Michael Jordan says he’d beat LeBron James in one-on-one

[Double-Up]

By CHRIS CHASE (http://ftw.usatoday.com/author/cchase/) – October 1, 2013 at 10:13am EDT
In his prime, Michael Jordan thinks he would have defeated LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/2013/news/10/01/jordan-in-prime.ap/index.html) and other NBA legends in a game of one-on-one. But there’s one matchup Jordan wasn’t sure about.
Jordan was interviewed by Ahmad Rashad for an upcoming promo video for NBA 2K14. He said he’d like to have played games against Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Julius Erving, Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade, among others, and was confident in his ability to defeat all comers.
“I don’t think I would lose,” Jordan said, “other than to Kobe Bryant because he steals all of my moves.”
The clip hasn’t yet been fully released, so it’s impossible to say whether Jordan dropped the mic and stared at the camera for seven seconds after delivering that line.
You want to know why MJ’s the greatest? Because he can lower the boom on two future of Hall of Famers in the course of a single sentence. I’m better than LeBron and Kobe is derivative, he’s saying. That’s trash-talking gold.
http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/USATSI_7029682.jpg
(Steve Mitchell, USA TODAY Sports)Of course, Jordan said it with his wry smile that gave the impression he was joking and belies the fact he almost certainly wasn’t. Nor should he be. His explosiveness to the basket, late-career fadeaway and disruptive defense would give him an advantage over everyone. LeBron could overpower him, but MJ is MJ. He’d get all the calls.
Earlier in the clip, Jordan waffled when asked to pick the better player, Kobe or LeBron. “Kevin Durant,” he said with his trademark grin.
When he got serious, Jordan praised both players — Kobe for his championships and determination, LeBron for his skills.

[AchillesHeel]

Lebron for his skills? I think it's safe to say that Kirby is the more skilled player, but Lebron is just better because he has the full package. Sure, his skillset is not the greatest, but he's basically a PG in a 6'8 260 athletic freak body, what makes him so dangerous is his size and his passing ability, you can make him shoot jumpers, but you won't stop him from making great passes to his wide open teammates, something that Kirby lacks.

Point is, MJ = GOAT, Kirby = top 25, Lebron, top 10 and still has at least 4-5 elite years remaining.

[Leetonidas]

lol @ Kobe stealing all of his moves. Jordan was the GOAT but he sucks cock when it comes to talent evaluation (lol kwame brown)

[lefty]

Both MJ and Lebron shit on Kobeta Male anyway

[Technique]

I'd take Melo over a lot of players in a 1 on 1. His size alone makes him a trouble in the post, plus he can take you off the dribble or shoot the j. Can't defend him 1on1.

[AchillesHeel]

I'd take Melo over a lot of players in a 1 on 1. His size alone makes him a trouble in the post, plus he can take you off the dribble or shoot the j. Can't defend him 1on1.

How about Melo stopping the opposing player 1 on 1? Make it Winner's out and Melo never sees the ball.

[Buddy Mignon]

No one owns a move. Kareem didn't invent the sky hook... he just perfected it. Magic didn't invent tbe no look pass... he just perfected it. Jordan didn't invent the fade away... he just perfected it. Duncan didn't invent the cuckhold... he just perfected. Must I enlighten you fags on everything.

[Leetonidas]

Kobe didn't event clanking jumpers in the clutch, he just perfected it.

[Clipper Nation]

No one owns a move. Kareem didn't invent the sky hook... he just perfected it. Magic didn't invent tbe no look pass... he just perfected it. Jordan didn't invent the fade away... he just perfected it. Duncan didn't invent the cuckhold... he just perfected. Must I enlighten you fags on everything.
You didn't invent Naruto faggotry.... you just perfected it :lol

[Buddy Mignon]

Kobe didn't event clanking jumpers in the clutch, he just perfected it.

Duncan invented missing layups in the clutch. .. so he owns it.

[Clipper Nation]

Duncan invented missing layups in the clutch. .. so he owns it.
& you own The Naruto :lol

[Buddy Mignon]

& you own The Naruto :lol

The Clippers didn't invent losing... but they sure have perfected.

[OKC]

I'd agree. Strictly in terms of one-on-one play, I think MJ would definitely have an advantage over LBJ.

[Buddy Mignon]

There are about a dozen guys in the league today that would own James head up. He's not a playground legend.

[benefactor]

Kobe didn't event clanking jumpers in the clutch, he just perfected it.

You didn't invent Naruto faggotry.... you just perfected it :lol
:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol who the fuck cares about 1on1 games, tbh?..

Dad Killer's insecurity towards Lebron is cute, tbh..

[AchillesHeel]

:lol who the fuck cares about 1on1 games, tbh?..

Dad Killer's insecurity towards Lebron is cute, tbh..


Well, MJ was the better defender and offensively MJ's post game murders Bron's, it's not far fetched to say MJ would win the match up. Bron has the size advantage, but people underrate how tough and athletic Michael was.

[Clipper Nation]

There are about a dozen guys in the league today that would own James head up. He's not a playground legend.
He must not have grown up in the 8 Mile section of Konoha :lol

[-21-]

MJ dropping truth bombs.

[resistanze]

His old, gambleholic ass never shuts up.

[racm]

LeBron and Magic aren't 1 on 1 type talents IMO. they flourish as team leaders, tbh.

[RsxPiimp]

Jordan just have Kobe the ultimate compliment, damn. I don't think I've ever heard, read about Jordan admitting the possibility of beating him one on one.:toast

[LkrFan]

No one owns a move. Kareem didn't invent the sky hook... he just perfected it. Magic didn't invent tbe no look pass... he just perfected it. Jordan didn't invent the fade away... he just perfected it. Duncan didn't invent the cuckhold... he just perfected. Must I enlighten you fags on everything.
:rollin :lmao :rollin

[irishock]

Prime Kobe defensively would just force MJ to shoot 3-pointers and clank. MJ would have to respect Kobe's superior outside shooting though

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe would beat MJ because he had better range....MJ was marginally better defensively but look at it like this..if Bruce Bowen was no match for Kobe's range MJ would have gotten murdered...Kobe wins 1 on 1 with MJ that's why MJ admitted that Kobe would likely beat him...
'
here's an example of Kobe's range..something MJ never had:

zvh9kEwekY8

3NgoMC2TUgw

[HarlemHeat37]

Prime Kobe defensively would just force MJ to shoot 3-pointers and clank. MJ would have to respect Kobe's superior outside shooting though

:lol when has prime Kobe ever defended a notable player, tbh?..

The Lakers of the early 2000s never went against top perimeter players, tbh..the post-Shaq Lakers got killed all the time against perimeter players during the regular season..

The 2008 Finals Lakers got killed by Paul Pierce when Kobe didn't have the balls to defend him, allowing scrubs like Radmanovic to take the assignment..

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol when has prime Kobe ever defended a notable player, tbh?..

The Lakers of the early 2000s never went against top perimeter players, tbh..the post-Shaq Lakers got killed all the time against perimeter players during the regular season..

The 2008 Finals Lakers got killed by Paul Pierce when Kobe didn't have the balls to defend him, allowing scrubs like Radmanovic to take the assignment..

why does Lebron shy away from guarding top players but always trying to run up on PG's..your nigga is bitch made in all honesty...Pacers lost cuz Paul George don't know what he has...he's grows up and he'll take Lebron's manhood right before your eyes

[HarlemHeat37]

why does Lebron shy away from guarding top players but always trying to run up on PG's..your nigga is bitch made in all honesty...Pacers lost cuz Paul George don't know what he has...he's grows up and he'll take Lebron's manhood right before your eyes

:lol the only star players that Lebron hasn't guarded exclusively in the past few playoffs are Dirk and Durant, tbh..

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol the only star players that Lebron hasn't guarded exclusively in the past few playoffs are Dirk and Durant, tbh..

that's my fucking point...nigga runs from people he knows will give it to his ass...he wants to run up on little PG's..he's a coward

[Rogue]

Kobe would beat MJ because he had better range....MJ was marginally better defensively but look at it like this..if Bruce Bowen was no match for Kobe's range MJ would have gotten murdered...Kobe wins 1 on 1 with MJ that's why MJ admitted that Kobe would likely beat him...
'
here's an example of Kobe's range..something MJ never had:



MJ was an average 3pt shooter but that wasn't that significant a weaklink in the 90s imho. n!ggars could be top players without much shooting range and there weren't that many teams who relied on 3pt shooting.

[Rogue]

why does Lebron shy away from guarding top players but always trying to run up on PG's..your nigga is bitch made in all honesty...Pacers lost cuz Paul George don't know what he has...he's grows up and he'll take Lebron's manhood right before your eyes
Bron runs away from no one imho. mah nigga just picks the primary scorer of the opposing team, regardless of positions. He turned up on the PG named Tony Parker because no one else on his team had the speed and quickness to guard the french racing car

[TDMVPDPOY]

to bad mj couldnt beat gangsters in a game of rocks

[ambchang]

Kobe would beat MJ because he had better range....MJ was marginally better defensively but look at it like this..if Bruce Bowen was no match for Kobe's range MJ would have gotten murdered...Kobe wins 1 on 1 with MJ that's why MJ admitted that Kobe would likely beat him...
'
here's an example of Kobe's range..something MJ never had:

zvh9kEwekY8

3NgoMC2TUgw

Jordan career 3p% 0.327. Career high season (excludes shortened 3p line seasons) 0.372.

Kobe - .336 /.383.

Hell lot of difference right there.

Kobe 3p% vs Bowen, including playoffs - 0.278 :lol. Btw, bowens is >40%

[ALVAREZ6]

If Melo could defend, he'd be my number one. He's big, mobile, and jumper is so deadly that he can get over anyone.


