Initial attempts to sign up for ObamaCare go about as well as expected

[AntiChrist]

But, in their defense, they've only had 3 years to prepare


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ykNicsCDo

[AntiChrist]

I like how complete failure = a glitch :lmao

[ElNono]

Should've had Bezos run it, tbh... Free one year amazon prime if you upgrade to the silver plan, etc

[MannyIsGod]

On one hand, they should have been ready.

On the other hand, shows there is quite the demand to check it out. If prices and plans are good then they'll have a high demand.

[AntiChrist]

On one hand, they should have been ready.

On the other hand, shows there is quite the demand to check it out. If prices and plans are good then they'll have a high demand.


You think the servers got overloaded? :lmao

[Th'Pusher]

Democrats caused the shutdown so no one would pay attention to the glitch

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You think the servers got overloaded? :lmao

What do you think happened?

[AntiChrist]

What do you think happened?

I think it's a piece of shit that's not ready for prime time

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think it's a piece of shit that's not ready for prime time

Just the type of insight and understanding that we can always expect from you.

[ElNono]

Six months to sign up... Don't think this is going to be a showstopper...

[2centsworth]

had a 26 yr old single female at the office get a quote for $135/month

[ElNono]

had a 26 yr old single female at the office get a quote for $135/month

Not bad

[2centsworth]

Not bad

Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.

[angrydude]

had a 26 yr old single female at the office get a quote for $135/month

Forced to pay $ 135 a month for the privilege of being alive in america. Thank you Obama

[ChumpDumper]

Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.What would she have paid for a similar individual plan before now?

[ElNono]

Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.

Not where I'm at. High deductible individual plans started at $300 for that age range.

http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcratepage_sp.pdf

[boutons_deux]

Six months to sign up... Don't think this is going to be a showstopper...

only 3 month in TX and some other red states, that have disqualified all the navigators until trained which won't be complete until Jan.

I figure ACA will become better than Repugs DHS and FEMA :lol

I'm sure Fox will trash it viciously for any start up problems.

[AntiChrist]

only 3 month in TX and some other red states, that have disqualified all the navigators until trained which won't be complete until Jan.

I figure ACA will become better than Repugs DHS and FEMA :lol

I'm sure Fox will trash it viciously for any start up problems.


Ultra right-wing extremisssss gun felatin' host from MSNBC is trashing it in the OP.

[2centsworth]

Not where I'm at. High deductible individual plans started at $300 for that age range.

no way unless you live in the middle of an asbestos plant.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I hope it's a piece of shit and doesn't work because if it does I am going to look like an even bigger dumb ass than normal

[George Gervin's Afro]

great thread by the way

[ElNono]

no way unless you live in the middle of an asbestos plant.

Look at the link I added to my previous post. Current rates. Heck, it's really closer to $600/mo for something that doesn't include a $2500.00 deductible.

Now you know why people in certain states will be all over this ACA turd.

[2centsworth]

Not where I'm at. High deductible individual plans started at $300 for that age range.

http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcratepage_sp.pdf
i think that's the NJ exchange. TBC

[ElNono]

I looked quickly but I saw $783.11 per year for a 26yr old female. TBC

Look again (Rates shown are monthly premiums).

There's a couple of EPO plans that are cheaper, but have 50% co-insurance. Basically, anything catastrophic and you're screwed (which is pretty much the sole reason to get insurance at that age)

[MannyIsGod]

had a 26 yr old single female at the office get a quote for $135/month


Not bad


Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.

Depends on the type of coverage. Absent of deductibles and OOP information that quote doesn't mean anything.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am curious to see what the average rates are going to be and with more standardization in plans it should be much easier to do cost analysis.

I am curious to see what effect it will have on the budget.

I am curious to see how it is going to effect health care access for the uninsured and the major public health metrics.

That is how I will judge Obamacare. I don't care about a software launch problem.

[MannyIsGod]

no way unless you live in the middle of an asbestos plant.

When I was selling plans over 10 years ago that wasn't an outrageous monthly cost for a 26 year old female at all. I don't think it is now unless premiums have dropped. And well, thats pretty much impossible.

[ElNono]

Actually, IIRC, EPO plans are no longer legal under ACA, due to the lack of mandated minimum coverage.

[ElNono]

Hmmm, not sure if it was EPO plans... I know there was a fairly cheap plan most individuals in NJ used to get, but it's no longer legal under ACA...

[boutons_deux]

I'd love to know what language they wrote the web application in, which http server, which database, where is it all hosted.

[boutons_deux]

I think it's a piece of shit that's not ready for prime time

is that your personal experience with the system?

[ChumpDumper]

"Busy website has problems first day online"

Wow!

[2centsworth]

When I was selling plans over 10 years ago that wasn't an outrageous monthly cost for a 26 year old female at all. I don't think it is now unless premiums have dropped. And well, thats pretty much impossible.

group1 is 1 of way too many licenses I have. $135/month is high especially when paying
the fine and waiting till you get sick before buying ins. is so much less expensive.

[ElNono]

group1 is 1 of way too many licenses I have. $135/month is high especially when paying
the fine and waiting till you get sick before buying ins. is so much less expensive.

I would agree to the extent of the first, maybe even second year, and there's no emergency hospitalization needed.
Once the penalty creeps up percentage wise, I'm not sure the math adds up anymore.

[boutons_deux]

the penalty was set way too low and then way to slow a ramp up. It should have been set equal to the avg annual premium for the person and his state or region.

That way you lose the money BUT you still don't have insurance.

[Spurminator]

LOL Obama sux at IT. Point Red Team!

[ChumpDumper]

Since the GTA V servers are having problems tonight, Rockstar decided to end the gaming franchise permanently.

[SA210]

lol freedom

[George Gervin's Afro]

So now we have conservatives advocating paying for other people's medical care if they don't have insurance..I guess darrins errrr Antichrist now is fine with paying for my heathcare.. since he opposes making other people pay for their own...what a bizzarro world we live in now

[AntiChrist]

So now we have conservatives advocating paying for other people's medical care if they don't have insurance..I guess darrins errrr Antichrist now is fine with paying for my heathcare.. since he opposes making other people pay for their own...what a bizzarro world we live in now


One of the few times I've seen you post something other than "Great thread". Kudos

[boutons_deux]

Obamacare's rough IT day: Is anyone surprised?

From an IT perspective it was clear these exchanges were going to be a disaster.



Insurers, the government and states have to sync databases that typically don't communicate with each other well.
The project is largely dependent on the Federal government, which has a poor record of delivering IT implementations on time and on budget. You can spend a lifetime reading General Accountability Office reports on IT disasters.
The Oct. 1 launch is a beta at best. You may want to consider these networked exchanges to be more alpha if anything.
Legacy systems abound.


What's going to be interesting going forward is determining when the general public really cares about IT failures. Obamacare may be an interesting test case, but won't provide anything definitive. The effort is so politically charged that a sizeable chunk of the population will cheer if these exchanges never work.

http://www.zdnet.com/obamacares-rough-it-day-is-anyone-surprised-7000021416/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539

IT support for ACA is the perfect opportunityh for Repug states to sabotage ACA, actively or passively, as more of their bogus proof that govt is fucked up when the Repugs fuck it up.

[AntiChrist]

The project is largely dependent on the Federal government, which has a poor record of delivering IT implementations on time and on budget. You can spend a lifetime reading General Accountability Office reports on IT disasters.




Well, no shit. Kinda the point.

[boutons_deux]

Well, no shit. Kinda the point.

the IT systems for govt are largely delivered by huge private contractors (IBM Federal Systems, SAIC, etc)

[EVAY]

There are tons of problems with this law. Any rational person acknowledges that.

Wouldn't it be nice, though, if even 15% of the time and effort Tea Partiers have spent in trying to abolish it would have spent in fixing it?

[EVAY]

Kathleen Sebelius is a person I knew maybe twenty years ago or so. She was inept then and has not improved, imo. She is a die-hard left wing kool-aid drinker who hates anything having to do with corporate America and I am glad that she is being shown up for the imbecile she is. She and AG Holder are far and away the worst appointments made by Obama.

Having said that, the country needs Universal Health Care. I wish this law provided it but it doesn't.

Did I mention that I am not too fond of the Secretary of Health and Human Services?:lol

[boutons_deux]

There are tons of problems with this law. Any rational person acknowledges that.

Wouldn't it be nice, though, if even 15% of the time and effort Tea Partiers have spent in trying to abolish it would have spent in fixing it?

Any system targeting and trying to accomodate 50M people must be complex, will NEVER be right from startup,and will be tweaked FOREVER.

Now add in 50 states, over half of which are retarding or sabotaging ACA, and you can have a real mess. and CHANGE is always hard.

[EVAY]

Any system targeting and trying to accomodate 50M people must be complex, will NEVER be right from startup,and will be tweaked FOREVER.

Now add in 50 states, over half of which are retarding or sabotaging ACA, and you can have a real mess. and CHANGE is always hard.

I really wasn't even talking about the start-up issues, b_d. I agree with that. My point was that we would all be better off FIXING the thing than beating up on it. I wish the Tea Partiers would f$%#&ing GOVERN rather than just piss on everybody and everything that is not them.

[boutons_deux]

tea baggers are hate/destroy-govt anarchists (but non nihilist, there's method and objectives in their anarchy), doing the bidding of the 1%/UCA that have privileged positions now, want to CONSERVE and increase their privileges. Fucking up, weakending, destroying govt is the best way for the privileged to proctect and increase their privileges.

[AntiChrist]

There are tons of problems with this law. Any rational person acknowledges that.

Wouldn't it be nice, though, if even 15% of the time and effort Tea Partiers have spent in trying to abolish it would have spent in fixing it?



Only something like 30 of the 232 House Republicans are "tea baggers", so I don't know why people think they have so much power.


Also, the GOP did TRY to add a bunch of admendments to ACA, but they weren't so successful.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/


Ironically, ONE of the amendments that would require members of congress to enroll in any govt-run plan that was created, was shot down by Dems.

[MannyIsGod]

There are bad parts of the law. Health Insurance exchanges are certainly not one of them. Not sure why anyone would want this to fail.

[boutons_deux]

There are bad parts of the law. Health Insurance exchanges are certainly not one of them. Not sure why anyone would want this to fail.

Cruz and other tea baggers want the entire ACA to fail, they want it defunded since they don't have the votes to repeal it

[EVAY]

Only something like 30 of the 232 House Republicans are "tea baggers", so I don't know why people think they have so much power.


Also, the GOP did TRY to add a bunch of admendments to ACA, but they weren't so successful.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/


Ironically, ONE of the amendments that would require members of congress to enroll in any govt-run plan that was created, was shot down by Dems.

Today's USA Today has an article (or maybe it was CNN, I forget) that says that 133 House Republicans would support a straight-up vote on the budget and would pass it. That means to me that the Tea Party members have an outsized impact on the House due in part to their control over Boehner. Moreover, the same number was said to have voted against the piece-meal funding that the Tea Partiers were trying to advance in order to get only the parts of the Government funded that they approve of or are afraid to be seen as blocking. That again says that the majority of the Republicans in the House are at least sane enough to try to to govern rather than obstruct.

The fact that we are still at an impasse tells me though that the Tea Party's outsized influence remains. So many other Republicans (including the Speaker) would be willing to pass a clean bill and let the government function, but for their fear that the Tea Party will run against them in their next primary. So, there are the Tea Partiers and then there are the Republicans who are afraid of the Tea Party. Same difference in practical terms.

[boutons_deux]

"33 House Republicans would support a straight-up vote on the budget and would pass it. "

I've seen the estimate as high as 175.

But they are intimidated about being primaried by the VRWC/Kock Bros if they vote a clean CR. and Boner is worried about losing his Speaker job (replaced by Issa or Ryan?)

[ploto]

Health Insurance exchanges are certainly not one of them. Not sure why anyone would want this to fail.

Guess these people have never had a job that does not provide health insurance and wished they could be a part of some group - any group! I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges.

[baseline bum]

I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/489/941/85b.gif

[boutons_deux]

"I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges."

Ploto, I'd like you to meet Harry and Louise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt31nhleeCg

10Ms of victims of for-profit insurance are hoping Potter is right: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/tomorrow-is-d-day-for-hea_b_4016306.html

[Wild Cobra]

Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.

No kidding.

I wonder what her penalty would be for not buying it?

[TSA]

$95 or 1% of earned income?

[EVAY]

$95 or 1% of earned income?

Whichever is less, right?

[TSA]

Whichever is less, right?

Believe so. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty of at all. If I was young and strapped for cash (like most young Americans are) I'd take the penalty and spend the rest of my $300 a month on hookers and blow.

[EVAY]

Believe so. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty of at all. If I was young and strapped for cash (like most young Americans are) I'd take the penalty and spend the rest of my $300 a month on hookers and blow.

Wel, I wouldn't blame you, and I suspect that a lot of folks will do just that. At least until they get hit with something.

I have lived through an awful lot of these reformations in health care, and I remember one of the first ones coming as my employer made everyone in the company go into an HMO. My internist at the time politely declined to do any such thing so I had to change doctors. The company initiated the change because the AIDS epidemic was really getting going and the company was self-insured, so the premiums were going through the roof.

Then when I turned 65 (yeah I am really really really old) I was stunned to learn that my retirement health insurance through my employer (for which we have been paying $600 per month for just us two) would only check in AFTER Medicare payments. It pissed me off because I never applied for Social Security Payments, so I couldn't figure why I had to go on Medicare, but there it is.

Now I'm waiting for my current internist to give up on me because of this new law. But I survived the last time it happened in the name of capitalism; I suspect I will survive it this time in the name of the ACA.

Lots of these things are not worth the sound and the fury that accompany them.

[boutons_deux]

If there isn't already, there will be some way to prevent gaming the system by paying the penalty unitl one's medical bills push them to buy insurance when they need it.

Another way to game the system is the above, buy insurance one or two years, become healthy, then go back to paying the penalty.

The above is solved by increasing the penalty to what a person's insurance premium would be.

[ElNono]

Whichever is less, right?

Nope, whatever is higher.

[Drachen]

When I was selling plans over 10 years ago that wasn't an outrageous monthly cost for a 26 year old female at all. I don't think it is now unless premiums have dropped. And well, thats pretty much impossible.


I sold defined benefit plans in 2006 and a single female attar age would have cost 120ish so 135 for these type of plans is pretty good.

[AntiChrist]

lol



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noY4nOsj37U

[AntiChrist]

Media apparently able to find only one person who signed up for Obamacare exchanges


http://washingtonexaminer.com/media-apparently-able-to-find-only-one-person-who-signed-up-for-obamacare-exchanges/article/2536770

[scott]

Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.

26 year old female on my Pre-ACA rate table (the insurance I provide my employees) was $248.87/month.

[scott]

I'll follow up by providing this for fodder: we got our renewal notice, premiums going up 8.99% for our plan (which is a pretty good plan. Probably would rank "Gold" by ACA ranking standards). Pretty much in line with the increases I've seen since 2009.

[SA210]

Minnesota Obamacare exchange leaks private information of 2,400 people

http://benswann.com/minnesota-obamacare-exchange-leaks-private-information-of-2400-people/

Less than 24 hours after the Obamacare exchanges opened on October 1 – and indeed before the exchange database even went live – the first reported breach of privacy occurred. An employee of MNsure, Minnesota’s Obamacare exchange, accidentally sent an unencrypted email (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/01/it-begins-first-obamacare-security-breach-leaks-2400-americans-info/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) to the wrong person. The email contained the private information of over two thousand people, and went to a local insurance broker.

The broker, Jim Koester, deleted the information, and later reported it, but the incident was a striking illustration of the insecurity of the Obamacare system. The data included names, addresses and Social Security numbers, as well as other information. As Koester told the Minnesota Star Tribune (http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/14/obamacare-exchange-leaks-data-of-2400-unsuspecting-customers/), “What if this had fallen into the wrong hands? It’s scary. If this is happening now, how can clients of MNsure be confident that their data is safe?”

Though the majority of Americans were ideologically skeptical of Obamacare when it was initially passed, it has been developments in the past few months which have illustrated practical problems with the program’s implementation. Members of Congress and experts have been concerned for weeks about database integrity and design flaws, as well as the selection of employees trusted with the data.

The incident (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/26/obamacare-hub-to-put-nsa-data-mining-to-shame-here-are-the-potentially-scary-details/) also compounds concerns Obamacare critics have expressed since the beginning about the program’s data mining. As long as it’s stored at a state level, doctors are encouraged to ask very private information about individuals. The data does not only include identifiers such as name, address and SSN, but also income, citizenship status, tax information, family size, citizenship, health plan enrollment, incarceration status and even gun ownership.

Some of this data cannot be stored at the federal level, but it can be stored at the state level and used by the federal government at any time. The fact that the system, called the Hub (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/16/obama-to-announce-gun-control-proposals-shortly/), is run by thousands of unvetted, low level federal employees, who can easily access it for their own gain or spread it to others unintentionally, only adds to that concern. The recent NSA and IRS scandals have shown how willing the government is to abuse its possession of such information, and Obamacare has now revealed how insecure this possession is.

This leak (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8070253/Wikileaks-10-greatest-stories.html) – and the similar ones which will inevitably follow – also comes at a time in which this data can impact people’s lives most strongly. Not only can leaks lead to identity theft, they can lead to the publishing of information which leads to simple conflict which would not otherwise happen. In 2009, for instance, Wikileaks – which relies almost exclusively on leaks by government employees – published the membership list of the controversial British National Party, which remains online today and has led to firings.

Obamacare’s collection and storing of data on private citizens is wrong, but the fact that it is handled with such irresponsibility is unconscionable. The October 1 MNsure leak was a perfect illustration of this problem, and a situation which will likely be repeated with less benign results. As Democrats refuse to make any compromise whatsoever on Obamacare, it’s worthwhile to note the severe problems, both ideological and practical, of the system.

Benn Swann warned the public on this risk. See article here (http://benswann.com/obamacare-navigators-wont-have-to-pass-background-checks/). Unfortunately the possibility of American’s personal data being breached in this massive Government program has now become a reality.

[ElNono]

^ If true, that employee should be jailed. There are strict regulations on transfer of patient information (HIPPA).

The concern over government collecting the data as part of this program is a bit silly, since the data is no different than what the IRS already collects (and the IRS is part of the program). If anything, it's stupid since it's redundant.

[AntiChrist]

Looks like they found someone who was able to sign up. HuffPo is pretty excited about it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/obamacare-launch_n_4037136.html


Turns out, he will pay $175/month, about 18% of his $11,500 annual salary. Oh, and he's an Organizing for Action volunteer -- lol. Sucess story.

[boutons_deux]

how ACA does in the first few weeks and months is not the measure, but in the first years.

google the disastrous start and history of THE REPUGS' unfunded corporate welfare called Medicare Part D and Medicare Advantage to see how many YEARS it took for seniors to get into them.

[AntiChrist]

how ACA does in the first few weeks and months is not the measure, but in the first years.

google the disastrous start and history of THE REPUGS' unfunded corporate welfare called Medicare Part D and Medicare Advantage to see how many YEARS it took for seniors to get into them.


Better hope young, healthy people get signed up in high numbers, or this "crowning achievement" will go into a death spiral. ACA will implode if a lot of people choose to wait until they are sick to sign up.

[boutons_deux]

Better hope young, healthy people get signed up in high numbers, or this "crowning achievement" will go into a death spiral. ACA will implode if a lot of people choose to wait until they are sick to sign up.

just read an article about the 50+ year old guy who has never had health insurance, very trim, fit, lots of exercise, great diet. Now he has thyroid cancer and is loving.

ACA is the best that could done to mollify the greedy bastards of the health care industry (and they're already gaming the system, not by denying health insurance, but by denying membership in their "network" cartels to organizations who treat the poor and sick), but it's a lot worse than mandatory, income-docked universal health insurance like non-Randian, non-dog-eat-dog industrial countries have.

[boutons_deux]

Repugs lying, as always

GOP Congressman: Massive Traffic To Obamacare Exchanges Was Members Of Congress And The Media (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2733351/gop-congressmans-tries-to-explain-away-obamacares-popularity/)

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2733351/gop-congressmans-tries-to-explain-away-obamacares-popularity/

:lol

[hitmanyr2k]

Minnesota Obamacare exchange leaks private information of 2,400 people

http://benswann.com/minnesota-obamacare-exchange-leaks-private-information-of-2400-people/

Less than 24 hours after the Obamacare exchanges opened on October 1 – and indeed before the exchange database even went live – the first reported breach of privacy occurred. An employee of MNsure, Minnesota’s Obamacare exchange, accidentally sent an unencrypted email (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/01/it-begins-first-obamacare-security-breach-leaks-2400-americans-info/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) to the wrong person. The email contained the private information of over two thousand people, and went to a local insurance broker.

The broker, Jim Koester, deleted the information, and later reported it, but the incident was a striking illustration of the insecurity of the Obamacare system. The data included names, addresses and Social Security numbers, as well as other information. As Koester told the Minnesota Star Tribune (http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/14/obamacare-exchange-leaks-data-of-2400-unsuspecting-customers/), “What if this had fallen into the wrong hands? It’s scary. If this is happening now, how can clients of MNsure be confident that their data is safe?”

Though the majority of Americans were ideologically skeptical of Obamacare when it was initially passed, it has been developments in the past few months which have illustrated practical problems with the program’s implementation. Members of Congress and experts have been concerned for weeks about database integrity and design flaws, as well as the selection of employees trusted with the data.

The incident (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/26/obamacare-hub-to-put-nsa-data-mining-to-shame-here-are-the-potentially-scary-details/) also compounds concerns Obamacare critics have expressed since the beginning about the program’s data mining. As long as it’s stored at a state level, doctors are encouraged to ask very private information about individuals. The data does not only include identifiers such as name, address and SSN, but also income, citizenship status, tax information, family size, citizenship, health plan enrollment, incarceration status and even gun ownership.

Some of this data cannot be stored at the federal level, but it can be stored at the state level and used by the federal government at any time. The fact that the system, called the Hub (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/16/obama-to-announce-gun-control-proposals-shortly/), is run by thousands of unvetted, low level federal employees, who can easily access it for their own gain or spread it to others unintentionally, only adds to that concern. The recent NSA and IRS scandals have shown how willing the government is to abuse its possession of such information, and Obamacare has now revealed how insecure this possession is.

This leak (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8070253/Wikileaks-10-greatest-stories.html) – and the similar ones which will inevitably follow – also comes at a time in which this data can impact people’s lives most strongly. Not only can leaks lead to identity theft, they can lead to the publishing of information which leads to simple conflict which would not otherwise happen. In 2009, for instance, Wikileaks – which relies almost exclusively on leaks by government employees – published the membership list of the controversial British National Party, which remains online today and has led to firings.

Obamacare’s collection and storing of data on private citizens is wrong, but the fact that it is handled with such irresponsibility is unconscionable. The October 1 MNsure leak was a perfect illustration of this problem, and a situation which will likely be repeated with less benign results. As Democrats refuse to make any compromise whatsoever on Obamacare, it’s worthwhile to note the severe problems, both ideological and practical, of the system.

Benn Swann warned the public on this risk. See article here (http://benswann.com/obamacare-navigators-wont-have-to-pass-background-checks/). Unfortunately the possibility of American’s personal data being breached in this massive Government program has now become a reality.


If people only knew. I guess hospitals across the entire nation shouldn't be open for business because I see these kind of breaches with patient data every single day and there are big consequences for it. It happens more often than most people think and I doubt it gets much press.

[SnakeBoy]

I sold defined benefit plans in 2006 and a single female attar age would have cost 120ish so 135 for these type of plans is pretty good.

Well I currently pay $320/month to cover my wife and I (both 46) so that doesn't sound very good to me. I got a letter from blue cross telling me I can check out their new ACA plans and the cheapest for us was $600. They say I can keep the old policy but if I ever give it up I can't get it back.

[boutons_deux]

How A Rand Paul Republican From Alabama Learned To Love Obamacare (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/)


http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/joshua-pittman-200x300.jpg

Joshua Pittman is a 31-year-old self-employed videographer from Montgomery, Alabama. A libertarian Republican who voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and believes that Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) is the future of the GOP, Pittman sees Barack Obama’s presidency as a “failure” who hasn’t lived up to the nation’s expectations.

But on Tuesday morning, Pittman logged on to HealthCare.gov and after some initial glitches and delays, successfully enrolled in a Bronze-level Obamacare health insurance plan. “It took me all day, really,” he says with a laugh. “It kicked me out and told me you have to try again, but I knew what I was getting into with so many people exploring it.”

Though he initially supported repealing the law, Pittman became curious about Obamacare in the days and weeks before it launched. For years, he had gone uninsured, thinking he’d be able to “get over anything with a bandaid and a six pack of beer.”

But a lead poisoning incident earlier this year shook his confidence and bank account, leading him with tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. “I was a healthy person and it really depleted me financially, so it made me look at things in a different way than I would before. I understood the importance of people being insured.”

“I’ve seen first hand people hitting up the emergency room for free health care and then putting a burden on [everyone else] and that’s not something I would want to do, I want to take personal responsibility … By no means am I trying to take a government handout…it’s not a free handout, you’re paying for this health care, but it’s making it more accessible to more people.”

Asked what he liked about Obamacare, Pittman highlighted its prohibition against denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, noting that he wouldn’t be able to find coverage without it, and said that the policies offered in the marketplace seemed more affordable and comprehensive than those available to him on the individual market. “You may pay $18 a month [for a cheaper plan] and you’re missing a level of coverage. It’s not as easy as you’re going to pay this much a month,” he says.

Government data shows that premiums for an individual Blue Cross and Blue Shield Bronze-level plan in Montgomery County, Alabama averages $160 per month for a 27-year old. An older adult will pay $273 per month.

“As a Republican, I think [the GOP's repeal effort] is childish and I think this is the wrong way to lead… it’s babyish and I think as a party it just reflects negatively upon us,”

(http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/)“I think there are Republicans that are all types of people who are making these decisions and they’re not basing them on political party. It’s just common sense kind of things. And I think that’s the only way we’re going to make a change in this country if people start thinking on those lines, instead of political party lines.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/ (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/)

[boutons_deux]

Despite Website Glitches, These People Have Successfully Enrolled In Obamacare Coverage (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/03/2729251/obamacare-enrollment-online/)

Some state-run exchanges, on the other hand, are already issuing early reports of very high application and enrollment numbers (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/01/2710581/obamacare-enrollment-first-day-states/).

For instance, in Kentucky, state officials say that nearly 3,000 individuals and families (http://www.tristatehomepage.com/story/kentuckians-file-nearly-11000-applications-for-affordable-health-care-through-kynect/d/story/B39_BV16bk6KMV5X92A7cA) have enrolled for Obamacare plans.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/03/2729251/obamacare-enrollment-online/

[SnakeBoy]

I went to checkout what Obamacare would do for me


We have a lot of visitors on the site right now.
Please stay on this page.

We're working to make the experience better, and we don’t want you to lose your place in line. We’ll send you to the login page as soon as we can. Thanks for your patience!

20 minutes and counting...

[SnakeBoy]

Despite Website Glitches, These People Have Successfully Enrolled In Obamacare Coverage (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/03/2729251/obamacare-enrollment-online/)

Some state-run exchanges, on the other hand, are already issuing early reports of very high application and enrollment numbers (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/01/2710581/obamacare-enrollment-first-day-states/).

For instance, in Kentucky, state officials say that nearly 3,000 individuals and families (http://www.tristatehomepage.com/story/kentuckians-file-nearly-11000-applications-for-affordable-health-care-through-kynect/d/story/B39_BV16bk6KMV5X92A7cA) have enrolled for Obamacare plans.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/03/2729251/obamacare-enrollment-online/




lol 640,000 uninsured in Kentucky...how is .4% considered a very high enrollment rate?

[boutons_deux]

lol 640,000 uninsured in Kentucky...how is .4% consider a very high application rate?

they have six months to enroll.

