Records owned by K. Bryant

[Leetonidas]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

[whitemamba]

fail

[Leetonidas]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

[whitemamba]

:lol

[Leetonidas]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

[whitemamba]

^finally :lmao

[Leetonidas]

your first comment sums up these accomplishments nicely tbh

[spurraider21]

Shaq averaged 16 attempts to 2.5 assists but Kobe averages 20.4 fga to 4.8 assists so i'm not sure where that "record" came from

[whitemamba]

your first comment sums up these accomplishments nicely tbh

yes kobe sucks, hes the worst shooting gaurd ever...and when hes played your spurs in the playoffs its 4-1 Kobe and ring count its 5 Kobe Spurs 4, so what kind of franchise are you to lose to such a shitty gaurd..

[Leetonidas]

lol butthurt. who said he was the worst 2 guard ever? don't be so salty :lol

[whitemamba]

lol butthurt. who said he was the worst 2 guard ever? don't be so salty :lol

how can you be so good yet have so many failures>?

[Michael Jordan.]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

:rollin

[lefty]

Even Phil Jackson shoots better TBH :

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3642981/phil.0_standard_352.0.gif

[AchillesHeel]

Shaq averaged 16 attempts to 2.5 assists but Kobe averages 20.4 fga to 4.8 assists so i'm not sure where that "record" came from

I'm guessing for a guard, how many centers really average more than 2-3 assists per game?

[spurraider21]

I'm guessing for a guard, how many centers really average more than 2-3 assists per game?

yeah that was my point. it doesn't specify there. and tbh 4.8 assists per game isn't exactly a historically low # for a 2-guard

[Koolaid_Man]

Zero Dicks In The Ass

[whitemamba]

Zero Dicks In The Ass

i lold

[AchillesHeel]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/NBA_5b3a4c_1778005.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

Don't forget most quits and most teammates run off in NBA history :lol

[Leetonidas]

how can you be so good yet have so many failures>?

Is that a serious question?

[Koolaid_Man]

Zero Cum Loads Up His Ass

[Arnold Toht]

^ Thank Christ :lmao

[spurraider21]

^1-time Champion

[Arnold Toht]

^1-time Champion

Get over it already, 4-timer. Make a fucking free throw!

[spurraider21]

^ One and done :lol

Make the fucking playoffs!

[Bynumite]

Most rings among active playersPERIOD

[Arnold Toht]

Most rings among active playersPERIOD

Tim was so close :cry

[spurraider21]

Mavs were so close to making the playoffs :cry

[Michael Jordan.]

Most rings among active playersPERIOD
Does that include Vanessa's?

[ElNono]

Tim was so close :cry

^ Shame you Lakers never were 4-0 Swept :lmao

[irishock]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

Is that real?

[Thebesteva]

http://www.grandobsession.com/index_files/grand_obsession.jpg

[HI-FI]

where were we.....

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

[namlook]

Shaq averaged 16 attempts to 2.5 assists but Kobe averages 20.4 fga to 4.8 assists so i'm not sure where that "record" came from


I'm guessing for a guard, how many centers really average more than 2-3 assists per game?

Just off the top of my head I checked Kevin Martin's stats, a shooting guard. He averages .16 assists per shot while Kobe averages .24 assists per shot. LOL @ the OPs bullshit list.

Shaq is .15 assists per shot.

[Leetonidas]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the finals or playoffs. Using Kevin Martin to prop up Kobe :lol

[namlook]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the finals or playoffs. Using Kevin Martin to prop up Kobe :lol

Pretty sure? Not in the playoffs. Off the top of my head again I checked Iverson and he averaged fewer assists per shot in the playoffs than Kobe. And this was just the first guy I checked. Second guy I checked, Rick Barry, a HOF, and he too averaged fewer assists per shot than Kobe in the playoffs, and he was considered a great passer. :lol

George Gervin, another HOF, fewer assists per shot than Kobe in the playoffs (by a lot). I could go on and on...

[whitemamba]

Pretty sure? Not in the playoffs. Off the top of my head again I checked Iverson and he averaged fewer assists per shot in the playoffs than Kobe. And this was just the first guy I checked. Second guy I checked, Rick Barry, a HOF, and he too averaged fewer assists per shot than Kobe in the playoffs, and he was considered a great passer. :lol

George Gervin, another HOF, fewer assists per shot than Kobe in the playoffs (by a lot). I could go on and on...

namlook slappin mutha fuckas tbh

[Leetonidas]

:lol nitpicking at the assist:shot ratio because you know everything else is true

[namlook]

How about Jordan?

Jordan = .227 assists per shot on the playoffs
Kobe = .231 assists per shot in the playoffs

Selfish bastard!

:lol

[Leetonidas]

:lol still crying about assist ratios

[Arnold Toht]

How about Jordan?

Jordan = .227 assists per shot on the playoffs
Kobe = .231 assists per shot in the playoffs

Selfish bastard!

:lol

:cry but.... Michael knew he was the GOAT!! He's doing it for the benefit of everyone else on the team!! :cry

[whitemamba]

As for taking game winners, that one is the funniest, he shoots the ball with the game on the line more than anyone else, as well as for low shot clock, and last second shots... :lol

[LkrFan]

Zero Dicks In The Ass
...or the mouth tbh :lmao

[namlook]

As for taking game winners, that one is the funniest, he shoots the ball with the game on the line more than anyone else, as well as for low shot clock, and last second shots... :lol

Another funny one is among the top 10 scorers Kobe has the lowest shooting percentage when almost all of the top 10 scorers are big men and only two other players in the top 10 scorers are guards. Damn, Kobe sucks because HOF big men shot a higher percentage. LOL.

Oscar Robertson and Jordan are the other guards in the top 10. Oscar only shot two points shots. Jordan shot fewer 3 pt shots than Kobe. Robertson and Jordan both averaged 1.3 points per shot (1.36 and 1.31). And yeah Kobe sucks because he too has averaged 1.3 points per shot. :lol

[HI-FI]

...or the mouth tbh :lmao
I'm thinking of 6 but seeing
http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

[Kool Bob Love]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lb28i0.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8KxLBREVK6g/UJg-n1ReOJI/AAAAAAAAZK8/9Ydhc01q1Dk/s640/Michael-Jordan-GIF.gif

[whitemamba]

Another funny one is among the top 10 scorers Kobe has the lowest shooting percentage when almost all of the top 10 scorers are big men and only two other players in the top 10 scorers are guards. Damn, Kobe sucks because HOF big men shot a higher percentage. LOL.

Oscar Robertson and Jordan are the other guards in the top 10. Oscar only shot two points shots. Jordan shot fewer 3 pt shots than Kobe. Robertson and Jordan both averaged 1.3 points per shot (1.36 and 1.31). And yeah Kobe sucks because he too has averaged 1.3 points per shot. :lol

people cant seem to grasp the concept that if your bigger taller stronger, its easier to score..

[Leetonidas]

As for taking game winners, that one is the funniest, he shoots the ball with the game on the line more than anyone else, as well as for low shot clock, and last second shots... :lol

and yet LeBron has Kobe beat there as well :lmao

[whitemamba]

and yet LeBron has Kobe beat there as well :lmao

lol sure

[rayjayjohnson]

troof bombs tbh

[AchillesHeel]

Most rings among active playersPERIOD

Fish re-signed with OKC, nice try tho.

[AchillesHeel]

Just off the top of my head I checked Kevin Martin's stats, a shooting guard. He averages .16 assists per shot while Kobe averages .24 assists per shot. LOL @ the OPs bullshit list.

Shaq is .15 assists per shot.

Oh yes, Kevin Martin is such a stud and comparable to Kirby.

[spurraider21]

people cant seem to grasp the concept that if your bigger taller stronger, its easier to score..
MJ was a career 49.7% (bogged down by his Wizards seasons) shooter
Jerry West was a career 47.4% shooter (Kobe has never shot 47% for a single season)
Oscar Robertson was a career 48.5% shooter
Clyde Drexler was a career 47.2% shooter
George Gervin (not including ABA seasons) was a 50+% shooter for his career
Tony Parker, a tiny guy, is a career 49.4% shooter

Yeah, centers shoot high %'s, but guards can be efficient too. At least, if you aren't going to be efficient, you should be willing to defer to your hyper-efficient bigs more often than Kobe does

[namlook]

Oh yes, Kevin Martin is such a stud and comparable to Kirby.

That's strange. I would have thought Kevin Martin would be rated as a better player than Kobe here.

[Michael Jordan.]

With the game on the lineTrailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information.


Player
Makes
Attempts
FG%


Carmelo Anthony
21
44
47.7


Chris Paul
14
31
45.2


Shawn Marion
12
30
40


Brandon Roy
12
30
40


Hedo Turkoglu
12
30
40


Rashard Lewis
18
46
39.1


Glenn Robinson
14
36
38.9


Deron Williams
14
36
38.9


Mike Bibby
15
39
38.5


Dirk Nowitzki
25
65
38.5


Jalen Rose
12
32
37.5


Tim Duncan
23
62
37.1


Eddie Jones
13
36
36.1


Karl Malone
11
31
35.5


Ben Gordon
17
49
34.7


Chris Webber
18
52
34.6


Raymond Felton
12
36
33.3


LeBron James
23
69
33.3


Ray Allen
23
70
32.9


Gilbert Arenas
13
40
32.5


Vince Carter
31
96
32.3


Steve Francis
14
44
31.8


Damon Stoudamire
12
38
31.6


Nick Van Exel
16
51
31.4


Kobe Bryant
36
115
31.3


Jason Terry
14
45
31.1


Allen Iverson
21
68
30.9


Kevin Garnett
22
72
30.6


Ron Artest
9
30
30


Allan Houston
12
41
29.3


Entire league
2038
6861
29.7

[Michael Jordan.]

