TheGreatYacht
08-03-2013, 02:43 AM
Someone made another thread about Manu being the 3rd best SG in the NBA and of course a lot of Manutards bought into that shit. According to the Hollinger stats on ESPN, Manu was indeed the 4th best SG in the league last season behind Wade, Kobe, and Harden. Since the Manutards use the Hollinger PER stat to support their theory about their God Manu, I want to ask the Spurs homers another question.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of Spurs homers think that Tony Parker is the best PG in the NBA. Well according to Hollinger, Parker was the 3rd best PG in the NBA last season. Are you Spurs homers willing to admit that Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook are better than TP?
I myself don't have too much of a problem with Hollinger's PER stats because according to them, Tim Duncan was the best PF last season which I already knew of course and I don't need some statistician to confirm what my eyes see. Keep in mind that the PER stats don’t really take into account defense. According to the Hollinger PER stats, Carmelo Anthony and Brook Lopez are better than Tim Duncan.
So Manutards and Spurs homers, what is your opinion on this matter?
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Point Guards
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Point Guards
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe)
1
Chris Paul (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2779), LAC
70
33.4
.594
36.9
8.7
23.9
2.8
10.5
6.7
26.43
537.7
17.9
2
Russell Westbrook (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3468), OKC
82
34.9
.532
22.8
10.2
31.2
4.8
11.8
8.6
23.98
554.4
18.5
3
Tony Parker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1015), SA
66
32.9
.588
27.6
9.4
26.6
1.0
9.1
5.3
23.10
392.7
13.1
4
Kyrie Irving (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6442), CLE
59
34.7
.553
20.1
11.0
29.2
1.8
10.8
6.1
21.51
321.3
10.7
5
Stephen Curry (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3975), GS
78
38.2
.589
23.5
10.5
25.3
2.3
9.1
5.8
21.34
460.2
15.3
6
John Wall (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=4237), WSH
49
32.7
.521
26.7
11.2
28.7
2.4
11.2
6.8
20.91
236.9
7.9
7
Deron Williams (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2798), BKN
78
36.4
.574
28.6
10.3
24.9
1.2
8.5
4.8
20.38
397.8
13.3
8
Kemba Walker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6479), CHA
82
34.9
.517
22.7
9.6
24.8
2.3
9.2
5.7
18.86
335.5
11.2
9
Jose Calderon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2806), DET/TOR
73
29.6
.616
39.4
9.6
16.5
1.1
8.6
4.8
18.80
251.5
8.4
10
Mike Conley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3195), MEM
80
34.5
.549
28.0
10.9
21.3
1.8
7.9
4.8
18.38
303.8
10.1
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Power Forwards
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Power Forwards
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/VORPe)
1
Tim Duncan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=215), SA
69
30.1
.554
12.8
10.2
24.8
7.3
29.6
19.1
24.45
401.7
13.4
2
Blake Griffin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3989), LAC
80
32.5
.572
17.2
10.6
24.0
8.7
21.5
15.2
22.44
424.3
14.1
3
Amar'e Stoudemire (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1727), NY
29
23.5
.637
3.4
12.9
22.8
10.0
15.1
12.4
22.16
108.5
3.6
4
Anthony Davis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6583), NO
64
28.8
.559
6.8
9.6
19.9
10.5
23.5
16.8
21.80
283.8
9.5
5
David West (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2177), IND
73
33.4
.545
14.0
10.3
23.0
6.8
18.8
12.9
20.15
314.2
10.5
6
Paul Millsap (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3015), UTAH
78
30.4
.550
14.7
10.1
21.1
8.6
18.8
13.7
19.89
297.4
9.9
7
Dirk Nowitzki (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=609), DAL
53
31.3
.564
13.0
6.9
21.9
2.5
21.5
12.2
19.88
207.6
6.9
8
J.J. Hickson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3437), POR
80
29.0
.591
8.0
13.2
18.0
13.2
28.5
20.7
19.71
315.8
10.5
9
Serge Ibaka (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3439), OKC
80
31.1
.612
4.2
12.1
15.9
11.1
17.0
14.2
19.41
293.3
9.8
10
Kevin Garnett (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=261), BOS
68
29.7
.535
13.2
9.1
21.9
4.5
25.8
15.5
19.25
261.0
8.