I'm sure the sick, desperate ones will sign up quickly for peace of mind, while the others will sign up later, and with many waiting til last minute.

first day, in a RED FUCKING CONFEDERATE state (that elects assholes like Bitch McConnell WombatHair Paul)?

that sounds damn good to me, obliterating the Repug/Fox propaganda that they couldn't find ANYBODY that signed up :lol

[boutons_deux]

Although a rush of online applicants Tuesday morning temporarily overwhelmed the system, preventing many users from signing up for accounts, but they were still able to browse the site and examine their options without filing an application.


Technicians quickly brought two more servers online and added processing power to the state’s computers, which a technology program manager said added “50 percent more horsepower.”

The website was fully functional by 3 p.m. Tuesday, and more than 10,700 application had been initiated by 4 p.m. Wednesday.

Nearly 7,000 had been completed and almost 3,000 individuals or families enrolled in new coverage by late Wednesday afternoon.

An expert on health reform at the Kaiser Family Foundation said Kentucky’s site was the easiest one to use of those she examined this week, saying that it incorporated fewer “bells and whistles,” such as interactive features, and allowed consumers to browse plans without creating an account.


Kentucky’s governor said Sept. 27 in a widely shared New York Times opinion piece that his state had moved more quickly than most to implement Obamacare because its residents so badly needed access to affordable health care.

“Frankly, we can’t implement the Affordable Care Act fast enough,” wrote Gov. Steve Beshear (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/opinion/my-state-needs-obamacare-now.html?_r=0), a conservative Democrat. “As for naysayers, I’m offended by their partisan gamesmanship, as they continue to pour time, money and energy into overturning or defunding the Affordable Care Act. It’s shameful that these critics haven’t invested that same level of energy into trying to improve the health of our citizens.”

Beshear noted the law had withstood a Supreme Court challenge and urged critics to “get over it,” saying ACA would extend coverage to nearly all Kentuckians, create thousands of new jobs and inject millions into the state’s economy and budget.


But Kentucky’s Republican senators, Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul, fired back Thursday with a jointly signed column (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131003/EDIT02/310030034/McConnell-Paul-Kentuckians-not-buying-Obamacare) in the Kentucky Enquirer, accusing Beshear of trying to win friends in Manhattan.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/04/kentuckys-insurance-exchange-rolls-out-smoother-than-most-thanks-to-good-web-design/

KY-jelly-brained Senators, bitch slapped laughably by Dem Gov's ACA rollout success AND KY's citizens fast, successful uptake.

[RandomGuy]

You think the servers got overloaded? :lmao

Yes actually that was a large part of the problem, according to the people running the systems. Not hard to find in news accounts.

[ChumpDumper]

lol 640,000 uninsured in Kentucky...how is .4% considered a very high enrollment rate?In two buggy days?

Not bad tbh.

[AntiChrist]

Yes actually that was a large part of the problem, according to the people running the systems. Not hard to find in news accounts.


Poor planning

[TSA]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Obamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock

Lol

[boutons_deux]

Breitbart? really? :lol

"a New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/health/millions-of-poor-are-left-uncovered-by-health-law.html?_r=1&) analysis published on Wednesday found that Obamacare "will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help." "

out of context, typicially, deeply dishonest Breitbart scam. Those are RED STATES that refuse to take Fed $Bs to expand Medicaid.

[TSA]

https://m.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov?id=130163127032931&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2FBig-Government%2F2013%2F10%2F03%2FObamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock&_rdr

Boutons you can see the comments for yourself

[boutons_deux]

https://m.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov?id=130163127032931&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2FBig-Government%2F2013%2F10%2F03%2FObamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock&_rdr

Boutons you can see the comments for yourself

I was referring ONLY to Breitbart taking the NYtimes quote out of context in Breitbart's habitually dishonest manner.


The truth is that it's the Breitbart type of rightwing, sociopathic assholes in red states who are denying FREE Fed $Bs to help their mostly WHITE RURAL BUBBAS get health care.

[TSA]

Understood. Please refer to the Facebook comments from here on out, or ignore them if you wish. Wonder how long before .gov starts removing all the negative comments.

[boutons_deux]

Understood. Please refer to the Facebook comments from here on out, or ignore them if you wish. Wonder how long before .gov starts removing all the negative comments.

Am I supposed to be surprised that a program as enormous and complex will disappoint some people, will have problems at startup?

Also, Repugs going back to dirty Tricky Dick Nixon are infamous for dirty tricks. Prove to us those facebook posts aren't Repug/tea bagger paid operatives.

[Th'Pusher]

I like how TSA claims to be this moderate dude who's just passionate about guns yet trolls brietbart and the blaze to get emotionally riled up

[AntiChrist]

Lulz



http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Teko9k_zNsY

[AntiChrist]

I like how TSA claims to be this moderate dude who's just passionate about guns yet trolls brietbart and the blaze to get emotionally riled up


I read HuffPo fairly regularly. That doesn't mean I'm a raging leftist -- far from it.

[AntiChrist]

Looks like they found someone who was able to sign up. HuffPo is pretty excited about it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/obamacare-launch_n_4037136.html


Turns out, he will pay $175/month, about 18% of his $11,500 annual salary. Oh, and he's an Organizing for Action volunteer -- lol. Sucess story.



Appears that this kid never signed up. Oops.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/04/is-obamacares-celebrity-enrollee-actually-signed-up/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Looks like Darrin is out looking for any anecdote to confirm his bias. Way to keep an open mind. It's really too bad you have the right to vote.

[angrydude]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087965


As few as 1 in 100 applications on the federal exchange contains enough information to enroll the applicant in a plan, several insurance industry sources told CNBC on Friday. Some of the problems involve how the exchange's software collects and verifies an applicant's data.


"It doesn't surprise me—I've heard similar numbers," said Dan Mendelson, CEO of consulting firm Avalere Health, when asked about the 1-in-100 rate that Infogix cited.

"This is not a traffic issue," Mendelson said. "Right now, the systems aren't working."


Experts said that if Healthcare.gov's success rate doesn't improve within the next month or so, federal officials could face a situation in January in which relatively large numbers of people believe they have coverage starting that month, but whose enrollment applications are have not been processed.

lol

[boutons_deux]

The exchanges are kludges, another instance of "free market" "for profit" health insurance Kludgeocracy, but Kludgeocracy is what corporate America does best, inefficient for clients, expensive (for the kludge victims), shitty products.

[boutons_deux]

As a direct result of Repugs sabotaging ACA:

Obamacare meets extra resistance in Oklahoma

Hurdles including a scarcity of accurate information about the Affordable Care Act have left many Oklahomans in underserved rural areas like Choctaw County confused about whether to sign up.

"They say it's affordable, but when you ain't got no money, nothing's affordable," said 55-year-old Paul Bush of Midwest City, who accompanied his sister to a clinic for care last week. While he supports efforts in Congress (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/u.s.-congress-ORGOV0000131.topic) to kill the program — "Heck yeah," he said — he wasn't happy about Fallin's decision to reject the Medicaid expansion: "The state could really have used the money."

Bush's sister, Teresa Springer, might have qualified for care under a Medicaid expansion, but she supported Fallin's decision. :lol ( can't do much about masochistic ignorance like that! )

Springer, who has applied for disability assistance, said she worried that fines related to the healthcare law would cut into her disability checks at the same time that some Republicans (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/parties-movements/republican-party-ORGOV0000004.topic) in Congress were talking about cutting food stamps (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-ORGOV000323.topic).

"That's all I have," she said after a visit to the Mary Mahoney Memorial Health Center in Spencer, Okla. "I'm going to either pay my bills or not eat." The law, she added, "is hurting everybody."

(no, your willful or duped ignorance is hurting yourself)

In a back office at the clinic, Debbie Haller shakes her head when she hears those kinds of misconceptions about the law. It will fall to counselors like Haller, the clinic's development coordinator, to clear up the facts about fines and eligibility.

In Springer's case, she may qualify for federal tax credit subsidies, which are available to individuals earning less than $46,000 annually and families earning less than $94,000. If she cannot afford coverage because the premium is more than 8% of income, she would be exempt from any fine.

But those are complicated concepts to explain to the population served by the Mary Mahoney clinic, which is part of a network of seven clinics statewide that is known as Community Health Centers Inc. Haller noted that a sizable portion of patients they serve could not read or write. ( Oklahoma! :lol )

"A lot of them don't see the benefit," she said in an interview. "People here are among the unhealthiest in the nation. The need is there … but the only thing that has been in the paper is negative."
Leaders in the two consortiums that received federal money for a public education campaign in Oklahoma were still in the early phase of training as residents became eligible to sign up for insurance this week.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obamacare-oklahoma-20131004,0,1239453.story?page=2

repeat ad nauseam in all the red states, no doubt

[boutons_deux]

Animosity Towards Affordable Care Act Is Hard To Fathom

all the other industrialized democracies ensure that the vast majority of their citizens have access to medical care, and none of those nations have gone up in smoke. They endure, with populations who are at least as healthy as Americans and who pay much less for their doctor’s visits and medicines.

conservatives have railed against an expanding social safety net at least as far back as Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal, which birthed the Social Security system to prevent old-age penury. The campaign to create Medicare brought similar warnings of dire consequences, with no less a true-blue conservative than Ronald Reagan insisting that it would put the country on the slippery slope to socialism.

In a recorded message, he told listeners that if they didn’t oppose the creation of government-sponsored health care for retirees, “one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children, and our children’s children, what it once was like in America when men were free.”

As you know, none of those dire predictions came to pass, and both Social Security and Medicare are wildly popular. Still, that hasn’t stopped a certain mind-bending cognitive dissonance: Many in the Republican Party’s Tea Party camp, where Obamacare is regarded as the devil’s own handiwork, are themselves beneficiaries of Medicare, which is closer to socialism than virtually any other government program. Go figure.

Among conservative intellectuals, it’s popular to pretend that Republicans will eventually replace Obamacare with a much better program that would promote affordable health care without any of the alleged flaws of the current law.

But the most honest among them admit that congressional Republicans have no current plan to replace Obamacare, only to repeal it.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/animosity-towards-affordable-care-act-is-hard-to-fathom/

[boutons_deux]

GOP Biggest Fear Occurring–Republicans Loving Obamacare (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/03/1243640/-GOP-Biggest-Fear-Occurring-Republicans-Loving-Obamacare)


Anyone wondering why the Right Wing Tea Party Republicans are in a frenzy, one need only see what is happening now that the reality of the Affordable Care Act is emerging. The lies they told are coming back to bite them.

They are attempting to discourage young American citizens (http://egbertowillies.com/2013/10/03/republicans-encouraging-young-people-opt-obamacare-video/) from going to the exchanges by telling them Obamacare will either be too expensive or an intrusion from the government. Good things are happening however. Inasmuch as the Right Wing is being outright destructive with the nation’s economy in the attempt to derail Obamacare, empirical and factual data is proven to be a hindrance to their obstructionist tactics.

The State Health Bureaucracy in Texas is actually promoting Obamacare (http://egbertowillies.com/?s=Lupus). That is a feat in its own right. On October 1st, the Obamacare health exchange servers were overwhelmed (http://egbertowillies.com/2013/10/03/good-news-obamacare-exchanges-gets-huge-traffic/) because of the inordinately large number of people accessing it.

The coup de grace however is the stories that are now coming out of Republicans going onto the exchanges and realizing that they had been lied to. This was the case with Republican Butch Matthews, a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas. ThinkProgress reports that,


Butch Matthews is a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas who used to wake up every morning at 4 A.M. to deliver canned beverages to retailers before retiring in 2010. A lifelong Republican, he was heavily skeptical of the Affordable Care Act when it first passed. “I did not think that Obamacare was going to be a good plan, I did not think that it was going to help me at all,” he told ThinkProgress over the phone.

But after doing a little research, Matthews eventually realized how much the law could help him. And on Tuesday, his local Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) provider confirmed that he would be able to buy a far better plan than his current policy while saving at least $13,000 per year through Arkansas’ Obamacare marketplace. [Source (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/02/2721501/butch-matthews-obamacare-convert/)]


Turns out pre-Obamacare, Matthews was paying $1069.per month with a $10,000 deductible. Matthews’ doctor visits went from a co-pay of $150 to $8. Matthews has a simple message to all Americans. He says,


I would tell them to learn more about it before they start talking bad about it,” he noted. “Be more informed, get more information, take your time and study and not just go by just what you hear on one side or the other. Actually check the facts on it. [Source (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/02/2721501/butch-matthews-obamacare-convert/)]


This story is not unlike Clint Murphy’s story (http://egbertowillies.com/2013/08/19/see-why-this-republican-operative-became-obamacare-supporter-clint-murphy/). Murphy is a 38 year old Republican operative. He worked for Republican US Senator Paul Coverdell in the 1990s, Republican Casey Cagle in 2006, John McCain in 2008, and Republican Karen Handel’s gubernatorial campaign in 2010. He has come to his senses and simply could not wait for the exchanges to open.

Neither of these guys has given up on their Conservative ideology. They are Republicans. The difference is unlike Right Wing Tea Party Republicans, they are honest and pragmatic. They are willing to let the truth lead. The Tea Party realizes that their credibility is coming to an end for most Americans.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/03/1243640/-GOP-Biggest-Fear-Occurring-Republicans-Loving-Obamacare

[boutons_deux]

No, The Fact That People Aren’t Immediately Signing Up For Obamacare Doesn’t Mean It’s Failing (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/05/2737981/no-the-fact-that-more-people-arent-enrolling-in-obamacare-doesnt-mean-that-its-failing-2/)


So the best example we have is actually Massachusetts, where they have a similar program. And what happened there is that the actual sign-up rate started fairly slowly, partly because people didn’t want to pay three or four months ahead of when they would get insurance. But the interest, their ability to window shop, identify what’s going to work for them, what suits their pocketbook, what kinds of tax credits they can get — that’s already happening. And what we know is that for at least 60 percent of the people who visit that site, they’re going to be able to get good-quality health insurance for less than their cellphone or cable bill. And that is something that is — a lot of people, understandably, recognize is going to give them the kind of security they haven’t had before.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Commonwealth-Care-Enrollment.jpg

more than half of the seniors who signed up for Medicare Part D didn’t do so until after the initial enrollment period and enrolled despite the Bush administration’s well-publicized initial glitches in extending coverage to low-income beneficiaries.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/05/2737981/no-the-fact-that-more-people-arent-enrolling-in-obamacare-doesnt-mean-that-its-failing-2/

[Bender]

the POS website was completely broken from the get go. took me 3 days to even be able to start an account, but I have never been able to log in.

[AntiChrist]

OMG, this is sad



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiZsOOu4ov8

[boutons_deux]

OMG, this is sad

but you're thrilled, amused, and gloating over the startup difficulties.

[spurraider21]

what i find hilarious is how strung to party lines some of you are. those who associate themselves with the democratic party seem to have the urge to defend every single action every taken by a democrat, even those that are glaringly wrong, and same shit with republiconservatives. get your heads out of your asses

[boutons_deux]

Dems actually try to govern, so I give them slack, not defend every single action. (I'd love to know which PRIVATE FREE-MARKET For-PROFIT CONTRACTOR fucked up the Federal exchange software.)

Repugs intentionally, willfuly misgovern when they have the chance, and try to fuck the Dems' attempt to govern, so I say fuck 'em.

[spurraider21]

the polarization of the parties makes it too black or white. its gotten to the point where i'd be embarrassed to actually associate myself with one of them. it also fucks up the presidential elections, since every democrat running for office will be a carbon copy of the last, and same with republicans. they have to adhere strictly to bullshit party lines or else their own party won't support them. party lines are whats fucking congress right now. i'm sure there are some dems that aren't pleased with obamacare, but they voted for it to adhere to party lines, and vice versa with republicans

[boutons_deux]

the polarization of the parties makes it too black or white. its gotten to the point where i'd be embarrassed to actually associate myself with one of them. it also fucks up the presidential elections, since every democrat running for office will be a carbon copy of the last, and same with republicans. they have to adhere strictly to bullshit party lines or else their own party won't support them. party lines are whats fucking congress right now. i'm sure there are some dems that aren't pleased with obamacare, but they voted for it to adhere to party lines, and vice versa with republicans

the smash-mouth, divisive polarization is almost completely due to the VRWC and Repugs starting with Pappy Bush's campaign, and then really accelerated after Clinton won in 92 (unending witch hunt for 8 years) then Gingrich's gang got control of Congress in 94 and shut down the govt because Clinton wouldn't let Gingrich come to the front of the plane and made him get off out the back door.

There's simply no equivalence between the today's tea baggers on the right and any Dems on the left, NONE!

The Repugs are purifying, driving out any Repug that isn't extreme. NOTHING like that on the Dem side. Moderate and moderate-right Repugs are retiring and being primared by Kock Bros if they don't vote with the tea bagger assholes.

[SA210]

.
"A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasizes lowering costs." -Obama 2008


'if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house, the reason they don't buy a house is they don't have the money'" -Obama 2008



2008 Obama TV ads against mandates

"Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan? It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't,"


At one campaign stop, Clinton waived the mailers and declared, "Shame on you, Barack Obama!"


"Meet me in Ohio," she added. "Let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign."


:lmao:rollin:rollin sheeple

[spurraider21]

Lol of course blaming all problems on the other party

[boutons_deux]

Lol of course blaming all problems on the other party

give me examples of extreme Dems who correspond to these assholes:

Broun
Gohmert
Bachmann
Cruz
Issa
Cantor
Steve King
etc

[AntiChrist]

give me examples of extreme Dems who correspond to these assholes:

Broun
Gohmert
Bachmann
Cruz
Issa
Cantor
Steve King
etc



Is it extreme to vote against raising the debt limit?

[SA210]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a19wqI0EdDc

[spurraider21]

Is it extreme to break records for money borrowed and massively increase expenditures as our debt grows exponentially?

[boutons_deux]

Is it extreme to vote against raising the debt limit?

yes, it has never been blocked EVER before 2011. raised 7 TIMES under dubya without a wimper

[boutons_deux]

Is it extreme to break records for money borrowed and massively increase expenditures as our debt grows exponentially?

debt is not growing exponentially, try another lie.

[AntiChrist]

yes, it has never been blocked EVER before 2011. raised 7 TIMES under dubya without a wimper


Then what say you about this...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp


Obama voted against it -- and so did every single Democrat in the Senate


Extreme, indeed


EDIT> What qualifies as a whimper?

[boutons_deux]

Then what say you about this...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp


Obama voted against it -- and so did every single Democrat in the Senate


Extreme, indeed

but the DEMS didn't EXTORT the country into default

[AntiChrist]

but the DEMS didn't EXTORT the country into default


There's only one group saying default is even a possibility.


By the way, I love how you guys have conveniently forgotten pre-Obama history.

[AntiChrist]

Here's that 2006 vote:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00054#top


Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---52



Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)

Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)

Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)





NAYs ---48



Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)

Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)

Lincoln (D-AR)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)







Gawt damned Extremisssstsss

[boutons_deux]

Here's that 2006 vote:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00054#top


Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---52


Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)




NAYs ---48


Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)






Gawt damned Extremisssstsss

the minority lost, democracy respected, in total contrast to this week's Repug extorting extremists

[AntiChrist]

the minority lost, democracy respected, in total contrast to this week's Repug extorting extremists


I know you keep trying to sell the idea that these "repugs" are extremist nutjobs, but it's not working.

[AntiChrist]

Well, unless you concede that the Dems who did the EXACT SAME THING (including lord POTUS) are also extremist nutjobs.


Full disclosure -- I'm ready for this political theater to be over with so my investments will stop tanking.

[boutons_deux]

Well, unless you concede that the Dems who did the EXACT SAME THING (including lord POTUS) are also extremist nutjobs.


Full disclosure -- I'm ready for this political theater to be over with so my investments will stop tanking.

Dems lost the vote, they conceded. THEY DID NOT SHUTDOWN THE DUBYA GOVT NOR THREATEN TO DEFAULT THE USA

[SA210]

Jon Stewart Grills Kathleen Sebelius On Obamacare Issues, Makes Strong Case For Single-Payer Video in link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/kathleen-sebelius-jon-stewart_n_4063267.html?ref=topbar




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a19wqI0EdDc

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The exchange is the location where private firms can go to post competing prices for health insurance right? Is that what part of Obamacare Darrin is looking for proof it is failing?

[Th'Pusher]

Well, unless you concede that the Dems who did the EXACT SAME THING (including lord POTUS) are also extremist nutjobs.


Full disclosure -- I'm ready for this political theater to be over with so my investments will stop tanking.
Do you really not see the difference of what happened then with what is happening now? Honest question.

[AntiChrist]

Do you really not see the difference of what happened then with what is happening now? Honest question.

You seem to know, so go ahead.

[Th'Pusher]

You seem to know, so go ahead.

The vote was completely inconsequential and had absolutely no chance of negatively affecting the economy, shutting down govt, etc. it was nothing more than a symbolic gesture. That's nothing like what's going on now, which is why the tea bags are being called extremist. Sorry you don't like your fringe heroes being called names, but that's what they are...

[AntiChrist]

The vote was completely inconsequential and had absolutely no chance of negatively affecting the economy, shutting down govt, etc. it was nothing more than a symbolic gesture. That's nothing like what's going on now, which is why the tea bags are being called extremist. Sorry you don't like your fringe heroes being called names, but that's what they are...

Oh, it was just a symbolic vote. I get it. Thanks.

[boutons_deux]

Health Exchange Tech Problems Point To A Thornier IssueThe primary contractor behind the federal health exchange software is a global firm called CGI Federal, which didn't want to comment for this story. Johnson says it's not that CGI or other contractors behind healthcare.gov are bad. They're probably just not the best, because the best people at these tech solutions don't bother applying.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/230424841/health-exchange-tech-problems-point-to-a-thornier-issue?sc=17&f=

[Th'Pusher]

Oh, it was just a symbolic vote. I get it. Thanks.
No problem. Put a little thought into it next time instead of letting your emotions drive your responses and you may be able to come up with the answers yourself.

[Th'Pusher]

Health Exchange Tech Problems Point To A Thornier Issue

The primary contractor behind the federal health exchange software is a global firm called CGI Federal, which didn't want to comment for this story. Johnson says it's not that CGI or other contractors behind healthcare.gov are bad. They're probably just not the best, because the best people at these tech solutions don't bother applying.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/230424841/health-exchange-tech-problems-point-to-a-thornier-issue?sc=17&f=

They're the best at lobbying.

[boutons_deux]

California exchange processes 16,000 applications

Officials with California's health insurance exchange said Tuesday that more than 16,300 applications were processed during the marketplace's first five days of operation, but they did not say how many people actually purchased coverage for 2014.

Covered California officials released the figure in the first of what they say will be a series of weekly updates on the number of applications and calls received by the insurance exchange.

An additional 27,300 California households have started to fill out an application. Applications can cover more than one person, such as a spouse or child.

Covered California executive director Peter Lee described the initial interest in the new health coverage as "phenomenal."

"These are big numbers, and they're proof of the pent-up demand for coverage that is here in California and is also across the nation," he told reporters during a news conference.

State exchange officials had anticipated "very low" enrollment during the first week, but did not have an internal projection for how many applications they might initially receive, Lee said.

http://m.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/california-exchange-processes-16000-applications/Content?oid=2600503

[boutons_deux]

Of the countless reasons that congressional Republicans hate the Affordable Care Act enough to shut down the government, the most politically potent is the claim that it will do untold damage to the economy and cripple small companies.

The G.O.P.’s case hinges on the employer mandate, which requires companies with fifty or more full-time employees to provide health insurance. It also regulates the kind of insurance that companies can offer: insurance has to cover at least sixty per cent of costs, and premiums can’t be more than 9.5 per cent of employees’ income. Companies that don’t offer insurance will pay a penalty. Republicans argue that this will hurt companies’ profits, forcing them to stop hiring and to cut workers’ hours, in order to stay below the fifty-employee threshold.

The story is guaranteed to feed the fears of small-business owners. But the overwhelming majority of American businesses—ninety-six per cent—have fewer than fifty employees. The employer mandate doesn’t touch them. And more than ninety per cent of the companies above that threshold already offer health insurance. Only three per cent are in the zone (between forty and seventy-five employees) where the threshold will be an issue. Even if these firms get more cautious about hiring—and there’s little evidence that they will—the impact on the economy would be small.

Meanwhile, the likely benefits of Obamacare for small businesses are enormous. To begin with, it’ll make it easier for people to start their own companies—which has always been a risky proposition in the U.S., because you couldn’t be sure of finding affordable health insurance. As John Arensmeyer, who heads the advocacy group Small Business Majority, and is himself a former small-business owner, told me, “In the U.S., we pride ourselves on our entrepreneurial spirit, but we’ve had this bizarre disincentive in the system that’s kept people from starting new businesses.”

Purely for the sake of health insurance, people stay in jobs they aren’t suited to—a phenomenon that economists call “job lock.” “With the new law, job lock goes away,” Arensmeyer said. “Anyone who wants to start a business can do so independent of the health-care costs.” Studies show that people who are freed from job lock (for instance, when they start qualifying for Medicare) are more likely to undertake something entrepreneurial, and one recent study projects that Obamacare could enable 1.5 million people to become self-employed.

The U.S. likes to think of itself as friendly to small businesses. But, as a 2009 study by the economists John Schmitt and Nathan Lane documented, our small-business sector is among the smallest in the developed world, and has one of the lowest rates of self-employment. One reason is that we’ve never had anything like national health insurance. In a saner world, changing this would be a reform that the “party of small business” would celebrate.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2013/10/14/131014ta_talk_surowiecki

[boobie4three]

Liberals Mugged By ObamaCare Reality

Posted 10/08/2013 06:35 PM ET

Irony: While President Obama refuses to consider any delay of ObamaCare, his liberal base is waking up to the fact that "free" health care is awfully expensive. And that they're the ones getting stuck with the bill.
This would be funny if it weren't so hazardous to the country. The news is full of stories of people — many of them ObamaCare supporters — who are only now discovering what Democrats managed to impose on the country.
A story in the San Francisco Chronicle, "Health Insurance Shoppers Suffer Sticker Shock," notes how one resident, Shelly Ross, "was looking forward to" ObamaCare "because she was hoping to get a better deal."
Instead, Ross discovered that "every plan is going to cost more than what I pay now."

The story features another San Francisco resident who learned that Kaiser was canceling his existing policy because it doesn't comply with ObamaCare's myriad insurance mandates. Kaiser's replacement policy that does comply will cost him $3,672 more a year.
Then there's Michael Yount, a resident of Charlotte, N.C., who told the Christian Science Monitor about how he and his wife face a threefold increase in their premiums — more than $8,900 a year. That's for a policy with the same deductible.
So Yount is planning to drop coverage altogether next year, showing how ObamaCare could easily make the nation's uninsured problem worse, not better.
But as far as delicious irony goes, nothing comes close to the story of Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura, self-described believers in ObamaCare who are now under attack by their own creation.
"Like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance," the San Jose Mercury News reports, "they were floored last week when they opened their bills."
ObamaCare will drive Vinson's annual premiums up by $1,800 and Waschura's by an incredible $10,000.
"I really don't like the Republican tactics," Waschura told the paper, "but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this."
Vinson, however, takes the Mugged by ObamaCare Reality prize. "Of course, I want people to have health care," she said. "I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

Welcome to the party, Vin. And say "Hi" to all those workers who've had their hours cut or their jobs eliminated because of ObamaCare's employer mandate, the union leaders who are now furious with the law they helped create, and the local government officials now chafing at ObamaCare's costs.

Then, after you've recovered from your overdose of Big Government, maybe you can help organize all your liberal friends to publicly protest this misbegotten law.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/100813-674333-liberals-mugged-by-obamacare-costs.htm

And to think we still have idiots here saying 0bamacare will be the best thing since sliced bread.

[Clipper Nation]

People are shocked that a government program sucks ass? :lol

[boutons_deux]

""free" health care"

who said ACA was free health care?

the uninsured already get free health care in ERs paid by taxpayers and inflated premiums for the insured, and Repugs got nothing to say about.

[Th'Pusher]

Oh, it was just a symbolic vote. I get it. Thanks.

The persistence of this point of view helps explain how raising the debt limit transformed over the past three years turned from a largely pro forma exercise in grandstanding into a high-stakes game of political chicken with the fate of the global economy hanging in the balance.


