Realistically, what is Kawhi's ceiling?

[JayR523]

I love Kawhi and I think he will be a great player for years to come, but how good can he be? I think he can be a Shawn Marion type player with a better jumpshot.

[ginobilized]

Julius Erving meets Scottie Pippen ceiling

[Captivus]

An All Star that never gets selected for the All Star game.

[Chinook]

Al Horford of small-forwards.

[DapDaGenius]

20pts/20 rebounds/10 steals/2 assist average.

[Robz4000]

Al Horford of small-forwards.

Leonard is borderline Top 5 of the strongest position in the league currently (behind only Lebron, Durant, and Melo definitively) while Horford is maybe Top 10 of a middle-of-the-pack position. Not all that great of a comparison.

As for his ceiling, no real idea. If his success as of late isn't a product of the system, a perennial All-Star.

[CitizenDwayne]

Somewhere between Paul George and Scottie Pippen, though without the passing ability of either

[Chinook]

Leonard is borderline Top 5 of the strongest position in the league currently (behind only Lebron, Durant, and Melo definitively) while Horford is maybe Top 10 of a middle-of-the-pack position. Not all that great of a comparison.

As for his ceiling, no real idea. If his success as of late isn't a product of the system, a perennial All-Star.

He's at least sixth behind Paul George right now, and as soon as next draft happens, Leonard will be even farther back. I don't even think the consensus is that he's above SFs like Gay and Pierce, even though I personally think he'll be above them and Anthony next season.

Meanwhile, Horford is tremendously underrated. He's one of the best two-way bigs in the league. If he could find his way to the San Antonio in two years, I think the Spurs may be able to keep their championship window open for the first year or two after the Duncan era. That's no small compliment to Horford and by extension Leonard.

[Robz4000]

He's at least sixth behind Paul George right now, and as soon as next draft happens, Leonard will be even farther back. I don't even think the consensus is that he's above SFs like Gay and Pierce, even though I personally think he'll be above them and Anthony next season.

Meanwhile, Horford is tremendously underrated. He's one of the best two-way bigs in the league. If he could find his way to the San Antonio in two years, I think the Spurs may be able to keep their championship window open for the first year or two after the Duncan era. That's no small compliment to Horford and by extension Leonard.

I think there's a legitimate chance to place him above Paul too after next season. Leonard showed more in his second season than PG did.

As for Horford, I think he's underrated, but not by a lot. We'll see next season how good he is IMO. As of now, though, I have Duncan, Dirk, both Gasol's, Love, Noah, Bosh, H:lolward, KG, Aldridge, Lopez, Bynum (when healthy), Hibbert, and Chandler over him.

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Not quite Tim Duncan, but I think he has the ceiling to be the 2nd best Spurs player ever and even win an MVP award. Great athlete, tough, and already has a killer mindset with balls of steel. We got a real steal.

[Chinook]

I think there's a legitimate chance to place him above Paul too after next season. Leonard showed more in his second season than PG did.

As for Horford, I think he's underrated, but not by a lot. We'll see next season how good he is IMO. As of now, though, I have Duncan, Dirk, both Gasol's, Love, Noah, Bosh, H:lolward, KG, Aldridge, Lopez, Bynum (when healthy), Hibbert, and Chandler over him.

So you have him ranked 13th among all big men (essentially between 6 and 7 for either position), and think Leonard is about 5 or 6 in small-forwards. That's pretty much the same thing. And that's with you putting him above George for extremely dubious reasons and disregarding the other small-forwards who will be entering the league soon. I don't think the Horford comparison is too far off at all.

[spurraider21]

Pippen-esque

[Robz4000]

So you have him ranked 13th among all big men (essentially between 6 and 7 for either position), and think Leonard is about 5 or 6 in small-forwards. That's pretty much the same thing. And that's with you putting him above George for extremely dubious reasons and disregarding the other small-forwards who will be entering the league soon. I don't think the Horford comparison is too far off at all.

I'm talking about currently. Leonard may drop down a couple notches when Wiggins and Parker enter the league, but he could also surpass every 3 not named James, Durant, or Anthony. Mind you I'd take Leonard over Melo these days even with Melo being decidedly better at this time.

As for Horford, he's a 4 that plays the 5, so I considered all bigmen in the league. Going by players strictly at the 4, I'd take Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Love, KG, and Bosh over him now. The 4 also happens to not be as important as the 3 these days as well, so I took that into account. We can also look at some of the young big men currently in the game who are going to surpass Horford possibly by this upcoming season in Davis and Drummond. That would dump him down to Top 15.

This is also taking into account small-ball lineups which include three wings and only one big. Leonard is a near Top 5 3/small-ball 4 (in this case I put Harden and a 100% Wade ahead of Leonard) while Horford is ranked 14/15 for bigs. Now you could elevate Horford's overall importance due to the lack of skilled bigs in the league, and in that case the comparison makes more sense to me, but in terms of position Leonard is more like the Love of PFs (without the whining).

[Chinook]

I'd take Horford over Love, Aldridge, Garnett and probably Dirk nowadays. I consider him about top-five in power-forwards and top-10 in centers.

[TD 21]

I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.

James, Durant and Anthony, are obviously the clear cut three best SF's in the league. I still give Pierce the slight edge over both George and Leonard for fourth, but they'll probably surpass him next season.

Hard to pinpoint Leonard's exact ceiling. It's difficult to imagine him becoming a top ten player, but then, who thought Parker would become a top five one? Something like top 20, a handful of All-Star games, All-Defensive team selections, maybe a few third team All-NBA's and maybe even a spot on the 2016 or 2020 Olympic team (if NBA players are still in it), seems attainable.

[Robz4000]

I'd take Horford over Love, Aldridge, Garnett and probably Dirk nowadays. I consider him about top-five in power-forwards and top-10 in centers.

I can see the argument for Garnett and Aldridge, but Dirk is still pretty damn good and Love, when healthy, can kill you in many different ways too.

[Robz4000]

I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.

James, Durant and Anthony, are obviously the clear cut three best SF's in the league. I still give Pierce the slight edge over both George and Leonard for fourth, but they'll probably surpass him next season.

Hard to pinpoint Leonard's exact ceiling. It's difficult to imagine him becoming a top ten player, but then, who thought Parker would become a top five one? Something like top 20, a handful of All-Star games, All-Defensive team selections, maybe a few third team All-NBA's and maybe even a spot on the 2016 or 2020 Olympic team (if NBA players are still in it), seems attainable.

Unless the talent pool in the league picks up soon, I can see Leonard breaking the Top 10. Although next year's draft looks to be 2003-esque, with the impending retirement of the NBA's old guard (Duncan, Kobe, KG, Pierce, Dirk, Nash, maybe even Gasol and Wade) I think the overall level of skill in the NBA won't improve.

