If Pippen Won 2 Finals MVPs After Jordan: GOAT?

[DMC]

I say no. His body of work has to be considered compared to MJ's. That would leave Scotty with 8 rings and 2 Finals MVP awards. That's 3 more rings than Kobe and the same MVP awards.

Ergo how can anyone honestly consider Kobe in the same sentence with Michael Jordan where "will never be" isn't used?

[Rogue]

Probably not imho, unless he played and won those Finals MVPs in LA or NY. The whole GOAT hype shit was heated up by the media, and the best guide to lead you out of a maze is the maze's maker. Even some insignificant scrubs could get some of the world's finest because just caused they played in LA or NY, and I'm not salty as you know I don't give a flying fuck about any woman not named Scarlett Johansson

[Katherine Robinson]

Who, exactly, is attempting to say Kobe Bryant is the greatest of all time and not working under an unspoken agenda ("trolling", media circus, etc)?

[Amaso]

It's not just about titles. Scottie Pippen talent wise (offensive/defensive) is a top 15-30 player depending on who you are talking to. He was a superstar, but not someone who could dominate the league like most top 10 players did and could.

Kobe is a top 5 unquestionable talent, whether or not you want to put him in the top 5 is based on personal preference or bias. It's a pretty terrible comparison, and it was obvious where you were going with it from the thread title.

Now, if Pippen had upped his game to top 10 all-time level for a couple of years post Jordan (hypothetically)... then yeah he'd probably be considered close to the GOAT, but that's such a silly and extreme hyperbole it's not even worth discussing.

[Josepatches_]

"a pretty terrible comparison" is MJ vs Kobe

[DMC]

It's not just about titles. Scottie Pippen talent wise (offensive/defensive) is a top 15-30 player depending on who you are talking to. He was a superstar, but not someone who could dominate the league like most top 10 players did and could.

Kobe is a top 5 unquestionable talent, whether or not you want to put him in the top 5 is based on personal preference or bias. It's a pretty terrible comparison, and it was obvious where you were going with it from the thread title.

Now, if Pippen had upped his game to top 10 all-time level for a couple of years post Jordan (hypothetically)... then yeah he'd probably be considered close to the GOAT, but that's such a silly and extreme hyperbole it's not even worth discussing.

So Kobe gets 3 titles as a second fiddle and 2 MVPs equaling 5 titles and he's better than an 8 title/2 MVP winning player who was 2nd fiddle to the GOAT?

lol "close to the GOAT".

You're calling Kobe a top 5 all time. If he got one more ring you'd likely call him the GOAT. You're basing this on his titles but Pippen cannot use the same argument because of his stats, yet Kobe's stats aren't that great across the board. He's a scorer, but that's about it.

[Venti Quattro]

Who, exactly, is attempting to say Kobe Bryant is the greatest of all time and not working under an unspoken agenda ("trolling", media circus, etc)?

[Rogue]

Dirk only has one ring and one Finals MVP so far but he's still a top 10 player of all time, or top 15 at least. Jordan was the undubitable GOAT who overshadowed even a top 30 all time player that Pippen was. While Kobe and Shaq were roughly equal-weighed on that 00-02 team, not physically weighed you know of course, basically head to shoulder imho. Shaq might be the better player on that team and won 3 MVPs in a row but the gap wasn't nearly as big as that between Pippen and MJ. DMC's paradox failed itself yet again imho.

[Katherine Robinson]

"a pretty terrible comparison" is MJ vs Kobe

Or United States basketball vs Spanish basketball

[Kidd K]

It's not just about titles. Scottie Pippen talent wise (offensive/defensive) is a top 15-30 player depending on who you are talking to. He was a superstar, but not someone who could dominate the league like most top 10 players did and could.

Kobe is a top 5 unquestionable talent, whether or not you want to put him in the top 5 is based on personal preference or bias. It's a pretty terrible comparison, and it was obvious where you were going with it from the thread title.

Now, if Pippen had upped his game to top 10 all-time level for a couple of years post Jordan (hypothetically)... then yeah he'd probably be considered close to the GOAT, but that's such a silly and extreme hyperbole it's not even worth discussing.

It actually is questionable, and it's really lazy to debase all arguments against it as "just based on bias and/or personal preference". That statement is just hyperbole, it holds no weight.

I disagree that he's a top 5 talent, and it isn't because of bias or personal preference at all. It's because I think the real top 5 guys all had a greater impact on the game and were as successful as Kobe in terms of winning and accolades. Won just as much (or more), and had a greater floor impact. How can they not be rated above Kobe?

I'm referring to:

Jordan
Russell
Jabaar
Johnson
Shaq
Duncan

All were as successful as Kobe or moreso. All had a greater impact on the game than Kobe. Then there are the guys many say they'd take above Kobe anyway, like Bird, Wilt, and Hakeem. Hakeem and Wilt had a greater impact on the game than Kobe too, but were in less fortunate circumstances so weren't able to win as much.

I don't think you'd be claiming Kobe as an "unquestionable" top 5 if you watched all those guys play (and all the others from the 80's and 90's). Having 5 rings doesn't instantly and magically set him above everyone with less than 5 rings. After all, Horry and Fisher aren't better than Kobe and they have a ton of rings. Pippen has 6 and isn't better than Kobe. Rings aren't the only thing that matters. And when it comes to non-ring attributes, Kobe falls short of most of the other guys I listed imo.