Another legal way to kill someone in Florida: by running a red light

[InRareForm]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/red-light-crashes-are-often-accidents-not-crimes-law-says/2132355

[Creepn]

So basically, if you see someone you want killed, just time your route and hit the person as he crosses the street so long as you drive the car straight and consistent in speed. Just say it was an accident and cops can't disprove that.

Fucking Florida.

[Chomag]

Only in Florida...

Hate someone? Ask them to move to Florida with you.

[Chief Brody]

I'm pretty sure I Stallworth'd a nigga 2 weekend's ago but I didn't hear anything in the news the next day. I was driving through Liberty City, though.

[Rogue]

James Holmes wouldn't have faced any charges either if it happened in Florida. He just brought out a gun and started shooting around, and it was the fault of other people to sit and stand within the ballistics of his bullets, and to get wounded and killed somehow. Same goes for the Sandy Hook gunner as well, he could've said that he was just doing his shooting practice that he did everyday when he happened to find some students & teachers appearing in front his gun. Those guys would face no further charge but something like "illegal gun possession", under the floridan law

[boutons_deux]

How the Repugs fuck up a state when they gain control

Florida, the Cruelest State in the Union

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/6184531584_03cf28c421_b.jpg

In case you’ve been in a cave or on Mars, here’s the update: In response to the acquittal of George Zimmerman for the murder of Trayvon Martin, The Daily Show host John Oliver dubbed Florida “the worst state,” citing the state’s broken laws. As a Floridian for eight years, I say Oliver couldn’t be more right. Much attention has been paid to the state’s asinine Stand Your Ground law, which Oliver described as cut and pasted from 1880s Tombstone. That is just the start of it, however. Below is a small
snippet of some of the backwards laws or policies that have been passed, largely under uber-Conservative Governor Rick Scott.

Almost immediately upon taking office, Governor Scott passed a law requiring recipients of welfare benefits to pass a drug test. A federal court overturned the law, noting that the state had not proven that those receiving Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) were any more likely to use drugs than the general population. In fact, before the courts shut down this large-scale gathering of Floridian’s urine, only 108 people had negative tests. This was only 2.6% of the persons who were tested. The state had to pay more than $100,000 to persons who passed the pee tests. Clearly the program was not cost-effective.

Equally problematic is the fact that the law targeted the poor, not the many corporations like Wal-Mart or Kel Tec CNC, which manufactures the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin. Kel Tec CNC receives millions in tax incentives to locate in the state. This corporate welfare is widespread in Florida, a state that in 2012 had to cut $1.8 million for school safety initiatives and $5.7 million for mental health programs, a state that has the highest long-term unemployment and foreclosure rates in the nation.

Another Rick Scott loser is the law that has come to be known as “Docs v. Glocks.” This gem prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns in their homes. While clearly it is essential that gun owners store their weapons safely, the NRA-backed legislation would make asking this standard risk-assessment question a misdemeanor, subject to a $10,000 fine and even potentially the loss of medical licensure. A U.S. District Court ruled that the law was an unconstitutional restriction on doctor’s right to free speech.

In both cases, Governor Scott vowed to fight the court decisions, at taxpayer expense, of course. By August 2012, the governor reportedly had spent more than $880,000 to fight for Docs v. Glocks. He reportedly spent more than $190,000 to fight for the drug testing program. In December 2012, the Miami New Times reported that Scott had spent more than $1 million on lawsuits related to his controversial laws.

And, while Governor Scott was a Tea Party darling for his repeated pronouncements about “limited government,” it is clear that these two laws are anything but that. Instead, Scott seems to feel that it is all fine and dandy if the government gets into our bodily fluids or our medical consultations.

The list of Governor Scott-isms could go on and on. Suffice it to say that John Oliver has it right: “Just because you’re shaped like some combination of a gun and a dick doesn’t mean you have to act that way.” Indeed.

http://www.alternet.org/print/tea-party-and-right/florida-cruelest-state-union

Scott ran a criminal corporation in Georgia before carpet bagging down to Florida.