[Proxy]

A utility man that can be a major x-factor and provide multiple game plan options for an elite team. Third option on offense, second at best. More all-defense selections then all-star.

[Chinook]

I can see the argument for Garnett and Aldridge, but Dirk is still pretty damn good and Love, when healthy, can kill you in many different ways too.

I like that Horford is a two-way player who can play multiple positions. That's huge for teams like the Spurs and Heat which run flex systems. If he were on the 2015 purs, for example, he could start next to Splitter at the four and then slide over to the five with Leonard being the four and hold his own very well. Love can't do that. Dirk is really good (assuming he stays healthy), but I don't like his defense enough. I could see Dirk still being better, but I'd rather have Horford.

[Robz4000]

I like that Horford is a two-way player who can play multiple positions. That's huge for teams like the Spurs and Heat which run flex systems. If he were on the 2015 purs, for example, he could start next to Splitter at the four and then slide over to the five with Leonard being the four and hold his own very well. Love can't do that. Dirk is really good (assuming he stays healthy), but I don't like his defense enough. I could see Dirk still being better, but I'd rather have Horford.

I would take Horford over KG and Aldridge on the Spurs too because of how similar to Splitter he is (but better). However, when looking at them individually, I can make arguments for both being better. As for Love and Dirk, Love would compliment Splitter in the post-Duncan era greatly with his range and rebounding while keeping Leonard at the 3. I also think Love is mobile enough to play the 4 when other teams go small (this may change tho). Dirk would help the Spurs win now and if he were on the team over any other 4/5 option, I think the Spurs would win another championship easily (provided everyone remained healthy).

[SpurPadre]

I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.

Except for making free throws in a potential Championship clincher...but of course, I won't crucify the kid for that. He just can't fucking do that again in his career...EVER.

[Robz4000]

Except for making free throws in a potential Championship clincher...but of course, I won't crucify the kid for that. He just can't fucking do that again in his career...EVER.

He had been struggling with FTs all playoffs long. If you told me he'd of gone 1 of 2 in that situation, I'd of taken it tbh. Manu was the one who needed to seal the deal tbh. He was in the same damn situation earlier in the season in that Suns game and I figured he'd never let it happen again, albeit the stakes were much higher and it was a high-pressure situation.

[TD 21]

Except for making free throws in a potential Championship clincher...but of course, I won't crucify the kid for that. He just can't fucking do that again in his career...EVER.

That can happen to anyone. Unless it becomes a career long trend in those situations, I wouldn't read into it, especially considering that he scored the Spurs only two field goals in overtime, then was one of their two best players in game seven.

Robz, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'd say 15-20 is more likely. I can think of 18 off the top of my head who figure to be either roughly as good or clearly better for a good portion of his prime: Rose, Irving, Drummond, Curry, Harden, Howard, George, Griffin, Paul, James, Love, Lopez, Davis, Anthony, Durant, Westbrook, Valanciunas, Wall. Obviously, that's not counting '14 and beyond, plus a few young players already in the league, that I didn't list, that will inevitably vault into that class.

[SpurPadre]

He had been struggling with FTs all playoffs long. If you told me he'd of gone 1 of 2 in that situation, I'd of taken it tbh. Manu was the one who needed to seal the deal tbh. He was in the same damn situation earlier in the season in that Suns game and I figured he'd never let it happen again, albeit the stakes were much higher and it was a high-pressure situation.

He's a big boy and he's paid alot of money so making the only free throws that ever really mattered to get the biggest prize he can get in his profession of choice shouldn't be too much to ask. He had to make both and failed. I will agree that as the veteran and future HOF, it was worse for Manu to miss his free throw, especially since he's been a good FT shooter throughout his career...but we can't completely absolve Kawhi, either. With that said, I can't wait to see him take the next step next season.

[Robz4000]

That can happen to anyone. Unless it becomes a career long trend in those situations, I wouldn't read into it, especially considering that he scored the Spurs only two field goals in overtime, then was one of their two best players in game seven.

Robz, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'd say 15-20 is more likely. I can think of 18 off the top of my head who figure to be either roughly as good or clearly better for a good portion of his prime: Rose, Irving, Drummond, Curry, Harden, Howard, George, Griffin, Paul, James, Love, Lopez, Davis, Anthony, Durant, Westbrook, Valanciunas, Wall. Obviously, that's not counting '14 and beyond, plus whether a few young players already in the league that I didn't list vault into that class.

Out of those you listed I agree with the following:
Irving
Harden
Davis
Lebron
Durant
George (in terms of being about equal)

I wanna see what Rose and Westbrick look like next season before deciding on them, but Curry, Howard, Griffin, Love, Melo, Wall, Valanciunas, and Drummond are all either injury-prone like crazy, on the decline, or just not good enough to be an elite player even in the current NBA.

[SpurPadre]

[QUOTE=TD 21;6774570]That can happen to anyone. Unless it becomes a career long trend in those situations, I wouldn't read into it, especially considering that he scored the Spurs only two field goals in overtime, then was one of their two best players in game seven.[QUOTE]

Not more than once and definitely not to a future perennial All-Star. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Nick Anderson, who never recovered from missed FTs in the Finals but it remains to be seen how high his ceiling is. I'm definitely looking forward to him taking the next step, whatever and/or whenever that is but it better happen next season if we still want to be contenders.

[Robz4000]

He's a big boy and he's paid alot of money so making the only free throws that ever really mattered to get the biggest prize he can get in his profession of choice shouldn't be too much to ask. He had to make both and failed. I will agree that as the veteran and future HOF, it was worse for Manu to miss his free throw, especially since he's been a good FT shooter throughout his career...but we can't completely absolve Kawhi, either. With that said, I can't wait to see him take the next step next season.

I honestly thought we'd be fine with him making one. Also, compared to a lot of the other players out there at the time, he's being paid far under his worth. He also did a lot of the other things needed to win; missing a free throw doesn't change that.

[mingus]

I don't know if offensively he can ever be really good at anything other than offensive boards (which is already really good at) because his of his handles--not that he has Bruce Bowen handles or anything, but he just doesnt have the kind of command of the dribble you see in top flight SF's like Bron, Carmelo, George, Durant etc. Maybe he improves on that, he's still so young. That's the great thing about Kawhi--he might have the biggest question mark in terms of his ceiling than anybody in the league. He's just still so raw, but skilled at the same time.

Hard to predict his ceiling because of his rawness and because Pop kept him pretty much boxed into that 4-5 scoring option until game 7 of the Finals. I think his role will increase next year and I think we'll have a better handle of key factors that determine his ceiling as a result. Like, can he create for others off the dribble via the pass, can he negotiate his way through traffic using the dribble, is he comfortable in the pick n roll, can he change pace with his dribble etc etc. I think in a bigger role we will see if he has these abilities or at least the capacity for these abilities, which are in a lot of ways innate.


