Michael Moore

[smeagol]

Yesterday I watched F. 9/11 for the first time.

I'm no Michael Moore fan. In fact, I find him quite repugnant, but . . .

There were some things in the movie that caught my eye:

1) The fact that most of the time it’s low and middle class individuals the ones who go overseas to fight a war. Funny how only one out of (how many Congressman are there?) . . . lets say many, has one of its kids in Iraq (or was it enlisted in the Army?). Funny also how they ran away when Moore ask them if they could enlist their kids.

2) How the speech about Iraq changed in the course of one year. There was footage of Rumsfeld and Rice, publicly speaking about Iraq in 2000, saying that Saddam did not pose a threat and that he did not have WMDs.

3) Bush's dealings with the Bin Laden family and how they sneaked them out of the country after 9/11.

4) War is humanity's ultimate fuck up. How can people glorify war is beyond my understanding. Seeing those images of dead women and children, the wounded, fuck, it’s so heart breaking.

[Spurminator]

1) The fact that most of the time it’s low and middle class individuals the ones who go overseas to fight a war. Funny how only one out of (how many Congressman are there?) . . . lets say many, has one of its kids in Iraq (or was it enlisted in the Army?). Funny also how they ran away when Moore ask them if they could enlist their kids.

Well, for one thing, you can't enlist your kid. So the premise was laughable to begin with.

Second, a military made up of low-to-middle class individuals is a function of having voluntary service based on rewards/benefits. The only way to ensure equal "class" representation in the military is to reinstate the Draft. Would you prefer that?

F911 was a nice tool for political discussion, but I would encourage you to read some of the rebuttals before taking it as scripture...

[Trainwreck2100]

That congressman enlisting their kids was just stupid. As for low to middle class only being in the armed services. Rich people don't need money.

[CaptainHook]

Read this: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yesterday I watched F. 9/11 for the first time.

I'm no Michael Moore fan. In fact, I find him quite repugnant, but . . .

There were some things in the movie that caught my eye:

1) The fact that most of the time it’s low and middle class individuals the ones who go overseas to fight a war. Funny how only one out of (how many Congressman are there?) . . . lets say many, has one of its kids in Iraq (or was it enlisted in the Army?). Funny also how they ran away when Moore ask them if they could enlist their kids.




This is exactly what t he young, conservative, and chickenhawk thread was all about....i'll find a link for it, its pretty funny. Those young ass chickenhawks are so adamant in their anti-liberal and pro-bush agendas, yet most of them have no idea what its like to have a family member in that war, its like playing a game to them. sickening.


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20358&highlight=young+conservative

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Oh yeah, and michael moore is full of crap in a sense because he only shows you surface facts....the information like the administration changing its view of iraq in less than a year, the bush family being in league with bin laden family, etc

all of this information can be found in seconds to the common person

But theres stuff deeper than he lets you to believe...what he shows you isnt the whole story

www.infowars.com

[The Ressurrected One]

Jeeze, CBF! Jones is a certified kook...

[SWC Bonfire]

You can find sources that are a lot more informative and less biased than Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh. I would take anything that Fahrenheit 9/11 has in it with a grain of salt.

Incedentally, I wonder how many people acutally understand the title of that movie... Fahrenheit 451 was a novel by Ray Bradbury depicting a future society bankrupt of any redeeming virtues and marked by the control of information. 451 degrees F was supposed to be the temperature at which printed materials would begin to burn.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Alex Jones is my god. Much like Bush is yours. You chose bush. I chose jones.

[Vashner]

Yesterday I watched F. 9/11 for the first time.

I'm no Michael Moore fan. In fact, I find him quite repugnant, but . . .

There were some things in the movie that caught my eye:

1) The fact that most of the time it’s low and middle class individuals the ones who go overseas to fight a war. Funny how only one out of (how many Congressman are there?) . . . lets say many, has one of its kids in Iraq (or was it enlisted in the Army?). Funny also how they ran away when Moore ask them if they could enlist their kids.
It's all volunteer. You need a GED or diploma.. I.E. you should be able to fucking read where it says you will fight and follow orders of the commander & chief and you fucking sign you name. If you don't want to fight DON'T VOLUNTEER FOR THE MILITARY. Fuck Michael Moore as far as our military. This is not 1968 this 2005 and we have professional soldiers.

