Manu Ginobilli's Five Most Amazing Passes

[wildbill2u]

http://hoopshabit.com/san-antonio-spurs-manu-ginobilis-5-most-amazing-passes/

Interesting article about Manu and his passing ability. The article has video of the five passes the author thinks are Manu's best. It includes the between the opponents legs pass to Parker streaking down the lane in Game One against Miami that he rates as number 2. I think it is arguably number 1, especially considering the level of the competition in a Finals game.

I remember last year the NBA highlights had two Manu passes in the same week which I think should be some kind of record. It is always fun to watch the Argentine do his thing.

[Vash StampedE]

5 amazing passes? How about his god-knows-how-many turnovers he had in Game 6 and 7?





























































































In before TGY and his buddies. :lol

[Skull-1]

Two good passes for San Antonio. 34 good passes for Miami.

[DJR210]

If Bowen wouldn't have blown the double behind the back pass in Manu's rookie season during the comeback run vs the Mavericks, that would have been a top two tbh. I tried to find it on Youtube but no luck.

[wildbill2u]

Folks need to get over their disappointment and frustration over the Miami series. You can't forget all the entertainment Manu has given us over the years--and yes during the recent playoffs.

For the record, Basketball Reference shows that LeBron James, the greatest BB player in the world committed 70 TOs and 3.0 TO average per game during the playoffs. Manu had 55 TOs and an average of 2.6 TOs per game.

It doesn't mean that Manu is better at 35 than LeBron at 28--but he can still play with the big stars.

This is a team game and one player doesn't win or lose a game or a series by one play. Manu has been so good over the years that we have come to expect miracles from him at the end of games to pull them out.

He has been a super star and is surely headed to the Hall of Fame as a lifetime Spur. All superstars lose the battle to Father Time, but that doesn't mean we should turn on one of our own. He's earned better than that.

[Phenomanul]

Folks need to get over their disappointment and frustration over the Miami series. You can't forget all the entertainment Manu has given us over the years--and yes during the recent playoffs.

For the record, Basketball Reference shows that LeBron James, the greatest BB player in the world committed 70 TOs and 3.0 TO average per game during the playoffs. Manu had 55 TOs and an average of 2.6 TOs per game.

It doesn't mean that Manu is better at 35 than LeBron at 28--but he can still play with the big stars.

This is a team game and one player doesn't win or lose a game or a series by one play. Manu has been so good over the years that we have come to expect miracles from him at the end of games to pull them out.

He has been a super star and is surely headed to the Hall of Fame as a lifetime Spur. All superstars lose the battle to Father Time, but that doesn't mean we should turn on one of our own. He's earned better than that.

Reference indeed...

People also need to remember that if Tony hadn't been hurt, Manu would not have been tasked with handling the ball disproportionately more than what he had been handling it during the season... Ginobili happened to be in a funk for most of the year and this additional responsibility against such an agile Miami defense was only going to be a recipe for disaster. Even then, the Spurs ALMOST overcame Stern's wishes...

[Skull-1]

Reference indeed...

People also need to remember that if Tony hadn't been hurt, Manu would not have been tasked with handling the ball disproportionately more than what he had been handling it during the season... Ginobili happened to be in a funk for most of the year and this additional responsibility against such an agile Miami defense was only going to be a recipe for disaster. Even then, the Spurs ALMOST overcame Stern's wishes...


Thats a cop out.

Manu jacking up bad shots early, when we needed to burn the clock, and chucking it to the Heat or some guy in the stands, or so far off target the shooter has no chance to get a look have nothing to do with added responsibility. They have everything to do with Manu going braindead at the worst possible time.

[therealtruth]

For the record, Basketball Reference shows that LeBron James, the greatest BB player in the world committed 70 TOs and 3.0 TO average per game during the playoffs. Manu had 55 TOs and an average of 2.6 TOs per game.


Don't forget to account usage rate and minutes played.

[Skull-1]

Don't forget to account usage rate and minutes played.

And when they occurred. No turnovers in four blowouts isn't a big thing. Eight in a close game to seal a championship is.

[UZER]

Now they need Manus five most amazing passes (the opponents favorites)

I know I know...dead horse.

[SA210]

At the bottom of that link lol


Micah Galindo
I have just celebrated my 25th anniversary of being a die-hard San Antonio Spurs fan. I have been a fan of basketball in general (watching, following, playing) for just as long. Born and raised in San Antonio but now I live in the burgeoning metropolis of Abilene, Texas. I write on the Spurs and Houston Rockets. If you say anything bad about Manu Ginobili I will come find you.




:lmao:rollin

[TE]

^ dallasmaverickslose imo

[Skull-1]

^ dallasmaverickslose imo

LOL And to the post above yours....well....well........I just want to say to Micah Galindo: Manu Ginobili sucks and needs to retire. He refuses to change his game. He has lost his fire and his edge. He tarnished his legacy in the Finals and cost us a championship.


So come find me. Wimp.

[CitizenDwayne]

For the record, Basketball Reference shows that LeBron James, the greatest BB player in the world committed 70 TOs and 3.0 TO average per game during the playoffs. Manu had 55 TOs and an average of 2.6 TOs per game.

Nice find.

[cd021]

Two good passes for San Antonio. 34 good passes for Miami.

You do realize he averaged only 3 turnovers per game in the NBA Finals. So you're overstating it a bit. :lol

[cd021]

5 amazing passes? How about his god-knows-how-many turnovers he had in Game 6 and 7?



Interesting...I must have been the only person who saw that it includes his full 11 year career. not a 2 game span.

[Skull-1]

Eight in game six. Four in the last bit of game seven.


Bad passes everywhere.

He was monumental in his awfulness. Stats don't capture it all but my eyes sure did.

[Proxy]

He tarnished his legacy in the Finals and cost us a championship.


Doesn't get any more pathetic than this, tbh

[Leetonidas]

Folks need to get over their disappointment and frustration over the Miami series. You can't forget all the entertainment Manu has given us over the years--and yes during the recent playoffs.

For the record, Basketball Reference shows that LeBron James, the greatest BB player in the world committed 70 TOs and 3.0 TO average per game during the playoffs. Manu had 55 TOs and an average of 2.6 TOs per game.

It doesn't mean that Manu is better at 35 than LeBron at 28--but he can still play with the big stars.

This is a team game and one player doesn't win or lose a game or a series by one play. Manu has been so good over the years that we have come to expect miracles from him at the end of games to pull them out.

He has been a super star and is surely headed to the Hall of Fame as a lifetime Spur. All superstars lose the battle to Father Time, but that doesn't mean we should turn on one of our own. He's earned better than that.

You're comparing someone who handles the ball almost exclusively for Miami who also happens to have the entire defense tripling him the whole game and still made up for it with triple doubles, defense, and his scoring output to a 36 year old who didn't have the defense keyed on him fumbling the ball away constantly for seemingly no reason (not to mention he committed a lot of crucial turnovers late in games) to go along with the disappearance of his shot and nonchalant attitude towards losing the Finals...seriously, don't compare the current GOAT of the league to Manu, it doesn't make sense to do so.

[diego]

You're comparing someone who handles the ball almost exclusively for Miami who also happens to have the entire defense tripling him the whole game and still made up for it with triple doubles, defense, and his scoring output to a 36 year old who didn't have the defense keyed on him fumbling the ball away constantly for seemingly no reason (not to mention he committed a lot of crucial turnovers late in games) to go along with the disappearance of his shot and nonchalant attitude towards losing the Finals...seriously, don't compare the current GOAT of the league to Manu, it doesn't make sense to do so.

comparing a 28 yr old with one of the biggest and most athletic bodies to ever set foot on an NBA court to a 36 year old battling injuries and expecting similar production is clearly stupid.

but lets get into your argument a little bit.

first, usage rates and TO rates for the top ball handlers + duncan/leonard and bosh/miller to include the most important actors on both teams during the finals:

parker:

25.4 usage
11.4 TO
33.5 ast%

manu:
22.4 usage
23.3 TO
24.6 ast%

Neal:
18.6 usage
11.8 TO
6.0 ast%

green:
15.8 usage
9.6 TO
3.7 ast%

Duncan
25.2 usage
11.8 TO
7.4 ast%

Leonard
17.5 usage
7.4 TO
3.7ast%


---

Lebron
29.7 usage
9.7 TO
30.1 ast%

wade
28.5 usage
10.5 TO
23.3ast%

chalmers
19.7 usage
19.8 TO
9.9 ast%

allen
15.2 usage
14.8 TO
8.6 ast%

Bosh
18.5
7.6
10.3 ast%

Miller
7.7
8.3
5.4 ast%

Those stats show that manu as we all know had a terrible series in terms of TO. They also show that BOTH Lebron and wade handled the ball more than EITHER manu or tony, that tony did a great job handling the ball and setting plays up w/o turning the ball over but that after him manu was the only spur making a significant contribution in that area at the cost of high turnovers. But for comparisons sake, chalmers the heats PG and the guy like manu with the 3rd highest usage rate on his team, had nowhere near the ast% but like manu a higher TO% than usage rate.

THe bottom line is that just like last year, when the game got tough the heat got more out of lebron and wade + cast than the spurs did out of tim tony and manu + cast. A lot of that is because manu didnt perform better. But its mostly because their stars are younger and were able to play more and play better.

As for triple teams and such, I think you'd be hardpressed to name more than 5 times that lebron got trapped in the entire finals series. Manu got trapped 5+ times a game. The heat most certainly did key in on manu during the finals, betting that he wasnt going to be able to flip the switch and make them pay for it by splitting. The spurs on the otherhand dared lebron to shoot all series and until game 7 it nearly worked.

[SenorSpur]

This aint the time.

[look_at_g_shred]

The no look behind the back to Blair still gives me chills when I think about it. I believe it was 09-10??

[cd021]

The no look behind the back to Blair still gives me chills when I think about it. I believe it was 09-10??

It was 09-10. The pass riffled through three 3 Lakers to Bonner is a personal favorite.

[cd021]

Eight in game six. Four in the last bit of game seven.


Bad passes everywhere.

He was monumental in his awfulness. Stats don't capture it all but my eyes sure did.

It stats don't prove your point then why use them? My stats show that even in game 7 he had a positive impact he contributed 1/3 of our offense (scoring and assists)He also stole an in bounds pass and tossed it to Green who clanked a 3 that would have given us the lead with about 2 minutes remaining.

-Duncan missed a layup that would have tied the game in the final minute.
-Leonard missed a 3 that would have given us a 1 point lead with 1:15 left

We had chances to throw it all on Manu is absolute B.S. and i'm not even a big of Manu fan.

[therealtruth]

You're comparing someone who handles the ball almost exclusively for Miami who also happens to have the entire defense tripling him the whole game and still made up for it with triple doubles, defense, and his scoring output to a 36 year old who didn't have the defense keyed on him fumbling the ball away constantly for seemingly no reason (not to mention he committed a lot of crucial turnovers late in games) to go along with the disappearance of his shot and nonchalant attitude towards losing the Finals...seriously, don't compare the current GOAT of the league to Manu, it doesn't make sense to do so.

This. Pretty much what I loved about Manu's game is that when he wasn't having a good game he would still find some other way to have a positive impact on the game. However in the Finals Manu did more bad than good and would simply be unplayable at times by most coaches. The problem really is the Spurs didn't have a 3rd ball handler and Manu was forced into extra duty. In the past we had a guy like Barry who could handle the ball and make plays. Finding that extra ball handler/playmaker is important.

[UZER]

This. Pretty much what I loved about Manu's game is that when he wasn't having a good game he would still find some other way to have a positive impact on the game. However in the Finals Manu did more bad than good and would simply be unplayable at times by most coaches. The problem really is the Spurs didn't have a 3rd ball handler and Manu was forced into extra duty. In the past we had a guy like Barry who could handle the ball and make plays. Finding that extra ball handler/playmaker is important.

Damn, how long ago did Barry leave? This team still doesn't have a back up point guard? But that's Pops MO....never settle on a back up point all season because they miss one defensive rotation and he sits them for 8 games.

[Skull-1]

Four turnovers in the fourth. Yeah, hell of a positive impact.






It stats don't prove your point then why use them? My stats show that even in game 7 he had a positive impact he contributed 1/3 of our offense (scoring and assists)He also stole an in bounds pass and tossed it to Green who clanked a 3 that would have given us the lead with about 2 minutes remaining.

-Duncan missed a layup that would have tied the game in the final minute.
-Leonard missed a 3 that would have given us a 1 point lead with 1:15 left

We had chances to throw it all on Manu is absolute B.S. and i'm not even a big of Manu fan.

[ElNono]

One of the greatest passers in Spurs history, tbh...

[Skull-1]

What is pathetic is your bogus criticism of my comment. Yes, he cost US, which means me and every other fan that spent money to support this franchise. Without US THERE IS NO TEAM. We pay the freight with our tickets, jerseys, and League Pass subscriptions, etc. you clown.



Doesn't get any more pathetic than this, tbh

[Man In Black]

FU Haters. Manu is still a fucking Spurs Demi-God :hat
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ktlincoln/which-manu-ginobili-wizard-pass-is-more-world-shattering

But that article missed these 2 passes:
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/6/7/16/anigif_enhanced-buzz-7574-1370637603-9.gif

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/6/7/16/anigif_enhanced-buzz-25722-1370637675-10.gif

[ca®lo]

He just needed to make a damn simple bounce or chest pass in game 6 tbh

[Sean Cagney]

Two good passes for San Antonio. 34 good passes for Miami.

Sad but very true.
He just needed to make a damn simple bounce or chest pass in game 6 tbh

I don't get it, I still do not get it man. How the hell can you just stumble and fall and hand the ball to the other team or just throw the ball over your head to the other team? What happened to just simple damn passes at times? I still think if you saw this from the outside you would say he threw the finals on purpose and was paid off if you were not a fan of the team or just a casual fan.

[MI21]

Finals performance aside, Manu isn't one of the best fancy passers in Spurs history, he is one of the best fancy passers in NBA history tbh.

[spurs10]

Finals performance aside, Manu isn't one of the best fancy passers in Spurs history, he is one of the best fancy passers in NBA history tbh. "He's Manu Ginobili..."

[Sean Cagney]

Finals performance aside, Manu isn't one of the best fancy passers in Spurs history, he is one of the best fancy passers in NBA history tbh.

Yes he is, no doubt he is. He is a magician at times.

[xmas1997]

There can be no doubt about Manus accomplishments, contrary to what some moronic posters say such as tgy and kobyz. You live with the bad parts simply because he will do more good.

[Skull-1]

There can be no doubt about Manus accomplishments, contrary to what some moronic posters say such as tgy and kobyz. You live with the bad parts simply because he will do more good.

Not any more. Finals Game Six- Nine points vs Eight Turnovers. Clearly more harm than good. That's gotta be more than a nine-point swing against San Antonio when all we needed was ONE POINT IN OUR FAVOR TO WIN.

[Proxy]

What is pathetic is your bogus criticism of my comment. Yes, he cost US, which means me and every other fan that spent money to support this franchise. Without US THERE IS NO TEAM. We pay the freight with our tickets, jerseys, and League Pass subscriptions, etc. you clown.

Do people actually believe this stupid shit? You pay for entertainment and the Spurs have more than provided us with it. That's the payoff. He's the one that's worked his ass off to be where he is and he deserves all of it. The fact that you feel entitled to any of the benefits of their hard work or feel like you're a real part of someone's personal legacy is fucking pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[wildbill2u]

Not any more. Finals Game Six- Nine points vs Eight Turnovers. Clearly more harm than good. That's gotta be more than a nine-point swing against San Antonio when all we needed was ONE POINT IN OUR FAVOR TO WIN.

Maybe without his last second 3pt in one game and his 25pts in another we don't get to game 6 or 7 against Miami.

[Skull-1]

Do people actually believe this stupid shit? You pay for entertainment and the Spurs have more than provided us with it. That's the payoff. He's the one that's worked his ass off to be where he is and he deserves all of it. The fact that you feel entitled to any of the benefits of their hard work or feel like you're a real part of someone's personal legacy is fucking pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Then he can work his ass off for free in the intramural league at the corporate gym and get a real job!

We, the fans, are the CONSUMER, and we are buying a PRODUCT. And when that PRODUCT does more for the opposition than for us then it is defective or worn out and should be REPAIRED OR REPLACED.

[Skull-1]

Maybe without his last second 3pt in one game and his 25pts in another we don't get to game 6 or 7 against Miami.


Without his prior screwups the last second three would not have been needed, and if he had remembered how to dribble maybe we don't lose game two by 100 damned points. The guy has one good game and somehow that makes up for five awful ones? Rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiight.

[ElNono]

Then he can work his ass off for free in the intramural league at the corporate gym and get a real job!

We, the fans, are the CONSUMER, and we are buying a PRODUCT. And when that PRODUCT does more for the opposition than for us then it is defective or worn out and should be REPAIRED OR REPLACED.

Except for the part where the product doesn't come with any guarantee or makes any claims with regards to it's performance.

But if you feel strongly enough about it, I suppose you could ask for a refund or sue. Good luck with that.

[xmas1997]

Then he can work his ass off for free in the intramural league at the corporate gym and get a real job!

We, the fans, are the CONSUMER, and we are buying a PRODUCT. And when that PRODUCT does more for the opposition than for us then it is defective or worn out and should be REPAIRED OR REPLACED.


Without his prior screwups the last second three would not have been needed, and if he had remembered how to dribble maybe we don't lose game two by 100 damned points. The guy has one good game and somehow that makes up for five awful ones? Rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiight.


Except for the part where the product doesn't come with any guarantee or makes any claims with regards to it's performance.

But if you feel strongly enough about it, I suppose you could ask for a refund or sue. Good luck with that.

:lmao. That is funny, ElNono, I agree with you.
Or skull, you could just quit being the crybaby bandwagon Spur fan that you are, grow up, and go back to your other loser teams!

[Skull-1]

:lmao. That is funny, ElNono, I agree with you.
Or skull, you could just quit being the crybaby bandwagon Spur fan that you are, grow up, and go back to your other loser teams!


Yeah. Love it or leave it. That worked great in Vietnam. Eye roll.

[Man In Black]

Yeah. Love it or leave it. That worked great in Vietnam. Eye roll.
Curious...Why ain't you pissed that Kawhi missed the championship win sealing FT in Game 6?

[phxspurfan]

I'm still pissed about game 6 too. I'll never forget how close we were to #5. But IMO we should have won if Pop hadn't taken DUncan out at the end of the game. And Diaw, according to some on here, seems pretty pissed that it was he who should have grabbed the finals-clinching rebound but didn't, and let Bosh and Allen cement LeBron's legacy.

Manu was annoyingly bad most of the series, but we definitely had this finals clinched and epicly choked it away, and not because Manu had a turnover or missed a free throw. It was because Pop took Duncan out.

[xmas1997]

It has been reported that TD was taken out because he was totally out of gas at that point.

[Spurs7794]

It has been reported that TD was taken out because he was totally out of gas at that point.

He had enough gas to play 28 seconds of defense, coupled with the Heat fouling them. Thats a bs reason.

[xmas1997]

He had enough gas to play 28 seconds of defense, coupled with the Heat fouling them. Thats a bs reason.


Just saying .....

[Skull-1]

Curious...Why ain't you pissed that Kawhi missed the championship win sealing FT in Game 6?

Because he kept us in the series. It wasn't Leonard who killed us, it was Manu and his own missed FT AND EIGHT TURNOVERS.

Leonard played nearly flawless. Manu was not even close to Leonard's level this playoffs.

[hater]

He just needed to make a damn simple bounce or chest pass in game 6 tbh

:lmao

[hater]

Not any more. Finals Game Six- Nine points vs Eight Turnovers. Clearly more harm than good. That's gotta be more than a nine-point swing against San Antonio when all we needed was ONE POINT IN OUR FAVOR TO WIN.

boom

truth sarin attack

[hater]

Maybe without his last second 3pt in one game and his 25pts in another we don't get to game 6 or 7 against Miami.

true. without Manu jerking off Wade in game 2 and 4, we probably sweep Miami

[xmas1997]

Whatever, bandwagon BS Spur fans.

[wildbill2u]

This post about Manu's passing is about one man's opinion of Manu's best passes in his CAREER, not the playoffs. I thought it would provoke comments about the choices he made, not a reprise of the playoffs. The playoffs are OVER. Let it go.

I never expected some folks would still be moaning and pissing about a lost opportunity at the end of the 7th game of the NBA Championship. We went as far as a team could go and not win the damn thing while a lot of star players were sitting at home watching the two best teams in the NBA slug it out. The difference between them was so small it could have gone either way.

It was definitely a super series and one that will go down in history.

[xmas1997]

This post about Manu's passing is about one man's opinion of Manu's best passes in his CAREER, not the playoffs. I thought it would provoke comments about the choices he made, not a reprise of the playoffs. The playoffs are OVER. Let it go.

I never expected some folks would still be moaning and pissing about a lost opportunity at the end of the 7th game of the NBA Championship. We went as far as a team could go and not win the damn thing while a lot of star players were sitting at home watching the two best teams in the NBA slug it out. The difference between them was so small it could have gone either way.

It was definitely a super series and one that will go down in history.

I totally agree with you and am ashamed of all the bitching and whining from bandwagon Spur fans when they should be proud of this team for getting as far as they did and almost winning it all!

[Skull-1]

I totally agree with you and am ashamed of all the bitching and whining from bandwagon Spur fans when they should be proud of this team for getting as far as they did and almost winning it all!


Only to have Manu throw it away. LITERALLY.

[xmas1997]

Only to have Manu throw it away. LITERALLY.

Case closed, you sunk yourself.

[Skull-1]

Case closed, you sunk yourself.


Not hardly.

[xmas1997]

Not hardly.


What, is the rope not new enough for you to hang yourself with?

[Skull-1]

What, is the rope not new enough for you to hang yourself with?

Are you a parrot? Wanna cracker?

[xmas1997]

Are you a parrot? Wanna cracker?

Rope is getting tighter, huh.:lmao

[Man In Black]

Because he kept us in the series. It wasn't Leonard who killed us, it was Manu and his own missed FT AND EIGHT TURNOVERS.

Leonard played nearly flawless. Manu was not even close to Leonard's level this playoffs.
Selective reasoning. 1 Free Throw and it matters not what happens from that point on. 1. Missing it has the same cause and effect. If it's made, that's 5 rings. So, in essence, the entire team contributed to their own demise. Failure to get a rebound, Failure to get a stop, Failure to make a critical pass, Failure to get a ref call on a drive, Failure to make a critical FT. Why you can't see that means you don't understand the logic even though it's staring us all in the face.

[xmas1997]

Selective reasoning. 1 Free Throw and it matters not what happens from that point on. 1. Missing it has the same cause and effect. If it's made, that 5 rings. So, in essence, the entire team contributed to their own demise. Failure to get a rebound, Failure to get a stop, Failure to make a critical pass, Failure to get a ref call on a drive, Failure to make a critical FT. Why you can't see that means you can understand the logic even though it's staring us all in the face.

Geez, that is what I've been saying all along too. Why is it there are so many dense ignorant people on here who can't see this? It makes no sense, it was the whole team at fault.
Glad most of us understand this.

[cd021]

Because he kept us in the series. It wasn't Leonard who killed us, it was Manu and his own missed FT AND EIGHT TURNOVERS.

Leonard played nearly flawless. Manu was not even close to Leonard's level this playoffs.

A flawless series but missed a freethrow that would have sealed a title?

What a B.S. double-standard

[xmas1997]

A flawless series but missed a freethrow that would have sealed a title?

What a B.S. double-standard

Not just a double standard, but total narrow mindedness!
Only a bandwagon fan would say this stuff. Or a troll.

[ElNono]

Selective reasoning. 1 Free Throw and it matters not what happens from that point on. 1. Missing it has the same cause and effect. If it's made, that's 5 rings. So, in essence, the entire team contributed to their own demise. Failure to get a rebound, Failure to get a stop, Failure to make a critical pass, Failure to get a ref call on a drive, Failure to make a critical FT. Why you can't see that means you don't understand the logic even though it's staring us all in the face.

It's just much simpler to reduce everything to a single scapegoat. It makes focusing the whine about losing your championship bragging rights much easier.

Ultimately, it's a coping mechanism. A means to an end. It doesn't have to be logical. It just has to be the outlet that helps soothe the pain.

IMO, anyways.

[xmas1997]

It's just much simpler to reduce everything to a single scapegoat. It makes focusing the whine about losing your championship bragging rights much easier.

Ultimately, it's a coping mechanism. A means to an end. It doesn't have to be logical. It just has to be the outlet that helps soothe the pain.

IMO, anyways.
I believe you've hit the nail squarely on the head!

[Skull-1]

A flawless series but missed a freethrow that would have sealed a title?

What a B.S. double-standard


He hit a higher FT percentage than the overpaid argentine didn't he? (I honestly don't remember.)

And if Manu wasn't throwing up early shots, making wild passes, and giving the ball away it wouldn't have mattered, in addition to missing a free throw to clinch it.

EIGHT...eight turnovers. Only nine points. We lost by one. Do the math.

[Skull-1]

It's just much simpler to reduce everything to a single scapegoat. It makes focusing the whine about losing your championship bragging rights much easier.

Ultimately, it's a coping mechanism. A means to an end. It doesn't have to be logical. It just has to be the outlet that helps soothe the pain.

IMO, anyways.

Manu should have been benched. Didn't you see the game? Good grief.

[xmas1997]

It's just much simpler to reduce everything to a single scapegoat. It makes focusing the whine about losing your championship bragging rights much easier.

