Is Hakeem Olajuwon The Greatest Big Man of All-Time?

[Koolaid_Man]

I know MJ had Dream on his all starting 5 list over every other big man in the game...but just where should we rank Hakeem...I'm starting to re-think my position on this guy after coming across some old tapes of how he neutered and spayed D-Rob during the Rox title yrs. Laker fan before you think I'm committing sacrilege agaisnt Kareem and Wilt...hear me out...let's look at the potential theoretical match-ups 1 on 1

Hakeem vs Shaq

He already proved he could dismantle a prime Shaq and he pulverized Shaq during the finals...If I'm not mistaken he averaged like 35 against a prime Shaq in Orlando . His foot work and fade-away jump shot was too much for Shaq...he played Shaq man to man and stopped him with excellent African defense...

9hRoMOAirnU

Hakeem vs Robinson

PRIOR to 6...This was THE most embarrassing moment in Spurs history. No other player in the history of the game was treated as badly by an opponent than what Dream did to D-Rob...it was Epic like the original Clash of the Titans

hW4uXlRGAF0


Hakeem vs Duncan

No comparison tbh...Duncan and Robinson are very interchangeable in my view...only difference is Duncan came a bit too late to get the Dream mistreatment...in fact because Duncan has slower foot work in the paint...Dream would have embarrassed him way worse...If Duncan had played in Hakeem's prime we wouldn't even know who he was...


Hakeem vs Wilt

If Dream can dominate Shaq I have no doubts he dominates Wilt...Hakeem's footwork was to impeccable for these big guys. He played like a PG in many ways

Hakeem vs Bill Russell

Hakeem wins and easily. I see no way Bill could beat Hakeem 1 on 1....they should rename the finals award tbh....

Hakeem vs McHale

Mchale is in the same boat as Russell tbh...it would be total domination by Hakeem

Hakeem vs Kareem...

This is where I struggle the most....because the Skyhook was the most devastating and unstoppable shot in NBA history...but Hakeem is the BEST low post player in history plus he had a fade-away that was almost just as unstoppable..plus he played hella defense...leads the NBA all-time in blocks...I just don't see how a prime Kareem could deal with the complete package of a prime Dream...I think in the end I'd have to go with Dream over Kareem....it's a tough call but I think MJ was right on this..and that's hard for me to say as a Laker die-hard...


If Prime Dream is in LA playing with Kareem and Magic LA wins 12 titles in a row...:hat I think the African get's overlooked because he's from Nigeria

[Leon Black]

http://cdn.meme.li/i/mkvqo.jpg

[Rogue]

Dream would still have the edge against Abdul imho. dudes would be evenly matched in offense because Dream's footwork and Kareem's skyhook were both their name sakes that the other had nary solution to, and defense would be the tie breaker imho. Prime Hakeem may be the best big in defense, or at least the 2nd best of all time behind Bill Russell

[lefty]

GOAT center imo

[whitemamba]

Not really fair to compare prime Dream to young Shaq tbh,

[StrengthAndHonor]

Dream would still have the edge against Abdul imho. dudes would be evenly matched in offense because Dream's footwork and Kareem's skyhook were both their name sakes that the other had nary solution to, and defense would be the tie breaker imho. Prime Hakeem may be the best big in defense, or at least the 2nd best of all time behind Bill Russell

There are clips of a 38 y/o Jabbar vs a 23 ish y/o Olajuwon battling it down low, I believe its the playoffs and its amazing how even at that age Kareem was schooling the better and younger centers in that era.

[Koolaid_Man]

There are clips of a 38 y/o Jabbar vs a 23 ish y/o Olajuwon battling it down low, I believe its the playoffs and its amazing how even at that age Kareem was schooling the better and younger centers in that era.

I know what you speak of..I've seen those vids...and Kareem was a muthafucker...but I'm talking prime players here...and based on his defensive prowess...I gotta go with Hakeem..because in the end I think Hakeem was more versatile, had better range, was a fucking beast in the paint, with either hand...and was just flat out the best defensive player outside of Dennis Rodman the league has ever seen....tbh....

[Koolaid_Man]

Dream would still have the edge against Abdul imho. dudes would be evenly matched in offense because Dream's footwork and Kareem's skyhook were both their name sakes that the other had nary solution to, and defense would be the tie breaker imho. Prime Hakeem may be the best big in defense, or at least the 2nd best of all time behind Bill Russell

:lmao what a joke statement if I've ever seen one...Bill Russell is over hyped and rated...he's only getting props from the NBA based on what he had to endure as a black man playing in Boston back in the day...it's all nostalgia with him...The NBA Finals MVP award should named after Hakeem if it's based on best overall Big man

[Koolaid_Man]

Not really fair to compare prime Dream to young Shaq tbh,

even a Prime Shaq would have gotten schooled...Listen Shaq would have fouled out trying to guard Hakeem straight up...while on the other hand Hakeem would have given him room and simply blocked his shot outside of 3 ft from the rim...that's how good Dream was...he wasn't intimidated by Shaq's girth at all...he would have been either popping jumpers in Shaq's face or dancing on him in the paint...it would have been brutal to watch...Shaq would have been on the bench before the end of the 1Q tbh

[spurraider21]

If you think Kobe > Bron because 5>2 then you can't really argue Dream> Timmy

[Clipper Nation]

Boiled down:::

http://www.mylifeoutdoors.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Colorado-White-Water-Rafting.jpg

[92 Shoot em up]

Koolaid continuing to get shit on. Nigga is a disgrace to true hood niggas.

[Leon Black]

http://pictures.picpedia.com/2013/07/White%20Water%20Rafting%20Accident.jpg

[Calispursfan11]

He is definitely the best African born big man of all time, hands down.

[Calispursfan11]

Koolaid has gone beyond ridiculous with his recent antics but at least the new nice ass thong-clad avatar provides some redemption tbh

[Koolaid_Man]

If you think Kobe > Bron because 5>2 then you can't really argue Dream> Timmy

the problem you have is this....no one outside of SA believes Timmy is even remotely better than Hakeem....the only people that think Bron is better than Kobe is Texas fan, Heat fan, and the media...everyone else in the modern world picks Kobe...skill wise Lebron is not in the same league as MJ or Kobe..Lebron has a basic crab dribble game and basic power tomahawk dunk that's it...skill wise Duncan has nothing over Hakeem...

see I can always get blood out of turnip :toast

[Calispursfan11]

the problem you have is this....no one outside of SA believes Timmy is even remotely better than Hakeem....the only people that think Bron is better than Kobe is Texas fan, Heat fan, and the media...everyone else in the modern world picks Kobe...skill wise Lebron is not in the same league as MJ or Kobe..Lebron has a basic crab dribble game and basic power tomahawk dunk that's it...skill wise Duncan has nothing over Hakeem...

see I can always get blood out of turnip :toast

You make Lebron sound like a caveman tbh. Is that what you're saying?

[Koolaid_Man]

Koolaid continuing to get shit on. Nigga is a disgrace to true hood niggas.

I'm not a hood nigga....but I do pack my pistol and I will kick your ass...the only time I"m in the hood is to get a haircut and to catch up on my street slang and to keep my ear to the streets...tbh :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

You make Lebron sound like a caveman tbh. Is that what you're saying?

his game says that...why don't you ask Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Dr. J, Dirk Nowitski, D-Wade, and a host of other players why they choose Kobe over Lebron... real players recognize game

[Clipper Nation]

his game says that...why don't you ask Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Dr. J, Dirk Nowitski, D-Wade, and a host of other players why they choose Kobe over Lebron... real players recognize game

http://www.villascostarica.com/userfiles/tamarindo-water-rafting-5.jpg

[Koolaid_Man]

the Spurs literally won a title and then handed it over to Lebron...he's not supposed to have 2...you guys are the biggest jokes in NBA history and unfortunately Spur fan haven't figured that out yet.....:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

http://www.villascostarica.com/userfiles/tamarindo-water-rafting-5.jpg

jealous cuz you can't afford to partake in one of life's excess pleasures

[Calispursfan11]

his game says that...why don't you ask Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Dr. J, Dirk Nowitski, D-Wade, and a host of other players why they choose Kobe over Lebron... real players recognize game

I see what you're saying but to say Lebron only has a crab dribble and a tomahawk is just wrong. I hate the fucker tbh but he has more than those two moves. True, he is utilitarian to the point of having a fairly ugly style but he has more than 2 moves. C'mon dawg

[Koolaid_Man]

I see what you're saying but to say Lebron only has a crab dribble and a tomahawk is just wrong. I hate the fucker tbh but he has more than those two moves. True, he is utilitarian to the point of having a fairly ugly style but he has more than 2 moves. C'mon dawg

namne something else he got...nigga can't do a third of the shit Kobe can do with the ball...he has no skill compared to Kobe...he dunks hard, barrels to the basket, and will hit an open jumper....Lebron has a basic game set...nothing spectacular...I'm just not impressed with his hard dunks...and tbh that's all the media tries to sell you on...Dude's game is lame as fuck...he thought he lost to Timmy that's why he saying Timmy is the best player of the decade...in fact Lebron choked off game 6 with those 2 turnovers late..and was bailed out by RayRay...real playas recognize it for what it is...and tbh they don't really respect the nigga...Just go back to that Bulls series when the Bulls basically called him a bitch and was punking him all over the court...

[namlook]

Nice troll. This shits not even close.



2× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_Finals)–1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season)–1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season))
NBA Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
12× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NBA_All-Star_Game), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_All-Star_Game))
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award) (1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)–1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
2x NBA rebounding leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_reb ounding_leaders) (1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9389_NBA_season)-1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season))
3× NBA blocks leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_blo cks_leaders) (1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season)-1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season))
6× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9387_NBA_season)–1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9389_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)–1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
3× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E2%80%9386_NBA_season), 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season))
3× All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season), 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season))
5× All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9387_NBA_season)–1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_NBA_season), 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)-1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
4× All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season)–1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season))
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History)
NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Basketball_Tournament_Most_Outstanding_Player ) (1983 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
SWC Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_Player_of_ the_Year) (1984)




6× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NBA_Finals), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_NBA_Finals), 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_NBA_Finals), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_Finals), 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_NBA_Finals)–1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NBA_Finals), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_Finals))
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season), 1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_NBA_season), 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season), 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NBA_season), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season))
19× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_NBA_All-Star_Game), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NBA_All-Star_Game))
10× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season)–1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season)–1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NBA_season), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season)–1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season), 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NBA_season), 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E2%80%9386_NBA_season))
5× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season), 1978 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977%E2%80%9378_NBA_season)–1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season), 1983 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982%E2%80%9383_NBA_season), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season))
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season)–1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_NBA_season), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season)–1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season))
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season)–1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season)–1978 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977%E2%80%9378_NBA_season), 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NBA_season))
NBA Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season))
2× NBA scoring champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_sco ring_leaders) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season)–1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_NBA_season))
NBA rebounding champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_reb ounding_leaders) (1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season))
4× NBA blocks leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_blo cks_leaders) (1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_NBA_season)–1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season)–1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season))
NBA all-time leading scorer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_career_sco ring_leaders)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History)
Los Angeles Lakers #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers#Hall_of_Famers.2C_retired_and_h onored_numbers) retired
Milwaukee Bucks #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bucks#Retired_numbers) retired
3× NCAA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Championship) (1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament )–1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Basketball_Tournament_Most_Outstanding_Player ) (1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament )–1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
2× Associated Press College Basketball Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Player_of_the_ Year) (1967, 1969)
2× Oscar Robertson Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Robertson_Trophy) winner (1967–1968)
Naismith College Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith_College_Player_of_the_Year) (1969)
UCLA #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball_retired_numbers) retired

[Koolaid_Man]

Nice troll. This shits not even close.



2× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_Finals)–1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season)–1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season))
NBA Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
12× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NBA_All-Star_Game), 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_All-Star_Game))
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award) (1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)–1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
2x NBA rebounding leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_reb ounding_leaders) (1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9389_NBA_season)-1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season))
3× NBA blocks leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_blo cks_leaders) (1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season)-1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season))
6× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9387_NBA_season)–1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9389_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)–1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
3× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E2%80%9386_NBA_season), 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season))
3× All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season), 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season))
5× All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9387_NBA_season)–1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_NBA_season), 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)-1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season))
4× All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season)–1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season))
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History)
NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Basketball_Tournament_Most_Outstanding_Player ) (1983 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
SWC Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_Player_of_ the_Year) (1984)




6× NBA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NBA_Finals), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_NBA_Finals), 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_NBA_Finals), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_Finals), 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_NBA_Finals)–1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA Finals MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell_NBA_Finals_Most_Valuable_Player_Award ) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NBA_Finals), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_NBA_Finals))
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season), 1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_NBA_season), 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season), 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NBA_season), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season))
19× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_NBA_All-Star_Game), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_NBA_All-Star_Game)–1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NBA_All-Star_Game))
10× All-NBA First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season)–1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season)–1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NBA_season), 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season)–1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season), 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NBA_season), 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E2%80%9386_NBA_season))
5× All-NBA Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season), 1978 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977%E2%80%9378_NBA_season)–1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season), 1983 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982%E2%80%9383_NBA_season), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_NBA_season))
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_NBA_season)–1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_NBA_season), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season)–1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season))
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season)–1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season)–1978 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977%E2%80%9378_NBA_season), 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9384_NBA_season))
NBA Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%E2%80%9370_NBA_season))
2× NBA scoring champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_sco ring_leaders) (1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_NBA_season)–1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971%E2%80%9372_NBA_season))
NBA rebounding champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_reb ounding_leaders) (1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season))
4× NBA blocks leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_blo cks_leaders) (1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_NBA_season)–1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_NBA_season), 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season)–1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979%E2%80%9380_NBA_season))
NBA all-time leading scorer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_career_sco ring_leaders)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History)
Los Angeles Lakers #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers#Hall_of_Famers.2C_retired_and_h onored_numbers) retired
Milwaukee Bucks #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bucks#Retired_numbers) retired
3× NCAA champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Championship) (1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament )–1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Basketball_Tournament_Most_Outstanding_Player ) (1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament )–1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ))
2× Associated Press College Basketball Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Player_of_the_ Year) (1967, 1969)
2× Oscar Robertson Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Robertson_Trophy) winner (1967–1968)
Naismith College Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith_College_Player_of_the_Year) (1969)
UCLA #33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball_retired_numbers) retired



^ not disputing any of that but that doesn't make Kareem a better player....and 1 on 1.... I think Hakeem eats his lunch

[Koolaid_Man]

Look at these moves in the post for a big man...I just don't think Kareem could do this....this is insane for a big guy..he played soccer so his lateral movement is sick

22O2lApCBBs

[LethalLebron]

his game says that...why don't you ask Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Dr. J, Dirk Nowitski, D-Wade, and a host of other players why they choose Kobe over Lebron... real players recognize game

Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Isiah Thomas, Bob MaCadoo, Jack Ramsay, Kenny Smith, Karl Malone are all former all-stars that disagree wit ur monkey ass n the list gonna keep gettin bigger:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Isiah Thomas, Bob MaCadoo, Jack Ramsay, Kenny Smith, Karl Malone are all former all-stars that disagree wit ur monkey ass n the list gonna keep gettin bigger:lol

Magic is a shill for ESPN nothing more nothing less...and :lmao@ Charles Barkley's opinion...and :lol@ using Zo who played for the Heat...