[Trill Clinton]

http://i.imgur.com/r0AYH.gif

[boutons_deux]

Meanwhile, Dirty Repug Tricks to screw union employees in Repug Michigan

Detroit bankruptcy on hold, Snyder admin. smacked down by judge for "cheating good people who work" (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/19/1225049/-Detroit-bankruptcy-on-hold-Snyder-admin-smacked-down-by-judge-for-cheating-good-people-who-work)

Yesterday afternoon, Detroit Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, with the blessing of Governor Rick Snyder, filed bankruptcy paperwork for the city at 4:06 p.m. An emergency hearing by attorneys representing city pensioners was scheduled for 4:00 p.m. in the court room of Ingham County Judge Rosemarie Aquilina. The attorneys were asked by the legal team for Governor Snyder and Kevyn Orr for a five-minute delay on the 4:00 p.m. meeting. In that time, the bankruptcy paperwork was filed, making the emergency hearing moot.

The State lawyers literally tricked the legal team representing people receiving pensions from the City of Detroit (http://www.freep.com/article/20130718/NEWS01/307180107/Detroit-bankruptcy-filing-Kevyn-Orr-emergency-manager) so that they could file their bankruptcy paperwork.


An attorney for the pension funds who was seeking a temporary restraining order in Ingham County to block the historic bankruptcy filing said he felt blindsided because he agreed to delay an emergency hearing by five minutes at the request of attorneys for Snyder.

During those five minutes, he said, attorneys filed the bankruptcy petition in Detroit, which generally results in a stay in all other pending lawsuits involving the city. Ingham County Judge Rosemarie Aquilina later issued a temporary restraining order preventing further actions to cut pension benefits, but said she would have issued one to stop the bankruptcy filing altogether, if given the chance.

The judge said the bankruptcy filing was made at 4:06 p.m., five minutes before her emergency hearing began.

A furious Ronald King, a lawyer representing Detroit’s General Retirement System and the Detroit Police and Fire Retirement System, said he agreed to the five-minute delay that he now believes was not requested in good faith.


The basis for the emergency hearing was a pending lawsuit claiming that the bankruptcy is illegal because public employee pensions are protected by the state constitution.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/19/1225049/-Detroit-bankruptcy-on-hold-Snyder-admin-smacked-down-by-judge-for-cheating-good-people-who-work?detail=email


So will the Detroit's creditors (1% capitalists) get more money than "guaranteed" pension claimants?

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao @ you Florida hating sheep. Those kinds of calls get made every day in every state usually on the same grounds...drinking? You are fucked...street racing?...you are fucked. Just a plain old accident? No charges.

That's why they call them accidents.

[boutons_deux]

running a red light, or a stop sign, isn't a accident. It's a violation, and it's reckless vehicular manslaughter

[boobie4three]

I'm sure they can all still be sued.

[CosmicCowboy]

running a red light, or a stop sign, isn't a accident. It's a violation, and it's reckless vehicular manslaughter

Without other contributing factors (drugs, alcohol, racing, etc.) It's treated as a traffic violation. Mistakes happen. Accidents happen. They don't file criminal charges. Big civil suits? Sure, but not criminal.

[InRareForm]

:lmao @ you Florida hating sheep. Those kinds of calls get made every day in every state usually on the same grounds...drinking? You are fucked...street racing?...you are fucked. Just a plain old accident? No charges.

That's why they call them accidents.

California you get charged criminally if something like this happens.

[CosmicCowboy]

California you get charged criminally if something like this happens.

You get charged criminally for running a red light?

[InRareForm]

If you hit someone and they get killed

[vy65]

You get charged criminally for running a red light?

You always get charged with a crime for running a red light. The difference is a) a class c misdemeanor for a traffic violation vs. b) a class b felony for manslaughter.

