistin's poor play. If Indiana had one more bench player (especially a quality backup PG), we likely would have been facing them in the Finals this past season.

[kobyz]

fuck this garbage off season!!! this time we needed to bring an high profile player, instead we made all the worng moves, we needed to add another star, another creator... fuck Manu Ginobili, he should have sign for the minimum, he should have return with a Ray Allen type role significance, but now the team didn't strengthen and even got weaken, now for the team to lower the reliance on Manu, like they should, will be hard... on top of that Spurs use the money they do have on Marco who is semi scrub, isn't a good fit if you already bring back Manu, not halp us with what we need.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

fuck this garbage off season!!! this time we needed to bring an high profile player, instead we made all the worng moves, we needed to add another star, another creator... fuck Manu Ginobili, he should have sign for the minimum, he should have return with a Ray Allen type role significance, but now the team didn't strengthen and even got weaken, now for the team to lower the reliance on Manu, like they should, will be hard... on top of that Spurs use the money they do have on Marco who is semi scrub, isn't a good fit if you already bring back Manu, not halp us with what we need.

So, you blame Ginobili for taking the $ offered? You're saying he should've told the team "No, I don't want that much. Sign me up for the vet minimum...I don't want a whole lot of $. All those years of production before now - eh, just forget about that. 6th man of the year - yeah, that was nothing. I really don't deserve the vet minimum based on last season alone and let's not even discuss the 9 seasons I played before that."

I wonder how many Spurs Forum posters would go to work and tell their bosses they deserve less pay after one year of less than optimal work?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

fuck this garbage off season!!! this time we needed to bring an high profile player, instead we made all the worng moves, we needed to add another star, another creator... fuck Manu Ginobili, he should have sign for the minimum, he should have return with a Ray Allen type role significance, but now the team didn't strengthen and even got weaken, now for the team to lower the reliance on Manu, like they should, will be hard... on top of that Spurs use the money they do have on Marco who is semi scrub, isn't a good fit if you already bring back Manu, not halp us with what we need.

So, you blame Ginobili for taking the $ offered? You're saying he should've told the team "No, I don't want that much. Sign me up for the vet minimum...I don't want a whole lot of $. All those years of production before now - eh, just forget about that. 6th man of the year - yeah, that was nothing. I really don't deserve the vet minimum based on last season alone and let's not even discuss the 9 seasons I played before that."

I wonder how many Spurs Forum posters would go to work and tell their bosses they deserve less pay after one year of less than optimal work?

[TheGreatYacht]

So, you blame Ginobili for taking the $ offered? Nobody knows exactly how things went behind closed doors but if you're theory were to be correct, then I blame the FO for rewarding his pathetic performance in the NBA finals.
You're saying he should've told the team "No, I don't want that much. Sign me up for the vet minimum...I don't want a whole lot of $. All those years of production before now - eh, just forget about that. 6th man of the year - yeah, that was nothing. I really don't deserve the vet minimum based on last season alone and let's not even discuss the 9 seasons I played before that."

I wonder how many Spurs Forum posters would go to work and tell their bosses they deserve less pay after one year of less than optimal work? The hell with the loyalty BS, he cost Timmy his 5th ring and don't have the guts to admit it just like Pop. If the FO rather keep Manu while overpaying him then this tells me how much the FO would rather lose with Manu than win without him...smh, very clever.

If Manu had any decency, he would tell the FO "I played very bad, I almost single-handedly cost the organization a championship, I owe it to Timmy, I will take a pay cut. I'll do whatever is necessary to make sure we have the best team possible."

Of course that greedy bald guy cynically signs a $14 M contract and possibly downgrades the team should father time catch up to Timmy.

[xmas1997]

Nobody knows exactly how things went behind closed doors but if you're theory were to be correct, then I blame the FO for rewarding his pathetic performance in the NBA finals. The hell with the loyalty BS, he cost Timmy his 5th ring and don't have the guts to admit it just like Pop. If the FO rather keep Manu while overpaying him then this tells me how much the FO would rather lose with Manu than win without him...smh, very clever. If Manu had any decency, he would tell the FO "I played very bad, I almost single-handedly cost the organization a championship, I owe it to Timmy, I will take a pay cut. I'll do whatever is necessary to make sure we have the best team possible." Of course that greedy bald guy cynically signs a $14 M contract and possibly downgrades the team should father time catch up to Timmy.