[spurraider21]

If spurs had beaten rockets in the wcf that year and went on to win the chip, would robinson be the goat center by kool'a standards? :lol

[RudyRay]

I started watching basketball around 1986-87 and the best big man I've seen in my years is Hakeem. He was on another level. Timmy's footwork and skill set is very close but he lacked Dream's athleticism.

[spurraider21]

Magic is a shill for ESPN nothing more nothing less...and :lmao@ Charles Barkley's opinion...and :lol@ using Zo who played for the Heat...
:lol you have no problem using fucking stephon marbury's opinion, but THESE guys are off limits


:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol you have no problem using fucking stephon marbury's opinion, but THESE guys are off limits


:lmao

I never said a gotdam thing about Steph's gay ass opinion

[ambchang]

I know MJ had Dream on his all starting 5 list over every other big man in the game...but just where should we rank Hakeem...I'm starting to re-think my position on this guy after coming across some old tapes of how he neutered and spayed D-Rob during the Rox title yrs. Laker fan before you think I'm committing sacrilege agaisnt Kareem and Wilt...hear me out...let's look at the potential theoretical match-ups 1 on 1

Hakeem vs Shaq

He already proved he could dismantle a prime Shaq and he pulverized Shaq during the finals...If I'm not mistaken he averaged like 35 against a prime Shaq in Orlando . His foot work and fade-away jump shot was too much for Shaq...he played Shaq man to man and stopped him with excellent African defense...

9hRoMOAirnU

Hakeem was constantly doubled by Shaq and Grant in the series as well. On the other hand, Shaq averaged 33 for the series or something like that. It would have been a longer series if Anderson didn't choke those FTs (destroyed his confidence and career after that), but the Rockets were simply the better team that year.


Hakeem vs Robinson

PRIOR to 6...This was THE most embarrassing moment in Spurs history. No other player in the history of the game was treated as badly by an opponent than what Dream did to D-Rob...it was Epic like the original Clash of the Titans

hW4uXlRGAF0

What was not mentioned was how Robinson was tripled/quadrupled the entire series while players like Avery Johnson and VDN were bricking wide open shots, while Rodman was hanging in no man's land guarding no one so that he can get rebounds.



Hakeem vs Duncan

No comparison tbh...Duncan and Robinson are very interchangeable in my view...only difference is Duncan came a bit too late to get the Dream mistreatment...in fact because Duncan has slower foot work in the paint...Dream would have embarrassed him way worse...If Duncan had played in Hakeem's prime we wouldn't even know who he was...

In a game of one on one, Hakeem would destroy Duncan, but Duncan has always been the better of the two in terms of using those around him. People forgot how Hakeem was viewed as a malcontent and black hole in the late 80s early 90s.

Besides, Duncan and Robinson were most definitely not interchangeable, one's got freak athleticism, the other a great feel for the game. Duncan struggled against Stoudemire, he will be lit up against Hakeem, no question.


Hakeem vs Wilt

If Dream can dominate Shaq I have no doubts he dominates Wilt...Hakeem's footwork was to impeccable for these big guys. He played like a PG in many ways

Hakeem vs Bill Russell

Hakeem wins and easily. I see no way Bill could beat Hakeem 1 on 1....they should rename the finals award tbh....

Different eras, can't compare.


Hakeem vs McHale

Mchale is in the same boat as Russell tbh...it would be total domination by Hakeem

McHale was one of the players with alpha skills but beta mentality, sort of like Robinson, and polar opposite to Kobe, if you will. He was the only guy in the history of the game with post moves that were comparable to Hakeem, and McHale was a dominant defensive player as well.


Hakeem vs Kareem...

This is where I struggle the most....because the Skyhook was the most devastating and unstoppable shot in NBA history...but Hakeem is the BEST low post player in history plus he had a fade-away that was almost just as unstoppable..plus he played hella defense...leads the NBA all-time in blocks...I just don't see how a prime Kareem could deal with the complete package of a prime Dream...I think in the end I'd have to go with Dream over Kareem....it's a tough call but I think MJ was right on this..and that's hard for me to say as a Laker die-hard...


If Prime Dream is in LA playing with Kareem and Magic LA wins 12 titles in a row...:hat I think the African get's overlooked because he's from Nigeria

What is there to struggle? In 1986, the year right before Kareem's drop off in production (the last year he had a share in MVP voting, finishing 5th), Hakeem averaged 31 ppg on 52% shooting, 11.2 rpg, 4 blks, 2.2 stls, and 2 asts. Kareem, for a 37 year old, put up a valiant fight, averaging 27ppg on 60.6% shooting, 2.4 blks, 3.4 asts, but had only 6.8 rpg and 0.8 stls. Not to mention that Kareem spent most of the time on Ralph Sampson, the lesser of the twin towers.

It got so bad, the league has to ban the entire Rocket's team on "drug use" when the entire league was on that stuff (not to mention taking away the other main opponent of the Lakers, the Mavs) so that the Lakers can remain competitive, and can have an easy path to the playoffs vs. tired and beaten up Boston or Detroit.

This was a huge embarrassment for the Lakers franchise that people try to sweep under the rug, it should belong to Kobe's rape, NVE's son being a convicted killer, the begging and the subsequent rejection, and Magic's HIV legacy.

On another note, truly sickening that KM is throwing KAJ, the greatest Laker of all time (who had his best years with the Bucks) under the bus in order to prop up Hakeem, and subsequently bolster Hakeem's credibility on how good Kobe is. Just absolutely embarrassing.

[AchillesHeel]

ambchang is on a rampage.

Kool, you better give up on trying to debate actual basketball stuff, go back to making threads suggesting Duncan's a fag. No one takes you seriously anyways.


Anyways, Hakeem is not the greatest big man of all-time, he's the most skilled big man of all-time. There's a huge difference. Greatness is not just measured by skill, but accomplishments. As far as accolades go, Hakeem is not the greatest, Kareem has it on lock and Wilt,Russell are right there. Kareem is the GOAT big man, 6 titles, 6 MVPs, 2x Finals MVP, winning one at age 37, top 5 MVP candidate, all-time leading scorer, won as an alpha on the Bucks and won titles for the Lakers. Fought Bruce Lee. Skyhook.

There's no way in hell that you can put Hakeem over Kareem. Kareem's stats destroy Hakeem's, Kareem won more titles, Hakeem at 37 averaged 10 and 6 while Kareem won a Finals MVP and averaged 22 and 8 and was 5th in MVP voting(he won FMVP while playing with prime Magic Johnson, he outdid prime Magic Johnson in the NBA Finals at 37).

Titles
MVPs
Totals
Longetivity

all those things point to Kareem, you might piss and moan about Kareem playing in the 70s and his stats being inflated but he was better at 37 than Hakeem in his rookie year, and Hakeem was a beast.

[Koolaid_Man]

Hakeem was constantly doubled by Shaq and Grant in the series as well. On the other hand, Shaq averaged 33 for the series or something like that. It would have been a longer series if Anderson didn't choke those FTs (destroyed his confidence and career after that), but the Rockets were simply the better team that year.

^ What does any of that have shit to do with my original thesis of Shaq vs Hakeem...are you typing just to be typing :lol


What was not mentioned was how Robinson was tripled/quadrupled the entire series while players like Avery Johnson and VDN were bricking wide open shots, while Rodman was hanging in no man's land guarding no one so that he can get rebounds.

^ Again that has nothing to do with Hakeem dominating Robinson like he belonged in the special Olympics :lol



In a game of one on one, Hakeem would destroy Duncan, but Duncan has always been the better of the two in terms of using those around him. People forgot how Hakeem was viewed as a malcontent and black hole in the late 80s early 90s.

^ That's it and that's all


Besides, Duncan and Robinson were most definitely not interchangeable, one's got freak athleticism, the other a great feel for the game. Duncan struggled against Stoudemire, he will be lit up against Hakeem, no question.

^ That's it and that's all




McHale was one of the players with alpha skills but beta mentality, sort of like Robinson, and polar opposite to Kobe, if you will. He was the only guy in the history of the game with post moves that were comparable to Hakeem, and McHale was a dominant defensive player as well.

^ His moves were decent for a white boy but not close to Hakeem...no comparison


What is there to struggle? In 1986, the year right before Kareem's drop off in production (the last year he had a share in MVP voting, finishing 5th), Hakeem averaged 31 ppg on 52% shooting, 11.2 rpg, 4 blks, 2.2 stls, and 2 asts. Kareem, for a 37 year old, put up a valiant fight, averaging 27ppg on 60.6% shooting, 2.4 blks, 3.4 asts, but had only 6.8 rpg and 0.8 stls. Not to mention that Kareem spent most of the time on Ralph Sampson, the lesser of the twin towers.

^ Enlighten me ohh wise one as to the difference in their ages during this time..again my thesis clearly stated "PRIME"...you reaching for a series stat to seem like you know what you're talking bout when you don't :lol


It got so bad, the league has to ban the entire Rocket's team on "drug use" when the entire league was on that stuff (not to mention taking away the other main opponent of the Lakers, the Mavs) so that the Lakers can remain competitive, and can have an easy path to the playoffs vs. tired and beaten up Boston or Detroit.

^ None of this rambling shit has any meaning to the discussion...again nothing but pie filler :lol



On another note, truly sickening that KM is throwing KAJ, the greatest Laker of all time (who had his best years with the Bucks) under the bus in order to prop up Hakeem, and subsequently bolster Hakeem's credibility on how good Kobe is. Just absolutely embarrassing.

^ You PMS Much? :lol

[spurraider21]

That's it and that's all

No. Just, no. you don't dictate "greatest" in a team sport by who would win 1 on 1. I'm fairly certain that in a game of one on one, an athletic monkeyballer like Jason Richardson would beat a guy like John Stockton, but nobody would argue J-Rich is a better player than Stockton. I always like to go with the exaggerated example of Cam Newton being a better 1 on 1 football player than Joe Montana

[Koolaid_Man]

No. Just, no. you don't dictate "greatest" in a team sport by who would win 1 on 1. I'm fairly certain that in a game of one on one, an athletic monkeyballer like Jason Richardson would beat a guy like John Stockton, but nobody would argue J-Rich is a better player than Stockton. I always like to go with the exaggerated example of Cam Newton being a better 1 on 1 football player than Joe Montana

then take away the 1 on 1 and Hakeem would still be a superior player based on his defense and jumpshot, and low post game....what else do you have to argue

[ambchang]

^ What does any of that have shit to do with my original thesis of Shaq vs Hakeem...are you typing just to be typing :lol

Try grasping the idea of a message board.



^ Again that has nothing to do with Hakeem dominating Robinson like he belonged in the special Olympics :lol

Except it has everything to do with it.


^ That's it and that's all

^ That's it and that's all


^ His moves were decent for a white boy but not close to Hakeem...no comparison

How would you know? You don't seem to have watched Kareem vs. Hakeem in 86, guess when McHale's prime was.


^ Enlighten me ohh wise one as to the difference in their ages during this time..again my thesis clearly stated "PRIME"...you reaching for a series stat to seem like you know what you're talking bout when you don't :lol

Kareem was dominated first by Moses, then by Hakeem. Speaking of which, where is Moses? You know, the guy who set the big man heritage with the Rockets.


^ None of this rambling shit has any meaning to the discussion...again nothing but pie filler :lol

Truth hurts.


^ You PMS Much? :lol

I don't even know what that is, but it doesn't change the fact that you are throwing the Lakers GOAT under the bus in order to prop up Kobe. Next thing you know, you will start posting Kobe videos and claim that Kobe > Hakeem, therefore Kobe is the best big of all time.

[ambchang]

then take away the 1 on 1 and Hakeem would still be a superior player based on his defense and jumpshot, and low post game....what else do you have to argue

In the team environment, Hakeem and Duncan are very comparable in their defense. I would still give the edge to Hakeem by a slight margin, but it's close.

[Koolaid_Man]

In the team environment, Hakeem and Duncan are very comparable in their defense. I would still give the edge to Hakeem by a slight margin, but it's close.

:lmaoyou're outta your fag loving mind

[ambchang]

:lmaoyou're outta your fag loving mind

They had similar defensive ratings, and Hakeem had slightly better defensive win shares, throughout their entire careers. You obviously haven't seen how Duncan (with and without Robinson) anchored some of the greatest defensive teams of all time.

[Boomersgold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGJl2MfyiI

Highlights of a 39 year old Kareem against a 24 year old Hakeem.

Kareem in his prime would dominate Olajuwon in his prime.

[spurraider21]

then take away the 1 on 1 and Hakeem would still be a superior player based on his defense and jumpshot, and low post game....what else do you have to argue

funny, if you were a Tim Duncan fan, you would say 4>2, that is it and that is all. As has been brought up before, Tim's ability to get the most of his teammates, elevate their games was one of his greatest assets, whereas Hakeem was more known for his individual greatness. it could be part of the explanation of the 5 years stretch where Dream couldn't get out of the 1st round (failing to miss the playoffs in one of those years).

Longevity is another aspect. Now Hakeem's greatness stretched for over a decade, but his decline was much more rapid than Tim. Tim at age 37 was still the best player of the team that was a 6 away from a championship. At age 37, Dream was averaging something like 10 and 6. Dream's peak > Tim's peak? Sure, I can see that. But as a franchise player over the course of entire careers? I'll take Tim. It didn't take him long at all to learn to not only be great individually, but also to make the team around you better. Dream didn't ring till his 11th, 12th season in the league, and had MJ not been suspended for 2 years, there's a decent chance Hakeem would not have won at all

[Michael Jordan.]

funny, if you were a Tim Duncan fan, you would say 4>2, that is it and that is all. As has been brought up before, Tim's ability to get the most of his teammates, elevate their games was one of his greatest assets, whereas Hakeem was more known for his individual greatness. it could be part of the explanation of the 5 years stretch where Dream couldn't get out of the 1st round (failing to miss the playoffs in one of those years).

Longevity is another aspect. Now Hakeem's greatness stretched for over a decade, but his decline was much more rapid than Tim. Tim at age 37 was still the best player of the team that was a 6 away from a championship. At age 37, Dream was averaging something like 10 and 6. Dream's peak > Tim's peak? Sure, I can see that. But as a franchise player over the course of entire careers? I'll take Tim. It didn't take him long at all to learn to not only be great individually, but also to make the team around you better. Dream didn't ring till his 11th, 12th season in the league, and had MJ not been suspended for 2 years, there's a decent chance Hakeem would not have won at all
To be fair, Hakeem never had seasons where he had games off (back to back games) like Duncan did. No rest..