Jackson published that book in the interlude when he was not coaching the Lakers. That he doesn't talk that way is hardly bizarre -- it's admirable for a coach to keep his criticism of a colleague "in the family."

However, don't confuse Bryant's domination of the ball with Jackson's endorsement of the plan. In the same book, Jackson tells of his annoyance at Bryant's ball-hogging in crunch time. In one instance, he describes drawing up a play with multiple options, in crunch time of a 2004 playoff series against Houston. Bryant destroyed all the options; instead of setting a baseline screen for Shaquille O'Neal he ran straight to the ball. "With the twenty-four-second clock winding down," writes Jackson, "Kobe forced a long jumper, a horrible shot in the game's most critical possession. The ball did not reach the rim..."

Jackson also tells of marching, more than once, into Mitch Kupchak's office to demand that the Lakers trade Bryant. He writes things like:

"Kobe tends to hold on to the ball longer than necessary causing the offense to stagnate."
"He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."
"As usual, Kobe seemed intent on taking over."

[Michael Jordan.]

Similarly, Bryant looks like a great crunch-time scorer. He has the right skills, the right demeanor, the right highlights, the right jewelry. But as it turns out, Bryant's clutch like an SUV is safe.

There are a lot of misleading things in this world.

And let's be clear: The numbers that doom Bryant's campaign as the king of crunch time are not really statistics. They're not formulas, or algorithms. They're really just counting -- both makes and misses for the player and the team.

If you're asking me to pick one guy to make a shot with the game on the line, there's nothing complex about peeking at the record to see how well he has done that job in the past. Every number in that chart is a real moment of NBA basketball, with ten players on the court, and Bryant in a Lakers uniform, rising, firing, and -- most of the time -- missing. These things really happened, and as much as you might want to ignore opinion, or theory, there's no real reason to ignore 79 misses, broken plays, a shocking lack of passing, a coaching staff eager for more team play, and an elite team that gets below-par results with the game on the line.

[Michael Jordan.]

KOBE VS. LEBRON IN CLUTCH


Kobe
LeBron


PER
37.6
47.2


Pts/40
44.5
48.1


FG%
43 pct.
45 pct.


Reb/40
4.3
10.9


Ast/40
4.3
5.6


Steals
1.6
2.1


Blocks
0
1.8

[Michael Jordan.]

Bryant makes crunch-time defense easy for opponents by shooting just about every time he touches the ball (over a five-year period (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm), he mustered 56 clutch shots, to go with oneassist).

Fans of his raw machismo howl that such criticism misses the point, but the point is that when Bryant gets the ball in crunch time, it's a virtual certainty that he'll shoot it, and it's better than 2-1 odds that he'll miss.

[Michael Jordan.]

1996
Utah Jazz
Game 5
Miss
Bryant misses a game tying shot with 4 seconds left.


1999
San Antonio Spurs
Game 2
Miss
Bryant misses a game tying shot at the end of regulation


2000
Phoenix Suns
Game 2
Make
Bryant makes a game winning shot with 2 seconds left


2001
Philidephia 76ers
Game 1
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 20 seconds left.


2002
San Antonio Spurs
Game 2
Miss
Bryant misses a game tying shot at regulation


2002
San Antonio Spurs
Game 4
Make
Bryant makes a game winning shot with 5 seconds left


2002
Sacramento Kings
Game 4
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 4 seconds left


2002
Sacramento Kings
Game 5
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 8 seconds left


2002
Sacramento Kings
Game 7
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning tip shot with 8 seconds left


2003
Minnesota Timberwolves
Game 3
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot in OT with 13 seconds left.


2003
Minnesota Timberwolves
Game 3
Miss
Bryant misses a game tying shot in OT with 2 seconds left


2003
San Antonio Spurs
Game 1
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 13 seconds left.


2004
Houston Rockets
Game 1
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 17 seconds left.


2004
Houston Rockets
Game 4
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 3 seconds left.


2004
San Antonio Spurs
Game 5
Make
Bryant makes a game winning shot attempt with 12 seconds left.


2004
Detroit Pistons
Game 2
Make
Bryant makes a game tying shot at the buzzer.


2006
Phoenix Suns
Game 4
Make
Bryant makes a game tying shot with one second left.


2006
Phoenix Suns
Game 4
Make
Bryant makes a game winning shot at the buzzer.


2006
Phoenix Suns
Game 6
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 6 seconds left.


2008
San Antonio Spurs
Game 1
Make
Bryant makes the game winning shot with 23 seconds left.


2009
Utah Jazz
Game 3
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 2 seconds left.


2009
Orlando Magic
Game 2
Miss
Bryant has his game winning shot blocked with 8 sec left.


2010
Oklahoma City Thunder
Game 6
Miss
Bryant misses game winning shot with .5 seconds left.


2010
Phoenix Suns
Game 5
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot with 3 seconds left.


2011
Dallas Mavericks
Game 1
Miss
Bryant misses a game winning shot at the end of regulation

[Michael Jordan.]

HGoxIvuPtmo

[Michael Jordan.]

7NZJxPMIP5Q

[Clipper Nation]

With his final missed FGA on Tuesday night against HOU (came with 2:27 left in the 4th quarter), Kobe Bryant missed his 15,296th career field goal attempt and passed John Havlicek for the most field goal attempts missed in NBA history if you combine regular season and postseason numbers.

:lol Most bricks in NBA history

[Michael Jordan.]

Qd8mGzGK1Uc

[Michael Jordan.]

ZWZWhvKdzM8

[Michael Jordan.]

GPvz9MXK7tk

d1uYx0S67dI

[Clipper Nation]

http://i.imgur.com/ffm2RtR.png

[Clipper Nation]

http://i.imgur.com/AERChsj.png

[Michael Jordan.]

E5eIgJ-wjGI

[Michael Jordan.]

HLMZOVsyw1g

[Leetonidas]

Damn MJ is jizzing on whitemamba so hard he can't even reply :lol

*waits for lakerfan to change subject to timmy being a butt pirate*

[Michael Jordan.]

Damn MJ is jizzing on whitemamba so hard he can't even reply :lol

*waits for lakerfan to change subject to timmy being a butt pirate*

:lol Im waiting on whitemamba to :downspin: this shit

[whitemamba]

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg

[AchillesHeel]

MJ with no regard for human life on these bitches...you got nothing, it's OVER!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/4294703/vince-carter-says-its-over-o.gif

[Michael Jordan.]

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg

Outside of being on superstar loaded teams for his championships, it is very easy to knock him for his tendency to play “hero ball” and try to single-handedly bring his team back into games. If you simply look at his assists per game, as well as his field goal percentage, you can get a good look at the type of player that Bryant is. The highest amount of assists Bryant has ever recorded over the course of a season is 6.0, while in comparison the highest of LeBron James’ career is 8.6, and if you’re looking for a more direct comparison, as far as postion goes, the highest of Michael Jordan’s careerwas 8.0.
The facts continue pouring out when you look at field goal percentage, a true measure of efficiency. The highest of MJ’scareer was. 539, and the highest of LeBron’s career was this past season, at .565. In comparison, Bryant’s careerhighest is almost a full .100 lower than James, at .469. This shows Kobe’s tendency to keep the ball to himself, and occasionally be a black hole on offense.

[Michael Jordan.]

Gyzd0bOHH08

[Michael Jordan.]

81 points and Scoring
Often when I ask a Laker fan who they think the greatest scorer of all time is they reply with "Kobe of course." When I further question them the first response is "he scored 81 points."


This is probably the most illogical response possible. Kobe's 81 points against the Raptors (who were the worst defensive team in the NBA at the time) was the second highest single scoring total in NBA history by an individual. Surely using that logic then Wilt Chamberlain at 100 points in a game would make him the best scorer ever? Using the same logic would mean that David Thompson (career high 73 points) and Elgin Balyor (career high 71 points) are better scorers than Michael Jordan (career high 69 points)

[Michael Jordan.]

When you compare his FG% to other elite scorers; both past and present, it's shocking to see how low is FG% is. Additionally more than 60% of Bryant’s 50 point games have come against bottom 10 defenses in the league. While Kobe is to be commended for taking advantage against poor teams it is important to put these 50-point out bursts into perspective when comparing them to other player’s 50-point games.

[Michael Jordan.]

While Kobe may pass Jordan in all time total points it’s important to recognize that Kobe has already played approximately 200 games more than Jordan and has yet to reach his point total while shooting approximately 4% lower from the field. Additionally, by the time he passes Jordan in all time total points he will move into number 1 on the all time missed shot list while only being number 3 in total points made. Not to mention the numerous other records that Jordan will still hold scoring wise.

[Michael Jordan.]

Clutch Myth
Another myth that lives when it comes to Kobe is that he's 'clutch', he delivers the game winning shot when it's needed on a regular basis. I hate to burst your bubble but this simply isn't true. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Although there are varying definitions as to what 'clutch' is, it's widely accepted that a clutch shot is within the last 24 seconds of the game when your team is tied or down by 1,2 or 3 points.