First I am neither a Manu lover or hater, I am a Spurs fan.
What you are saying is so much BS it makes me want to puke. It was THE WHOLE TEAM that caused them to lose, I saw all the games, and I mistakenly thought you did too. They all made mistakes, even the best players do, they are human. You lose all credibility in your posts when you make such preposterous statements.
You show only how irrational you are, and then when you rebut calling people haters or lovers, you show your age and maturity level.:nope

Second, you never answered WHY you were being called a racist! Why?
I've read most of your posts, and you don't sound racist, rather you sound irrational and immature, but that is a long way from being racist!

[TheGreatYacht]

First I am neither a Manu lover or hater, I am a Spurs fan.
What you are saying is so much BS it makes me want to puke. It was THE WHOLE TEAM that caused them to lose, I saw all the games, and I mistakenly thought you did too. They all made mistakes, even the best players do, they are human. You lose all credibility in your posts when you make such preposterous statements.Pop being stubborn with his player rotations and managing of player minutes if the middle of a Game 6 is just as bad. Pop's insistence on leaving Manu on the floor despite how terrible he was playing makes Pop the most responsible for the biggest choke in NBA history. Maybe it wasn't Manu's fault that Pop continued to trust him but he certainly had more than enough opportunities to redeem himself which he failed to do. Manu missed the crucial FT despite being one of our most experienced FT shooter throughout his career. He turned the ball over 8 times. There is no other way to justify and try to spread the blame, it's a losing battle.

[TheGreatYacht]

First I am neither a Manu lover or hater, I am a Spurs fan.
What you are saying is so much BS it makes me want to puke. It was THE WHOLE TEAM that caused them to lose, I saw all the games, and I mistakenly thought you did too. They all made mistakes, even the best players do, they are human. You lose all credibility in your posts when you make such preposterous statements.
You show only how irrational you are, and then when you rebut calling people haters or lovers, you show your age and maturity level.:nope

Second, you never answered WHY you were being called a racist! Why?
I've read most of your posts, and you don't sound racist, rather you sound irrational and immature, but that is a long way from being racist! If not being a homer makes me irrational and immature, then sure, whatever helps you sleep better. The same can be said of homers, you have no idea how ridiculous blind you'll are with your homerism. I'm not racist at all. If anyone thinks I'm racist then that's just some hater of mine thinking that I will get insulted. I actually find it funny.

[xmas1997]

Pop being stubborn with his player rotations and managing of player minutes if the middle of a Game 6 is just as bad. Pop's insistence on leaving Manu on the floor despite how terrible he was playing makes Pop the most responsible for the biggest choke in NBA history. Maybe it wasn't Manu's fault that Pop continued to trust him but he certainly had more than enough opportunities to redeem himself which he failed to do. Manu missed the crucial FT despite being one of our most experienced FT shooter throughout his career. He turned the ball over 8 times. There is no other way to justify and try to spread the blame, it's a losing battle.

Hell, they all missed critical free throws, kawhis' comes to mind, but that doesn't make him a terrible player. Manu choked, but that doesn't make him a terrible player, Pop made some mistakes, they do and did, but that doesn't warrant anyone's wrath and disdain. Pop, rightfully so IMHO, went with the players that got them there and at the time there was no way of knowing they would not come through again. Unfortunately they didn't, but it isn't the end of the world. Who do you think you are, judge, jury, and executioner? Could you have done better?
Get over yourself!

[xmas1997]

If not being a homer makes me irrational and immature, then sure, whatever helps you sleep better. The same can be said of homers, you have no idea how ridiculous blind you'll are with your homerism. I'm not racist at all. If anyone thinks I'm racist then that's just some hater of mine thinking that I will get insulted. I actually find it funny.

I, for one, never found anything you said as being even remotely racist.
However my other criticisms stand, and your posts back them up, sorry!