[spurraider21]

To be fair, Hakeem never had seasons where he had games off (back to back games) like Duncan did. No rest..

To be fair Duncan typically went further into the postseason and thus had shorter summer vacations than Dream. No rest...

[Michael Jordan.]

To be fair Duncan typically went further into the postseason and thus had shorter summer vacations than Dream. No rest...
So you're saying Hakeem's teams were better than Duncan's?

[spurraider21]

So you're saying Hakeem's teams were better than Duncan's?

I didn't say that anywhere in any of my posts

I only brought that up to counter your rest argument

[Michael Jordan.]

I didn't say that anywhere in any of my posts

I only brought that up to counter your rest argument
And I'm pointing out where you originally said Hakeem's decline was very rapid, his teams usually consisted of him as the only option, yet he still posted numbers for much of his career. I'm simply saying Duncan's decline has been slowed by the fact Pop rests his team during the season to get ready for the playoffs. Hakeem never had that luxury.(when getting up in age)

[spurraider21]

And I'm pointing out where you originally said Hakeem's decline was very rapid, his teams usually consisted of him as the only option, yet he still posted numbers for much of his career. I'm simply saying Duncan's decline has been slowed by the fact Pop rests his team during the season to get ready for the playoffs. Hakeem never had that luxury.(when getting up in age)

So Hakeem had more regular season wear and Tim had more postseason wear.

[Koolaid_Man]

So Hakeem had more regular season wear and Tim had more postseason wear.

:lmao ^ so is this what trying to avoid a confrontation with a useful idiot looks like :lol

grow some balls and stop trying to keep your friendship intact...go back hard at his bitch ass..stop being a pussy and playing coy...yall both some bitches anyhow

[ambchang]

Boiled down to::

Duncan 4
Hakeem 2

[Michael Jordan.]

So Hakeem had more regular season wear and Tim had more postseason wear.
Hakeem had more wear as only option.

[spurraider21]

:lmao ^ so is this what trying to avoid a confrontation with a useful idiot looks like :lol

grow some balls and stop trying to keep your friendship intact...go back hard at his bitch ass..stop being a pussy and playing coy...yall both some bitches anyhow

?

His original point was that Tim had more rest over the course of his career, leading to his longevity. I responded by saying Tim had more postseason wear. I don't see what more needed to be said, tbh

[Koolaid_Man]

Boiled down to::

Duncan - Gay
Hakeem - Straight

^ fify

[spurraider21]

Hakeem had more wear as only option.

Drexler joined the Rockets and was still putting up 18-20 for a few years as Hakeem not-so-gracefully declined

[Michael Jordan.]

Drexler joined the Rockets and was still putting up 18-20 for a few years as Hakeem not-so-gracefully declined
Who else did Hakeem have along the way since Sampson broke down?



Mark Acres (http://www.fanbase.com/Mark-Acres) (1992-93)
Richard Anderson (http://www.fanbase.com/3-Richard-Anderson) (1986-88)
Shandon Anderson (http://www.fanbase.com/Shandon-Anderson) (1999-01)
Charles Barkley (http://www.fanbase.com/Charles-Barkley) (1996-00)
Elmer Bennett (http://www.fanbase.com/Elmer-Bennett) (1996-97)
Walter Berry (http://www.fanbase.com/Walter-Berry) (1988-89)
Melvin Booker (http://www.fanbase.com/Melvin-Booker) (1995-96)
Anthony Bowie (http://www.fanbase.com/Anthony-Bowie) (1989-90)
Tim Breaux (http://www.fanbase.com/Tim-Breaux) (1994-96)
Scott Brooks (http://www.fanbase.com/1-Scott-Brooks) (1992-95)
Chucky Brown (http://www.fanbase.com/Chucky-Brown) (1994-96)
Tony Brown (http://www.fanbase.com/3-Tony-Brown) (1988-89)
Mark Bryant (http://www.fanbase.com/Mark-Bryant) (1995-96)
Matt Bullard (http://www.fanbase.com/Matt-Bullard) (1990-94, 1996-01)
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[Michael Jordan.]

And that wasn't a prime Drexler.

[spurraider21]

And that wasn't a prime Drexler.

I never said prime Drexler. I said he was putting up 18-20. c'mon dude read a little.

i can list a ton of players Duncan has endured with over the years. shane heal, jason hart, anthony tolliver, ime udoka. its not that hard to compile a list of shitty teammates. Didn't Hakeem also play with Chuck and Pippen?

Obviously they were appraoching TOSB but Chuck was still averaging double doubles, Scottie put up 15-6-6 in his one year there. It's a fact that Dream's decline was much uglier than Timmy's

[Michael Jordan.]