Ultimately, it's a coping mechanism. A means to an end. It doesn't have to be logical. It just has to be the outlet that helps soothe the pain.

IMO, anyways.

The guy has been shown and proven to be wrong on so many threads now it isn't even funny, yet he continues on oblivious to the truth. That rope must be choking him by now.
Or he is a troll disguised as a Spur fan, I haven't figured out which yet.

[ElNono]

The guy has been shown and proven to be wrong on so many threads now it isn't even funny, yet he continues on oblivious to the truth. That rope must be choking him by now.
Or he is a troll disguised as a Spur fan, I haven't figured out which yet.

You're not expecting to change anybody's mind, are you? :lol

[xmas1997]

You're not expecting to change anybody's mind, are you? :lol

I guess not, El Nono, but it was worth a try.
Thank God I have a sense of humor.
:lol

[cd021]

Manu should have been benched. Didn't you see the game? Good grief.

In favor of who?


Neal
De Colo
Mills
McGrady

or should we just have played four players and won a title that way

I've even predicted your response...

Your likely response: "With the way Manu was playing, it would have been a upgrade.":lmao

We have to have a 3rd player maker plain and simple none of those aforementioned would have helped us late in anyway.

[cd021]

He hit a higher FT percentage than the overpaid argentine didn't he? (I honestly don't remember.)

And if Manu wasn't throwing up early shots, making wild passes, and giving the ball away it wouldn't have mattered, in addition to missing a free throw to clinch it.

EIGHT...eight turnovers. Only nine points. We lost by one. Do the math.

Lost by 3. Maybe I should do the math for both of us.:lol

We were up 6 with 28 seconds left. Manu's 7 T.Os up to that point clearly didn't affect the game much up till that point. We actually still wound up taking more shots despite both teams being even on the offense glass. We also made 5 more Free throws.

8 possessions ( a max of 16-24 points can be scored in those possessions) , 9 points is what they scored. :lol Even you can admit that's pretty awful.

and it took Miami 52 minutes of basketball to score 103 points. That should tell you that Miami's offense was pretty poor.

You're acting as if Manu was throwing the equilvant of pick-6's all night. Thats simply untrue. His turnovers didn't cost us very much because our defense was strong and their offense struggled for most of the game.

Manu earned a 3 year deal after carrying us to the playoffs with Parker injured, Duncan on the decline and RJ under performing. He got hot and helped us sneek in as a 7th seed and beat Dallas (a 2 seed). He was rewarded with a 3 year $40 million extension. Contracts raises (10% each season under the old CBA, i believe) meant that the final year of his deal had to be $14,000,000. The Spurs knew he would be 35 and on the decline but his value to the organization on and off the court was worth it.

Based on his production, $7.5 his much closer to his actual value. Which what he will be payed this season.

You can't compare Manu's deal to a rookie scale deal. There is a limit to how much the Spurs are allowed to pay Leonard. In four seasons he will make less than $8 million. Its based on where he was taken in the draft. He wouldn't be eligible to make that type of money until his 6 or 7 season anyway based on years of experience and limits to salary for a player within those years of experience.

[Skull-1]

We lost the game (6) over a single point. Score one and no overtime.

Game over. Spurs win.

Throw in overtime and it is by three, but a single point would have made that academic.

[Skull-1]

Our defense got worn down making up for his garbage play. It is a good thing his teammates kept the ball away from him as much as they did or we might have lost by twenty. Turnovers hurt. Even when the other team is stopped they cost you points and points are what you need to win. Pretty simple.

[Skull-1]

The guy has been shown and proven to be wrong on so many threads now it isn't even funny, yet he continues on oblivious to the truth. That rope must be choking him by now.
Or he is a troll disguised as a Spur fan, I haven't figured out which yet.Not by you, sparky, that's for Damned sure.

[Skull-1]

Eight possessions, nine points for Miami. We lose over a single point in regulation forcing overtime to lose by three. Eight. A potential 24 points for our team when we just needed one.

[cd021]

Not by you, sparky, that's for Damned sure.

Just by
-Me (cd021)
-"Xmas 1997"
-"Man In Black"

you're 0-3

[xmas1997]

Not by you, sparky, that's for Damned sure.

Oh, now you're in denial too?
So sorry to hear that.
Remember pride comes before a great fall.

You may as well give up on this idiot troll, cd021, he is not only ignorant but also completely delusional.

[cd021]

We lost the game (6) over a single point. Score one and no overtime.

Game over. Spurs win.

Throw in overtime and it is by three, but a single point would have made that academic.

No need to play that what if game.

We had 5 minutes of overtime and an even score to start OT. Not sure why you bring that 1 point up. When Leonard was the who could have came up with that point.

[xmas1997]

No need to play that what if game.

We had 5 minutes of overtime and an even score to start OT. Not sure why you bring that 1 point up. When Leonard was the who could have came up with that point.


I made this same point to him and others recently and all I got were accusations of being a Kawhi hater and a Manutard.
These people are in total denial and refuse to see reason even when the truth knocks them on the head!
In fact we have all picked every whole in their arguments, bible and sports and gastronomy, yet they persist in their idiocy. Either they are trolling or are total morons in denial!

[cd021]

Oh, now you're in denial too?
So sorry to hear that.
Remember pride comes before a great fall.

You may as well give up on this idiot troll, cd021, he is not only ignorant but also completely delusional.

You're right. Its like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a wall. Then again he probably the type who thinks when people he argues stop arguing & starts to ignore him, that he's won.

It was worth a try.

[xmas1997]

You're right. Its like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a wall. Then again he probably the type who thinks when people he argues stop arguing & starts to ignore him, that he's won.

It was worth a try.

True. But I doubt he sees it this way. Isn't that calling trolling when they refuse to see reason and fall back on slanderous juvenile remarks?

[cd021]

I made this same point to him and others recently and all I got were accusations of being a Kawhi hater and a Manutard.
These people are in total denial and refuse to see reason even when the truth knocks them on the head!
In fact we have all picked every whole in their arguments, bible and sports and gastronomy, yet they persist in their idiocy. Either they are trolling or are total morons in denial!

Common sense just ain't that common.

Still, nice to see someone else check the clowns and trolls :toast

[xmas1997]

Common sense just ain't that common.

Still, nice to see someone else check the clowns and trolls :toast

Yeah, glad I'm not the only one picking holes in their insane arguments. This is something that chump usually does.
I wonder where he is now, probably having a good laugh at these nincompoop trolls and our efforts to educate them to the truth and Light.
I usually don't pull my punches when it comes to narrow minded ignoramuses like this.

[diego]

L
Manu earned a 3 year deal after carrying us to the playoffs with Parker injured, Duncan on the decline and RJ under performing. He got hot and helped us sneek in as a 7th seed and beat Dallas (a 2 seed). He was rewarded with a 3 year $40 million extension. Contracts raises (10% each season under the old CBA, i believe) meant that the final year of his deal had to be $14,000,000. The Spurs knew he would be 35 and on the decline but his value to the organization on and off the court was worth it.

at least 90% of the vitriolic hate on manu comes from posters that joined in 2012/2013. They talk about manu being washed up for 5 years, not worth his contract, bla bla bla. I'm pretty sure its simply a matter that they didnt follow the team before, or joined the forum/made the account to troll.

that said, despite 2-3 solid and even above average games in comparison to the rest of his 12-13 season, manu played a terrible finals and deserves heaps of criticism. However, considering his role on the team throughout the season, its pretty unfair to pin the loss on him. IMO Splitter deserves the biggest criticism, and aside from some grumbling during the series he didnt/doesnt get much. He was an important part of our team all year and in the finals he couldnt even stay on the court he was so bad. He had a favorable match up and wasnt able to capitalize. All year manu's staple offense was to feed splitter but the heat trapped manu and forced a lot of TO. And when manu DID manage to get it to splitter, it was almost always a block, miss or TO. If anyone totally failed to meet expectations its splitter, but since he doesnt have a fanbase you cant antagonize anyone by blaming him...

[xmas1997]

at least 90% of the vitriolic hate on manu comes from posters that joined in 2012/2013. They talk about manu being washed up for 5 years, not worth his contract, bla bla bla. I'm pretty sure its simply a matter that they didnt follow the team before, or joined the forum/made the account to troll.

that said, despite 2-3 solid and even above average games in comparison to the rest of his 12-13 season, manu played a terrible finals and deserves heaps of criticism. However, considering his role on the team throughout the season, its pretty unfair to pin the loss on him. IMO Splitter deserves the biggest criticism, and aside from some grumbling during the series he didnt/doesnt get much. He was an important part of our team all year and in the finals he couldnt even stay on the court he was so bad. He had a favorable match up and wasnt able to capitalize. All year manu's staple offense was to feed splitter but the heat trapped manu and forced a lot of TO. And when manu DID manage to get it to splitter, it was almost always a block, miss or TO. If anyone totally failed to meet expectations its splitter, but since he doesnt have a fanbase you cant antagonize anyone by blaming him...

I see your point of view and applaud your rationale.
I still maintain that at one time or another practically all of the Spurs made mistakes and contributed to the loss regardless of who did more or who did less.
It was a team effort and a team loss.
I am still very proud of them for making it that far because by all accounts they were not even supposed to be there. No one predicted them to make it all the way to the finals, and much less win it. The Heat were the consensus favorites all the way.
I do agree with you now, that they are here to troll and not contribute anything of a positive nature.
And if they are Spur fans, which I seriously doubt, then they are bandwagon ignorant ones, and this becomes more reasonable to assume when taken with their forum joining date.
My guess is that they are no better than a bunch of snot nosed punks out for a joy ride at our expense!
:hat

[Skull-1]

No need to play that what if game.

We had 5 minutes of overtime and an even score to start OT. Not sure why you bring that 1 point up. When Leonard was the who could have came up with that point.


Leonard came up with a ton of points and rebounds, and held their best player in check quite well. Manu had eight turnovers and missed a FT to clinch it which would have made the Leonard miss understandable.

Without Leonard we lose by 15-20 easily.

[xmas1997]

Leonard came up with a ton of points and rebounds, and held their best player in check quite well. Manu had eight turnovers and missed a FT to clinch it which would have made the Leonard miss understandable.

Without Leonard we lose by 15-20 easily.


:troll

[Man In Black]

We lost the game (6) over a single point. Score one and no overtime.

Game over. Spurs win.

Throw in overtime and it is by three, but a single point would have made that academic.
That last point could have been Kawhi but he missed it. Cause and effect... no title for the team and fans. Kawhi can admit it...why can't you?

[Skull-1]

at least 90% of the vitriolic hate on manu comes from posters that joined in 2012/2013. They talk about manu being washed up for 5 years, not worth his contract, bla bla bla. I'm pretty sure its simply a matter that they didnt follow the team before, or joined the forum/made the account to troll.

that said, despite 2-3 solid and even above average games in comparison to the rest of his 12-13 season, manu played a terrible finals and deserves heaps of criticism. However, considering his role on the team throughout the season, its pretty unfair to pin the loss on him. IMO Splitter deserves the biggest criticism, and aside from some grumbling during the series he didnt/doesnt get much. He was an important part of our team all year and in the finals he couldnt even stay on the court he was so bad. He had a favorable match up and wasnt able to capitalize. All year manu's staple offense was to feed splitter but the heat trapped manu and forced a lot of TO. And when manu DID manage to get it to splitter, it was almost always a block, miss or TO. If anyone totally failed to meet expectations its splitter, but since he doesnt have a fanbase you cant antagonize anyone by blaming him...


Splitter definitely wilted. No question, but Manu just made wild passes that even had Pop scratching his head.

Get a stop on the Heat and Manu jacks up a heat check three with only four seconds off the shot clock. Clang! Back to Miami for three. Yes!

So instead of Spurs swing plus four Miami goes up by three more. Ridiculous when trying to play a younger, more athletic team.

[xmas1997]

Splitter definitely wilted. No question, but Manu just made wild passes that even had Pop scratching his head.

Get a stop on the Heat and Manu jacks up a heat check three with only four seconds off the shot clock. Clang! Back to Miami for three. Yes!

So instead of Spurs swing plus four Miami goes up by three more. Ridiculous when trying to play a younger, more athletic team.

:troll

[therealtruth]

at least 90% of the vitriolic hate on manu comes from posters that joined in 2012/2013. They talk about manu being washed up for 5 years, not worth his contract, bla bla bla. I'm pretty sure its simply a matter that they didnt follow the team before, or joined the forum/made the account to troll.

that said, despite 2-3 solid and even above average games in comparison to the rest of his 12-13 season, manu played a terrible finals and deserves heaps of criticism. However, considering his role on the team throughout the season, its pretty unfair to pin the loss on him. IMO Splitter deserves the biggest criticism, and aside from some grumbling during the series he didnt/doesnt get much. He was an important part of our team all year and in the finals he couldnt even stay on the court he was so bad. He had a favorable match up and wasnt able to capitalize. All year manu's staple offense was to feed splitter but the heat trapped manu and forced a lot of TO. And when manu DID manage to get it to splitter, it was almost always a block, miss or TO. If anyone totally failed to meet expectations its splitter, but since he doesnt have a fanbase you cant antagonize anyone by blaming him...

The criticism on Splitter is unwarranted. He didn't get enough chances to play and you can blame Pop for that. He would have adjusted if Pop would have let him play. He hit two crucial baskets in the fourth quarter of game 6.

[Skull-1]

The problem is that Splitter makes a mistake and gets yanked immediately. Meanwhile Manu can stagger around like a drunk, never adjusting a thing and Pop just lets him roll. Eight turnovers or ten....doesn't matter...

[Sean Cagney]

The problem is that Splitter makes a mistake and gets yanked immediately. Meanwhile Manu can stagger around like a drunk, never adjusting a thing and Pop just lets him roll. Eight turnovers or ten....doesn't matter...

Old POP didn't allow that crap, he has lost it IMO. The old POP yanks you after one bad play and sits you down right away with a red face, this one has lost it somewhat and given players a long leash.

[DMC]

Thing about Manu's passes is they are basically turnovers that the other team didn't catch.

[Skull-1]

Old POP didn't allow that crap, he has lost it IMO. The old POP yanks you after one bad play and sits you down right away with a red face, this one has lost it somewhat and given players a long leash.


LOL!


Thing about Manu's passes is they are basically turnovers that the other team didn't catch.


Oh but haven't you heard? Due to advanced stats Manu's turnovers "didn't really hurt us."


????????????????

[xmas1997]

That last point could have been Kawhi but he missed it. Cause and effect... no title for the team and fans. Kawhi can admit it...why can't you?

You know why he won't admit it, besides the fact he is a bandwagon fan and troll, he needs a scapegoat and Manu fits because he believes he is solely responsible which is totally irrational and ignorant. But then what can you expect from a troll?

Have people begun to notice that whenever someone posts about mistakes other Spurs made in the finals, that these idiots get mad and have to argue that it was either Pop, or Manu, or Tiago, but mainly Manu was the only one at fault?
This is totally preposterous and blindly ignorant of the facts. And even when shown clearly through statistics, they still won't acknowledge the obvious TRUTH.
That is perfect troll activity!

[Spursfanfromafar]

Manu's career - half man, half amazing. Enjoy him while he lasts even at less than full-best at his fag end of career.

[Spurs7794]

I was very annoyed with Manu for the entirety of the finals this year. With that said, anytime someone bashed him to me, I defended him because his body of work from 2003-2012...you don't just ignore that. The man raises his game when the stakes are highest...this was the first time in his career that didn't happen. He deserves our respect, regardless of his performance in the 2013 finals.

Also, all this bullshit about him costing us the finals...we had a 5 point lead with 28 seconds left. No matter how badly he played, how injured Parker was, how old Timmy is, how soft Splitter was, how cold Green went, how mentally weak Bonner is, how stupid Blair is, how senile Pop was, WE HAD THE CHAMPIONSHIP WON. Through a combination of historically bad luck and big plays by Miami, they yanked it from us. No way in hell will I ever blame any one person on the team for us losing that series.

[Skull-1]

That last point could have been Kawhi but he missed it. Cause and effect... no title for the team and fans. Kawhi can admit it...why can't you?


I believe Manu missed first.

Any way, Leonard was a complete beast in Game Six. Without his incredible play we aren't even in it.

So, let us compare stat lines for the ascendant Leonard to the washed up Ginobili shall we?


CATEGORY : Leonard / Ginobili

MIN: 46 / 35
FG: 9-14 / 2-5
3PT: 1-3 / 1-3
FT: 3-4 / 4-6
REB: 11 (9 DEF) / 4 (3 DEF)
ASST: 0 / 3
STL: 3 / 1
TO: 0 / 8
PTS: 22 / 9


Manu, Mr. wonderful, missed TWO free throws, not just one, either of which would have iced the game. So I will put the blame on him double that of Leonard.

Leonard was also the only one to score in OT if I recall, or for at least a good portion of it.

As I stated before and will repeat: Leonard did more to help and less to hurt the Spurs by a considerable, overwhelming margin. Manu Hurt us far more than he helped.

Without Leonard we aren't even close.

[xmas1997]

I believe Manu missed first.

Any way, Leonard was a complete beast in Game Six. Without his incredible play we aren't even in it.

So, let us compare stat lines for the ascendant Leonard to the washed up Ginobili shall we?


CATEGORY : Leonard / Ginobili

MIN: 46 / 35
FG: 9-14 / 2-5
3PT: 1-3 / 1-3
FT: 3-4 / 4-6
REB: 11 (9 DEF) / 4 (3 DEF)
ASST: 0 / 3
STL: 3 / 1
TO: 0 / 8
PTS: 22 / 9


Manu, Mr. wonderful, missed TWO free throws, not just one, either of which would have iced the game. So I will put the blame on him double that of Leonard.

Leonard was also the only one to score in OT if I recall, or for at least a good portion of it.

As I stated before and will repeat: Leonard did more to help and less to hurt the Spurs by a considerable, overwhelming margin. Manu Hurt us far more than he helped.

Without Leonard we aren't even close.

The point isn't "who did more or less of anything", it was the WHOLE team at fault. They play as a team, and they win or lose as a team. How on earth can you be so dense and ignorant not to see and understand this point?
You can keep using Manu as the scapegoat if you want to, but it is preposterous and very few take you seriously. You sound like a broken record!

[Skull-1]

The point isn't "who did more or less of anything", it was the WHOLE team at fault. They play as a team, and they win or lose as a team. How on earth can you be so dense and ignorant not to see and understand this point?
You can keep using Manu as the scapegoat if you want to, but it is preposterous and very few take you seriously. You sound like a broken record! Polly wanna cracker? Squawk! Shut up little boy. Manu was horrible. The rest of the team was desperately trying to overcome his mistakes. He threw Game Six away as if his kids were being held hostage or something.... Then he followed that epic failure with four turnovers in Game 4 that killed our chances of staying with Miami.

[TheGreatYacht]

Who gives a shit about this dumb thread. Manu will always be remembered for passing the ball to Heat players throughout the NBA Finals, especially the 8 turnovers in Game 6. Manu Turnobili... People remember the present. Only LOSERS live in the past. PERIOD.

[TheGreatYacht]

You know why he won't admit it, besides the fact he is a bandwagon fan and troll, he needs a scapegoat and Manu fits because he believes he is solely responsible which is totally irrational and ignorant. But then what can you expect from a troll?

Have people begun to notice that whenever someone posts about mistakes other Spurs made in the finals, that these idiots get mad and have to argue that it was either Pop, or Manu, or Tiago, but mainly Manu was the only one at fault?
This is totally preposterous and blindly ignorant of the facts. And even when shown clearly through statistics, they still won't acknowledge the obvious TRUTH.
That is perfect troll activity!TRUTH = Pop and Manu are the most to blame for Game 6 loss and costing Timmy his 5th ring. IDIOTS = The Popsuckers and Manutards like yourself that insist on spreading the loss on the whole team. That's what stats are for. Granted that Manu usually does more than what the stats show but this time he did a lot worse that what the stats showed. He was a decrement to the team.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Only LOSERS live in the past. PERIOD.
LOL the irony.

God, such a contradicting, hypocritical kid it's so hilarious lmao

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Polly wanna cracker? Squawk! Shut up little boy. Manu was horrible. The rest of the team was desperately trying to overcome his mistakes. He threw Game Six away as if his kids were being held hostage or something.... Then he followed that epic failure with four turnovers in Game 4 that killed our chances of staying with Miami.

dude we get it. You're like that redneck that dismisses facts cause you think you're smarter than everyone. You got owned on a logical standard and a ethical standard. You're just repeating yourself now, yet somehow manage to get owned by new shit every time.

[TheGreatYacht]

dude we get it. You're like that redneck that dismisses facts cause you think you're smarter than everyone. You got owned on a logical standard and a ethical standard. You're just repeating yourself now, yet somehow manage to get owned by new shit every time.Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.
"Losers live in the past. ?PERIOD".

goong by your own words

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.

Plus idiot here you go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVXMPfiGeqs

ALL-STAR GAME IN 2011 (SEVEN YEARS AGO - IDIOT)

How about his 35 point and 26 point performance against the Thunder in 2012?
Where was our team at the end of the year without Manu? Worse streak in recent history?
How about his 30 point performance and stepback for 3 shot to save us in game 5 against Grizzles

Not far enough? Let me know if I should go further. I barely scratched the surface bro

[xmas1997]

As ElNono said to me, "so you expected to change their minds?"
Best just use these trolls for comic relief because they need a scapegoat and won't accept reality regardless of stats to the contrary. And in this case they want Manu to be their scapegoat.
They are what they are.
All you can do is laugh at them. Otherwise you fall into their trap and satisfy their trolling.

[Skull-1]

dude we get it. You're like that redneck that dismisses facts cause you think you're smarter than everyone. You got owned on a logical standard and a ethical standard. You're just repeating yourself now, yet somehow manage to get owned by new shit every time.

Oh REALLY? I got owned logically and ethically? I think not!

[Skull-1]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.


All I ever hear around here is, "HEY! YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE MANU GINOBILI!! HE USED TO BE REALLY AWESOME!! YOU OWE HIM RESPECT!!!"

[xmas1997]

Oh REALLY? I got owned logically and ethically? I think not!

Truth hurts, huh troll?

[Skull-1]

Truth hurts, huh troll?


Truth only hurts when it is true. In this case: EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Sorry Hans, wrong guess.

[xmas1997]

Truth only hurts when it is true. In this case: EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Sorry Hans, wrong guess.

Maybe so, but at least we've succeeded in making a mockery of this thread which turned sour as soon as the Manu as scapegoat posters entered.
Thanks for your help here too.:downspin:

[Skull-1]

Maybe so, but at least we've succeeded in making a mockery of this thread which turned sour as soon as the Manu as scapegoat posters entered.
Thanks for your help here too.:downspin:

When it comes to making a mockery of things, you don't need any help... You're about as good at religion, logic, and insults as Manu was at basketball in Game 6.

[xmas1997]

When it comes to making a mockery of things, you don't need any help... You're about as good at religion, logic, and insults as Manu was at basketball in Game 6.

Keep going! Don't stop now!
You're doing a great job!
:hang

[cd021]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.

That is a complete joke right? :lol

11-12-Best statistical season. Career high in FG % (52.5) 3PT % (41) AND Free-throw % (87.6) He also averaged 13ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 4.5 apg in just 23 mpg. P.E.R- 24.1

10-11 season-He lead the team is scoring (17.4). The Spurs won 61 games. He broke his arm, and still averaged 20 ppg against Tony Allen in the Playoffs. P.E.R-19.0

09-10 season- Averaged 16.5 ppg, and 5 apg in just 28 mpg. His strong play allowed us to sneek in the playoffs. That was the season where Parker missed 27 games, RJ came over from Milwakeee and Duncan was on the decline (the lowest scoring and rebounding numbers of his career to that point that season. P.E.R.-21.7

Don't ignore the last three seasons, just so you can call someone "Manutards":rollinIt makes your look stupid when you're proven wrong. Ask Skull-1. He has been reduced to a complete joke by consistently refuting [irrefutable] statistics and doctoring his own to prove his point, which is incorrect to being with.

And I already I broke down Manu's turnovers in every game in the series, in this thread) His 12 turnovers only cost the 13pts. In Game 7 he scored 34 points when factoring in his points off assists and individual scoring (34% 1/3 of our total offense).

[cd021]

TRUTH = Pop and Manu are the most to blame for Game 6 loss and costing Timmy his 5th ring. IDIOTS = The Popsuckers and Manutards like yourself that insist on spreading the loss on the whole team. That's what stats are for. Granted that Manu usually does more than what the stats show but this time he did a lot worse that what the stats showed. He was a decrement to the team.