Accurate as of March 17th 2013

Bryant is 45 of 138 - 32.6% - in the regular season and 7 of 28 - 25% -in the playoffs


Compared to some of the superstars of the NBA both past and present:


Michael Jordan - 33 for 58 - 56.9% (9 for 18 in the playoffs)
LeBron James – 23 for 69 – 33.3% (5 for 12 in the playoffs)
Carmelo Anthony – 21 for 44 – 47%
Vince Carter – 31 for 96 – 32.3%

[Leetonidas]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hfi35y.jpg

[da_suns_fan]

You could do this all day.

Most playoff games a player shot 20+ shots while shooting less than 40%:


1 Kobe Bryant G 1999 2012 41
2 Allen Iverson G 1999 2007 34
3 Karl Malone* F 1988 2003 28
4 Michael Jordan* G 1987 1998 20

[AchillesHeel]

:lol MJ destroying Kirby's legacy per par, not one reasonable retort from bandwagoner laker fans. They'll just ignore the facts and continue their bullshit trolling, posting random gifs and images.

[Michael Jordan.]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hfi35y.jpg


:lol MJ destroying Kirby's legacy per par, not one reasonable retort from bandwagoner laker fans. They'll just ignore the facts and continue their bullshit trolling, posting random gifs and images.
:lol

[Michael Jordan.]

_y5jwt0brqk

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Damn, Lakerfan gonna have to make hundreds of "Tim Duncan gay" threads to deflect from this ownage, tbh.....

[da_suns_fan]

The thing is his percentages are just going to get worse. He's been drifting further and further away from the basket as he's gotten older.

Last season, he started out red hot by shooting more near the basket. Then he started to drift off again as the season wore on and his shooting percentage came back down to its usual "meh".

[Michael Jordan.]

PsmuT7I4G6M

[Leetonidas]

but he scores a lot of PPG!

[Michael Jordan.]

9OQGFi_hLwM

[Michael Jordan.]

XND13PeLA1o

[Michael Jordan.]

nwr2Tc_CA34

[Michael Jordan.]

neFJ7KmpEG0

[Michael Jordan.]

xNuoXVrm0CY

[Michael Jordan.]

kD837UhQmcg

[Michael Jordan.]

xdIEgO2PUqE

[Michael Jordan.]

sLCxAmIIYXc

[Michael Jordan.]

fDxyx6JOKhg

[Michael Jordan.]

q3zub7JDHi8

[Michael Jordan.]

HwXsRkpk2m4

[Michael Jordan.]

c5yHsipowNw

[AchillesHeel]

Kobe also plays clutch D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzgjfqWIOI

[Arnold Toht]

Nothing but retaliation for 6

[Leetonidas]

MJ is not even a Spurs fan :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Lakerfan avoiding this thread like the fuckin plague :lol

[ElNono]

Nothing but retaliation for 6

^ Nothing but Swept... Lakers :lmao

[hater]

:lmao

[Leetonidas]

pussy ass mofos duckin me :lol

[The Franchise]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jsSsdBMCy34

[Kool Bob Love]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan

[Leetonidas]

:downspin:

[Michael Jordan.]

:downspin:

Lakerfan afraid.
whitemamba Lakersarethebesteva Koolaid_Man

[Clipper Nation]

Lakerfan starting more Tim Duncan gay threads to deflect from this :lol

[Leetonidas]

trying to bury my thread in a barrage of faggotry. :lol did kool call narutoluva up and tell him to get on asap for some damage control?

[Michael Jordan.]

trying to bury my thread in a barrage of faggotry. :lol did kool call narutoluva up and tell him to get on asap for some damage control?
:lol

[Michael Jordan.]

From 1998-99 to 2000-01, Shaq made the most shots in the league each year despite never ranking in the top three for field goal attempts, and made 57.2 percent or more of his shots. And that shooting percentage isbelow his career average, a 58.2 percent mark that is the NBA's all-time lead. (And those years were also Kobe's best shooting years. Maybe having Shaq around helped?)

[Michael Jordan.]

And while Bill Simmons will probably tell jokes about Kobe's 6-for-24 clunker against the Celtics in Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals until he can no longer tell jokes, Gasol coming up big against the Kendrick Perkins-less C's in the final two games of the series (17 points, 13 rebounds, and nine assists in Game 6, which saw Perkins play just over six minutes, and a 19-18 in Game 7) was what helped the Lakers come back from a 3-2 hole, and he was even better in Games 1 (23 and 14) and 2 (25-8 and six blocks). Kobe's best two scoring games that series (38 points in Game 5, and 33 in Game 4) both came in losses.

[Michael Jordan.]

“Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn’t going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game.”

-PJ

[Michael Jordan.]

The first table includes 15 active players who have attempted at least 650 "clutch" shots since the 2000-01 season. Again, for this set, ‘clutch' is defined as "the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points". Playoffs are included.

"Clutch" since 2000 (click column header to sort)

Player
FG
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
Ast'd
%Ast'd
Best
Worst


Kobe
606
1525
0.397
99
351
0.282
148
0.244
46%
32%


Pierce
450
1163
0.387
97
298
0.326
185
0.411
44%
21%


Dirk
443
1036
0.428
75
229
0.328
206
0.465
48%
37%


LeBron
461
1003
0.460
93
297
0.313
117
0.254
55%
37%


Vince
401
1001
0.401
67
217
0.309
159
0.397
50%
36%


R.Allen
371
0916
0.405
160
450
0.356
192
0.518
48%
34%


Terry
381
0870
0.438
108
285
0.379
164
0.430
55%
33%


KG
368
0848
0.434
8
36
0.222
212
0.576
65%
33%


Wade
321
0774
0.415
30
124
0.242
59
0.184
47%
32%


Duncan
376
0818
0.460
2
20
0.100
156
0.415
55%
36%


Nash
370
0806
0.459
125
314
0.398
65
0.176
56%
35%


A.Miller
269
0678
0.397
19
82
0.232
64
0.238
47%
26%


Billups
309
0796
0.388
120
367
0.327
110
0.356
46%
24%


Melo
276
0655
0.421
31
111
0.279
140
0.507
52%
38%


TMac
266
0714
0.373
44
164
0.268
89
0.335
42%
35%


Avg.
378
907
0.417
72
223
0.291
138
0.367
50%
33%


Observations:


Of the 15 players listed, Kobe Bryant's (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21869/kobe-bryant) shooting percentage (40%) was below average.

[Michael Jordan.]

"Clutch" since 2006 (click column header to sort)

Player
FG
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
Ast'd
%Ast'd
Best
Worst




Kobe
317
769
0.412
58
185
0.314
69
0.218
46%
39%


LeBron
333
714
0.466
74
231
0.320
79
0.237
55%
42%


Dirk
235
541
0.434
34
107
0.318
107
0.455
48%
40%


Wade
205
507
0.404
27
101
0.267
34
0.166
47%
32%


Durant
191
479
0.399
40
123
0.325
103
0.539
47%
35%


Melo
193
447
0.432
23
72
0.319
84
0.435
52%
42%


Pierce
167
430
0.388
32
97
0.330
60
0.359
44%
21%


Vince
185
420
0.440
42
117
0.359
72
0.389
50%
38%


Russ
150
403
0.372
13
56
0.232
23
0.153
42%
30%


CP3
187
430
0.435
23
73
0.315
22
0.118
50%
37%


JJ
174
449
0.388
40
114
0.351
47
0.270
46%
32%


Iggy
158
394
0.401
24
112
0.214
28
0.177
48%
31%


Rose
168
401
0.419
4
31
0.129
23
0.137
44%
40%


R.Allen
151
391
0.386
78
215
0.363
105
0.695
44%
34%


Roy
166
371
0.447
24
71
0.338
26
0.157
48%
36%


Avg.
199
476
0.415
36
114
0.300
59
0.300
47%
35%

[Michael Jordan.]

2012 Stats
Andrew Bynum - Game Within 5 Points With 3:00 or Less Remaining
4th Quarter: 17-21 FG's (80.9%) (data here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bynuman01&event_code=fga&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&quarter=4&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=0-5))
Overtime: 6-6 FG's (100%) (data here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bynuman01&event_code=fga&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&quarter=5&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=0-5))
Bynum Total: 23-27 FG's (85.2%)
Kobe Bryant - Game Within 5 Points With 3:00 or Less Remaining
4th Quarter: 23-60 FG's (38.3%) (data here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&event_code=fga&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&quarter=4&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=0-5))
Overtime: 1-12 FG's (8.3%) (data here (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&event_code=fga&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&quarter=5&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=0-5))
Bryant Total: 24-72 FG's (33.3%)

[Michael Jordan.]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/784/898/TeamPerformance_original.png?1364382920

[Michael Jordan.]

Here is the truth

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Regular season 5 point or less game
549-1371 40.04 FG% 96-331 29.0 3P%

2000-2012 4th quarter/OT 5 minutes or less left Postseason 5 point or less game
86-219 39.3 FG% 12-42 28.7 3P%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Regular Season less than 30 seconds left
48-155 30.96%

2000-2012 Shots to take lead/tie Postseason less than 30 seconds left
7-23 30.4%

Game winning/tying shots Regular season less than 5 seconds left
25-85 29.4 FG%

Game winning/tying shots Postseason less than 5 seconds left
3-14 21.4 FG%

[Michael Jordan.]