We've already been over the definitions of homerism and apparently you still don't understand.
Some people only hear and see what they want to hear and see, you illustrate this point perfectly.:sleep

[TheGreatYacht]

Hell, they all missed critical free throws, kawhis' comes to mind, but that doesn't make him a terrible player. Manu choked, but that doesn't make him a terrible player, Pop made some mistakes, they do and did, but that doesn't warrant anyone's wrath and disdain. Pop, rightfully so IMHO, went with the players that got them there and at the time there was no way of knowing they would not come through again. Unfortunately they didn't, but it isn't the end of the world. Who do you think you are, judge, jury, and executioner? Could you have done better?
Get over yourself!Apparently you don't visit downstairs but I'll go ahead and replay this for you:
So now you're blaming it all on chance and bad luck? Give me a break. The Spurs had all the luck on their side to be champions through out the playoffs. Kobe had the Achilles injury, Manu hit the game winning shot against GSW in Game 1, Russell Westbrook gets injured therefore we avoid OKC in the WCF so that we can sweep Memphis and get 10 DAYS TO PREPARE for the Heat and rest our banged up players. Tony Parker's potential game winning shot in Game 1 was incredible. Finally, Parker's huge three point shot in Game 6 to give us the lead by 5 points with 28 seconds to go was also a factor. See where I'm going?

We had that championship luck or the stars were aligned for us to be the champs but what happened? Pop and Manu fucked it all up in Game 6.
Not really. Tim Duncan would have more rings if the FO didn't take shortcuts every year and put their loyalty aside for a bit.

The FO overpaid that bald headed man and rewarded him for his pathetic performance throughout the NBA finals outside of Game 5. The FO has not gotten rid of Matt Bonner. The FO jumped the gun on wasting their MLE on Belinelli and Pendergraph instead of patiently waiting for an available FA such as AK47.Once again, you’re resorting to the chance and bad luck tactic. LMAO, Manu didn't get us there, it was Green's terrific shooting in the NBA finals, Duncan's rejuvenated year, TP's MVP like year, and role players such as Bonner (against the Lakers & Heat), Neal, Diaw, and CoJo. The Big 3 (Duncan, TP, and Kawhi) carried most of the load in the NBA finals but Pop with his dumbass rotations, resting of players, insistence on Manu despite how terrible he was playing in Game 6 fucked it all up. Manu Turnobili with 8 turnovers in Game 6 fucked it all up.

In summary, Pop and Manu fucked it all up.

[xmas1997]

If you don't think luck plays a part in winning then you are not only irrational, but also self delusional.
Pop and Manu DID NOT SCREW IT ALL UP, THE WHOLE TEAM DID., and this is as much a fact as you not being racist. You made your point a million posts ago. What, you don't have enough confidence in what you said that you have to keep posting the same nonsense over and over and over again?
I'm just glad you're going back to school soon so we don't have to suffer through your inane posts anymore, geeez!
Get over yourself!:bang m:hate lion

[TheGreatYacht]

If you don't think luck plays a part in winning then you are not only irrational, but also self delusional.
Pop and Manu DID NOT SCREW IT ALL UP, THE WHOLE TEAM DID., and this is as much a fact as you not being racist.
I'm just glad you're going back to school soon so we don't have to suffer through your inane posts anymore, geeez!
Get over yourself!:bangI just said that luck is part of winning championships. "We had that championship luck or the stars were aligned for us to be the champs but what happened?" Pop and Manu shat the bed in Game 6. Look, to each his own. Obviously we will never come to an agreement. Some people have their mind set already no matter how many fact are presented to them. I'm very open-minded and somebody has yet to convince me otherwise in regards to Pop and Manu so that tells a lot about how much homerism can blind someone's head.

[xmas1997]

I just said that luck is part of winning championships. "We had that championship luck or the stars were aligned for us to be the champs but what happened?" Pop and Manu shat the bed in Game 6. Look, to each his own. Obviously we will never come to an agreement. Some people have their mind set already no matter how many fact are presented to them. I'm very open-minded and somebody has yet to convince me otherwise in regards to Pop and Manu so that tells a lot about how much homerism can blind someone's head.


But the Spurs didn't win it all, did they? No, so luck wasn't with them this time, final analysis!
And all you can do is claim and accuse "homerism", just like those others claimed and accused you of being a racist.
I don't buy either preposterous claim!

[TheGoldStandard]

This is going to be the lingering debate for years to come but nobody on the Spurs will ever point the finger, it will always be a team blame and guys like Duncan will blame themselves. Pop of course doesn't even care anymore because he's not out there actually playing the game and has other things that occupy his mind when its not on basketball. I was really upset after the Finals, took me a few weeks to really let it go and still hurts when I see the commercials or they bring it up but for me what's done is done..