Game 1- 3 assists -8 points (2 assists for 3 pointers, from Neal and Green)

turnover

1.Bosh made 15 foot jumper=2 points

1 turnover=2 pts (Ginobili-13 pts- 8 points off assists=21 points)

Game 2- 1 Assist-2 points (to Duncan for a dunk)

Turnovers
1. Wade Misses 20 Foot Jumper=0 pts
2. Chris Anderson Made Layup=2pts
3. Allen 3pt FG-3pts

3 Turnovers=5 pts (5 pts, 2 pts off assists=7 pts)

Game-3-6 assists-15 points (3 assists for 3 pointers, 2 from Neal, & 1 for Parker)

Turnovers-
1. James makes layup=2pts
2. Miller makes 3pt FG=3pts

2 turnover for 5pts= (7 pts, 15 points off assists=21 pts)

Game 4- 2 Assists- 4 points (both assists to Duncan for layups)

Turnover

1 Wade Missed 20 foot jumper

1 turnover-0 pts (5 pts, 4 points off assists=9 pts)

Game-5-10 Assists-25 Points (4 assists for 3 pointers)

Turnovers-

1.Battier missed 3pt shot,
2. Wade Lost ball out of bounds
3. James 2 of 2 Made Free-throws=2 pts
2 pts on 3 turnovers (Ginobili 24 points, 25 points off assists=49 pts)

Game 6-3 Assists-6 Points-(2 layups for Duncan, 1 for Splitter)

1. Wade Missed 12 foot Jumper [Offensive rebound Battier Makes 3pt FG]=3 pts
2. Chalmers Travels=0 pts3. James Out of bound, T.O,=0 Pts
4.James Misses 16 Footer,=0 Pts
5. Lebron Steals and is fouled by Ginobili 2 FTM=2 Pts
6. James Misses 17 Foot jumper=0 Pts
7. James, Lost Ball, turnover,=0 Pts
8. Allen makes 2 of 2 free throws=2pts

8 turnovers 7 points off turnovers (Ginobili 9 pts, 6 pts off assists=15pts)

Game-7-5 assists, 12 points (2 assists for 3 pt 1 Leonard, 1 Diaw)
Turnovers:
1.James makes 17 Footer, =2 pts
2. James Makes 2 Free throw =2 pts
3. James Makes 1 of 2 Free-throws=1pt
4. Bosh turnover out of bounds

4 Turnovers, 5 points scored (Ginobili 18 pts, 12 points off assists=30 pts)

Totals=7 games Vs. Miami

22 Turnovers

26-Points Off Turnovers

13-Extra FGA (Additional FG attempts from Miami created off Ginobili's turnovers)

7-Made FGs off Ginobili turnovers

1.1 Points Per Shot (very bad)

Manu-

81 -Points Scored (11.6 per game)

72-Points off assists (10 points off assists per game)

30-Assisted FG (4.3 per game)


Clearly his turnovers had minimal effect. Miami only attempted 13 shots despite 22 Ginobili turnovers and only connected on 7 in 7 games. Conversely Manu's points off assists factored in with his points scored actually contributed 21.8 PPG or 22.3 % of the spurs overall offense in the series while playing only 58% of the time in the series.


I had to repost my own post just to shown how incorrect you are that Manu cost us a title.

Enjoy explaining this one...

[xmas1997]

That is a complete joke right? :lol

11-12-Best statistical season. Career high in FG % (52.5) 3PT % (41) AND Free-throw % (87.6) He also averaged 13ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 4.5 apg in just 23 mpg. P.E.R- 24.1

10-11 season-He lead the team is scoring (17.4). The Spurs won 61 games. He broke his arm, and still averaged 20 ppg against Tony Allen in the Playoffs. P.E.R-19.0

09-10 season- Averaged 16.5 ppg, and 5 apg in just 28 mpg. His strong play allowed us to sneek in the playoffs. That was the season where Parker missed 27 games, RJ came over from Milwakeee and Duncan was on the decline (the lowest scoring and rebounding numbers of his career to that point that season. P.E.R.-21.7

Don't ignore the last three seasons, just so you can call someone "Manutards":rollinIt makes your look stupid when you're proven wrong. Ask Skull-1. He has been reduced to a complete joke by consistently refuting [irrefutable] statistics and doctoring his own to prove his point, which is incorrect to being with.

And I already I broke down Manu's turnovers in every game in the series, in this thread) His 12 turnovers only cost the 13pts. In Game 7 he scored 34 points when factoring in his points off assists and individual scoring (34% 1/3 of our total offense).

I honestly think these guys just need a scapegoat and they have chosen Manu instead of blaming the whole team. There is at least four or five of them hating on Manu.
Either that, or they are just trolling and trying to get their kicks off.
I can't believe they can be so obtuse otherwise.

[Skull-1]

Ask Skull-1. He has been reduced to a complete joke by consistently refuting [irrefutable] statistics and doctoring his own to prove his point, which is incorrect to being with.

How did I doctor my statistics, moron? I listed TOTAL SHOTS. Anyone who can add can see precisely what I was saying and it was dead on accurate. I had already posted breakdowns by FG, 3PT, and FT. I was making yet another point in the hope of peeling the scales off your eyes.

Irrefutable statistics. LMAO. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Whatcha gonna believe, a bunch of squishy numbers that serve your idiotic agenda or your lying eyes that supposedly watched the games?

Talk about doctoring arguments, you're the one who tried to laughably prove that Manu didn't hurt us with his incessant turnovers and bad shots when any objective observer could see he did.

[Skull-1]

Per game. Per game. Blah blah blah. I already showed that a per game analysis of Manu drastically underscores how BAD he played. He had a one game outlier that saved him from looking as bad as he actually was.

I will put it in simple terms. Five horrible games and two awesome games can make a player look average....on average. But the trend is the guy sucks. Simple really. Except for you homers. And Manu didn't have but ONE awesome game...and one okay one until he wet himself in the fourth quarter of Game 7.

[cd021]

I've put you on my Ignore list "Skull-1" don't bother direct quoting me. I've had enough of your B.S. logic.

[Skull-1]

I've put you on my Ignore list "Skull-1" don't bother direct quoting me. I've had enough of your B.S. logic.


Allow me to return the favor regarding your B.S. ILLOGIC and Manu homerism.

"Manu didn't hurt us with his turnovers." - cd021

[spurs10]

Game 1- 3 assists -8 points (2 assists for 3 pointers, from Neal and Green)

turnover

1.Bosh made 15 foot jumper=2 points

1 turnover=2 pts (Ginobili-13 pts- 8 points off assists=21 points)

Game 2- 1 Assist-2 points (to Duncan for a dunk)

Turnovers
1. Wade Misses 20 Foot Jumper=0 pts
2. Chris Anderson Made Layup=2pts
3. Allen 3pt FG-3pts

3 Turnovers=5 pts (5 pts, 2 pts off assists=7 pts)

Game-3-6 assists-15 points (3 assists for 3 pointers, 2 from Neal, & 1 for Parker)

Turnovers-
1. James makes layup=2pts
2. Miller makes 3pt FG=3pts

2 turnover for 5pts= (7 pts, 15 points off assists=21 pts)

Game 4- 2 Assists- 4 points (both assists to Duncan for layups)

Turnover

1 Wade Missed 20 foot jumper

1 turnover-0 pts (5 pts, 4 points off assists=9 pts)

Game-5-10 Assists-25 Points (4 assists for 3 pointers)

Turnovers-

1.Battier missed 3pt shot,
2. Wade Lost ball out of bounds
3. James 2 of 2 Made Free-throws=2 pts
2 pts on 3 turnovers (Ginobili 24 points, 25 points off assists=49 pts)

Game 6-3 Assists-6 Points-(2 layups for Duncan, 1 for Splitter)

1. Wade Missed 12 foot Jumper [Offensive rebound Battier Makes 3pt FG]=3 pts
2. Chalmers Travels=0 pts3. James Out of bound, T.O,=0 Pts
4.James Misses 16 Footer,=0 Pts
5. Lebron Steals and is fouled by Ginobili 2 FTM=2 Pts
6. James Misses 17 Foot jumper=0 Pts
7. James, Lost Ball, turnover,=0 Pts
8. Allen makes 2 of 2 free throws=2pts

8 turnovers 7 points off turnovers (Ginobili 9 pts, 6 pts off assists=15pts)

Game-7-5 assists, 12 points (2 assists for 3 pt 1 Leonard, 1 Diaw)
Turnovers:
1.James makes 17 Footer, =2 pts
2. James Makes 2 Free throw =2 pts
3. James Makes 1 of 2 Free-throws=1pt
4. Bosh turnover out of bounds

4 Turnovers, 5 points scored (Ginobili 18 pts, 12 points off assists=30 pts)

Totals=7 games Vs. Miami

22 Turnovers

26-Points Off Turnovers

13-Extra FGA (Additional FG attempts from Miami created off Ginobili's turnovers)

7-Made FGs off Ginobili turnovers

1.1 Points Per Shot (very bad)

Manu-

81 -Points Scored (11.6 per game)

72-Points off assists (10 points off assists per game)

30-Assisted FG (4.3 per game)


Clearly his turnovers had minimal effect. Miami only attempted 13 shots despite 22 Ginobili turnovers and only connected on 7 in 7 games. Conversely Manu's points off assists factored in with his points scored actually contributed 21.8 PPG or 22.3 % of the spurs overall offense in the series while playing only 58% of the time in the series.


I had to repost my own post just to shown how incorrect you are that Manu cost us a title.

Enjoy explaining this one...Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....:toast

[Skull-1]

Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....:toast

Interesting but highly flawed.

[Man In Black]

Man.. the denial is as thick as skull's skull. This will be the last time I post a response to you. Can't teach the unteachable. Some of you like to live in the dark because dark is all you know and this is coming from someone who's been MIB for a really long time. You better recognize that like Kawhi, there were members of the TEAM that did more positive than negative but even a great one like Kawhi can miss a shot at locking up a title. That's what happened at that moment in time. He had a shot and missed it.

RECOGNIZE.

For you the following quote applies,"Some people show up on this board and appear foolish. But when they post, any doubt that they are fools is completely removed."

[xmas1997]

Man.. the denial is as thick as skull's skull. This will be the last time I post a response to you. Can't teach the unteachable. Some of you like to live in the dark because dark is all you know and this is coming from someone who's been MIB for a really long time. You better recognize that like Kawhi, there were members of the TEAM that did more positive than negative but even a great one like Kawhi can miss a shot at locking up a title. That's what happened at that moment in time. He had a shot and missed it.

RECOGNIZE.

For you the following quote applies,"Some people show up on this board and appear foolish. But when they post, any doubt that they are fools is completely removed."

It does no good to try to reason with skull, or TE, or Tgy. The unreasonable do not pay attention to reason.
As ElNono says, "and you expected to change their minds?" :lol
All of them have gone beyond just being fools, they are in total denial. That is why I am convinced they are trolling this forum because on every thread they appear, they post crazy inflammatory ignorant BS with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Sense apparently does not need to make sense as far as they are concerned.
Trolls will be trolls. They get their kicks trying to piss others off. Just laugh at them, that's what they hate the most.:lol

[Sean Cagney]

Manu did not play well in the finals and even he will tell you he was not playing well, period. I won't sit here though and just blame him for the finals when in all honesty if Pop has Tim in there in the last 28 seconds this is all null now and we are not talking about it, so........ I am blaming a few here and not just Manu. A bad set of events happened to lose the Finals and it was not meant to be! Things go like that sometimes.

Did Manu play great in the finals or even good sides a game or two? NO, any fan can see that and he himself will even tell you he tried but he did not play good at all most of the finals, period. We are beating a dead horse to death though with these posts on him and so on. We have to get over it some day soon, time to move on and see what he or we can do in the future to win another finals if we are blessed enough to get there again.

[xmas1997]

Manu did not play well in the finals and even he will tell you he was not playing well, period. I won't sit here though and just blame him for the finals when in all honesty if Pop has Tim in there in the last 28 seconds this is all null now and we are not talking about it, so........ I am blaming a few here and not just Manu. A bad set of events happened to lose the Finals and it was not meant to be! Things go like that sometimes.

Did Manu play great in the finals or even good sides a game or two? NO, any fan can see that and he himself will even tell you he tried but he did not play good at all most of the finals, period. We are beating a dead horse to death though with these posts on him and so on. We have to get over it some day soon, time to move on and see what he or we can do in the future to win another finals if we are blessed enough to get there again.

I agree and even posted so at the beginning, but I wasn't about to beat a dead horse into the ground. And cases can be made, and already have been made, for other players contributing to the losses too, as well as the Heat rising up and flat taking it away from them. I won't go back into all those because we've read them already.
You are right though in that we should be focused now on the future.
And we should be proud of the accomplishments the Spurs made this season.

[Proxy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVXMPfiGeqs



Man, I'd love to see Manu, Dirk, and Gasol play together. That all-star game was fun to watch for those stretches.

[Skull-1]

Manu did not play well in the finals and even he will tell you he was not playing well, period. I won't sit here though and just blame him for the finals when in all honesty if Pop has Tim in there in the last 28 seconds this is all null now and we are not talking about it, so........ I am blaming a few here and not just Manu. A bad set of events happened to lose the Finals and it was not meant to be! Things go like that sometimes.

Did Manu play great in the finals or even good sides a game or two? NO, any fan can see that and he himself will even tell you he tried but he did not play good at all most of the finals, period. We are beating a dead horse to death though with these posts on him and so on. We have to get over it some day soon, time to move on and see what he or we can do in the future to win another finals if we are blessed enough to get there again.


Manu doesn't seem to take much blame.

He played horribly. Out of control. If he doesn't get a handle on himself he will screw us again next season.

The problem around here is that any objective fan can see that manu wet the bed, but the board homers can't. They invent ridiculous arguments like cd021 that claim Manu's poor decisions and turnovers didn't hurt us. It is laughable to even suggest such a thing. Had he played with some control we would have won Game Six or Seven.

[Skull-1]

I agree and even posted so at the beginning, but I wasn't about to beat a dead horse into the ground. And cases can be made, and already have been made, for other players contributing to the losses too, as well as the Heat rising up and flat taking it away from them. I won't go back into all those because we've read them already.
You are right though in that we should be focused now on the future.
And we should be proud of the accomplishments the Spurs made this season.


If past is prologue, Manu will screw us again. They better get him to adjust his game or we will see this happen again, only it will likely be earlier than The Finals.

[TMTTRIO]

Sad you can't just move on with. OK Manu was awful. Nothing you say or do is going to change the situation or make it better. OK so we know what you think of Manu for the 100th time.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu doesn't seem to take much blame.

He played horribly. Out of control. If he doesn't get a handle on himself he will screw us again next season.

The problem around here is that any objective fan can see that manu wet the bed, but the board homers can't. They invent ridiculous arguments like cd021 that claim Manu's poor decisions and turnovers didn't hurt us. It is laughable to even suggest such a thing. Had he played with some control we would have won Game Six or Seven.

If they say those TO's did not hurt us and try to claim he played well sides that one game and a half of another one then they are flat out in DENIAL, true. I see both sides but fans I talk to who are not even Spurs fans say he played horrible, hell Manu knows it himself. I think there is no argument there to be had, he sucked for Manu.

[cd021]

Let look at this as an equasion

Manu's scoring=11.6ppg
Manu's points off assists-10 ppg (72 total points scored on his 30 assists)
=21.6 "true ppg"

Deduct Manu's points off turnovers (how many points Miami scored off of Manu's 22 turnovers)
=26 or 3.7 per game

3.7-21.6=17.9 "True points per game" He contributed 22.3 % of the Spurs overall offense.

[DMC]

Plus idiot here you go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVXMPfiGeqs

ALL-STAR GAME IN 2011 (SEVEN YEARS AGO - IDIOT)

How about his 35 point and 26 point performance against the Thunder in 2012?
Where was our team at the end of the year without Manu? Worse streak in recent history?
How about his 30 point performance and stepback for 3 shot to save us in game 5 against Grizzles

Not far enough? Let me know if I should go further. I barely scratched the surface bro

Wow most of those passes were missed shots, not great passes and a few were turnovers. Seriously? Manu was great, but right now he's a liability more often than not.

[DMC]

Let look at this as an equasion

Manu's scoring=11.6ppg
Manu's points off assists-10 ppg (72 total points scored on his 30 assists)
=21.6 "true ppg"

Deduct Manu's points off turnovers (how many points Miami scored off of Manu's 22 turnovers)
=26 or 3.7 per game

3.7-21.6=17.9 "True points per game" He contributed 22.3 % of the Spurs overall offense.
That's a misleading stat. You put it up there like he's solely responsible for that percentage of the offense, but he's not. Someone scored and got credit for the score, so they are responsible for the points. Take your 22% and give Manu what he deserves from it, not the full percentage. Even if you were liberal and gave him half, he's responsible for 11% of the total offense. That's about 1 of 10 guys. 22% is about 1 of 5 guys. Shouldn't he be responsible for at least 1 of the 5 on the floor since he's 1/3rd of the big 3?

[DMC]

Game 1- 3 assists -8 points (2 assists for 3 pointers, from Neal and Green)

turnover

1.Bosh made 15 foot jumper=2 points

1 turnover=2 pts (Ginobili-13 pts- 8 points off assists=21 points)

Game 2- 1 Assist-2 points (to Duncan for a dunk)

Turnovers
1. Wade Misses 20 Foot Jumper=0 pts
2. Chris Anderson Made Layup=2pts
3. Allen 3pt FG-3pts

3 Turnovers=5 pts (5 pts, 2 pts off assists=7 pts)

Game-3-6 assists-15 points (3 assists for 3 pointers, 2 from Neal, & 1 for Parker)

Turnovers-
1. James makes layup=2pts
2. Miller makes 3pt FG=3pts

2 turnover for 5pts= (7 pts, 15 points off assists=21 pts)

Game 4- 2 Assists- 4 points (both assists to Duncan for layups)

Turnover

1 Wade Missed 20 foot jumper

1 turnover-0 pts (5 pts, 4 points off assists=9 pts)

Game-5-10 Assists-25 Points (4 assists for 3 pointers)

Turnovers-

1.Battier missed 3pt shot,
2. Wade Lost ball out of bounds
3. James 2 of 2 Made Free-throws=2 pts
2 pts on 3 turnovers (Ginobili 24 points, 25 points off assists=49 pts)

Game 6-3 Assists-6 Points-(2 layups for Duncan, 1 for Splitter)

1. Wade Missed 12 foot Jumper [Offensive rebound Battier Makes 3pt FG]=3 pts
2. Chalmers Travels=0 pts3. James Out of bound, T.O,=0 Pts
4.James Misses 16 Footer,=0 Pts
5. Lebron Steals and is fouled by Ginobili 2 FTM=2 Pts
6. James Misses 17 Foot jumper=0 Pts
7. James, Lost Ball, turnover,=0 Pts
8. Allen makes 2 of 2 free throws=2pts

8 turnovers 7 points off turnovers (Ginobili 9 pts, 6 pts off assists=15pts)

Game-7-5 assists, 12 points (2 assists for 3 pt 1 Leonard, 1 Diaw)
Turnovers:
1.James makes 17 Footer, =2 pts
2. James Makes 2 Free throw =2 pts
3. James Makes 1 of 2 Free-throws=1pt
4. Bosh turnover out of bounds

4 Turnovers, 5 points scored (Ginobili 18 pts, 12 points off assists=30 pts)

Totals=7 games Vs. Miami

22 Turnovers

26-Points Off Turnovers

13-Extra FGA (Additional FG attempts from Miami created off Ginobili's turnovers)

7-Made FGs off Ginobili turnovers

1.1 Points Per Shot (very bad)

Manu-

81 -Points Scored (11.6 per game)

72-Points off assists (10 points off assists per game)

30-Assisted FG (4.3 per game)


Clearly his turnovers had minimal effect. Miami only attempted 13 shots despite 22 Ginobili turnovers and only connected on 7 in 7 games. Conversely Manu's points off assists factored in with his points scored actually contributed 21.8 PPG or 22.3 % of the spurs overall offense in the series while playing only 58% of the time in the series.


I had to repost my own post just to shown how incorrect you are that Manu cost us a title.

Enjoy explaining this one...

This is more about the Heat's inability to score off turnovers. It has no bearing on the fact that Manu turned the ball over an incredible number of times and basically gave the game and possibly the series away.

You can twist the numbers until their sums suit your argument, but in doing so you discount the effort the rest of the team put in to get where they were and act as if it was just Manu out there keeping it real. Anyone without Manu colored glasses on who was watching the game saw what a liability the guy was. Moments in the game hold more weight than some other moments. That last quarter in game 6 held more importance than that first quarter simply because decisions are made that normally wouldn't be made in the flow of a game when you still have 36 minutes to play. Teams force turnovers, get out and run, take chances and try to tie or win. Teams with leads go into a prevent offense mode and often give up huge runs. Manu really helped that by turning the ball over during pivotal moments in the game.

Compare it to a marathon where two runners end up neck and neck 100 feet from the finish. They sprint and one overtakes the other by a nose. You can say that the marathon was won at the beginning, but the truth is that deficits can be overcome if you have time, and if you know you have a deficit. Once the end nears, the importance of decisions increases exponentially.

[cd021]

If they say those TO's did not hurt us and try to claim he played well sides that one game and a half of another one then they are flat out in DENIAL, true. I see both sides but fans I talk to who are not even Spurs fans say he played horrible, hell Manu knows it himself. I think there is no argument there to be had, he sucked for Manu.

I think you are looking at his performance in the wrong light. He is 35 and is counted on to be the 3rd best player on a title team, while being the primary ball handler when most of the time he is on the court, with teammates that included.

Jospeh-A D-League to playoff backup PG. Miami didn't respect his shot and sagged off closing drive lanes and focusing on Manu, while ignoring him.

Bonner a pick and pop big who can't create for himself.

Splitter- A dependent P&R bigman who frequently struggled at finishing at the rim ( he was blocked by James, Wade, and Battier in that series)


Manu's turnovers didn't help us, true, but they surely didn't harm us. 72 points off assists to just 26 points off turnovers shows just how effiective his passing was when he connected on his target.

Turnovers aren't created equally. If he turned the ball over 3 times that lead to 9 points being scored people would ignore it because he only had 3 turnovers.

Since he turned the ball over 8 times, people tend to complain that it cost the team a lot of points. Its the exact opposite. His 8 T.O's cost the Spurs a grand total of 9 points. Most of those occurred during the 1st 3 quarters, when Miami was severely out played. The Spurs as a whole commited the same amount as Miami did and actually still had more possessions and field goal attempts in Game 6.

In Game-7 his turnovers less much less costly in retrospect. His 4 T.O's cost the spurs 5 points. Conversely his 5 assists created 12 points. In addition, he connected on 8-14 and scored 18 points. that 1/3 of our offense.



I actually wouldn't believe anything Manu, or Tony or Tim said following the most crushing loss of their careers. They are never won to point fingers but instead should the blame. Manu wasn't Manu from 05' but this really isn't different from how he played this past season. Oddly enough this past playoff is very similar to the 11-12 postseason where he put up a classic Manu game (34 in Game 5 against OKC).

Skull-1 knows he had his main argument discredited (by me) and yet continues to complain. I ignore-listed him because he is the most blatant troll, Ive encountered on ST. I'm just one of 4 who have called him out on his B.S.

[wildbill2u]

Has anyone mentioned that we now have 3 Hall of Famers and one possible All Star to go forward with. Granted that the Big 3 are getting older, they can still play at a high level and Kwahi is arriving at that stature as well. No matter how you rate these four guys, all of them can ball.

Having a Big 4 is a luxury that no other team has.

[Sean Cagney]

I think you are looking at his performance in the wrong light. He is 35 and is counted on to be the 3rd best player on a title team, while being the primary ball handler when most of the time he is on the court, with teammates that included.

Not really, he had costly TO's in the games and did not play well at all really sides that one game and half or so of game 7, it is what it is and I won't overanalyze it. He will tell you he wished he could have done more, most saw he was playing bad and there is really no way to sugar coat or way around it. Game 6 I won't even mention, that pretty much shot us in the foot and he was a part of that on top of it sadly. I don't care how much the TO's ammounted to which was 9 pts you said? That means if he turns it over one less time we win by a point or so? How many points could we have gotten off one less of those TO's? Possibly two or three and we win by a few instead of having to come back in that 4th. Manu's TO's early in that fourth got them back in that game when others were on the bench, make no if and or buts about it that stretch basically was the game sides us coming back late and taking the lead again (That was a key stretch by Miami there).

Manu did not play well for him at all and most will admit that, if you say he played good then so be it but I wish he could have done a little bit more but that 35 year old body would not allow it as a whole it seems. He was not 012 Manu even or near it, he was stumbling and handing the ball to the other team at times and making me and every fan watch shake their head and say what was that? He played well in Spurts, but her was nowhere near the Manu we great to love and helped us win 3 titles. It is more than just how much they scored on the other end from the TO's btw, it took away from our opportunity down there in which we could have had a little lead late and not needed a comeback at the end to try and pull it out (We gave up a good lead in game 6 in the 4th).

BTW I like Manu and am still a fan, but he didn't play good in the finals and for most of the playoffs, he was not his normal self who even used to be ICE at FT's down the stretch (That part even left him some). I don't blame him solely for the loss though in the finals, he was a part of it with some plays but it was hardly all his fault we lost the finals when others dissapeared FULLY during game 6 and 7 (Everyone basically sides Tim and Kawhi and Manu some in game 7).

I disagree fully though the TO's surely did not harm us, when you have them late in a key game they surely do harm you no matter what you did before and how many points they got off them prior to that, one KEY TO can harm you so they do harm you and to have over 5 to's in a game no matter who you are is pretty costly and bad. I won't say they did not harm us at all.

[therealtruth]

One thing that people forget to mention is that it wasn't just turnovers but Ginobili's defense was horrible in game 6 especially down the stretch. He was out of position on a lot of key possessions.

[therealtruth]

Has anyone mentioned that we now have 3 Hall of Famers and one possible All Star to go forward with. Granted that the Big 3 are getting older, they can still play at a high level and Kwahi is arriving at that stature as well. No matter how you rate these four guys, all of them can ball.

Having a Big 4 is a luxury that no other team has.

I guess you didn't see what the Nets did over the summer.

[Skull-1]

Let look at this as an equasion

Manu's scoring=11.6ppg
Manu's points off assists-10 ppg (72 total points scored on his 30 assists)
=21.6 "true ppg"

Deduct Manu's points off turnovers (how many points Miami scored off of Manu's 22 turnovers)
=26 or 3.7 per game

3.7-21.6=17.9 "True points per game" He contributed 22.3 % of the Spurs overall offense.