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - All Players
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Players
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORPe)
1
LeBron James (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1966), MIA
76
37.9
.640
23.3
9.6
28.2
4.4
20.8
13.1
31.67
909.0
30.3
2
Kevin Durant (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3202), OKC
81
38.5
.647
15.5
11.6
27.4
1.8
20.3
11.8
28.35
830.8
27.7
3
Chris Paul (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2779), LAC
70
33.4
.594
36.9
8.7
23.9
2.8
10.5
6.7
26.43
537.7
17.9
4
Carmelo Anthony (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1975), NY
67
37.0
.560
8.3
8.5
32.2
6.1
15.9
10.8
24.83
530.8
17.7
5
Brook Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3448), BKN
74
30.4
.567
4.8
8.9
26.1
10.8
16.1
13.4
24.81
477.8
15.9
6
Tim Duncan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=215), SA
69
30.1
.554
12.8
10.2
24.8
7.3
29.6
19.1
24.45
401.7
13.4
7
Dwyane Wade (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1987), MIA
69
34.7
.571
19.3
10.6
27.0
4.7
12.6
8.9
24.04
483.1
16.1
8
Russell Westbrook (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3468), OKC
82
34.9
.532
22.8
10.2
31.2
4.8
11.8
8.6
23.98
554.4
18.5
9
Tony Parker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1015), SA
66
32.9
.588
27.6
9.4
26.6
1.0
9.1
5.3
23.10
392.7
13.1
Kobe Bryant (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=110), LAL
78
38.6
.570
17.9
10.9
30.0
2.5
13.1
7.9
23.10
566.4
18.9
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics
I'm pretty sure that a lot of Spurs homers think that Tony Parker is the best PG in the NBA. Well according to Hollinger, Parker was the 3rd best PG in the NBA last season. Are you Spurs homers willing to admit that Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook are better than TP?
I myself don't have too much of a problem with Hollinger's PER stats because according to them, Tim Duncan was the best PF last season which I already knew of course and I don't need some statistician to confirm what my eyes see. Keep in mind that the PER stats don’t really take into account defense. According to the Hollinger PER stats, Carmelo Anthony and Brook Lopez are better than Tim Duncan.
So Manutards and Spurs homers, what is your opinion on this matter?
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Point Guards
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Point Guards
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe)
1
Chris Paul (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2779), LAC
70
33.4
.594
36.9
8.7
23.9
2.8
10.5
6.7
26.43
537.7
17.9
2
Russell Westbrook (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3468), OKC
82
34.9
.532
22.8
10.2
31.2
4.8
11.8
8.6
23.98
554.4
18.5
3
Tony Parker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1015), SA
66
32.9
.588
27.6
9.4
26.6
1.0
9.1
5.3
23.10
392.7
13.1
4
Kyrie Irving (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6442), CLE
59
34.7
.553
20.1
11.0
29.2
1.8
10.8
6.1
21.51
321.3
10.7
5
Stephen Curry (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3975), GS
78
38.2
.589
23.5
10.5
25.3
2.3
9.1
5.8
21.34
460.2
15.3
6
John Wall (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=4237), WSH
49
32.7
.521
26.7
11.2
28.7
2.4
11.2
6.8
20.91
236.9
7.9
7
Deron Williams (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2798), BKN
78
36.4
.574
28.6
10.3
24.9
1.2
8.5
4.8
20.38
397.8
13.3
8
Kemba Walker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6479), CHA
82
34.9
.517
22.7
9.6
24.8
2.3
9.2
5.7
18.86
335.5
11.2
9
Jose Calderon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2806), DET/TOR
73
29.6
.616
39.4
9.6
16.5
1.1
8.6
4.8
18.80
251.5
8.4
10
Mike Conley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3195), MEM
80
34.5
.549