At minimum, he's a perennial all-defensive team player that compliments great offensive players well with his ability to hit the 3 at a nice respectable rate, clean up the offensive boards, and score off the dribble on occasion. Great jack of all trades player.

[Poolboy5623]

I think kawhi can be an all nba type player, but the spurs need to get him some actual looks...instead of Manu drunkenly dribbling the ball around.

[2centsworth]

Kawhi has special rebounding ability with unlimited defensive potential. If he can develop offensively, and at this point it's a big IF for me, he could be an MVP candidate. He's limited over offensively at this pt

[Robz4000]

Kawhi has special rebounding ability with unlimited defensive potential. If he can develop offensively, and at this point it's a big IF for me, he could be an MVP candidate. He's limited over offensively at this pt

You can teach offense tbh. Defense and rebounding are things more built-in to a player. Leonard's improvement on O in two seasons has been astounding.

[SpurPadre]

I honestly thought we'd be fine with him making one. Also, compared to a lot of the other players out there at the time, he's being paid far under his worth. He also did a lot of the other things needed to win; missing a free throw doesn't change that.

Yeah, but it doesn't mean he can't finish what he started and making that free throw would've meant finishing what he started. There's no way out of it. Oh well, that's my point and I'm sticking to it just as you're likely to stick with yours. But I'm sure we can agree the kid's got a potentially really bright future ahead of him.

[HemisfairArena]

This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.

[Kindergarten Cop]

This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.

If he shoots THAT well from the line, we'll never lose another game. Just force feed him in the post or coach him to take it to the hole Harden-esque style and we're good!

Realistically, KL is almost putting up those type of numbers NOW without having plays drawn up for him and not being the offensive focus for the Spurs. Once Duncan and Manu have retired, most would agree that he has much more potential than Elliott (although, as you stated, is no slouch). I haven't read any serious posts stating that he is "the 2nd coming of LeBron" - in fact, every one is in agreement that he is far behind the top 3 currently in the NBA.

[Robz4000]

This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.

Yeah, he just about is.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Roof, top 20 all time player
Likely, LeBron light

[apalisoc_9]

probably a top 10-15 player in the league. But who knows, he's 22 and has great work ethic.

Tony is a top 5 player in the league and no one thought he'd be in this position he is now.

[RD2191]

He needs to learn how to euro step.

[Rogue]

Kawhi is already playing close to his ceiling imho, he'll play smarter as his age & experience grow but I don't see any significant improvement being made in his game as an individual. Dude has good physique especially his wingspan which's very impressive for a SF, but skills aren't always the certain result of hard training. Sometimes it also takes some inborn talents in order for one to be a good dribbler and shooter imho, like I barely train myself in basketball but I can still hit almost every shot at the freethrow line without defense, or 60%+ shots from behind the 3pt line without defense. You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.

[anakha]

The best estimate of Kawhi's ceiling might be to look at how he performed in that Bulls game when the big guns were resting and see that level of activity (if not production) on a more consistent basis.

[spurraider21]

Kawhi is already playing close to his ceiling imho, he'll play smarter as his age & experience grow but I don't see any significant improvement being made in his game as an individual. Dude has good physique especially his wingspan which's very impressive for a SF, but skills aren't always the certain result of hard training. Sometimes it also takes some inborn talents in order for one to be a good dribbler and shooter imho, like I barely train myself in basketball but I can still hit almost every shot at the freethrow line without defense, or 60%+ shots from behind the 3pt line without defense. You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.

While its true everybody has limits (or else there would be new goats everywhere), its hard for me to acknowledge that Kawhi is already playing at his ceiling when it was only his second season and he hasn't even been featured in the offense yet.

[PlayNando]

Not quite Tim Duncan, but I think he has the ceiling to be the 2nd best Spurs player ever and even win an MVP award. Great athlete, tough, and already has a killer mindset with balls of steel. We got a real steal.
:lol

[spurraider21]

This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.

:lmao

your ceiling projections are 12 points 5 rebounds 80% FT and 45%FG...

do you know his averages this past season?

12 points, 6 rebounds, 83% free throws, 49%FG

so according to you, Kawhi in his sophomore season at age 21 has already hit, if not surpassed, his ceiling. your fake spurs fan shtick has grown old. i called you out from the beginning and you've done a poor job concealing yourself as nothing more than a troll posing here

[exstatic]

:lmao

your ceiling projections are 12 points 5 rebounds 80% FT and 45%FG...

do you know his averages this past season?

12 points, 6 rebounds, 83% free throws, 49%FG

so according to you, Kawhi in his sophomore season at age 21 has already hit, if not surpassed, his ceiling. your fake spurs fan shtick has grown old. i called you out from the beginning and you've done a poor job concealing yourself as nothing more than a troll posing here

Hemi's a troll. Don't bother.

[spurraider21]

you've done a poor job concealing yourself as nothing more than a troll posing here


Hemi's a troll. Don't bother.
:tu i'm on it boss

[TheGreatYacht]

A lot depends on how his knees hold out. He is believed to have jumper's knees. I don't think that goes away with time, especially for athletes so really depends on his knees being healthy.

If he has a healthy career, then I see a lot of Scottie Pippen potential on him. I've seen his draft workouts and practice clips and it looks like Kawhi can definitely dribble the ball, he just doesn't do it much since he's like the 4th option on the team.

I expect him to be the 3rd or 2nd option for the next two years until Duncan retires. Scottie Pippen was a point-forward so if Kawhi pans out, he can make an excellent sidekick to another superstar much like the way Pippen did with Jordan. Definitely a bad idea imo if the FO ever decides to make him the franchise player or number one option. Like I said, he can be a terrific second option.

[Poolboy5623]

A lot of you are doubting this guy's potential on offense. His form looks great. We know he has a 3 pt shot. He's shown he has a mid range game. He needs to get stronger and finish better under the basket. We've seen him take LeBron off the dribble, on more than one occasion, in a half court set. He finishes great on the break, with or without the ball. The spurs need to get him more involved. Period.

[spurraider21]

If he has a healthy career, then I see a lot of Scottie Pippen potential on him. I've seen his draft workouts and practice clips and it looks like Kawhi can definitely dribble the ball, he just doesn't do it much since he's like the 4th option on the team.

I expect him to be the 3rd or 2nd option for the next two years until Duncan retires. Scottie Pippen was a point-forward so if Kawhi pans out, he can make an excellent sidekick to another superstar much like the way Pippen did with Jordan. Definitely a bad idea imo if the FO ever decides to make him the franchise player or number one option. Like I said, he can be a terrific second option.

I agree. With time, if he continues his growth, he can become an elite second banana. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see him as a championship first banana unless you're on a balanced team like the 04 pistons or the 2011 Mavs, although Dirk did go god mode throughout the western conference playoffs.

but as far as the FO deciding to make him the franchise guy? its not entirely up to them. there's also the task of having a franchise player fall into your lap...