2) How the speech about Iraq changed in the course of one year. There was footage of Rumsfeld and Rice, publicly speaking about Iraq in 2000, saying that Saddam did not pose a threat and that he did not have WMDs.
Yes we went from Containment to attack mode after 9/11. You ever hear of 9/11? Containment was his fathers and Clintons policy. GW decided not to fucking risk Saddams shit. If people had a problem with Iraq they didn't show it in the election where Bush handed Kerry his ASS ON A PLATE. You guys lost so stfu and let us win the war instead of trying to turn it into Vietname failure.

3) Bush's dealings with the Bin Laden family and how they sneaked them out of the country after 9/11.
What was he supposed to do put them in Jail? The FBI handled security on there flight out. One of Osama's cousin is in hollywood right now you don't hear hollywood pussies crying about her working there do you?

4) War is humanity's ultimate fuck up. How can people glorify war is beyond my understanding. Seeing those images of dead women and children, the wounded, fuck, it’s so heart breaking.
War is like fire on earth.. it's been around a long time. We waiting to get into WWII because of No wanting to go to "war" and it cost us and 7 million Jews, 40 million Russians a LOT of lifes. Just look at D-day.. If we didn't sit on our ass we could of went in LONG before France fell. God knows how many lifes you save. What do you want to do hide under a rock? We go to war for freedom. It's been that way for a long time and it's not going away.

[mookie2001]

We go to war for freedom.[/B]
no
THIS WAR
we went to
disarm Saddam,
no
liberate Iraq
no
set up a foothold of democracy in the middle east
no
fight terror
there...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yeah first iraq was a member of the axis of evil...we had to disarm them and secure our freedom

then all of a sudden we're there to HELP iraqis and muslims who lived under the tyrrany of hussein....

i dont even know what their current reasoning for the war is

but once they serve it out so many people are quick to slurp it up

[xrayzebra]

This is exactly what t he young, conservative, and chickenhawk thread was all about....i'll find a link for it, its pretty funny. Those young ass chickenhawks are so adamant in their anti-liberal and pro-bush agendas, yet most of them have no idea what its like to have a family member in that war, its like playing a game to them. sickening.


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20358&highlight=young+conservative

No you are sickening! The liberal bias you have shown is what it is all
about. We are in a war, we have been attacked and you want to sit up
and shout agendas. What stupidity! We lost more people in 9/11 than
in Pearl Harbor and still have people want to kill YOU and you want to
blame everyone but them......damn....and I wonder how you live with
yourself.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

No you are sickening! The liberal bias you have shown is what it is all
about. We are in a war, we have been attacked and you want to sit up
and shout agendas. What stupidity! We lost more people in 9/11 than
in Pearl Harbor and still have people want to kill YOU and you want to
blame everyone but them......damn....and I wonder how you live with
yourself.


we've been attacked by iraq? i thought it was al qaeda...i thought they were working out of afghanistan...

no they don't want to kill me and youre sickeningly stupid for believing that

they dont grow up being anti american

those people in iraq and in the middle east are people
people like you and i

they arent fucking retards, they're not genetically inferior, they're not animals
theyre people

and they did not grow up being brainwashed to hate us, but when they see a country interfering in their countries affairs

occupying their cities
raping their women
plundering their valuables

then they probably would retaliate with violence towards those who fucked with them

those terrorists did not bomb the trade center towers to hurt the common american man....what kind of sense would that have made? plus most workers there even got information telling them not to go to work that day, this is documented

they have their own agendas and their own enemies higher up the ladder...


Futhermore you're proving me right that youre just a stupid chickenhawk, because the second someone points out your pro-gayness pro-bush pro-conservative ways, you automatically assume i'm liberal

you see life in black and white, theres no inbetween or blurred boundaries to you..to you everything is safely tucked into well defined boundaries..