And 100% of our crunch time turnovers.


You are a delusional. He killed momentum, took points off the board, and gave life to Miami. His stupid turnovers wore down our defense and his early shot clock bricks gave the Heat time to recover.

[Skull-1]

I think you are looking at his performance in the wrong light. He is 35 and is counted on to be the 3rd best player on a title team, while being the primary ball handler when most of the time he is on the court, with teammates that included.

Jospeh-A D-League to playoff backup PG. Miami didn't respect his shot and sagged off closing drive lanes and focusing on Manu, while ignoring him.

Bonner a pick and pop big who can't create for himself.

Splitter- A dependent P&R bigman who frequently struggled at finishing at the rim ( he was blocked by James, Wade, and Battier in that series)


Manu's turnovers didn't help us, true, but they surely didn't harm us. 72 points off assists to just 26 points off turnovers shows just how effiective his passing was when he connected on his target.

Turnovers aren't created equally. If he turned the ball over 3 times that lead to 9 points being scored people would ignore it because he only had 3 turnovers.

Since he turned the ball over 8 times, people tend to complain that it cost the team a lot of points. Its the exact opposite. His 8 T.O's cost the Spurs a grand total of 9 points. Most of those occurred during the 1st 3 quarters, when Miami was severely out played. The Spurs as a whole commited the same amount as Miami did and actually still had more possessions and field goal attempts in Game 6.

In Game-7 his turnovers less much less costly in retrospect. His 4 T.O's cost the spurs 5 points. Conversely his 5 assists created 12 points. In addition, he connected on 8-14 and scored 18 points. that 1/3 of our offense.



I actually wouldn't believe anything Manu, or Tony or Tim said following the most crushing loss of their careers. They are never won to point fingers but instead should the blame. Manu wasn't Manu from 05' but this really isn't different from how he played this past season. Oddly enough this past playoff is very similar to the 11-12 postseason where he put up a classic Manu game (34 in Game 5 against OKC).

Skull-1 knows he had his main argument discredited (by me) and yet continues to complain. I ignore-listed him because he is the most blatant troll, Ive encountered on ST. I'm just one of 4 who have called him out on his B.S.


He isn't even in the top five.

Didn't hurt us? Most ridiculous statement of the year!

You haven't proven squat. You ignored me because you're tired of getting b slapped over your blind homerism.

Your so-called stats don't show what we all could see with our eyes and on the players' and coaches' faces. An aging, slower team trying to hold off a young, hungry team, only to see a supposedly clutch player throw the ball away over and over and over.


His total shot percentage was horrific and at critical times when we needed to burn clock and run the offense he was chucking up threes that bricked.


It takes a ton more energy to defend. Anyone who has ever played basketball knows this. Every Manu turnover gave the Heat life, drained our energy, and took our points off the board.

His turnovers cost nine points by your math. We needed one in regulation and three in OT. In no universe except yours do nine points scored by a player with eight turnovers costing nine points (and the cost was truly higher than that) "not hurt us."

Stick your stats in your ear.

[Skull-1]

Has anyone mentioned that we now have 3 Hall of Famers and one possible All Star to go forward with. Granted that the Big 3 are getting older, they can still play at a high level and Kwahi is arriving at that stature as well. No matter how you rate these four guys, all of them can ball.

Having a Big 4 is a luxury that no other team has.


Big 4? No way. Manu is not Big Anything.

[Skull-1]

One thing that people forget to mention is that it wasn't just turnovers but Ginobili's defense was horrible in game 6 especially down the stretch. He was out of position on a lot of key possessions.


I am sure cdouche021 has a "stat" for that which "proves" you wrong. Never mind what we all saw.

[cd021]

It is more than just how much they scored on the other end from the TO's btw, it took away from our opportunity down there in which we could have had a little lead late and not needed a comeback at the end to try and pull it out (We gave up a good lead in game 6 in the 4th).

Manu's postseason wasn't nearly as bad as it seems. He had good games in Game 3 and Game 6 of the GSW series and was a big part of Games 1,2 & 3 against the Lakers. He was also key in our Game 1, Game ,3 and especially Game 5, wins in the Finals. when you look solely at his scoring its isn't nearly as impressive.

Game 1- 13pts, 3 assists, 8 points off assists=21 total points

Game-3- 7 pts, 6 assists, 15 points off assists=22 total points

Game 5-24 pts, 10 assists, 25 points off assists=49 total points

Game-7- 18pts, 5 assists, 12 points off assists=30 total points

That is true. But I can't measure possessions that we never played offensively. My logic is that the turnovers he did have had, turned out to have minimal effect. The offensive he created far outweighed his mistakes. His turnovers wasn't the reason why Miami came back in game 6. Pop taking both Duncan, & Parker 5:30 minutes plus an full timeout, completely ruined our offense flow. Also benching Duncan with 28 seconds left.

Leaving Manu out there with Neal, Green, Splitter, & Diaw wasn't that smartest. Neal was the only other play who consistently can create offense for himself. Splitter and Green were ineffective and Diaw is much more effective playing with Duncan, Parker, Leonard and Green. That lineup was painful to watch, Miami could trap every single time Manu touched the ball and then could recover because Green can't dribble & Splitter can't seem to maneuver around a guard without getting blocked.

that's were the blame lies in my eyes. Pops decision making was baffling. Blaming Manu for game 6 isn't right IMO. His Game 7 was better than credited Parker struggled and he made plays and was the 3rd best Spur.

[cd021]

This is more about the Heat's inability to score off turnovers. It has no bearing on the fact that Manu turned the ball over an incredible number of times and basically gave the game and possibly the series away.

You can twist the numbers until their sums suit your argument, but in doing so you discount the effort the rest of the team put in to get where they were and act as if it was just Manu out there keeping it real. Anyone without Manu colored glasses on who was watching the game saw what a liability the guy was. Moments in the game hold more weight than some other moments. That last quarter in game 6 held more importance than that first quarter simply because decisions are made that normally wouldn't be made in the flow of a game when you still have 36 minutes to play. Teams force turnovers, get out and run, take chances and try to tie or win. Teams with leads go into a prevent offense mode and often give up huge runs. Manu really helped that by turning the ball over during pivotal moments in the game.

Compare it to a marathon where two runners end up neck and neck 100 feet from the finish. They sprint and one overtakes the other by a nose. You can say that the marathon was won at the beginning, but the truth is that deficits can be overcome if you have time, and if you know you have a deficit. Once the end nears, the importance of decisions increases exponentially.

My argument- Manu wasn't to blame for the Spurs losing. His turnovers, turned to have less effect on us than it seems. His playmaking had a much more positive effect than it seems.

Skull-1 Manu's turnovers were absolutely 100% the reason we lost the Finals.

My numbers are 100 percent relevant and unbiased to those arguments. How can be essentially copying EPSNs play-by- play be biased? :lol Just because you don't agree with my side doesn't mean I have a soft spot for Manu. I've historically been rather indifferent to him. Duncan was always my 1st, 2nd and 3rd favorite player.

By the way Most of Manu's turnovers occurred in the first the quarters of game 6, where we had clearly outplayed Miami. The reason, why they came back was the ineffective lineup that Pop trotted out for 5:30 Minutes of the forth. Keeping Duncan out there in place of Splitter for 3 minutes and then subbing Duncan out for Splitter and Neal or Green out for Parker would have allowed both of them to rest and keep a top offensive threat on the floor at all times.

I'm not trivializing the rest of the Spurs play to make Manu seem like a basketball god. He had more positive moments in the finals (more than anyone should reasonable expect from a high mileage 35 year old guard who is a title contending teams best play maker and 3rd option).

His performance actually is very similar to his regular season and almost identical to the previous 11-12 postseason (despite people believing that he played much better than he actually did that year) this is the new normal. Great play making (that creates alot of additional offense, and fairly high number in turnover rate. With occasional bursts of scoring spread out. He is much more suited for a forth or 5th option now. Leonard has to bridge the gap offensively.

I don't have a problem with your opinion, I just think its wrong.

[Skull-1]

And I think your opinion is wrong. Your stats don't show what happened. Not even close. Go rewatch the games. 6 and 7. His turnovers were just a part of it. Your moronic stats don't show the impact of Manu's overall inane decision making on our energy. On the extra possessions it gave Miami. On the demoralization it did to our team. On the points it cost our offense. Jacking up heat check threes he doesn't make any more, early in the clock when burning time is what we need to win.

Just like fouling Dirk. The dude left his headgear in the locker room.


Are you too stupid to see that nine shot clock violations are better than nine Manu turnovers? I won't even count the downtown bricks early in the shot clock.


Manu needs to be on a leash.

[cd021]

That's a misleading stat. You put it up there like he's solely responsible for that percentage of the offense, but he's not. Someone scored and got credit for the score, so they are responsible for the points. Take your 22% and give Manu what he deserves from it, not the full percentage. Even if you were liberal and gave him half, he's responsible for 11% of the total offense. That's about 1 of 10 guys. 22% is about 1 of 5 guys. Shouldn't he be responsible for at least 1 of the 5 on the floor since he's 1/3rd of the big 3?

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.

[Skull-1]

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.


Look at the passes that are off target resulting in either no shot or a turnover charged to the receiving player, geeze.

[cd021]

Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....:toast

Thanks. Yeah this take of Machine Gun is awesome (I was lucky enough to find footage of it) that and Killing Floor (at Monterrey Pop) are my favorites of his live stuff.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu's postseason wasn't nearly as bad as it seems. He had good games in Game 3 and Game 6 of the GSW series and was a big part of Games 1,2 & 3 against the Lakers. He was also key in our Game 1, Game ,3 and especially Game 5, wins in the Finals. when you look solely at his scoring its isn't nearly as impressive.

Game 1- 13pts, 3 assists, 8 points off assists=21 total points

Game-3- 7 pts, 6 assists, 15 points off assists=22 total points

Game 5-24 pts, 10 assists, 25 points off assists=49 total points

Game-7- 18pts, 5 assists, 12 points off assists=30 total points

That is true. But I can't measure possessions that we never played offensively. My logic is that the turnovers he did have had, turned out to have minimal effect. The offensive he created far outweighed his mistakes. His turnovers wasn't the reason why Miami came back in game 6. Pop taking both Duncan, & Parker 5:30 minutes plus an full timeout, completely ruined our offense flow. Also benching Duncan with 28 seconds left.

Leaving Manu out there with Neal, Green, Splitter, & Diaw wasn't that smartest. Neal was the only other play who consistently can create offense for himself. Splitter and Green were ineffective and Diaw is much more effective playing with Duncan, Parker, Leonard and Green. That lineup was painful to watch, Miami could trap every single time Manu touched the ball and then could recover because Green can't dribble & Splitter can't seem to maneuver around a guard without getting blocked.

that's were the blame lies in my eyes. Pops decision making was baffling. Blaming Manu for game 6 isn't right IMO. His Game 7 was better than credited Parker struggled and he made plays and was the 3rd best Spur.

Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

[ca®lo]

Anyone making a list of manu's top 5 post season t.o.'s? not that hard to find. easily going to fill that list in game 6 alone

[PlayNando]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manutards want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.
stopid post iss stopid per apr bhg

[Skull-1]

Anyone making a list of manu's top 5 post season t.o.'s? not that hard to find. easily going to fill that list in game 6 alone

Right you are. Don't tell the homers or they'll block you. Actually, you won't notice or care if they do because their homerism isn't worth reading any way.

[xmas1997]

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.




Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

It does no good showing them the holes in their arguments because they don't listen to reason if it does not fit their blind vision of it.
They just want a scapegoat and try to upset you if you do not agree with them.
It is so much easier to just ignore list them than try to correct their trolling.
Thank you both for your intelligent insightful and truly informative posts.

[Skull-1]

It does no good showing them the holes in their arguments because they don't listen to reason if it does not fit their blind vision of it.
They just want a scapegoat and try to upset you if you do not agree with them.
It is so much easier to just ignore list them than try to correct their trolling.
Thank you both for your intelligent insightful and truly informative posts.

Slurp slurp. Glue glug glug.

[xmas1997]

Now is probably a good time to get back on the topic of this thread.
And that means you too, skull, so do it, quit your lolly gagging.
Also, it is time for you to quit following me around from thread to thread making a fool of yourself.
:nope

[dylankerouac]

:corn: followed by :corn:

[cd021]

Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a shell of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.:flag:

[xmas1997]

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a shell of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.:flag:

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

[Skull-1]

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a shell of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.:flag:


Illusion. Allusion is a reference to something else.

At least you admit he is a shell of his former greatness. That is true.

[Skull-1]

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

He wasn't hurt. He was old and out of control.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He wasn't hurt. He was old and out of control.


get laiiiiid dude

[Skull-1]

get laiiiiid dude


I did. That why I didn't post for four hours.

[xmas1997]

I did. That why I didn't post for four hours.