Like you said, if factors that contribute to the killing are present (drugs, alcohol, etc...) and we can confidently say that the violation was reckless, I don't think anyone has a problem with criminal charges. If, however, we're confident that the death resulted from a driver's negligence, then the required mental state for manslaughter (recklessness) isn't present, and no charges should be filed.

[InRareForm]

Well if you are rich and live in california you can get only 2 days in jail if you run a red light and kill someone... smh:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Christine-Padilla-Fatal-Santaluz-Nanny-Toddler-Crash-Sentencing-210632951.html

[boutons_deux]

Well if you are rich and live in california you can get only 2 days in jail if you run a red light and kill someone... smh:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Christine-Padilla-Fatal-Santaluz-Nanny-Toddler-Crash-Sentencing-210632951.html

Life is extremely cheap is American Civilization.

[boutons_deux]

"This is a caring, loving woman who didn’t see something in time. The young woman is devastated,”

not as devastated as her victims, and she's not held accountable. fucking lawyers, fucking judges, fucking lawyering.

but in FL, if you're black and fire a gun at nobody when threatened by a man, you get 20 years.

[CosmicCowboy]

"This is a caring, loving woman who didn’t see something in time. The young woman is devastated,”

not as devastated as her victims, and she's not held accountable. fucking lawyers, fucking judges, fucking lawyering.

but in FL, if you're black and fire a gun at nobody when threatened by a man, you get 20 years.





Boutons, she went out to the garage to her car.

At that point she had two choices

1) leave in the car
2) get the gun and go back inside and confront the guy and shoot at him.

2) was not a good choice.

We can argue the sentencing but not the guilt.

[Trill Clinton]

Boutons, she went out to the garage to her car.

At that point she had two choices

1) leave in the car
2) get the gun and go back inside and confront the guy and shoot at him.

2) was not a good choice.

We can argue the sentencing but not the guilt.

You obviously havent followed the details. Her own husband said she couldnt leave through the garage. Either way, 20 years is excessive for a woman in fear of an abusive husband.

[boutons_deux]

Boutons, she went out to the garage to her car.

At that point she had two choices

1) leave in the car
2) get the gun and go back inside and confront the guy and shoot at him.

2) was not a good choice.

We can argue the sentencing but not the guilt.

but vigilante murderer GZ can get out of his car and chase and shoot TM and you're OK with it.

[boutons_deux]

Boutons, she went out to the garage to her car.

At that point she had two choices

1) leave in the car
2) get the gun and go back inside and confront the guy and shoot at him.

2) was not a good choice.

We can argue the sentencing but not the guilt.

she was in HER CASTLE, she has the right to defend herself, in fucking Repug FL, because she BELIEVED herself to be in mortal danger.

[CosmicCowboy]

she was in HER CASTLE, she has the right to defend herself, in fucking Repug FL, because she BELIEVED herself to be in mortal danger.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

You really ought to get your information from places other than thinkprogress and alternet.

She went out to her car, got her gun, came back inside (instead of leaving safely...her life was not in danger since he didn't follow her to the garage) and shot at him.

[SnakeBoy]

she was in HER CASTLE, she has the right to defend herself, in fucking Repug FL, because she BELIEVED herself to be in mortal danger.

She left her castle then returned with a gun but you never let facts get in your way.

So the liberal agenda is now criminalize car accidents and legalize all drugs. Damn you liberals have gone off your rockers since the mexican shot the black guy.

[boutons_deux]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

You really ought to get your information from places other than thinkprogress and alternet.

She went out to her car, got her gun, came back inside (instead of leaving safely...her life was not in danger since he didn't follow her to the garage) and shot at him.

So her garage is not part of her "castle"? Would it have been OK with you, if she had the gun in furniture in the living room with the guy?

"I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was absolutely going to do," she said. "That's what he intended to do. Had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here."

Under FL law, she has NO OBLIGATION to flee, esp not in her own damn house.

[SnakeBoy]

Under FL law, she has NO OBLIGATION to flee, esp not in her own damn house.

Except she did flee...facts.

[Trill Clinton]

crazy how all the zimmerman supporters were all about the facts of that case, yet they can't get their facts straight when it comes to marissa alexander, sad.


In describing his abuse of another woman he said, “She just wouldn’t shut up.” So he hit her in the mouth. Asked about another woman he had a relationship with, Gray said, “She got hit in the mouth, same thing.”

As for the day of the shooting incident, he says when he saw the texts on Alexander’s phone he pushed his way into the bathroom to confront her. He said in the deposition: “I was mad, you know. I said, what the f—- is this, and you know, I told her that ... if I can’t have you nobody going to have you … She ain’t shit.”

Gray said that when she tried to leave the bathroom, “I met her where the sink was, and she wanted to get by me and I wouldn’t let her by and I was backing up slow but I was using my body to pretty much contain her in that one area where I want her to be at. [S]he got the bathroom door closed and she locked it, so I were beating on it. was there waiting for her to come out of the bathroom.”

“I was in a rage. I was in a rage, so I was saying a lot of things.” He said, “I beat on the door hard enough where it could have been broken open. [P]robably has some dents.” And: “I was mad, you know … I called her a whore and a bitch.”

“She was trying to get by and I was sitting there trying to make her talk to me. [T]he more she didn’t want to talk about it, the more I was not letting her by.” After she got out of the bathroom, “I was telling her, she ain’t going nowhere, she going to sit right here. [S]he was trying to get by … and I was telling her she not going nowhere.”

He was asked, “Did you ever tell her you knew people that would do your dirt?” Gray said, “Yeah. ain’t going to lie. I been in the streets … I know a lot of people …” Asked if the purpose of “saying something like that was to let her know if she didn’t do what you wanted her to do that you could have hurt her or something?,” he answered, “That’s correct.”

[I]He described her going to the garage, “but I knew that she couldn’t leave out the garage because the garage door was locked …” He reiterated, “I knew she couldn’t get out of the garage.”

[I]“She came back through the doors and she had a gun [from her car]. And she said, ‘You need to leave.’ I told her, I ain’t leaving until you talk to me … and I started walking towards her and she shot in the air.”

Remember, Corey claims that Alexander was not scared at this point. Really. She also claims that Rico Gray lied in this deposition to protect Alexander. Because misogynist monsters always implicate themselves in crimes to protect women.

It’s amazing that Rico Gray can admit in excruciating detail in a deposition to violent attacks on multiple women and be a free man, but when one of those women tries to defend herself, that’s just a bridge too far for Angela Corey.

[Th'Pusher]

Except she did flee...facts.

Goin out to her car and getting a gun is fleeing?

[SnakeBoy]

Goin out to her car and getting a gun is fleeing?

Yep, she was no longer in immediate danger not that she ever was. This isn't a stand your ground case just like the Zimmerman case wasn't.


We can argue the sentencing but not the guilt.

What's to argue?...


Corey reiterated that no shot was fired into the air, “and that if someone’s going to issue a press release they should at least get the facts straight.”

“We tried so hard to work this case out and give Marissa Alexander some benefit for the mitigation she claimed.”

She says Alexander was first offered three years.

Corey says the state attorney “has the discretion to deviate downwards” on cases that involve ten years, twenty years, or life in prison.

“In this particular case, after meeting with Rico Gray senior and his two sons and also meeting with Marissa Alexander, we were convinced that a three year minimum mandatory sentence would serve justice under these circumstances.

Alexander turned down the three-year offer.She was already serving jail time and did not want to serve more.

On a bond issued by the court judge, Alexander was ordered to have no contact with Rico Gray and his two sons. Three months later, she went over to where Rico Gray was living, got into an argument with him, hit him and gave him a black eye, Corey says. She then left the scene.

“She then lied to the police on the phone saying she had an alibi.”

When Alexander met with police, she admitted she went over to Gray’s residence but said that he had hit her.

Upon examination of both Gray and Alexander, evidence showed that “there were no injuries on her, but Rico had a black eye.”