28.0
10.9
21.3
1.8
7.9
4.8
18.38
303.8
10.1
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Power Forwards
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Power Forwards
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/VORPe)
1
Tim Duncan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=215), SA
69
30.1
.554
12.8
10.2
24.8
7.3
29.6
19.1
24.45
401.7
13.4
2
Blake Griffin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3989), LAC
80
32.5
.572
17.2
10.6
24.0
8.7
21.5
15.2
22.44
424.3
14.1
3
Amar'e Stoudemire (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1727), NY
29
23.5
.637
3.4
12.9
22.8
10.0
15.1
12.4
22.16
108.5
3.6
4
Anthony Davis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=6583), NO
64
28.8
.559
6.8
9.6
19.9
10.5
23.5
16.8
21.80
283.8
9.5
5
David West (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2177), IND
73
33.4
.545
14.0
10.3
23.0
6.8
18.8
12.9
20.15
314.2
10.5
6
Paul Millsap (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3015), UTAH
78
30.4
.550
14.7
10.1
21.1
8.6
18.8
13.7
19.89
297.4
9.9
7
Dirk Nowitzki (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=609), DAL
53
31.3
.564
13.0
6.9
21.9
2.5
21.5
12.2
19.88
207.6
6.9
8
J.J. Hickson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3437), POR
80
29.0
.591
8.0
13.2
18.0
13.2
28.5
20.7
19.71
315.8
10.5
9
Serge Ibaka (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3439), OKC
80
31.1
.612
4.2
12.1
15.9
11.1
17.0
14.2
19.41
293.3
9.8
10
Kevin Garnett (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=261), BOS
68
29.7
.535
13.2
9.1
21.9
4.5
25.8
15.5
19.25
261.0
8.
2012-13 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - All Players
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Players
RK
PLAYER
GP
MPG
TS% (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/trueShootingPct)
AST (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/assistRatio)
TO (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false)
USG (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/usageRate)
ORR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/offReboundRate)
DRR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/defReboundRate)
REBR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/reboundRate)
PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/order/false)
VA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORP)
EWA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORPe)
1
LeBron James (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1966), MIA
76
37.9
.640
23.3
9.6
28.2
4.4
20.8
13.1
31.67
909.0
30.3
2
Kevin Durant (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3202), OKC
81
38.5
.647
15.5
11.6
27.4
1.8
20.3
11.8
28.35
830.8
27.7
3
Chris Paul (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2779), LAC
70
33.4
.594
36.9
8.7
23.9
2.8
10.5
6.7
26.43
537.7
17.9
4
Carmelo Anthony (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1975), NY
67
37.0
.560
8.3
8.5
32.2
6.1
15.9
10.8
24.83
530.8
17.7
5
Brook Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3448), BKN
74
30.4
.567
4.8
8.9
26.1
10.8
16.1
13.4
24.81
477.8
15.9
6
Tim Duncan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=215), SA
69
30.1
.554
12.8
10.2
24.8
7.3
29.6
19.1
24.45
401.7
13.4
7
Dwyane Wade (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1987), MIA
69
34.7
.571
19.3
10.6
27.0
4.7
12.6
8.9
24.04
483.1
16.1
8
Russell Westbrook (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3468), OKC
82
34.9
.532
22.8
10.2
31.2
4.8
11.8
8.6
23.98
554.4
18.5
9
Tony Parker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1015), SA
66
32.9
.588
27.6
9.4
26.6
1.0
9.1
5.3
23.10
392.7
13.1
Kobe Bryant (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=110), LAL
78
38.6
.570
17.9
10.9
30.0
2.5
13.1
7.9
23.10
566.4
18.9
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics