Spurs: Kawhi Leonard WILL be a top 30 all-time player [Archive]

ElNono

08-04-2013, 02:36 PM

if I was a queer...

I like how Naruto sat through the meeting, listened to their concerns and was like..."Okay, fuck y'all...I'm getting ramen."

Take that, you little pissants! Naruto, the GREATEST HERO IN KONOHA HISTORY don't give a shit about your petty concerns. Get him some ramen and get the fuck outta' his way!

This is the Naruto I missed. The arrogant a-hole that does shit cause he feels like it. The safety of the village hangs in the balance? Screw you! I gotsta get me some noodles!

DUNCANownsKOBE

08-04-2013, 02:42 PM

^:lmao

Rogue

08-04-2013, 08:27 PM

dude might be a top 30 of HIS time but top 30 of all-time? He would have to be as good as Paul Pierce, which he wouldn't I think. The ceiling of him wouldn't preponderate the 05-07 Josh Howard imho. Smokey was also a solid defender back then, though Kawhi's durability will be better than Smokey since he doesn't smoke weed (as far as I know)

Baam

08-04-2013, 08:54 PM

facepalm.jpg

Katherine Robinson

08-04-2013, 08:59 PM

Better chance of Kobe Bryant earning a 6th ring.

spurraider21

08-04-2013, 09:52 PM

Rogue seems to remember Josh Howard as a top 10 player in the league or somethin

Rogue

08-04-2013, 10:09 PM

TXstbobcat

08-04-2013, 10:10 PM

I think that he will develop into a great player for the spurs but I think it's too early to even think about Leonard as a top 30 all time player. He isn't even an allstar yet.

spurraider21

08-04-2013, 11:07 PM

Smokey in his ephemeral prime was a legit #2 on our team and was safely a top 20 player in the league back then imho, not sure if he was top 10 though while guys like Pierce and t-mac were still balling at their highest levels.
I recall you making a comment earlier that Josh was at one point arguably the Mavs best player... Saying he has arguably better than Dirk is placing him in the top 10

HI-FI

08-05-2013, 01:04 AM

OP making a bold statement but i agree with it.

I like how Naruto sat through the meeting, listened to their concerns and was like..."Okay, fuck y'all...I'm getting ramen."

Take that, you little pissants! Naruto, the GREATEST HERO IN KONOHA HISTORY don't give a shit about your petty concerns. Get him some ramen and get the fuck outta' his way!

This is the Naruto I missed. The arrogant a-hole that does shit cause he feels like it. The safety of the village hangs in the balance? Screw you! I gotsta get me some noodles!
:lmao
literally the gift that keeps on giving.

gnsf0946

08-05-2013, 03:52 AM

I was thinking more around top 50 but I guess top 30 should be doable.

TDMVPDPOY

08-05-2013, 04:07 AM

top30 all time? what fkn cock you clowns sucking?

if you said top30-50 now in the nba, then we can agree on

TheRealCB

08-05-2013, 06:14 AM

I recall you making a comment earlier that Josh was at one point arguably the Mavs best player... Saying he has arguably better than Dirk is placing him in the top 10

He had moments when he outperformed Dirk,but,no he wasn't close to Dirk.

Axegrinder

08-05-2013, 07:43 AM

Kid is very good, and very likeable, but I don't see him getting to that level unfortunately

PlayNando

08-05-2013, 01:24 PM

Mark my words, faggots.
No.

boga

08-05-2013, 02:24 PM

can you name the top-30 players of all time?

J.T.

08-05-2013, 02:51 PM

It's not a coincidence that your first sig image is a pic of Towelie getting high, because no sober person would post this.

Strategic

08-05-2013, 02:58 PM

Maybe in the Southwest division, but.....................

eric365

08-05-2013, 04:34 PM

I give him a 0.1% chance to get there

AchillesHeel

08-06-2013, 03:53 AM

can you name the top-30 players of all time?
I'll give you my 20 greatest players in no order

Duncan
Magic
Kareem
Kirby
LePED
Three
Barkley
Ewing
Malone
Dirk
West
Bird
Dr J
Shaq
Stockton
Wilt
MJ
Olajuwon
Russell
Robertson

after them 20 it's pretty wide open, if you win about 2 rings as an alpha you could get into top 20 quite easily if your career lasts, about 30 of the top 50 all-time players are sidekicks that won along the greats so even if Kawhi is a 2nd option on multiple championship teams he could easily get to where Pippen is. Which in my opinion he will.

Pippen first 2 yrs(he came into the league a year later as well). Based on the stats you could argue that Kawhi has actually had a better career start than Pippen, identical in steals, better rebounder and a more efficient scorer, especially from the 3, doesn't foul nearly as much and if we go advanced Pippen doesn't even stand a chance, Kawhi is a much more efficient scorer and less turnover prone and his offensive win shares are way better compared to Pippen's. I'd say based on the first 2 years Kawhi has the package to be a better version of Pippen, at least offensively. Pretty much the same size, freakish wingspan, huge hands and weighs 10 pounds more. Based on all this data me and my scientists have gathered I'd say it's just a matter of time before Kawhi takes over this league.

Scottie Pippen: Per Game (1987-88 to 1988-89)

From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS

1988
1989
152
56
26.7
4.4
9.4
.471
0.2
0.7
.250
2.0
3.1
.634
1.7
3.2
4.9
2.8
1.5
0.7
2.2
3.1
11.0

Kawhi's first 2 yrs

Kawhi Leonard: Per Game (2011-12 to 2012-13)

From
To
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS

2012
2013
122
96
27.4
3.8
7.6
.494
0.9
2.3
.375
1.4
1.8
.804
1.4
4.1
5.5
1.3
1.5
0.5
0.9
1.5
9.8

ynh

08-06-2013, 10:40 PM

Youre a complete fucking retard if you are going to actually sit here and try and compare Pippens first two years and leanord and use that as a basis of saying he could turn into pippen. That is straight up the dumbest shit ive read in a long time and will assume that you are either the biggest retarded fanboy on here or you just got into basketball this postseason and have never seen pippen play.

Btw you serious have malone and stickton on your top list but no zeke or pippen?

DMC

08-06-2013, 11:01 PM

Leonard will be a solid player of the Rip Hamilton caliber. He will never be top 100 of all time, much less top 30.

Grit and Grind

08-06-2013, 11:08 PM

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/heh.png This motherfucker right here

DMC

08-06-2013, 11:18 PM

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/heh.png This motherfucker right here

Next time bet they let Tony eat so they stick around a bit longer eh?

Rogue

08-07-2013, 12:34 AM

Leonard will be a solid player of the Rip Hamilton caliber. He will never be top 100 of all time, much less top 30.
Truth bomb. People who said Kawhi would be the future face of this franchise were legitimately fooling themselves. It truly takes a similar level of education as ours in order for one to live outside the state of delusion imho. Kawhi is a solid role player and will slightly improve his game to establish himself as a borderline superstar like the prime Josh Howard, but nothing better than that will he ever be.

spurraider21

08-07-2013, 02:09 AM

Prime josh howard was putting up 19-20 points on 45-46% shooting while averaging like 2 assists a game. thats not a borderline superstar, thats a borderline all star

AchillesHeel

08-07-2013, 02:31 AM

Damn I got some niggas good here :hat

Anyways, Kawhi has the tools to be a modern day Pippen with his size and his weight, he keeps improving his J and Spurs actually run plays for him and he'll be much better than people here think. He's only 22 and he put up 14.6 points 11.2 reb 2.0 stls against Lebron in the Finals on 51,8% FG. He actually got to play 36 minutes per game and he actually got the ball more as opposed to in the regular season and he played big. A missed free throw to seal the championship will only motivate him further to get back on the Finals stage and win a ring. This boy will be an all-star and for years to come, after Lebron and KD (with KD being a potential top 20 all-time player) you can't name me a better SF. Jimmy Butler was nice and he will definitely be there with Kawhi next season, Batum is overrated because he plays on a shit team and scores 14 points on 42% shooting, horrible.

The Spurs are not going away, baby.

AchillesHeel

08-07-2013, 02:32 AM

Oh and Melo doesn't count, Kawhi could score 25 ppg if he took 30 shots a game too.

lefty

08-07-2013, 02:38 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BC36ZOyCIAE0ykQ.jpg:large

AchillesHeel

08-07-2013, 02:49 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVY15CHD6FQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRFbug05aFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAZEzxCG-xs

Killakobe81

08-07-2013, 11:05 AM

Buddy Mignon

08-07-2013, 12:20 PM

I like KL, going back to college, and I think he will be good. The Finals (his performance even with the FT miss) was impressive. But top 30 is doubtful. As someone else mentioned top 30 puts you in Drexler/Pierce range. Not sure he will be better than either. Also Isiah continues to get an appalling lack of respect. I just watched Mchale's 56 point game (1985) and Isiah was easily the second best player in that game and Larry Legend was playing in that game too. No, I dont think Thomas is better than Bird, but dont see how Isiah is not at least equal to or better than Stockton. Taking Stock over Isiah on the the OG Dream Team still puzzles many NB A fans of that era. It is considered one of the more ugly stains on Mj's legacy because he was considered the impetus for it ...

Zeke was light years better than Stockton. Zeke went through Bird, MJ, Magic, and Drexler in their primes. I got Zeke borderline top 10 and that Bad Boys team top 5. The worst part about him not making the Olympics was his coach and Magic going along for the ride and not saying shit about the snub. Zeke was like the 2pac of the NBA... the most loved and most hated.

Buddy Mignon

08-07-2013, 12:21 PM

Oh... and Leonard is just another dime a dozen role player. No one here should even try and debate this.

DMC

08-07-2013, 04:27 PM

Zeke gave Magic the HIV, that's a fact.

Baam

08-07-2013, 04:41 PM

Oh... and Leonard is just another dime a dozen role player. No one here should even try and debate this.

Unless he signs with the Lakers of course :lol...

Rogue

08-07-2013, 07:01 PM

Oh and Melo doesn't count, Kawhi could score 25 ppg if he took 30 shots a game too.
with his current FG%, yes. But when you become the primary score on your team and the opposing teams start to pay intensive care on you defensively, your efficiency will drop considerably. He would still average about 20pts a game out of 30 shots, but that ain't very impressive and the spurs wouldn't benefit from Kawhi playing that way. It ain't just the number of shots that makes one player look like an elite scorer (except Achilles though), and I believe Kawhi's ceiling ain't much higher than the prime Gerald Wallace or Josh Howard

Ashy Larry

08-08-2013, 02:36 AM

OP left off two zeros. Braided head faggot cost the Spurs a fifth ring.

Buddy Mignon

08-08-2013, 07:51 AM

OP left off two zeros. Braided head faggot cost the Spurs a fifth ring.

Karma pinched him on the ass. He was the idiot that refused to throw the ball in to a wide open Diaw for fear of Diaw getting fouled and missing the free throws. After that timeout he was the last option and was basically running from the ball but Jim had to get it in. I knew the twank would choke the moment he was fouled.

Kool Bob Love

08-16-2013, 10:23 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIwxIobtab4

AchillesHeel

08-17-2013, 03:43 AM

Karma pinched him on the ass. He was the idiot that refused to throw the ball in to a wide open Diaw for fear of Diaw getting fouled and missing the free throws. After that timeout he was the last option and was basically running from the ball but Jim had to get it in. I knew the twank would choke the moment he was fouled.

And your boy Kirby never cost his team a series, airballs vs Utah, choking 3 - 1 lead vs Suns, 2004 Finals, 2008 Finals Games 4 and 6...

Every all-time great has had their share of playoff failures, it's a part of the game. Lebron choked away 2 Finals, Kirby choked away 2 Finals, Michael is GOAT so obviously he doesn't choke in the Finals, Magic choked in the Finals, Kawhi choked in the Finals(one missed free throw, everyone misses FTs, he isn't the best FT shooter neither).

Buddy Mignon

08-17-2013, 10:50 AM

And your boy Kirby never cost his team a series, airballs vs Utah, choking 3 - 1 lead vs Suns, 2004 Finals, 2008 Finals Games 4 and 6...

Every all-time great has had their share of playoff failures, it's a part of the game. Lebron choked away 2 Finals, Kirby choked away 2 Finals, Michael is GOAT so obviously he doesn't choke in the Finals, Magic choked in the Finals, Kawhi choked in the Finals(one missed free throw, everyone misses FTs, he isn't the best FT shooter neither).

Losing and choking are two different things. Magic did choke. Duncan did choke. Kobe missing shots in a series that was over is not choking. He did tank in a 7th game against the Suns to prove a point to the management that he needed more help. And it worked. The Leonard kid is a scrub with retard genes in him.

AchillesHeel

08-17-2013, 11:43 AM

Losing and choking are two different things. Magic did choke. Duncan did choke. Kobe missing shots in a series that was over is not choking. He did tank in a 7th game against the Suns to prove a point to the management that he needed more help. And it worked. The Leonard kid is a scrub with retard genes in him.

A scrub that averaged 14.6 points 11.2 rebounds 2 stls in the NBA Finals

AchillesHeel

06-16-2014, 12:02 AM

sup niggas

Thread

06-16-2014, 12:05 AM

sup niggas

Your mother's ass crack.

AchillesHeel

04-23-2015, 11:45 AM

Champion
Finals MVP
Defensive Player of the year

and possibly another title + FMVP this year.

I done told y'all 2 years ago.

Infinite_limit

04-23-2015, 12:41 PM

Leonard would be mighty fine coming off the Bulls bench

Arnold Toht

04-23-2015, 12:46 PM

He's a retard, but, he can carry Jim on his back for sure.

apalisoc_9

10-17-2015, 03:49 PM

:wow

Op on pace and even more.

and the idiots that laughed at him :lmao

Silver&Black

10-17-2015, 03:53 PM

I like how Naruto sat through the meeting, listened to their concerns and was like..."Okay, fuck y'all...I'm getting ramen."

Take that, you little pissants! Naruto, the GREATEST HERO IN KONOHA HISTORY don't give a shit about your petty concerns. Get him some ramen and get the fuck outta' his way!

This is the Naruto I missed. The arrogant a-hole that does shit cause he feels like it. The safety of the village hangs in the balance? Screw you! I gotsta get me some noodles!

:wow

:worthy: ElNono

KobeOwnsDuncan

04-10-2016, 08:27 PM

:lmao

KobeOwnsDuncan

05-12-2016, 10:11 PM

:lol

AchillesHeel

05-12-2016, 10:13 PM

2x DPOY
1x NBA Champion
1x Finals MVP

age 24

AchillesHeel

11-04-2016, 07:36 PM

:lol

32/5/4 3.4 stls 51/41/96 shooting through the 1st 5 games and is 4 - 1 as the leader of his team now that Timmy's gone

how is the snitch doing, btw?

BD24

11-04-2016, 09:58 PM

Someone who actually called Kawhi amazing early and actually has the proof to back it up :bobo

spurraider21

11-04-2016, 10:16 PM

Leonard will be a solid player of the Rip Hamilton caliber. He will never be top 100 of all time, much less top 30.
oh

DMC

11-05-2016, 12:32 AM

oh

He's not top 100 all time right now.

spurraider21

11-05-2016, 01:02 AM

He will never be top 100 of all time

He's not top 100 all time right now.

http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/lockerroom/movinggoalpost.gif

apalisoc_9

11-05-2016, 01:07 AM

Hes already top 100..stupid to think he isnt. He will be the greatest player of all time when its all said and done.

spurraider21

11-05-2016, 01:30 AM

Hes already top 100..
agreed. some modern players that cracked espn's top 100 all time list... kevin love, james harden, chauncey billups, vince carter, tony parker, carmelo anthony. to name a few

He will be the greatest player of all time when its all said and done.
lol

apalisoc_9

11-05-2016, 01:43 AM

Called him a superstar since day 1..But go ahead and laugh when he's on the heels of becoming the GOAT

TDMVPDPOY

11-05-2016, 01:52 AM

he atm is around top15-20...

championship
fmvp
2dpoy

how many in the 15-20 range has that? jackshit

spurraider21

11-05-2016, 01:52 AM

Called him a superstar since day 1..But go ahead and laugh when he's on the heels of becoming the GOATyou only got on his nuts after the 2013 finals when he stepped up to lebron

midnightpulp

11-05-2016, 01:54 AM

he atm is around top15-20...