Can i post this here?

All playoff stats.

This year in the 4th Kobe is 9-24 38% and with under 3 minutes in the 4th he is 2-7 29%

How about we look at Kobes 4th quarter last year?

Kobe shot 12-39 31% in the 4th and 3-18 with less then 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter! 3-18!!!!!!!!!!!bahahahahaha oh kobe u suckkkk.

THATS 17%!

IN 10'

Kobe clutch master Bryant shot 37% in the 4th....

HE SHOT 29% IN THE 4TH AGAINST BOSTON 12-41

In 07' Kobe shot 10-34 29% in the 4th and 3-9 with less than 3 minutes remaining...... omgggg Kobe please practice or something.

In 06' Kobe shot 16-43 in the 4th for 37% and 4-14 29% when under 3 minutes.....

In 04' Kobe shot 46-126 37% in the 4th and with less then 3 minutes in the 4th he shot a misserable 10-38 26%.




Last year against dallas LeBron was 7-21 in the 4th 33% and 4-13 with less than 3 minutes in the 4th.

Kobe last year against dallas was 6-19 32% and 2-9 22% under 3 minutes in the 4th.

Oh and Kobe got swept by Dallas in the 2nd round.

Interesting when talking about clutch stats last year aye?

And when you dig through Kobes whole history it is just hilarious what you find.

Oh and just for a bonus Kobe last year vs the hornets was 6-20 30% in the 4th and 1-9 with under 3 minutes....11%




MARGIN LESS THaN 5 in 4TH Q

Kobe combined between NO and dallas shot 1-6 last year with 5 or fewer points in the 4th with less than 3 minutes.

Kobe was straight up 0-6 against NO in the 4th.

Kobe shot 4-15 28% within 5 or fewer points against boston in 10'

He was 1-5 under 3 minutes with the same margin.

Against orlando in 09 he was 6-19 32% and 2-8 under 3 minutes.

in 06 Kobe was 7-25 28% under 3 minutes he was 3-11 27%



This year?

This year Kobe is 2-7 29%and 0-2 under 3 minutes.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262638

[Leetonidas]

Still awaiting Lakerfan response

[HI-FI]

mods might have to ban MJ, he is killing off half the traffic with truth bombs.

[Michael Jordan.]

mods might have to ban MJ, he is killing off half the traffic with truth bombs.

:lol Shutting them down.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Lakerfan lurking this thread but unable to respond
:lol Kirby = most overrated player of all time

[Michael Jordan.]

:lol Lakerfan lurking this thread but unable to respond
:lol Kirby = most overrated player of all time

Christ, you'd think.they would play the 5> 4 card. Oh wait :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

:lmao Lakerfan created a Bill Russell troll :rollin

[Leetonidas]

:lol Bill Russel
:lol dominating 6'5" honkies
:lol 11 rings in an era where no one could dribble
:lol confused for morgan freeman

[Michael Jordan.]

Q-mT99HCFFI

[Michael Jordan.]

VquoPzITjSI

[Michael Jordan.]

G2DLx7oTbRk

[Michael Jordan.]

Q4HSDkNJXlQ

[Michael Jordan.]

BWwRMiQ5IK0

[Michael Jordan.]

Tm9l1T_0Mt8

[Leetonidas]

:lol saved by scrubs

[Michael Jordan.]

iYQDsZljAOY

[Michael Jordan.]

Shaq years

With Kobe: 285-126 (.693)
Without Kobe: 33-16 (.673)

With Shaq: 292-110 (.726)
Without Shaq: 26-32 (.448)




Middle 3 years

With Kobe: 112-111 (.502)
Without Kobe: 9-14 (.391)

With Odom: 106-94 (.530)
Without Odom: 15-31 (.326)




Gasol years

With Kobe: 308-147 (.677)
Without Kobe: 14-7 (.667)

With Gasol: 257-112 (.696)
Without Gasol: 35-26 (.574)

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe and Lebron last min clutch stats in playoffs
James: 13/26 http://goo.gl/7xeJG
Kobe: 10/37 http://goo.gl/Ap4fq

[Michael Jordan.]

4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points.

James: 89-202 (.441)
Bryant: 91-238 (.382)

[Michael Jordan.]

With Shaq (’96-97 to ’03-04)Kobe entered the league as only the second high schooler in 20 years to make the leap (Kevin Garnett did it the year before). After the Charlotte Hornets made him the 13th overall pick, he was dealt to the Lakers for soon-to-not-be-necessary-due-to-Shaq’s-arrival Vlade Divac. The deal was presumably made because Bryant and his family wanted him to play in a big market; Arn Tellem, his agent in 1996, called playing for the Hornets “an impossibility.” For the next eight years he was paired with Shaquille O’Neal, and the last five of which they played under HOF coach Phil Jackson.
Bryant only started 7 games during his first two years in the league, so any examination of the team’s improvement in that time has almost nothing to do with him, so I won’t do that (although I will note they went 117-47 [.713] during those two years and then dropped to 31-19 [.620] his first year as a full-time starter and major contributor in ’98-99)

[whitemamba]

Is MJ the saltiest person on this board?

[Michael Jordan.]

In ’99-00, LA went 0-1 (.000) when both were missing, 1-1 (.500) when Shaq was out but Kobe played, 15-3 (.833) when Kobe was injured or came off the bench (he did so right after returning from his injury) but Shaq played/started, and 51-10 (.836) together.
In ’00-01, LA went 5-3 (.625) when Shaq was out but Kobe played, 11-3 (.786) when Kobe was out but Shaq played, and 40-20 (.667) together.
In ’01-02, LA went 7-8 (.467) when Shaq was out but Kobe played, 2-0 (1.000) when Kobe was out but Shaq played, and 49-16 (.754) together.
Adding everything up for that three year stretch that included three championships, Hall of Fame coach Phil Jackson controlling egos and steering the ship, plus a phenomenal supporting cast, the Lakers were 0-1 (.000) with both out, 13-12 (.520) with Shaq out, 28-6 (.823) with Kobe out or getting back into shape as a reserve, and 140-46 (.753) together.

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: Neither Shaq or Kobe ever missed a playoff game during their eight years together, so all we have to go on is their regular season numbers. Considering Shaq was known for coasting in the regular season and Kobe has gotten the reputation of always having his switch in the “on” position no matter what the stakes, it seems even odder that the Lakers did better without Kobe than they did with him in this time. When you look at their playoff performances together, Shaq rightfully won all three Finals MVP’s during their championships and certainly never had some of the horrendous shooting percentages that Kobe put up during their ’99-00 through '03-04 post-seasons (ex: Bryant shot 41% throughout the '04 playoffs, and 34% in those four Finals losses). There’s not a lot of ways to look at these W-L numbers: Kobe’s impact was slightly negative to the Lakers during his first eight years.

[Michael Jordan.]

The middle three years (’04-05 to ’06-07)After the growing feud between Shaq and Kobe reached a head in the 2004 Finals that they lost to Detroit, Shaq signed with the Heat in the offseason, Phil Jackson retired after reportedly telling GM Mitch Kupchak “I won’t coach this team next year if is still here. He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid" (and writing an entire book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Season:_A_Team_in_Search_of_Its_Soul) describing how impossible it was working with Kobe), Gary Payton and Karl Malone were gone after so-so seasons and bad playoffs, and crunch-time maestro Derek Fisher got out of town so he wasn’t left with the wreckage. That wreckage was a Lakers squad that sported Kobe Bryant but none of the other key factors to their recent success (Devean George did remain from the three-peat). [B]The team, however, picked up Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Chucky Atkins. That means LA’s #2 through #4 players were a 15-10 PF who provided extreme defensive versatility and great passing out of the post, a 16-6 SF who also averaged a team-high 1.4 steals per game, and a 14 ppg PG with a good 4.4 to 1.8 Assist-Turnover rate (2.44 ratio) who shot 39% from deep on 5.5 attempts per game. It wasn’t the same as having Shaq, PJ, and Fisher, but not a bad supporting trio. With Kobe playing that season, they went 28-38 (.424), and without him they went 6-10 (.375). We have to look at the final month of the season to get a clearer picture of how this team operated, however. Going into their March 18 contest with the Pacers, the Lakers were 32-32 and right in the thick of making the playoffs. Odom went down with a left shoulder injury that night and the team finished a disastrous 2-16 the rest of the way, including 2-14 (.125) with Kobe in the lineup. It’s hard to argue that Kobe was more important to the ’04-05 team than Odom considering how bad they got without the one compared to the other.

[Leetonidas]

Is MJ the saltiest person on this board?

:lol no comeback for the calculated shit bombs the GOAT is dropping

[whitemamba]

:lol no comeback for the calculated shit bombs the GOAT is dropping

the constant discusiion of Kobe vs MJ says enough...

:lol duncan

[Michael Jordan.]

Phil Jackson returned to the Lakers’ sideline in ’05-06 ($$$), the Pacific Division got much easier as the Suns’ and Kings’ records both took a big tumble that year, and Lamar Odom stuck around (who now lead the team in rebounds and assists). The rest of the lineup certainly looked worse on paper, although the forever-panned Smush Parker provided almost identical shooting percentages to Kobe plus much better A-TO and steal rates, plus all the other big men (Chris Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown) shot at or over 50% for the year, with Cook also hitting 43% from deep while the other two both posted Rebound Percentages above 14.0, making the Lakers one of only three teams to have multiple players rebounding at that rate for the year. All that being said, the Lakers went 45-35 (.563) with Kobe and 0-2 (.000) without, but I’ll add that they also lost their only two games without Odom as well.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol There is no conversation of Kirby vs. MJ besides among delusional Lakerfan....

[Michael Jordan.]

In ’06-07, Phil Jackson was obviously still there, Lamar Odom remained great in all facets of the game, Luke Walton’s cerebral play did enough to earn him a huge contract, Smush Parker was about the same as the year before (plus he now averaged more steals than Bryant even though he played 10 less minutes per), Kwame Brown was now shooting a phenomenal 59% from the field, and youngster Andrew Bynum played in every game and recorded 10 double-doubles. Again, not the best supporting cast, but we see plenty of teams with much much worse every year. The Lakers went 39-38 (.506) with Kobe in the lineup and 3-2 (.600) without. Again taking a look at Odom’s numbers, the team was 30-26 (.536) with him and 12-14 (.462) without, including losing 5 straight in March during the only 5 games he missed after January.

[Leetonidas]

the constant discusiion of Kobe vs MJ says enough...

:lol duncan

lol you faggots were comparing Kobe to Kevin Martin the other day, MJ vs. Kobe is not even a debate so stfu :lmao

http://i40.tinypic.com/y00li.jpg

[whitemamba]

:lol There is no conversation of Kirby vs. MJ besides among delusional Lakerfan....

only conversation blake is in is featured on the animal planet's special evolution of the primates.

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: I went into a little detail with these three rosters simply because the story over time has been that Kobe carried 4 carcasses around the court with him for three years, but it’s just not true; he had more to work with and a better coaching situation than Jason Kidd ever experienced in his prime. Overall, Kobe’s influence on LA’s W-L records wasn't very noticeable (111-111 with him, 9-14 without --- I know fans will want to jump on this as proof of his influence, so I'll point out that 14 of those contests were against teams at or above .500, meaning the expected W-L record for a .500 club against that lineup is 9-14), and he certainly wasn’t able to keep the team afloat when Lamar Odom was injured. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that Odom was the one carrying the franchise during this time based on the Lakers’ W-L records with and without him. The numbers indicate that Kobe’s impact was minimal.

[Leetonidas]

the fuck does blake griffin have to do with anything :lol

[Clipper Nation]

only conversation blake is in is featured on the animal planet's special evolution of the primates.
Trying to deflect to other players won't change all the truth bombs that MJ is dropping, s:loln :downspin:

[Michael Jordan.]

With Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom (’07-08 to ’10-11)Three things happened during the ’07-08 season that helped define a new era of Lakers basketball and which ultimately took a 42-win team and instantly turned them into a 57-25 contender. First, Derek Fisher returned. Second, Andrew Bynum’s career took off. He played 28 minutes per game and even started 25 times through January 13, averaging 13 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.1 blocks, while shooting an unreal 64%. The Lakers, with a legit big-bodied center who brought it at both ends while playing next to Lamar Odom, were 25-11 at that point (1-0 without Bynum). He went down for the season that night, and suddenly LA was playing like they did during that three year stretch of mediocrity, going 5-5 over the next 10 contests. Third, at that point the team completed one of the most laughably one-sided trades in league history, picking up All-Star big man Pau Gasol from Memphis. With two talented big men again manning the paint, the Lakers went on a 15-3 tear, including a season-high 10-game win streak. Gasol hurt his ankle two minutes into his 19th game as a Laker and was gone for ten consecutive games, and again the club went 5-5. He returned in April, and LA finished strong, going 7-1 the rest of the way before making it all the way to the Finals. Although Bryant played all 82 games that year so we can’t see how the team did with and without him, we do see that the team was 46-15 (.754) with either a Gasol-Odom or Bynum-Odom frontcourt, but only 11-10 (.524) without at least two first-rate bigs in the paint, despite Kobe’s best efforts.

[Clipper Nation]

the fuck does blake griffin have to do with anything :lol
Lakerfan begged him to cross the hallway after his rookie contract was up, he rejected them by re-signing with the Clipps, so now they hate out of pure saltiness :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: Kobe only missed games in this era in ’09-10, so there isn’t much to go on in terms of calculating his impact to the team’s W-L record. When he missed an extremely difficult 5-game stretch that season, the Lakers responded beautifully with Shannon Brown starting in his place, rattling off a surprisingly easy 4-1 record. The only dips the team took during this four-year period occurred in ’07-’08, and those correlated with the absences of Bynum and Gasol. There is nothing to indicate that the success of the Lakers over the past four years was dependent on Bryant. In fact, it seems pretty clear it depended heavily on the health of their frontcourt. Kobe’s impact was somewhere right around none, with more evidence to suggest it was slightly negative than slightly positive.

[Michael Jordan.]

OverallKobe has played in three distinct Laker eras, and the W-L numbers tell us the same thing for each one: he did not make a positive impact on his team. I provided more contextual information than I have for the other players so that skeptics can’t blow these numbers off as out of context. The basic thing you have to notice is that his squads have never done disproportionately poor without him—in fact they’ve often gotten better—yet they’re always right around .500 when they don’t have a dominant frontcourt manned either by Shaq or multiple talented bigs as was the case years later, even with Kobe and everything else being the same. Considering his efficiency stats have been subpar throughout his entire career (particularly shooting and passing/ballhandling), and he’s been well known to attempt difficult shots and steal attempts with little regard for his team’s strengths or systems, this conclusion shouldn’t be as large of a shock as many people might assume.

[whitemamba]

lol you faggots were comparing Kobe to Kevin Martin the other day, MJ vs. Kobe is not even a debate so stfu :lmao

http://i40.tinypic.com/y00li.jpg
http://i.imgflip.com/39090.jpg


Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: I went into a little detail with these three rosters simply because the story over time has been that Kobe carried 4 carcasses around the court with him for three years, but it’s just not true; he had more to work with and a better coaching situation than Jason Kidd ever experienced in his prime. Overall, Kobe’s influence on LA’s W-L records wasn't very noticeable (111-111 with him, 9-14 without --- I know fans will want to jump on this as proof of his influence, so I'll point out that 14 of those contests were against teams at or above .500, meaning the expected W-L record for a .500 club against that lineup is 9-14), and he certainly wasn’t able to keep the team afloat when Lamar Odom was injured. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that Odom was the one carrying the franchise during this time based on the Lakers’ W-L records with and without him. The numbers indicate that Kobe’s impact was minimal.

the salt

Trying to deflect to other players won't change all the truth bombs that MJ is dropping, s:loln :downspin:

:lol hiding behind MJs dick

[Michael Jordan.]

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/9/1/its-all-about-the-ws-kobe-bryant.html

[whitemamba]

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/9/1/its-all-about-the-ws-kobe-bryant.html

the 80's

[irishock]

I know HH ain't behind the MJ troll, so how the fuck is it? :lol

[HI-FI]

Lakerfan getting a taste of what Syria has coming tbh.

[whitemamba]

Lakerfan getting a taste of what Syria has coming tbh.

:lol US doesnt have the balls, bunch of broke ass mother fuckers

[Leetonidas]

you realize the US has warships on standby ready to bomb the shit out of those towel heads right

[Suspect]

you realize the US has warships on standby ready to bomb the shit out of those towel heads right
Russia warned us not to do anything OR ELSE

[Michael Jordan.]

Am I gonna have to make a direct thread since Koolaid_Man Bynumite are avoiding this thread?

[Leetonidas]

because koolaid is a little fuckface who would rather talk about who he perceives to be a gay man than defend his idol in the face of overwhelming ownage

[TDMVPDPOY]

beggin a white girl for sex, lol kome

[AchillesHeel]

lol Lakerfans avoiding these threads like the plague, respect to my nigga MJ.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dude doesnt have any records when lebron has already exceeded them...lol kome

[Michael Jordan.]

Who's ready for more truthbombs?

[Leetonidas]

not lakerfan!

[namlook]

Overall

Kobe has played in three distinct Laker eras, and the W-L numbers tell us the same thing for each one: he did not make a positive impact on his team.


Should have stayed in school MJ. Only a certifiable moron would try and make this case.

[Michael Jordan.]

Immediate Impact

What do Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, and Wilt Chamberlain have in common? If you guessed they all wonNBA Rookie of the Year (http://www.nba.com/history/awards_rookieofyear.html) honors, you would be correct. Furthermore, what do those players and Bill Russell and Magic Johnson have in common? Magic Johnson won Finals MVP (http://www.nba.com/history/awards_rookieofyear.html) in his rookie season. Bill Russell anchored a defense that would help lead the Boston Celtics to its franchise's first NBA championship.

So the answer to that question is that all of these players had immediate impacts. Larry Bird joined a team in his rookie season that finished 29-53, and led them to a 61-21 record and the Eastern Conference Finals. Only to lose, but that very next season, they went on to win the championship. Wilt Chamberlain came into the league and immediately dominated, averaging 37 points and 27 rebounds a game while also taking a team that finished 32-40 in the season before to a 49-26 record.

Michael Jordan took the league by storm (http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_rookie_090825.html) by joining a squad that finished 27-55 the season before, and leading them to a playoff appearance in his rookie season at 38-44. He averaged 28.2 points a game, 5.9 assists a game, 6.5 rebounds a game, and 2.4 steals a game.
Shaq (http://www.nesn.com/2011/06/shaquille-oneals-rookie-season-remains-one-of-the-best-in-nba-history.html) was no different. He came into the league and averaged 23.4 points a game and 13.9 rebounds a game though they missed the playoffs.

The common trend here is that all of these players made immediate impacts on their teams. Conversely, Kobe Bryant was the complete opposite. He wasn't a factor at all in his rookie season. He wasn't a factor until his sophomore season. Overall, his numbers in his first three seasons are underwhelming. Many in favor of Kobe like to omit this portion of his career, but this is a pretty big red flag. If Kobe is one of the top 5 all time great players like so many have mentioned him as, then why couldn't he make the immediate impact like those players I mentioned?

[Leetonidas]

we do know that he is directly responsible for costing the Lakers a 2004 championship, seems pretty negative to me tbh

[Michael Jordan.]

The three championships with ShaqHere is where the problem lies. In that threepeat, Shaq was the best player for the Lakers. He was the straw that stirred the drink. He was the guy that was the main focus for the opposing defense. Shaq was fouled ad nauseam, drew double teams, and sometimes even triple teams. Shaq was the guy on those Laker teams. He dominated despite the defense throwing everything at him and the kitchen sink. He made Kobe's job a lot easier by drawing all the defensive focus. He dominated every Finals. No, Shaq didn't make Kobe. Kobe was great in his own right. But Shaq was the guy, and Kobe benefited by not having to see the double teams that Shaq had to.

[Michael Jordan.]

The years after Shaq, pre-Pau Gasol
This was a period where Kobe had a chance to establish himself as one of the greatest players to ever live. He was between the ages of 26-28. Free from the Shaq drama, and free to have the offense ran completely around him. They were great years. The 81 point game comes to mind. One of the greatest games the world has ever seen. This game contributed to a lot of the reason why Kobe is overrated. While it was an all time great game, he took a ridiculous 46 shots, and only had two assists to three turnovers. His 46 shots accounted for .527% of his team's shots. That was a problem. Kobe had great statistical seasons at the expense of his teammates.

[Michael Jordan.]

Those teams were mediocre. One team won only 34 games, and the other teams won 45 and 42 games. Although he did make the playoffs twice in those three years with a pretty horrible supporting cast.
This wouldn't be held against him if he wasn't in the complete prime of his career. He was at the age where he should have improved his game dramatically and became a legitimate superstar. He did do just that, but it didn't translate to team success. At the end of the day, what a player does for his team is what matters most here. At the peak of Kobe's career, he never got past the first round. His teammates were bad, but is that a legitimate excuse?

[Michael Jordan.]

LeBron James led a team to the NBA Finals with a starting line up that consisted of Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow, and Sasha Pavlovic. The East wasn't a great conference, but the Cavs beat a great Detroit team in order to reach the Finals.

[Michael Jordan.]

In Kobe's best season of his career, he put up MVP worthy numbers. (In a year where he scored 81 points and many considered him the MVP) However, he came up short in the playoffs against the Suns in a series they had full control of 3-1. Was the West so tough that year that The Black Mamba couldn't make the Finals? The Lakers held a 3-1 series lead (http://valleyofthesuns.com/2012/05/14/phoenix-suns-still-last-team-come-back-3-1-deficit/) versus a Suns' team that had no big men to speak of, and played little-to-no-defense. Was that such a tough task? Was it such a tough task to beat the Los Angeles Clippers? Or how about the Dallas Mavericks? It was by far Kobe's best season of his career even until this day, but the way it ended left a lot to be desired. It was a season where Kobe had a legitimate shot to make the Finals even with a poor cast in the way that LeBron did in 2007.

[Michael Jordan.]

The Pau Gasol yearsThese are the years where Kobe Bryant established himself in a historical sense with other all time greats. As soon as Pau Gasol was traded (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8537-pau-gasol-kwame-brown-trade-grizzlies-impact) to the Lakers, they were an immediate title contender. It would vault Kobe to MVP status. He finally won his first NBA MVP award, and eventually would win two Finals MVPs. That is all great. Here is the problem.
It took, arguably, one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history to make the Lakers a title contender again. Pau Gasol has arguably been just as good as Kobe in each season. He has more win shares than Kobe since that trade to this day. He was arguably the Finals MVP in a tough Finals versus the Boston Celtics in 2010. A series in which Kobe shot 6-24 in Game 7. No, Pau wasn't the best player on those Laker teams, but if you really wanted to, you could make the case that he was, because Kobe never really separated himself from Pau in the way that other all time greats did. Meaning, there was no question that Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, or even Shaq were the best players during most if not all of their championship seasons. Kobe was the best player on these teams, but he left it up for much debate.

[Michael Jordan.]

Finals performancesAs for his Finals MVPs, he was worthy of both of them, but Pau Gasol was also worthy of one of them. This goes back to the point about Kobe not doing enough to separate himself from the rest of his teammates. Kobe didn't do that in 2010. You can make a strong case for Pau. He was just as important to that championship as Kobe was.
Overall, when stacked up against other all time greats, Kobe's performances in the Finals are underwhelming, and he doesn't have that stand out performance that will be etched in your mind until the day you close your eyes for the last time.

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe simply needed more rings and Finals MVPs to bolster his position on all time list. Five rings is quite an impressive feat, but in three of them, he was the 2nd best player at best, and the other two, he was slightly the best player. When you consider that he has played on title contenders for almost the entirety of his career, is five rings really that impressive?

[Michael Jordan.]

In Kobe's 16 seasons in the league, he hasn't had a team great enough to win a championship in exactly three of them. Literally every other team he has been on has had the talent around it to win a championship. That's 13 seasons, and only five rings when you consider the franchise has 16 NBA championships. Many seem to think that the Lakers weren't good enough to win a championship last year. Excuse me, but is having a defensive specialist like Artest, two top 5 big men in Pau and Bynum, and a solid bench not enough for one of the greatest players of all time? How about the year before when they got swept by the Mavs? Was Bynum, Pau, Odom, Artest not enough? How do you not threepeat with that team? How do you allow Phil Jackson to go out in a sweep like that?


Five rings is a lot, but when you compare Kobe's situation to that of MJ's, it isn't really comparable. If you had given MJ the amount of opportunities to win championships that Kobe has been afforded, more than likely, he would have won more than five. We know that for sure because MJ won six with lesser teammates. So it could have been somewhere around eight or nine for MJ in Kobe's position.

[Michael Jordan.]

FortuneOne could argue, that there is not a single NBA player in history that has had as much support or talent around him as Kobe has. He came into the league on aloaded team (http://www.lakersweb.net/yearbyyear/lalakers_1996_1997.htm) with Shaquille O'Neal as the best player. Arguably the best coach of all time, Phil Jackson, has coached him for the majority of his career. To put that in perspective, Phil Jackson coached Kobe more years than he coached MJ.
After the Shaq era, it took no more than three years for the Lakers to reload and become a contender again with the acquisition of Pau Gasol. They recently just acquired the best center in the NBA, Dwight Howard. Putting Kobe in position to win his sixth championship ring
Kobe has been the most fortunate player in NBA history, yet he has just five rings to show for it. One could argue that this good fortune is the very reason why he has so many rings in the first place. More so than his play on the court.

[Michael Jordan.]

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7176510_f520.jpg

[Michael Jordan.]

Many don't identify the intricacies of Kobe's championship success. The great fortune he has had compared to other all time greats. The fact that he came to a loaded Los Angeles Lakers team and couldn't make an immediate impact like other all time greats.

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe just doesn't compare to Jordan when you think of his production in terms of time spent in the league, his playoff success, and his legacy. It's not just that Jordan completely blows Kobe away in scoring titles, MVPs, and Finals MVPs. It was his will to win. His memorable moments. His shot selection. How often he came through in big moments(especially in the Finals). How he did so much with less.
Pippen is one of the best players to ever put the ball in the hoop, but when you consider the Bulls' lack of interior presence, you can't help but applaud what MJ did in a Bulls uniform. He simply did more than Kobe, but without the great fortune that Kobe has had.
Frankly, Kobe just doesn't compare to Jordan from a historical standpoint. Regardless of how much he's elevated.

[Michael Jordan.]

Is Kobe all time great? Certainly. But is he as good as the media and his fans say he is? Absolutely not. His historical excellence is elevated to a ridiculous degree. There is no shame in saying Kobe is one of the greatest basketball players ever. But when you start putting him in the discussion with MJ, Magic, Russell, Kareem, or even Bird from a historical standpoint, you are going too far. Kobe is great, but his impact on the Lakers hasn't been anything like that of those players on their teams. The Lakers were winning before Kobe, with Kobe, and will win after Kobe.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Kirby and Lakerfan getting eviscerated in here

[Michael Jordan.]

In multiple seasons, from 1985-86 to 2012-13, in the regular season, played G, requiring Assists <= 0 and Field Goal Attempts >= 15, sorted by most games matching criteria.




1


Jeff Malone (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonje01.html)



G




1986




1994




41 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=malonje01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






2


Michael Redd (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddmi01.html)



G




2002




2012




38 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=reddmi01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






3


Allan Houston (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/houstal01.html)



G




1995




2004




33 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=houstal01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






4


Ray Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allenra02.html)



G




1997




2011




23 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=allenra02&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






5


Cuttino Mobley (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/moblecu01.html)



G




2000




2009




21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=moblecu01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






6


Mitch Richmond (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richmmi01.html)



G




1990




2001




20 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=richmmi01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






7


Jason Richardson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richaja01.html)



G




2003




2012




18 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=richaja01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






8


Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html)



G




1998




2013




16 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






9


Rolando Blackman (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/blackro01.html)



G




1986




1992




15 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=blackro01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)






10


Dell Curry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryde01.html)



G




1988




1999




15 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=curryde01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=&pos_is_f=&pos_is_fg=&pos_is_fc=&pos_is_c=&pos_is_cf=&c1stat=ast&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=fga&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&is_dbl_dbl=&is_trp_dbl=&order_by=date_game&order_by_asc=Y&)

[Michael Jordan.]

In game five vs Thunder Kobe set the record for most FGA without an assist (http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/kobe-sets-yet-another-record-1757591/)(33). Last year he got to #3 on that list with 29 FGA without an assist.

[Michael Jordan.]

BTW, Kobe had 52 games in the regular season where he recorded 0 assists for a tidy 26-26 record(link (http://bkref.com/tiny/4k0Lp)), which would rank him tied for 220 with Chucky Atkins, Randy Foye, Tate George and Randy Woods (gotta love that name) (http://bkref.com/tiny/OsHaC).

He also has 11 games in the playoffs where he recorded 0 assists, with 9 of them coming in during or before 98, and the remaining two over the last two playoffs, resulting in a 5-6 record. (link (http://bkref.com/tiny/7OBDF))

[Michael Jordan.]

However, he has something like 200 games with 2 or fewer assists. :lol

[AchillesHeel]

I love me some facts :toast

[rmt]

Most rings among active playersPERIOD

As far as I know, Fisher hasn't officially retired as yet. Until then, your statement is not true. It should be he is tied with Fisher for most rings among active players.

[Brazil]

As far as I know, Fisher hasn't officially retired as yet. Until then, your statement is not true. It should be he is tied with Fisher for most rings among active players.

now that's cruel :lol

[Leetonidas]

*crickets*

[Michael Jordan.]

Who's ready for more stats? I know it ain't lakerfan.

[Michael Jordan.]

Just looking at it subjectively, there’s no viable conclusion other than Bryant is overrated. Consider these jaw-dropping statistics:


When Bryant scores 20 or few points this season, the Lakers are 15-4. When he scores over 20 points, L.A. is 21-28.



When Bryant has at least eight assists, the Lakers are 13-5. When he passes less, his team is 23-27.



When Bryant shoots 16 or fewer times, the Lakers are 17-3. When he shoots more than that, L.A. is 19-29.



In wins, Bryant averages 24.2 points and 7.0 assists. In losses, Bryant averages 30.2 points and 4.4 assists.




Read more: http://www.everyjoe.com/2013/03/18/sports/confirmed-kobe-bryant-is-an-overrated-ballhog/#ixzz2dJ5nILva

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe in 2011: #1 in attempts, #2 in scoring
Kobe in 2010: #2 in attempts, #5 in scoring
Kobe in 2009: #3 in attempts, #4 in scoring
Kobe in 2008: #2 in attempts, #3 in scoring
Kobe in 2007: #2 in attempts, #2 in scoring
Kobe in 2006: #1 in attempts, #1 in scoring
Kobe in 2005: #1 in attempts, #1 in scoring
Kobe in 2004: #4 in attempts, #2 in scoring
Kobe in 2003: #9 in attempts, #4 in scoring
Kobe in 2002: #3 in attempts, #2 in scoring
Kobe in 2001: #6 in attempts, #6 in scoring
Kobe in 2000: #5 in attempts, #4 in scoring
Kobe in 1999: #12 in attempts, #12 in scoring

[Rogue]

MJ raining incendiary truth bombs all over the Lakers fan base :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Data supports claim that if Kobe stops ball hogging the Lakers will win more
The Lakers recently snapped a four game losing streak. In that game Kobe, the league leader in field goal attempts and missed shots, had a season low of 14 points but a season high of 14 assists. This makes sense to me since Kobe shooting less means more efficient players are shooting more. Kobe has a lower career true shooting % (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_active.html) than Gasol, Howard and Nash (ranked 17,3 and 2 respectively). Despite this he takes more than 1/4 of the shots. Commentators usually praise top scorers no matter what, but recently they have started looking at data (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8884925/los-angeles-lakers-coach-mike-dantoni-says-kobe-bryant-assists-looked-sacrificing)and noticed that the Lakers are 6-22 when Kobe has more than 19 field goal attempts and 12-3 in the rest of the games.

[Michael Jordan.]

http://simplystatistics.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kobelakers1-300x300.png

[Michael Jordan.]

http://simplystatistics.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kobelakers1-300x300.png
This graph shows score differential versus % of shots taken by Kobe* . Linear regression suggests that an increase of 1% in % of shots taken by Kobe results in a drop of 1.16 points (+/- 0.22) in score differential. It also suggests that when Kobe takes 15% of the shots, the Lakers win by an average of about 10 points, when he takes 30% (not a rare occurrence) they lose by an average of about 5. Of course we should not take this regression analysis to seriously but it's hard to ignore the fact that when Kobe takes less than 23 23.25% of the shots the Lakers are 13-1.

[Leetonidas]

RIP Lakerfan

[Michael Jordan.]

“I think it is because most great second options aren’t hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread like Kobe is. A lot of people love Kobe so much they want to talk about his three championships without even mentioning Shaq. That in turn leads others without the rose colored specs on to say ‘what? those were Shaq’s teams!’ That’s really all you’re looking at here.
It’s kind of like if someone were to turn around and say ‘Scottie Pippen is the best player ever because he won 6 rings’. Of course the rebuttal would be ‘Sorry but Scottie was second banana to Jordan, those were Jordan’s teams’. Then someone such as yourself may write an article about how even though Jordan was the man, Scottie was still a star. Like that clears up the issue.
Kobe was of course a great second option on those teams! The problem arises when people try to use those three rings as part of an argument to say Kobe is a better individual player than Lebron James or that he’s the greatest player not named Mike or other such over the top declarations of his unstoppableness”

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe Bryant Wasn’t As Big of a Factor As Perception Makes it Seem
Kobe Bryant, in reality, wasn’t as big as a factor with the Lakers during their championship runs as perception makes it seem.


If you took Shaq off the Lakers during their title runs, the Lakers wouldn’t be guaranteed to make the playoffs. When O’Neal was injured during his three peat, the Lakers had a regular-season record of 12-11 (.5217%).

When Kobe was injured, the Lakers regular season record was 25-7 (.78%). Interestingly, the Lakers’ entire regular-season record during their three-peats was 181-65 (.735%), which is a lower record than when Kobe wasn’t playing. The Lakers therefore actually had a better record when Kobe wasn’t playing.

[Michael Jordan.]

In year 2000, during the regular season, Bryant averaged almost 29 points and five assists per game. How did these stats translate over to the NBA Finals? They lowered to 15 points and four assists per game.

Shaquille O’Neal, on the other hand, raised his scoring average, from 28 in the regular season to 38 in the finals.

[Michael Jordan.]

In 2001, the Lakers once again won the NBA Finals. Kobe’s scoring average dropped in the clutch once again, forcing O’Neal to step up his scoring from 27 per game in the regular season to 33 in the finals.


In 2002, For the third straight year, Kobe’s scoring and assists declined in the series and O’Neal of course stepped it up in the finals.


Most greats like Shaq, Jordan and Duncan, all raised their level in the finals, but yet Kobe lowered his tremendously. Charles Barkley once said that stars are made in the regular season, but superstars are made in the playoffs.

Well, I would like to add on to that statement and say that stars are made in the regular season, superstars are made in the playoffs, but Legends are made in the NBA finals.

[Michael Jordan.]

In the 2004 NBA Finals, Shaq averaged 26.6 points per game with a .631 field goal percentage, while Kobe Bryant averaged 22.6 points per game with a .381 field goal percentage.

However, the main reason Kobe cost the Lakers the title was that he out shot Shaq by nearly six shots despite Kobe shooting 38.1 %, while Shaq was shooting 63.1 %.

In that series, Kobe’s failure to play though Shaq hurt not only the team’s stats, but his own stats as well. Playing through Shaq more, would have helped his FGP and opened up more easy scoring opportunities.

Not to mention, logically, why should a player shooting with a much lower FGP average six more shots than a former three times finals MVP that was shooting a much higher percentage?

During the 2004 NBA Finals, Kobe decided that he was going to be the man, even if it cost the team. Not surprisingly, according to Phil Jackson‘s book “The Last Season: A Team in Search of Its Soul,” in Bryant’s exit interview with him Bryant said, “I’m tired of being a sidekick.” Shaq already had three Finals MVP’s and Kobe for once wanted that finals MVP.
Watch the tape of that series and you will see a mad man determined to be the “man,” despite the consequences the team would ultimately render.

[Michael Jordan.]

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant


16 seasons
17 seasons


6 Championships
5 Championships


6 Finals MVPs
2 Finals MVPs


10 Scoring Titles
2 Scoring Titles


1 Defensive Player Of The Year
0 Defensive Player Of The Year


5 MVPs
1 MVP

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe has a career average of a .454 FGP, while, obviously depending on your list, no other player generally considered one of top 20 players of all time has shot that poorly.
Julius Erving shot .506 , Magic Johnson shot .520, Oscar Robertson shot 485, Larry Bird shot .496, and Michael Jordan shot .497 for their career. Kobe has also shot worse than the two players playing today that will eventually make this list, if not for a drastic injury, Wade and LeBron.

[Michael Jordan.]

Before game seven of the Rockets-Lakers series, ESPN showed that against the Rockets, only 21 percent of his shots were within five feet of the hoop. Now 21 percent just isn’t good enough, and that is one reason the undermanned Rockets took the Lakers to seven games.

[Michael Jordan.]

If you were watching the pregame show before game seven of the Rockets-Lakers game, you would recall that Jon Barry showed a statistic that when Kobe Bryant shoots less than 21 shots, the Lakers were 39-3.

Up to that point he had taken 150 shots total in the previous 6 games against the Rockets. Now, can you remember there being a stat like that for a player considered as great as Kobe?

Is there a stat like that for Jordan? LeBron? Wade? Well, of course the answer is no. Not to the surprise of me and Jon Barry, the Lakers beat the Rockets in game seven with Kobe only scoring 15 points.

[Michael Jordan.]

Kobe is consider one of the clutchest players in history but yet I can’t recall him having any meaningful amazing game winners. Now Kobe has had some winning go ahead baskets in the playoffs, but he has never had one of those “Jordanesque” moment that you can replay in your head over and over again.

If you have been watching a lot of NBA games this year, you would have noticed those amazing NBA moments commercials. Well the one Kobe Bryant moment that they keep showing over again is his game winning shot against the Suns a few years ago in the first round. Here’s my problem with it. The Lakers lost the series!
Is that really the best Kobe moment that they could find. Well, sadly it could be. On the other hand, I can point out to a few plays that LeBron James has made in the playoffs in his career, that would have been better amazing moments, and sadly he is much younger than Kobe.

In reality, during the Lakers’ championship run, it was Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Brian Shaw, and the roles players who had those amazing moments.

[Michael Jordan.]

n that game, I saw an interesting stat that tells it all. The thee players with the most three pointers in NBA Finals history are Michael Jordan, Kobe’s teammate Derek Fisher, and his ex-teammate Robert Horry.

[Michael Jordan.]

5.) 60+ Point game against opponents above .500/Playoff/Championship Contenders:
Michael Jordan (5) Kobe Bryant (1)

[Michael Jordan.]

http://arturogalletti.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/untitled55.png?w=594

[Michael Jordan.]

In 2004-05, Kobe logged 40.7 minutes per game for one of the 40 worst defensive teams in league history, with the Lakers' defense somehow getting 2.4 points worse when he was on the floor. That touched off an eight-year stretch over which Bryant still garnered seven All-Defense selections despite the Lakers being little more than an average defensive team -- and actually playing one point per 100 possessions worse defensively with Bryant in the game.


While not exactly on the same level as Derek Jeter's host of ill-gotten Gold Gloves, Bryant's annual All-Defense recognition seems more and more like a legacy pick with each passing year. Adjusted plus/minus suggests he's no more than an average defender at this stage of his career, and at age 34 his best defensive days are likely in the rearview mirror. Bryant ranks among the NBA's all-time great players, and is still one of its best offensive threats, but his defensive impact has been overstated for years.

[Michael Jordan.]

Negatives: Notable Stats:Career .45% shooter, career 4.2 assists per game, since Shaq’s departure Kobe’s averaged 22 shots per game


Kobe’s problem has been different in different years. In the Shaq era his problem was that he was not clutch at all. Every time the playoffs came around Kobe’s production would decrease forcing Shaq to score more, which did end up happening. Once Shaq left another problem arose. Kobe’s teamwork. From 2004 to 2007 the Lakers had no supporting cast, so the team was awful. Kobe seldom passed the ball, and took a ton of shots. No one had a problem with it in those days because Kobe had no good players to pass to. In the next few years the Lakers got Bynum (all-star) Pau Gasol (all-star) Ron Artest (all-star), along with Derek Fisher and Trevor Ariza. As well Lamar Odom started playing to his full potential. Even with all the star power on his team in the last 4 seasons Kobe has only averaged 4.4 assists per game. Kobe does not pass enough, and even when he does he’s not very good at getting open shots for teammates.

[Michael Jordan.]

Some people are going to go crazy at the statement that Kobe is overrated, so let’s just take a look at the stats. PER is Player Efficiency Rating, which is a rating of a players effectiveness per minute. How does Kobe stack up? Since the 06-07 season Kobe has never been in the top four in PER, and has only cracked the top ten twice. He has never had the best PER out of SG’s (is either beaten by Ginobli or Wade) and has only had a better PER than LeBron once. Now let’s look at Win Shares. This stat examines how Kobe effects the number of wins his team has. Since 06-07 Kobe has not been in the top 10 and has been outside the top twenty twice. The 15 guys that have had seasons with the highest Win Shares are listed below.




1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Shaquille O’Neal
5. Magic Johnson
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Charles Barkley
8. Tim Duncan
9. Larry Bird
10. Jerry West
11. Dirk Nowitzki
12. Bob Pettit
13. Artis Gilmore
14. Julius Erving
15. Bill Russell

[Michael Jordan.]

All NBA Defense

http://asubstituteforwar.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/def20apm0311.jpg?w=700&h=357

[Michael Jordan.]

Is the trend clear? There have been 3 players who’ve dominated the All-Defensive team for the past decade: Bryant, Garnett, and Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html). Over any extended period, Garnett dominates the list, Duncan is near the top of the list, and Bryant is pretty much at the bottom.

[Michael Jordan.]

No. The more damning thing is that every metric I’ve broken down here has Kobe’s defensive impact as utterly average. -0.8, -0.6, 0.1, 0.1, these are not numbers of someone who is consistently a game changer on defense. The other guys given even half the love Kobe’s gotten over the year, pretty consistently do turn up on these metric doing quite well.

[Michael Jordan.]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2001273/kbb1_5_medium.JPG

[Michael Jordan.]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2001353/kbb2_4_medium.JPG
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2001381/kbb2_5_medium.JPG

[Michael Jordan.]

yxCUutqpkNw

[The Franchise]

Now you're making ME feel bad.:lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Don't believe me? 82games.com (http://82games.com/) keeps track of a player's effect on team defense by measuring the team's defensive efficiency when the player is on and off the court. For example, take Dwight Howard, who is unsurprisingly the team's best defender. When Dwight is on the court, the Lakers give up 105.1 points per 100 possessions. When he is off the court, the Lakers give up 111.7, so Dwight's net defensive rating is -6.6.

Metta World Peace's net is a strong -5.4. Steve Nash makes the defense worse with a net of +1.4. Where does Kobe stand? +3.2. Yes, he's worse than Nash. His net is matched by Antawn Jamison. Only Earl Clark's surprising +3.9 (no doubt skewed by his on-again, off-again participation in the rotation) prevents Kobe from being, statistically, the worst defender on the team.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Kirby
:lol Lakerfan

[Michael Jordan.]

Not a surprise Lakerfan makes a thread asking if FG% is overrated :rollin

http://www.clublakers.com/nba-discussion/overrated-t124724.html (http://www.clublakers.com/nba-discussion/overrated-t124724.html)

[Michael Jordan.]

Hmm, still no signs of:
LkrFan (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18824) Koolaid_Man (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19058) Bynumite (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31924) whitemamba (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=26808) King Nupe (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42735) Killakobe81

[Arnold Toht]

^I'm here. I've been viewing all day.

[Jodelo]

MJ shitting on Lakersfans per par! :lol:toast

[Michael Jordan.]

^I'm here. I've been viewing all day.
Of course you've been VIEWING all day. That's all you can do. Hands tied, mouth taped, got you prisoner of war motherfucker! Christ.

[whitemamba]

Saltier than the Dead Sea :lmao

[Arnold Toht]

Of course you've been VIEWING all day. That's all you can do.

Well considering that you want a Kobe vs MJ debate, I'm here to tell you that we still have Kobe 5 > 4 over Duncan, and quite honestly I'm fine with just that.

[Michael Jordan.]

Well considering that you want a Kobe vs MJ debate, I'm here to tell you that we still have Kobe 5 > 4 over Duncan, and quite honestly I'm fine with just that.
Of course you're fine with that. Kobe's stats don't look so good vs Me.

[Michael Jordan.]

Saltier than the Dead Sea :lmao
Stats, son. The salt you're experiencing has to do with the jizz that is covering your eyes, nose, and lips.

[whitemamba]

Of course you're fine with that. Kobe's stats don't look so good vs me.

:lmao

[whitemamba]

Stats, son. The salt you're experiencing has to do with the jizz that is covering your eyes, nose, and lips.

wtf? salt and jizz? thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard :lmao

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg

[Michael Jordan.]

wtf? salt and jizz? thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard :lmao

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg
Jizz contains salt you dumb motherfucker.

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Semen

:lmao Jizzmamba
:lol explaining why he's so fuckin salty
:lol Doesn't even know what's in his favorite drink

[Michael Jordan.]

Where is Lakersarethebesteva?

[whitemamba]

Jizz contains salt you dumb motherfucker.

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Semen

:lmao Jizzmamba
:lol explaining why he's so fuckin salty
:lol Doesn't even know what's in his favorite drink

:lol jizzlover
:lol knows what it contains
:lol Jizz Milk with his Cereal
:lol baited like a bitch

http://i.imgflip.com/2v44z.jpg

[Michael Jordan.]

http://oi40.tinypic.com/y00li.jpg