Of course, MJ keeps bringing back 1v1 as if everyone will suddenly forget it's a 5v5 game, and for 5v5 it's really tough to beat LeBron out in all around skills and impact ability on a game, considering scoring, passing, defense, and all around versatility. It'll be hard to argue otherwise when he's retired.

[TDMVPDPOY]

MJ still bitter cause he knows lebron has a chance of being the GOAT

[elmanutres]

The Clippers didn't invent losing... but they sure have perfected.
:lol getting hammered by clipperfan

[LkrFan]

:lol who the fuck cares about 1on1 games, tbh?..

Dad Killer's insecurity towards Lebron is cute, tbh..
The Spurs fan tbh:

8T4ZUK-NFKc

Bottom line, if Tammy was a better one on one player, he'd have 5 rings instead of being The Butt! of our 5>4 jokes.

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[TDMVPDPOY]

jordans all defensive team selections is overrated as hell

who did he play against at his position that was even worthy being mention?

lol the jordan stoppers were all a fkn bunch of joke players who never made any all defensive teams, and jordan defends these guys night in night out for a weak era of SG

[Killakobe81]

Jordan career 3p% 0.327. Career high season (excludes shortened 3p line seasons) 0.372.

Kobe - .336 /.383.

Hell lot of difference right there.

Kobe 3p% vs Bowen, including playoffs - 0.278 :lol. Btw, bowens is >40%

That is a silly stat. Kobes range is great or it used to be. Hos shot selection is what sucks. MJ forced some shots. Too but not fade away 3s over multiple defenders.

[Killakobe81]

MJ still bitter cause he knows lebron has a chance of being the GOAT

Agreed, I think it does bug him. But also pretty clear he respects Kobe more possibly cuz Kobe idolized him and patterned his game after him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont know why there is a double standards what lebron needs to accomplish to surpass jordan, let alone kobe...imo his already pass kobe

people knock on him cause of his imperfect finals record, whose to say if jordan didnt retire he would win continuous in the finals and not have a finals defeat?
then they knock on his shitty finals against the mavs, wasnt that wades team?
wankers who say lebron needs to win 5 let alone 7 in row to be the goat, come back to me when someone or anyone has won 7 in a row let alone 4 rings in a row, we only interested in facts, not what ifs aka jordan scenario if he didnt retire..

lebron is a different beasts than the rejects jordan played against at his position, hence jordan never defend the other teams best SG which was pippens job...

[Killakobe81]

I still think Lebron has a chance to surpass MJ said it all last season as well as the previous one ... But for those shitting on MJ to prop Lebron I just dont get it. It is true MJ did benefit from playing a part of his career in a watered down era ... but to imply that MJ could not of won in ANY era or with Spo, or with Wade instead of Pippen is comedy. When Kobe fanbois tried to shit on the 90's ...plenty on here would have no part of it. But because Spur fan likes James it's allowed now?! Horseshit.

Magic played in a uptempo era with Kareem and Worthy.
Bird played in that same era with Mchale, Parish and DJ .
Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq.
Lebron joined WAde and brought Bosh.
MJ had Pippen.

None of that diminishes how great any of those guys are. Lebron even with a few shitty Finals games still has a chance at GOAT. Even Mj had a few (very few) Finals clunkers and Magic, Kareem, Bird, Kobe and Lebron have had worse. In the end the eye test, stats, even the shitty awards and of course rings will determine their ultimate legacy. And for me Mj's superior marketing won't matter to me either. But for now it's still MJ>Magic>Kobe>Lebron>Bird. But I think Lebron will pass Kobe and has an outside shot at Mj. And yes it is debatable he may have surpassed Kobe. I still say, No but I can see the argument and it's a strong case.

[Killakobe81]

And before bird fans chime in ... yes i think kobe edges Bird though is behind Magic and yes I think Lebron is the GOAT SF ...
No one had any issues placing Duncan even at 3 rings as the GOAT PF ... why cant Lebron with two rings be the GOAT SF?
I would get someone placing Bird with 3 over Lebron at 2 if they were close but I dont think it is. For the record, if Magic was at 3 I would lower my al time favorite player down a few notches too ...

[ambchang]

That is a silly stat. Kobes range is great or it used to be. Hos shot selection is what sucks. MJ forced some shots. Too but not fade away 3s over multiple defenders.

Hearsay. How do we know Kobe had better range? Based on video? Did you see that Jordan and Bird game of horse? They shot from the rafters? Then even outside of the stadium! So let's use that as evidence that Jordan got better range.

And was Kobe's shot selection so bad that he shot from so much further out in 3 point range? And what does that have to do with the game of 1-on-1? Do they get 4-pointers?

Finally, will Kobe suddenly start having good shot selection? I doubt it.


Agreed, I think it does bug him. But also pretty clear he respects Kobe more possibly cuz Kobe idolized him and patterned his game after him.

Kobe respects Jordan because idolized the GoAT and patterned his game after him, but the reverse is not true because Jordan is the leader, and Kobe is the follower. I am not sure respect is the word to describe the way Jordan feels towards Kobe, it's more like protection, more like how Jordan looks out for Kobe like a little brother or a follower.

[ambchang]

And before bird fans chime in ... yes i think kobe edges Bird though is behind Magic and yes I think Lebron is the GOAT SF ...
No one had any issues placing Duncan even at 3 rings as the GOAT PF ... why cant Lebron with two rings be the GOAT SF?
I would get someone placing Bird with 3 over Lebron at 2 if they were close but I dont think it is. For the record, if Magic was at 3 I would lower my al time favorite player down a few notches too ...

You are out of your mind! Magic = Bird. You are looking through this in as piss-and-gay glasses as a person could be. It's almost like you are drowning in piss and gay to say Kobe > Bird.

Did Bird ever play 2nd banana? No.
Was Bird a better passer? Yes.
Was Kobe a better defender? Sure, when he was a 2nd banana, but when he was a 1b banana to MVPau? Kobe's defense was horrendous.
Did Bird understand the game better? Yes
Did Bird see the floor better? Yes
Did Bird win 3 straight MVPs? Yes. Did Kobe? Well .. he was a 1/3 of the way there after getting a life-time achievement award.
Did Bird act like a socialpath and undermines the confidence of his teammates? Actually yes, just that Bird didn't do it publicly?
Did Bird ran the greatest coach of all time out? No
Did Bird ran the most dominant player of all time out? No

Between Magic, Bird and Kobe, the ranking goes.

Career wise:
Magic slightly > Bird >> Kobe.

Prime:
Bird > Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

[Koolaid_Man]

And before bird fans chime in ... yes i think kobe edges Bird though is behind Magic and yes I think Lebron is the GOAT SF ...
No one had any issues placing Duncan even at 3 rings as the GOAT PF ... why cant Lebron with two rings be the GOAT SF?
I would get someone placing Bird with 3 over Lebron at 2 if they were close but I dont think it is. For the record, if Magic was at 3 I would lower my al time favorite player down a few notches too ...

Bird is better than Lebron period...you can idolize Lebron's size but it doesn't change the fact he was not better than Bird except one facet of the game and that's driving the lane...outside of that give me a prime Bird over a prime Lebron any day and every day - tbh Bird was tough Lebron is not

[Koolaid_Man]

I still think Lebron has a chance to surpass MJ said it all last season as well as the previous one ... But for those shitting on MJ to prop Lebron I just dont get it. It is true MJ did benefit from playing a part of his career in a watered down era ... but to imply that MJ could not of won in ANY era or with Spo, or with Wade instead of Pippen is comedy. When Kobe fanbois tried to shit on the 90's ...plenty on here would have no part of it. But because Spur fan likes James it's allowed now?! Horseshit.

Magic played in a uptempo era with Kareem and Worthy.
Bird played in that same era with Mchale, Parish and DJ .
Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq.
Lebron joined WAde and brought Bosh.
MJ had Pippen.

None of that diminishes how great any of those guys are. Lebron even with a few shitty Finals games still has a chance at GOAT. Even Mj had a few (very few) Finals clunkers and Magic, Kareem, Bird, Kobe and Lebron have had worse. In the end the eye test, stats, even the shitty awards and of course rings will determine their ultimate legacy. And for me Mj's superior marketing won't matter to me either. But for now it's still MJ>Magic>Kobe>Lebron>Bird. But I think Lebron will pass Kobe and has an outside shot at Mj. And yes it is debatable he may have surpassed Kobe. I still say, No but I can see the argument and it's a strong case.

Fans are entitled to their opinions fair enough...but as long a the all time greats and the current generation of players all choose Kobe over Lebron I think the case is closed...the fans and the media vs All time greats and Current Rookies..I'd rather have my peers think I'm the 2nd GOAT vs what Spur fan and the media think tbh....MJ's, Kareem, Bird, Hakeem, Dr J and all the current players and rookie classes opinions matter more to me than what any fan could possibly think...

[Killakobe81]

Hearsay. How do we know Kobe had better range? Based on video? Did you see that Jordan and Bird game of horse? They shot from the rafters? Then even outside of the stadium! So let's use that as evidence that Jordan got better range.

And was Kobe's shot selection so bad that he shot from so much further out in 3 point range? And what does that have to do with the game of 1-on-1? Do they get 4-pointers?

Finally, will Kobe suddenly start having good shot selection? I doubt it.



Kobe respects Jordan because idolized the GoAT and patterned his game after him, but the reverse is not true because Jordan is the leader, and Kobe is the follower. I am not sure respect is the word to describe the way Jordan feels towards Kobe, it's more like protection, more like how Jordan looks out for Kobe like a little brother or a follower.