[xrayzebra]

we've been attacked by iraq? i thought it was al qaeda...i thought they were working out of afghanistan...

no they don't want to kill me and youre sickeningly stupid for believing that

they dont grow up being anti american

those people in iraq and in the middle east are people
people like you and i

they arent fucking retards, they're not genetically inferior, they're not animals
theyre people

and they did not grow up being brainwashed to hate us, but when they see a country interfering in their countries affairs

occupying their cities
raping their women
plundering their valuables

then they probably would retaliate with violence towards those who fucked with them

those terrorists did not bomb the trade center towers to hurt the common american man....what kind of sense would that have made? plus most workers there even got information telling them not to go to work that day, this is documented

they have their own agendas and their own enemies higher up the ladder...

You prove me point! With your reply. You have no idea of what is going
on in this world.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yeah ok

"i prove you point"

retard

[mookie2001]

sit up and shout agendas????
usually you have a good reason for going to war
not change them midwar over and over when you fall on your face to help yourself politically

[xrayzebra]

sit up and shout agendas????
usually you have a good reason for going to war
not change them midwar over and over when you fall on your face to help yourself politically

What in the world are you talking about? 3000 people are not reason enough? Get a life. God help you if you talk this way in their world.

I am an American, I have served my Country and will continue to do so
and I am damn tired of people who have no idea what this country is about
putting it down. I will not let you go unchallenged. Enjoy what we have,
and hope and pray we will always have it. But God help us if you have you
way, because people like me will have no say......

[mookie2001]

iraq didnt fucking attack us fuckface!

[mookie2001]

just because youre a vet doesnt mean you have to blindly support any bullshit war
i want the troops to come home
not keep dying for their president

[xrayzebra]

just because youre a vet doesnt mean you have to blindly support any bullshit war
i want the troops to come home
not keep dying for their president

Which President are you talking about? You have a lot of sex on your mind
don't you. I support any President who we have in this country, like I
support our country. Do you do the same or do you support those who
would destroy our country? Just wondering.

[thispego]

ehh...

[mookie2001]

i could not support bush less
that has nothing to do with being on the terrorist side

[word]

poontang

End of discussion

[word]

well then I guess we're doomed.

[word]

iraq didnt fucking attack us fuckface!

Actually, they did in April of 1995 but that was swept under the rug.

[midgetonadonkey]

No you are sickening! The liberal bias you have shown is what it is all
about. We are in a war, we have been attacked and you want to sit up
and shout agendas. What stupidity! We lost more people in 9/11 than
in Pearl Harbor and still have people want to kill YOU and you want to
blame everyone but them......damn....and I wonder how you live with
yourself.

One fucking attack in how many years? That does not make our occupation of Iraq justified. Bush went into Iraq because his father couldn't win the fucking war. This is a god damn grudge war, nothing more. And please don't compare this war to WWII. In WWII we fought an evil person in Hitler. Somebody had to stop the genocidal bastard from killing off the Jews. Saddam gased a few Kurds, so fucking what. He wasn't putting them all in camps and trying to kill off the whole race.

[word]

One fucking attack in how many years? That does not make our occupation of Iraq justified. Bush went into Iraq because his father couldn't win the fucking war. This is a god damn grudge war, nothing more. And please don't compare this war to WWII. In WWII we fought an evil person in Hitler. Somebody had to stop the genocidal bastard from killing off the Jews. Saddam gased a few Kurds, so fucking what. He wasn't putting them all in camps and trying to kill off the whole race.