[Baseline]

Kawhi's ceiling is Prime Kirilenko.

[Aztecfan03]

While its true everybody has limits (or else there would be new goats everywhere), its hard for me to acknowledge that Kawhi is already playing at his ceiling when it was only his second season and he hasn't even been featured in the offense yet.

And he is only 22 now. He was 21 when we last saw him play(unless any of you have seen him play this month.)

[Gibbz]

Leonard is borderline Top 5 of the strongest position in the league currently (behind only Lebron, Durant, and Melo definitively) while Horford is maybe Top 10 of a middle-of-the-pack position. Not all that great of a comparison.

As for his ceiling, no real idea. If his success as of late isn't a product of the system, a perennial All-Star.

I love Kawhi, but your comment is borderline ridiculous. Saying he's currently far better than Horford is bananas.

However, I do feel that Kawhi has a higher ceiling than most people imply.

[Robz4000]

I love Kawhi, but your comment is borderline ridiculous. Saying he's currently far better than Horford is bananas.

However, I do feel that Kawhi has a higher ceiling than most people imply.

You completely missed the whole discussion and the point of my statement.

[Sean Cagney]

Kawhi is already playing close to his ceiling imho, he'll play smarter as his age & experience grow but I don't see any significant improvement being made in his game as an individual. Dude has good physique especially his wingspan which's very impressive for a SF, but skills aren't always the certain result of hard training. Sometimes it also takes some inborn talents in order for one to be a good dribbler and shooter imho, like I barely train myself in basketball but I can still hit almost every shot at the freethrow line without defense, or 60%+ shots from behind the 3pt line without defense. You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.
He is at the age now where most get drafted at a young 22 years old, to say he is close to his ceiling and can't learn alot more is just riduclous sir. He has alot to learn at this age and can get ALOT better. EITHER that he gets hurt or just gets lazy and stays the same or doesn't get any better, it could go either way.

[therealtruth]

No reason Kawhi can't become a first option like McGrady.

[ynh]

[QUOTE=TD 21;6774471]I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.
QUOTE]

What the hell do you think George did in the series against Miami? Seriously I was impressed by Leonard but wow you are searching really hard and making shit up (while completely ignoring what George has done) to try and sell yourself that he is better than he is.

Then someone on here (Robz) says that he is boarderline top 5 in a possition that is the strongest in the nba? SF is one of the weakest in the nba! Once you get past the big three (durant, Melo, Bron) youre left with Deng, George, or Pierce as the next three.. which is a pretty big drop off. Those six btw I would take over Leonard and I would take Gay... and going by potential I would take Harrison Barnes, Faried, and MKG... To me Leanord is in the Parsons, Batum, Gallinari, Young, Illiusavia group.

The guy is good.. you got a good player.. but come on!

I mean then another guy basically discredits George for being the main option and credits Leonard for what he does as a third/forth option and thinks the averages and percentages would be the same if he was the first option like George.. I mean wow!

Then some say Pippen like? Have none of you seen Pippen when he was in his prime or something? The only two players I have seen that were Pippen like where T-mac and before he was injured Grant Hill. Do you think Leonard is going to be either one of those???

The guy will be a good nba player.. not a superstar and probably not a star. A damn good player. You don't have to make him into something more than he is and something he isn't to try and say he is a good player.. he is!!

[kobexxx]

al harringtonesque

[spurraider21]

I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.

What the hell do you think George did in the series against Miami? Seriously I was impressed by Leonard but wow you are searching really hard and making shit up (while completely ignoring what George has done) to try and sell yourself that he is better than he is.

Then someone on here (Robz) says that he is boarderline top 5 in a possition that is the strongest in the nba? SF is one of the weakest in the nba! Once you get past the big three (durant, Melo, Bron) youre left with Deng, George, or Pierce as the next three.. which is a pretty big drop off. Those six btw I would take over Leonard and I would take Gay... and going by potential I would take Harrison Barnes, Faried, and MKG... To me Leanord is in the Parsons, Batum, Gallinari, Young, Illiusavia group.

The guy is good.. you got a good player.. but come on!

I mean then another guy basically discredits George for being the main option and credits Leonard for what he does as a third/forth option and thinks the averages and percentages would be the same if he was the first option like George.. I mean wow!

Then some say Pippen like? Have none of you seen Pippen when he was in his prime or something? The only two players I have seen that were Pippen like where T-mac and before he was injured Grant Hill. Do you think Leonard is going to be either one of those???

The guy will be a good nba player.. not a superstar and probably not a star. A damn good player. You don't have to make him into something more than he is and something he isn't to try and say he is a good player.. he is!!
Ok. We saw what Kawhi did against deng and the bulls though. You also called faried a small forward, which is weird. Kawhi is light years ahead of ilyasova. Did you not watch the playoffs and finals?

[ynh]

Lets see.. Espn lists him as SF.. Hollinger lists him as SF...

Have you completely ignored Deng the past few years? Or are you just going to say how one did against the other 2 games a year to base that as comparision?

[Gagnrath]

[QUOTE=TD 21;6774471]I'm a big George fan and because he carried a level of offensive responsibility this past season that Leonard has yet to, while playing far more minutes and still doing the things Leonard does best at roughly the same level or better in some cases, I'd give him the edge for now . . . but long term, I'd lean towards Leonard, because he's shown, unequivocally, that the higher the stakes get, the better he does.
QUOTE]

What the hell do you think George did in the series against Miami? Seriously I was impressed by Leonard but wow you are searching really hard and making shit up (while completely ignoring what George has done) to try and sell yourself that he is better than he is.

Then someone on here (Robz) says that he is boarderline top 5 in a possition that is the strongest in the nba? SF is one of the weakest in the nba! Once you get past the big three (durant, Melo, Bron) youre left with Deng, George, or Pierce as the next three.. which is a pretty big drop off. Those six btw I would take over Leonard and I would take Gay... and going by potential I would take Harrison Barnes, Faried, and MKG... To me Leanord is in the Parsons, Batum, Gallinari, Young, Illiusavia group.

The guy is good.. you got a good player.. but come on!

I mean then another guy basically discredits George for being the main option and credits Leonard for what he does as a third/forth option and thinks the averages and percentages would be the same if he was the first option like George.. I mean wow!

Then some say Pippen like? Have none of you seen Pippen when he was in his prime or something? The only two players I have seen that were Pippen like where T-mac and before he was injured Grant Hill. Do you think Leonard is going to be either one of those???

The guy will be a good nba player.. not a superstar and probably not a star. A damn good player. You don't have to make him into something more than he is and something he isn't to try and say he is a good player.. he is!!