Amb, how I miss our little chats. How you been?
Hmm. You bring in stats in a 1 on 1 game? Scenario? Have you watched Kobe play regularly?! Are you saying that Kobe does not take Long 3's? Or heavily contested shots? I am giving you all this honest valid and quite relevant critiques of Kobe's game, and you are arguing against it because of ...why exactly?
The reason why range is a factor if you ever played a great deal of 1 on 1 posting a player or beating him to the hoop and defending 1 on 1 without help expends a great deal of energy. Having "range" helps because it is the shot that requires the least amount of energy (but ironically tired legs often kills jumpers). That is why Durant would be great 1 on 1 because he actually has the best range of the 4 (5 if you include Melo) and his height makes his jumper unblockable. Lebron's Jumper can be blocked because his release point and form (he hangs with not a great fade) Mj predicted that last season and Kobe did it in the ASG.

As a side note when I played hoops regular and played 1 on 1 I shot jumpers early (legs fresh) drove in the middle part of the game and posted up as I was tired. It does expend energy (posting up) but those are the best % shots with tired legs.

I know this is all hypothetical but I think despite being a great competitor Kobe's ego would probably hurt him in a 1 on 1 against those guys. MJ my guess if his jumper was not working would change his game more. Kobe never believes his jumper wlll not fall eventually ...it's a gift and a curse which again is why his FG% is sho shitty. His ego has him take (And make) more bad shots than anyone else. It does help to be able to make those shots in 1 on 1, but despite being the most skilled 1 on 1 player I think his shot selection would do him in in say a 1 on 1 tournament with al these players being so good one bad shooting spell would equala loss for Bryant.

[Killakobe81]

You are out of your mind! Magic = Bird. You are looking through this in as piss-and-gay glasses as a person could be. It's almost like you are drowning in piss and gay to say Kobe > Bird.

Did Bird ever play 2nd banana? No.
Was Bird a better passer? Yes.
Was Kobe a better defender? Sure, when he was a 2nd banana, but when he was a 1b banana to MVPau? Kobe's defense was horrendous.
Did Bird understand the game better? Yes
Did Bird see the floor better? Yes
Did Bird win 3 straight MVPs? Yes. Did Kobe? Well .. he was a 1/3 of the way there after getting a life-time achievement award.
Did Bird act like a socialpath and undermines the confidence of his teammates? Actually yes, just that Bird didn't do it publicly?
Did Bird ran the greatest coach of all time out? No
Did Bird ran the most dominant player of all time out? No

Between Magic, Bird and Kobe, the ranking goes.

Career wise:
Magic slightly > Bird >> Kobe.

Prime:
Bird > Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

A couple of factors.
Bird himself said Kobe was greater.
It's just my opinion. I saw Bird he is great and I am not saying it isnt close.
Bird did not play 17 years. Like HAkeem vs. Duncan Bird's peak is greater than Kobe's career is greater just like Duncan's is greater than the Dream's
Kobe has been a 1st team or 2nd team ALL NBA player for almost as long as Bird's career.
5 rings are greater than 3.
MVP awards are overrated.
Finals MVp's are more legit yet Bird has only 1 more than Kobe.
I dont have an issue with Bird's prime being better than Kobe's or Magic's heck some could even argue it's greater than Lebron's but even Lebron's career is eclipsing Bird's based on lonevity and his is what only 29? TO argue Kobe has a greater career is not crazy as you make it sound. I was NEVEr arguing peaks in that case HAkeem>Shaq>Duncan ...cant have it BOTH ways, Amb.

[Killakobe81]

Bird is better than Lebron period...you can idolize Lebron's size but it doesn't change the fact he was not better than Bird except one facet of the game and that's driving the lane...outside of that give me a prime Bird over a prime Lebron any day and every day - tbh Bird was tough Lebron is not

Bird was mentally tougher I agree. But come on JAmes is amazing. Personally he is not my favorite player but I respect his game. I just dont get why so many childish posters feel the need to shit on someone else to prop up their favorite player. Amb is as guilty as Harlem or Kool in this manner, tbh. Harlem will throw Kobe the occasional bone and it usually it makes sense and is honest even if it is normally a backhanded compliment.

Amb feels the need to over exaggerate even propping Pau to kill Bryant. Kool wont admit how great Lebron is even as he puts up advanced stats like CP3 pre-injury or a prime David Robinson, he wins (on pace) like Magic or Kobe (final losses and all) and Harlem has gone so far up Lebron's ass he is now a Heat fan ...

We have some great players in the NBA right now. I love a great debate and debating legacies is fun. But if your favorite player is as great as YOU think he is no need to shit on some other player unless you feel threatened. Lebron defenders shit on MJ as "salty" or insecure he sound like 85% of the NBA forum anytime Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, MJ Hakeem or Karl Malone are mentioned tbh ...

And I love how Amb loves to pull stats out of his ass when in the end it wont matter. Like I said a while back someone can pull out a stat that says based on some criteria Lebron>MJ. But for some people it wont matter. They prefer MJ. These kind of arguments cant be won with stats just like it cant be won with rings alone. Just as Peyton is putting up some crazy numbers but for some he will never be Elway or Montana.

[Phillip]

MJ is without question a more skilled one on one player than Lebron, although I think its pretty much impossible to stop him from driving once he gets a head of steam if you have to guard him with no help. It's hard to say who would win that, because even though MJ has more skills and Lebron would be a one trick pony, its an unstoppable trick, much like Shaq. He didn't have a ton of moves, but once he backed you deep in the paint, put his body on you and spun, there was no stopping him in any one on one situation. Lebron is the same with his drive. I don't know if MJ could handle his big body, power, and finishing ability.

But truth is, Lebron's one on one ability isnt what makes him great. Its his all around ability. He may not be the very best in any one aspect of the game, but he is still elite in virtually every aspect of the game.

[Killakobe81]

MJ is without question a more skilled one on one player than Lebron, although I think its pretty much impossible to stop him from driving once he gets a head of steam if you have to guard him with no help. It's hard to say who would win that, because even though MJ has more skills and Lebron would be a one trick pony, its an unstoppable trick, much like Shaq. He didn't have a ton of moves, but once he backed you deep in the paint, put his body on you and spun, there was no stopping him in any one on one situation. Lebron is the same with his drive. I don't know if MJ could handle his big body, power, and finishing ability.

But truth is, Lebron's one on one ability isnt what makes him great. Its his all around ability. He may not be the very best in any one aspect of the game, but he is still elite in virtually every aspect of the game.

I agree. And if that one trick was against Durant I think it works. Against stronger guys like Melo or MJ I think it would be tougher. And getting that head of steam is different in 1 on 1 vs. 5 on 5 unless there were no fouls called. Again Phillip is right 1 on 1 really takes away from what makes a Bird, Magic or Lebron so great.

[Koolaid_Man]

Bird was mentally tougher I agree. But come on JAmes is amazing. I dont get why so many childish poster feel the need to shit on someone else to prop up their favorite player. Amb is as guilty as Harlem or Kool in this manner. But even Harlem will throw Kobe the Kobe the occasional bone and it makes sense and is honest. Amb feels the need to over exaggerate even propping Pau to kill Bryant. Kool wont admit how great Lebron is even as he puts up stats like CP3 pre-injury, wins like Magic or Kobe (final losses and all) and Harlem has gone so far up Lebron's ass he is now a Heat fan ...

We have some great players in the NBA right now. I love a great debate but if your favorite player is as great as YOU think he is no need to shit on some other player unless you feel threatened. Lebron defenders shit on MJ as "salty" or insecure he sound like 85% of the NBA forum anytime Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, MJ Hakeem or Karl Malone are mentioned tbh ...

you're off base...Lebron is not a great player in my view because he has no real prime competition...Paul George is not prime competition to me...

Kobe faced a bunch of real niggas when he came up...people made millions just defend Kobe...Bruce Bowen was brought in by the Spurs for the sole reason of defending Kobe...do you think it's a surprise all the NBA greats would prefer a prime Kobe over Lebron...you're only mesmerized by the hype but you're too blinded to see it..Lebron has done NOTHING in this league that has impressed me..on or off the court...on the court his game is just a basic power game and hard slam for a break-away dunk...he brings nothing that we haven't seen...should I post for you the links of today's players who prefer Kobe over Lebron...how in the fuck are you the player of your generation when today's players view Kobe as the greatest..that's a shame tbh :lol....Larry Johnson dunked just as hard as Lebron does....Lebron cannot do the things with the ball that MJ and Kobe did...therefore I'm simply not impressed...it's like Dennis Rodman said: "He would be just another average player if he played in our era" that's the hard cold truth...you may not like it but it is what it is...dude faces no elite defenders...there are no more AI's or TMAC's, or Prime Nash, or Duncan or Kobe's...this dude is playing in an era and skating by....he fucking choked off game 6 two KEY turnovers in the finals minute and Ray Allen bailed his ass out...dude would have only 1 ring from a locked out season if he wasn't bailed out at the last minute in game 6...real players are not impressed with Lebron..you're still cheering for up based on a hype machine...he's a decent player but he's no where fucking near Kobe or MJ's level and all the true players know it...when he had a chance to go at a player of his generation (D-Wade) he decided to join him instead of going at him that was the ultimate pussy ass move and cemented his cowardness in my view..I'm not against him playing with great players but that's like Magic or Bird deciding they want to play together...it was real bush league and it shows he really has NO heart...I cannot be moved on this subject...you're disrespecting the game by trying to compare this kid to MJ and Kobe...MJ has already spoken and all you people can say now is that MJ is jealous :lol what a fucking joke :lol

[RsxPiimp]

Jordan career 3p% 0.327. Career high season (excludes shortened 3p line seasons) 0.372.

Kobe - .336 /.383.

Hell lot of difference right there.

Kobe 3p% vs Bowen, including playoffs - 0.278 :lol. Btw, bowens is >40%
If you know math then That percentage is a lot of difference considering Kobe took a lot more 3 Ptrs on his career:lol

[Killakobe81]

you're off base...Lebron is not a great player in my view because he has no real prime competition...Paul George is not prime competition to me...