The hardest thing is the roster coming back, a lot of things will have to line up just right for the Spurs to get that kind of shot again. I think right now most Spur fans are okay that they brought back the same lineup with no major changes but I have a feeling that if we have a short season next year people will complain a lot more. I think the Spur FO will probably not rock the boat next season either, pretty much keep things the same way too regardless of how they do and then Spur fan will be even more upset. I don't agree with the money that Tiago & Manu are getting or picking up Pendergraph but that's on the FO. If things go south and we don't see Tiago step up and earn his money that's on the FO, if Manu falls apart that's on the FO..

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Anyone who thinks that the 2013 NBA Finals was lost due SOLELY to the play of Manu Ginobili isn't a very good basketball analyst.

Anyone who thinks that the 2013 NBA Finals was lost due MOSTLY to the play of Manu Ginobili is understandable but still wrong.

Anyone who thinks that the 2013 NBA Finals was lost due to sporadically poor play by Ginobili coupled with opportunities missed by several other players and coach would be absolutely correct. Manu Ginobili had a bad series overall - no doubt about that. But lets not forget that Pop made mistakes in not having TD in the game at the end of game 6 and in not electing to foul to put the Heat on the line. TP was having a horrible game 6 (he did make some decent plays down the stretch despite horrendous decisions). His game 7 wasn't much better. Kawhi missed a FT to put the game up by 4 instead of 3 inside of 30 secs left. TD missed an easy layup and putback (2 shots) to tie the game late in game 7.

Even now, in perfect 20/20 hindsight, thinking the Ginobili himself was the cause for a loss of a championship is preposterous.

Now, him accepting less than $14 million/yr is another topic altogether. How much value should be placed on his play during the season to get the team into the playoffs and the Finals?

[TheGreatYacht]

This is going to be the lingering debate for years to come but nobody on the Spurs will ever point the finger, it will always be a team blame and guys like Duncan will blame themselves. Pop of course doesn't even care anymore because he's not out there actually playing the game and has other things that occupy his mind when its not on basketball. I was really upset after the Finals, took me a few weeks to really let it go and still hurts when I see the commercials or they bring it up but for me what's done is done..

The hardest thing is the roster coming back, a lot of things will have to line up just right for the Spurs to get that kind of shot again. I think right now most Spur fans are okay that they brought back the same lineup with no major changes but I have a feeling that if we have a short season next year people will complain a lot more. I think the Spur FO will probably not rock the boat next season either, pretty much keep things the same way too regardless of how they do and then Spur fan will be even more upset. I don't agree with the money that Tiago & Manu are getting or picking up Pendergraph but that's on the FO. If things go south and we don't see Tiago step up and earn his money that's on the FO, if Manu falls apart that's on the FO..Well said overall. I think the same can be said of Manu. I feel that he rather be with his family than on the basketball court. One can only hope that the $14M will help tip the scale. Even then, I doubt since his $14 M didn't do shit for him in the finals.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Well said overall. I think the same can be said of Manu. I feel that he rather be with his family than on the basketball court. One can only hope that the $14M will help tip the scale. Even then, I doubt since his $14 M didn't do shit for him in the finals.
If there is anyone, ANYONE, who thinks that professional sports players - especially players on teams that are in the Finals - would rather be somewhere else than playing IN THE FINALS, then those people have never played sports competitively.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Well said overall. I think the same can be said of Manu. I feel that he rather be with his family than on the basketball court. One can only hope that the $14M will help tip the scale. Even then, I doubt since his $14 M didn't do shit for him in the finals.
If there is anyone, ANYONE, who thinks that professional sports players - especially players on teams that are in the Finals - would rather be somewhere else than playing IN THE FINALS, then those people have never played sports competitively.

[TheGreatYacht]

If there is anyone, ANYONE, who thinks that professional sports players - especially players on teams that are in the Finals - would rather be somewhere else than playing IN THE FINALS, then those people have never played sports competitively.Manu's not feeling that desire to win anymore. He is satisfied with his 3 rings. His "so-so" evaluation of himself tells it all. Just like Pop, he won't live up to his mistakes. Manu doesn't believe in himself anymore. He's content with having just reach Game 7. Tim on the other hand was devastated. Go google his pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words. Pop was laughing and hugging with Lebron & Dwade while Tim was emotionally destroyed. Tim Duncan has the heart of a champion. I'm not sure if Pop and Manu still have it in them. Heck, even Danny Green looked more devastated than Pop and Manu.