Ignorant -vs- Ignorant

No winners here.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Why do the Democrats/Liberals think that Americans are whores




They keep giving us JOHNS


i.e Kerry, Dean

[Nbadan]

secularism vs. religion

RELIGION ALWAYS WINS......ALWAYS

Tell that to the Taliban. I think one of the main problems with the U.S. approach to the war on terrorism is that instead of treating it as we should - as an infection, we are treating it as is a plague in the Middle East thanks in large part to our kill them or they will kill us mentality. Are there prople who want to attack the U.S. and other Western Targets? Sure they are, but they aren't half the organized threat that Russia used to be or that China could become in the near future. When you put this war into proper historical prospective its not so scary after all.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Tell that to the Taliban. I think one of the main problems with the U.S. approach to the war on terrorism is that instead of treating it as we should - as an infection, we are treating it as is a plague in the Middle East thanks in large part to our kill them or they will kill us mentality. Are there prople who want to attack the U.S. and other Western Targets? Sure they are, but they aren't half the organized threat that Russia used to be or that China could become in the near future. When you put this war into proper historical prospective its not so scary after all.

Dan I'm going to agree with you as far as historical prospective, however
what do you suggest be done about Religious fanatics, except kill them or
put them in GITMO/ de-program them. The World and civilized society
frowns on this.

i.e. if I put you in a basement, kept your tied up, and tried to change your beliefs, Religious, Political, whatever I'm sure the local SAPD and Sheriffs
Department would from upon it although some of the posters here would give me a metal.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Actually, they did in April of 1995 but that was swept under the rug.


i believe its pretty obvious he's talking about the past few years, not a decade ago. thats a diff episode in us history than we're talking about.

I can't wait till we invade Iran too, and listen to the bull shit reasons the administration gives out. How many more credible reasons can there be?

Even those dumbasses who buy yellow 'support our troops' stickers for their cars will start to tire of the now classic "we're invading them to set them free, to find the terrorists, i mean to find wmd's"

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yesterday I watched F. 9/11 for the first time.

I'm no Michael Moore fan. In fact, I find him quite repugnant, but . . .

There were some things in the movie that caught my eye:

1) The fact that most of the time it’s low and middle class individuals the ones who go overseas to fight a war. Funny how only one out of (how many Congressman are there?) . . . lets say many, has one of its kids in Iraq (or was it enlisted in the Army?). Funny also how they ran away when Moore ask them if they could enlist their kids.
It's all volunteer. You need a GED or diploma.. I.E. you should be able to fucking read where it says you will fight and follow orders of the commander & chief and you fucking sign you name. If you don't want to fight DON'T VOLUNTEER FOR THE MILITARY. Fuck Michael Moore as far as our military. This is not 1968 this 2005 and we have professional soldiers.

2) How the speech about Iraq changed in the course of one year. There was footage of Rumsfeld and Rice, publicly speaking about Iraq in 2000, saying that Saddam did not pose a threat and that he did not have WMDs.
Yes we went from Containment to attack mode after 9/11. You ever hear of 9/11? Containment was his fathers and Clintons policy. GW decided not to fucking risk Saddams shit. If people had a problem with Iraq they didn't show it in the election where Bush handed Kerry his ASS ON A PLATE. You guys lost so stfu and let us win the war instead of trying to turn it into Vietname failure.

3) Bush's dealings with the Bin Laden family and how they sneaked them out of the country after 9/11.
What was he supposed to do put them in Jail? The FBI handled security on there flight out. One of Osama's cousin is in hollywood right now you don't hear hollywood pussies crying about her working there do you?

4) War is humanity's ultimate fuck up. How can people glorify war is beyond my understanding. Seeing those images of dead women and children, the wounded, fuck, it’s so heart breaking.

War is like fire on earth.. it's been around a long time. We waiting to get into WWII because of No wanting to go to "war" and it cost us and 7 million Jews, 40 million Russians a LOT of lifes. Just look at D-day.. If we didn't sit on our ass we could of went in LONG before France fell. God knows how many lifes you save. What do you want to do hide under a rock? We go to war for freedom. It's been that way for a long time and it's not going away.
LOL, How fucking clueless can you be??? "just shut up and let us win the war"??? You just don't fucking get it do you? First of all, YOU are not winning anything, YOU are sitting on your ass typing while others are fighting FOR YOU! If you're so dead set in winning this war, GO FUCKING ENLIST!! Second, Bush won becaues by the election time he had SCARED THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of most voters into believing that if they cut back on the war, they'll be nuked for certain! That whole "you can't change commanders in the middle of a war" crap made me sick! Bush is basing his whole presidency on people being scared out of their witts! and finally, THIS WAR HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FREEDOM!