championship
fmvp
2dpoy

how many in the 15-20 range has that? jackshit

You watching the Test cricket match against South Africa, bro?

jehawk81

11-05-2016, 02:06 AM

Called him a superstar since day 1..But go ahead and laugh when he's on the heels of becoming the GOAT

Glad we didn't trade him for Ariza & Beal :downspin::downspin::downspin:

TDMVPDPOY

11-05-2016, 02:07 AM

You watching the Test cricket match against South Africa, bro?

nah i dont watch cricket man its fkn boring

DMC

11-05-2016, 02:12 AM

http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/lockerroom/movinggoalpost.gif

Bullshit. I said he won't be top 100 all time. He's not, where's the argument?

You leaving out your "oh" which was a passive aggressive attempt at saying my statement was wrong, now you've moved the goal posts, as if the point of my statement was "right now" vs "never" instead of "isn't" vs "won't be".

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 02:17 AM

If the OP had called this two years sooner, I'd give him gigantic props. This was pretty callable (even if not the popular opinion) at that time.

DAF86

11-05-2016, 02:32 AM

Kawhi just needs another finals MVP to be better than the 12th best player of all time, tbh.

So yeah, I would say top 30 all time is fair.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 02:33 AM

Kawhi just needs another finals MVP to be better than the 12th best player of all time, tbh.

So yeah, I would say top 30 all time is fair.

Don't understand this mentality at all. Kobe has a lot more hardware than Paul Pierce. Is he that much more dominant if at all?

DAF86

11-05-2016, 02:36 AM

Don't understand this mentality at all. Kobe has a lot more hardware than Paul Pierce. Is he that much more dominant if at all?

Don't know what the fuck you are saying, but yeah, Kobe Bryant is better than Paul fucking Pierce.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 09:08 AM

Don't know what the fuck you are saying, but yeah, Kobe Bryant is better than Paul fucking Pierce.

Not really, bro. And you don't know b/c you can't think. My point was clear as fucking day.

Leetonidas

11-05-2016, 09:57 AM

Kobe clearly shits on Paul pierce so I'm not sure what you meant either :lol

Brazil

11-05-2016, 01:13 PM

http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/lockerroom/movinggoalpost.gif

:lmao

Brazil

11-05-2016, 01:14 PM

:lmao rip Hamilton

Molotov

11-05-2016, 01:38 PM

Not really, bro. And you don't know b/c you can't think. My point was clear as fucking day.

What do you expect from 3rd world Argie?, they lucky to get a/c and clean water, nevermind thinking.

DAF86

11-05-2016, 01:48 PM

Not really, bro. And you don't know b/c you can't think. My point was clear as fucking day.

I was drunk as fuck, tbh. But still Kobe >>> Pierce.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 02:36 PM

I was drunk as fuck, tbh. But still Kobe >>> Pierce.

To me, it's about the same; some would even argue Pierce is better. The point is Kobe has way way more hardware. Trophy counting is kinda a sh** way to measure. We all do it at times I guess though.

DAF86

11-05-2016, 03:26 PM

To me, it's about the same; some would even argue Pierce is better. The point is Kobe has way way more hardware. Trophy counting is kinda a sh** way to measure. We all do it at times I guess though.

I have never talked about team rings, tbh. Just individual awards.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 04:17 PM

I have never talked about team rings, tbh. Just individual awards.

Individual awards are sh**. Look at Kobe vs. Pierce defensive stats and then look at how the defensive awards stack up. It's not as egregious, but you can make the comparisons on the all-nba awards too. The awards are marketing tools not awards of merit. If they were, Kobe never would've been all defensive any sh**.

DAF86

11-05-2016, 04:28 PM

Individual awards are sh**. Look at Kobe vs. Pierce defensive stats and then look at how the defensive awards stack up. It's not as egregious, but you can make the comparisons on the all-nba awards too. The awards are marketing tools not awards of merit. If they were, Kobe never would've been all defensive any sh**.

All defensive team is a joke. We all know that.