[xmas1997]

Manu's not feeling that desire to win anymore. He is satisfied with his 3 rings. His "so-so" evaluation of himself tells it all. Just like Pop, he won't live up to his mistakes. Manu doesn't believe in himself anymore. He's content with having just reach Game 7. Tim on the other hand was devastated. Go google his pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words. Pop was laughing and hugging with Lebron & Dwade while Tim was emotionally destroyed. Tim Duncan has the heart of a champion. I'm not sure if Pop and Manu still have it in them.

Ok, big mouth, show me the LINK where Manu is satisfied with his 3 wins, and that he has no desire to win anymore.
I defy you to do it.
You can't, can you? All you can show me is his "so-so" statement which in no way can be deduced to mean the same thing.
LINK, please!

[TheGreatYacht]

Ok, big mouth, show me the LINK where Manu is satisfied with his 3 wins, and that he has no desire to win anymore.
I defy you to do it.
You can't, can you? All you can show me is his "so-so" statement which in no way can be deduced to mean the same thing.
LINK, please!mas o menos - more or less; roughly; approximately (lit.: more or less) http://www.languagerealm.com/spanish/spanishidioms_m.php He is supposed to say "I played bad. I let my team down" instead of "my performance was more or less."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080913185248AAd7WC9

[Tyrone Jenkins]

mas o menos - more or less; roughly; approximately (lit.: more or less) http://www.languagerealm.com/spanish/spanishidioms_m.php He is supposed to say "I played bad. I let my team down" instead of "my performance was more or less."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080913185248AAd7WC9

That sounds to me like a player being honest about his past performance.

Playing bad is one thing - not caring is something completely different.

[xmas1997]

mas o menos - more or less; roughly; approximately (lit.: more or less) http://www.languagerealm.com/spanish/spanishidioms_m.php He is supposed to say "I played bad. I let my team down" instead of "my performance was more or less."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080913185248AAd7WC9


More BS from you!
He never said he was satisfied with his 3 rings, or that he had no desire anymore.
Just BS from you. Your posts are ridiculous drivel and nothing more.

[TheGreatYacht]

More BS from you!
He never said he was satisfied with his 3 rings, or that he had no desire anymore.
Just BS from you. Your posts are ridiculous drivel and nothing more.His interviews said it all. He never truly believed that his team had a chance against the Heat. He was the most mentally weak player on the team, besides Matt Bonner, and paid the price by price with his performance in the NBA finals. Manu said it himself "I'm healthy, I feel fine." If he's physically fine then what is the problem?

[ElNono]

so if a player doesn't agree with TGY's performance rating, they don't have a desire to play anymore? :lol

Just say you made that shit up and stop spinning the BS, tbh...

[TheGreatYacht]

so if a player doesn't agree with TGY's performance rating, they don't have a desire to play anymore? :lol

Just say you made that shit up and stop spinning the BS, tbh...:lmao @ your failed attempt of translating "mas o menos" just to cover up the man you worship. Too bad I was banned when you wrote that thread because apparently everyone believed your shitty translation.

[ElNono]

:lmao @ your failed attempt of translating "mas o menos" just to cover up the man you worship. Too bad I was banned when you wrote that thread because apparently everyone believed your shitty translation.

I translated it as "so-so", so I don't know what "covering" you're talking about :lol

Add "not reading" to the plethora of reasons why you were banned :lmao

[hater]

"mas o menos"

:lmao

8 fucking turnovers in a clincher Finals game, 1 missed key FT, 3 Tos in game 6 overtime, 2 crucial TOs in game 7 4th quarter

:lmao fucking SHitnobili and his fandom are some delusional folks

[hater]

His interviews said it all. He never truly believed that his team had a chance against the Heat. He was the most mentally weak player on the team, besides Matt Bonner, and paid the price by price with his performance in the NBA finals. Manu said it himself "I'm healthy, I feel fine." If he's physically fine then what is the problem?

his problem is 99% mental. His mental basketball state is finished, done. been done for over 1 year. I been preaching this and being persecuted by the COM

Manu can never recover his mental state, he will be a liability for the Spurs when he is on the floor from now until the day he retires.

