Immortality.... your thoughts?

[phyzik]

Some major scientist and futurists (Ray Kurzweil, Michio Kaku, ect..) believe that there is a human alive today, possibly in their 60's, that will live to see 150 years old due to advances in the IT medical fields (ie. the Genome project, The CGP, and other studies). The belief is that technology is advancing at a faster rate than people are aging and the thought of immortality is possible within this generations lifetime. Ray Kurzweil predicts 2045 as the date when we will be able to achieve immortality. For those that don't know who Ray Kurzweil is, do your own research and see what this man has done in the past and come to your own conclusions. Regardless, he is probably one of the smartest people alive today and has proven himself several times over.

Beyond all that speculation and prediction though, my question is this...

If you could live for as long as you wanted to... assuming you could stay the same age as you are now, or even reverse the aging process to a time you deem best, How long would that be? Consider that you will see countless loved ones die while you live on for hundreds of years... Consider having to constantly re-educate yourself with new fundamental thoughts on just about everything you know today... But also consider how much you could learn in that time... consider what it would mean to be able to witness humanity as a whole develop into our future (think of how your great grandparents or grandparents must have felt going from horse carriages to automobiles, to cell phones and the internet in just a few decades) ... I'm not here to judge people on their thoughts, I just generally want to know what people think about the prospect of living for as long as you want without the "growing old" part.

Posit: You could stay your current age, or even have your age reduced a few years and actually stay at that age due to nano technology or some other means.... Now, you could still obviously be killed by a traumatizing incident such as a gun shot to the head or a horrific accident, but otherwise could live on forever if you took basic care of yourself...






Personally, I am an atheist as many of you already know. The thought of death doesn't frighten me... its just the way it is right now.... but the thought of being able to see the advancement of human achievement 100, 200, 500 even 1000 years from where we are now is just too tempting to me. I'd jump on the bandwagon in a heartbeat!

It's been several months since this was published, but I recently re-watched it and this is what compelled me to ask this question on Spurstalk. It's a long, but very interesting video, with mainly just Ray Kurzweil but also includes Michio Kaku at the end when questions are posed to them. If you are interested in stuff like IT advancement (more than "Moore's Law") I highly recommend watching it. It is quite interesting.

H4axEZwLdno

[lefty]

Lol yeah right

[anakha]

This reminds me of the story of Tithonus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus) in Greek Mythology.

Long life is useless if you're not able to fully experience it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its possible with the way you can GM modify babies now b4 they are even born

then u need to be fkn healthy through out ur life not gettin into any of those old age diseases and shit to live that long...

hence why do you want immortality if ur a commoner to continue that 9-5 job slaving away whatever it is?

[The Reckoning]

not unless you could work into your 100s....imagine the cost of welfare

[Koolaid_Man]

at some point in the future...if white's can be enslaved to level the playing field...then it just might be worth it to stick around...

[lil'mo]

That's fucking stupid

phyzik, you're fucking stupid

[silverblk mystix]

Unfortunately - and sorry to sound negative - but...humans are fucking up the planet and their life spans are 70-100 ish years...

Giving them longer lifespans will accelerate the destruction of the planet - no thanks.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I won't be in favor of this unless they develop some sort of technology in parallel with it that will make it possible to shoot lightning bolts and make all glass around me shatter.

[Blake]

I would hook myself up to a solar powered, never ending virtual reality.

[Blake]

Unfortunately - and sorry to sound negative - but...humans are fucking up the planet and their life spans are 70-100 ish years...

Giving them longer lifespans will accelerate the destruction of the planet - no thanks.



Don't worry, I'm sure somewhere in the future that prisons on Mars will still need anal probers

[The Reckoning]

I would hook myself up to a solar powered, never ending virtual reality.


interesting concept imo. they could make an artificial heaven.


dibs on the book rights.

[The Reckoning]

but then that'd be too mainstream. thanks matrix ya wanker.

[ElMuerto]

Meh...it ain't all that.

[RD2191]

:lmao

[silverblk mystix]

Don't worry, I'm sure somewhere in the future that prisons on Mars will still need anal probers

Thank Christ...

On the other hand - If people reduce themselves now to being professional Cucks - imagine what kind of depravity they will resort to if allowed to live a longer depraved lifespan.

Lord.

No thanks.

[Big Empty]

interesting. people in the bible lived 100's of years. these scientist sound as silly as the people that wrote the bibles.

[Suspect]

I wouldnt mind being able to live forever with my current form of body but that's because im not a fat messican tbh

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only immortality is being dead in ur dreams...

imagine ur having some wet dream and you end up dead, a wet dream for eternity?

[2pac > Kobe]

no way am i staying in this shithole for more than 65 years

[philldafunk]

Mind uploading is a very real possibility, but if your body is dead and your mind is running in some sort of computer environment is that "really" you?

[cantthinkofanything]

Mind uploading is a very real possibility, but if your body is dead and your mind is running in some sort of computer environment is that "really" you?

I can't of a better place to pose that question than SpursTalk.

:rolleyes

[rascal]

I believe it is better on the other side so I am anxious to see what is on the other side of death. This place is just not all that great to want to stick around any more than 75 years.

[Blake]

I believe it is better on the other side so I am anxious to see what is on the other side of death. This place is just not all that great to want to stick around any more than 75 years.

You must not know any 75 year old people

[Blake]

Thank Christ...

On the other hand - If people reduce themselves now to being professional Cucks - imagine what kind of depravity they will resort to if allowed to live a longer depraved lifespan.

Lord.

No thanks.

I'm pretty sure that even if you tried, you wouldn't be able to make that post make any less sense

[silverblk mystix]

:cry Cucks have feelings too!!!

[DMC]

I don't even want the 80 or so years we get now. If you think music is shitty now, just wait a hundred years. If you think new generations are annoying as hell now, just wait a few generations.

No thanks.

[DMC]

I can't of a better place to pose that question than SpursTalk.

:rolleyes

Yeah but you can't think of anything so no shocker there.