The party out of the White House has long used debt limit votes as opportunities to score political points by arguing for spending restraint. Obama himself did this while a senator in 2006, voting against raising the debt ceiling, something the president now says he regrets. The debt limit deniers often point to that vote when making their case.


But these votes were generally done with an understanding that they were symbolic and that a debt limit increase would still pass. That cozy consensus is now pretty much gone, blown away by tea party candidates elected in 2010.


http://m.politico.com/iphone/story/1013/98041.html

[AntiChrist]

The persistence of this point of view helps explain how raising the debt limit transformed over the past three years turned from a largely pro forma exercise in grandstanding into a high-stakes game of political chicken with the fate of the global economy hanging in the balance.


The party out of the White House has long used debt limit votes as opportunities to score political points by arguing for spending restraint. Obama himself did this while a senator in 2006, voting against raising the debt ceiling, something the president now says he regrets. The debt limit deniers often point to that vote when making their case.


But these votes were generally done with an understanding that they were symbolic and that a debt limit increase would still pass. That cozy consensus is now pretty much gone, blown away by tea party candidates elected in 2010.


http://m.politico.com/iphone/story/1013/98041.html




http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11699012/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/administration-asks-congress-debt-limit/





WASHINGTON (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=WASHINGTON&sty=h&form=msdate) — Treasury Secretary John Snow notified Congress on Monday that the administration has now taken “all prudent and legal actions,” including tapping certain government retirement funds, to keep from hitting the $8.2 trillion national debt limit.
In a letter to Congress, Snow urged lawmakers to pass a new debt ceiling immediately to avoid the nation’s first-ever default on its obligations.
“I know that you share the president’s and my commitment to maintaining the full faith and credit of the U.S. government,” Snow said in his letter to leaders in the House and Senate. (damn, this sounds familiar)

Treasury officials, briefing congressional aides last week, said that the government will run out of maneuvering room to keep from exceeding the current limit sometime during the week of March 20.

Snow in his letter notified lawmakers that Treasury would begin tapping the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund, which Treasury officials said would provide a “few billion” dollars in extra borrowing ability.

Treasury officials also announced that on Friday they had used the $15 billion in the Exchange Stabilization Fund, a reserve that the Treasury secretary has that is normally used to smooth out volatile movements in the value of the dollar in currency markets.

Treasury has also been taking investments out of a $65.3 billion government pension fund known as the G-fund.


Officials have said that once the debt limit is raised, the investments taken out of the pension funds would be replaced and any lost interest payments would be made up. The formal title for the G-fund is the Government Securities Investment Fund of the Federal Employees Retirement System.

Democrats hope to use the upcoming congressional debate over raising the debt limit to highlight what they see as the failings of the administration’s economic program with its emphasis on sweeping tax cuts.

An actual default on the debt, a situation when the government misses making payments to current bondholders, is a doomsday scenario considered highly unlikely given what it would do to the government’s credit rating. (equally unlikely today)

It is expected that after intense debate, Congress will approve an increase in the current $8.18 trillion debt limit by perhaps $781 billion.

The administration has sent Congress a budget that on paper would cut the deficit in half by 2009, the year President Bush leaves office.

But Democrats contend the administration met its deficit-reduction goal only by leaving out major spending items such as the full costs of the Iraq war. They say the deficit will not improve unless Bush abandons his effort to make his first-term tax cuts permanent.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., said last week that under President Bush the total of the deficits has increased by $3 trillion, a 40 percent increase from where the national debt — the total of previous deficits — stood when Bush took office in January 2001.

[AntiChrist]

California exchange processes 16,000 applications



Damn. It's no wonder the servers are melting down. :lmao

[Th'Pusher]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11699012/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/administration-asks-congress-debt-limit/
I don't know why this is so difficult for you to process, but the difference is that in 2006, you did not have democrats denying that not raising the debt limit would be catastrophic for the economy. You have a number of republicans making that claim today. These are the people being labeled extremists. They're extremists. Sorry you don't like the label.

[AntiChrist]

I don't know why this is so difficult for you to process, but the difference is that in 2006, you did not have democrats denying that not raising the debt limit would be catastrophic for the economy. You have a number of republicans making that claim today. These are the people being labeled extremists. They're extremists. Sorry you don't like the label.


So, they knew it was "catastrophic", but unanimously voted against raising the debt limit (symbolically, of course).

By your own definition, Obama and his fellow dems were extremists. Sorry you don't like the label.

[boutons_deux]

"The party out of the White House has long used debt limit votes"

we don't know what, yet, but the Repugs will come up with another item unrelated to the debt limit to extort action from the Dems, just as killing ACA is totally unrelated to the budget with the Dems totally caved to the Repug budget request. this Repug shit is different from making "political points", it's outright extortion.

[AntiChrist]

"The party out of the White House has long used debt limit votes"

we don't know what, yet, but the Repugs will come up with another item unrelated to the debt limit ...




It's called, business as usual. There was actually history before lord Obama became POTUS. You should look into it.

[boutons_deux]

It's called, business as usual. There was actually history before lord Obama became POTUS. You should look into it.

which debt limit or budget fight had the Dems demanding the destruction of a major Federal program unrelated to the debt limit or budget number?

[AntiChrist]

which debt limit or budget fight had the Dems demanding the destruction of a major Federal program unrelated to the debt limit or budget number?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/19/obamas-claim-that-non-budget-items-have-never-been-attached-to-the-debt-ceiling/

[RandomGuy]

Is it extreme to vote against raising the debt limit?

All things held equal, yes.

Given the impact to the economy, it is quite extreme.

[RandomGuy]

which debt limit or budget fight had the Dems demanding the destruction of a major Federal program unrelated to the debt limit or budget number?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/19/obamas-claim-that-non-budget-items-have-never-been-attached-to-the-debt-ceiling/

That isn't an answer to his question.

[Th'Pusher]

So, they knew it was "catastrophic", but unanimously voted against raising the debt limit (symbolically, of course).

By your own definition, Obama and his fellow dems were extremists. Sorry you don't like the label.

Wow. You're actually pretty dense. Denying that failure to raise the debt celing will have catastrophic effects on the economy is the extreme point of view. Knowing the debt ceiling increase will pass with or without your vote and voting against it is a protest vote. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what else to tell you man. You just lack basic reasoning skills.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/19/obamas-claim-that-non-budget-items-have-never-been-attached-to-the-debt-ceiling/

still bullshit.

Trying to pass a bill attached to debt limit is totally different from killing an already passed MAJOR LAW (not a proposed bill), 4 years old, that has been ruled Constitutional and approved by a national "referendum" in the 2012 that defeated Bishop Gecko and his kill-ACA platform plank.

[AntiChrist]

which debt limit or budget fight had the Dems demanding the destruction of a major Federal program unrelated to the debt limit or budget number?

That isn't an answer to his question.


They aren't demanding its destruction.

[boutons_deux]

They aren't demanding its destruction.

defunding ACA, effectively destroying it, is what the VRWC/Repug/tea baggers have been targeting for 3 years and $200M and is what they DEMANDED until even Cruz The Cracked admitted it was impossible.

[AntiChrist]

defunding ACA, effectively destroying it, is what the VRWC/Repug/tea baggers have been targeting for 3 years and $200M and is what they DEMANDED until even Cruz The Cracked admitted it was impossible.

They want to delay the individual mandate -- just the way Obama delayed the employer mandate.

[AntiChrist]

They should've delayed the ACA implementation, tbh. Evidently, $634 million and three years advance notice wasn't sufficient.

[boutons_deux]

They want to delay the individual mandate -- just the way Obama delayed the employer mandate.

the employers said they weren't ready, but the individual mandate is fundamental to the ACA and NOT NEGOTIABLE

[AntiChrist]

Jon Stewart was asking the same "extreme" question -- over and over and over, with no real answer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a19wqI0EdDc

[AntiChrist]

They should've delayed the ACA implementation, tbh. Evidently, $634 million and three years advance notice wasn't sufficient.

Crazy talk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d88Nt7SNe4M&feature=player_embedded

[George Gervin's Afro]

So how many people signing up would it take for darrins errr antichrist to say the rollout was a success? I assume you have a number in mind considering you started the thread about the number of folks signing up... when is it considered a success?

[AntiChrist]

So how many people signing up would it take for darrins errr antichrist to say the rollout was a success? I assume you have a number in mind considering you started the thread about the number of folks signing up... when is it considered a success?

24 million enrolled. That's only half of the 48 million uninsured, so I'm being generous.

[George Gervin's Afro]

24 million enrolled. That's only half of the 48 million uninsured, so I'm being generous.

in the first week?

[AntiChrist]

in the first week?

Of course not. But at the current rate...? Yikes.

[boutons_deux]

24 million enrolled. That's only half of the 48 million uninsured, so I'm being generous.

RomneyCare took almost 2 years to reach asymptotic level of enrollments. Same with the Repugs DISASTROUS launches of corporate welfare, unfunded Medicare Part D and unfunded Medicare Advantage

[AntiChrist]

RomneyCare took almost 2 years to reach asymptotic level of enrollments. Same with the Repugs DISASTROUS launches of corporate welfare, unfunded Medicare Part D and unfunded Medicare Advantage

Do you know what an asymptote is?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Of course not. But at the current rate...? Yikes.

so then you started this thread prematurely? or are you just a partisan clown?

[AntiChrist]

so then you started this thread prematurely? or are you just a partisan clown?

What started prematurely was the rollout of ACA.

[boutons_deux]

Do you know what an asymptote is?

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Commonwealth-Care-Enrollment.jpg

[George Gervin's Afro]

What started prematurely was the rollout of ACA.

so this is a dumb premature thread...

[AntiChrist]

A rambling, Greasy Wasserman Schultz clears things up.

And she throws another "GOP are arsonists" analogy in, just for good measure.

8SG3T9YkAXE

[Th'Pusher]

A rambling, Greasy Wasserman Schultz clears things up.

And she throws another "GOP are arsonists" analogy in, just for

I find it amusing how upset you get over people calling the tea bags extremists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. you're really emotionally attached to the tea potty, huh?

[AntiChrist]

I find it amusing how upset you get over people calling the tea bags extremists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. you're really emotionally attached to the tea potty, huh?

Actually, I think a lot of them are ass clowns, but I don't think they are terrorists, arsonists, anarchists, etc.

[angrydude]

so this is a dumb premature thread...

Yes. Completely out of line. What type of jackass would create a thread about this.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/10/07/health-care-insurance-exchanges-obamacare-editorials-debates/2940207/


If you have purchased health coverage on the federal government's new Obamacare marketplace, about a dozen or so reporters would like to speak with you. We promise we won't take up too much of your time!
We just need to find you first.
The federal government has said that somewhere out in this vast country of 313 million people, where 48 million lack insurance coverage, someone has managed to sign up for health insurance on the federally-run marketplaces. As of yet, we haven't tracked this person - or these people - down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/03/the-white-house-says-people-have-bought-obamacare-we-havent-met-them-quite-yet/


Alas, the administration managed to turn the experience for most of those visitors into a nightmare. Websites crashed, refused to load, or offered bizarre and incomprehensible choices. Even though the system was shut down for repairs over the weekend, Monday's early reports continued to suggest an epic screw-up.

Park said the administration expected 50,000 to 60,000 simultaneous users. It got 250,000. Compare that with the similarly rocky debut seven years ago of exchanges to obtain Medicare drug coverage. The Bush administration projected 20,000 simultaneous users and built capacity for 150,000.

That's the difference between competence and incompetence.

The too-much-demand excuse also is less than the full story. In addition to grossly underestimating demand, the administration and its contractors seem to have made mistakes in building the websites. The system for verifying consumer identity has had persistent problems, as have pull-down menus

[AntiChrist]

ACA rollout 'Nothing short of disastrous'

81DBEKlrJsM

[Th'Pusher]

Wow. Looks like Barry may need to get in there and code that system up himself. Clearly those private contractors don't have a clue as to what they're doing.

[boutons_deux]

I wonder if there's any penalty for CGI General?

http://www.cgi.com/en/US-General-Services-Administration-selects-CGI-transition-public-websites-cloud

http://www.cgi.com/en/us-federal/services-solutions

[boutons_deux]

looks like CGI didn't fuckup only the federal exchanges

BUILDER OF STATE’S HEALTH CARE EXCHANGE MISSES KEY DEADLINEShttp://vtdigger.org/2013/09/27/builder-states-health-care-exchange-misses-key-deadliness/

[AntiChrist]

It's too bad the defunder caucus has taken attention away from this disastrous rollout.

[AntiChrist]

Beautiful code

https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/global/en_US/registration.js

[AntiChrist]

Five extremely determined people were able to sign up in Iowa. FIVE

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20131010/NEWS/310100059/1001/?nclick_check=1

[boutons_deux]

Five extremely determined people were able to sign up in Iowa. FIVE

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20131010/NEWS/310100059/1001/?nclick_check=1

gloating, schadenfreude over big problems. What's your suggestion?

[boutons_deux]

It's too bad the defunder caucus has taken attention away from this disastrous rollout.

IT'S ALL BAD.

Repugs, tea baggers, libertarians fucking up govt, blocking all progress is a can't-lose proposition, even if they don't get exactly the rules, laws, regs, repeals they want.

Their philosophy is that all govt that helps the 99% is bad, so fucking up govt, mis-governing is always acceptable. ONLY for-profit companies are can possible do any good.

These fabricated crises are just a tactic in pre-occupying Congress and WH so no real progress, no real problems get solved, the Repug spurious proof that govt is bad.

[angrydude]

Silicon Angle: The Obama Care Website. The Biggest Tech Gaggle Ever?
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/10/10/the-obamacare-website-the-biggest-tech-gaggle-ever/


Ladies and Gentlemen, this is about as ugly any kind of site deployment gets. They had three and a half years to get this right, do better and more testing. They have failed miserably and they are handling it miserably. There clearly should have been more testing, and with all due respect to Matthew Hancock, discovering these issues was as easy as using some freely available plugins to a free web browser used by millions of people around the world. That’s pretty sad. Now, there are ways to fix it using technology – Application monitoring, machine data, DevOps, Big Data – those are all things that could help. Get some people in there, maybe Google, or Facebook or someone – they handle way more traffic than that. You have to wonder if it’s too late. We were told this was for the 47 million uninsured. Is there any way this site can serve even half of that? A quarter? Until the word is out that things are better or just the plain truth of “we screwed up” – I’m giving the Affordable Care Act technical effort a big thumbs down, one-star review, whatever – this is not ready for primetime. Hopefully this is not a harbinger of things to come, but many have predicted that to be the case.