I'm putting George Right with Melo, Bron and Durrant, I'd actually probably put him ahead of melo in picking a team because he plays defense and isn't as ball dominating. Pierce is done being a star and carrying a team, he'll be a serviceable starter for about 2 or 3 more years and not much more than that. As a pistons fan you see way more of Deng than we do. Deng is more polished right now but I don't see him getting any better, and he from our perspective puts up only marginally better offensive numbers with not as effective defense and more plays called for him.

[ynh]

Pierce is still clutch as hell! If we are talking right now who is better all you have to do is answer this question.. do you win the championship last year if you had Pierce instead of Leonard? I think that's pretty hard to say no to.

Agreed with George. I'm actually as much a Pacers fan (lived there for the past 10 years). The guy is everything Melo should of been if he was a winner.

[ynh]

I will take back Illyasova.. for one reason and that's because the guy is one of the worst defenders in the league. Honestly Thadeaus Young is who I would say is a pretty damn good even comparision for Leonard. He may turn into a better player but right now they are extremely comparable.

[Holden_Caulfield]

the tim duncan of sf

[MR-Clutch]

the tim duncan of sf
I like that and I've said this before too. Sometimes u look at kawhi's box score, and its like wtf? When did he put those stats up?

[playblair]

http://distilleryimage9.ak.instagram.com/f43f8110f30811e28f4222000a1fb75e_7.jpg

[SpursDynasty21]

Leonard has the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA, and the Spurs have a great player to build around for the future.

[HemisfairArena]

the tim duncan of sf


The Tim Duncan of SF's is a guy named LeBron James.

[ynh]

I like that and I've said this before too. Sometimes u look at kawhi's box score, and its like wtf? When did he put those stats up?

I know! It's like you watch the whole game and and afterwards you're like shit when did he put up 12 and 6!!

[ynh]

The Tim Duncan of SF's is a guy named LeBron James.

Clearly you haven't watched. He's the Tim Duncan of 12 and 6 players.

[HemisfairArena]

Leonard has the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA, and the Spurs have a great player to build around for the future.

Wow...I'm as biased as the next guy when it comes to Spurs players but what do you guys see that leads you to believe Leonard is gonna be the great player that will be one of the best in the NBA? I think he'll be good...very good...like I said Sean Elliott good. Remember Elliott was a 2 time All Star and NBA Champ and at the pinnacle of his career was averaging 20 points/gm....but he was never one oif the best players in the NBA. Leonard will be like Elliott...great for our Spurs but he's not gonna be a top 5 player in the NBA. To many better players out there.

[HemisfairArena]

:lmao

your ceiling projections are 12 points 5 rebounds 80% FT and 45%FG...

do you know his averages this past season?

12 points, 6 rebounds, 83% free throws, 49%FG

so according to you, Kawhi in his sophomore season at age 21 has already hit, if not surpassed, his ceiling. your fake spurs fan shtick has grown old. i called you out from the beginning and you've done a poor job concealing yourself as nothing more than a troll posing here

Hmmm....the projection was his career average when he is done. Like Elliott put up 15 and 5 for his career on 47% shooting. Elliotts scoring pinnacle was 20 points/gm in '95. He was a 2 time All Star and an NBA Champ. Do you think Leonard will surpass Elliott? And why do people use the little rolling on the floor guy like it will help get their point across?

[spurraider21]

Hmmm....the projection was his career average when he is done. Like Elliott put up 15 and 5 for his career on 47% shooting. Elliotts scoring pinnacle was 20 points/gm in '95. He was a 2 time All Star and an NBA Champ. Do you think Leonard will surpass Elliott? And why do people use the little rolling on the floor guy like it will help get their point across?

career average =/= ceiling. and quit trying to back urself out of a hole. just admit your ceiling projections were alarmingly low, considering he has already bettered those numbers. and the little guy on the floor is there to tell you that not only are you wrong, but you are so wrong that it is in fact comical

[HemisfairArena]

career average =/= ceiling. and quit trying to back urself out of a hole. just admit your ceiling projections were alarmingly low, considering he has already bettered those numbers. and the little guy on the floor is there to tell you that not only are you wrong, but you are so wrong that it is in fact comical


My projections are right on target. Elliott will have a better career than Leonard when all is said and done. Overrate Leonard all you want. He's a good player but he wont be better than Elliott.

[spurraider21]

My projections are right on target. Elliott will have a better career than Leonard when all is said and done. Overrate Leonard all you want. He's a good player but he wont be better than Elliott.

nowhere here did i mention elliott. we asked about leonard's ceiling, and you said 12 ppg, 5 rpg, 45% fg, 80% ft. he has already surpassed those numbers. he hasn't reached his ceiling yet and has already surpassed your ceiling projections. just say you were wrong and we can carry on

[HemisfairArena]

Where do guys like spursraider come from? Elliott in his 2nd year averaged 16 and 6. Leonard in his 2nd year averaged 12 and 6....but he says Leonard has averaged more than Elliott at this point in their careers.

[HemisfairArena]

nowhere hear did i mention elliott. we asked about leonard's ceiling, and you said 12 ppg, 5 rpg, 45% fg, 80% ft. he has already surpassed those numbers. he hasn't reached his ceiling yet and has already surpassed your ceiling projections. just say you were wrong and we can carry on


You obviously need reading comprehension. My projection was for his overall career....if you dont get it...I dont have all night to help you out.

[spurraider21]

Where do guys like spursraider come from? Elliott in his 2nd year averaged 16 and 6. Leonard in his 2nd year averaged 12 and 6....but he says Leonard has averaged more than Elliott at this point in their careers.

i never said this. i never onced mentioned Sean Elliott in regards to Kawhi so enough with your erroneous crap


You obviously need reading comprehension. My projection was for his overall career....if you dont get it...I dont have all night to help you out.


He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling.

...enough said. ceiling =/= career average. shove your reading comprehension where the sun don't shine

[TheGreatYacht]

Where do guys like spursraider come from? Elliott in his 2nd year averaged 16 and 6. Leonard in his 2nd year averaged 12 and 6....but he says Leonard has averaged more than Elliott at this point in their careers.tbh, it is not Kawhi's fault that he's the 4th option on the team. Manu is pretty much done so I expect Kawhi to be the 3rd or 2nd option for the next two years until Duncan retires unless Pop continues to trust Manu as the 3rd option which wouldn't surprise me at all given the stubborn man that he's become. Next year will indicative of how good Kawhi will be assuming that Pop replaces Kawhi with Manu as the newest member of the "Big 3."

[Chinook]

So to sum up, we have majority=plurality and peak=average. Glorious.

[Kingsly Alexander]

I honestly don't think the Shawn Marion comparison isn't too far off at this point and time, but unlike Marion he has the advantage of playing under the tutelage of our staff and players.