[Rogue]

Only the adherence to God will give you immortality tbh. Science will probably help extend your life but there'll still be a limit imho, while the spiritual power comes with no limits. Like how it worked out for Zhang Sangfeng, who was an avid Taoist believing in Taoism (Laozi being his "God"). Dude lived past his 200th birthday as rumors said, and he's maybe still alive

[lefty]

Only the adherence to God will give you immortality tbh. Science will probably help extend your life but there'll still be a limit imho, while the spiritual power comes with no limits. Like how it worked out for Zhang Sangfeng, who was an avid Taoist believing in Taoism (Laozi being his "God"). Dude lived past his 200th birthday as rumors said, and he's maybe still alive
Your Goddess is immortal

[Rogue]

I don't even want the 80 or so years we get now. If you think music is shitty now, just wait a hundred years. If you think new generations are annoying as hell now, just wait a few generations.

No thanks.
You don't yet know how awful a thing death is bro. Those TOSBs who knew they were soon about to die were scared as fuck. they couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, they were constantly hassled by the fear of being forgotten by their children within just a few years of their death. The fear of being "forgotten" might be most scary part of death imho, even more than the physical pain experienced when you're dying

[Rogue]

Your Goddess is immortal

True, thanks :toast

I want to live an eternal life but I think that would be meaningless if I'm to live another 100 years with my goddess sleeping in a "big old tomb on grand street". So if i can figure out a way to eternal life I'll share the knowledge with my goddess before anyone, tbh.

[DMC]

You don't yet know how awful a thing death is bro. Those TOSBs who knew they were soon about to die were scared as fuck. they couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, they were constantly hassled by the fear of being forgotten by their children within just a few years of their death. The fear of being "forgotten" might be most scary part of death imho, even more than the physical pain experienced when you're dying

I don't long for death, I just don't fear it and I don't feel greedy enough about life that I want to live forever. It's like a movie, you've seen it, exit through the rear, why stay for another showing?

I don't want to live to be old as fuck. If I cannot take care of myself, I might as well be dead.

[Rogue]

I don't long for death, I just don't fear it and I don't feel greedy enough about life that I want to live forever. It's like a movie, you've seen it, exit through the rear, why stay for another showing?

I don't want to live to be old as fuck. If I cannot take care of myself, I might as well be dead.
A man is as old as he feels though, as the old proverb goes. You can live to a very "old" age while maintaining good health, like Zhang Sangfeng. I would probably also kill myself if I couldn't even dress myself anymore but I'll always stick to a frugal life (even if I get rick someday somehow), just like Sanfeng did. I'm not sure if I can outlive Laozi or Sanfeng but I'm definitely working hard towards that end.

I fear death just as much as I fear losing Scarlett, they're equivalent in some way because if I die I'd lose her, and if I lose her then it would be meaningless for me to continue living.

[silverblk mystix]

A man is as old as he feels though, as the old proverb goes. You can live to a very "old" age while maintaining good health, like Zhang Sangfeng. I would probably also kill myself if I couldn't even dress myself anymore but I'll always stick to a frugal life (even if I get rick someday somehow), just like Sanfeng did. I'm not sure if I can outlive Laozi or Sanfeng but I'm definitely working hard towards that end.

I fear death just as much as I fear losing Scarlett, they're equivalent in some way because if I die I'd lose her, and if I lose her then it would be meaningless for me to continue living.


Keith Richards died about 30-35 years ago - but he did alright on the last Stones tour....

[DMC]

A man is as old as he feels though, as the old proverb goes. You can live to a very "old" age while maintaining good health, like Zhang Sangfeng. I would probably also kill myself if I couldn't even dress myself anymore but I'll always stick to a frugal life (even if I get rick someday somehow), just like Sanfeng did. I'm not sure if I can outlive Laozi or Sanfeng but I'm definitely working hard towards that end.

I fear death just as much as I fear losing Scarlett, they're equivalent in some way because if I die I'd lose her, and if I lose her then it would be meaningless for me to continue living.

My own death is nothing, like a needle prick to the arm, done and gone. It's the deaths you have to live with that's hard. That's more like a slow amputation without anesthetic and then having to heal and get over the fact that the limb is forever gone.

[phyzik]

interesting responses to say the least. thank you for all of your input... even though most didn't answer the question appropriately, it still gave insight.

Just a tidbit of info for those that are skeptics about immortality by 2045... The Human Genome project, when first conceived in 1987.... at that time people thought it was preposterous that we could do it in a lifetime, they thought it would take thousands of years... After 7 years of research, we reached 1% mapping of the human genome... that lead people to say "SEE! its going to take a thousand years to do this!" but they didn't understand exponential growth... our minds are designed to think in linear growth.... 1,2,3,4,5.... Exponential growth, as it is with I/T and several other fields, is much different.... it goes 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 and so on. In other words, technology doubles in performance almost every year... currently I think its's 13 months, but close enough.

it may not seem like much to begin with, but if you take linear progression, which we are "programmed" to think like and compare it to exponential progression, which is what Technology is growing at on a predictable graph since the 1950's, its astonishing. On a linear growth, by the time you hit "level 30", on an exponential growth scale, which Technology has been following for the past 60 years or so almost spot on, we would be at roughly level 8.6 BILLION. Think about it, not even 20 years ago the "internet" was just a novelty with DOS programs like Prodigy (which I used BTW back in the early 80's). The phone you have in your pocket is much more powerful than the computers NASA had back in 1979, which took up whole rooms. That PS3 sitting in your house, which costs you $300, is as powerful as a military supercomputer from 1997 which costs several million dollars at the time.

Call it crazy or whatever you like, but we are exponentially growing when it comes to technology and there is no sign of it slowing down.... The future that I talk of is inevitable, be it 2045 or not... It's going to happen.

[ezau]

I can't even stand teenagers who are not even 10 years younger than me, why would I stay around for the next 60 to 70 years? Anyway, mortality exists for a reason; the Earth has limited resources, and feeding immortal beings would simply hasten its demise. No thanks, the Earth is far more important than humanity's continued existence.

[DMC]

I can't even stand teenagers who are not even 10 years younger than me, why would I stay around for the next 60 to 70 years? Anyway, mortality exists for a reason; the Earth has limited resources, and feeding immortal beings would simply hasten its demise. No thanks, the Earth is far more important than humanity's continued existence.

Why?

Imagine there's a planet like Earth some billion parsecs away that's uninhabited. How important is it?

I fail to see innate value in the Earth outside of what I need from it. If you claim you do see that value, part of me feels it's probably some misguided sense of oneness with a nature that couldn't give two shits about you.

[DMC]

interesting responses to say the least. thank you for all of your input... even though most didn't answer the question appropriately, it still gave insight.

Just a tidbit of info for those that are skeptics about immortality by 2045... The Human Genome project, when first conceived in 1987.... at that time people thought it was preposterous that we could do it in a lifetime, they thought it would take thousands of years... After 7 years of research, we reached 1% mapping of the human genome... that lead people to say "SEE! its going to take a thousand years to do this!" but they didn't understand exponential growth... our minds are designed to think in linear growth.... 1,2,3,4,5.... Exponential growth, as it is with I/T and several other fields, is much different.... it goes 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 and so on. In other words, technology doubles in performance almost every year... currently I think its's 13 months, but close enough.

it may not seem like much to begin with, but if you take linear progression, which we are "programmed" to think like and compare it to exponential progression, which is what Technology is growing at on a predictable graph since the 1950's, its astonishing. On a linear growth, by the time you hit "level 30", on an exponential growth scale, which Technology has been following for the past 60 years or so almost spot on, we would be at roughly level 8.6 BILLION. Think about it, not even 20 years ago the "internet" was just a novelty with DOS programs like Prodigy (which I used BTW back in the early 80's). The phone you have in your pocket is much more powerful than the computers NASA had back in 1979, which took up whole rooms. That PS3 sitting in your house, which costs you $300, is as powerful as a military supercomputer from 1997 which costs several million dollars at the time.

Call it crazy or whatever you like, but we are exponentially growing when it comes to technology and there is no sign of it slowing down.... The future that I talk of is inevitable, be it 2045 or not... It's going to happen.

I worked with the human genome project and still do work with genetics and bio-discovery. What you're suggesting is a fairytale. It's not what we don't know, it's what we can't do about what we do know. The instrumentation available to detect markers lack enough specificity to get there. We can make better instruments with higher signal to noise ratios and faster scanning times and higher resolutions however it's not going to get there by the date you mentioned. Moore's Law has run aground and so it goes with other aspects of science as well. We reach diminishing returns for long periods until there's a breakthrough.

[Baseline]

Some major scientist and futurists (Ray Kurzweil, Michio Kaku, ect..) believe that there is a human alive today, possibly in their 60's, that will live to see 150 years old due to advances in the IT medical fields (ie. the Genome project, The CGP, and other studies).
Please tell me that human isn't Gregg Popovich.

[rascal]

My mother is 78.

[Rogue]

My own death is nothing, like a needle prick to the arm, done and gone. It's the deaths you have to live with that's hard. That's more like a slow amputation without anesthetic and then having to heal and get over the fact that the limb is forever gone.
Good point, but your death would impose the same grievous feelings on the ones who love you, and the thought of other people being grievous because of your death would make it very hard for you to rest in peace imho. I think a big part of the sorror of death is the pain it causes to one's family. I once dreamed of being dead, my soul came back to my home and saw a picture of mine in black & white resting on the desk, and my mom melting on the ground crying. I just couldn't imagine how my mom (or anyone else who loved me just as hard, like my goddess) would survive the fact that I was dead, tbh.

[SupremeGuy]

I'd jump all over immorality.

[cantthinkofanything]

Yeah but you can't think of anything so no shocker there.

check your mom's ass for the shocker

[The Reckoning]

no thanks im not that selfish. everyone on earth and in the past are a bunch of self righteous fucks who need to pass the torch to future generations if we have any hope of survival.

[DMC]

Good point, but your death would impose the same grievous feelings on the ones who love you, and the thought of other people being grievous because of your death would make it very hard for you to rest in peace imho. I think a big part of the sorror of death is the pain it causes to one's family. I once dreamed of being dead, my soul came back to my home and saw a picture of mine in black & white resting on the desk, and my mom melting on the ground crying. I just couldn't imagine how my mom (or anyone else who loved me just as hard, like my goddess) would survive the fact that I was dead, tbh.

Death is simply death. You don't grieve from the grave. Otherwise you're not really dead, just in another state of living. I had billions of years of "peace" before I was born. I feel secure enough in my thinking process to conclude it will be the same post mortem.

[silverblk mystix]

Why?

Imagine there's a planet like Earth some billion parsecs away that's uninhabited. How important is it?

I fail to see innate value in the Earth outside of what I need from it. If you claim you do see that value, part of me feels it's probably some misguided sense of oneness with a nature that couldn't give two shits about you.

Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....


Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.

[DMC]

Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....


Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.

Why isn't that good enough? Why do you think that conceptualization doesn't equal reality? Maybe it does.

[silverblk mystix]

Why isn't that good enough? Why do you think that conceptualization doesn't equal reality? Maybe it does.

This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.

[DMC]

This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.

So you want to get into a debate on epistemology? Can I drop a Bertrand Russell and a Kant here and there?

You do realize that your statement above is a tautology, right? You make a claim and support it with basically itself. An argument that begins with a logical fallacy isn't much of an argument at all.

What is knowledge? What's the difference between what you believe and what you know?

[cantthinkofanything]

It might be time to seriously consider trading Parker. It'd be a ballsy move when he's playing this good but I think they could seriously build for the future.

[silverblk mystix]

So you want to get into a debate on epistemology? Can I drop a Bertrand Russell and a Kant here and there?

Actually no - just answering your claim - or your question - that conceptualization is equal to reality.

You do realize that your statement above is a tautology, right? You make a claim and support it with basically itself. An argument that begins with a logical fallacy isn't much of an argument at all.

Who is arguing?

What is knowledge? What's the difference between what you believe and what you know?

Big difference.

[DMC]

Big difference.

You gave no answers. Why even interject if you have nothing to offer?

[silverblk mystix]

You gave no answers. Why even interject if you have nothing to offer?


What are you asking? You want me to show you how and why a concept is not reality?

[DMC]

What are you asking? You want me to show you how and why a concept is not reality?

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.

[silverblk mystix]

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

What is wisdom? I actually never disputed your claim - or mentioned anything about knowledge.

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

Again...still waiting for where it pertains to me...

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

Nature is a concept invented by humans...a word...a description of what humans perceive and try to describe.

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.

??Yes , I agree...in his mind....man separated himself...so...this is still in the minds of humans - exactly as I said in the beginning.


I thought you were disagreeing with me that a concept - is not the same as reality - but it appears we are agreed.

[DMC]

You still didn't answer any of my questions and your formatting is not conducive to continued debate.

If a concept exists, it exists in reality. Ergo it cannot be separate from reality.

[silverblk mystix]

You still didn't answer any of my questions and your formatting is not conducive to continued debate.

If a concept exists, it exists in reality. Ergo it cannot be separate from reality.

disagree...I will make time later to explain

[Proxy]

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.


1. Pattern recognition
2. Knowledge is objective, belief is subjective
3. Yes

[DMC]

1. Pattern recognition
2. Knowledge is objective, belief is subjective
3. Yes

2. Is that knowledge or belief?

[Blake]

interesting responses to say the least. thank you for all of your input... even though most didn't answer the question appropriately, it still gave insight.


The question was "immortality.........your thoughts?"

Wide open, imo

[Blake]

This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.

Ohhhhh! Look what sbm pulled right out of one the asses he was probing

[Proxy]

2. Is that knowledge or belief?

I feel like that kind of ambiguous reply is pretentious bs. You know what I mean, but you'll leave this discussion to fall on the absence of some base agreement of semantics. If the world we live in has an *proven model of physics and a clear language in math, then there is an obvious ground for this to stand on. If you're willing to question if that model is knowledge or belief, then we both know the discussion goes no where.

edit: unproven to proven

[ezau]

Why?

Imagine there's a planet like Earth some billion parsecs away that's uninhabited. How important is it?

I fail to see innate value in the Earth outside of what I need from it. If you claim you do see that value, part of me feels it's probably some misguided sense of oneness with a nature that couldn't give two shits about you.

As I see it, you're simply overrating humanity. Yeah, sure, we're the only species to have this intelligence but look at our competition. The second most intelligent creature is the dolphin and they don't even have hands to put its imagination to good use. The only reason you think that way is because we are the most dominant lifeforms on this planet. I bet you would think otherwise if we were competing against a bigger, stronger, and smarter rival.

[DMC]

As I see it, you're simply overrating humanity. Yeah, sure, we're the only species to have this intelligence but look at our competition. The second most intelligent creature is the dolphin and they don't even have hands to put its imagination to good use. The only reason you think that way is because we are the most dominant lifeforms on this planet. I bet you would think otherwise if we were competing against a bigger, stronger, and smarter rival.

I rate humanity high because I am part of it. If there was a higher race, I'd still value humanity more, but outside of humanity, there's no value for anything in the universe. It's just a series of events (as are we) and I don't find anything valuable about anything I cannot see any use for.

[DMC]

I feel like that kind of ambiguous reply is pretentious bs. You know what I mean, but you'll leave this discussion to fall on the absence of some base agreement of semantics. If the world we live in has an unproven model of physics and a clear language in math, then there is an obvious ground for this to stand on. If you're willing to question if that model is knowledge or belief, then we both know the discussion goes no where.

So then you draw a clear line between knowledge and belief. If you have knowledge of a concept, is that now reality? Is belief a reality?

[Proxy]

So then you draw a clear line between knowledge and belief. If you have knowledge of a concept, is that now reality? Is belief a reality?

If knowledge is objective, then yes it is reality. If belief is subjective, then it is not a reality.

Unbiased mutual recognition on a universal level v. biased factionalized recognition on a micro level

[DMC]

If knowledge is objective, then yes it is reality. If belief is subjective, then it is not a reality.

Unbiased mutual recognition on a universal level v. biased factionalized recognition on a micro level

You're telling me what you believe to be, but if it's not a reality why should I give it any consideration?

[Proxy]

You're telling me what you believe to be, but if it's not a reality why should I give it any consideration?

Why would you believe anything else? What is your opinion? The world you live in abides by a common ground.

Anyone can wonder if we see the same blue. I'm all for existentialism, but this isn't the Matrix.

[DMC]

Why would you believe anything else? What is your opinion? The world you live in abides by a common ground.

Anyone can wonder if we see the same blue. I'm all for existentialism, but this isn't the Matrix.

It's odd that we all must say "I believe there's a common truth" yet it's all built on a belief (see the 2nd word of the sentence).

Regardless, the human mind is not "one" with nature, that's my point. There's a clear separation between our conscience and the stimuli from the outside world and perhaps we can only observe this from a 3rd person perspective (i.e. we often cannot discern reality from a dream but we can if someone else is dreaming and we're awake).

[monosylab1k]

:lmao all this debate over the OP ramblings of a confirmed drunken alcoholic buffoon.

[Chief Brody]

OP, ask those 3 unlucky trick-or-treaters who visited you a couple years ago.

[Proxy]

It's odd that we all must say "I believe there's a common truth" yet it's all built on a belief (see the 2nd word of the sentence).

Regardless, the human mind is not "one" with nature, that's my point. There's a clear separation between our conscience and the stimuli from the outside world and perhaps we can only observe this from a 3rd person perspective (i.e. we often cannot discern reality from a dream but we can if someone else is dreaming and we're awake).

"Consciousness" to an animal is a natural phenomenon like photosynthesis is to a plant. Soul never made sense, and we aren't a computer, obviously.

Things in this place get too big and too small to assume there's a "common truth"... like some bullshit, self-comforting answer to the question we all wondered since we were kids, but all this shit exists in the same universe.

Who knows how much we understand as humans but there's a model and it fuels a universal need for adaptation on every level. If adaptation generally progresses on a right or wrong move basis, then I think it's safe to assume objectivity v. subjectivity is a valid understanding of knowledge/belief. We can't assume we'll ever obtain a crystal clear understanding, but it'd be naive to assume that a distinction doesn't exist.

[DMC]

"Consciousness" to an animal is a natural phenomenon like photosynthesis is to a plant. Soul never made sense, and we aren't a computer, obviously.

Things in this place get too big and too small to assume there's a "common truth"... like some bullshit, self-comforting answer to the question we all wondered since we were kids, but all this shit exists in the same universe.

Who knows how much we understand as humans but there's a model and it fuels a universal need for adaptation on every level. If adaptation generally progresses on a right or wrong move basis, then I think it's safe to assume objectivity v. subjectivity is a valid understanding of knowledge/belief. We can't assume we'll ever obtain a crystal clear understanding, but it'd be naive to assume that a distinction doesn't exist.

There's no reason to make an assumption either way. There's no test we're required to complete and turn in that's asking these questions. SBM (Some Be@ner Mexican) was suggesting that the mind is one with nature. I asked him if he wanted to back that up and he just blew if off with some generalities.

If someone wants to show evidence that the human mind is one with nature, I'm here to read it.

[Rogue]

The most valuable knowledge for humans is the awareness that their knowledge is limited, limited by their time and the circumstances. Belief is one thing while truth is the other, some assumptions will be proven to be truth and evidences will be the change maker, but those theories and thoughts that are considered to be truth in our time will probably also prove to be false, just like Aristotle's theoies concerning the movements of objects to today's people. Our technology is still limited and expecting everything with today's knowledge is just stupid, tbh.

[silverblk mystix]

There's no reason to make an assumption either way. There's no test we're required to complete and turn in that's asking these questions. SBM (Some Be@ner Mexican) was suggesting that the mind is one with nature. I asked him if he wanted to back that up and he just blew if off with some generalities.

If someone wants to show evidence that the human mind is one with nature, I'm here to read it.


Wrong.

What I did say was that concepts are not the same as reality. A concept can only point to reality - words can only point to reality and maybe describe reality - but they are not the same.

[DMC]

Wrong.

What I did say was that concepts are not the same as reality. A concept can only point to reality - words can only point to reality and maybe describe reality - but they are not the same.


Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....


Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.

You love using the word "wrong" as if you actually know better. Then you don't do anything to support your assertion. You claim "humans make this mistake all the time" as if the alternative is that animals do not, and you're somehow superhuman thus you can see this development and make the comparison.

All perception only exists in our minds. Even when we interpret external source data it's done so in our minds. Trying to separate yourself from that is futile. It's infinite regression at its finest.

[TDMVPDPOY]

live to old age only to be a prisoner of ur own body and mind....

[silverblk mystix]

You love using the word "wrong" as if you actually know better. Then you don't do anything to support your assertion. You claim "humans make this mistake all the time" as if the alternative is that animals do not, and you're somehow superhuman thus you can see this development and make the comparison.

All perception only exists in our minds. Even when we interpret external source data it's done so in our minds. Trying to separate yourself from that is futile. It's infinite regression at its finest.


Not exactly. When I say "humans" - I mean - everyone - including myself. I wish I had time to break it down and explain it - but my schedule won't permit it these days so I assume you will believe in your own assertions anyway...carry on.

[DMC]

Not exactly. When I say "humans" - I mean - everyone - including myself. I wish I had time to break it down and explain it - but my schedule won't permit it these days so I assume you will believe in your own assertions anyway...carry on.

So you're saying humans have a oneness with nature, but you don't believe it.

[silverblk mystix]

So you're saying humans have a oneness with nature, but you don't believe it.

The word "maybe" is useful - when one pays attention to it. Maybe - there is no difference between us and nature....maybe we are connected and are one and the same thing...

It is consistent with your bigotry - that you believe we are all separate...therefore some are "beaners"...some are "nigs"...this comes from someone who believes he is "more than" or "other than" others....and "separate from" something like nature.

Maybe nature is your being....maybe reality and nature and you are one and the same thing.

Concepts, ideas, etc...are not reality...

You don't go to a restaurant and eat the menu - you want the food. Words, ideas, concepts - are not reality - they are pointers to reality.

[DMC]

The word "maybe" is useful - when one pays attention to it. Maybe - there is no difference between us and nature....maybe we are connected and are one and the same thing...

It is consistent with your bigotry - that you believe we are all separate...therefore some are "beaners"...some are "nigs"...this comes from someone who believes he is "more than" or "other than" others....and "separate from" something like nature.

Maybe nature is your being....maybe reality and nature and you are one and the same thing.

Concepts, ideas, etc...are not reality...

You don't go to a restaurant and eat the menu - you want the food. Words, ideas, concepts - are not reality - they are pointers to reality.

The word "maybe" is a word people like you use when they want to be heard but have nothing to say. If you have evidence of something, by all means.. speak up, however anyone here could toss out this "maybe" bullshit all day and never say anything we don't already know. Either say something or shut the fuck up.

Concepts and ideas are reality else they wouldn't exist.

[silverblk mystix]

The word "maybe" is a word people like you use when they want to be heard but have nothing to say. If you have evidence of something, by all means.. speak up, however anyone here could toss out this "maybe" bullshit all day and never say anything we don't already know. Either say something or shut the fuck up.

Concepts and ideas are reality else they wouldn't exist.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bullshit mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the fuck up idiot.

[DMC]

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bullshit mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the fuck up idiot.

Well maybe a purple unicorn checks assholes on Mars in another dimension of space/time. Maybe the creek swimming leaf blowing brown pygmy looking frijoles are really angels from a 6th dimension and are watching over us. Maybe you're not qualified to discuss epistemology (run and look the word up, hurry) and should stick to sucking Avante's asshole and the juvenile back and forth with Chump Dumper and leave the deeper discussion to people who don't fall back on "maybe". You and WC could get a room and maybe fuck each other in the ass if you could Google map your own dicks and then you could slip two fingers up his ass and find the hidden meaning.

[silverblk mystix]

Well maybe a purple unicorn checks assholes on Mars in another dimension of space/time. Maybe the creek swimming leaf blowing brown pygmy looking frijoles are really angels from a 6th dimension and are watching over us. Maybe you're not qualified to discuss epistemology (run and look the word up, hurry) and should stick to sucking Avante's asshole and the juvenile back and forth with Chump Dumper and leave the deeper discussion to people who don't fall back on "maybe". You and WC could get a room and maybe fuck each other in the ass if you could Google map your own dicks and then you could slip two fingers up his ass and find the hidden meaning.




So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

[Blake]

So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

:lol enlightened

[Blake]

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bullshit mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the fuck up idiot.

:lol enlightened meltdown

[johnsmith]

So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

You literally have no point do you?

[silverblk mystix]

#2) cont'd....

Reality = In flux

Concepts = Static

Concepts are frozen....reality is moving....flowing.

Where reality is flowing- moving - going on - Concepts and words fragment reality. This is why we have language - to cut up reality. Different languages - different ways of cutting up reality. This is why it is sometimes difficult to translate - because different languages/cultures cut up reality differently - and there are untranslatable words and expressions - because everyone is cutting up reality differently ---and ---adding and subtracting something - on top of - the fact that usage - keeps changing.

Reality = Whole ... but we cut it up and insert concepts and words to indicate all the different parts.

Ideas fragment reality - they fragment the intuition, the experience of reality as a whole. Words CANNOT give you reality. They can only indicate - only point to reality. Once you arrive - they are useless.


Let us say that I am looking at a storm coming in...and it is blowing hard and the skies are darkening etc....Until today - I have seen a storm...and you know...you seen one you seen em all...but today - for whatever reason - I am blown away - I am entranced...colors are intense...trees are swaying violently...raindrops are piercing the air...the wind feels amazing...I am literally dumbfounded...completely awestruck and cannot even believe what I am seeing and feeling - it is unexplainable and I have never experienced anything like this in my life...I see this with a freshness I haven't felt since I was a small innocent child...I have no words for it...it is flowing - not fragmented at all...

If you suddenly awoke me and ask me to describe it...What could I answer?- I have no words for it. There aren't any words for it. As soon as I open my mouth and begin to describe it - we are right back to concepts.

Now, if I cannot express this reality that is visible to my eyes and audible to my own ears - how can one express what cannot be seen. (God?)
How does one find a word for the reality or experience of God?

Words are pointers - not descriptions - certainly - not reality.

People get into "god" discussions - and they think that the "word- god" is reality. Isn't that insane? If things and ideas and concepts are not reality - how can they think that their "god - concept" is reality? Is there anything more ridiculous? The concept of god is reality and you think you can show "evidence" "proof".... LMAO.

Concepts are wonderful for science and for laboratories and evidence and proof are useful and wonderful when dealing with mechanical things.



So if you think that your concepts are the same thing or equal to reality - then you might be even more blind than I suspected.

They are not the same thing.

[silverblk mystix]

Are cucks - reality? In Blake's case...yes ...they are.


:lol

[johnsmith]

#2) cont'd....

Reality = In flux

Concepts = Static

Concepts are frozen....reality is moving....flowing.

Where reality is flowing- moving - going on - Concepts and words fragment reality. This is why we have language - to cut up reality. Different languages - different ways of cutting up reality. This is why it is sometimes difficult to translate - because different languages/cultures cut up reality differently - and there are untranslatable words and expressions - because everyone is cutting up reality differently ---and ---adding and subtracting something - on top of - the fact that usage - keeps changing.

Reality = Whole ... but we cut it up and insert concepts and words to indicate all the different parts.

Ideas fragment reality - they fragment the intuition, the experience of reality as a whole. Words CANNOT give you reality. They can only indicate - only point to reality. Once you arrive - they are useless.


Let us say that I am looking at a storm coming in...and it is blowing hard and the skies are darkening etc....Until today - I have seen a storm...and you know...you seen one you seen em all...but today - for whatever reason - I am blown away - I am entranced...colors are intense...trees are swaying violently...raindrops are piercing the air...the wind feels amazing...I am literally dumbfounded...completely awestruck and cannot even believe what I am seeing and feeling - it is unexplainable and I have never experienced anything like this in my life...I see this with a freshness I haven't felt since I was a small innocent child...I have no words for it...it is flowing - not fragmented at all...

If you suddenly awoke me and ask me to describe it...What could I answer?- I have no words for it. There aren't any words for it. As soon as I open my mouth and begin to describe it - we are right back to concepts.

Now, if I cannot express this reality that is visible to my eyes and audible to my own ears - how can one express what cannot be seen. (God?)
How does one find a word for the reality or experience of God?

Words are pointers - not descriptions - certainly - not reality.

People get into "god" discussions - and they think that the "word- god" is reality. Isn't that insane? If things and ideas and concepts are not reality - how can they think that their "god - concept" is reality? Is there anything more ridiculous? The concept of god is reality and you think you can show "evidence" "proof".... LMAO.

Concepts are wonderful for science and for laboratories and evidence and proof are useful and wonderful when dealing with mechanical things.



So if you think that your concepts are the same thing or equal to reality - then you might be even more blind than I suspected.

They are not the same thing.

I like the part where you describe the storm in detail and then explain that you could never describe the storm if asked.

[johnsmith]

I'm also a big fan of how anti "words" you are in all your theories. That if words didn't exist, we'd somehow be a more enlightened being.

Now tell me how wrong I am and how I'm missing the point.

[DMC]

lol non-duality pigeon

[silverblk mystix]

I like the part where you describe the storm in detail and then explain that you could never describe the storm if asked.

This is, of course , what blind humans perceive...when they read something useful - and choose to keep their brain on autopilot. The description was -concepts - the actual experience could never be explained.

If you have ever had a moment - the birth of your child, an amazing experience - and all your descriptions fell short of what you really saw - then you would understand.

Who am I kidding....

[DMC]

http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblog/william_sobottka_course_in_consciousness/

Yeah who are you kidding? You steal a few ideas from some enlightened liberal faggot potter and you pretend you understand epistemology. You're talking about religious experience, nothing else. It has nothing to do with epistemology.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm also a big fan of how anti "words" you are in all your theories. That if words didn't exist, we'd somehow be a more enlightened being.

Now tell me how wrong I am and how I'm missing the point.

I guess you missed the RED parts....with the disclaimer ....

When the sage points at the moon...all the idiot sees is the finger pointing...

[johnsmith]

This is, of course , what blind humans perceive...when they read something useful - and choose to keep their brain on autopilot. The description was -concepts - the actual experience could never be explained.

If you have ever had a moment - the birth of your child, an amazing experience - and all your descriptions fell short of what you really saw - then you would understand.

Who am I kidding....


Well, I've had the "birth of my child" moment and frankly, I can describe it quite well and feel as though my description of the event does it pretty good justice on the emotions of the evening.

I think I can do this so well because I'm intelligent enough to use the words that I've learned throughout my life to be able to put them in the correct order to form a coherent and thoughtful story...which is basically the opposite of what you do on this site when explaining your "words are bad" theory.

[johnsmith]

I guess you missed the RED parts....with the disclaimer ....

When the sage points at the moon...all the idiot sees is the finger pointing...

Or because I've trained myself to not pay attention to anything you post in red because it generally denotes some asinine thought that makes little to no sense.

[silverblk mystix]

http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblog/william_sobottka_course_in_consciousness/

Yeah who are you kidding? You steal a few ideas from some enlightened liberal faggot potter and you pretend you understand epistemology. You're talking about religious experience, nothing else. It has nothing to do with epistemology.


Never heard of that guy - but he might have some good stuff - I might check it out - thanks!

On the other hand - these things are all over the scriptures - all over mystic teachings - all over history - for anyone that cares to see - I didn't ever claim to invent shit - I have said over and over that truth is there but people hate truth. People hate to see the truth even if the great mystics have been crying themselves hoarse with the truth for eons...

[johnsmith]

http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblog/william_sobottka_course_in_consciousness/

Yeah who are you kidding? You steal a few ideas from some enlightened liberal faggot potter and you pretend you understand epistemology. You're talking about religious experience, nothing else. It has nothing to do with epistemology.

Shocking that this concept was "borrowed" by SBM only to be bastardized and turned into gibberish on spurstalk.


Truly, truly shocking.

[DMC]

So you've never heard of Eckhart Tolle?

lol

[johnsmith]

Never heard of that guy - but he might have some good stuff - I might check it out - thanks!

On the other hand - these things are all over the scriptures - all over mystic teachings - all over history - for anyone that cares to see - I didn't ever claim to invent shit - I have said over and over that truth is there but people hate truth. People hate to see the truth even if the great mystics have been crying themselves hoarse with the truth for eons...

Do people buy your BS in real life, because on here, it doesn't appear to carry much weight.

[DMC]

Never heard of that guy - but he might have some good stuff - I might check it out - thanks!

On the other hand - these things are all over the scriptures - all over mystic teachings - all over history - for anyone that cares to see - I didn't ever claim to invent shit - I have said over and over that truth is there but people hate truth. People hate to see the truth even if the great mystics have been crying themselves hoarse with the truth for eons...

So you don't know,but you think that because you read some shit or attended some seminars that impressed you, regurgitating it here will serve as your evidence that what I said earlier was, as you put it "wrong".

Nothing like a self made guru I suppose.

[silverblk mystix]

Well, I've had the "birth of my child" moment and frankly, I can describe it quite well and feel as though my description of the event does it pretty good justice on the emotions of the evening.

I think I can do this so well because I'm intelligent enough to use the words that I've learned throughout my life to be able to put them in the correct order to form a coherent and thoughtful story...which is basically the opposite of what you do on this site when explaining your "words are bad" theory.


You are either a bigger fool than I thought or a great liar - because there is no way that your "words" and/or "description" equals the same thing as the reality.

Reality = is when it happened and you experienced it.

Your description is memory of that reality = NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING!

But believe whatever you want.

[johnsmith]

You are either a bigger fool than I thought or a great liar - because there is no way that your "words" and/or "description" equals the same thing as the reality.

Reality = is when it happened and you experienced it.

Your description is memory of that reality = NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING!

But believe whatever you want.

Wow....so telling the story is not the same as being there in real time? Holy shit that's deep.

Well, thanks for setting me straight...I'm going to go and gouge my eyes out now so I never agin read these stupid fucking theories again.

[DMC]

You are either a bigger fool than I thought or a great liar - because there is no way that your "words" and/or "description" equals the same thing as the reality.

Reality = is when it happened and you experienced it.

Your description is memory of that reality = NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING!

But believe whatever you want.

Concepts don't have to be exactly the same as their exterior manifestations, they are still real. If concepts aren't real, they don't exist therefore there's no such thing as a concept.

[silverblk mystix]

So you don't know,but you think that because you read some shit or attended some seminars that impressed you, regurgitating it here will serve as your evidence that what I said earlier was, as you put it "wrong".

Nothing like a self made guru I suppose.

So what we've learned is that;

To you - knowledge - is what you already concluded you knew - and don't let truth get in the way of your conclusions.

Wasting my time...

[DMC]

Wow....so telling the story is not the same as being there in real time? Holy shit that's deep.

Well, thanks for setting me straight...I'm going to go and gouge my eyes out now so I never agin read these stupid fucking theories again.

If thine eye offends thee...

[silverblk mystix]

Concepts don't have to be exactly the same as their exterior manifestations, they are still real. If concepts aren't real, they don't exist therefore there's no such thing as a concept.

Not what you originally said - you said there is no difference between your concepts and reality.

I just showed you the error of your thinking and now you want to move the goalposts...lol/thread

[johnsmith]

Not what you originally said - you said there is no difference between your concepts and reality.

I just showed you the error of your thinking and now you want to move the goalposts...lol/thread

If someone agrees with you on this, do you promise to /thread?

If so, then I will agree with you everytime you try to "enlighten" people on this site.

Deal?

[DMC]

Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....


Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.


Why isn't that good enough? Why do you think that conceptualization doesn't equal reality? Maybe it does.


This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.


So you want to get into a debate on epistemology? Can I drop a Bertrand Russell and a Kant here and there?

You do realize that your statement above is a tautology, right? You make a claim and support it with basically itself. An argument that begins with a logical fallacy isn't much of an argument at all.

What is knowledge? What's the difference between what you believe and what you know?


You gave no answers. Why even interject if you have nothing to offer?


What are you asking? You want me to show you how and why a concept is not reality?


I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.


??Yes , I agree...in his mind....man separated himself...so...this is still in the minds of humans - exactly as I said in the beginning.


I thought you were disagreeing with me that a concept - is not the same as reality - but it appears we are agreed.


You still didn't answer any of my questions and your formatting is not conducive to continued debate.

If a concept exists, it exists in reality. Ergo it cannot be separate from reality.


disagree...I will make time later to explain

This is how it went.

Who's moving goalposts now? You're the one who made the assertion


Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....
Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.

I asked you to show evidence of that, instead you dragged up this non-duality schtick.

[silverblk mystix]

If someone agrees with you on this, do you promise to /thread?

If so, then I will agree with you everytime you try to "enlighten" people on this site.

Deal?

Do what pleases you - read/don't read/learn/don't learn/make comments/continue being blind/

You can choose.

[johnsmith]

This is how it went.

Who's moving goalposts now? You're the one who made the assertion



I asked you to show evidence of that, instead you dragged up this non-duality schtick.

:corn::corn:

[silverblk mystix]

I kicked a 64 yarder - straight through the goalposts...awesome!!!!


No wait....the goalposts were now 75 yards away....fuck! :lol

[johnsmith]

Do what pleases you - read/don't read/learn/don't learn/make comments/continue being blind/

You can choose.

Since I can't learn anything from you, what with you making no sense and coming off as dumb, I suppose I will continue to be blind....