[ElNono]

Beautiful code

https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/global/en_US/registration.js

I gather you're not a web developer? That's called javascript minify/compression... it's a post-process to make files smaller for transit. It's only used by pretty much any serious website :lol

You know, it's not much different than, say:
https://apis.google.com/_/scs/abc-static/_/js/k=gapi.gapi.en.RmzQ7mCRk5g.O/m=googleapis_client,plusone/rt=j/sv=1/d=1/ed=1/rs=AItRSTOhEFqYZgveL6cKOKjO75yirdM_0w/cb=gapi.loaded_0

[AntiChrist]

I gather you're not a web developer? That's called javascript minify/compression... it's a post-process to make files smaller for transit. It's only used by pretty much any serious website :lol

You know, it's not much different than, say:
https://apis.google.com/_/scs/abc-static/_/js/k=gapi.gapi.en.RmzQ7mCRk5g.O/m=googleapis_client,plusone/rt=j/sv=1/d=1/ed=1/rs=AItRSTOhEFqYZgveL6cKOKjO75yirdM_0w/cb=gapi.loaded_0


Actually, I do develop commercial web apps. I was being facetious.

That being said, YOU of all people, should recognize that this rollout, especially given the price tag and development time, is a huge technical failure.

[boutons_deux]

the FEDERAL / CGI Federal app obviously has problems

the states with their non-CGI Federal exchange software are doing MUCH better.

I doubt CGI Federal will suffer loss of future govt business from this fuckup.

[boutons_deux]

CGI Group
Information technology company

CGI Group Inc. is a Canadian multinational information technology consulting, systems integration, outsourcing, and solutions company headquartered in Montreal, Canada. It was founded in 1976 by Serge Godin, André Imbeau, and Jean Brassard. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGI_Group)

Stock price (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+stock+price&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgx4HnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFlnx2spV-UmlxZl5qcbF-ZnFxaWqRVXFJfnK2QmFpfknqnbjl_1TOXFZknCHFNPHWkX3Hag ObAAVziNhLAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CKwBEOgTMA4): GIB (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=NYSE:GIB&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CK0BELEVMA4) (NYSE)$35.53+0.52 (+1.49%)
Oct 10, 3:22 PM EDT - Disclaimer (https://www.google.com/help/stock_disclaimer.html)

Headquarters (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+headquarters&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgyUHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFllZ2spV-flF6Yl5mVWJJZn4eCscqIzUxpbA0sagktah4T2gvU6DrjRXHVX bv6ozl229391QaAE2uoc5WAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLABEOgTKAEwDg): Montreal (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=montreal+canada&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgzMHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEgeIaWpUYK6llZ1spZ9flJ6Yl1mVWJKZn4fCscpITU wpLE0sKkktKr7yqev91vSF14KeSy2fbqbrE7L2ORsAmuj7sWAA AAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLEBEJsTKAIwDg), QC (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+qc&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgzsHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEo9-ur6hYVF8lnFhUYqWVnaylX5-UXpiXmZVYklmfh4KxyojNTGlsDSxqCS1qNiHX-NCic7jH58vHmq3XqjL9vJlggkAyPnzDmQAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLIBEJsTKAMwDg)

CEO (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+ceo&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgwEHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFlmJ2spV-flF6Yl5mVWJJZn4eCscqOTU_-Rkn-680eT-9_V_XaT_eotDk88ULAJ6gdl5NAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLUBEOgTKAEwDg): Michael E. Roach (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+michael+e.+roach&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgw0HnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEheImWdeblScq6WYnWyln1-UnpiXWZVYkpmfh8KxSk7NlzvJXPvOh8t0u_88BZ_rj0Tkud9qA AAFuMw2WQAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLYBEJsTKAIwDg)

Founded (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+founded&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgwkHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFlmp2spV-flF6Yl5mVWJJZn4eCscqLb80LyU1JU1jRf-dw69ZUuOPKJ6u3XGkalFQEwC0KCFpUQAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLkBEOgTKAEwDg): 1976

Founders (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+founders&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgxkHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFlnp2spV-UmlxZl5qcTGcEZ9fkFqUWJKZn2eVll-al5JaVPntp_bk19O6GoI_d_9dWXpk5zTj-wD-NFa6UwAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CLwBEOgTKAEwDg): Serge Godin (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=cgi+group+serge+godin&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgxMHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEheIaZRRlVtsqaWenWyln1RanJmXWlwMZ8TnF6QWJZ Zk5udZpeWX5qWkFsmprv14N8Q1rurzCjM73zmesZ0rWABJ5AVZ XwAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CL0BEJsTKAIwDg), André Imbeau (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=andr%C3%A9+imbeau&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgxMHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEheIaZRRlVucpaWenWyln1RanJmXWlwMZ8TnF6QWJZ Zk5udZpeWX5qWkFhncFZ161fO35IbZDAx7j2u_kauYMhkAmewc dV8AAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CL4BEJsTKAMwDg), Jean Brassard (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS478US478&q=jean+brassard&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgxMHnxCnfq6-gXm2eWWFEheIaZRRlVtcpKWenWyln1RanJmXWlwMZ8TnF6QWJZ Zk5udZpeWX5qWkFn3j5Beb7NbaFF8qXiIslhxm93-GIgChbAlHXwAAAA&sa=X&ei=3_5WUsnrLabbyQGtsYHQDQ&ved=0CL8BEJsTKAQwDg)

[ElNono]

Actually, I do develop commercial web apps. I was being facetious.

That being said, YOU of all people, should recognize that this rollout, especially given the price tag and development time, is a huge technical failure.

Never said otherwise. <shrug>

What I did say is that there's plenty of times to fix this stuff. If they don't have their shit sorted out by January it would certainly be a giant facepalm...

[AntiChrist]

CGI Group
Information technology company

CGI Group Inc. is a Canadian multinational information technology consulting, systems integration, outsourcing, and solutions company headquartered in Montreal, Canada. It was founded in 1976 by Serge Godin, André Imbeau, and Jean Brassard.




Hmmm. Outsourcing.


Thanks for including their stock symbol. I'll be sure to avoid that one.

[boutons_deux]

Fox Repug network is "giddy", "the happiest I've ever seen them", with the healthcare.gov :lol

Said the CGI Fed contract was 2 years, $330M

[ElNono]

Fear not, resident conservatives...

GOP to investigate Obamacare tech glitches (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/gop-obamacare-contractors-investigate-glitches-98155.html?hp=f2)

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Health Act Embraced in CaliforniaThere are radio and television commercials galore, along with Twitter and Facebook posts and scores of highway billboards. There are armies of outreach workers who speak Spanish, Tagalog, Cambodian, Mandarin and Cantonese, all flocking to county fairs, farmers markets, street festivals and back-to-school nights across the state. There are even dinner parties in Latino neighborhoods designed to reach one family at a time.

With enthusiastic backing from state officials and an estimated seven million uninsured, California is a crucial testing ground for the success of President Obama’s health care law.

It is building the country’s largest state-run health insurance exchange and has already expanded Medicaid coverage for the poor. Officials hope that the efforts here will eventually attract more than two million people who are currently uninsured.

And as the exchange, known as Covered California (https://www.coveredca.com/), has begun the painstaking effort to enroll potential customers in the subsidized insurance plans or expanded Medicaid, the public outreach effort here can seem akin to a huge political campaign.

“You can’t derail something when it has already left the station,” Mr. Lee said Tuesday in a news conference in the state capital, Sacramento. “We are going very strong.”

“People are really enthusiastic, but they are really unsure about what’s in it for them and what they are going to get,”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us/politics/health-act-embraced-in-california.html

The American health care super-expensive, for-profit, hyper-complicated/confusing kludgeocracy stumbles along, but at least making some progress with ACA.

[boutons_deux]

Fear not, resident conservatives...

GOP to investigate Obamacare tech glitches (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/gop-obamacare-contractors-investigate-glitches-98155.html?hp=f2)

:lol

But they don't investigate the horrendous MIC boondoggle/corporate welfare of the F-35.

[boobie4three]

College student writes viral letter ‘Obamacare Has Raped My Future’

Posted by Aleister G Saturday, October 12, 2013 at 8:00am

A University of Michigan graduate penned an open letter that went viral online as she described how President Barack Obama’s signature health care law hurts the working poor, and has “raped” her future.

Ashley Dionne, 26, posted the now-viral letter to conservative radio host Dennis Prager’s Facebook page earlier this week.

Here is the letter:

“My name is Ashley Dionne and I’m a 26-year-old recent graduate from Michigan.

The phony Obamacare signup poster boy made me want to send a message about how Obamacare is really affecting people.

I graduated from The University of Michigan in 2009. In my state, this used to mean something, but even with a bachelor’s I was told I was too educated and wouldn’t stay. I watched as kids with GEDs and high school diploma’s took the low-paying jobs for which I applied.

I went back to school and got a second degree and finally found work at a gym. I work nights and only get 32 hours a week for eight dollars an hour. I’m unable to find a second job at this time.

I have asthma, ulcers, and mild cerebral palsy. Obamacare takes my monthly rate from $75 a month for full coverage on my “Young Adult Plan,” to $319 a month. After $6,000 in deductibles, of course.

Liberals claimed this law would help the poor. I am the poor, the working poor, and I can’t afford to support myself, let alone older generations and people not willing to work at all.

This law has raped my future.

It will keep me and kids my age from having a future at all.

This is the real face of Obamacare and it isn’t pretty.”

Its a mixed bag, helping some, hurting others. Its a rushed piece of crap legilsation.

America deserves better.



http://collegeinsurrection.com/2013/10/college-student-writes-viral-letter-obamacare-has-raped-my-future/

[boutons_deux]

College student writes viral letter ‘Obamacare Has Raped My Future’

Posted by Aleister G Saturday, October 12, 2013 at 8:00am

A University of Michigan graduate penned an open letter that went viral online as she described how President Barack Obama’s signature health care law hurts the working poor, and has “raped” her future.

Ashley Dionne, 26, posted the now-viral letter to conservative radio host Dennis Prager’s Facebook page earlier this week.

Here is the letter:

“My name is Ashley Dionne and I’m a 26-year-old recent graduate from Michigan.

The phony Obamacare signup poster boy made me want to send a message about how Obamacare is really affecting people.

I graduated from The University of Michigan in 2009. In my state, this used to mean something, but even with a bachelor’s I was told I was too educated and wouldn’t stay. I watched as kids with GEDs and high school diploma’s took the low-paying jobs for which I applied.

I went back to school and got a second degree and finally found work at a gym. I work nights and only get 32 hours a week for eight dollars an hour. I’m unable to find a second job at this time.

I have asthma, ulcers, and mild cerebral palsy. Obamacare takes my monthly rate from $75 a month for full coverage on my “Young Adult Plan,” to $319 a month. After $6,000 in deductibles, of course.

Liberals claimed this law would help the poor. I am the poor, the working poor, and I can’t afford to support myself, let alone older generations and people not willing to work at all.

This law has raped my future.

It will keep me and kids my age from having a future at all.

This is the real face of Obamacare and it isn’t pretty.”

Its a mixed bag, helping some, hurting others. Its a rushed piece of crap legilsation.

America deserves better.

http://collegeinsurrection.com/2013/10/college-student-writes-viral-letter-obamacare-has-raped-my-future/

Rick Snyder's Michigan?

Repug controlled Michigan?

and she's blaming ACA for her shitty job prospects in fucking rust-state Michigan? dumb bitch.

" Obamacare takes my monthly rate from $75 a month for full coverage on my “Young Adult Plan,” to $319 a month. After $6,000 in deductibles"

Did she get that through the exchange? Michigan FINALLY realized 100%-Fed-paid Medicaid expansion was too good to pass up, and I bet she could get some help there. She's sounds so screwed up medically that she could get FEDERAL and state disability.

who was insuring her and ALL her sicknessess for $75/month?

" This week, Michigan's Republican-controlled legislature passed a law expanding Medicaid, which Republican Gov. Rick Snyder said he will sign
.
"Hundreds of thousands of Michiganders will have the opportunity for health care coverage," Snyder said after the vote. "It's a situation that will also save all Michiganders money, in terms of addressing an unmanaged, uncontrolled system.""

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/05/100-percent-medicaid/2749143/

[boobie4three]

Words like these ought to give you and other commie bastards here a major woody.

Sebelius: We Are Bringing Western Civilization to Its Knees With Obamacare


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5z7i1H2z7U&feature=share

[Th'Pusher]

Words like these ought to give you and other commie bastards here a major woody.

Sebelius: We Are Bringing Western Civilization to Its Knees With Obamacare


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5z7i1H2z7U&feature=share
You realize she was being facetious, right?

[boobie4three]

You realize she was being facetious, right?

Bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

Bullshit.

... it's what's between your jug-handle ears.

[Th'Pusher]

Bullshit.
Watch the whole segment in context.

[boobie4three]

Watch the whole segment in context.


Context? I don't need no stinking context.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/badges_zpsd426af65.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/badges_zpsd426af65.jpg.html)

[boobie4three]

Young People Still Not Signing Up For ObamaCare
Katie Pavlich | Oct 11, 2013


Guy already delivered the pathetic news of only 51,000 people signing up for Obamacare so far, but to make things worse, young people are still dodging the exchanges like the plague. Cathy Reisenwitz explains why in Forbes:

Experts say that young, healthy people must enroll in ObamaCare’s health exchanges to cover the cost of insuring sicker, older people. It’s a simple math equation: Charge everyone roughly the same rate for access to basically the same product. The people who use it less will subsidize the people who use it more.

The problem with this plan is that it hoses young, relatively poor people like me right when we least need high bills for services they’re not using. And it helps older, relatively rich people who should be able to afford the care they need. If America’s downtrodden and struggling young people are smart, they’ll opt out. Then it’ll be up to the federal government to fine them enough to make up for the shortfall.