He definitely needs to get better with his handles and creating his own shot. If he can successfully do improve on that area of his game there's nothing he won't be able to do on the court.

what was that quote of pop's? Something like he's a baby barely learning to walk or something or another.

my only legit concern is that this focus on him now after a good post season doesn't toy with his confidence and hamper his progression. He doesn't strike me as someone who savers the mantle of being labeled the guy who's going to lead the most successful franchise of the past 15 yrs to continued glory, post Duncan

[HemisfairArena]

i never said this. i never onced mentioned Sean Elliott in regards to Kawhi so enough with your erroneous crap






...enough said. ceiling =/= career average. shove your reading comprehension where the sun don't shine



To play devil's advocate....Leonard still hasnt averaged 12-14 points/gm...youre just assuming he does. You hope he gets better. I said that would be his career average and you wanted to get techinical so techinally he hasnt averaged 12-14 yet. And whats up with your fixation about shoving things where the sun doesnt shine?

[spurraider21]

To play devil's advocate....Leonard still hasnt averaged 12-14 points/gm...youre just assuming he does. You hope he gets better. I said that would be his career average and you wanted to get techinical so techinally he hasnt averaged 12-14 yet. And whats up with your fixation about shoving things where the sun doesnt shine?

if you are going to cal Elliott's 5.6 rebounds and 6 then i will call Kawhi's 11.9 as 12

[HemisfairArena]

if you are going to cal Elliott's 5.6 rebounds and 6 then i will call Kawhi's 11.9 as 12


I already called Leonards 11.9...12 earlier...check my post.

[spurraider21]

I already called Leonards 11.9...12 earlier...check my post.

and 12 doesn't qualify as 12-14? i have no clue where you're going with this

Look you can either say "ok I guess I undershot his projected ceiling" or you can try to convince me that Leonard has already peaked. go.

[jestersmash]

His ceiling is Andre Iguodala, IMO.

[anakha]

nobody has a clue where you're going with this

[Kindergarten Cop]

So to sum up, we have majority=plurality and peak=average. Glorious.

:lol

[tomtom]

18ppg 8rpg 2stlpg 2blpg 2apg

[look_at_g_shred]

20/10 guy easily.

[xmas1997]

Have to change it from the Big3 to the Big4.

[TheGoldStandard]

Really believe he'll be the next face of this franchise.. He's a workhorse kind of guy, will put in the time to get the stats and numbers but quietly.

[CitizenDwayne]

His ceiling is Andre Iguodala, IMO.

Pretty good comparison, though I think Leonard is already on his way to being a more consistent scorer than this guy.

[hater]

Bump

[100%duncan]

Really believe he'll be the next face of this franchise.. He's a workhorse kind of guy, will put in the time to get the stats and numbers but quietly.

:tu

[raybies]

Interesting...

[HarlemHeat37]

probably a top 10-15 player in the league. But who knows, he's 22 and has great work ethic.

Tony is a top 5 player in the league and no one thought he'd be in this position he is now.

And there are idiots here that think you hate Parker:lol..

[apalisoc_9]

And there are idiots here that think you hate Parker:lol..

:lol

I remeber making a rant thread when tony missed out on first team a few years ago because of kirby. :lol

[tholdren]

Kl would be great of he had better shot selection and could take over the game in the clutch. He's got that lebron thing where he's afraid to drive in the 4th and takes jumpers. Be like tim, be boring, predictable and methodical.

[Chinook]

I certainly don't mind saying that Kawhi has blown past my expectations. That he is one of the best three-point shooters in the league is insane. We could find out he grew four inches during next summer, and I wouldn't be all that surprised.

[look_at_g_shred]

20/10 guy easily.
...

[100%duncan]

Not quite Tim Duncan, but I think he has the ceiling to be the 2nd best Spurs player ever and even win an MVP award. Great athlete, tough, and already has a killer mindset with balls of steel. We got a real steal.

:wow

[100%duncan]

This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.
:lmao HEMI

[Leetonidas]

so many awful takes in this thread :lol

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I thought his ceiling was 2013 Kawhi, and I thought he'd take 4 more years to reach it.
Shrug

[apalisoc_9]

:lmao HEMI

That dude is a legit retard

[spurraider21]

:lmao HEMI
i called him out on that take for like 1-2 pages in a row :lol

[100%duncan]

i called him out on that take for like 1-2 pages in a row :lol

fraps fam

[Spurtacular]

Realistically, what is Ray's floor?

Six feet under?

[dabom]

Realistically, what is Ray's floor?

Six feet under?

At best a Tony lite replacement.

At worst an NBA bench warmer.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Realistically, what is Ray's floor?

Six feet under?

3rd string NBA point guard.

About what Jimmer's ceiling is.

[100%duncan]

3rd string NBA point guard.

About what Jimmer's ceiling is.

Damnnnnn

[Spurtacular]

3rd string NBA point guard.

About what Jimmer's ceiling is.

Higher than that, tbh.

[spursistan]

You've got to be really something special (in the making) that, at age 21, and after the mind-numbing and soul-crushing event that GAME 6 was, you come out for a fucking game 7 of NBA Finals and put up a 19pts/16rebs..That was the clincher for me as far as Kawhi sky-limit ceiling..

This already amazing Leonard still got that second outrageous leap in him..He will go as far as his ball-handling skills improvement go..That's the area where other non-big go-to stars in the league are quite ahead of him..

[Spurs 4 The Win]

An All Star that never gets selected for the All Star game.


Al Horford of small-forwards.


A utility man that can be a major x-factor and provide multiple game plan options for an elite team. Third option on offense, second at best. More all-defense selections then all-star.


This must be a joke. Posters think he'll be the 2nd best Spurs player of All Time? LMAO He's Scottie Pippen? He's in the top 5 of SF's in the league? LMAO....let me tell you what this guys ceiling is...he is the next Sean Elliott. He'll give you 12-14 points/gm...5-6 rebs.....shoot 800% from the free throw line and hover around 45-47% from the field. There's your ceiling. Sean Elliott was no slouth so its not like its a bad thing but lets not act like Kwahi Leonard is the 2nd coming of LeBron.


A lot depends on how his knees hold out. He is believed to have jumper's knees. I don't think that goes away with time, especially for athletes so really depends on his knees being healthy.

If he has a healthy career, then I see a lot of Scottie Pippen potential on him. I've seen his draft workouts and practice clips and it looks like Kawhi can definitely dribble the ball, he just doesn't do it much since he's like the 4th option on the team.

I expect him to be the 3rd or 2nd option for the next two years until Duncan retires. Scottie Pippen was a point-forward so if Kawhi pans out, he can make an excellent sidekick to another superstar much like the way Pippen did with Jordan. Definitely a bad idea imo if the FO ever decides to make him the franchise player or number one option. Like I said, he can be a terrific second option.


Kawhi's ceiling is Prime Kirilenko.


al harringtonesque


My projections are right on target. Elliott will have a better career than Leonard when all is said and done. Overrate Leonard all you want. He's a good player but he wont be better than Elliott.


His ceiling is Andre Iguodala, IMO.

L:lolL FAGG:lolTS L:lolL

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[dabom]

:lol

[Chinook]

L:lolL FAGG:lolTS L:lolL

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

I feel like such an asshole for thinking he'd only be top-five. Go suck a dick, scro.

[TheDoctor]

Spurs 4 the Win going hard w/o the http://www.filtreaoleje.sk/upload/0000025992-valvoline-logo.png tbh

[TheGreatYacht]

What are you quoting me, faggot?

He hasn't even surpassed Shawn Marion yet

[Spurs 4 The Win]

What are you quoting me, faggot?

He hasn't even surpassed Shawn Marion yet

This is why: "Definitely a bad idea imo if the FO ever decides to make him the franchise player or number one option. Like I said, he can be a terrific second option."

LOL:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

LOL:lol
Still hasn't led the team in scoring past the first round :lol

October fans :lmao

[TheDoctor]

Not quite Tim Duncan, but I think he has the ceiling to be the 2nd best Spurs player ever and even win an MVP award. Great athlete, tough, and already has a killer mindset with balls of steel. We got a real steal.

Damn, this was some Nostradamus shit :hat

[Joseph Kony]

probably a top 10-15 player in the league. But who knows, he's 22 and has great work ethic.

Tony is a top 5 player in the league and no one thought he'd be in this position he is now.
:wow

[TheGreatYacht]

^ WOW :wow

[NameLess Scrub]

I don't blame anyone who thought Kawhi wasn't a franchise player.
I kinda question the people who said he was going to be.. did they know something?

This rubbing needs to stop. Kawhi's development is a legit and welcomed surprise.

I guess it's just entertaining..

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I don't blame anyone who thought Kawhi wasn't a franchise player.
I kinda question the people who said he was going to be.. did they know something?

This rubbing needs to stop. Kawhi's development is a legit and welcomed surprise.

I guess it's just entertaining..

To me it was obvious based off of his progression and potential. You saw flashes of it early on tbh.

[PublicOption]

Our family used to do custom tile work. We did Chuck Person's house and his ceiling was about 2 feet taller than avg. in all the rooms.

[Captivus]

WOW....I said he was an All Star that was never going to be selected as one...
OMG!!
Im not gonna be able to sleep now!!!

[rastaspur]

Honestly, i dont know if he has a ceiling. If his improvement continues like it has then he is going to shatter any ceiling we as fans have set for him. But if you have to label it, an all time great and maybe goat.

[NameLess Scrub]

To me it was obvious based off of his progression and potential. You saw flashes of it early on tbh.

Got it.

I'm just glad he has that ridiculous ability to improve almost at will.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Got it.

I'm just glad he has that ridiculous ability to improve almost at will.

I said his roof was a top 20 all time player. He is gonna need to win some MVPs, but the dude is young, its scary, he has so many years to improve even more.

[BillMc]

Our family used to do custom tile work. We did Chuck Person's house and his ceiling was about 2 feet taller than avg. in all the rooms.Cool. That's interesting.

[BillMc]

Kind of looking like Scottie Pippen.... Who knows the ceiling.

[dabom]

Kind of looking like Scottie Pippen.... Who knows the ceiling.

Pippen was never a go to guy. :lol

[BillMc]

Pippen was never a go to guy. :lol

This is true. (Except for the year and a half MJ retired). Kawhi could surpass him, but Pippen was voted Top 50 all time in 97. So are we saying Kawhi is already Top 50 all time? :lol (or Top 65 adjusted for the 20 years since).

Pippen, though, is the most natural comparison I can think of with the defense, the ability to guard so many positions from the wing, and now the offensive skills.

The best compliment I can give Kawhi is he may become a self-defining person. In other words, there's no easy comparison with another current or historical player. Kawhi is unique. Closest current player is maybe Paul George.

[bic50]

I can see why some didn't have such a high ceiling for kawhi. But you really can't doubt someone with such a crazy work ethic.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

This is true. (Except for the year and a half MJ retired). Kawhi could surpass him, but Pippen was voted Top 50 all time in 97. So are we saying Kawhi is already Top 50 all time? :lol (or Top 65 adjusted for the 20 years since).

Pippen, though, is the most natural comparison I can think of with the defense, the ability to guard so many positions from the wing, and now the offensive skills.

The best compliment I can give Kawhi is he may become a self-defining person. In other words, there's no easy comparison with another current or historical player. Kawhi is unique. Closest current player is maybe Paul George.

Paul george is Kawhi's bitch.

[Robz4000]

Just gonna go ahead and revise my opinion: Kawhi can be the greatest player of all time. Better to be safe than sorry.

[NameLess Scrub]

Just gonna go ahead and revise my opinion: Kawhi can be the greatest player of all time. Better to be safe than sorry.

:lol

[Pako]

He can be one of the all time greats but will be overshadowed by other players because he does not show much emotions.

[BillMc]

He can be one of the all time greats but will be overshadowed by other players because he does not show much emotions.

Could be applied to TD, and, in a way, even Kareem.

[NameLess Scrub]

I said his roof was a top 20 all time player. He is gonna need to win some MVPs, but the dude is young, its scary, he has so many years to improve even more.

:toast

[tholdren]

IF KL can keep mixing up getting to the line with consistency in his pull-up he would be the best scorer in the game. Defensively, he's a top player. He has to show he can do it in the playoffs. He's awesome for sure.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Beta. And that's okay. We shouldn't have expected too much.

[YGWHI]

Beta. And that's okay. We shouldn't have expected too much.
All this trolling...:lmao

If you think this team has another Alpha not named Kawhi, you're so wrong.

[PopTheGOAT]

Beta. And that's okay. We shouldn't have expected too much.
I don't believe in telling people to kill themselves nor do I condone it, but you're pushing me.

[bic50]

Beta. And that's okay. We shouldn't have expected too much.
Fraud

[DarrinS]

Beta. And that's okay. We shouldn't have expected too much.

^:lol

[Arcadian]

It was hard to predict his ceiling because his role with the team in 2011-13 was mostly a defensive specialist and X-factor around the old big 3...but I always thought he had the potential to be elite at his position.

The one thing I would NEVER have predicted was that he would become an elite 3-point shooter...people used to say his hands were too big to shoot precisely. :lol

[Proxy]

gladly eat crow

[spursistan]

First, i wish for the guy to stay healthy..but holy shit, he hasn't even reached his peak yet :lol

[timtonymanu]

Al Horford of small-forwards.

:lol

[Chinook]

:lol

To be fair, Horford was a top-10 big back then. But Ive sworn not to put a cap on Kawhi's ceiling for a couple of years now. Dude's pretty much Skynet in human form.