[ElNono]

his problem is 99% mental. His mental basketball state is finished, done. been done for over 1 year. I been preaching this and being persecuted by the COM

Manu can never recover his mental state, he will be a liability for the Spurs when he is on the floor from now until the day he retires.

sup hater, did you ask Evo for some spiritual guidance after that 2 year/$14m extension? :lol

[hater]

sup hater, did you ask Evo for some spiritual guidance after that 2 year/$14m extension? :lol

no guidance needed. I was not surprised by that ginormous waste of money at the hands of RC and Pop

it was strictly a business decision. Manu sells tickets in San ANtonio. Them fat mexicans need someone to look up to and Manu's brown ass achieves this.

of course until after game 1 of next season when Manu will be supplanted by Marco as fat favorite for good and Manu's contract will become the dumbest and biggest waste of money in the RC era :lol

[Tyrone Jenkins]

no guidance needed. I was not surprised by that ginormous waste of money at the hands of RC and Pop

it was strictly a business decision. Manu sells tickets in San ANtonio. Them fat mexicans need someone to look up to and Manu's brown ass achieves this.

of course until after game 1 of next season when Manu will be supplanted by Marco as fat favorite for good and Manu's contract will become the dumbest and biggest waste of money in the RC era :lol

Wow - a little extreme, no?

Manu is worth $7 a year. He is. People look at his Finals and playoff work and think he's a bum. Let's not forget what he did during the regular season...

[ElNono]

:lol you caught one

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

"mas o menos"

:lmao

8 fucking turnovers in a clincher Finals game, 1 missed key FT, 3 Tos in game 6 overtime, 2 crucial TOs in game 7 4th quarter

:lmao fucking SHitnobili and his fandom are some delusional folks

Coming from the guy that's avatar is Gary Neal LOL.

You're an idiot. NEAL WITH IT.

[therealtruth]

his problem is 99% mental. His mental basketball state is finished, done. been done for over 1 year. I been preaching this and being persecuted by the COM

Manu can never recover his mental state, he will be a liability for the Spurs when he is on the floor from now until the day he retires.

He can and he did in '11. It's Pop treating him like he's made of glass that has hurted him. It's taken away from his aggressiveness. He's just happy now passing the ball which takes away from his game.

[hater]

Wow - a little extreme, no?

Manu is worth $7 a year. He is. People look at his Finals and playoff work and think he's a bum. Let's not forget what he did during the regular season...

:lol

so let's decide how much money he deserves by forgetting what he did in the Finals and rememer the regular season :lol

[hater]

He can and he did in '11. It's Pop treating him like he's made of glass that has hurted him. It's taken away from his aggressiveness. He's just happy now passing the ball which takes away from his game.

truth. he seemed very happy passing the ball to the Heat players in game 6

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol

so let's decide how much money he deserves by forgetting what he did in the Finals and rememer the regular season :lol
truth. he seemed very happy passing the ball to the Heat players in game 6I don't understand why Spurs fans have the tendency to remember only the good things. All the bad stuff they flush away. SMH @ Manu apologists.

[therealtruth]

When I think of reasons we lost in the finals, backup SF wasn't one of them tbh

But lack of backup PG did hurt us. We need a backup floor general that can run the show and at least trade baskets with the other team.

[ElNono]

I don't understand why Spurs fans have the tendency to remember only the good things. All the bad stuff they flush away. SMH @ Manu apologists.

lol vet minimum

[ElNono]

But lack of backup PG did hurt us. We need a backup floor general that can run the show and at least trade baskets with the other team.

I'm not even sure I agree with that. I think we needed more shot creators, doesn't have to necessarily be a backup PG. Ideally you would want a backup PG to maximize Manu playing at SG, but it's not the only option.

I love the Belli signing, but I'm not sure he can be that kind of guy.

[Chinook]

I don't remember Green playing much SF in the playoffs, he made some nice plays on LBJ but he was playing out if his mind that series. I do remember Green filling in for Leonard at the beginning of the season and struggling horribly at SF.

Green looks far too small to be guarding SF's, he's great at defending small guards and PG's, but lacks the strength to guard bigger guys. Wade had his way with Green because he was too big, he'd bump him and Green would go flying.

Green played small-forward next to Leonard for a good chuck of the Golden State and Miami series. He also backed Leonard up at the three in the other two.

Green is almost the same height as Leonard (they're both listed at 6-7 in shoes, but Leonard is 6-7.25 and Green is 6-6.5). While Green doesn't have Leonard's wing span, he does have great length at 6-10+. He's also surprisingly strong, throwing up 15 reps at the combine (significantly more than most players, even bigs). Like Leonard, Green played as a big extensively in college.

He's certainly bigger than Wade, who's actually undersized for his position. That was pretty evident when the two had a jump ball during the Finals. Green's post defense against guards needs work, but he's solid against both threes and fours.

[KL2]

Green played small-forward next to Leonard for a good chuck of the Golden State and Miami series. He also backed Leonard up at the three in the other two.

Green is almost the same height as Leonard (they're both listed at 6-7 in shoes, but Leonard is 6-7.25 and Green is 6-6.5). While Green doesn't have Leonard's wing span, he does have great length at 6-10+. He's also surprisingly strong, throwing up 15 reps at the combine (significantly more than most players, even bigs). Like Leonard, Green played as a big extensively in college.

He's certainly bigger than Wade, who's actually undersized for his position. That was pretty evident when the two had a jump ball during the Finals. Green's post defense against guards needs work, but he's solid against both threes and fours.


Wade is huge, he's 220+ at 6'4, same with Leonard who is around 230+, Green is 210 and is really lean. That's why Wade/LBJ bullied him, whenever they put their body into him he went flying back, however if you watch Leonard he was like a brick wall holding his ground.

If you watched the Indiana series the main reason Wade struggled so much was because of his matchup with Stephenson, who's practically the same size if not bigger at 6'5 230. He was able to absorb the contact and hold his ground, unlike Green.

I can't quite remember the GS series but I do know Thompson was destroying Green, and Leonard was doing an okay job on Curry who was still scoring. As soon as Pop made the adjustment with Leonard on Thompson and Green on Curry they both proceeded to shut them down. Leonard is great at defending big physical guys while Green is great against guarding your average sized SG's, PG's/Combo guards. They compliment eachother perfectly on the court with eachother, I think moving Green to SF would be a huge mistake.

[KL2]

Btw, 10lbs doesn't seem like a lot but it is, especially since it's pure muscle. I'll never forget the time I gained 10lbs of fat within like 2 months moving up to 190, and was bullying guys on the court like nothing, my brother who weighed 240+ couldn't post me up whereas when I was 180 I was getting thrown around like a rag doll. I could only imagine what 10+lbs of muscle would do for me.

Im back down to 175 and that weight advantage is totally gone, I get pushed around like nothing lol.

[Chinook]

Wade is huge, he's 220+ at 6'4, same with Leonard who is around 230+, Green is 210 and is really lean. That's why Wade/LBJ bullied him, whenever they put their body into him he went flying back, however if you watch Leonard he was like a brick wall holding his ground.

If you watched the Indiana series the main reason Wade struggled so much was because of his matchup with Stephenson, who's practically the same size if not bigger at 6'5 230. He was able to absorb the contact and hold his ground, unlike Green.

I can't quite remember the GS series but I do know Thompson was destroying Green, and Leonard was doing an okay job on Curry who was still scoring. As soon as Pop made the adjustment with Leonard on Thompson and Green on Curry they both proceeded to shut them down. Leonard is great at defending big physical guys while Green is great against guarding your average sized SG's, PG's/Combo guards. They compliment eachother perfectly on the court with eachother, I think moving Green to SF would be a huge mistake.

Green didn't get destroyed by Thompson. He barely played on him. Green (and foul trouble) held him in check in Game 1 (and Leonard only did a good job on Curry in the overtime -- during regulation, Curry was destroying him). Game 2, Thompson went off, but Green was already in the process of switching off to Curry then. Parker and Ginobili couldn't guard Thompson at all. You're right that Leonard on Thompson and Green and Curry was ideal, but by no means was it necessary.

And Green didn't get bullied by James and Wade as much as it seems like he did. If Green had his feet set, he held his ground well against James in the post. Two times he was late getting to his spot, and James pushed Green back when he was off balance. People remember those plays, but they forget the three blocks Green had on James in the post. Meanwhile, in the latter games, James pretty much blew back everyone besides Diaw in the post. Leonard did a great job at denying James good position, but he was not nearly as great after the catch as people remember.

As I've said before, it's all about confirmation bias. People believe Green is too small to play the three, so they only remember his failures there. As the stats bear out, Green is more than passable as a three, especially when you account for the fact that only James and Anthony are going to really have a major girth advantage over him (and a post game to go along with it). Against 25-27 teams in the league, he'd be fine as the starting three, let alone the backup to Leonard.

But I totally agree that he shouldn't be moved to the bench to play that role. He's great where he is. I'm just saying that he'll do fine as Leonard's backup for five minutes or so during the playoffs.