But MVP's and finals MVP's aren't. And those individual awards are a good measure to compare individual players.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 05:28 PM

All defensive team is a joke. We all know that.

But MVP's and finals MVP's aren't. And those individual awards are a good measure to compare individual players.

They aren't? 08 Kobe wasn't MVP. They ripped it from KG to give him a lifetime achievement / pity MVP. Bird lost an MVP to Jordan for marketing purposes. D Rose lost an MVP to Lebron so that the league could sell better in Chicago.

Clipper Nation

11-05-2016, 05:36 PM

They aren't? 08 Kobe wasn't MVP. They ripped it from KG to give him a lifetime achievement / pity MVP. Bird lost an MVP to Jordan for marketing purposes. D Rose lost an MVP to Lebron so that the league could sell better in Chicago.
:lol What? It's true that Kobe didn't deserve the 2008 MVP, but KG didn't either. Choke Paul and LeBron actually got robbed that year. Bird was a fraud who needed Stern to tell all the black players to go easy on him for marketing purposes. D-Blose was handed a pity MVP over LeBron because Media's hate for LeBron was at an all-time high in 2011.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 06:06 PM

Glad we didn't trade him for Ariza & Beal :downspin::downspin::downspin:

He made other trade Kawhi for sh** threads too.

Spurtacular

11-05-2016, 06:13 PM

:lol What? It's true that Kobe didn't deserve the 2008 MVP, but KG didn't either. Choke Paul and LeBron actually got robbed that year. Bird was a fraud who needed Stern to tell all the black players to go easy on him for marketing purposes. D-Blose was handed a pity MVP over LeBron because Media's hate for LeBron was at an all-time high in 2011.

Not worried about your racist hack opinions on Bird; so covering 08, KG was the anchor of a historically solid defense while playing at a great clip on offense. Not saying there wasn't a case for others, but I'm not tearing the MVP away from a guy leading a team to 68 wins for face value stat stuffers.

daslicer

11-05-2016, 10:26 PM

At the rate he plays against the Clippers I can't see that happening.

AchillesHeel

02-11-2017, 01:42 AM

Not worried about your racist hack opinions on Bird; so covering 08, KG was the anchor of a historically solid defense while playing at a great clip on offense. Not saying there wasn't a case for others, but I'm not tearing the MVP away from a guy leading a team to 68 wins for face value stat stuffers.

Kobe played all 82 games, Celtics still won at a high rate without KG in those 11 GMs to a tune of 9 - 2, tbh..

apalisoc_9

02-11-2017, 02:04 AM

Kawhi is Destined to ve the GOAT.

Spurtacular

02-11-2017, 03:33 AM

Kobe played all 82 games, Celtics still won at a high rate without KG in those 11 GMs to a tune of 9 - 2, tbh..

KG rested on the very winnable games. PP and RA weren't going to go at a 9-2 rate for a season w/o KG. Kobe wasn't top 2 either. That was a lifetime achievement award.

Robz4000

02-11-2017, 03:34 AM

At this point, I wouldn't disagree especially if he continues to grow like he has every season.

Arcadian

02-11-2017, 04:43 AM

Good call

AchillesHeel

02-11-2017, 05:28 AM

KG rested on the very winnable games. PP and RA weren't going to go at a 9-2 rate for a season w/o KG. Kobe wasn't top 2 either. That was a lifetime achievement award.

KG had a stacked roster, Kobe had the #1 seed with zero all-star teammates, Bynum went down a month before Pau trade Kirby deserved it...

In total both had the same amount of RS wins but KG's supporting cast would have won 50+ without him. He missed 25 games in 09 they still won 62. 18 - 7 without him - 59 win pace.

MVP goes to the best player on a top seed, it's safe to say he earned it after beating my Spurs and NO in April for HCA

Spurtacular

02-11-2017, 05:54 AM

KG had a stacked roster, Kobe had the #1 seed with zero all-star teammates, Bynum went down a month before Pau trade Kirby deserved it...

In total both had the same amount of RS wins but KG's supporting cast would have won 50+ without him. He missed 25 games in 09 they still won 62. 18 - 7 without him - 59 win pace.

MVP goes to the best player on a top seed, it's safe to say he earned it after beating my Spurs and NO in April for HCA

Frankly, Kobe didn't even deserve it over Pierce. 08 was a lifetime achievement award. And the Lakers got the one seed b/c of Pau's arrival, not b/c Kobe did anything extra special.

AchillesHeel

02-11-2017, 08:55 AM

Frankly, Kobe didn't even deserve it over Pierce. 08 was a lifetime achievement award. And the Lakers got the one seed b/c of Pau's arrival, not b/c Kobe did anything extra special.

Lakers were on a 56 win pace with 20 y.o Bynum in Pau's place that season

Pierce averaged ~20/5/5

Kobe 28/6/5

and 27/7/6 on 49/49/83 shooting in key games in April that decided their seeding

His PO run validated his MVP as they went 13 - 3 in the WC Playoffs with him putting up 32/6/6 on 51%FG, the only other real MVP candidate CP3 lost to the Spurs at home in a Game 7 :lol

IDK why people want to re-write history but he was the clear-cut MVP that year.

Spurtacular

02-11-2017, 01:19 PM

Lakers were on a 56 win pace with 20 y.o Bynum in Pau's place that season

Pierce averaged ~20/5/5

Kobe 28/6/5

and 27/7/6 on 49/49/83 shooting in key games in April that decided their seeding

His PO run validated his MVP as they went 13 - 3 in the WC Playoffs with him putting up 32/6/6 on 51%FG, the only other real MVP candidate CP3 lost to the Spurs at home in a Game 7 :lol

IDK why people want to re-write history but he was the clear-cut MVP that year.

Pierce had better percents and better play and sacrificed stat stuffing for the team. Bynum was still a top center. I don't care how old he was; and adding Pau only synched it. KG and Pierce's playoff runs validated them. How many points did Kobe lose by in Game 6, a closeout game? Remind me again?

And again, if we're putting that much of an emphasis on stats, Kobe is not top 2 either:

PPG Leader: LeBron James (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) (30.0)
RPG Leader: Dwight Howard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html) (14.2)
APG Leader: Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) (11.6)
WS Leader: Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) (17.8)

And what were Kobe's Lakers before Pau got there? Like 4 or 5 seed? So give that up. Don't tell me about rewriting history. Kobe had no business winning the MVP that year. KG revolutionized the league that year. But he had an MVP and the beloved Kobe didn't. We all know what happened.

ambchang

02-11-2017, 02:39 PM

AchillesHeel

02-14-2017, 08:44 AM

In 2008, gasol and Bynum both had better WS/48 than Kobe but Kobe did lead the team in WS though. That's why the lakers didn't win it all because we all know when Kobe leads the team in we, the team won't win the championship.

Do you not understand how stats work, or how WS works?

Both Pau and Bynum played with Kobe, Kobe went a month stretch playing without either, so obviously the team overall was much worse when they missed their best big man.

Pau in Memphis was going to miss the Playoffs with a better supporting cast than Kobe had at the time

And Kobe led the 2001 Lakers in Winshares in the Playoffs, by your argument he was the most valuable player on the most dominant Playoff team of all-time.

All I know is that Pau Gasol was 0 - 16 in the Playoffs without Kobe leading up to 2014 before he went to a Playoff team in Chicago

Why is it so hard for people to give Achilles his one MVP? He led his team to the top seed in the West with less help than CP0 or Duncan and outplayed both H2H in April in games that decided their seeding, he's an overrated chucker but he did do these things you know.

AchillesHeel

02-14-2017, 08:58 AM

Pierce had better percents and better play and sacrificed stat stuffing for the team. Bynum was still a top center. I don't care how old he was; and adding Pau only synched it. KG and Pierce's playoff runs validated them. How many points did Kobe lose by in Game 6, a closeout game? Remind me again?

And again, if we're putting that much of an emphasis on stats, Kobe is not top 2 either:

PPG Leader: LeBron James (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) (30.0)
RPG Leader: Dwight Howard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html) (14.2)
APG Leader: Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) (11.6)
WS Leader: Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) (17.8)

And what were Kobe's Lakers before Pau got there? Like 4 or 5 seed? So give that up. Don't tell me about rewriting history. Kobe had no business winning the MVP that year. KG revolutionized the league that year. But he had an MVP and the beloved Kobe didn't. We all know what happened.

KG missed 11 regular season games in which his team went 9 - 2, next season in the 25 games he missed his team was still on pace to win ~60 games in those games without him, how can the most valuable player in the league miss over a quarter of the season and the team only wins 4 less RS games? Neither of them carried the load on offense that Kobe did, in Boston you had 3 HOFers together with a young Rondo and a solid bench, that team was loaded, for obvious reasons it's why neither deserved the MVP considering they had to do much less.

Chris Paul had a great statistical season but when it came down to playing for the #1 seed Kobe strongly outplayed him

29/10/8/2 1 TO on 9/17 shooting vs 15/6/17/4 3 TO on 4/13 shooting

Celtics won as they should since they had a much better team that year, but we saw them play like contenders even with KG injured, went 7 games with Orlando in 2009, Howard only averaged 16 ppg against that defense minus KG.

ambchang

02-15-2017, 05:27 PM

Do you not understand how stats work, or how WS works?

Both Pau and Bynum played with Kobe, Kobe went a month stretch playing without either, so obviously the team overall was much worse when they missed their best big man.

WS measures the impact a player has on the team. Never mind that of the best 4 man lineup the Lakers saw that season didn't have Kobe in it. Neither did the best three man line up , nor the 2nd best three man lineup.

Never mind Kobe finished 7th on this own team in ORating that year, or 10th in Drating.

Kobe was only slightly ahead of Gasol in BPM, and ahead of Gasol in VORP purely because of games played.

Pau in Memphis was going to miss the Playoffs with a better supporting cast than Kobe had at the time

How in the world was having Bynum, and Odom worse than having Rudy Gay and Mike Miller?

And Kobe led the 2001 Lakers in Winshares in the Playoffs, by your argument he was the most valuable player on the most dominant Playoff team of all-time.

Except that was the playoffs, where matchups play a huge role. Kobe was matching up Steve Smith while Shaq was battling Duncan and Robinson. That made a difference. Over the course of the season when you play all kinds of teams is when ws provides an accurate review of a players' worth on his own team.

All I know is that Pau Gasol was 0 - 16 in the Playoffs without Kobe leading up to 2014 before he went to a Playoff team in Chicago

All I know is that Kobe missed the playoffs without the most dominant frontline in the league. 4 times.

To penalize Gasol for the playoff failures because he over achieved and dragged these horrible teams to the playoffs is hilarious.

Why is it so hard for people to give Achilles his one MVP? He led his team to the top seed in the West with less help than CP0 or Duncan and outplayed both H2H in April in games that decided their seeding, he's an overrated chucker but he did do these things you know.

Why is it so hard to see Gasol, Odom and Bynum was a matchup nightmare for every single team in the league?

Duncan didn't deserve 08 for sure, it should have been CP3 or Lebron that year.

PopTheGOAT

02-16-2017, 12:37 PM

Kawhi is Destined to ve the GOAT.
I wanna stop you right there, but I'm not even gonna think about doubting Kawhi at this point. I don't see him ever cracking the top 10 but I could see top 15-20. But who knows? Spurs could add another key piece and win 2-3 more during his career.

DAF86

02-17-2017, 04:50 PM

Already making top 50 lists at age 25. :lol

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266548&p=8906634#post8906634

Thomas82

02-17-2017, 05:07 PM

Already making top 50 lists at age 25. :lol

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266548&p=8906634#post8906634

I was just about to post this.

ambchang

02-17-2017, 05:14 PM

DAF86

02-17-2017, 05:43 PM

That was a horrible list.
Too high:
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
Garnett
Pippen
Wade
Curry
Nash
Durant
Paul
Cousy
Kawhi
Parker
Ray Allen
Laimbeer (WTF?)
Marion
Amare

Too low:
Kareem
Shaq
Barkley
Robertson
Isiah
Dr. J
Robinson
Mchale
Stockton

Some of the choices are just full blown retarded.

In what planet Duncan at 7 is too high? The 5 to 8 range is where he deserves to be, imho. And Hakeem should be top 10, he's 11. He isn't too high.