Going into the off season we needed a backup PG and a SF...

[Baam]

...and we still do, for some reason Buford signed a third string SG and a fourth string PF, how the hell does that make any sense :wakeup?

Like signing Gino and T-Vag to terrible deals wasn't bad enough, let's just sign players at positions that are stacked already...

Anyone has an explanation? Buford is not over the Finals and is drinking again?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luaqonQl1q1qj37pio1_500.jpg

[Boomersgold]

Who's the third string SG that we supposedly signed? The only SG that we've signed so far is Marco Bellineli, and he's a second string combo guard.

[benefactor]

:cry

[TE]

:cry
:lol

[cd021]

...and we still do, for some reason Buford signed a third string SG and a fourth string PF, how the hell does that make any sense :wakeup?

Like signing Gino and T-Vag to terrible deals wasn't bad enough, let's just sign players at positions that are stacked already...

Anyone has an explanation? Buford is not over the Finals and is drinking again?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luaqonQl1q1qj37pio1_500.jpg
u know ,the parker green leonard duncan splitter lineup was the best defensive starting 5 in the nba. Splitter certainly contributed to that. His contract was market value. I assume wanted splitter to walk and baynes to start?

Go home , your drunk, if you think beli is a third string Sg

joseph,beli, manu, diaw, and baynes/pendergrah is how are bench will probably look next season

[mosdef17]

Spurs have 4 PG's on the roster...

[Baam]

Spurs have 4 PG's on the roster...

Yeah but none good enough to backup TP...

Our two SGs were good enough and same thing with the PF position.

[Texas_Ranger]

a lot of point guards that can't pass the ball. We have like two guys on the roster that can assist the ball. And one of those likes to throw the ball to the opponents hands.

The problem is that they didn't improve a bit. Replacing Marco with Neal is the same thing and Blair so far has had a better career than Jeff Pendergraph. Lol @ still no backup SF, but looking for a big when you have 6 of them already. Not releasing Bonner, giving Manu a stupid deal.... Man they had 20 fucking millions. I really feel sorry for Tim, the guy that at age of 37 has to be the best player on the team. He'll probably have to play even better next year when Manu and company start shitting their pants.

[Blizzardwizard]

Belinelli > Neal

[mosdef17]

Yeah but none good enough to backup TP...

Our two SGs were good enough and same thing with the PF position.

CoJo showed in the playoffs that he is probably capable of playing 8-10mins behind TP. Then typically Manu plays backup PG (formerly with Neal, now with Marco at SG) for 4-6 mins. TP plays the other 32-34.

[Texas_Ranger]

Belinelli > Neal

not really....

[purist]

If u don't like the spurs offseason and it bothers you that much get off the bandwagon and font jump back on during season. Bitching about the offseason is pointless because its all on paper and no team has proven anything. Oh except for the spurs. The team that stood pat for theist part was 28 seconds from a 5th title. Reality check please.

[Bill_Brasky]

Why the fuck do people keep saying we need a backup PG.....are you fucking dumb? The job belongs to Cory.

[Spur-Addict]

If u don't like the spurs offseason and it bothers you that much get off the bandwagon and font jump back on during season. Bitching about the offseason is pointless because its all on paper and no team has proven anything. Oh except for the spurs. The team that stood pat for theist part was 28 seconds from a 5th title. Reality check please.

:cry "No one is allowed to criticize the team. Dissenting opinions are illegal. My ass is filled with Pop and R.C.'s semen"

[BackHome]

a lot of point guards that can't pass the ball. We have like two guys on the roster that can assist the ball. And one of those likes to throw the ball to the opponents hands.

The problem is that they didn't improve a bit. Replacing Marco with Neal is the same thing and Blair so far has had a better career than Jeff Pendergraph. Lol @ still no backup SF, but looking for a big when you have 6 of them already. Not releasing Bonner, giving Manu a stupid deal.... Man they had 20 fucking millions. I really feel sorry for Tim, the guy that at age of 37 has to be the best player on the team. He'll probably have to play even better next year when Manu and company start shitting their pants.

+ Fucking ONE!

[BackHome]

Why the fuck do people keep saying we need a backup PG.....are you fucking dumb? The job belongs to Cory.

Well you need to tell that to Pop>

[racm]

PATFO doesn't look at depth charts on how to build teams. They look at roles

The Spurs had only one rotation "small forward" (and in Pop's system, SG/SF are interchangeable just as PF/C are) and were an unlucky break from Larry O'Brien numero cinco.

No team plays a 90s lineup anymore, it's all about maximizing your shot attempts and trying to make your opponent get bad shots. Man defense is less necessary than team defense.

[TXstbobcat]

Joseph developing and taking the backup pg role full time will be huge this season.

[dallasmaverickslose]

...and we still do, for some reason Buford signed a third string SG and a fourth string PF, how the hell does that make any sense :wakeup?

Like signing Gino and T-Vag to terrible deals wasn't bad enough, let's just sign players at positions that are stacked already...

Anyone has an explanation? Buford is not over the Finals and is drinking again?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luaqonQl1q1qj37pio1_500.jpg

We have a back-up PG. his name is Cory Joseph. And for SF, we still have a huge chunk of the offseason to go. Why are you assuming the roster is 100% finished with being adjusted?

And as far as I'm concerned, we did pretty damn well without a legit backup SF the past season.

Never thought I'd actually see RC haters on these forums. Unbelievable.

[racm]

We have a back-up PG. his name is Cory Joseph. And for SF, we still have a huge chunk of the offseason to go. Why are you assuming the roster is 100% finished with being adjusted?

And as far as I'm concerned, we did pretty damn well without a legit backup SF the past season.

Never thought I'd actually see RC haters on these forums. Unbelievable.

I think the forum got way dumber when the new arrivals came in during the playoffs. You always get dumb bandwagoners during then.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I think the forum got way dumber when the new arrivals came in during the playoffs. You always get dumb bandwagoners during then.

Most of the new arrivals went armchair Pop or armchair RC mode after game 6.

[purist]

You got it!

[TheGreatYacht]

Bravo to those of you that aren’t satisfied with this shitty offseason so far. Apparently everyone that can't handle our criticism think that "RC and Pop can do no wrong." These Spurs homers have blind faith in the FO and are satisfied with 4 championships even though we haven't won shit since 2007. Anyone disagreeing is a spoiled little brat. Those of us that criticize the Spurs organization get called losers by these homers.

The funny part is who are the real losers in here? The ones that are satisfied with second place (4 championships from the past) and have blind faith in the FO & Pop OR we that are tired of the FO taking shortcuts year after year and desperately want to see a 5th championship banner go up the rafters?

Are the losers the ones that follow along like a flock of sheep with everything the FO does or are the losers the ones that feel sorry for Timmy that he’s had to carry the Pop and the FO for many years now? SMH… the answer is obvious.
Losers are happy with 2nd place.
Losers feel fortunate to have already won a title.
Losers will accept anything the front office does - because - well - see above...
Losers think you are selfish and spoiled - to be critical of anything - Pop and the front office do.


Do you think Lakers and Celtics fans - should just stop wanting their team to win more titles?
Do you think the Celtics fans gave up their rights to question their front office?


Spurstalk is full of losers and this offseason has revealed what losers most of you are. No one is calling for Pop's head. No one is calling bullshit on the Manu contract - as much as I love Manu - he is not worth this contract and he has deteriorated significantly and it is painful to see.

Losers will continue to lose. Enjoy.

[racm]

Most of the new arrivals went armchair Pop or armchair RC mode after game 6.

Pop's biggest error was not subbing in Duncan for the last possession of regulation and that was it. No amount of coaching or GMing can change whether a shot is made or missed, tbh.

[racm]

Bravo to those of that aren’t satisfied with this shitty offseason so far. Apparently everyone that can't handle our criticism think that "RC and Pop can do no wrong." These Spurs homers have blind faith in the FO and are satisfied with 4 championships even though we haven't won shit since 2007. Anyone disagreeing is a spoiled little brat. Those of us that criticize the Spurs organization get called losers by these homers.

The funny part is who are the real losers in here? The ones that are satisfied with second place (4 championships from the past) and have blind faith in the FO & Pop OR we that are tired of the FO taking shortcuts year after year and desperately want to see a 5th championship banner go up the rafters?

Are the losers the ones that follow along like a flock of sheep with everything the FO does or are the losers the ones that feel sorry for Timmy that he’s had to carry the Pop and the FO for many years now? SMH… the answer is obvious.

The offseason doesn't end until Game 1 of the Spurs season tips off, tbh. There's still a lot of possibilities, such as moving De Colo/Bonner/Joseph or whoever doesn't look rotation worthy. Remember, James Harden was traded just after preseason ended.

But there's one thing I think will deter a trade: contract length. The team doesn't want to take on long contracts because they're maximizing flexibility for the 2014 and 2015 offseasons. As it is the Spurs are still a good bet to come out of the West despite not tying up a lot of money in their core (The Big 3 make less money than Kobe will next season).

[dallasmaverickslose]

:cry "No one is allowed to criticize the team. Dissenting opinions are illegal. My ass is filled with Pop and R.C.'s semen"

Typical spoiled brat Spurs "fan" response. Anyone notice how obsessed these guys are with male privates?

[racm]

Typical spoiled brat Spurs "fan" response. Anyone notice how obsessed these guys are with male privates?

Give it a stop, Spurfan can't stop grieving yet; the 40 day grace period has yet to pass.