Kobe faced a bunch of real niggas when he came up...people made millions just defend Kobe...Bruce Bowen was brought in by the Spurs for the sole reason of defending Kobe...do you think it's a surprise all the NBA greats would prefer a prime Kobe over Lebron...you're only mesmerized by the hype but you're too blinded to see it..Lebron has done NOTHING in this league that has impressed me..on or off the court...on the court his game is just a basic power game and hard slam for a break-away dunk...he brings nothing that we haven't seen...should I post for you the links of today's players who prefer Kobe over Lebron...how in the fuck are you the player of your generation when today's players view Kobe as the greatest..that's a shame tbh :lol....Larry Johnson dunked just as hard as Lebron does....Lebron cannot do the things with the ball that MJ and Kobe did...therefore I'm simply not impressed...it's like Dennis Rodman said: "He would be just another average player if he played in our era" that's the hard cold truth...you may not like it but it is what it is...dude faces no elite defenders...there are no more AI's or TMAC's, or Prime Nash, or Duncan or Kobe's...this dude is playing in an era and skating by....he fucking choked off game 6 two KEY turnovers in the finals minute and Ray Allen bailed his ass out...dude would have only 1 ring from a locked out season if he wasn't bailed out at the last minute in game 6...real players are not impressed with Lebron..you're still cheering for up based on a hype machine...he's a decent player but he's no where fucking near Kobe or MJ's level and all the true players know it...when he had a chance to go at a player of his generation (D-Wade) he decided to join him instead of going at him that was the ultimate pussy ass move and cemented his cowardness in my view..I'm not against him playing with great players but that's like Magic or Bird deciding they want to play together...it was real bush league and it shows he really has NO heart...I cannot be moved on this subject...you're disrespecting the game by trying to compare this kid to MJ and Kobe...MJ has already spoken and all you people can say now is that MJ is jealous :lol what a fucking joke :lol

You make some great points and Maybe without Ray, Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA the greatest REGULAR SEASON player of his era ...
But he did win. And he was the best player on 3 straight Finals teams.
Unlike you I have to be fair. IF Horry doesn't bail us out ... Kobe has 4 and Shaq only has 3. Again it works both ways.
Just like Amb you are trying to detract from Lebron for a bail out 3 pointer but then Horry hit one that saved us vs. Sacramento.

I dont do qualifiers. if you are the best or even 2nd best player on a title team it's legit. Even Pippen's 6 are legit he is ust not as great a player as Kobe, Lebron, Shaq MJ or Duncan.

[Phillip]

If you know math then That percentage is a lot of difference considering Kobe took a lot more 3 Ptrs on his career:lol
are you retarded?

[RsxPiimp]

you're off base...Lebron is not a great player in my view because he has no real prime competition...Paul George is not prime competition to me...

Kobe faced a bunch of real niggas when he came up...people made millions just defend Kobe...Bruce Bowen was brought in by the Spurs for the sole reason of defending Kobe...do you think it's a surprise all the NBA greats would prefer a prime Kobe over Lebron...you're only mesmerized by the hype but you're too blinded to see it..Lebron has done NOTHING in this league that has impressed me..on or off the court...on the court his game is just a basic power game and hard slam for a break-away dunk...he brings nothing that we haven't seen...should I post for you the links of today's players who prefer Kobe over Lebron...how in the fuck are you the player of your generation when today's players view Kobe as the greatest..that's a shame tbh :lol....Larry Johnson dunked just as hard as Lebron does....Lebron cannot do the things with the ball that MJ and Kobe did...therefore I'm simply not impressed...it's like Dennis Rodman said: "He would be just another average player if he played in our era" that's the hard cold truth...you may not like it but it is what it is...dude faces no elite defenders...there are no more AI's or TMAC's, or Prime Nash, or Duncan or Kobe's...this dude is playing in an era and skating by....he fucking choked off game 6 two KEY turnovers in the finals minute and Ray Allen bailed his ass out...dude would have only 1 ring from a locked out season if he wasn't bailed out at the last minute in game 6...real players are not impressed with Lebron..you're still cheering for up based on a hype machine...he's a decent player but he's no where fucking near Kobe or MJ's level and all the true players know it...when he had a chance to go at a player of his generation (D-Wade) he decided to join him instead of going at him that was the ultimate pussy ass move and cemented his cowardness in my view..I'm not against him playing with great players but that's like Magic or Bird deciding they want to play together...it was real bush league and it shows he really has NO heart...I cannot be moved on this subject...you're disrespecting the game by trying to compare this kid to MJ and Kobe...MJ has already spoken and all you people can say now is that MJ is jealous :lol what a fucking joke :lol
Theres so much truth in this post.

Lebron was a regular season warrior. I keep asking his Stans this question but they all ignore it. How is it that lebrons numbers across the board dips in the playoffs (ppg rpg apg fg% ts% and per) when the opposite can be said to greater players like Kobe,mj :lol

[RsxPiimp]

are you retarded?

You dumb fuck don't even know math, foh:lol

[Phillip]

You make some great points and Maybe without Ray Lebron is like Peyton the greatest REGULAR SEASON player of his era ...
But he did win. And he was the best player on 3 straight Finals teams.


This. He won. You could perhaps say the same about a couple of MJ's titles. If Paxson/Kerr didn't hit some game winners during their playoff/finals runs, who knows what could have happened? I know MJ knobslobbers/Lebron haters will say "well they still would have had another game to play", well... that is exactly the point. All a team needs is one more opportunity to steal victory, just as Miami did this year. The season seemed all but done, and if Leonard hit that FT, the Spurs would have been champs. But he didnt, and Miami took advantage of it, won game 6, and then won game 7. The same could have happened to the Bulls, if Paxson and Kerr missed those game winners, and the series went to a 7th game. MJ may have one or two less titles as a result.

And Ray's shot means NOTHING if it weren't for Lebron going nuts and rallying the team back singlehandedly from a 10+ point deficit in the 4th. And if Wade wasn't such a useless pile of crap in that game, they probably would have won comfortably in regulation, but instead, as soon as he came back into the game after Lebron generated the run, Wade started trying to play hero ball and took shots away from Lebron, the chemistry was ruined and San Antonio made a run that almost ended the series for Miami.

[Phillip]

Theres so much truth in this post.

Lebron was a regular season warrior. I keep asking his Stans this question but they all ignore it. How is it that lebrons numbers across the board dips in the playoffs (ppg rpg apg fg% ts% and per) when the opposite can be said to greater players like Kobe,mj :lol

You really are retarded. These fallacies that you claim to be factual stats, are a load of crap. We have already done this once before.

[Killakobe81]

This. He won. You could perhaps say the same about a couple of MJ's titles. If Paxson/Kerr didn't hit some game winners during their playoff/finals runs, who knows what could have happened? I know MJ knobslobbers/Lebron haters will say "well they still would have had another game to play", well... that is exactly the point. All a team needs is one more opportunity to steal victory, just as Miami did this year. The season seemed all but done, and if Leonard hit that FT, the Spurs would have been champs. But he didnt, and Miami took advantage of it, won game 6, and then won game 7. The same could have happened to the Bulls, if Paxson and Kerr missed those game winners, and the series went to a 7th game. MJ may have one or two less titles as a result.

And Ray's shot means NOTHING if it weren't for Lebron going nuts and rallying the team back singlehandedly from a 10+ point deficit in the 4th. And if Wade wasn't such a useless pile of crap in that game, they probably would have won comfortably in regulation, but instead, as soon as he came back into the game after Lebron generated the run, Wade started trying to play hero ball and took shots away from Lebron, the chemistry was ruined and San Antonio made a run that almost ended the series for Miami.

Great point Kerr and Paxson COULD be a the difference between 6 and GOAT status and Magic, Kareem or or even Lebron as GOAT.
I dont love Lebron I have one pair of his "kicks" I just admire a great talent realizing is potential. i f he had not would of been the crime of the century. Despite some mental flaws he is so gifted.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you're off base...Lebron is not a great player in my view because he has no real prime competition...Paul George is not prime competition to me...

Kobe faced a bunch of real niggas when he came up...people made millions just defend Kobe...Bruce Bowen was brought in by the Spurs for the sole reason of defending Kobe...do you think it's a surprise all the NBA greats would prefer a prime Kobe over Lebron...you're only mesmerized by the hype but you're too blinded to see it..Lebron has done NOTHING in this league that has impressed me..on or off the court...on the court his game is just a basic power game and hard slam for a break-away dunk...he brings nothing that we haven't seen...should I post for you the links of today's players who prefer Kobe over Lebron...how in the fuck are you the player of your generation when today's players view Kobe as the greatest..that's a shame tbh :lol....Larry Johnson dunked just as hard as Lebron does....Lebron cannot do the things with the ball that MJ and Kobe did...therefore I'm simply not impressed...it's like Dennis Rodman said: "He would be just another average player if he played in our era" that's the hard cold truth...you may not like it but it is what it is...dude faces no elite defenders...there are no more AI's or TMAC's, or Prime Nash, or Duncan or Kobe's...this dude is playing in an era and skating by....he fucking choked off game 6 two KEY turnovers in the finals minute and Ray Allen bailed his ass out...dude would have only 1 ring from a locked out season if he wasn't bailed out at the last minute in game 6...real players are not impressed with Lebron..you're still cheering for up based on a hype machine...he's a decent player but he's no where fucking near Kobe or MJ's level and all the true players know it...when he had a chance to go at a player of his generation (D-Wade) he decided to join him instead of going at him that was the ultimate pussy ass move and cemented his cowardness in my view..I'm not against him playing with great players but that's like Magic or Bird deciding they want to play together...it was real bush league and it shows he really has NO heart...I cannot be moved on this subject...you're disrespecting the game by trying to compare this kid to MJ and Kobe...MJ has already spoken and all you people can say now is that MJ is jealous :lol what a fucking joke :lol

if 2pts is 2pts, why does it matter how he scores them? u have no problem kobes range and bad shot selection chucking, but u have a problem how lebron scores his?

kobe played against bullshit at his position in the playoffs and finals, u know it man, dont bring in RS h2h matches, that shit is bullshit cause nothing is on the line compared to a elimination series

[Clipper Nation]

Theres so much truth in this post.

Lebron was a regular season warrior. I keep asking his Stans this question but they all ignore it. How is it that lebrons numbers across the board dips in the playoffs (ppg rpg apg fg% ts% and per) when the opposite can be said to greater players like Kobe,mj :lol
How is it that LeBron can win a ring while leading his team in points, assists, and steals, but Kirby needs to be an omega male riding on the coattails of generational bigs to win any rings at all? :lol

[Killakobe81]

if 2pts is 2pts, why does it matter how he scores them? u have no problem kobes range and bad shot selection chucking, but u have a problem how lebron scores his?

kobe played against bullshit at his position in the playoffs and finals, u know it man, dont bring in RS h2h matches, that shit is bullshit cause nothing is on the line compared to a elimination series

I think Lebron is smart for driving to the hole ...he should do it more, tbh.

[RsxPiimp]

You really are retarded. These fallacies that you claim to be factual stats, are a load of crap. We have already done this once before.
Yeah and you lost so many times tbh, you're a certified dumbass to even bring it up:lol

You want me to pull it from the archive, for your embarrassment?

:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think Lebron is smart for driving to the hole ...he should do it more, tbh.

prime or not, he is containable....it has been shown by 07 series and the mavs series....weakminded,

i dont know the difference between him and jordan when it comes to ref calls, one is a fkn begger, the other is like automatic foul freebie

[Koolaid_Man]

You make some great points and Maybe without Ray, Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA the greatest REGULAR SEASON player of his era ...
But he did win. And he was the best player on 3 straight Finals teams.
Unlike you I have to be fair. IF Horry doesn't bail us out ... Kobe has 4 and Shaq only has 3. Again it works both ways.
Just like Amb you are trying to detract from Lebron for a bail out 3 pointer but then Horry hit one that saved us vs. Sacramento.

I dont do qualifiers. if you are the best or even 2nd best player on a title team it's legit. Even Pippen's 6 are legit he is ust not as great a player as Kobe, Lebron, Shaq MJ or Duncan.

ok then feel free to take away the Ray Allen 3 pointer...dude still choked off that game with HIS...HIS turnovers...that's not detracting...no shame in saying a choke artist is a choke artist...he's the best player on his team I'm not arguing it..I'm arguing him being the best player on his team in this watered down era...and people trying to erroneously use stats to justify his greatness...in my view you're only as good as the defender in front of you...who does Bron face? it's easy to hit jumpers and stroll down the lane when there's no price to pay...:lol you mentioned earlier that MJ played in a watered down era and it's true he didn't start winning until Magic, Bird, and Zeke got old but fact is MJ went through the toughest defenses the NBA has ever seen tbh...He went through a prime D-Rodman and the Bad Boy Pistons and then through that hellacious NY Knick defense which in my view was the toughest defense of all time on wing players...and Kobe to a lesser degree had to deal with (although not prime at this point) Rodman and Pippen's defense...Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Bruce Bowen, and a slew of other defensive specilaists....not to mention who Kobe had to face on the offensive side of the ball...Lebron just doesn't face the same Dynamic...so if you're comparing MJ, Kobe and Bron you need to look at the defenses each faced and also the offensive weapons they had to defend...Lebron barely beat a 38 yr old Duncan with Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen....this dude would have gotten eaten alive in the Western conference if you came up when Kobe came up... I respect your basketball views but you're clearly looking at this thing with rose colored glasses on...




PS: tbh from a Media's perspective there's no shame in an old ass Timmy losing to a prime Bron...but had that been Kobe we're talking Crucifixion...and yet they'd have us still believe that Timmy is better than Kobe...:lol but the standard is different...

[TDMVPDPOY]

the games the heat won in the finals against the spurs, rewatch those fkn game and you can tell it was fkn fix by the refs

refs never allowed the spurs to get on a run or close the gap to closer than 6pts and they will blow some random call to stop the spurs momentum...

it wouldve been a sweep imo if refs just allowed them to play

[Phillip]

Yeah and you lost so many times tbh, you're a certified dumbass to even bring it up:lol

You want me to pull it from the archive, for your embarrassment?

:lol

Please do. I'm anxious to see what you are talking about.

[RsxPiimp]

This. He won. You could perhaps say the same about a couple of MJ's titles. If Paxson/Kerr didn't hit some game winners during their playoff/finals runs, who knows what could have happened? I know MJ knobslobbers/Lebron haters will say "well they still would have had another game to play", well... that is exactly the point. All a team needs is one more opportunity to steal victory, just as Miami did this year. The season seemed all but done, and if Leonard hit that FT, the Spurs would have been champs. But he didnt, and Miami took advantage of it, won game 6, and then won game 7. The same could have happened to the Bulls, if Paxson and Kerr missed those game winners, and the series went to a 7th game. MJ may have one or two less titles as a result.

.
Ok, im convinced you're either really stupid or just a good ol fanboi.

I already taught you history and I remember you not having any rebuttal but here we go again, ill dish it once more since you seem to have little understanding about the series when you're probably 3 yrs old at the time :lol

You CANNOT, EVER, EVER compare kerr and paxson's shots against ray allen's game 6 hailmary. EVER.


the bulls were up 3-1 at one point against phoenix in 93, and 3-2 against the jazz. the bulls were never in danger of losing the series, they also have HCA which practically guarantees them a win even if they lost games 6 hypothetically, but that's beside the point. lebran stans always like to play this role playing game when it comes to LeBron using arguments like "if kerr and pxson missed the shots, you never know" I mean really, if you have to resort to that "what if" argument, then you already lost. :lol


have you seen Jordan's NBA finals stats from games 1-5 in both series? yeah its quite good.

now, have you seen LeBron's stats in 2013 frm games 1-5? yeah, he shot under 40% not once, but twice :lol laughable.

point is, allen's impact with that hailmary shot is undeniably bigger and larger than both of kerr and paxson's simply because the Spurs already have that game 6 wrapped up after Lebron missed a 3 pts with 10 seconds to go. Allen gave LeBron a second chance to recollect his shitty nba finals self by making that unbelievable shot. You can't say the same for Kerr and Paxson's

Kerr's shot was made with the game tied at 86, missing it would only mean the bulls will take care of business in OT. again, two very different scenarios.
ill help you out with visual aids since you're too unstable to realize it.:lol


http://youtu.be/paJWuS0VykY


http://youtu.be/S2BlOTeoZVE

[RsxPiimp]

prime or not, he is containable....it has been shown by 07 series and the mavs series....weakminded,

i dont know the difference between him and jordan when it comes to ref calls, one is a fkn begger, the other is like automatic foul freebie

Lebron James 2013 NBA Finals


Game 1
18 Points 43% Shooting- Spurs Win

Game 2

17 pts 41% Shooting Spurs Loss


Game 3

15 pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 4

33 Pts 60% Shooting Spurs Loss

Game 5

25 Pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 6

32 Pts 42% Shooting- Spurs shoulda won :lol


Right then and there, since Lebron Stans like playing What if. Lebron's legacy would've been 1 win 4 Finals trips, with the GOAT shooting a historic high 42% from the field :lol

[ambchang]

Amb, how I miss our little chats. How you been?

Things are OK, same old.


Hmm. You bring in stats in a 1 on 1 game? Scenario? Have you watched Kobe play regularly?! Are you saying that Kobe does not take Long 3's? Or heavily contested shots? I am giving you all this honest valid and quite relevant critiques of Kobe's game, and you are arguing against it because of ...why exactly?

Every game Kobe played in had a large sample of one of one in there, and yes, I have seen him extensively, given that the Lakers have been one of the primary opponents of the Spurs in the last decade +. Kobe takes long 3s, and he does take heavily contested shots, which will be shots that he will STILL take in a one on one game. I am arguing because your primary argument that his shot selection is the problem with his similar 3p% as Jordan is not a valid argument, as his shot selection will STILL suck in a game of 1-1.


The reason why range is a factor if you ever played a great deal of 1 on 1 posting a player or beating him to the hoop and defending 1 on 1 without help expends a great deal of energy. Having "range" helps because it is the shot that requires the least amount of energy (but ironically tired legs often kills jumpers). That is why Durant would be great 1 on 1 because he actually has the best range of the 4 (5 if you include Melo) and his height makes his jumper unblockable. Lebron's Jumper can be blocked because his release point and form (he hangs with not a great fade) Mj predicted that last season and Kobe did it in the ASG.

As a side note when I played hoops regular and played 1 on 1 I shot jumpers early (legs fresh) drove in the middle part of the game and posted up as I was tired. It does expend energy (posting up) but those are the best % shots with tired legs.

I know this is all hypothetical but I think despite being a great competitor Kobe's ego would probably hurt him in a 1 on 1 against those guys. MJ my guess if his jumper was not working would change his game more. Kobe never believes his jumper wlll not fall eventually ...it's a gift and a curse which again is why his FG% is sho shitty. His ego has him take (And make) more bad shots than anyone else. It does help to be able to make those shots in 1 on 1, but despite being the most skilled 1 on 1 player I think his shot selection would do him in in say a 1 on 1 tournament with al these players being so good one bad shooting spell would equala loss for Bryant.

See above. Kobe's range is not necessarily better than Jordan, I saw no evidence of it. He took, and therefore made, more long range shots because of his poor shot selection, not because he was better at it.

[ambchang]

A couple of factors.
Bird himself said Kobe was greater.

I thought he said Lebron > Kobe, but that he would want to WIN with Kobe because the way Kobe worked. Larry Bird straightout said Lebron was the better player. I am not exactly sure where he said Kobe > Bird.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7551496/larry-bird-love-play-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant



It's just my opinion. I saw Bird he is great and I am not saying it isnt close.
Bird did not play 17 years. Like HAkeem vs. Duncan Bird's peak is greater than Kobe's career is greater just like Duncan's is greater than the Dream's

Totally different comparison. Bird's peak was way better than Kobe's, and Bird's longevity at his peak wasn't that much shorter than Kobe's. Bird peaked for about 5 years, same as Kobe. Just that sports "medicine" has improved so much to prolong Kobe's career.

As noted in the other thread of Duncan vs. Hakeem, once you factor in pace, Duncan and Hakeem's peak was pretty much the same. People look at raw numbers and assumed Hakeem was better, but Duncan was about the same in terms of offensive responsibilities. While I admit that, at his peak, Hakeem was the better defensive player, Duncan was much more versatile in terms of building a team around.


Kobe has been a 1st team or 2nd team ALL NBA player for almost as long as Bird's career. Sports medicine, competition, voter bias, etc ..

5 rings are greater than 3. Team accomplishments. Different competition. 2nd banana vs. alpha.

MVP awards are overrated. Why? Why aren't 1st and 2nd team All NBA players overrated?

Finals MVp's are more legit yet Bird has only 1 more than Kobe. In 3 less finals appearances (which are team accomplishments btw).

I dont have an issue with Bird's prime being better than Kobe's or Magic's heck some could even argue it's greater than Lebron's but even Lebron's career is eclipsing Bird's based on lonevity and his is what only 29? TO argue Kobe has a greater career is not crazy as you make it sound. I was NEVEr arguing peaks in that case HAkeem>Shaq>Duncan ...cant have it BOTH ways, Amb. As mentioned, Hakeem's peak really isn't > Duncan, they are more equal than people acknowledge. Same as Shaq. People are obsessed over raw numbers, but like I said, 1 pound <> 1 US Dolalr <> 1 Cambodian Riel <> 1 Japanese Yen.

[ambchang]

If you know math then That percentage is a lot of difference considering Kobe took a lot more 3 Ptrs on his career:lol

Some guy shot 100 shots and made 30 of them, he shot 30%. Some guy shot 1000 shots and made 300 of the, he shot 30%.

If you know your math, you can tell that 30% = 30%. There is no difference.

[ambchang]

You make some great points and Maybe without Ray, Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA the greatest REGULAR SEASON player of his era ...
But he did win. And he was the best player on 3 straight Finals teams.
Unlike you I have to be fair. IF Horry doesn't bail us out ... Kobe has 4 and Shaq only has 3. Again it works both ways.
Just like Amb you are trying to detract from Lebron for a bail out 3 pointer but then Horry hit one that saved us vs. Sacramento.

I dont do qualifiers. if you are the best or even 2nd best player on a title team it's legit. Even Pippen's 6 are legit he is ust not as great a player as Kobe, Lebron, Shaq MJ or Duncan.

WTF is this bullshit? Now that you finally acknowledge Kobe was a beta, you are saying that his beta status was better than Pippen's beta status?

Give me a break KK, just stop, please. You are making rules out of your ass now.

[ambchang]

are you retarded?

I think he is, because ....



Theres so much truth in this post.

Lebron was a regular season warrior. I keep asking his Stans this question but they all ignore it. How is it that lebrons numbers across the board dips in the playoffs (ppg rpg apg fg% ts% and per) when the opposite can be said to greater players like Kobe,mj :lol

Kobe's ppg, rpg, apg, fg%, ts% and PER (better numbers bolded):
RS -25.5/5.3/4.8/.454/.555/23.4
PO - 25.6/5.1/4.7/.448/.541/22.4

Lebron:
RS - 27.6/7.3/6.9/.49/.575/27.6
PO - 28.1/8.6/6.7/.472/.567/27.3

In case you are wondering, Lebron's "crappy" playoff numbers > Kobe's "stellar" playoff numbers.

[ambchang]

Lebron James 2013 NBA Finals


Game 1
18 Points 43% Shooting- Spurs Win

Game 2

17 pts 41% Shooting Spurs Loss


Game 3

15 pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 4

33 Pts 60% Shooting Spurs Loss

Game 5

25 Pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 6

32 Pts 42% Shooting- Spurs shoulda won :lol


Right then and there, since Lebron Stans like playing What if. Lebron's legacy would've been 1 win 4 Finals trips, with the GOAT shooting a historic high 42% from the field :lol

For the mathematically challenged, 33% > 6/24, or 25%. Unless, of course, 25% is actually > 33% because Kobe shot more :lol

[Killakobe81]

O
I thought he said Lebron > Kobe, but that he would want to WIN with Kobe because the way Kobe worked. Larry Bird straightout said Lebron was the better player. I am not exactly sure where he said Kobe > Bird.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7551496/larry-bird-love-play-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant




Totally different comparison. Bird's peak was way better than Kobe's, and Bird's longevity at his peak wasn't that much shorter than Kobe's. Bird peaked for about 5 years, same as Kobe. Just that sports "medicine" has improved so much to prolong Kobe's career.

As noted in the other thread of Duncan vs. Hakeem, once you factor in pace, Duncan and Hakeem's peak was pretty much the same. People look at raw numbers and assumed Hakeem was better, but Duncan was about the same in terms of offensive responsibilities. While I admit that, at his peak, Hakeem was the better defensive player, Duncan was much more versatile in terms of building a team around.

Sports medicine, competition, voter bias, etc ..
Team accomplishments. Different competition. 2nd banana vs. alpha.
Why? Why aren't 1st and 2nd team All NBA players overrated?
In 3 less finals appearances (which are team accomplishments btw).
As mentioned, Hakeem's peak really isn't > Duncan, they are more equal than people acknowledge. Same as Shaq. People are obsessed over raw numbers, but like I said, 1 pound <> 1 US Dolalr <> 1 Cambodian Riel <> 1 Japanese Yen.

Stats ... Yawn.
I hate awards but I never saw MJ denied a 1st team all NBA when he deserved it, can't say the same for that bullshit MVP award.
Adjusted pace? Yawn . Hakeem. Was better at his peak and it culminated with a repeat. He also outplayed David, Ewing and a young Shaq in route. I take prime dream over Tim. My eyes a repeat over the best bigs is enough for me.
Media bias did not help Larry Legend?! Gtfo. And yes Bird did say Kobe was greater but to lazy to look. You believe me great, if not. Oh well.
I agree Kobe would have shitty shot selection see my posts above.
If you watched both play and can't see that Kobe had greater range don't know what to tell you. He does have the record for 3s in a game. MJ gets hot in a Finals he shrugs his shoulder cuz that was not his game....but whatever.

[ambchang]

O

Stats ... Yawn.

I apologize for putting in stats, because stats show how overrated Kobe really is.


I hate awards but I never saw MJ denied a 1st team all NBA when he deserved it, can't say the same for that bullshit MVP award.

Why specific to MJ? I saw plenty of times Kobe won 1st team all NBA when he didn't deserve it.


Adjusted pace? Yawn . Hakeem. Was better at his peak and it culminated with a repeat. He also outplayed David, Ewing and a young Shaq in route. I take prime dream over Tim. My eyes a repeat over the best bigs is enough for me.

Good for you. Duncan went through Shaq.


Media bias did not help Larry Legend?! Gtfo. And yes Bird did say Kobe was greater but to lazy to look. You believe me great, if not. Oh well.

Not that I don't, just that I haven't read/heard of it. Otoh, Bird has repeatedly underrated himself in front of the media despite being a cocky bastard. Great PR move IMHO.


I agree Kobe would have shitty shot selection see my posts above.
If you watched both play and can't see that Kobe had greater range don't know what to tell you. He does have the record for 3s in a game. MJ gets hot in a Finals he shrugs his shoulder cuz that was not his game....but whatever.

Jordan had record 3s, got hot in a game. Kobe had record 3s ONCE, he has always been that good. Gotcha.

[Killakobe81]

WTF is this bullshit? Now that you finally acknowledge Kobe was a beta, you are saying that his beta status was better than Pippen's beta status?

Give me a break KK, just stop, please. You are making rules out of your ass now.

Never said anything about beta ...if you think pip is in the same class as the rest you lose any credibility and i claim victory in any and all future debates as well as our past ones. Kobe won without Shaq ...still waiting for pip to lead ants to picnic.

[Killakobe81]

amb juking stats like he works for the Baltimore PD or the principal of Dookie, Michael, and namond's middle school.

[ambchang]

Never said anything about beta ...if you think pip is in the same class as the rest you lose any credibility and i claim victory in any and all future debates as well as our past ones. Kobe won without Shaq ...still waiting for pip to lead ants to picnic.

Whether one player won without another is not the point. Kobe had the fortune of playing with MVPau, Bynum and Odom frontline when the league was pathetic in terms of front court talent. While each individual player in and of themselves is not of any legendary status, the combination of the three of them, or even two of them, posses a huge matchup issue with any other teams. The matchup is about as advantageous as a Shaq or Jordan vs. their respective competition.

And no, Kobe is not in a specific class above Pip if you can group him with alphas like Duncan, Magic, Bird and Jordan. He is clearly a rung below.

You said Kobe won as the 2nd best player on the team = 2nd banana = beta. There is no distinction.

[ambchang]

amb juking stats like he works for the Baltimore PD or the principal of Dookie, Michael, and namond's middle school.

KK juking rhetorical like he works for the ministry of truth in Iraq.

[Phillip]

Ok, im convinced you're either really stupid or just a good ol fanboi.