3 year deal or face a 20yr mandatory sentence...that should've been a no brainer.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm no fan of Angela Corey or mandatory sentencing guidelines.

[boutons_deux]

"Yep, she was no longer in immediate danger"

her kids were still in the house, all she had to doe was "believe" herself and/or her kids to be mortal danger, she didn't know what the verbally threatening guy would do next, and she could use mortal force in self-defense.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

She should have just shot him dead then tbqh.

[SnakeBoy]

"Yep, she was no longer in immediate danger"

her kids were still in the house, all she had to doe was "believe" herself and/or her kids to be mortal danger, she didn't know what the verbally threatening guy would do next, and she could use mortal force in self-defense.




She shot in the direction of her husband AND kids, the kids were put in mortal danger because of her.

[boutons_deux]

yeah, obviously she was shooting at her kids. People who broil their kids to death in in hot cars don't get 20 years, or a 3 year plea.

===========

Seen from that perspective, Alexander didn’t suffer from the color of her skin (though, again, that may well have been a factor for the jury). Rather, her “mistake” was in the fact that she left an eyewitness (http://www.letstalkaboutit.info/2012/05/4-lies-distortions-and-inaccuracies_19.html) to testify against her. That gave the prosecution grist for challenging her claim to self-defense—and once she was convicted, it wouldn’t do her any good that she merely fired off a “warning shot.”

Meanwhile, if Zimmerman had shot at Trayvon Martin and missed—deliberately or not—he could be in jail right now, serving 20 years.

Florida’s gun possession laws (http://www.uslawshield.com/florida/florida-gun-law/)—more permissive than most—only serve to make the situation more explosive. The state allows for carrying your gun to work (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/09/us-usa-florida-guns-idUSN0948339420080409), stowing it inside your car, and taking it on public transportation. There’s no requirement for firearm registration, and gun owners are explicitly protected against discrimination. It’s like the government has set up a game of high-stakes poker, and then invited everyone to play.

Worse, the prosecution can use a rule like 10-20-Life to go all in (http://www.partypoker.com/how-to-play/new-to-the-game/tips-and-advice/going-all-in.html) on every hand. Even if a defendant thinks she’s innocent—or thinks she’s got a chance to walk on grounds of self-defense—she’ll be tempted to toss her hand and plead down to a lesser charge. The government offered Marissa Alexander a chance to go to jail for three years instead of 20, but she refused to fold. She thought she might escape conviction altogether, like Zimmerman. Instead, she busted out (http://www.playwinningpoker.com/poker/terms/bust.html). The jury deliberated for 12 minutes, just one-eightieth the time it took their counterparts last week. Alexander was found guilty of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. She’s due out in 2032.

This dangerous mix of laws is not unique to Florida. The combination of a robust right to self-defense and harsh penalties for violence done with firearms has been a focus of the National Rifle Association (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/wayne-lapierre-crime-strike-three-strikes) (though the gun rights group may now be shifting its priorities (http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2013/04/current-nra-president-vocally-supporting-liberal-conservative-mandatory-minimum-sentencing-reform-in.html)). The government should leave good, law-abiding gunmen to themselves, says the NRA, and throw the book at thugs and ruffians who abuse the law. That approach to justice has some horrid outcomes. It leaves defendants unusually exposed to racial bias, and can sometimes make an act of murder seem like the safest bet.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/07/florida_gun_laws_george_zimmerman_acquittal_shows_ danger_of_stand_your_ground.html

[Chief Brody]

^
Is this guy always like this?

[SnakeBoy]

yeah, obviously she was shooting at her kids. People who broil their kids to death in in hot cars don't get 20 years, or a 3 year plea.


Well if you want to argue against mandatory sentences then you would probably be hard pressed to find anyone on here who disagrees. Instead you want to claim racism and bitch about gun control.

[SnakeBoy]

^
Is this guy always like this?

No, he's usually much less rational.

[Woo Bum-kon]

One less Death Metal fan.