[ChumpDumper]

If all they're really lacking is an SF to play 10 mpg they're doing OK.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs signed two replacements for two departures. They still don't don't have a true backup PG or SF and only have two competent bigs. They haven't gotten better at all.

[T Park]

If all they're really lacking is an SF to play 10 mpg they're doing OK.

Yup. Ignore that Corey Joseph kid who's 21 and further developing as the back Up pg I guess...

[T Park]

The Spurs signed two replacements for two departures. They still don't don't have a true backup PG or SF and only have two competent bigs. They haven't gotten better at all.

Diaw is incompetent? Corey Joseph isn't a pg?

[racm]

The Spurs signed two replacements for two departures. They still don't don't have a true backup PG or SF and only have two competent bigs. They haven't gotten better at all.

If my base state was "a couple of lucky bounces from a ring", I think getting better would be a bit difficult.

[Spur-Addict]

Typical spoiled brat Spurs "fan" response. Anyone notice how obsessed these guys are with male privates?

:blah

[purist]

Spurs are exponentially more mentally tough than their fans on this message board. Wah wah wah we lost game 6. We didnt get any big free agents. Man up weak ass spurs fan.

[Vash StampedE]

As I have stated in other threads, Spurs don't necessarily need a PG but a playmaker that will play the role that once was Manu's. We need another playmaker alongside Parker so that during crunch time, the team's offense would be more unpredictable. Sadly, the Spurs were not able to address that due to various reasons.

[racm]

As I have stated in other threads, Spurs don't necessarily need a PG but a playmaker that will play the role that once was Manu's. We need another playmaker alongside Parker so that during crunch time, the team's offense would be more unpredictable. Sadly, the Spurs were not able to address that due to various reasons.

For all we know we might get Andre Miller in a trade soon. I don't want to touch him for now though, he's a worse second round virgin than T-Mac.

[TheGreatYacht]

To those that keep arguing that the offseason isn't over as a defensive mechanism for the shitty job that the FO has done so far, what will happen if the Spurs lose out on Greg Oden?

What will happen if the Spurs fail on their trade attempts and end up staying pat come regular season time? What will your defense mechanism be then? "Oh we still got till the trade deadline. We were only 28 seconds away from winning it all. I'm sure the FO will make a move before the trade deadline."

What will you'll be saying if the FO has failed trade attempts after the trade deadline? I wonder what the new defensive mechanism will be. My guess is the 28 seconds excuse. "Oh I'll never question Pop and the FO. We have the best FO in the world. I have faith in them."

[Vash StampedE]

Hmm Andre Miller? Possible but not sure about his defense, if he is any better than Neal.

BTW, is Tmac not anymore part of the team? I believe he could fill the back up SF position and do a decent job on that role. He just needs to get his shot back and also his conditioning.

[racm]

Hmm Andre Miller? Possible but not sure about his defense, if he is any better than Neal.

BTW, is Tmac not anymore part of the team? I believe he could fill the back up SF position and do a decent job on that role. He just needs to get his shot back and also his conditioning.

He's a free agent as of July 1. Not that either camp has said anything.

[Vash StampedE]

To those that keep arguing that the offseason isn't over as a defensive mechanism for the shitty job that the FO has done so far, what will happen if the Spurs lose out on Greg Oden?

What will happen if the Spurs fail on their trade attempts and end up staying pat come regular season time? What will your defense mechanism be then? "Oh we still got till the trade deadline. We were only 28 seconds away from winning it all. I'm sure the FO will make a move before the trade deadline."

What will you'll be saying if the FO has failed trade attempts after the trade deadline? I wonder what the new defensive mechanism will be. My guess is the 28 seconds excuse. "Oh I'll never question Pop and the FO. We have the best FO in the world. I have faith in them."
:lol Putting hope on Oden and his knees

[dallasmaverickslose]

To those that keep arguing that the offseason isn't over as a defensive mechanism for the shitty job that the FO has done so far, what will happen if the Spurs lose out on Greg Oden?

What will happen if the Spurs fail on their trade attempts and end up staying pat come regular season time? What will your defense mechanism be then? "Oh we still got till the trade deadline. We were only 28 seconds away from winning it all. I'm sure the FO will make a move before the trade deadline."

What will you'll be saying if the FO has failed trade attempts after the trade deadline? I wonder what the new defensive mechanism will be. My guess is the 28 seconds excuse. "Oh I'll never question Pop and the FO. We have the best FO in the world. I have faith in them."

You just hate everything about this team, don't you?

[cjw]

a lot of point guards that can't pass the ball. We have like two guys on the roster that can assist the ball. And one of those likes to throw the ball to the opponents hands.

We have nobody to "assist" the ball? You must have only been watching Manu in games 6 and 7 last year. Team assists per game last season:

#1 SAS 25.1
#2 ATL 24.5
#3 DEN 24.4
#4 LAC 23.9
etc.

And had the #2 assist / turnover ratio. We have a great passing team - Tim, Tiago and Diaw are the best passing front court in the league. You want a team that can't pass? Indy, who still thinks George Hill is a starting PG (worst in league in A / TO).

I would love for Green and Leonard to develop their passing some.

[spurs10]

Although everyone would like a big blockbuster trade, it is likely we are going with what we have. About six weeks ago that looked pretty good if I remember correctly. I'm sure RC and Pop haven't forgotten about the 'hole' behind Kawhi. Don't think Manu is their first choice for backup PG, SG, and SF.

[racm]

We have nobody to "assist" the ball? You must have only been watching Manu in games 6 and 7 last year. Team assists per game last season:

#1 SAS 25.1
#2 ATL 24.5
#3 DEN 24.4
#4 LAC 23.9
etc.

And had the #2 assist / turnover ratio. We have a great passing team - Tim, Tiago and Diaw are the best passing front court in the league. You want a team that can't pass? Indy, who still thinks George Hill is a starting PG (worst in league in A / TO).

I would love for Green and Leonard to develop their passing some.

I think Whiwhi's getting there as a passer. Don't think his APG will spike (because if he ever causes a defensive breakdown, it's likely to generate hockey assists) but his inbound passing is great (remember that Manu GW against Golden State? Kawhi should get credit for recognizing that the Dubs would help off Manu).

[Bruno]

Cory Joseph will be a good backup PG next season. When you look at what he has done late in the season at his age and with so little experience, that's very promising for next season. His summer with Canada NT should also help him.

For the backup SF spot, I will wait to see what happens with Blair before definitively commenting.

[Hoops Czar]

Diaw is incompetent? Corey Joseph isn't a pg?
Not consistently competent, no. Corey Joseph is still wet behind the ears to be a true backup to TP.

[Hoops Czar]

If my base state was "a couple of lucky bounces from a ring", I think getting better would be a bit difficult.

And 27 three's from Danny Green.

[palangi]

Bravo to those of you that aren’t satisfied with this shitty offseason so far. Apparently everyone that can't handle our criticism think that "RC and Pop can do no wrong." These Spurs homers have blind faith in the FO and are satisfied with 4 championships even though we haven't won shit since 2007. Anyone disagreeing is a spoiled little brat. Those of us that criticize the Spurs organization get called losers by these homers.

The funny part is who are the real losers in here? The ones that are satisfied with second place (4 championships from the past) and have blind faith in the FO & Pop OR we that are tired of the FO taking shortcuts year after year and desperately want to see a 5th championship banner go up the rafters?

Are the losers the ones that follow along like a flock of sheep with everything the FO does or are the losers the ones that feel sorry for Timmy that he’s had to carry the Pop and the FO for many years now? SMH… the answer is obvious.
well I guess bill belichik and rob kraft are idiots too? they haven't won since 2007 either. so the patriots are a bad organization.

you are way too emotional. winning championships are easy. getting there this year was a big deal. that is not failing. some of you guys play way too many video games, where you stack it and get there all the time.

[palangi]

Cory Joseph will be a good backup PG next season. When you look at what he has done late in the season at his age and with so little experience, that's very promising for next season. His summer with Canada NT should also help him.

For the backup SF spot, I will wait to see what happens with Blair before definitively commenting.
plus as it stands right now kawhi will get most of those minutes anyways. if a team has a big physical SF then in comes diaw or bonner again. if it is a smaller guy then green or ginobli can play a couple minutes there too. if it is durrant or james it doesn't matter who you have as your back up.

would I like to see a true SF there? sure. but we still have options especially if deshaun thomas ends up coming in. he seems like a kid that wants to work hard an make a difference this year. so I would count him out completely.

[palangi]

To those that keep arguing that the offseason isn't over as a defensive mechanism for the shitty job that the FO has done so far, what will happen if the Spurs lose out on Greg Oden?

What will happen if the Spurs fail on their trade attempts and end up staying pat come regular season time? What will your defense mechanism be then? "Oh we still got till the trade deadline. We were only 28 seconds away from winning it all. I'm sure the FO will make a move before the trade deadline."

What will you'll be saying if the FO has failed trade attempts after the trade deadline? I wonder what the new defensive mechanism will be. My guess is the 28 seconds excuse. "Oh I'll never question Pop and the FO. We have the best FO in the world. I have faith in them."
you do understand that you are ragging on a FO that wins 50-60 games every year, right? we can go all cuban if you want and change everythng and then become a lottery team? we can be the hawks and be young every year and get nowhere every year?

so we can either trust a couple guys that have been successful the past 15 years in the NBA or a tirading teenage girl whose emotions run wild when they don't do it YOUR way!

hell we went to the finals last year, why do we need an overhaul? would I like to see some younger more athletic guys come in? yes. but not at the expense of turning into the mavs, wizards, or hawks!

so for now I will trust pop and RC over your emotionally based tirade outbursts!

[Bruno]

plus as it stands right now kawhi will get most of those minutes anyways. if a team has a big physical SF then in comes diaw or bonner again. if it is a smaller guy then green or ginobli can play a couple minutes there too. if it is durrant or james it doesn't matter who you have as your back up.

would I like to see a true SF there? sure. but we still have options especially if deshaun thomas ends up coming in. he seems like a kid that wants to work hard an make a difference this year. so I would count him out completely.

Bonner or Diaw can't really play SF. As it stands, 99% of the non-garbage time backup SF minutes will be played by Green, Belinelli or Ginobili.

3 guards lineups should work most of the time but not always and having only Leonard as Sf will hurt Spurs small ball possibilities.

Now, I will wait a little before really bitching about that because if Spurs get a player like Ariza in a Blair S&T, it will solve everything.

[palangi]

Bonner or Diaw can't really play SF. As it stands, 99% of the non-garbage time backup SF minutes will be played by Green, Belinelli or Ginobili.

3 guards lineups should work most of the time but not always and having only Leonard as Sf will hurt Spurs small ball possibilities.

Now, I will wait a little before really bitching about that because if Spurs get a player like Ariza in a Blair S&T, it will solve everything.
I agree that neither can do it. but both did do it a little last year in spots. and that is all i think they would show again. i do believe diaw could be a little more valuable there if he got into shape and lost 50 lbs. I still don't think he could make a living there but he becomes valuable if we play a team with a big physical type 3. like when miami uses lebron there.

I do hope also that they can get a ariza type. a true SF. but if not I don't think it is the end of the world either like some here think. I am not arguing with you bruno. i was actually kind of piggy backing off what you were saying with a little more of my own thought added.

[T Park]

Not consistently competent, no. Corey Joseph is still wet behind the ears to be a true backup to TP.


Awesome you tell me who was the FA stud PF they were supposed to get? Oh and back up PG...

[xmas1997]

To those that keep arguing that the offseason isn't over as a defensive mechanism for the shitty job that the FO has done so far, what will happen if the Spurs lose out on Greg Oden?

What will happen if the Spurs fail on their trade attempts and end up staying pat come regular season time? What will your defense mechanism be then? "Oh we still got till the trade deadline. We were only 28 seconds away from winning it all. I'm sure the FO will make a move before the trade deadline."

What will you'll be saying if the FO has failed trade attempts after the trade deadline? I wonder what the new defensive mechanism will be. My guess is the 28 seconds excuse. "Oh I'll never question Pop and the FO. We have the best FO in the world. I have faith in them."


:troll and it becomes more and more obvious with each new post you make. I told you you would end up hanging yourself and you are doing a great job of it so far. What I haven't figured out yet is which team you're masquerading as a Spurs fan from, Mavs, Lakers, or Heat.

[palangi]

I don't get the hate for cojo. the guy is only 21 years old. and probably came out a year before he should have. he has progressed very nicely and will continue to as well. especially now that he is playing for canada.

is he a finished product? no. he still has room to develop and the ceiling is still high enough to develop more.

[DesignatedT]

Going into the off season we needed a backup PG and a SF...

Apparently the Spurs don't agree with your assessment of the roster.

[Vic Petro]

I don't get the hate for cojo. the guy is only 21 years old. and probably came out a year before he should have. he has progressed very nicely and will continue to as well. especially now that he is playing for canada.

is he a finished product? no. he still has room to develop and the ceiling is still high enough to develop more.

I don't hate Cojo at all, and have high hopes for him. However, do I want him learning on the job when this team has a 2 year window for a title? Saying you aren't confident with the ball in Cojo's hands in the NBA Finals (realistic destination for Spurs) doesn't mean you are a Cojo hater. Just means it would be nice to have some veteran insurance there in case he falls apart under the pressure, as many young players have on such a big stage.

[Baam]

I don't hate Cojo at all, and have high hopes for him. However, do I want him learning on the job when this team has a 2 year window for a title? Saying you aren't confident with the ball in Cojo's hands in the NBA Finals (realistic destination for Spurs) doesn't mean you are a Cojo hater. Just means it would be nice to have some veteran insurance there in case he falls apart under the pressure, as many young players have on such a big stage.

Exactly.

Cojo showed me nothing in the playoffs and nothing in the summer league where he mostly ran into people trying to play like TP.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on with that guy, the bottom line is would you be confident with him creating his own shot in the PO? No, he's there because he's a safe defensive option and we don't have anything better but with Manu getting worse and worse that won't cut it...

And he's not even that good defensively either...

[benefactor]

Why are any of you responding to Baam? My Boston Terrier has better basketball takes than he does.

[mudyez]

Lets put anyone on the position it suits him best only:

TP/CoJo/Nando/Patty
Green/Manu/Beli
Kawhi
Diaw/Bonner/Pendergraph
Tim/Tiago

IMHO it doesn't look as bad (Beli/Manu/Diaw will backup the SF in the playoffs anyway) but I'd like to have someone like T-Mac on the roster just to tutor Kawhi and beeing able to fit in if Kawhi needs a break when we play Miami at the tail end of FOFI.

[slick'81]

I think its clear spurs r goin with cj or nando at pg with mills as insurance .let's just hope one of the young guards improve at take the job.a baCk up 3/4 well that's another story

[dbestpro]

Cory Joseph will be a good backup PG next season. When you look at what he has done late in the season at his age and with so little experience, that's very promising for next season. His summer with Canada NT should also help him.

For the backup SF spot, I will wait to see what happens with Blair before definitively commenting.

Yeah, but will CoJo ever learn to run the pick and roll?

[Hoops Czar]

Awesome you tell me who was the FA stud PF they were supposed to get? Oh and back up PG...

They're aren't PF's in the Spur's price range but you know that or you wouldn't be asking. Not sure what your point is since you completely whiffed on my post. As it stands now, Diaw will probably spend as much time at SF as PF. Mo Williams as a veteran backup PG is a more stable solution than a developmental prospect.

[palangi]

I don't hate Cojo at all, and have high hopes for him. However, do I want him learning on the job when this team has a 2 year window for a title? Saying you aren't confident with the ball in Cojo's hands in the NBA Finals (realistic destination for Spurs) doesn't mean you are a Cojo hater. Just means it would be nice to have some veteran insurance there in case he falls apart under the pressure, as many young players have on such a big stage.
he is learning in practice, the summer league, and now for canada national team.

you make it sound like he can't even dribble a ball. and last years experience will be huge for him.

[dallasmaverickslose]

CoJo is going to surprise a lot of you this upcoming season.

[Vic Petro]

he is learning in practice, the summer league, and now for canada national team.

you make it sound like he can't even dribble a ball. and last years experience will be huge for him.

Sure he'll be better. But this team desperately needed another guard who can reliably create shots for himself and teammates out of the pick and roll, since Ginobili became anything but reliable. Can Cory Joseph be this player? Sure he can. But it's a huge gamble to have no other alternatives. Especially for a team with a 2 year window. I'm sure he'll be fine in the regular season. But I'm scared to death of him running pick and rolls in big playoffs spots. This is not hating on Cory. It's just given the Spurs position, I don't agree with trusting such a young player in such a key role with no safety net.

[Bruno]

Yeah, but will CoJo ever learn to run the pick and roll?

Joseph not doing a lot offensively last season was partly because he was thrown at the backup PG slot in March. Give him that spot at the first day of the training camp and I'm quite sure he will be able to do more especially on the P&R.

To me, there are little reasons not to think Joseph won't be able to be a good backup PG next season. And if he fails, Spurs can still go with Mills or De Colo. Both can play. Spurs are just fine at the backup PG slot.

[T Park]

They're aren't PF's in the Spur's price range but you know that or you wouldn't be asking. Not sure what your point is since you completely whiffed on my post. As it stands now, Diaw will probably spend as much time at SF as PF. Mo Williams as a veteran backup PG is a more stable solution than a developmental prospect.


So you're bitching about not acquiring a PF yet acknowledge there were nine available.

Typical messageboarder thought speak.

[elemento]

I've always defended Cojo in ST and I really wanna see him succeeding in SA.

But I don't see how our PG situation is fine. It may be fine in the the regular season, but in the playoffs, I can't see it.

It's the same way it was last season. Tony Parker is the only reliable guard we have taking care of the ball against elite defense. Manu's case as a backup PG should be over after the Finals. Mills is a bench warmer (a 6'0 SG tbh) and he is only here because he had a PO. Nando is a TO machine and we're still trying to figure out if he is a 1 or a 2.

As a serious contender, SA needs a guy that they can trust the ball other than Parker. And as a much as a love Cojo's potential, can we really trust him against elite defensive teams? Is he really ready considering that he logged only 9min/game in the last playoffs ?

I wish Cojo really explodes next season because if the FO is still fine with Manu as a backup PG, the bad memories will be back sooner that we thought.

I did not like what the FO did in the off-season and the only thing I can do is hope for the best.

[Vic Petro]

I've always defended Cojo in ST and I really wanna see him succeeding in SA.

But I don't see how our PG situation is fine. It may be fine in the the regular season, but in the playoffs, I can't see it.