[Nbadan]

maybe, but i bet you most muslims in afghanistan still practice islam in a pretty strict manor.....you see this type of religion(just like christianity in 4th century europe)is just below the surface of secularism, waiting patiently, sometimes for hundreds of years and then they make a full force assualt on the way of life of the people who don't subcribe to their version of religion.

nbadan read "when jesus became god" and apply our time to that time and you well see the parallels.....islam wants to be the state religion of the world......just like christians wanted many years ago.

Can someone tell me why, if Christianity is the one true religion, why are so many Christians threathened by Islam? Christians and Muslims had lived peacefully with each other for years in a secular Iraq under Hussein (until the U.S. invaded). That's the dirty little secret about secularism that the administration isn't talking about.

Now, everyone and everything in Iraq with any power is called Islamic this and Islamic that. For an enlightening article on this and other topics may I suggest you read Juan Cole's latest article in Salon. The Iraq War is Over and The Winner is.......................Iran. (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/07/21/iran/index.html)

[JoePublic]

I thought it was an entertaining movie and that's all.

[smeagol]

It's all volunteer. You need a GED or diploma.. I.E. you should be able to fucking read where it says you will fight and follow orders of the commander & chief and you fucking sign you name. If you don't want to fight DON'T VOLUNTEER FOR THE MILITARY. Fuck Michael Moore as far as our military. This is not 1968 this 2005 and we have professional soldiers.
Is there a point anywhere in this stupid dribble of yours.

My point is that it's ironical that the people who facilitated W to declare war on Iraq don't send their kids to fight (the war they helped create), while the poor people in America are the ones dying in Iraq.



Yes we went from Containment to attack mode after 9/11. You ever hear of 9/11? Containment was his fathers and Clintons policy. GW decided not to fucking risk Saddams shit. If people had a problem with Iraq they didn't show it in the election where Bush handed Kerry his ASS ON A PLATE. You guys lost so stfu and let us win the war instead of trying to turn it into Vietname failure.
Did you ever notice thast there is no links between 9/11 and Iraq. The guy who is the real cause of what happened in 9/11 is laughing his ass in a cave in Afghanistan.

I'll let you in a little secret. The flag beside my spur means I'm not from around these parts. I don't vote. I did not lose or win anything in the last elections.



What was he supposed to do put them in Jail? The FBI handled security on there flight out. One of Osama's cousin is in hollywood right now you don't hear hollywood pussies crying about her working there do you?
All I'm saying is that its highly suspicious that Bush deals with the Bin Laden family. But you are too stupid to question your own government. Got it.



War is like fire on earth.. it's been around a long time. We waiting to get into WWII because of No wanting to go to "war" and it cost us and 7 million Jews, 40 million Russians a LOT of lifes. Just look at D-day.. If we didn't sit on our ass we could of went in LONG before France fell. God knows how many lifes you save. What do you want to do hide under a rock? We go to war for freedom. It's been that way for a long time and it's not going away.
Sure, the US only goes to war for freedom's sake. Seriously, go tell that to anybody outside this country and they will laugh thier asses off until tears come out of their eyes.

[Clandestino]

Sure, the US only goes to war for freedom's sake. Seriously, go tell that to anybody outside this country and they will laugh thier asses off until tears come out of their eyes.

but who gives a fuck! haha :lmao

[smeagol]

but who gives a fuck! haha :lmao
That's precisely the problem. Many idiots like you don't give a fuck about the rest of the World.

Sad.

[TheTruth]

Michael Moore is a big fat idiot who likes to make up facts to suppost his views.

[Clandestino]

That's precisely the problem. Many idiots like you don't give a fuck about the rest of the World.

Sad.

no, it is not that i don't truly give a fuck, but that i would never let the feelings/actions/wants of another country dictate what is best for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA