Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

[RandomGuy]

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g294471-d2254052-i36393456-Viminacium-Serbia.html


That is five tombs of roman emporers.

Now show me the body of Jesus.

[RandomGuy]

You're a fucking dumbass, why would they keep an account of someone they hated and sentenced to death? Someone who challenged their Empire and ruling? And Tacitus is a reliable roman historian.

Romans were not the only people capable of writing.

Fail.

[RD2191]

Now you're discrediting reliable Roman historians to fit your agenda? :lmao Seriously just shut the fuck already.

[RandomGuy]

You're a fucking dumbass, why would they keep an account of someone they hated and sentenced to death? Someone who challenged their Empire and ruling? And Tacitus is a reliable roman historian.

There is every indication that they themselves made up the story to keep Jews in line.

Slaves obey your masters

Render unto ceasar...

Seems like the Romans would have quite a bit of motivation to make shit up along those lines, don't you think?

[RandomGuy]

Now you're discrediting reliable Roman historians to fit your agenda? :lmao Seriously just shut the fuck already.

I am not discrediting Roman scholars. I am merely pointing out that there were writings beyond that of Rome.

You do realize that writing was not unique to Romans, right?

[Woo Bum-kon]

"The Roman historian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_historiography) and senator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_senate) Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus) referred to Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), his execution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus) by Pontius Pilate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate) and the existence of early Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christianity) in Rome in his final work, Annals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_(Tacitus)) (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15#44).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-1)

lol 80+ years after it allegedly happened.

[RD2191]

There is every indication that they themselves made up the story to keep Jews in line.

Slaves obey your masters

Render unto ceasar...

Seems like the Romans would have quite a bit of motivation to make shit up along those lines, don't you think?
:lolgtfo

[RandomGuy]

You're a fucking dumbass, why would they keep an account of someone they hated and sentenced to death? Someone who challenged their Empire and ruling? And Tacitus is a reliable roman historian.

I don't question Tacitus reliably reporting what HE heard.

I question the truth of what he heard.

He could just as accurately have reported accounts of Bigfoot that he had heard. The problem is that the people telling him had heard it from someone who heard it from someone, who told it to someone a hundred years before his death.

Not unlike a certain young man chopping down a cherry tree. You can accurately relate that you heard the story, but can't speak to whether it happened 200 years after the fact without some evidence FROM THE TIME IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Sorry you can't make that logical connection.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Show me the body of any Roman Emperor. You really are an idiot.

is dis nigga serious?

[RD2191]

1. There are amazingly few manuscripts of ANY text written during Jesus’ time
2. Historians of this period wrote amazingly little about religious figures anyway
3. Jesus was active for an amazingly short period of time (just three years)
4. Jesus ministered in an amazingly remote corner of the Roman Empire

[RD2191]

is dis nigga serious?
Yes, I am.

[Joseph Kony]

"The Roman historian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_historiography) and senator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_senate) Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus) referred to Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), his execution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus) by Pontius Pilate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate) and the existence of early Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christianity) in Rome in his final work, Annals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_(Tacitus)) (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15#44).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-1)
The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome) that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-Dando1-2)The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Christianity), the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_gospels), and the presence and persecution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#Persecution_of_early_Chr istians_in_the_Roman_Empire) of Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians) in 1st-century Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-brent32-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-New_Testament_2000._p_39-_53-4)
Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-CEvans42-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-Bible.27_page_343-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-ReferenceA-7) Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-EddyB127-8)
In terms of an overall context, historian Ronald Mellor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Mellor_(historian)) has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing".[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-Mellor23-9) The passage is also of historical value in establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60: (i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time, (ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Judea).[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-Dunn56-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#cite_note-AntiochRome-11)"

Church mother fucker. So sit down and shut the fuck up.

So some copypasta from Wiki about the Bible. Way to prove your point dipshit :tu

[RandomGuy]

:lolgtfo

That is the point I have been trying to make.

I have no idea why the stories came about. The "keep the rebellious jews in line" theory is just one of many.

My point is not that it is valid, it is that it exists at all, which fucking demolishes your assertion of "almost all" historians believing something pretty fucking handlily.

The fact that you are reduced to "gtfo" and smileys pretty much is a white flag.

[Koolaid_Man]

"You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"


"Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."7 (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html#n07) - Albert Einstein

[Joseph Kony]

1. There are amazingly few manuscripts of ANY text written during Jesus’ time
2. Historians of this period wrote amazingly little about religious figures anyway
3. Jesus was active for an amazingly short period of time (just three years)
4. Jesus ministered in an amazingly remote corner of the Roman Empire

Bullshit. :lol I know you christian bigots like to believe that yours is the only religion but there were many more religions already established by this time, many of which are documented and written about, so gtfo with this bullshit. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about at all, and citing bible-related evidence is not proving anything other than you're even more retarded than originally thought

[Clipper Nation]

So some copypasta from Wiki about the Bible. Way to prove your point dipshit :tu

Copypasta that he didn't even bother reading, otherwise he'd realize it was from five generations after Jesus' death :lol

:lol Jeebotards
:lol Terrible arguments

[RD2191]

A white flag? What's the point of arguing with a dumbass? You are so set in your belief that no matter what I post you will find a way to discredit it as hearsay.

[Joseph Kony]

"You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"



He also believed he wasn't a god. So what's your point? :lol

[RD2191]

Bullshit. :lol I know you christian bigots like to believe that yours is the only religion but there were many more religions already established by this time, many of which are documented and written about, so gtfo with this bullshit. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about at all, and citing bible-related evidence is not proving anything other than you're even more retarded than originally thought
Ok, well post links to such documents.

[Koolaid_Man]

Bullshit. :lol I know you christian bigots like to believe that yours is the only religion but there were many more religions already established by this time, many of which are documented and written about, so gtfo with this bullshit. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about at all, and citing bible-related evidence is not proving anything other than you're even more retarded than originally thought

Please name the established religions prior to Christianity

[Joseph Kony]

RG laying the smackdown :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Paganism?

PS: I already know the answer it's just a test for you....google away dipshit

[Joseph Kony]

Please name the established religions prior to Christianity

:lmao

Judaism, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Hinduism, Shintoism, Animism, Celtic-Druidic, Native American shamanism, etc. You're too stupid for words :lol

[RD2191]

Why do we still use BC? :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

:lmao

Judaism, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Hinduism, Shintoism, Animism, Celtic-Druidic, Native American shamanism, etc. You're too stupid for words :lol

How far back do they date and what are the orgins...let's actually put my stupidity to the test

[Joseph Kony]

Ok, well post links to such documents.

The fact that epics like the bhagavad gita and gilgamesh exist is proof enough. i'll let you in on a secret. a lot of the horeshit stories in the Bible are stolen from gilgamesh which was written before the bible. but for some reason it's seen as mythology while the bible is seen as fact. retards like you being the reason

[RD2191]

:lmao

Judaism, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Hinduism, Shintoism, Animism, Celtic-Druidic, Native American shamanism, etc. You're too stupid for words :lol
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA, YOU ARE SO FUCKING STUPID

[Clipper Nation]

Why do we still use BC? :lol

Many historians and scientists have switched to BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era), so not sure what point you're making there, tbh.... you are reaching wildly now :lol

[Joseph Kony]

How far back do they date and what are the orgins...let's actually put my stupidity to the test

Go find out for yourself, we're having a big boy discussion here. Stick to slurping rapist cock and posting threads about men's sexual orientation, you're out of your league peanut-brain

[Joseph Kony]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA, YOU ARE SO FUCKING STUPID

Cool story bro. All these religions existed before Christianity, so you're little ALL CAPS LAUGHING FEST really means nothing. The only one that looks like a complete dumbfuck in this thread is you :lol

[RandomGuy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_in_comparative_mythology

There are a lot of aspects of the story of Jesus that are far from unique.

Many aspects, such as a virgin/miraculous birth are very common in many deity backstories of the time, and that is just the first example.

[RD2191]

Cool story bro. All these religions existed before Christianity, so you're little ALL CAPS LAUGHING FEST really means nothing. The only one that looks like a complete dumbfuck in this thread is you :lol
:cry:cry:lmao

[Joseph Kony]

:lol has no rebuttal so resorts to posting emoticons

[RD2191]

Most of what is known of the ancient world comes from the accounts of antiquity's own historians. Although it is important to take into account the bias of each ancient author, their accounts are the basis for our understanding of the ancient past. Some of the more notable ancient writers include Herodotus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus), Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides), Polybius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybius), Sima Qian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sima_Qian), Sallust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallust), Livy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livy), Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus), Suetonius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius), and Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus).
The earliest known systematic historical thought emerged in ancient Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), beginning with Herodotus of Halicarnassus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus_of_Halicarnassus) (484–c. 425 BC).Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides) largely eliminated divine causality in his account of the war between Athens and Sparta,[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33) establishing a rationalistic element which set a precedent for subsequent Western historical writings. He was also the first to distinguish between cause and immediate origins of an event.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33)

[RD2191]

You fucking faggots own yourselves, RandomGuy is actually decent but Kony you are a dumbass.

[Koolaid_Man]

Go find out for yourself, we're having a big boy discussion here. Stick to slurping rapist cock and posting threads about men's sexual orientation, you're out of your league peanut-brain

sounds like you're having a melting down session

[Joseph Kony]

Most of what is known of the ancient world comes from the accounts of antiquity's own historians. Although it is important to take into account the bias of each ancient author, their accounts are the basis for our understanding of the ancient past. Some of the more notable ancient writers include Herodotus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus), Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides), Polybius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybius), Sima Qian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sima_Qian), Sallust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallust), Livy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livy), Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus), Suetonius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius), and Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus).
The earliest known systematic historical thought emerged in ancient Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), beginning with Herodotus of Halicarnassus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus_of_Halicarnassus) (484–c. 425 BC).Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides) largely eliminated divine causality in his account of the war between Athens and Sparta,[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33) establishing a rationalistic element which set a precedent for subsequent Western historical writings. He was also the first to distinguish between cause and immediate origins of an event.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33)




what a fucking tool :lmao

[Joseph Kony]

You fucking faggots own yourselves, RandomGuy is actually decent but Kony you are a dumbass.

you have yet to refute anything except by posting unrelated bullshit and OMG UR SO DUMB HAHAHAA <insert various emoticons>

[RD2191]

what a fucking tool :lmao
How am I a tool? Read the text you dumbass.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Please name the established religions prior to Christianity

Judaism.

[Joseph Kony]

:cry :cry :cry

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[RD2191]

You know I'm getting to you but you won't admit it. :lol

[Joseph Kony]

here we go again with this tired ass schtick :lol

[RD2191]

Hey, I got nothing but time. Wanna keep going?

[Koolaid_Man]

Cool story bro. All these religions existed before Christianity, so you're little ALL CAPS LAUGHING FEST really means nothing. The only one that looks like a complete dumbfuck in this thread is you :lol

The Bible existed before Christianity..so what's your point...Christianity was handed down from the Mosaic law...the Bible unlike other religious dogma can be traced through historical / and proven through archeology based on world empires that existed...Can you make the same claim for the other religions....I need tangible proof btw similar to man's history that validates the Bible...

[RandomGuy]

"You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"



Meh. Einstein was unquestionably brilliant, but hardly infallible, and the existence of Jesus was not his forte as a physicist.

Might as well ask your veterinarian about the best treatment for your diabetes.

[CitizenDwayne]

The sad thing is, even if there is some legitimacy to this, it will be ignored/dismissed by the majority of the population.

[RandomGuy]

The Bible existed before Christianity..so what's your point...Christianity was handed down from the Mosaic law...the Bible unlike other religious dogma can be traced through historical / and proven through archeology based on world empires that existed...Can you make the same claim for the other religions....I need tangible proof btw similar to man's history that validates the Bible...

Truth about some of the archeological accounts in the bible is not proof that whole thing is true.

Plenty of fiction references people and places that existed.

Tolkien's world was based on England. Does that mean Gollum was real?

[Koolaid_Man]

Judaism.



and Judiasm is the pre-cursor for Christianity...the Mosiac Law....do you not agree?

[Clipper Nation]

How far back do they date and what are the orgins...let's actually put my stupidity to the test
Judaism: 1500 BCE in Israel
Egyptian: c. 3100 BCE in Egypt during the Predynastic period
Greek: evolved from Mycenaean Greek religion from c. 1600-1100 BCE
Roman: evolved from various religious cults dating back to the 8th century BCE
Hinduism: dates back to Indian Vedism from 1600-800 BCE
Shintoism: dates back to ancient Japanese religions from 300 BCE
Celtic-Druidic: as early as 200 BCE in Britain, Ireland, and France

Christianity: 1st century CE

[Woo Bum-kon]

The Bible existed before Christianity..so what's your point...Christianity was handed down from the Mosaic law...the Bible unlike other religious dogma can be traced through historical / and proven through archeology based on world empires that existed...Can you make the same claim for the other religions....I need tangible proof btw similar to man's history that validates the Bible...

The Amazing Spider-Man is true because New York actually exists.

[Woo Bum-kon]

and Judiasm is the pre-cursor for Christianity...the Mosiac Law....do you not agree?

So?

[RandomGuy]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA, YOU ARE SO FUCKING STUPID

He correctly pointed out about half a dozen established religions that pre-dated Christianity and Judiaism for that matter, which is exactly what he was asked to do.

Not quite what I would call "fucking stupid", unless your definition of fucking stupid is providing the information asked for.

[Koolaid_Man]

Truth about some of the archeological accounts in the bible is not proof that whole thing is true.

Plenty of fiction references people and places that existed.

Tolkien's world was based on England. Does that mean Gollum was real?

^ you're pivoting in your statement...while you acknowledge Biblical truth in tangible hard evidence you then become dismissive because you don't understand symbolism's, personifications, and the difference between figurative and literal meanings...

[Koolaid_Man]

So?

So? ok...so Judaism is nothing but a form of Christianity which pretty much gets us back to square 1....use your brain Woo Bum....

[RD2191]

Not the reason i said he was stupid but okay.

[RandomGuy]

The Amazing Spider-Man is true because New York actually exists.

DING DING DING!!

THere is archeological evidence that New York existed with buildings in it as Depicted in the Spider man Comic book bible.

That means there was a guy who was bitten by a radioactive spider that fought bad guys in New York.


I mean, I read a Bat man comic book the other day that very clearly showed Batman in Boston trying to track down Raesh Al Ghul, that was real, right?

[Woo Bum-kon]

So? ok...so Judaism is nothing but a form of Christianity

No, it isn't. Judaism predated Christianity. If anything, the opposite is true.

[RandomGuy]

^ you're pivoting in your statement...while you acknowledge Biblical truth in tangible hard evidence you then become dismissive because you don't understand symbolism's, personifications, and the difference between figurative and literal meanings...

Not really.

I can acknowledge that some parts of the bible were fairly accurate in their portrayal of real events. That doesn't mean I have to accept every single thing in it as 100% true.

Even a broken analogue clock is right twice a day, but I am not gonna use it to try and figure out when I need to go to work.

[RD2191]

Most of what is known of the ancient world comes from the accounts of antiquity's own historians. Although it is important to take into account the bias of each ancient author, their accounts are the basis for our understanding of the ancient past. Some of the more notable ancient writers include Herodotus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus), Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides), Polybius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybius), Sima Qian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sima_Qian), Sallust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallust), Livy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livy), Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus), Suetonius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius), and Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus).
The earliest known systematic historical thought emerged in ancient Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), beginning with Herodotus of Halicarnassus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus_of_Halicarnassus) (484–c. 425 BC).Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides) largely eliminated divine causality in his account of the war between Athens and Sparta,[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33) establishing a rationalistic element which set a precedent for subsequent Western historical writings. He was also the first to distinguish between cause and immediate origins of an event.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33)

[RD2191]

That is all you need and there is the proof. Do with it what you want. If you try to spin that shit then that's on you.

[RandomGuy]

So? ok...so Judaism is nothing but a form of Christianity which pretty much gets us back to square 1....use your brain Woo Bum....

Since we are on it, one other big problem is that the people who wrote about how well Jesus fit the prophecies knew the prophecies themselves.

Kinda easy to make the account fit when you can tweak it to do so.

Not proof in and of itself, but if you want to fool a bunch of people into believing something, you start with what they already believe and tell them how true that is...

Look up the term "confirmation bias". Same today as it was 2000+ years ago.

[Koolaid_Man]

No, it isn't. Judaism predated Christianity. If anything, the opposite is true.

are you retarded...go back and re-read...Judaism is a per-cursor to Christianity....you are rather clueless

[Clipper Nation]

are you retarded...go back and re-read...Judaism is a per-cursor to Christianity....you are rather clueless
That's exactly what he said, dumbass :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

That's exactly what he said, dumbass :lol

what he said was Judiasm wasn't a form of Christianity and he's wrong....your mama not in this thread so watch your language

[RandomGuy]

That is all you need and there is the proof. Do with it what you want. If you try to spin that shit then that's on you.

No it is not all I need and that isn't proof of anything.

If you want to try and prove that Jesus existed, that is laughably pathetic.

I don't have to spin shit if you can't even begin to prove that fairy tale with something other than some non sequitur bullshit from a long entry on ancient history you probably didn't read and would not have the critical thinking skills to evaluate even if you bothered to read the whole thing.

Time for bed. No more of my time tonight, but feel free to actually try to prove anything resembling a point.

1) tell me what you are trying to prove
2) give some reasonable definitions
and
3) show me some evidence, along with your own words as to how that evidence supports your assertion


When you can do that... wake me up. Until then, you got :jack

[RD2191]

:lmao You're a faggot. Can't even admit when you're wrong.

[Woo Bum-kon]

what he said was Judiasm wasn't a form of Christianity and he's wrong....your mama not in this thread so watch your language

Judaism isn't a form of Christianity, moron. Christianity's central tenet is that Jesus was the son of God, and Judaism doesn't accept that as true.

[RD2191]

Most of what is known of the ancient world comes from the accounts of antiquity's own historians. Although it is important to take into account the bias of each ancient author, their accounts are the basis for our understanding of the ancient past. Some of the more notable ancient writers include Herodotus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus), Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides), Polybius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybius), Sima Qian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sima_Qian), Sallust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallust), Livy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livy),Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus), Suetonius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius), and Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus).
The earliest known systematic historical thought emerged in ancient Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), beginning withHerodotus of Halicarnassus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus_of_Halicarnassus) (484–c. 425 BC). Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides) largely eliminated divine causality in his account of the war between Athens and Sparta,[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33) establishing a rationalistic element which set a precedent for subsequent Western historical writings. He was also the first to distinguish between cause and immediate origins of an event.[33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history#cite_note-Cochrane.2C_Charles_Norris_1929._p._179-33)

[RD2191]

OWNED

[Clipper Nation]

what he said was Judiasm wasn't a form of Christianity and he's wrong....your mama not in this thread so watch your language

But Judaism isn't a form of Christianity.... Christianity started out as a Jewish sect in the 1st century CE - if anything, Christianity is a form of Judaism....

[RD2191]

And what are you trying to prove dumbass? That Jesus did not exist? What the fuck have you posted that proves Jesus did not exist? LOL Fucking loser.:lmao

[RD2191]

The Christ myth theory (also known as the Jesus myth theory or Jesus mythicism) is the proposition that Jesus of Nazareth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) never existed but was invented by the Christian community around 100 CE.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst2003658-1) The idea was first put forward in the late 18th century and developed and popularised in the 19th by Bruno Bauer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Bauer).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst20008-2) Bauer's three-fold argument, which set the basis for most subsequent adherents to the theory, was as follows:


The New Testament, especially the gospels and the Pauline epistles, are of no historical value;
The failure of ancient non-Christian writers of the 1st century to mention Jesus shows that he did not exist;
Christianity was syncretistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretistic) and mythical in its beginnings.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst20009-3)

The idea was revived in the early 20th century by the British rationalist John M. Robertson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Robertson), in America by William Benjamin Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Benjamin_Smith), and in Germany by Arthur Drews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Drews);[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst200011-12-4)contemporary exponents include G. A. Wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Albert_Wells), Alvar Ellegård (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvar_Elleg%C3%A5rd), Thomas L. Brodie, Robert M. Price (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Price) and others with the writings of Wells emerging as the most thorough and sophisticated overview.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEStanton2002iii-5)
The Christ myth theory (or theories, allowing for the variations in the arguments) has failed to convince the vast majority of scholars, who "regard it as effectively refuted"[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst200016-6).

[RD2191]

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and most biblical scholars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_scholar) and classical historians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_antiquity) see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Ehrman285-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Grantmajority-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Burridge34-4)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-voorst16-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-DunnPaul35-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Stanton145-11) In antiquity, the existence of Jesus was never denied by those who opposed Christianity.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Rahner730-28)[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-voorst15-29) Robert E. Van Voorst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Van_Voorst) states that the idea of the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince virtually all scholars of many disciplines.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-voorst16-9) There is, however, widespread disagreement among scholars on the details of the life of Jesus mentioned in the gospel narratives, and on the meaning of his teachings.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-MAPowell168-5)
Geoffrey Blainey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Blainey) notes that a few scholars have argued that Jesus did not exist, but writes that Jesus' life was in fact "astonishingly documented" by the standards of the time - more so than any of his contemporaries - with numerous books, stories and memoirs written about him. The problem for the historian, wrote Blainey, is not therefore, determining whether Jesus actually existed, but rather in considering the "sheer multitude of detail and its inconsistencies and contradictions".[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-30) Although a very small number of modern scholars argue that Jesus never existed, that view is a distinct minority and virtually all scholars consider theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention as implausible.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-MAPowell168-5)[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Tuckett126-24)Christopher Tuckett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Tuckett) states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by Pontius Pilate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate) seem to be part of the bedrock of historical tradition, based on the availability of non-Christian evidence.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Tuckett126-24) Graham Stanton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Stanton) states that "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Stanton145-11)
A number of ancient non-Christian documents, such as Jewish and Greco-Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman) sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Blomberg431-31) These include the works of 1st-century Roman historians Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus) and Tacitus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus).[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Blomberg431-31)[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-32) Josephus scholarLouis H. Feldman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_H._Feldman) has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XX#Chapter_9) and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-JospehusM662-33)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-34)[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-35)[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-36) Bart D. Ehrman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman) states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources, including Josephus and Tacitus.[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-37)

[RD2191]

And why put it in my own words when the good folks over at Wiki have done such a good job? What more proof do you want? Much of what we know about the Roman Empire is written by Tacitus, yet when he mentions Jesus he is no longer a credible source? How do we know that Augustus existed? Did Tacitus make him up like made up Jesus? :lol

[Joseph Kony]

what he said was Judiasm wasn't a form of Christianity and he's wrong....your mama not in this thread so watch your language

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao wow

[Joseph Kony]

:lol wiki copypasta is ownage

[RD2191]

Are you afraid to read it because it won't fit your so called theory or beliefs? And are you a scholar? Do you do your own research? What books have you written on ancient history and the so called myth of Jesus?

Whatever you post will be something you got off of the internet just like me, so what's the difference?

[RD2191]

:lolTrying to come off as intelligent and enlightened when in reality you're a dumbass, go fuck yourself Kony.

[Woo Bum-kon]

People who believe in invisible sky daddies shouldn't call anybody else a dumbass.

[RD2191]

People who believe in invisible sky daddies shouldn't call anybody else a dumbass.
No rational rebuttal so you have to resort to childish antics and attack my beliefs.

[Woo Bum-kon]

No rational rebuttal so you have to resort to childish antics and attack my beliefs.

You just called somebody a dumbass in your previous post, and now you're whining about childish antics? The only things childish here are your religious beliefs. Aren't you too old for an imaginary friend?

[RD2191]

Oh and RandomGuy, the main advocate of your theory George Albert Wells never denies the existence of a preacher named Jesus who lived in ancient times. He is also known as anti religious and non objective in his thinking. Much of his work is biased and without any real merit. He is misconstruing the truth to fit his own agenda.

[Joseph Kony]

Kinda like those christian "scholars?" :lol

[RandomGuy]

feel free to actually try to prove anything resembling a point.

1) tell me what you are trying to prove
2) give some reasonable definitions
and
3) show me some evidence, along with your own words as to how that evidence supports your assertion


:lmao You're a faggot. Can't even admit when you're wrong.

What am I wrong about? Be specific.

[xmas1997]

Oh and RandomGuy, the main advocate of your theory George Albert Wells never denies the existence of a preacher named Jesus who lived in ancient times. He is also known as anti religious and non objective in his thinking. Much of his work is biased and without any real merit. He is misconstruing the truth to fit his own agenda.

When you read his text and examine his theory, it is easy to see what you are saying is true. It doesn't take rocket science to see that pretty quickly.
It makes you wonder who his target audience is, who would accept his claims? Someone either not very intelligent, or someone predisposed to believe that way.

[Spur|n|Austin]

No rational rebuttal so you have to resort to childish antics and attack my beliefs.

Childish antics? Attack? :lol you attacked albums I listed as good yesterday - you're god would disprove, you should go read your fable book aka the bible.

[Blake]

:lmao You're a faggot. Can't even admit when you're wrong.


OWNED


And what are you trying to prove dumbass? That Jesus did not exist? What the fuck have you posted that proves Jesus did not exist? LOL Fucking loser.:lmao

What a good Christian you are

[Leetonidas]

No rational rebuttal so you have to resort to childish antics and attack my beliefs.
That's pretty ironic considering you entered this thread unprovoked and started hurling insults

[RD2191]

Who said I was a Christian? Did I ever once say that I was a Christian? The main debate going on in this thread is if a man named Jesus existed in ancient times. I have yet to see anyone provide reliable evidence that such man did not exist.