And by that I of course mean, continue on with my meaningful life with my wife, kids, success, and happiness. But keep telling yourself that what you do is special.

[johnsmith]

I kicked a 64 yarder - straight through the goalposts...awesome!!!!


No wait....the goalposts were now 75 yards away....fuck! :lol

He just lined out why you were wrong.

Your Avante shtick mixed with fake enlightenment is entertaining at least.

[silverblk mystix]

Since I can't learn anything from you, what with you making no sense and coming off as dumb, I suppose I will continue to be blind....

And by that I of course mean, continue on with my meaningful life with my wife, kids, success, and happiness. But keep telling yourself that what you do is special.


Do you mean the wife that DMC labels a "******" ....?

That sux...lol.

[silverblk mystix]

[email protected]

[johnsmith]

[email protected]

I literally have no idea what your talking about....but if you're trying to get under my skin that my wife is Hispanic, then have at it....no one makes fun of them quite as much as me.

[johnsmith]

I do find it funny that this is what you're left with at the end of the day....racist jokes.

The prison isn't very stimulating is it?

[silverblk mystix]

I do find it funny that this is what you're left with at the end of the day....racist jokes.

The prison isn't very stimulating is it?


So, you have never read any of the hundreds/thousands of times that DMC has labeled hispanics - b@aners...

Ok....


LOL trying to say - that I made the racist slur...

[silverblk mystix]

There's no reason to make an assumption either way. There's no test we're required to complete and turn in that's asking these questions. SBM (Some Be@ner Mexican) was suggesting that the mind is one with nature. I asked him if he wanted to back that up and he just blew if off with some generalities.

If someone wants to show evidence that the human mind is one with nature, I'm here to read it.


lol

[DMC]

My wife is Hispanic as well.

[johnsmith]

So, you have never read any of the hundreds/thousands of times that DMC has labeled hispanics - b@aners...

Ok....


LOL trying to say - that I made the racist slur...
Unlike you, I don't take this site serious enough to pay attention to who says what when it comes to racism, or dumb jokes....so if he has, I don't remember....nor do I care.

But yeah, the Internet is important to you...I understand.

[johnsmith]

SBM reminds me of "the jerk store" episode of Seinfeld....the debate is done, he's lost, feeling dumb and screams out, "yeah, we'll I had sex with your wife".

Just walk away SBM, there is no point anymore on this entire forum...it's beaten you time and time again and serves no purpose to you other than to frustrate you, make you upset when you're away from it, and cause you to create a fictional, "people to kill" list.

[silverblk mystix]

SBM reminds me of "the jerk store" episode of Seinfeld....the debate is done, he's lost, feeling dumb and screams out, "yeah, we'll I had sex with your wife".

Just walk away SBM, there is no point anymore on this entire forum...it's beaten you time and time again and serves no purpose to you other than to frustrate you, make you upset when you're away from it, and cause you to create a fictional, "people to kill" list.


lol you have an active imagination...this is your reality...

[DMC]

To lose a debate you have to actually be part of the debate. He wasn't. His input didn't rise above the noise tbh.

[silverblk mystix]

My wife is Hispanic as well.

This makes sense - that you hate your wife and lash out here whenever you can before tucking your tail back in...lmao

[DMC]

lol you have an active imagination...this is your reality...

You and Koolaid_Man have that overuse of ellipses in common, and you use dashes as well. You're illiterate which explains your position in life and in the search rooms.

[johnsmith]

lol you have an active imagination...this is your reality...

The thing is though, your posting history more than supports the conclusion I've come too....just leave it alone, walk away slowly, and start a new life as SBM on a different sports forum where words are looked down upon, e gangs aren't all over you, and track and field news is not frowned upon.

[johnsmith]

This makes sense - that you hate your wife and lash out here whenever you can before tucking your tail back in...lmao

What?

[DMC]

This makes sense - that you hate your wife and lash out here whenever you can before tucking your tail back in...lmao

I love my wife. She behaves like a be@ner should, very submissive to me unless I want that hot Latina back talk (which I often reward with a backhand). Unlike you though, her hairline doesn't start just a half inch above her eyebrows.

[johnsmith]

I love my wife. She behaves like a be@ner should, very submissive to me unless I want that hot Latina back talk (which I often reward with a backhand). Unlike you though, her hairline doesn't start just a half inch above her eyebrows.
SBM has multiple failed marriages so he projects a lot on here.

[DMC]

SBM has multiple failed marriages so he projects a lot on here.

Maybe failed marriages but successful divorces.

[xellos88330]

I thought there could only be one.

[silverblk mystix]

:rollin:rollin


Look what has come to light;

Give the ladies a little truth and they get sassy and salty and riled up!

[DMC]

:rollin:rollin


Look what has come to light;

Give the ladies a little truth and they get sassy and salty and riled up!

Ok Tino.

[Blake]

I guess you missed the RED parts....with the disclaimer ....

When the sage points at the moon...all the idiot sees is the finger pointing...

Rofl comparing yourself to a sage.

[johnsmith]

:rollin:rollin


Look what has come to light;

Give the ladies a little truth and they get sassy and salty and riled up!

You're dumb. Not just a little slow either, like, you're a fucking idiot sort of dumb. Nothing you say makes sense and then when you come back to the, "I was trolling" thing, you just come off as being dumber.

What your life must be like seems sad to me considering you couldn't even manage to gain a little bit of respect on the Internet. You even managed to be a quivering pussy when I invited you for a beer.

Just relax, enjoy the fact that you managed to marry for a third time and wait patiently for cancer to take care of your body.

[silverblk mystix]

You're dumb. Not just a little slow either, like, you're a fucking idiot sort of dumb. Nothing you say makes sense and then when you come back to the, "I was trolling" thing, you just come off as being dumber.

What your life must be like seems sad to me considering you couldn't even manage to gain a little bit of respect on the Internet. You even managed to be a quivering pussy when I invited you for a beer.

Just relax, enjoy the fact that you managed to marry for a third time and wait patiently for cancer to take care of your body.


lol ...ladies still butthurt and terrified of truth...


lol reality

[Blake]

lol ...ladies still butthurt and terrified of truth...


lol reality

lol sage

[silverblk mystix]

I am an immortal CUCK!



:lmao

[Blake]

:lmao

lol enlightened sage melted down again