Before Obamacare was passed in 2010, young people expressed little interested in making healthcare insurance a priority in their budgets. At the time, health plans for young and healthy people were available for as a little as $48. It didn't matter and young people didn't want it. Nothing has changed in the attitude of the young demographic the Obama administration hoped to attract, but was has changed is the price tag.

A report from the conservative American Action Forum found that health insurance rates for 2.7 million people aged 18 to 35 — the so-called young invincibles crucial to the health-care law’s success — would rise dramatically.

“Due to the ACA’s sweeping market reforms, rates for low-premium plans have increased exponentially between 2013 and 2014. In fact, on average, a healthy 30 year old male nonsmoker will see his lowest cost insurance option increase 260 percent,” reads AAF’s report.

A healthy 30-year-old would see his health insurance costs rise in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Pre-Obamacare premiums average about $62 per month, according to AAF, while post-Obamacare premiums average about $187 per month — a 202 percent difference. The average change between 2013 and 2014 low-cost premiums is 260 percent.

But what about the argument young people can stay on their parents' health insurance plans? Under Obamacare, adults are eligible to stay on a parents' health insurance plan until they are 26-years-old, but it comes at a cost. First, there is no such thing as free healthcare and delaying an individual plan only diverts the costs to parents for a longer period of time. Second, treating 26-year-olds as adult-children only delays real adulthood and economic independence, which is damaging long-term to the country.

In the end, Obamacare is bad for everyone, whether its a young person under 26 and on their parent's plan, or a young person looking to purchase a plan for themselves. Over to you, Shoshana Weissmann:

I’m never signing up for Obamacare. As a millennial with multiple pre-existing conditions, I know Obamacare is bad for millennials and bad for anyone who will ever have a medical expense. Obamacare forces millennials to pay for other people’s health insurance, increases our health insurance and care costs, and functions like a monopoly.

Millennials are not paying for our health care. We’re paying for other people’s health care. Obamacare exchanges work by forcing lots of young healthy people to sign up for the program and pay for the expenses of older people and sick people.

Former President Bill Clinton admitted this, saying Obamacare “only works, for example, if young people show up.” He went on to say, “We’ve got to have them in the pools, because otherwise all these projected low costs cannot be held if older people with preexisting conditions are disproportionately represented in any given state.” Healthy young adults (specifically, their money) are the key to keeping Obamacare afloat. That does not sound like the foundation of a solid, sustainable plan.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/10/11/young-people-still-not-signing-up-for-obamacare-n1721867

[boutons_deux]

"Obamacare forces millennials to pay for other people’s health insurance,"

all insurance works EXACTLY like that. See how Repug/tea bagger propaganda and lies dumbs peole down?

[boobie4three]

Watch the whole segment in context.

Even if she's deadpanning, she's actually saying what she, 0bama, and all his minions believe, and that is to bring America, as we know it, to it's knees. Socialists here and everywhere are giddy at the prospect.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"Obamacare forces millennials to pay for other people’s health insurance,"

all insurance works EXACTLY like that. See how Repug/tea bagger propaganda and lies dumbs peole down?

No it doesn't. Read up on risk management and get back to us.

The ACA does put limits on risk categorization. I do not have the actuarial background to say whether they have merit and it is obvious nor do you.

[AntiChrist]

smh

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/politics/from-the-start-signs-of-trouble-at-health-portal.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&

[TDMVPDPOY]

with or without healthcare, you can still go broke ass after treatment and shit...

once you remove office politics and redtape in the industry, is only when all can benefit the level of healthcare the govt/industry deems sustainable to provide for all....

healthcare costs that costs more then ur first home purchase is just wrong....

[boutons_deux]

smh

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/politics/from-the-start-signs-of-trouble-at-health-portal.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&

ACA is an incredibly ambtious and huge undertaking in the best of circumstances.

The Repugs have worked extremely hard to produce the worst of circumstances, because they know a successful DEMOCRATIC ACA would hurt the Repugs for many years.

"Politics made things worse. To avoid giving ammunition to Republicans opposed to the project, the administration put off issuing several major rules until after last November’s elections. The Republican-controlled House blocked funds. More than 30 states refused to set up their own exchanges, requiring the federal government to vastly expand its project in unexpected ways.
...
The stakes rose even higher when Congressional opponents forced a government shutdown in the latest fight over the health care law"

So the House Repugs blocked funding for the ACA development, while a main complaint of the developers is:

“The staff was heroic and dedicated, but we did not have enough money, and we all knew that,”

So the Repugs, federal and state, have been a huge part of the ACA problems.

[AntiChrist]

lol, dumbass boutons

[Wild Cobra]

Dems actually try to govern, so I give them slack, not defend every single action. (I'd love to know which PRIVATE FREE-MARKET For-PROFIT CONTRACTOR fucked up the Federal exchange software.)

Repugs intentionally, willfuly misgovern when they have the chance, and try to fuck the Dems' attempt to govern, so I say fuck 'em.

The problem I see is both sides disregard the intent of the 10th amendment. Find ways around it. The Demonrats are far more guilty of such actions the the Rinos.

[Wild Cobra]

Then what say you about this...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp


Obama voted against it -- and so did every single Democrat in the Senate


Extreme, indeed


EDIT> What qualifies as a whimper?

Funny that while we are still rebuilding after Katrina and 9/11, and still have troops in Iraq, that Obama is against this as a senator. Now that he wants to fund Obamacare...

Has any reporter, on camera, reminded him of this, or are they still playing throwing beach balls at him, instead of hardball? Any of them at least throwing softballs?

[Wild Cobra]

Here's that 2006 vote:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00054#top


Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---52



Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)

Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)

Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)





NAYs ---48



Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)

Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)

Lincoln (D-AR)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)







Gawt damned Extremisssstsss
It doesn't say how much they raised it by, but here is the one page bill:

GPO link: H. J. Res. 47 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-109hjres47enr/pdf/BILLS-109hjres47enr.pdf)

[Wild Cobra]

Dems lost the vote, they conceded. THEY DID NOT SHUTDOWN THE DUBYA GOVT NOR THREATEN TO DEFAULT THE USA
What do you mean? They are the ones you should blame for the current shutdown. Republicans in the house passed a bill to the senate. House democrats are not passing it.

[Wild Cobra]

No problem. Put a little thought into it next time instead of letting your emotions drive your responses and you may be able to come up with the answers yourself.
So you agree...

Democrats are symbolism over substance...

[boutons_deux]

What do you mean? They are the ones you should blame for the current shutdown. Republicans in the house passed a bill to the senate. House democrats are not passing it.

the House bill defunded or otherwise cut into ACA. The Dems refused.

If Repugs want to repeal ACA LAW, then go ahead and pass a LAW to repeal it. "We don't have enough votes, so we shutdown the govt"

[AntiChrist]

et tu, Ezra? Say it aint so.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=mI0N1Epo-1c

[angrydude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XvcGSTe3JuM

But I thought the reason why the website broke was because it was so popular!!!!!:lol:lol:lol

[boutons_deux]

insuring the uninsured is only part of ACA

Obamacare: The Rest of the Story


its second great goal: to promote reforms to our overpriced, underperforming health care system. Irony of ironies, the people who ought to be most vigorously applauding this success story are Republicans, because it is being done not by government decree but almost entirely with market incentives.

Using mainly the marketplace clout of Medicare and some seed money, the new law has spurred innovation and efficiency. And while those new insurance exchanges that are now lurching into business will touch roughly 1 in 10 Americans (the rest of us are already covered by private employer plans or by government programs like Medicare), these systemic reforms potentially touch every patient, every taxpayer.

“This is the 90 percent of the story that doesn’t make the headlines,”

more than 370 innovative medical practices, called accountable care organizations, have sprung up across the country, (http://www.oliverwyman.com/accountable-care-growth.htm) with 150 more in the works. At these centers, Medicare or private insurers reward doctors financially when their patients require fewer hospital stays, emergency room visits and surgeries — exactly the opposite of what doctors have traditionally been paid to do. The more money the organization saves, the more money its participating providers share. And the best way to save costs (which is, happily, also the best way to keep patients alive) is to catch problems before they explode into emergencies.

Thus the accountable care organizations have become the Silicon Valley of preventive care, laboratories of invention driven by the entrepreneurial energy of start-ups.

the sickest 1 percent of patients account for 21 percent of health care costs; 5 percent account for half of the total costs.

One reason you may not have heard much about this part of the Obamacare story is that it is numbingly complicated. (Stephen M. Davidson of Boston University has written a concise and accessible guide (http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=23436) to the law and its consequences.) But I suspect another reason is partisan spite. The Democrats were passionately in favor of enrolling the uninsured, but many would have preferred a government-run program, or at least a public option. What Obamacare has wrought is the kind of market-driven reformation that Republicans pretend to believe in. Which makes you wonder how much of their opposition rests on the merits, and how much is just a loathing for anything associated with Barack Obama.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/opinion/keller-obamacare-the-rest-of-the-story.html?hp

http://www.amazon.com/New-U-S-Health-Care-ebook/dp/B00CUAC0FQ/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1381777071&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=A+New+Era+in+U.S.+Health+Care

[AntiChrist]

But I thought the reason why the website broke was because it was so popular!!!!!:lol:lol:lol


They are dropping this as a talking point as it is provably false.

[boutons_deux]

They are dropping this as a talking point as it is provably false.

healthcare.gov was under-resourced and overwhelmed by the traffic, which itself was compounded by so many people hanging in for so long AND retrying multiple times, added to the Repug-starved development funds.

[boutons_deux]

As y'all's hero Donald Rumsfeld would say it: "You start healthcare reform with the systems you have, not the systems you might want or wish to have at a later time (http://crooksandliars.com/2006/12/15/remebering-rumsfeld-you-go-to-war-with-the-army-you-have-not-the-army-you-might-want-or-wish-to-have-at-a-later-time)"

And Rummy's military was blowing through $500B+/year for many years and it still wasn't ready to "slam dunk" Afganistan and Iraq.

[AntiChrist]

healthcare.gov was under-resourced and overwhelmed by the traffic.


under-resourced? Do you know how much money they spent for that P.O.S.? Epic fail

[boutons_deux]

under-resourced? Do you know how much money they spent for that P.O.S.? Epic fail

$400M. I guess most of it went to over-charging, under-performing free-market for-profit contractors, right? The Repugs did block funding.

It's extremely disappointing that it was fucked up, but I expect that healthcare.gov will, starting from shit, make great strides in the next few weeks.

Big Picture is that US health care is one fucked up, hyper-complicated, wasteful, often corrupted kludgeocracy.

[boutons_deux]

Glitches move downstream in health care enrollment

For the first time since the launch of insurance exchanges under the the Affordable Health Care Act, users can more readily create accounts for themselves and begin the enrollment process through the Healthcare.gov insurance marketplace for consumers in 36 states, according to people aiding the sign-up effort.

But the glitches that have beset the system are not all ironed out. Further into the process, error messages and other difficulties were apparent, leading to fresh frustrations for health insurers and nonprofits who want to help millions of uninsured Americans sign up for benefits.

"We have seen progress every day," said Nasim Zahran of Miami's Borinquen Medical Health Care Centers, where hundreds of people are waiting to enroll. "Today was the first day that we got all the way to the last screen. But then an error screen popped up saying the site would be down for 72 hours," Zahran said.

Healthcare.gov saw 14.6 million unique visits in its first 10 days, a larger-than-expected public response that raised hopes the initiative would meet with strong enough demand in its first year.

At town hall meetings intended to drive people to enroll, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas is telling consumers not to rush to purchase health coverage through Healthcare.gov, given that the enrollment period runs through March 31.

"What we are encouraging our folks in Kansas to do is give it a few weeks and let the bugs work their way out of the system,"

The change is more in line with the approach of states such as Connecticut and California that successfully launched their own health care exchanges.

"States have figured out how to do it. It's a harder lift for the federal government with the volume it has, but it's not different in kind," said Joel Ario, who oversaw the early plans for the state exchanges at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) until his departure in 2011.

"Maybe they need to hire the contractors from the states that have figured this out," he said in a discussion posted to the journal Health Affairs' blog.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/545/article/p2p-77793816/

They'll figure out and fix this stuff in the next few weeks, then you dickless anklebiters hoping that American FAILS TO MAKE PROGRESS will be bitch slapped again, and Repug politicians will then try to claim credit, like they did when Obama's stimulus checks arrived in their states and districts.

[SA210]

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q71/1381963_248436021974559_937769007_n.jpg

:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XvcGSTe3JuM

But I thought the reason why the website broke was because it was so popular!!!!!:lol:lol:lol

It was all about the movie! It wasn't 9/11 terrorism it was the MOVIE!!!

[SA210]

ObamaCare Fine Print: 'Personal Info Could Be Shared With Authorities'





Aside from the technical glitches plaguing the ObamaCare exchanges, there's some fine print on these government websitesthat has some people concerned.

As reported by The Weekly Standard, an individual who signs up is asked to check a box, agreeing to terms and conditions of the privacy policy, like you would see when signing up for a bank account or a credit card.

But the fine print contains this line: "we may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities."

The Fox and Friends hosts asked Judge Andrew Napolitano what's going on here. He said this appears to be an "outrageous invasion of privacy" that is prohibited under the Constitution.

- See VIDEO at: http://andrewnapolitano.com/articles/obamacare-fine-print-personal-info-could-be-shared-with-authorities#sthash.rHWTCRy6.4LLUeGsc.dpuf

[boutons_deux]

in the category "make life as difficult as possible"

Obamacare Struggles Even Worse In States That Resisted It

In Washington, D.C., (population 632,000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20130911074414/http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html)), the drive to enroll the uninsured into health coverage under President Barack Obama's health care reform law is backed by the city government, federal funding and more than 200 local workers helping people apply for benefits.

In Prince William County, Va., (population 430,000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20130603070213/http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51153.html)), 30 miles south of the U.S. Capitol, there's pretty much just Frank Principi.

"People are sick, and people are sick of having to pay large amounts of cash, or forgo paying a bill at all and going into bankruptcy," Principi, 52, said during an interview at the clinic on Wednesday. Principi estimates that about 100 people asked for information on Oct. 1 alone, the day the exchanges opened. Incoming phone calls are up more than 10 percent, he said.

. Fewer uninsured people are expected to get coverage in places like Virginia, which is doing next to nothing to help its residents sign up, than in places like the District of Columbia, which embraced the law's goals.

Principi believes his patients will brave the extra hassle. "The families that we're helping? They've never had health insurance in their lives," he said. "Getting affordable health insurance for them and their families is a huge, huge relief from the stress, the anxiety, the pressure of not knowing what's going to happen when your child gets sick. These folks are willing to wait."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/14/obamacare-states_n_4086910.html

but will they vote Dem for helping them out with ACA and to punish Repugs for fucking up ACA in their state?

[boutons_deux]

America, World Champion Kludgeocrats

Beneficiaries of Medicare Left Confused by Exchanges


Medicare beneficiaries can sign up for private health plans starting Tuesday, but federal officials fear that many of them, out of confusion, might go to the new federal insurance exchange.

In fact, people with Medicare generally cannot buy insurance through the exchange. Policies sold there duplicate many benefits provided by Medicare, and it is illegal for insurance companies, agents and brokers to sell such polices to people known to have Medicare, federal officials said Monday.

More than one-fourth of the 52 million Medicare beneficiaries are in private managed care plans known as Medicare Advantage, and the Obama administration is giving these insurance companies a fresh infusion of federal money.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/us/beneficiaries-of-medicare-left-confused-by-exchanges.html

Repugs' UNFUNDED Medicare Advantage is blatant corporate welfare, costing taxpayers 10%+ more than Medicare.

[boobie4three]

Yo bouton, you're needed back over at DailyKos to crack some heads. You've got a blogger who's gone off the reservation.:lol

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/30/1242660/-Obamacare-will-double-my-monthly-premium#

Obamacare will double my monthly premium (according to Kaiser)

by Tirge Caps

MON SEP 30, 2013 AT 01:36 PM PDT



My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don't go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife's rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

Oh, ok, if we qualify, we can get some government assistance. Great. So now I have to jump through another hoop to just chisel some of this off. And we don't qualify, anyway, so what's the point?

I never felt too good about how this was passed and what it entailed, but I figured if it saved Americans money, I could go along with it.

I don't know what to think now. This appears, in my experience, to not be a reform for the people.

What am I missing?

I realize I will probably get screamed at for posting this, but I can't imagine I am the only Californian who just received a rate increase from Kaiser based on these new laws.

UPDATE: Updated the title per some requests. I appreciate all the helpful comments. I am now on baby duty but will go through these later for more information. I can't keep up with all the comments right now.

I really do appreciate the helpful comments. Peace all. Peace out.

[boutons_deux]

under-resourced? Do you know how much money they spent for that P.O.S.? Epic fail

Repugs cut funding. See above.

under resourced just isn't people, it's high volume servers.

[AntiChrist]

Repugs cut funding. See above.

under resourced just isn't people, it's high volume servers.

Wrong. They had three years and a large budget.

[Winehole23]

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/how-many-people-have-enrolled-in-obamacare/280551/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From wine's article. thanks btw, man.


At least 115,000 people have completed applications through the state-based health insurance exchanges in the first two weeks of Obamacare enrollment, according to data made public by the states.

Because many of the states have released less than two full weeks of data, the true number of applications filed is likely higher. Still, even if all this enrollment were compressed into just one week, rather than spread out across two, the rate of enrollment so far is low enough that if you extrapolate it out it, the health-insurance exchanges would see only 2.76 million people enrolled at the end of the six month open-enrollment period. That number falls well short of the 7 million the administration has announced as its first-year enrollment goal and reflects the lack of enrollment reported through the federally-run exchanges, which cover 34 states, as well as troubles at the state exchanges.

[AntiChrist]

Thanks for strengthening my argument, Fuzzy.

[boutons_deux]

Thanks for strengthening my argument, Fuzzy.

it took 2 years for MA enrollment to approach a steady maximum.

There's still 5 months left for enrollment, and 2 months left until Dec 15 if you want coverage to start 1-1-14.

Exchanges aren't the only way to enroll. People can sign up directly with insurance companies, for which I haven't seen any numbers.

A huge part of the problem with the enrollment software, state or federal, is the kludge-o-cratic complexity of ALL health insurance. ACA is a victim of the health insurance/health care kludgeocracy like all of us.

[boutons_deux]

ObamaCare Fine Print: 'Personal Info Could Be Shared With Authorities'

pharmacies already sell who prescribes and buys drugs to marketers.

CIA/NSA secretly provide illegal snooping data to law enforcement that is absolutely forbidden from exposing the source of the data.

Fox trolls like Napo never seems to be outraged when Repugs do this stuff.

[Winehole23]

http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/

[Winehole23]

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/health-exchange/2013/10/16/the-publicly-traded-contractor-behind-the-obamacare-site/?fb_action_ids=10202255396405565&fb_action_types=og.likes

[SA210]

Napo never seems to be outraged when Repugs do this stuff.


Why do you continue to say this, when you know it isn't true? He calls out BOTH sides.

[boobie4three]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/heritage_zps2a56ffec.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/heritage_zps2a56ffec.jpg.html)
http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2013/10/how-will-you-fare-in-the-obamacare-exchanges

Wow, 27 year olds are really getting hosed. I wonder how they feel now having voted for the first black President because they thought it would be cool.

[boobie4three]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/mk3l7_zps0553eb08.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/mk3l7_zps0553eb08.jpg.html)

[boutons_deux]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/heritage_zps2a56ffec.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/heritage_zps2a56ffec.jpg.html)
http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2013/10/how-will-you-fare-in-the-obamacare-exchanges

Wow, 27 year olds are really getting hosed. I wonder how they feel now having voted for the first black President because they thought it would be cool.

Does ACA set the insurance rates?

Do they states have insurance commissions that approve/block hikes in insurance?

Any possibility that the insurance companies are exploiting the ACA flux to screw their customers?

[boobie4three]

Obamacare's Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn't Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are

10/14/2013 @ 11:39AM |952,177 views

Avik Roy, Contributor

A growing consensus of IT experts, outside and inside the government, have figured out a principal reason why the website for Obamacare’s federally-sponsored insurance exchange is crashing. Healthcare.gov forces you to create an account and enter detailed personal information before you can start shopping. This, in turn, creates a massive traffic bottleneck, as the government verifies your information and decides whether or not you’re eligible for subsidies. HHS bureaucrats knew this would make the website run more slowly. But they were more afraid that letting people see the underlying cost of Obamacare’s insurance plans would scare people away.

HHS didn’t want users to see Obamacare’s true costs

“Healthcare.gov was initially going to include an option to browse before registering,” report Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky in the Wall Street Journal. “But that tool was delayed, people familiar with the situation said.” Why was it delayed? “An HHS spokeswoman said the agency wanted to ensure that users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage, before they started seeing the prices of policies.” (Emphasis added.)

As you know if you’ve been following this space, Obamacare’s bevy of mandates, regulations, taxes, and fees drives up the cost of the insurance plans that are offered under the law’s public exchanges. A Manhattan Institute analysis I helped conduct found that, on average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people.

That raises an obvious question. If 50 million people are uninsured today, mainly because insurance is too expensive, why is it better to make coverage even costlier?

Political objectives trumped operational objectives

The answer is that Obamacare wasn’t designed to help healthy people with average incomes get health insurance. It was designed to force those people to pay more for coverage, in order to subsidize insurance for people with incomes near the poverty line, and those with chronic or costly medical conditions.

But the laws’ supporters and enforcers don’t want you to know that, because it would violate the President’s incessantly repeated promise that nothing would change for the people that Obamacare doesn’t directly help. If you shop for Obamacare-based coverage without knowing if you qualify for subsidies, you might be discouraged by the law’s steep costs.

So, by analyzing your income first, if you qualify for heavy subsidies, the website can advertise those subsidies to you instead of just hitting you with Obamacare’s steep premiums. For example, the site could advertise plans that cost “$0″ or “$30″ instead of explaining that the plan really costs $200, and that you’re getting a subsidy of $200 or $170. But you’ll have to be at or near the poverty line to gain subsidies of that size; most people will either not qualify for a subsidy, or qualify for a small one that, net-net, doesn’t make up for the law’s cost hikes.

This political objective—masking the true underlying cost of Obamacare’s insurance plans—far outweighed the operational objective of making the federal website work properly. Think about it the other way around. If the “Affordable Care Act” truly did make health insurance more affordable, there would be no need to hide these prices from the public.

Subsidy verification created a traffic bottleneck

Comparable private-sector e-commerce sites, like eHealthInsurance.com, allow you to shop for plans and compare prices simply by entering your age and your ZIP code. After you’ve selected a plan you like, you fill out an on-line application. That substantially winnows down the number of people who rely on the site for network-intensive tasks.

The federal government’s decision to force people to apply before shopping, Weaver and Radnofsky write, “proved crucial because, before users can begin shopping for coverage, they must cross a busy digital junction in which data are swapped among separate computer systems built or run by contractors including CGI Group Inc., the healthcare.gov developer, Quality Software Services Inc., a UnitedHealth Group Inc. unit; and credit-checker Experian PLC. If any part of the web of systems fails to work properly, it could lead to a traffic jam blocking most users from the marketplace.”

Jay Angoff, a former federal official at the agency that oversees the exchange, told the Journal that he was surprised by the decision. “People should be able to get quotes” without entering all of that information upfront.

Weaver and Radnofsky say that the core problem stems from “the slate of registration systems [that] intersect with Oracle Identity Manager, a software component embedded in a government identity-checking system.” The main Healthcare.gov web page collects information using the CGI Group technology. Then that data is transferred to a system built by Quailty Software Services. QSS then sends data to Experian, the credit-history firm. But the key “identity management system” employed by QSS was designed by Oracle, and according to the Journal’s sources, the Oracle software isn’t playing nicely with the other information systems.

Oracle hotly denies these claims. “Our software is the identical product deployed in most of the world’s most complex systems…our software is running properly,” said an Oracle spokeswoman in a statement.

‘It’s awful, just awful’

Robert Pear and colleagues at the New York Times have a piece up today detailing the serious problems with the federal exchange, problems that may get worse, not better. They confirm what we already knew: that the Obama administration refused to delay the implementation of the exchanges, despite the well-known problems, because they were afraid of the political blowback. “Former government officials say the White House, which was calling the shots, feared that any backtracking would further embolden Republican critics who were trying to repeal the health care law.”

As I documented last week, IT and insurance experts have been saying for at least eight months that implementation of the exchanges was going badly, that as early as February officials were warning of a “third world experience.” The Times’ sources are just as blunt. “These are not glitches,” said one insurance executive. “The extent of the problems is pretty enormous. At the end of our [conference calls with the administration], people say, ‘It’s awful, just awful.’”

“We foresee a train wreck,” said another executive in a February interview with the Times. “We don’t have the IT specifications. The level of angst in health plans is growing by leaps and bounds. The political people in the administration do not understand how far behind they are.” Richard Foster, the former chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said last week that “so much testing of the new system was so far behind schedule, I was not confident it would work well.”

Henry Chao, the deputy chief information officer at CMS who made the “third world experience” comment, was told by his superiors that failure to meet the October 1 launch deadline “was not an option,” according to the Times.

White House knowingly chose to court disaster

Think about it. It’s quite possible that much of this disaster could have been avoided if the Obama administration had been willing to be open with the public about the degree to which Obamacare escalates the cost of health insurance. If they had, then a number of the problems with the exchange’s software architecture would never have arisen. But that would require admitting that the “Affordable Care Act” was not accurately named.

The White House knew that its people on the front lines, people like Henry Chao, were worried that the exchanges would get botched. They saw the Congressional Research Service memorandum detailing that the administration has missed half of the statutory deadlines assigned by the law. But they were more afraid of the P.R. disaster of disclosing Obamacare’s high premiums than they were of the P.R. disaster of crashing websites. What you see is the result.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/

[boutons_deux]

30 years old, and still screwed up

More Angst For College Applicants: A Glitchy Common App


http://www.npr.org/2013/10/16/235421758/more-angst-for-college-applicants-a-glitchy-common-app

[boutons_deux]

Avik Roy, extreme right winger at Manhattan Inst propagandizing in Murdoch rag WSJ. credible

So the govt sabotaged healthcare.gov? :lol

[boutons_deux]

Rick Perry Is Actually Encouraging Texans To Enroll In Obamacare (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/17/2798991/rick-perry-actually-encouraging-texas-enroll-obamacare/)

After years of trying to undermine the Affordable Care Act, Texas lawmakers are suddenly embracing President Obama’s signature domestic policy accomplishment. On Thursday, the Texas Tribune reported (http://www.texastribune.org/2013/10/17/texas-prepares-shutter-high-risk-insurance-pool/) that the state is shuttering a state-based health care program and encouraging Texans to sign-up for coverage in the federally-run health care exchange.

it undermines Gov. Rick Perry’s (R-TX) entire health care philosophy and contradicts the GOP’s claim that states are best suited to take care of their uninsured populations.

Throughout the 2012 presidential campaign, for instance, Perry supported complete repeal of the Affordable Care Act and suggested that states should take the lead in crafting health care policy. “If we can get the federal government out of our business in the states when it comes to health care, we’ll come up with ways to deliver more health care to more people cheaper than what the federal government is mandating today,” Perry said during a 2011 GOP primary debate. Two years later, he appears to have changed his mind.

Update

In June, Perry also signed a Republican-backed bill that requires (http://openstates.org/tx/bills/83/SB1057/) the Texas Department of State Health Services to inform individuals applying for certain state health services about “private health care insurance coverage and the health insurance exchange.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/17/2798991/rick-perry-actually-encouraging-texas-enroll-obamacare/

[AntiChrist]

Shutdown over, Congress turns to Obamacare 'train wreck'

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-over-congress-turns-to-obamacare-train-wreck-98433.html

[boutons_deux]

I much rather have the Dems trying to make progress and screwing up than the Repugs trying to destroy govt and succeeding.

Healthcare.gov will get fixed but the $3T+ and the many 100Ks lives dubya and dickhead wasted in Iraq and Afganistan are gone forever.