It's the same way it was last season. Tony Parker is the only reliable guard we have taking care of the ball against elite defense. Manu's case as a backup PG should be over after the Finals. Mills is a bench warmer (a 6'0 SG tbh) and he is only here because he had a PO. Nando is a TO machine and we're still trying to figure out if he is a 1 or a 2.

As a serious contender, SA needs a guy that they can trust the ball other than Parker. And as a much as a love Cojo's potential, can we really trust him against elite defensive teams? Is he really ready considering that he logged only 9min/game in the last playoffs ?

I wish Cojo really explodes next season because if the FO is still fine with Manu as a backup PG, the bad memories will be back sooner that we thought.

I did not like what the FO did in the off-season and the only thing I can do is hope for the best.


:toast

[Blizzardwizard]

not really....

This season, yes, Belinelli will be better than Neal was.

Better shot selection, better defense (everyone has better D than Neal).

[Texas_Ranger]

This season, yes, Belinelli will be better than Neal was.

Better shot selection, better defense (everyone has better D than Neal).

I really hope you're right.

[palangi]

I've always defended Cojo in ST and I really wanna see him succeeding in SA.

But I don't see how our PG situation is fine. It may be fine in the the regular season, but in the playoffs, I can't see it.

It's the same way it was last season. Tony Parker is the only reliable guard we have taking care of the ball against elite defense. Manu's case as a backup PG should be over after the Finals. Mills is a bench warmer (a 6'0 SG tbh) and he is only here because he had a PO. Nando is a TO machine and we're still trying to figure out if he is a 1 or a 2.

As a serious contender, SA needs a guy that they can trust the ball other than Parker. And as a much as a love Cojo's potential, can we really trust him against elite defensive teams? Is he really ready considering that he logged only 9min/game in the last playoffs ?

I wish Cojo really explodes next season because if the FO is still fine with Manu as a backup PG, the bad memories will be back sooner that we thought.

I did not like what the FO did in the off-season and the only thing I can do is hope for the best.
so basically we should have an allstar backing up tony?

who is the thunder back up PG?

cojo is every bit as good as cole or chalmers.

who does houston have behind lin?

some of you are just finding something to bit<h about. I can see the SF gripe more than the PG gripe.

[Texas_Ranger]

so basically we should have an allstar backing up tony?

who is the thunder back up PG?

cojo is every bit as good as cole or chalmers.

who does houston have behind lin?

some of you are just finding something to bit<h about. I can see the SF gripe more than the PG gripe.

Oklahoma's got Reggie Jackson that is just as good or even better than Joseph, Houston's got Patrick Beverley who could become a starter and no Joseph is not better than Chalmers or Cole. I know a lot of guys think Cole sucks, but at least he showed up in the playoffs.
Also, Miami and the Thunder don't even need a good backup PG cause Westbrook can play 40+ minutes a game and so can LeBron for Miami.

[elemento]

so basically we should have an allstar backing up tony?

who is the thunder back up PG?

cojo is every bit as good as cole or chalmers.

who does houston have behind lin?

some of you are just finding something to bit<h about. I can see the SF gripe more than the PG gripe.

No we don't need an all-star. We need someone that we can trust the ball. Someone that doesn't turn the ball over 8 times in a decisive game.

OKC's backup is Reggie Jackson and don't be surprised if he fights for the 6th man of the year next season.

Houston's backup PG is Patrick Beverley and also don't be surprised if he actually takes Jeremy's starting spot. They also have Harden

I don't think we need to actually find anything to bitch about after what we saw last season concerning the backup PG spot . It's what It is it. Tony is the only reliable guard we have to take care of the ball in the playoffs. For the info, I am way more comfortable with Manu, Marco or Green playing the 3, than with Mills, Nando, Cojo or Manu playing the 1.

[Robz4000]

Reggie Jackson is much better than CoJo at this time tbh. Could change but we'll see.

[Texas_Ranger]

The real problem is that our main guys are old and other teams are young. Miami, OKC, Houston, Indiana,... players can play a whole game if the game is important, while on the other side a guy with 7M a year can't even play 25 minutes.

[Budkin]

The only decision this team makes that ever pisses me off is keeping Matt Bonner. Something just isn't right about it. It makes no fucking sense.

[Robz4000]

The only decision this team makes that ever pisses me off is keeping Matt Bonner. Something just isn't right about it. It makes no fucking sense.

He has his uses and after he showed up in the playoffs this past season I have no more complaints. Now if they refused to use him in a trade for a player for a needed position (ie an Ariza or a similar player) then I'd have an issue.

[Vic Petro]

We are also not an iso team like OKC. They can just give the ball to Durant or Westbrook and get the hell out of the way. The Spurs are totally dependent on ball movement and pick and roll, which necessitates a ball handler that makes good decisions and can pass on the court at all times.

[TheGreatYacht]

so basically we should have an allstar backing up tony?

who is the thunder back up PG?

cojo is every bit as good as cole or chalmers.

who does houston have behind lin?

some of you are just finding something to bit<h about. I can see the SF gripe more than the PG gripe.:lmao @ some Spurs homer trying the justify the incompetent offseason by the FO. CoJo is a work in progress but he's not better than Cole or Chalmers yet. CoJo needs to develop a consistent three-point shot and some better finishing moves at the rim which are things that Reggie Jackson, Norris Cole, and Mario Chalmers can already do.

[dallasmaverickslose]

:lmao @ some Spurs homer trying the justify the incompetent offseason by the FO. CoJo is a work in progress but he's not better than Cole or Chalmers yet. CoJo needs to develop a consistent three-point shot and some better finishing moves at the rim which are things that Reggie Jackson, Norris Cole, and Mario Chalmers can already do.

How about you give RC a call so that he can be blessed by your never-ending knowledge, O knowledgable one!

[TheGreatYacht]

How about you give RC a call so that he can be blessed by your never-ending knowledge, O knowledgable one!I’m just having a fun time reading all the absurd input given by the Spurs homers.

[TD 21]

I've always defended Cojo in ST and I really wanna see him succeeding in SA.

But I don't see how our PG situation is fine. It may be fine in the the regular season, but in the playoffs, I can't see it.

It's the same way it was last season. Tony Parker is the only reliable guard we have taking care of the ball against elite defense. Manu's case as a backup PG should be over after the Finals. Mills is a bench warmer (a 6'0 SG tbh) and he is only here because he had a PO. Nando is a TO machine and we're still trying to figure out if he is a 1 or a 2.

As a serious contender, SA needs a guy that they can trust the ball other than Parker. And as a much as a love Cojo's potential, can we really trust him against elite defensive teams? Is he really ready considering that he logged only 9min/game in the last playoffs ?

I wish Cojo really explodes next season because if the FO is still fine with Manu as a backup PG, the bad memories will be back sooner that we thought.

I did not like what the FO did in the off-season and the only thing I can do is hope for the best.

You're spot on. I can see the apologists and the those who worship timvp now, when they're getting away with Joseph against run of the mill regular season competition and his stats look decent enough . . . but that's not what it's about. You can plug in just about any minimal backup PG and health willing, this team will still thrive in the regular season, because they're a machine and more than any other team, you need the time that the playoffs afford to prepare for them.

It's not just the Thunder/Heat, either. It's the Clippers, Rockets, Grizzlies and Warriors, too. All have PG's who are excellent on ball defenders, in particular Beverley and Douglas. It's difficult to imagine him not struggling mightily against them.

I'd love to be wrong in this case, not just for the obvious, but because I like Joseph. I just don't think he times well with this team.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I’m just having a fun time reading all the absurd input given by the Spurs homers.

"Absurd input" as in us suggesting that the FO just might know what it's doing better than a random Internet user such as yourself?

[99 Problems]

Are we really interested in Mo Williams? Anybody else heard much?

[palangi]

:lmao @ some Spurs homer trying the justify the incompetent offseason by the FO. CoJo is a work in progress but he's not better than Cole or Chalmers yet. CoJo needs to develop a consistent three-point shot and some better finishing moves at the rim which are things that Reggie Jackson, Norris Cole, and Mario Chalmers can already do.
http://www.hivehealthmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/head-up-ass.jpg

[palangi]

I’m just having a fun time reading all the absurd input given by the Spurs homers.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRm9px-xYbYLSVmiqWXZZEM2h7W0dbqCyGisYEvVzsDB4SAeYQ-TA

[Chinook]

And before 2011-2012, the biggest needs on the team were starting two-guard and a small-forward to replace Jefferson...

[Baam]

And before 2011-2012, the biggest needs on the team were starting two-guard and a small-forward to replace Jefferson...

Hum? they made moves at that time because they had to, there was a sense of desperation, TP saying they were done as contenders and all so they had no choice.

Now for some reason they are just happy to stay pat.

[Chinook]

Hum? they made moves at that time because they had to, there was a sense of desperation, TP saying they were done as contenders and all so they had no choice.

Now for some reason they are just happy to stay pat.

They didn't. They apparently tried (and failed) to get every free-agent small-forward available that off-season. The plan, apparently, was to amnesty Jefferson and use the full MLE to bring in someone to start instead of relying on an unproven Leonard. There was also a lot of angst (and excitement) over Anderson getting the nod next to Parker. When he sucked it up to begin the season, a lot of people panicked. They wanted to bring in a "legitimate" starter at the two, instead of leaving in an unproven Green.

Turns out, Green and Leonard stepped up big time and locked down their spots. Unproven Splitter started next to Duncan and together with the New Two at the wings, he brought the Spurs' defense back to its glory days. The Spurs are pretty much at that same stage with Joseph. Pop needs to embrace him instead of trying to upgrade from him. The window is open because of the youth that's come into the team, not because of some older free agent Buford brought in.

[Sean Cagney]

And they still were within a game of the Finals victory last year with needs to be addressed! I know some teams got better but the Spurs did not get worse! I think Belli might be a player and others will get better. The only thing that worries me is Tim, will he come back down to earth or have another year? Parker hopefully healthy and Manu hopefully pulls a TIM and rejuvinates himself in some ways. Kawhi should be getting better and will Joseph STEP UP into that backup role with Neal gone? All questions, wait for the anwers.

[Baam]

They didn't. They apparently tried (and failed) to get every free-agent small-forward available that off-season. The plan, apparently, was to amnesty Jefferson and use the full MLE to bring in someone to start instead of relying on an unproven Leonard. There was also a lot of angst (and excitement) over Anderson getting the nod next to Parker. When he sucked it up to begin the season, a lot of people panicked. They wanted to bring in a "legitimate" starter at the two, instead of leaving in an unproven Green.

Turns out, Green and Leonard stepped up big time and locked down their spots. Unproven Splitter started next to Duncan and together with the New Two at the wings, he brought the Spurs' defense back to its glory days. The Spurs are pretty much at that same stage with Joseph. Pop needs to embrace him instead of trying to upgrade from him. The window is open because of the youth that's come into the team, not because of some older free agent Buford brought in.

Curry was something like 13/14 with Joseph guarding him... He had an underwhelming PO run and an underwhelming summer league... And you don't talk about Diaw and Sjax but you seem obsessed with young players for some reason...

Also the Splitter part is laughable when you know how little he did in the POs so far...

[Chinook]

Curry was something like 13/14 with Joseph guarding him... He had an underwhelming PO run and an underwhelming summer league... And you don't talk about Diaw and Sjax but you seem obsessed with young players for some reason...

Also the Splitter part is laughable when you know how little he did in the POs so far...

Seeing as the Spurs got better when Splitter replaced Diaw in the starting lineup and that Jack tried to hold the team back, I didn't think it was necessary for me to say I don't consider them to be as important as Green, Leonard and Splitter. I love what Diaw has brought to the team, and he's certainly was a big help, but there's a reason most people consider him expendable. Jack's greatest contribution is that he wasn't Jefferson. If Pop had put him in the starting lineup over Leonard two years ago, the Spurs would not have made it to the WCF.

Also, the idea that starting Splitter wasn't a big reason for the Spurs' defensive resurgence is weak, in my opinion. He had a DRtg of 100 in the regular season. That's outstanding. And before you talk about his playoff performance, his DRtg was still only 101. Even in the Finals, he was great on defense. I understand why you don't like him on offense (even though he was one of the best players in the league by ORtg) -- especially after The Block -- but to try to take away what he does on defense is completely wrong.

[Baam]

Seeing as the Spurs got better when Splitter replaced Diaw in the starting lineup and that Jack tried to hold the team back, I didn't think it was necessary for me to say I don't consider them to be as important as Green, Leonard and Splitter. I love what Diaw has brought to the team, and he's certainly was a big help, but there's a reason most people consider him expendable. Jack's greatest contribution is that he wasn't Jefferson. If Pop had put him in the starting lineup over Leonard two years ago, the Spurs would not have made it to the WCF.

Also, the idea that starting Splitter wasn't a big reason for the Spurs' defensive resurgence is weak, in my opinion. He had a DRtg of 100 in the regular season. That's outstanding. And before you talk about his playoff performance, his DRtg was still only 101. Even in the Finals, he was great on defense. I understand why you don't like him on offense (even though he was one of the best players in the league by ORtg) -- especially after The Block -- but to try to take away what he does on defense is completely wrong.

I'm just saying that :

- they made moves at the time to address the needs of the team, even calling Green's UNC coach showed that they saw something in him; there's no backup SF bar none of the roster right now so there's not even a project and backup PG is extremely shaky, Cojo might end up being serviceable but right now he's clearly below average...

- SJax and Diaw did 100 times as much as Splitter when it comes to the last two deep runs and they came from moves done in that timeframe like Kawhi, as opposed to zero move this summer

[therealtruth]

Curry was something like 13/14 with Joseph guarding him... He had an underwhelming PO run and an underwhelming summer league... And you don't talk about Diaw and Sjax but you seem obsessed with young players for some reason...

Also the Splitter part is laughable when you know how little he did in the POs so far...

Splitter could have played better overall but his defense was a huge reason we got to the Finals.

[Vash StampedE]

I don't get the hate for cojo. the guy is only 21 years old. and probably came out a year before he should have. he has progressed very nicely and will continue to as well. especially now that he is playing for canada.

is he a finished product? no. he still has room to develop and the ceiling is still high enough to develop more.
We don't hate CoJo. We just think that he is not the answer to the hole of the team's roster, that being backup SF and another playmaker.

[Vash StampedE]

Hum? they made moves at that time because they had to, there was a sense of desperation, TP saying they were done as contenders and all so they had no choice.

Now for some reason they are just happy to stay pat.
You could blame the FO but probably with another reason and not the reason you provided. Blame them for having not enough money to lure a good FA or you could blame Manu and Splitter's agent for demanding big contract. Or you could directly blame Manu and Splitter for that. But you can't blame the FO for staying pat because they didn't

[xmas1997]

IMHO with a full season under his belt backing up Tony, Cojo should solve our back up PG problem. He already has the defense, and shows signs of having the offense.
So all they need is a competent SF, especially if they get lucky enough to get Oden. They would have to open up another roster spot to do both which means either trading, dropping, or amnestying someone.

[Chinook]

I'm just saying that :

- they made moves at the time to address the needs of the team, even calling Green's UNC coach showed that they saw something in him; there's no backup SF bar none of the roster right now so there's not even a project and backup PG is extremely shaky, Cojo might end up being serviceable but right now he's clearly below average...

- SJax and Diaw did 100 times as much as Splitter when it comes to the last two deep runs and they came from moves done in that timeframe like Kawhi, as opposed to zero move this summer

No one thought Green was going to be a factor in 2011-2012. In fact, the biggest use most posters saw in him was that his contract was not guaranteed. A lot of people didn't think he was going to survive the preseason. He was definitely seen as farther away from contributing than Joseph is now. Even Leonard seemed like a project who'd be good at defense and rebounds but who was a year or two from being a contributor. The Spurs have plenty of youngish players who could potentially make similar impacts this upcoming season.

Also, it's just not true that Jack did anything to open the Spurs' window in 2012 (and especially 2013). He only played well in one series -- really only two games -- and none of his good performances led to any victories. The Spurs made it to the 2012 WCF because of Green's defense on Paul and Leonard's hustle. Obviously, Duncan was the fundamental reason, but he alone was not going to get it done. Even if you hate Splitter, you can't pretend like Splitter wasn't key in closing out the Warriors and sweeping the Grizzlies. Had Splitter been injured, the Spurs would not have made it to the Finals.

Diaw is obviously important, but even he was never as indispensable as Splitter. Really, his biggest contribution is giving the Spurs a legitimate third big so Splitter can start. I like Boris a lot to, but he simply isn't as important against most teams. Great third big, but not a great second big by any means.

[ace3g]

Say the Spurs don't get a SF from a potential S&T deal involving Blair; what vet SFs would you want included on the Spurs training camp roster?

Childress, Gomes, Pietrus, etc.

[Chinook]

Probably Pietrus or Childress.

Pietrus is a solid player, even though he's really about the same size as Green. He seemed to play well on the Magic during its height. He was an okay three-point shooter, and he at least had some nice athleticism.

Childress has the size that people want, but he's beanpole. He's had some good seasons shooting, but he's never been even an average defender. His win-shares with the Hawks look great. He's a very intriguing small-ball four option as well. He was horrible with the Nets last year, though.

[BackHome]

All I know is I don't want CoJo, Manu, Green, Diaw having to play SF if Kawhi has to miss any games.

Would be nice to get a vet PG...I am not sure about CoJo but I was hating on him his first year and the difference from his first season to second season was HUGE. I hope he can make another leap like that in his third year and if so then we will be good to go.

[ace3g]

Bruno do you know of any other available international SFs?

[xmas1997]

All I know is I don't want CoJo, Manu, Green, Diaw having to play SF if Kawhi has to miss any games.

Would be nice to get a vet PG...I am not sure about CoJo but I was hating on him his first year and the difference from his first season to second season was HUGE. I hope he can make another leap like that in his third year and if so then we will be good to go.

I predict he will make another leap as long as Pop plays him.

[ace3g]

I have great confidence in CJ for next year; considering how late in the year he became part of the rotation and still had an impact in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs.

He is the type of player the recovers 50/50 balls and is a good rebounder for a PG.

And for those mad about his awkwardness and super aggressiveness during SL, that was due to instruction by the coaches, to put him out of his comfort zone.

[Bruno]

Bruno do you know of any other available international SFs?

Not really. It's late in the off-season and Spurs can only offer a min contract. Maybe Malik Hairston but he is small.

You can add some names to Gomes, Childress and Pietrus like Ronnie Brewer, Rip Hamilton, Xavier Henry, Corey Maggette, James Johnson, Josh Howard, Sam Young, Luke Babbitt or Devin Ebanks.

[Bruno]

I also don't think at all Spurs need a backup SF. With Leonard and Ariza, they are damn fine at this spot.

[Chinook]

^?

[xmas1997]

I also don't think at all Spurs need a backup SF. With Leonard and Ariza, they are damn fine at this spot.

What, Bruno, did we get Ariza? Because I haven't heard of it if we have. Or was that wishful thinking?

Also, Bruno, do you know if Odens' agent, Duffy, have a good working relationship with the Spurs FO, or not so good?

[TD 21]

The only two names out of the leftovers that Bruno listed that I could see them having interest (and I use that word loosely) in, are Pietrus and depending on where he's at physically, Howard.

ace, what impact did Joseph have in the first 3 rounds? I've never seen a rotation player with less responsibility in the playoffs. He'd literally come in for 2-3 minute segments, advance the ball, give it to Ginobili and go spot up. He didn't show a single discernible offensive skill outside of cutting . . . which is nice, but much like rebounding (for PG's), it's a secondary skill.

Chinook, in those cases, they had no one better, limited means to get someone who they thought might be and as usual, they were turned down by them anyway. Besides, none of Splitter, Leonard or Green, were projects. People pretend Green was, but he was always the 3D role player he is now, he's just gotten better in both areas.

[Vic Petro]

The only two names out of the leftovers that Bruno listed that I could see them having interest (and I use that word loosely) in, are Pietrus and depending on where he's at physically, Howard.

ace, what impact did Joseph have in the first 3 rounds? I've never seen a rotation player with less responsibility in the playoffs. He'd literally come in for 2-3 minute segments, advance the ball, give it to Ginobili and go spot up. He didn't show a single discernible offensive skill outside of cutting . . . which is nice, but much like rebounding (for PG's), it's a secondary skill.

Chinook, in those cases, they had no one better, limited means to get someone who they thought might be and as usual, they were turned down by them anyway. Besides, none of Splitter, Leonard or Green, were projects. People pretend Green was, but he was always the 3D role player he is now, he's just gotten better in both areas.

He had developed a pretty good mid range jumper out of the pick and roll. I'd bet this is a reliable shot for him next year.

My problems with CJ are that he doesn't shoot the 3 well, isn't a creative passer, and isn't the best decision maker with the ball in his hands. These are all skills he can and probably will improve over the course of this summer and next regular season. However, as last season showed us, in the playoffs when single possessions are so crucial, the Spurs are desperate for a guard who is a creative passer and makes good decisions with the ball in his hands. These are CJs specific weaknesses. I'd bet he'll improve these areas, but will he improve them enough by next season's playoffs that we'll collectively be confident he'll make a play against a good playoff defense? I have my doubts. But if the front office and coaching staff and teammates believe in him, then I support it even though I dont agree. Lets go CJ.

[Bruno]

do you know if Odens' agent, Duffy, have a good working relationship with the Spurs FO, or not so good?

Duffy is one of the biggest NBA's agent and, as far I know, he doesn't have some kind of issues with Spurs.

He is also Danny Green agent. The story on how Green re-signed with Spurs after being waived also showed that Duffy hasn't some issues with Spurs: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2013/06/17/nba-finals-miami-heat-vs-san-antonio-spurs-danny-green/2432815/

I truly think Oden and his entourage have highlighted Spurs as a great destination for him to make his come back. The issue is that there are other great destinations.

[xmas1997]

Duffy is one of the biggest NBA's agent and, as far I know, he doesn't have some kind of issues with Spurs.

He is also Danny Green agent. The story on how Green re-signed with Spurs after being waived also showed that Duffy hasn't some issues with Spurs: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2013/06/17/nba-finals-miami-heat-vs-san-antonio-spurs-danny-green/2432815/

I truly think Oden and his entourage have highlighted Spurs as a great destination for him to make his come back. The issue is that there are other great destinations.

Thanks for the info. It is what I expected the situation to be. I still wouldn't bet on him coming here though, the money is more lucrative elsewhere.

[raybies]

I'm surprised Sam young hasn't been signed. Thought he was solid for the pacers and for a third string sf, we could do worse.

[rascal]

Diaw is incompetent? Corey Joseph isn't a pg?

Diaw plays small just like Splitter. Diaw is not a true big. Those guys can't even get rebounds.

[ace3g]

I also don't think at all Spurs need a backup SF. With Leonard and Ariza, they are damn fine at this spot.

Well that is IF the Spurs get Ariza, of course I'd be fine with the SF depth.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I also don't think at all Spurs need a backup SF. With Leonard and Ariza, they are damn fine at this spot.

Is Bruno privy to something the rest of the fan universe isn't?

[Mal]

Sam Young is available ? Go get him.

[Chinook]

Chinook, in those cases, they had no one better, limited means to get someone who they thought might be and as usual, they were turned down by them anyway. Besides, none of Splitter, Leonard or Green, were projects. People pretend Green was, but he was always the 3D role player he is now, he's just gotten better in both areas.

Leonard was supposedly a project on offense. He was going to need a couple of years to work on his handles and shooting. He was penciled in as a defense and rebounding guy. Green wasn't a project, and I didn't say he was. I said that people didn't have much faith in him and didn't think he'd be a factor for the starting-two spot. Are you going to disagree with that? I didn't say Splitter was a project either. I was he was unproven, or at least seen as such.

As I said earlier in the thread, the team tried to get an upgrade to Jefferson through free agency. Butler, Prince and Howard are the names I recall off the top of my head. Butler and Prince took more money elsewhere, and Howard signed a smallish contract with Utah. The Spurs were supposedly considering trading Green for him mid-season. What a mistake what would have been.

The whole reason I said that was because Baam said the front office filled the holes at the starting two and competent three by making moves that seemed satisfactory at the time. They didn't. Many Spurs fans were very concerned about those positions, especially after Anderson laid and egg. It all worked out because the team relied on young players to pick up the slack. No reason not to do it again this time, at least until they prove they can't.

[Baam]

Leonard was supposedly a project on offense. He was going to need a couple of years to work on his handles and shooting. He was penciled in as a defense and rebounding guy. Green wasn't a project, and I didn't say he was. I said that people didn't have much faith in him and didn't think he'd be a factor for the starting-two spot. Are you going to disagree with that? I didn't say Splitter was a project either. I was he was unproven, or at least seen as such.

As I said earlier in the thread, the team tried to get an upgrade to Jefferson through free agency. Butler, Prince and Howard are the names I recall off the top of my head. Butler and Prince took more money elsewhere, and Howard signed a smallish contract with Utah. The Spurs were supposedly considering trading Green for him mid-season. What a mistake what would have been.

The whole reason I said that was because Baam said the front office filled the holes at the starting two and competent three by making moves that seemed satisfactory at the time. They didn't. Many Spurs fans were very concerned about those positions, especially after Anderson laid and egg. It all worked out because the team relied on young players to pick up the slack. No reason not to do it again this time, at least until they prove they can't.

Who is the young player at SF tho, I strongly feel that you should be stacked at SF with the league being what it is to be good enough defensively, it's way better than being stacked at SG like the Spurs were and decided to be again by signing Belinelli...

Look at the Pacers : three legit Lebron defenders in Stephenson, George and Granger... The Spurs don't have anything close to that...

So I'll wait and see of course but so far there isn't even a prospect to develop, maybe they get a Singleton in a sign and trade but I don't have much faith right now...

[BackHome]

I guess TMac is going to stay on our team?

[Chinook]

Who is the young player at SF tho, I strongly feel that you should be stacked at SF with the league being what it is to be good enough defensively, it's way better than being stacked at SG like the Spurs were and decided to be again by signing Belinelli...

Look at the Pacers : three legit Lebron defenders in Stephenson, George and Granger... The Spurs don't have anything close to that...

So I'll wait and see of course but so far there isn't even a prospect to develop, maybe they get a Singleton in a sign and trade but I don't have much faith right now...

Well, since you love Diaw so much you should be inclined to believe that the Spurs could obtain the small-forward they need by picking up a cheap vet later in the season. We've seen players like Fisher, Martin and Anderson come in mid-season and give their teams a boost. Perhaps that kind of player (Josh Howard or Ariza after the trade deadline passes) will come in to help the Spurs if they need it. Otherwise, there are still players like Thomas and Thompson who could fill that role. Thompson in particular has the size and shooting to develop into something serviceable.

[FireMicoHalili]

Mo Will + Ariza, still holding my breath on this one. Both have championship experience. IMO yeah CoJo showed some resilience but we would benefit having someone raring at a chance to win a ring

[callo1]

With the work ethic Cojo has, and his massive improvement last offseason, I expect him to be ready to lead the team off the bench next season.

[TD 21]

Leonard was supposedly a project on offense. He was going to need a couple of years to work on his handles and shooting. He was penciled in as a defense and rebounding guy. Green wasn't a project, and I didn't say he was. I said that people didn't have much faith in him and didn't think he'd be a factor for the starting-two spot. Are you going to disagree with that? I didn't say Splitter was a project either. I was he was unproven, or at least seen as such.

As I said earlier in the thread, the team tried to get an upgrade to Jefferson through free agency. Butler, Prince and Howard are the names I recall off the top of my head. Butler and Prince took more money elsewhere, and Howard signed a smallish contract with Utah. The Spurs were supposedly considering trading Green for him mid-season. What a mistake what would have been.

The whole reason I said that was because Baam said the front office filled the holes at the starting two and competent three by making moves that seemed satisfactory at the time. They didn't. Many Spurs fans were very concerned about those positions, especially after Anderson laid and egg. It all worked out because the team relied on young players to pick up the slack. No reason not to do it again this time, at least until they prove they can't.

You're missing the point. It didn't work out "because the team relied on young players", it worked out because those young players were good players. And despite what you say, two of them were always thought to be and the other always had the two necessary skills to be a fit. Old, young, somewhere in between, that's what it's about. We've seen next to nothing from Joseph to indicate he's next in line, at least in the short term and with two chances left and this team being close, that should be the only concern.

People are underrating the importance of this role. It's not about whether they can get away with it in the regular season, it's about getting Parker, who's got the mileage of a player much older, who runs himself ragged every game and who'll be playing for France again this summer, through the season and four rounds in one piece. Not banged up or worn out from having a minimal backup.

[Chinook]

You're missing the point. It didn't work out "because the team relied on young players", it worked out because those young players were good players. And despite what you say, two of them were always thought to be and the other always had the two necessary skills to be a fit. Old, young, somewhere in between, that's what it's about. We've seen next to nothing from Joseph to indicate he's next in line, at least in the short term and with two chances left and this team being close, that should be the only concern.

People are underrating the importance of this role. It's not about whether they can get away with it in the regular season, it's about getting Parker, who's got the mileage of a player much older, who runs himself ragged every game and who'll be playing for France again this summer, through the season and four rounds in one piece. Not banged up or worn out from having a minimal backup.

I'm not missing the point. It worked out because the Spurs let players proved themselves. Sure, Green and Leonard were good players in college. But they hadn't done anything in the pros until the middle of 2011-2012. For you to imply that people thought Green was always going to be starting caliber is not true. For you to say that people though Leonard was going to be able to come in and lock down the starting-three position almost immediately is also untrue.

Of course the Medium Three came to the Spurs as good players. That's why the Spurs acquired them in the first place. They've committed all of this time to Joseph because they think he's a good player, too. The Spurs would not have given him the nod over De Colo if they didn't think he was ready. This isn't a situation like with AK or Ariza, where price was a big issue. The team could have easily signed a Ford-caliber backup and chose not to. That's because they didn't see it as a need. Time may prove them wrong, but it's not the same as ignoring a hole.

[TD 21]

I'm not missing the point. It worked out because the Spurs let players proved themselves. Sure, Green and Leonard were good players in college. But they hadn't done anything in the pros until the middle of 2011-2012. For you to imply that people thought Green was always going to be starting caliber is not true. For you to say that people though Leonard was going to be able to come in and lock down the starting-three position almost immediately is also untrue.

Of course the Medium Three came to the Spurs as good players. That's why the Spurs acquired them in the first place. They've committed all of this time to Joseph because they think he's a good player, too. The Spurs would not have given him the nod over De Colo if they didn't think he was ready. This isn't a situation like with AK or Ariza, where price was a big issue. The team could have easily signed a Ford-caliber backup and chose not to. That's because they didn't see it as a need. Time may prove them wrong, but it's not the same as ignoring a hole.

You are. You think it's about them being young, but it's not; it's about them being good. I never implied people thought Green would be starting caliber nor that people thought Leonard would be damn near an instant starter. The point was, there was always reason to think they could be contributors, just not to the extent they've been.

I disagree. I think they've committed the time to Joseph because they always knew he was going to be a long term project, love his work ethic and like what he could be in theory. :lol The part about De Colo; as if he has any credibility. Them not addressing the need is, I think in large part, because of the rapid ascent of Leonard and Green and the out of nowhere success of Neal. It's as if they think it'll automatically happen with Joseph too, because they're the Spurs.

[Chinook]

You are. You think it's about them being young, but it's not; it's about them being good. I never implied people thought Green would be starting caliber nor that people thought Leonard would be damn near an instant starter. The point was, there was always reason to think they could be contributors, just not to the extent they've been.

I disagree. I think they've committed the time to Joseph because they always knew he was going to be a long term project, love his work ethic and like what he could be in theory. :lol The part about De Colo; as if he has any credibility. Them not addressing the need is, I think in large part, because of the rapid ascent of Leonard and Green and the out of nowhere success of Neal. It's as if they think it'll automatically happen with Joseph too, because they're the Spurs.

So your last part is kind of weird. You're pretty much saying that the Spurs are just pretending to believe in Joseph because they're praying that they catch lightening in another bottle after Green and Leonard worked out. I have no idea why you think that. It's much more likely that the Spurs believe in Joseph and are willing to go young because they've seen what going old does to a team with an old core. Leonard and Green helped the team because they were good, but the fact that they were young, had upside, could handle big minutes for stretches, were athletic and hungry and weren't set in their ways played a huge role in why everything worked out.

You think Joseph is not ready. That's fine. But if we take for a fact that the Spurs think he's ready, then it makes perfect sense why they didn't go out of their way to fill that spot. Your protest may end up being valid, but as of now, it's fundamentally no different than the constant calls over last season for the Spurs to find a "legitimate" two-guard like Redick to replace Green.

[TheGreatYacht]

You are. You think it's about them being young, but it's not; it's about them being good. I never implied people thought Green would be starting caliber nor that people thought Leonard would be damn near an instant starter. The point was, there was always reason to think they could be contributors, just not to the extent they've been.

I disagree. I think they've committed the time to Joseph because they always knew he was going to be a long term project, love his work ethic and like what he could be in theory. :lol The part about De Colo; as if he has any credibility. Them not addressing the need is, I think in large part, because of the rapid ascent of Leonard and Green and the out of nowhere success of Neal. It's as if they think it'll automatically happen with Joseph too, because they're the Spurs.
So your last part is kind of weird. You're pretty much saying that the Spurs are just pretending to believe in Joseph because they're praying that they catch lightening in another bottle after Green and Leonard worked out. I have no idea why you think that. It's much more likely that the Spurs believe in Joseph and are willing to go young because they've seen what going old does to a team with an old core. Leonard and Green helped the team because they were good, but the fact that they were young, had upside, could handle big minutes for stretches, were athletic and hungry and weren't set in their ways played a huge role in why everything worked out.

You think Joseph is not ready. That's fine. But if we take for a fact that the Spurs think he's ready, then it makes perfect sense why they didn't go out of their way to fill that spot. Your protest may end up being valid, but as of now, it's fundamentally no different than the constant calls over last season for the Spurs to find a "legitimate" two-guard like Redick to replace Green.You both have some valid arguments. I don't think the Spurs ever go out of their way to pick a FA tbh.

[ace3g]

I'd say take another look at Derrick Brown but looks like he is staying with his Euro team:

http://www.court-side.com/news/blog/derrick-brown-stays-with-lokomotiv-kuban/

[TD 21]

So your last part is kind of weird. You're pretty much saying that the Spurs are just pretending to believe in Joseph because they're praying that they catch lightening in another bottle after Green and Leonard worked out. I have no idea why you think that. It's much more likely that the Spurs believe in Joseph and are willing to go young because they've seen what going old does to a team with an old core. Leonard and Green helped the team because they were good, but the fact that they were young, had upside, could handle big minutes for stretches, were athletic and hungry and weren't set in their ways played a huge role in why everything worked out.

You think Joseph is not ready. That's fine. But if we take for a fact that the Spurs think he's ready, then it makes perfect sense why they didn't go out of their way to fill that spot. Your protest may end up being valid, but as of now, it's fundamentally no different than the constant calls over last season for the Spurs to find a "legitimate" two-guard like Redick to replace Green.

I wouldn't say pretending, but I honestly think they think they can take just about any player, who fits their culture and has decent or better physical tools and mold them into a rotation player.

Again, your primary reason for going with Joseph is based on the success of three other players, who were always better and who have nothing to do with him. By your logic, Pendergraph and Baynes should be the third and fourth bigs, because they're younger than Diaw and Bonner, both of whom are on the downside.

:lol It's completely different. Green had shown throughout the previous season plus that he was an above average defender and elite three-point shooter. Joseph hasn't shown nearly as much.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't say pretending, but I honestly think they think they can take just about any player, who fits their culture and has decent or better physical tools and mold them into a rotation player.

Again, your primary reason for going with Joseph is based on the success of three other players, who were always better and who have nothing to do with him. By your logic, Pendergraph and Baynes should be the third and fourth bigs, because they're younger than Diaw and Bonner, both of whom are on the downside.

:lol It's completely different. Green had shown throughout the previous season plus that he was an above average defender and elite three-point shooter. Joseph hasn't shown nearly as much.

It's the same. You're saying you haven't seen enough of him to think he's a good player. Some people think they have. You say he doesn't adequately fill his position. Some people think he does. Sure, there are small differences that can be objectively measured, and subjectively, I agree that Green was already a solid part of the rotation the year before. But a fair number to people saw (and still do) him as the weak link on the team that could (and needed to) be upgraded with Redick, Ellis, Jack :lol and a whole list of players. You don't trust Joseph, and those people didn't trust Green. It's the same objection, with potentially stronger support.

And you keep ignoring the reasons people give as to why they think Joseph will be better next year. It's not just because it's young, and you know it. You can disagree with those reasons all you want, but don't keep acting like they weren't given. Diaw is at the end of his prime as a big, and Bonner is about as good as he ever was. We all hope Pendergraph and Baynes are better than Bonner, and it would be great for them to be good enough to challenge Diaw. But that's not the same thing as being against bringing in a vet to replace a player who did exactly what was expected of him last season and who has the skills and lower-level production to suggest he's going to be able to handle much more responsibility next season.

[TD 21]

It's the same. You're saying you haven't seen enough of him to think he's a good player. Some people think they have. You say he doesn't adequately fill his position. Some people think he does. Sure, there are small differences that can be objectively measured, and subjectively, I agree that Green was already a solid part of the rotation the year before. But a fair number to people saw (and still do) him as the weak link on the team that could (and needed to) be upgraded with Redick, Ellis, Jack :lol and a whole list of players. You don't trust Joseph, and those people didn't trust Green. It's the same objection, with potentially stronger support.

And you keep ignoring the reasons people give as to why they think Joseph will be better next year. It's not just because it's young, and you know it. You can disagree with those reasons all you want, but don't keep acting like they weren't given. Diaw is at the end of his prime as a big, and Bonner is about as good as he ever was. We all hope Pendergraph and Baynes are better than Bonner, and it would be great for them to be good enough to challenge Diaw. But that's not the same thing as being against bringing in a vet to replace a player who did exactly what was expected of him last season and who has the skills and lower-level production to suggest he's going to be able to handle much more responsibility next season.

Just admit it was yet another terrible comparison on your part. One guy had proven himself as an elite 3 point shooter and plus defender and the other guy has yet to prove himself as an NBA player period.

I'm not sure how I "keep ignoring", when this is the first time specific reasons have been given . . . I don't agree with them, but at least you explained your reasoning (which I can respect), so I left it alone.

[Chinook]

Just admit it was yet another terrible comparison on your part. One guy had proven himself as an elite 3 point shooter and plus defender and the other guy has yet to prove himself as an NBA player period.

I'm not sure how I "keep ignoring", when this is the first time specific reasons have been given . . . I don't agree with them, but at least you explained your reasoning (which I can respect), so I left it alone.

It's not a terrible comparison. You're conflating justification with structure. The argument's the same. You just think you are more justified in making it. You have different ideas for what it means to "play well" and to be "proven." But you are claiming the same thing that those people did about Green, that he was a weak link and that the team would be significantly better if it could upgrade from him, to the point that the need to upgrade makes it a hole.

You're talking to the person who suggested a Mo Williams trade and a CJ Watson signing in the Think Tank over the last month or so in addition to pretty consistent ideas of acquiring backup point-guards over the last season. I definitely can understand the benefit of upgrading from my perspective. I don't think it's a need, and especially not one worth spending significant resources on. If Pop thinks Joseph's fine (he hasn't always decided to trust a young player behind Parker), then it's perfectly reasonable to see why the Spurs didn't replace him. It's not like the need at the three, which Buford publicly acknowledged as a hole and about which they've done nothing.

We pretty much went through a stretch of posts where I was explaining what evidence I saw that Joseph was going to be a good player, and you kept responding that it wasn't specific enough. Then you started saying that I was just relying on Joseph's youth or the success of the Medium Three.

My argument is essentially that Joseph showed potential and played the role Pop wanted him to play last season. The fact that he's not very experienced should not automatically remove him from the rotation. Young players who flash potential and who have the right attitude often succeed, especially recently. Joseph has all the physical tools to be a good point-guard, and he demonstrated it in the d-league. The Spurs' window has been held open by Pop not shutting players like him out of the rotation. Sure, he's taking a risk that Joseph flops, but he's taking the same risk when it comes to Ginobili's health, Parker's fatigue, Duncan's rejuvenation, Green's confidence, Leonard's growth and Splitter's toughness. Those are just the things you have to hope work out.

Obviously, you don't think Joseph is good enough, so it's easy why you don't agree with that argument. In that same way, some people don't believe in Splitter, Green or Ginobili now. Time will tell who's right in all this.

[TD 21]

It's not a terrible comparison.

You're right, it's not terrible, it's beyond terrible. The argument is not the same, because one player was already proven. Whether some thought he was the weak link or needed to be upgraded or whatever, that's another matter altogether.


If Pop thinks Joseph's fine (he hasn't always decided to trust a young player behind Parker), then it's perfectly reasonable to see why the Spurs didn't replace him. It's not like the need at the three, which Buford publicly acknowledged as a hole and about which they've done nothing.

I don't care what Pop or anyone else thinks. Unlike the majority of this board, that just regurgitates whatever timvp or Bruno say, I actually have my own opinion.

Right again, it's not like the need at the three; it's worse, because at least at the three, the other options are proven, quality players.


We pretty much went through a stretch of posts where I was explaining what evidence I saw that Joseph was going to be a good player, and you kept responding that it wasn't specific enough.

Until I asked for specifics, you spoke in generalities.


The fact that he's not very experienced should not automatically remove him from the rotation

And it shouldn't guarantee him a spot either, nor should the success of others.


Joseph has all the physical tools to be a good point-guard, and he demonstrated it in the d-league

:lol Again with the D-League. Who are you, ChumpDumper?

Physical tools are nice (and his are far closer to solid than spectacular), but this is the ultimate skill position and he doesn't have a single notable offensive skill that involves the ball.


Sure, he's taking a risk that Joseph flops, but he's taking the same risk when it comes to Ginobili's health, Parker's fatigue, Duncan's rejuvenation, Green's confidence, Leonard's growth and Splitter's toughness. Those are just the things you have to hope work out.

:lol Your worst comparison yet. He doesn't have much of a choice there, since those are the six best players on the team, which means they're far more difficult to and in some cases, impossible, to upgrade.

[Chinook]

You're right, it's not terrible, it's beyond terrible. The argument is not the same, because one player was already proven. Whether some thought he was the weak link or needed to be upgraded or whatever, that's another matter altogether.

Some people still don't think Green is proven, and I'd say the majority of people on the board didn't think Green was proven until after the WCSF. Again, the argument is the same; the parameters for justifying it are different.


I don't care what Pop or anyone else thinks. Unlike the majority of this board, that just regurgitates whatever timvp or Bruno say, I actually have my own opinion.

Right again, it's not like the need at the three; it's worse, because at least at the three, the other options are proven, quality players.

Saying the Spurs didn't do enough to fill the hole is one thing. But to say that they ignored the hole is another. It's like saying that the Pacers didn't do enough to strengthen their bench because Scola's too old to carry it. Your opinion on how adequately filled the position has no bearing on whether or not the team ignored it. Baam is saying the front office was negligent when it comes to filling holes this off-season. That's not the same thing as not being able to see where the holes actually were, which is what you're saying is going on with Joseph.


Again with the D-League. Who are you, ChumpDumper?

Physical tools are nice (and his are far closer to solid than spectacular), but this is the ultimate skill position and he doesn't have a single notable offensive skill that involves the ball.

The d-league is where he played the most minutes and had the most responsibility. NBA skills like shooting (48-percent on three-pointer) carry over. He wasn't transcendent with the Toros, but he definitely showed the ability to do more than what he did with the Spurs last season. How many late-season pickups really play well for their teams? Diaw is a pretty big exception.


:lol Your worst comparison yet. He doesn't have much of a choice there, since those are the six best players on the team, which means they're far more difficult to and in some cases, impossible, to upgrade.

It's funny that you seem to think that, but you preach about the Spurs hedging their bets on Splitter and Duncan by bringing in another big. The Spurs almost certainly can get the assets together to get a player or two that can help prop up some of the top six. You're also trying to say the Spurs should hedge Parker's fatigue by getting another point-guard instead of relying on Joseph.

[TD 21]

Some people still don't think Green is proven

I know a good number of idiots who thought his flame out in the WCF was because he "choked", but coming out of these playoffs, there's no argument for him not being proven.


Saying the Spurs didn't do enough to fill the hole is one thing. But to say that they ignored the hole is another. It's like saying that the Pacers didn't do enough to strengthen their bench because Scola's too old to carry it. Your opinion on how adequately filled the position has no bearing on whether or not the team ignored it. Baam is saying the front office was negligent when it comes to filling holes this off-season. That's not the same thing as not being able to see where the holes actually were, which is what you're saying is going on with Joseph.

I'm too tired to even bother attempting to make sense of this. Call it whatever you like, but to me, they've taken a foolish, unnecessary risk. This was only considered blasphemous after timvp and later Bruno, were firmly entrenched on the Joseph band wagon. Now all the usual suspects have predictably jumped on board.


The d-league is where he played the most minutes and had the most responsibility. NBA skills like shooting (48-percent on three-pointer) carry over. He wasn't transcendent with the Toros, but he definitely showed the ability to do more than what he did with the Spurs last season. How many late-season pickups really play well for their teams? Diaw is a pretty big exception.

The D-League is also not the NBA and I know he's not an explosive scorer or phenomenal athlete, but he didn't exactly set the league on fire, either.


It's funny that you seem to think that, but you preach about the Spurs hedging their bets on Splitter and Duncan by bringing in another big. The Spurs almost certainly can get the assets together to get a player or two that can help prop up some of the top six. You're also trying to say the Spurs should hedge Parker's fatigue by getting another point-guard instead of relying on Joseph.

Yeah, because Splitter is fragile and soft, Duncan is ancient and Parker isn't too far off being ancient himself at this point. That's why they need players around and behind them who can be counted on for more than minimal minutes, if need be.