I never said prime Drexler. I said he was putting up 18-20. c'mon dude read a little.

i can list a ton of players Duncan has endured with over the years. shane heal, jason hart, anthony tolliver, ime udoka. its not that hard to compile a list of shitty teammates. Didn't Hakeem also play with Chuck and Pippen?

Obviously they were appraoching TOSB but Chuck was still averaging double doubles, Scottie put up 15-6-6 in his one year there. It's a fact that Dream's decline was much uglier than Timmy's
Like you said, Hakeem's decline was rapid. However, Duncan DID have Parker and Ginobli, arguably two future hall of famers, for most of his career, and had them in their prime. Robinson was also approaching TOSB status though he still put up good numbers as well. Sampson was traded in 88, although Hakeem had Thorpe for much of his prime, that was it. From 88-95, Hakeem had no all stars, except for Thorpe in 92.

[ambchang]

^ fify

What is the significance of this? Weren't you rambling about how we have to stay on topic? How does Duncan possibly being bisexual (not proven and bisexual != gay) have to do with him being the greatest big man of all time?

Why all the filler?

[ambchang]

Hakeem had such a bad supporting cast, his third string PG that was cut twice by the Rockets was Avery Johnson, aka the best PG Robinson played with in his prime.

[spurraider21]

Like you said, Hakeem's decline was rapid. However, Duncan DID have Parker and Ginobli, arguably two future hall of famers, for most of his career, and had them in their prime. Robinson was also approaching TOSB status though he still put up good numbers as well. Sampson was traded in 88, although Hakeem had Thorpe for much of his prime, that was it. From 88-95, Hakeem had no all stars, except for Thorpe in 92.

Tim didn't really play alongside a star from 2001-2004. As long as you acknowledge that Hakeem's decline was rapid, the rest is moot, since that was my main point I made earlier. The fact that Tim was a Kawhi free throw away from his 3rd finals MVP at age 37 while Dream was putting up 10-6 at the same age is all I needed to see to deduce that.

[ShowtimeFan]

Duncan..... greatest big man of all time?

Should never be in the same sentence again. Just stick with comparisons to the PF crew and you're all set.

[Michael Jordan.]

Tim didn't really play alongside a star from 2001-2004. As long as you acknowledge that Hakeem's decline was rapid, the rest is moot, since that was my main point I made earlier. The fact that Tim was a Kawhi free throw away from his 3rd finals MVP at age 37 while Dream was putting up 10-6 at the same age is all I needed to see to deduce that.
As long as you understand why Hakeem's decline was rapid.

[spurraider21]

As long as you understand why Hakeem's decline was rapid.

I understand your theory for why Hakeem's decline was more rapid than Tim's

[ambchang]

Should never be in the same sentence again. Just stick with comparisons to the PF crew and you're all set.

Duncan clearly wasn't, Kareem pretty much had it on lock despite him being murdered by Moses Malone in his prime, and was dismantled by the twin towers during the end of his prime.

However, Duncan is on the same pedestal as Hakeem and Shaq, who are in the 2nd tier greatest of all time group.

Greatest big men of all time:

1st tier
Kareem

2nd tier
Hakeem
Moses
Duncan
Shaq

3rd tier:
Robinson
Walton
Barkley
Karl Malone
McHale

4th tier:
Ewing
Elvin Hayes
McAdoo
Reed

Too far back to accurately rank:
Wilt
Russell
Unseld

[ShowtimeFan]

Duncan clearly wasn't, Kareem pretty much had it on lock despite him being murdered by Moses Malone in his prime, and was dismantled by the twin towers during the end of his prime.

However, Duncan is on the same pedestal as Hakeem and Shaq, who are in the 2nd tier greatest of all time group.

Greatest big men of all time:

1st tier
Kareem

2nd tier
Hakeem
Moses
Duncan
Shaq

3rd tier:
Robinson
Walton
Barkley
Karl Malone
McHale

4th tier:
Ewing
Elvin Hayes
McAdoo
Reed

Too far back to accurately rank:
Wilt
Russell
Unseld

:toast

Interesting take putting Walton on the 3rd tier when his career was so limited, but he was so damn good when he was on so I've got no problem with that. Maybe Wilt and Russell are too far back to accurately rank, but by all accounts I think they've gotta be 2nd tier at minimum.

[Arnold Toht]

^ yet another spurfaggot that thinks Malone>Dirk :lol

[ShowtimeFan]

^ yet another spurfaggot that thinks Malone>Dirk :lol

:lol didn't even notice. Guess I don't think "big man" when I think Dirk

[Arnold Toht]

^ yeah pulling down 11 rebounds per game in the playoffs ain't big enough

[ambchang]

Never really thought of dirk either. Forgot about KG too. I will definitely out them in the third tier.

That said, laker troll acting like a sensitive Mav fan is funny.

[ShowtimeFan]

^ yeah pulling down 11 rebounds per game in the playoffs ain't big enough

Meh, career rebounding avg is closer to Kobe than Duncan so you'll excuse me for not thinking "big man"

[spurraider21]

big men are typically expected to man the paint and protect the rim