[timtonymanu]

To be fair, Horford was a top-10 big back then. But Ive sworn not to put a cap on Kawhi's ceiling for a couple of years now. Dude's pretty much Skynet in human form.

I hyped him up too though back then. It's just funny cause people here shit on him now.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kawhi is far better than any non-homer expected, tbh..I don't remember who it was, but somebody on an NBA broadcast a few days ago said that he's the most improved player they have ever seen in their history covering the league..

I haven't been watching the NBA for that long(less than 20), but I can't recall an example of a player who managed to improve literally every single flaw that he had when he entered the NBA..weak ball-handling has become a strength for his position, poor passing ability has become above average and continuing to improve, questionable shot in college immediately transformed into 40% 3-point shooting in the pros, etc..crazy..

[TheDoctor]

The roof?

[cutewizard]

In the conversation with Bird, James and Erving as the best small forwards of all time....................?!

:claw

(Might be the best two-way small forward of all time.......arguably.)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

To be fair, Horford was a top-10 big back then. But Ive sworn not to put a cap on Kawhi's ceiling for a couple of years now. Dude's pretty much Skynet in human form.

To be fair, in July of 2013 Horford had been the go to guy on a Hawks team that was struggling to get an 8 seed in the weak East and first round fodder at best year after year. Your ceiling was a very modest ppg increase. Might as well have called him Al Jefferson like that other guy did.

Kawhi had just emerged as a legitimate offensive option deep in the playoffs and his shooting and ball handling had taken a significant leap forward.

[spursistan]

838972096722137088

[midnightpulp]

Kawhi is far better than any non-homer expected, tbh..I don't remember who it was, but somebody on an NBA broadcast a few days ago said that he's the most improved player they have ever seen in their history covering the league..

I haven't been watching the NBA for that long(less than 20), but I can't recall an example of a player who managed to improve literally every single flaw that he had when he entered the NBA..weak ball-handling has become a strength for his position, poor passing ability has become above average and continuing to improve, questionable shot in college immediately transformed into 40% 3-point shooting in the pros, etc..crazy..

It's unprecedented.

And he alone has made me rethink the idea of "natural talent" as a limiting factor in player improvement. Of course, any pro athlete needs to have some degree of natural talent, but Kawhi was rather unremarkable in all areas, from skillset to athleticism, compared to other perimeter players. Only his length really stood out.

[cutewizard]

838972096722137088


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:claw

[cutewizard]

It's unprecedented.

And he alone has made me rethink the idea of "natural talent" as a limiting factor in player improvement. Of course, any pro athlete needs to have some degree of natural talent, but Kawhi was rather unremarkable in all areas, from skillset to athleticism, compared to other perimeter players. Only his length really stood out.

------------------------------------------------------------

His work ethic must be unbelievable.............

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There are a few examples of guys that could not shoot and had poor skills coming into the league that went on to be 1st team All-NBA.

Deandre Jordan, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Glen Rice, Scottie Pippen, Sidney Moncrief, etc had to develop quite a bit to reach the top of the NBA.

If anything it is more common now with the lack of player development that you saw once players started skipping college ball

[r0drig0lac]

very high

[SASdynasty!]

Kawhi's ceiling is Pop tbh

[$pursDynasty]

The roof?
ah I see what you did there. Insert crying Jordan meme

[picnroll]

Kawhi is far better than any non-homer expected, tbh..I don't remember who it was, but somebody on an NBA broadcast a few days ago said that he's the most improved player they have ever seen in their history covering the league..
..
That was Doug Collins.

[mrtxstar]

Kawhi is the league MVP and the only reason he wouldn't win it is because of the market he plays in. Defensive POY is no longer good enough to pay proper respect to Kawhi's level of performance on the court. It's time for Kawhi's MVP status to be recognized as absolutely legit. He proved last night he is every bit as good and better than a guy (Harden) who is recognized as a legit MVP candidate.
:clawMVP!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

It's unprecedented.

And he alone has made me rethink the idea of "natural talent" as a limiting factor in player improvement. Of course, any pro athlete needs to have some degree of natural talent, but Kawhi was rather unremarkable in all areas, from skillset to athleticism, compared to other perimeter players. Only his length really stood out.

k_22Ke3l-F4

This guy called it after the 2014 title

[MultiTroll]

:toast
As tensions heightened down the stretch, Leonard called off Danny Green (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3988/danny-green), who was guarding Harden, on defensive switches because he wanted to match up with the Rockets guard. Green said he tried to guard Harden to give Leonard a breather, but the Spurs forward "wouldn't have it."

[Old School 44]

It's unprecedented.

And he alone has made me rethink the idea of "natural talent" as a limiting factor in player improvement. Of course, any pro athlete needs to have some degree of natural talent, but Kawhi was rather unremarkable in all areas, from skillset to athleticism, compared to other perimeter players. Only his length really stood out.

And his incredible work ethic! And let us not forget those massive mits!!!
:claw

[picnroll]

Of the current and very recent past MVP candidates, Curry, Durant, James, Harden, Westbrook, and Leonard, Leonard is the only player imo on an upward trajectory demonstrating apparent ability to continue improving.

[TheDoctor]

ah I see what you did there. Insert crying Jordan meme
:lol
https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[JR3]

No clue. He just won't stop getting better.

[Robz4000]

God.

[lefty20]

The roof?


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/183/050/tumblr_lmpdixbFDm1qdt7kvo1_500.png

[BillMc]

Pretty damn high

http://www.cfr.org/publication/image-resizer.php?id=24751&preset=bkg_tcp_1160

[PopTheGOAT]

I know the MVP won't be awarded until after the playoffs this year. But does anyone know when the actual voting will take place?

If the voting is after or at least late in the PO's, that gives Russ a big disadvantage tbh. It would be between whoever advances further between Harden and Kawhi, imo.

[phxspurfan]

Of the current and very recent past MVP candidates, Curry, Durant, James, Harden, Westbrook, and Leonard, Leonard is the only player imo on an upward trajectory demonstrating apparent ability to continue improving.

Harden added superior court vision this year. No reason he can't at least try and guard somebody next year (but that probably won't happen as long as D'Antoni is coaching him)

[Thomas82]

Where would you rank Kawhi among the greatest Spurs ever if at some point in his prime he becomes the first star player to lead the Spurs to back-to-back titles?

[emanueldavidginobili]

Kawhi is Ranked 35th in MPG and 16th in FGA and he is 7th in Scoring. That's pretty crazy

[lefty20]

Where would you rank Kawhi among the greatest Spurs ever if at some point in his prime he becomes the first star player to lead the Spurs to back-to-back titles?

Firmly at #2, obviously. Getting to #1 is nigh impossible, he'd have to do some goat lvl shi just to be considered for that.