I already taught you history and I remember you not having any rebuttal but here we go again, ill dish it once more since you seem to have little understanding about the series when you're probably 3 yrs old at the time :lol

You CANNOT, EVER, EVER compare kerr and paxson's shots against ray allen's game 6 hailmary. EVER.


the bulls were up 3-1 at one point against phoenix in 93, and 3-2 against the jazz. the bulls were never in danger of losing the series, they also have HCA which practically guarantees them a win even if they lost games 6 hypothetically, but that's beside the point. lebran stans always like to play this role playing game when it comes to LeBron using arguments like "if kerr and pxson missed the shots, you never know" I mean really, if you have to resort to that "what if" argument, then you already lost. :lol


have you seen Jordan's NBA finals stats from games 1-5 in both series? yeah its quite good.

now, have you seen LeBron's stats in 2013 frm games 1-5? yeah, he shot under 40% not once, but twice :lol laughable.

point is, allen's impact with that hailmary shot is undeniably bigger and larger than both of kerr and paxson's simply because the Spurs already have that game 6 wrapped up after Lebron missed a 3 pts with 10 seconds to go. Allen gave LeBron a second chance to recollect his shitty nba finals self by making that unbelievable shot. You can't say the same for Kerr and Paxson's

Kerr's shot was made with the game tied at 86, missing it would only mean the bulls will take care of business in OT. again, two very different scenarios.
ill help you out with visual aids since you're too unstable to realize it.:lol


http://youtu.be/paJWuS0VykY


http://youtu.be/S2BlOTeoZVE

You are not getting the point. You can say all the what ifs you want. Facts are facts. Lebron won his championships, was MVPs of the series, and pretty much dominated when the team needed him most.

Oh, and MJ shot below 40% twice in a single Finals series before as well. Maybe you should take a look at his series against the Knicks back in 92, where he had 4 games below 40%, including one game where he shot 16%. Everyone has off days. Some teams simply are bad matchups or make specific defensive adjustments for your personal abilities. The greats find ways to battle through the bad matchups and still make plays, which MJ did in his various playoff series where he didn't shoot well, and Lebron did against the Spurs this past year.

[Killakobe81]

Whether one player won without another is not the point. Kobe had the fortune of playing with MVPau, Bynum and Odom frontline when the league was pathetic in terms of front court talent. While each individual player in and of themselves is not of any legendary status, the combination of the three of them, or even two of them, posses a huge matchup issue with any other teams. The matchup is about as advantageous as a Shaq or Jordan vs. their respective competition.

And no, Kobe is not in a specific class above Pip if you can group him with alphas like Duncan, Magic, Bird and Jordan. He is clearly a rung below.

You said Kobe won as the 2nd best player on the team = 2nd banana = beta. There is no distinction.

nope . I did not say that. I said I do not qualify rings for hof caliber players otherwise Kareem doesnt have 6 or Magic 5 ... Kobe is not in Goat convo IMHO but he still greater career wise than Bird, Duncan and LeBron Duncan is close same as Bird but LeBron may pass all 3

[RsxPiimp]

For the mathematically challenged, 33% > 6/24, or 25%. Unless, of course, 25% is actually > 33% because Kobe shot more :lol

youre too stupid to realize that lebron comparison is with jordan :lmao

[RsxPiimp]

Some guy shot 100 shots and made 30 of them, he shot 30%. Some guy shot 1000 shots and made 300 of the, he shot 30%.

If you know your math, you can tell that 30% = 30%. There is no difference.


you do understand that the guy taking 1000 shots is bound to miss a lot more shots than the guy taking 100? i don't even know why i argue with you, because you lack the basic concepts of logic, tbh. :lol

[ambchang]

nope . I did not say that. I said I do not qualify rings for hof caliber players otherwise Kareem doesnt have 6 or Magic 5 ... Kobe is not in Goat convo IMHO but he still greater career wise than Bird, Duncan and LeBron Duncan is close same as Bird but LeBron may pass all 3

So Kobe has the best career despite being the worst of the bunch because he coattailed?

[ambchang]

youre too stupid to realize that lebron comparison is with jordan :lmao

You are too stupid to realize that we have been talking Kobe, Lebron and Jordan (in ascending order of greatness) for a long time on this thread

[RsxPiimp]

You are not getting the point. You can say all the what ifs you want. Facts are facts. Lebron won his championships, was MVPs of the series, and pretty much dominated when the team needed him most..

hey clown, that what if comment started from you. :lol



Oh, and MJ shot below 40% twice in a single Finals series before as well. Maybe you should take a look at his series against the Knicks back in 92, where he had 4 games below 40%, including one game where he shot 16%. Everyone has off days. Some teams simply are bad matchups or make specific defensive adjustments for your personal abilities. The greats find ways to battle through the bad matchups and still make plays, which MJ did in his various playoff series where he didn't shoot well, and Lebron did against the Spurs this past year.

i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang, please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

[RsxPiimp]

You are too stupid to realize that we have been talking Kobe, Lebron and Jordan (in ascending order of greatness) for a long time on this thread

no, the comparison was jordan and lebron's finals until you conveniently added another player, keep track of things, your stupidity just never cease to stop :lol

for someone who keeps claiming kobe belongs in pippen talks, you seem to always put him in this conversation. make up your mind and paint your face pink, clown. :lol

[ambchang]

you do understand that the guy taking 1000 shots is bound to miss a lot more shots than the guy taking 100? i don't even know why i argue with you, because you lack the basic concepts of logic, tbh. :lol

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?


I agree that it is difficult to argue when your basic premise is 30% > 30%.

It would be even more difficult I argue that your basis for argument is logic.

[Phillip]

hey clown, that what if comment started from you. :lol



i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=986), please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

The script? You moron. You and other morons are the ones who keeps bringing up RayRay's 3, bascially saying "if Allen didn't hit that 3, blah blah blah"

Point is, he hit it. The Heat won. Just like Paxson and Kerr hit huge shots. Plenty of idiots and MJ haters say "if Paxson and Kerr didnt hit those shots, maybe MJ has less titles". Doesn't matter. They hit them. The Bulls won.

[Arcadian]

MJ is without question a more skilled one on one player than Lebron, although I think its pretty much impossible to stop him from driving once he gets a head of steam if you have to guard him with no help. It's hard to say who would win that, because even though MJ has more skills and Lebron would be a one trick pony, its an unstoppable trick, much like Shaq. He didn't have a ton of moves, but once he backed you deep in the paint, put his body on you and spun, there was no stopping him in any one on one situation. Lebron is the same with his drive. I don't know if MJ could handle his big body, power, and finishing ability.

But truth is, Lebron's one on one ability isnt what makes him great. Its his all around ability. He may not be the very best in any one aspect of the game, but he is still elite in virtually every aspect of the game.

Good points.

So we could draw a parallel comparison between Shaq/Duncan as with Lebron/Jordan.

Shaq and Lebron have their unstoppable go-to move, while Duncan and MJ were more skilled overall.

[ambchang]

hey clown, that what if comment started from you. :lol



i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang, please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

Does his logic include 30% < 30%? I'd be shocked to find a person this stupid .... I mean another person.

[Phillip]

Good points.

So we could draw a parallel comparison between Shaq/Duncan as with Lebron/Jordan.

Shaq and Lebron have their unstoppable go-to move, while Duncan and MJ were more skilled overall.

Yeah, you could say that. I've said for years that Lebron is bascially the "Shaq of point guards". He may not have a ton of moves, but the moves he does have are nearly unstoppable unless you completely sell out your team defense. And now that Lebron actually has some decent help, he is winning championships, even though he still has a team that is poorly built to maximize his talents.

[RsxPiimp]

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?


I agree that it is difficult to argue when your basic premise is 30% > 30%.

It would be even more difficult I argue that your basis for argument is logic.

Wow where did you go to school? This is so basic and you don't even have a firm understanding of how it works:lol


Jordan's strength has never been 3 pt shooting, asking him to take a lot more during the period of his career will not magically increase the percentage, in fact it will most certainly drop a bit lower.

[Koolaid_Man]

Yeah, you could say that. I've said for years that Lebron is bascially the "Shaq of point guards". He may not have a ton of moves, but the moves he does have are nearly unstoppable unless you completely sell out your team defense. And now that Lebron actually has some decent help, he is winning championships, even though he still has a team that is poorly built to maximize his talents.


translation = even though I'm not getting any pussy I'm still having orgasms because I'm jerking off daily....

[StrengthAndHonor]

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?.

I don't think it's a matter of 30%=30%.

Considering both players skills are equal, Player A shooting 100 shots will actually convert a better percentage versus Player B taking 1000 shots.


With + 900 shots taking into consideration, fatigue comes to play.

[ambchang]

Wow where did you go to school? This is so basic and you don't even have a firm understanding of how it works:lol


Jordan's strength has never been 3 pt shooting, asking him to take a lot more during the period of his career will not magically increase the percentage, in fact it will most certainly drop a bit lower.

I went to a school that taught 30%=30%. I didn't go to a school that taught about the strengths of Jordan's game. Bye. Jordan's strength really has never been 3 pt shooting, but it just so happened that he is about as good as Kobe despite that.

[ambchang]

I don't think it's a matter of 30%=30%.

Considering both players skills are equal, Player A shooting 100 shots will actually convert a better percentage versus Player B taking 1000 shots.


With + 900 shots taking into consideration, fatigue comes to play.

That comes with better shot selection, bit 30% still = 30%. A player should be able to factor in defenses and fatigue, if a player cannot understand that, he shoots a lower %. It's that easy.

[Brazil]

you do understand that the guy taking 1000 shots is bound to miss a lot more shots than the guy taking 100? i don't even know why i argue with you, because you lack the basic concepts of logic, tbh. :lol

:lmao

that's terrible

[RsxPiimp]

I went to a school that taught 30%=30%..

then you need to go back and tell them they taught you wrong. there are always context in any numbers or stats...just like life in general.

30% of the population in china does not have the same number as 30% of population in california. :lol

[Phillip]

translation = even though I'm not getting any pussy I'm still having orgasms because I'm jerking off daily....
hi koolaidman

[ambchang]

then you need to go back and tell them they taught you wrong. there are always context in any numbers or stats...just like life in general.

30% of the population in china does not have the same number as 30% of population in california. :lol
Nobody talked about the total made or misses shots. You also need to go back to for comprehension.

[ElNono]

:lol when has prime Kobe ever defended a notable player, tbh?...

:lol Larry Brown abusing him running simple screens for Rip Hamilton...

[Rogue]

MJ's trash talk is also the best of all time and I have absolutely no doubt he'd beat my nigga bron in a trash talk contest, tbh.

[ambchang]

:lol Larry Brown abusing him running simple screens for Rip Hamilton...

Or KFC hiding him on Bruce but Bruce still went off for 27 points.

[Killakobe81]

The more I read Amb the more I realize how dumb he can be for a person with obvious intellect. Only in amns world are pau and pippen even anywhere near this conversation.

[ambchang]

The more I read Amb the more I realize how dumb he can be for a person with obvious intellect. Only in amns world are pau and pippen even anywhere near this conversation.

Because you brought in pippen.
Because Kobe's a second banana, just like pippen.
Because MVPau brought two titles to the lakers. As a laker fan, you should be more appreciative.

[Calispursfan11]

MJ and Kobe have that extra something Lebron will never have, cajones. He may be the most physically gifted and one of the most intelligent players ever to step on a court but he's not a man in the strictest sense of the word. Wilt, MJ, Kobe and Delonte West. Now those are dudes are men tbh. Lebron is closer to the likes of RJ than any of those I just mentioned.

[Phillip]

MJ and Kobe have that extra something Lebron will never have, cajones. He may be the most physically gifted and one of the most intelligent players ever to step on a court but he's not a man in the strictest sense of the word. Wilt, MJ, Kobe and Delonte West. Now those are dudes are men tbh. Lebron is closer to the likes of RJ than any of those I just mentioned.
I'm curious what makes you believe this so strongly

[Phillip]

The more I read Amb the more I realize how dumb he can be for a person with obvious intellect. Only in amns world are pau and pippen even anywhere near this conversation.
Amb is one of the best posters on the forum... until the name "Kobe" is brought into the discussion. I don't know what happens to him then. Did Kobe 69 his mom when he was younger, and he walked in the room or something? I don't get the extreme hate.

[ambchang]

Amb is one of the best posters on the forum... until the name "Kobe" is brought into the discussion. I don't know what happens to him then. Did Kobe 69 his mom when he was younger, and he walked in the room or something? I don't get the extreme hate.

Given that I am older than Kobe, that would be quite a feat, but I am not surprised if Kobestans try to pull that one off, because simple logic doesn't apply.

Speaking of which, I don't see any extreme hate. In fact, a 2nd banana Kobe in the Shaq-led Laker days would have been a great compliment to Duncan, and if Kobe can take his natural born beta role with his beta abilities, he would have won 4 or 5 in a row with either Shaq or Duncan. I am just saying it like it is, because Kobe is a beta who is portrayed as an alpha. He is in line with the likes of Garnett, Havlicek, and Dirk. Or even West, Dr J., Wade and such. Great players, just not in the same level as a Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Oscar or even Lebron.

[Rogue]

Given that I am older than Kobe, that would be quite a feat, but I am not surprised if Kobestans try to pull that one off, because simple logic doesn't apply.

Speaking of which, I don't see any extreme hate. In fact, a 2nd banana Kobe in the Shaq-led Laker days would have been a great compliment to Duncan, and if Kobe can take his natural born beta role with his beta abilities, he would have won 4 or 5 in a row with either Shaq or Duncan. I am just saying it like it is, because Kobe is a beta who is portrayed as an alpha. He is in line with the likes of Garnett, Havlicek, and Dirk. Or even West, Dr J., Wade and such. Great players, just not in the same level as a Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Oscar or even Lebron.
You sorted Dirk in the wrong line imho. Dirk carried the team on his own bony german shoulders and won the championship without no significant #2 banana, plus he kept the team in the league's top flight for more than 10 years despite the team's owner being a jackass. Dirk definitely belongs in the same class with the likes of Shaq, Bird, MJ, Hakeem and so on.

[RsxPiimp]

Because Kobe's a second banana, just like pippen.
Because MVPau brought two titles to the lakers. As a laker fan, you should be more appreciative.

you like to contradict yourself, if that's the case, why not compare pau gasol to lebron and jordan :lol

lets see you have at it

inutil ka talaga kuya:lol

[ambchang]

you like to contradict yourself, if that's the case, why not compare pau gasol to lebron and jordan :lol

lets see you have at it

inutil ka talaga kuya:lol

Kobe, odom and Bynum are components for a great supporting cast. So pay gets points deducted and not on the same pedestal as Lebron and Jordan.

While I didn't contradict myself (not exactly sure how that came about), contradicting oneself is still better than contradicting the laws of mathematics and simple logic. Like 30%>30%

[ambchang]

You sorted Dirk in the wrong line imho. Dirk carried the team on his own bony german shoulders and won the championship without no significant #2 banana, plus he kept the team in the league's top flight for more than 10 years despite the team's owner being a jackass. Dirk definitely belongs in the same class with the likes of Shaq, Bird, MJ, Hakeem and so on.

While what dirk did in 2011 was simply phenomenal, what he did in 2006 and 2007 was not. And 2011 was a perfect team that hides dirks weaknesses ( interior defense with chandler, using a motion offense and great spacing to compensate for dirks lack of interior offense). Shaq, Duncan, MJ didn't need those covers and we're much easier to build around.

[RsxPiimp]

I went to a school that taught 30%=30%

:lmao

[ambchang]

:lmao

Really, there are actual schools that taught 30% = 30%. I am having trouble finding one that teaches 30% > 30%.

[RsxPiimp]

Really, there are actual schools that taught 30% = 30%. I am having trouble finding one that teaches 30% > 30%.

That's kindergarten level tbh:lol

My 10 yr old brother knows 30% of China's population doesn't have the same number as 30% of the population in California. :lmao

You're such a retard amb.:lol

[ambchang]

That's kindergarten level tbh:lol

My 10 yr old brother knows 30% of China's population doesn't have the same number as 30% of the population in California. :lmao

You're such a retard amb.:lol

Who said it wasn't? Your 10 year old brother also knows that 30% = 30%, while you don't. You should ask your 10 year old brother to teach you math. Better yet, you should ask your 10 year old brother's toy truck to teach you math and comprehension, because it's probably better than you are in both things.

[StrengthAndHonor]

My experience with ambchang is simply to ignore him after his first 2-3 replies, he's just a stubborn old fella and like Phillip said, his reasoning becomes muddy when the name Kobe is entered in the argument.

[ambchang]

My experience with ambchang is simply to ignore him after his first 2-3 replies, he's just a stubborn old fella and like Phillip said, his reasoning becomes muddy when the name Kobe is entered in the argument.

:lol so you are agreeing that 30% < 30%?

[DMC]

Amb is one of the best posters on the forum... until the name "Kobe" is brought into the discussion. I don't know what happens to him then. Did Kobe 69 his mom when he was younger, and he walked in the room or something? I don't get the extreme hate.

Pretty sure if that happened, the shower would be wet because Kobe has to finish himself in the shower.

[Rogue]

While what dirk did in 2011 was simply phenomenal, what he did in 2006 and 2007 was not. And 2011 was a perfect team that hides dirks weaknesses ( interior defense with chandler, using a motion offense and great spacing to compensate for dirks lack of interior offense). Shaq, Duncan, MJ didn't need those covers and we're much easier to build around.
Dirk carried a shitload of sorry fucks into the NBA finals in 06 and got the best regular season record of the whole league the next season with the same retarded teammates, I think that was what the prime Kobe couldn't do. MJ belongs to a class of his own, and the likes of Duncan and Magic the class right next career-wise, but I don't think there's much difference to tell between Dirk and Kobe, or any player of similar caliber, in terms of greatness.

I agree Dirk had the right support in 11 which was why they won, but it's not like other legends like MJ and Duncan could win championships on their own. MJ was a poor 3pt shooter but the bulls made up for it with Steve Kerr and kuko, and your Duncan also needed not one, but two superstars playing alongside him in order for him to ring. 11' Duncan was just as great as the prime one but he was basically fighting by himself with an injured parker and an ass-sucking manu, which was why they lost.

[ambchang]

Dirk carried a shitload of sorry fucks into the NBA finals in 06 and got the best regular season record of the whole league the next season with the same retarded teammates, I think that was what the prime Kobe couldn't do. MJ belongs to a class of his own, and the likes of Duncan and Magic the class right next career-wise, but I don't think there's much difference to tell between Dirk and Kobe, or any player of similar caliber, in terms of greatness.

I agree Dirk had the right support in 11 which was why they won, but it's not like other legends like MJ and Duncan could win championships on their own. MJ was a poor 3pt shooter but the bulls made up for it with Steve Kerr and kuko, and your Duncan also needed not one, but two superstars playing alongside him in order for him to ring. 11' Duncan was just as great as the prime one but he was basically fighting by himself with an injured parker and an ass-sucking manu, which was why they lost.

Please don't compare Kobe to the group. There are many things Kobe can't do. Lets say this, dirk and Kobe are closer than Kobe and shaq/duncan

As for Jordan, his inability in 3s were largely exaggerated. Sure he wasn't that good during the earlier days, but the league wasn't heavy on using 3s back then anyways. By the time the rockets offense changed the league, Jordan was a decent 3 pt shooter.

Duncan in 2003 had no superstars beside him, his best teammate tha year was either a Robinson on his last legs or a before his prime Stephen Jackson. 13 Duncan is as far behind 03 Duncan as Kobe is behind Jordan. The difference is huge.