He was talking about to a woman, skull, not to another man like TE or the great yacht.
Oh well, to each his or her own.
Who am I to judge? :lol

[Skull-1]

He was talking about to a woman, skull, not to another man like TE or the great yacht.
Oh well, to each his or her own.
Who am I to judge? :lol


You can't judge seeing as how you sleep with men for money. At least TE, TGY, and I do it for love.

[cd021]

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

89 games in 7 months. Injured then rehab, work his way back into a grove and then injured again and repeat process.

I really think he was more mentally tired than anything.

We have to have a 3rd ball handler so Manu's burdened can be lessened. Without him on our bench, we would be pretty lackluster. Someone who can run p&r while he spots up (and essentially rests on offense for a possession or two).

[xmas1997]

Belinelli is reputed to be a creator. He could be the difference next time.

[Skull-1]

Belinelli is reputed to be a creator. He could be the difference next time.

I doubt it, but a man can hope.

[SenorSpur]

Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate competitor. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be incumbent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.

[diego]

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be incumbent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Agreed. But with manu two things happen on top of getting older. One is that fans still expect him to produce the same (especially reinforced by last year being the highest paid player on the team, which was more of a coincidence than anything else). Two is that despite his now smaller role (23.2 mpg and 9 FGA in the regular season), tony's injury + the heat defense forced him to do more when he no longer can (in the finals despite 20% more minutes, he actually had less FGA, less assists and less rebounds). Its easy to blame Pop for bumping his minutes, but who could have run the offense outside of tony and manu? Neal and Green are limited offensive players. There wasnt a better option. Pop maybe could have gone more to leonard in ISO situations, but I think that criticism is more for tony who didnt take advantage of the heat switching lebron on to him (particularly down the stretch of game 6 this is true).

I dont think anyone can deny manu had a bad finals, but its another thing entirely to pin the finals loss entirely on him, especially when you consider the opponent.

[xmas1997]

Agreed. But with manu two things happen on top of getting older. One is that fans still expect him to produce the same (especially reinforced by last year being the highest paid player on the team, which was more of a coincidence than anything else). Two is that despite his now smaller role (23.2 mpg and 9 FGA in the regular season), tony's injury + the heat defense forced him to do more when he no longer can (in the finals despite 20% more minutes, he actually had less FGA, less assists and less rebounds). Its easy to blame Pop for bumping his minutes, but who could have run the offense outside of tony and manu? Neal and Green are limited offensive players. There wasnt a better option. Pop maybe could have gone more to leonard in ISO situations, but I think that criticism is more for tony who didnt take advantage of the heat switching lebron on to him (particularly down the stretch of game 6 this is true).

I dont think anyone can deny manu had a bad finals, but its another thing entirely to pin the finals loss entirely on him, especially when you consider the opponent.


This is true! Manu and TD were both dead tired, and TP was slightly hurt and tired by that time. The only ones who seemed to have any energy were Kawhi and Green. But the Heat were also tired so I admit that is a flimsy excuse.
However the Heat were younger except for maybe Wade and could summon that second burst of energy.
Regardless, all the second guessing and recaps won't change anything.
The Heat won, the Spurs lost and there is now a brand new season coming up.
And you can bet the Heat want to cement their legacy by winning it all again.
Hopefully the outcome is different this time!

[Skull-1]

Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate competitor. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be incumbent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.


cd021 seems to have forgotten. He has a "stat" for that.


Great post.

[SenorSpur]

cd021 seems to have forgotten. He has a "stat" for that.


Great post.

I've thoroughly enjoyed your previous posts on this subject, as well. :toast

[Skull-1]

I've thoroughly enjoyed your previous posts on this subject, as well. :toast


Thank you, sir. :toast

[SenorSpur]

Thank you, sir. :toast

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.

[Skull-1]

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.


Hard to argue against that when time is your enemy, especially facing a younger team.


Without time on the clock the other team can't make that last run to sink you.

Also, jogging up the court and setting the defense after a shot clock violation is a lot easier than sprinting to cover a fast break after a turnover.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.

LOL

[therealtruth]

This is true! Manu and TD were both dead tired, and TP was slightly hurt and tired by that time. The only ones who seemed to have any energy were Kawhi and Green. But the Heat were also tired so I admit that is a flimsy excuse.
However the Heat were younger except for maybe Wade and could summon that second burst of energy.
Regardless, all the second guessing and recaps won't change anything.
The Heat won, the Spurs lost and there is now a brand new season coming up.
And you can bet the Heat want to cement their legacy by winning it all again.
Hopefully the outcome is different this time!

That's why Pop shortening the rotation made no sense. He was willing to gamble on Ginobili and lost. He should have done the same for Splitter.


Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate competitor. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be incumbent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.

The key point is Ginobili did more good than bad in the past. With his Finals performance on offense/defense it's hard to argue that's still the case. He was as bad or worse defensively as he was on offense.

[Skull-1]

That's why Pop shortening the rotation made no sense. He was willing to gamble on Ginobili and lost. He should have done the same for Splitter.



The key point is Ginobili did more good than bad in the past. With his Finals performance on offense/defense it's hard to argue that's still the case. He was as bad or worse defensively as he was on offense.

[xmas1997]

See my last post!

[Skull-1]

See my last post!


"Stop following me around." - Xmas the Hypocrite

[xmas1997]

"Stop following me around." - Xmas the Hypocrite


See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.


Please just make it your LAST post. Do all of us a favor.

[xmas1997]

Please just make it your LAST post. Do all of us a favor.

See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.

[xmas1997]

See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.


Last post means no more. Why are you still here?

[xmas1997]

Last post means no more. Why are you still here?

As I said, see my last post.

[Skull-1]

As I said, see my last post.
Still waiting for it to be your last... Alas, none of us have such luck...

[xmas1997]

Still waiting for it to be your last... Alas, none of us have such luck...


You don't get it do you?
Then see my last post.

[Skull-1]

You don't get it do you?
Then see my last post.
Squawk. Squawk.

If it is your last post then shut up already.

[xmas1997]

Squawk. Squawk.

If it is your last post then shut up already.

Like I said, see my last post, not my next post, you idiot.

[Skull-1]

Like I said, see my last post, not my next post, you idiot.


Last means final, moron. Learn English. Now be a man of your word and put us all out of your misery by shutting your yapper.

[xmas1997]

Last means final, moron. Learn English. Now be a man of your word and put us all out of your misery by shutting your yapper.

What an ignorant fool you are.
I told you to go see my last post because it said all I needed to say to you.
What language do you speak, Swahili?
Not once did I use the word "final" or "next" or any other such word.
No. I told you to go see my last post. Are you totally dense, besides being ignorant?

[Skull-1]

What an ignorant fool you are.
I told you to go see my last post because it said all I needed to say to you.
What language do you speak, Swahili?


Last means final. The word your feeble brain is seeking would be previous or prior. But then again, nothing you write would qualify as a post on any forum for grown ups. Maybe Pre-K....

[xmas1997]

Last means final. The word your feeble brain is seeking would be previous or prior. But then again, nothing you write would qualify as a post on any forum for grown ups. Maybe Pre-K....


What an idiot you truly are.
No, stupid, "last" means the last post I made, past tense, lame brain.
I never once said final. That was your word.
I can't help it if you do not understand simple English.
Apparently making it more simple for you makes it way TOO complicated for you.
That is your problem, not mine.

[Skull-1]

What an idiot you truly are.
No, stupid, "last" means the last post I made, past tense, lame brain.
I never once said final. That was your word.
I can't help it if you do not understand simple English.
Apparently making it more simple for you makes it way TOO complicated for you.
That is your problem, not mine.


Last means final. You keep telling us to see your last post. Then you post again. Obviously it isn't your last. Dbag. Do us all a favor and leave. Go to your nambla site or wherever it is you spend your free time.

[xmas1997]

Last means final. You keep telling us to see your last post. Then you post again. Obviously it isn't your last. Dbag. Do us all a favor and leave. Go to your nambla site or wherever it is you spend your free time.


See my last, not final, post, moron! Now do you understand?
If not, it's your problem, not mine.

[Skull-1]

See my last, not final, post, moron! Now do you understand?
If not, it's your problem, not mine.


Moron? Looking in the mirror again? You shouldn't post while driving.

[xmas1997]

Moron? Looking in the mirror again? You shouldn't post while driving.


See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.


None of your posts have any content. They are of no help.

[xmas1997]

None of your posts have any content. They are of no help.

See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.


Whichever one that is, it has nothing of substance. No point in it.

[xmas1997]

Whichever one that is, it has nothing of substance. No point in it.

See my last post. You might learn something if you go back and do that.
Not my fault if you don't.

[Skull-1]

See my last post. You might learn something if you go back and do that.
Not my fault if you don't.


None of them have anything to "get". TE and I have been trying to explain that to you, but it is like arguing with a post. Pun.

[xmas1997]

None of them have anything to "get". TE and I have been trying to explain that to you, but it is like arguing with a post. Pun.


See my last post, trolls.

[Skull-1]

It's see my most "recent" post, tbh...

[xmas1997]

:troll

[Skull-1]

:troll


Awwww, look at Xmas in his little purple troll outfit... :rollin

[xmas1997]

Awwww, look at Xmas in his little purple troll outfit... :rollin

See my last post.

[Skull-1]

See my last post.


You mean the one with you in the purple troll outfit?


lol lol lol

[xmas1997]

You mean the one with you in the purple troll outfit?


lol lol lol


No, see my last post, the one I took the time and effort to explain things to you.
If you are too dense and ignorant to understand that, it's your fault, not mine.

[Skull-1]

No, see my last post, the one I took the time and effort to explain things to you.
If you are too dense and ignorant to understand that, it's your fault, not mine.


You have explained nothing. You don't have the brainpower.

[xmas1997]

You have explained nothing. You don't have the brainpower.


This time see my prior post.

[Skull-1]

This time see my prior post.

You're learning, parrot.

[xmas1997]

You're learning, parrot.

Now go back and see my last post.

[anakha]

Go fuck each other already and spare this forum your incessant e-flirting.

[Skull-1]

Go fuck each other already and spare this forum your incessant e-flirting.


Stuff yourself up your own rear end, palsy.

[SpurAddict561]

He has had some amazing passes throughout his career

now he's just passed his prime

see what I did there

[Skull-1]

He has had some amazing passes throughout his career

now he's just passed his prime

see what I did there


:rollin

[xmas1997]

Go fuck each other already and spare this forum your incessant e-flirting.


Stuff yourself up your own rear end, palsy.

See what I mean, anakha?

This troll skull hassles and antagonizes almost every person here on this site if they merely happen to disagree with him.
It wouldn't be so bad if he was just ignorant, but the problem is he doesn't even know he is ignorant.
And thus he can't understand constructive criticism or debate an issue without resorting to derogatory remarks.
He is most definitely the worst troll on ST and proves it over and over again with his idiotic posts and baseless accusations.
And if he responds to this post then it proves what I just wrote.

[Skull-1]

See what I mean, anakha?

This troll skull hassles and antagonizes almost every person here on this site if they merely happen to disagree with him.
It wouldn't be so bad if he was just ignorant, but the problem is he doesn't even know he is ignorant.
And thus he can't understand constructive criticism or debate an issue without resorting to derogatory remarks.
He is most definitely the worst troll on ST and proves it over and over again with his idiotic posts and baseless accusations.
And if he responds to this post then it proves what I just wrote.


Let me get this straight. You can insult, impugn, malign, and falsely accuse me and if I call you on it *I* am the problem?


STFU, DBAG. You aren't even worthy of the manure on my shoe. Seriously.

[xmas1997]

Need I say more?
I rest my case.:lol

[anakha]

And the mutual obsession continues.

[xmas1997]

And the mutual obsession continues.

Sorry, anakha, I'll stop.

[xmas1997]

You know, it's hilarious how even though I've criticized Pop, Manu, Green, TP, TD, Neal, Bonner, Blair, Kawhi, Tiago, Diaw, Nando, etc. at one time or another after the season ended, I still get these idiotic troll scumbags saying I am a Manu or Pop lover, when the truth is that they all made mistakes at one time or another, and all just because I refused to fall in with their party line and accept their narrow minded redundant ignorant BS that it was all Manus or Pops fault that we lost the championship.
That my dear fellow Spur fans is the true example of hypocritical nonsense!
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't!

[Skull-1]

Sorry, anakha, I'll stop.



Guess not....

[xmas1997]

Isn't it odd how they keep quoting me?
Practically everyone has laughed at them and yet they are too stupid to see it.
Stupid is as stupid does.

[Skull-1]

Sorry, anakha, I'll stop.


The world waits.

[xmas1997]

And the funniest part of all is they probably think I give a shit.:lol
I'm glad I stopped quoting those imbeciles.
And the only reason we haven't had to suffer reading more of their insanities is because they are in some dark dingy alley sucking each other off, which is one of the few things those two like to do more than pester me! :lol