[Joseph Kony]

Actually the main topic of the thread was originally that some guy claimed he had proof Jesus didn't exist, which you immediately dismissed as non-credible despite the author of the claim being, most likely, much more well-versed on the subject and knowledgeable than you. Much of the actual debate in this thread is about the validity of the proof of his existence, the existence of god itself, and the all the religions that pre-date these myths that are discredited. All you've really contributed is childish insults, ad hominem, a plethora of logical fallacies, and the ultimate admission of defeat through the claim that you just have "faith." You also argue from the point of view of a christian, so it's not a stretch to logically assume that you are one, considering your postings in this thread and your admission of faith. I know logic eludes the religious but for the rest of us it's easy to make logical assumptions.

Really the topic is pointless because it's been derailed and I assume the intended discussion was supposed to be the repercussions of the claim if it were true and the fact that someone has what he claims is evidence that Jesus didn't exist and planned to reveal that at a conference on the 19th. I'm not really sure how you can discredit him because for one, he hasn't held the conference yet so he hasn't presented all of his evidence. You just focused on the few things he referenced and got your panties in a wad because someone out there doesn't think the way you do, thus you began lashing out and attacking others. You've also twisted people's words and distracted from their main points. You have no idea how to contribute thoughtfully to a discussion, you just stick your fingers in your ears and respond with LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU HEARS SOME WIKIPEDIA COPYPASTA IT'S 100% FACT YOU ARE ALL STUPID I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG!!!

tl;dr: you're a faggot

[xmas1997]

Who said I was a Christian? Did I ever once say that I was a Christian? The main debate going on in this thread is if a man named Jesus existed in ancient times. I have yet to see anyone provide reliable evidence that such man did not exist.

I thought the debate was over the validity of the textual subject matter, which draws into question the credibility of the writer in order to establish that validity.

[RD2191]

Actually the main topic of the thread was originally that some guy claimed he had proof Jesus didn't exist, which you immediately dismissed as non-credible despite the author of the claim being, most likely, much more well-versed on the subject and knowledgeable than you. Much of the actual debate in this thread is about the validity of the proof of his existence, the existence of god itself, and the all the religions that pre-date these myths that are discredited. All you've really contributed is childish insults, ad hominem, a plethora of logical fallacies, and the ultimate admission of defeat through the claim that you just have "faith."

Really the topic is pointless because it's been derailed and I assume the intended discussion was supposed to be the repercussions of the claim if it were true and the fact that someone has what he claims is evidence that Jesus didn't exist and planned to reveal that at a conference on the 19th. I'm not really sure how you can discredit him because for one, he hasn't held the conference yet so he hasn't presented all of his evidence. You just focused on the few things he referenced and got your panties in a wad because someone out there doesn't think the way you do, thus you began lashing out and attacking others. You've also twisted people's words and distracted from their main points. You have no idea how to contribute thoughtfully to a discussion, you just stick your fingers in your ears and respond with LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU HEARS SOME WIKIPEDIA COPYPASTA IT'S 100% FACT YOU ARE ALL STUPID I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG!!!

tl;dr: you're a faggot
The Christ myth theory (also known as the Jesus myth theory or Jesus mythicism) is the proposition that Jesus of Nazareth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus)never existed but was invented by the Christian community around 100 CE.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst2003658-1) The idea was first put forward in the late 18th century and developed and popularised in the 19th by Bruno Bauer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Bauer).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst20008-2) Bauer's three-fold argument, which set the basis for most subsequent adherents to the theory, was as follows:



The New Testament, especially the gospels and the Pauline epistles, are of no historical value;
The failure of ancient non-Christian writers of the 1st century to mention Jesus shows that he did not exist;
Christianity was syncretistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretistic) and mythical in its beginnings.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst20009-3)


The idea was revived in the early 20th century by the British rationalist John M. Robertson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Robertson), in America by William Benjamin Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Benjamin_Smith), and in Germany by Arthur Drews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Drews);[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst200011-12-4)contemporary exponents include G. A. Wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Albert_Wells), Alvar Ellegård (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvar_Elleg%C3%A5rd), Thomas L. Brodie, Robert M. Price (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Price) and others with the writings of Wells emerging as the most thorough and sophisticated overview.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEStanton2002iii-5)
The Christ myth theory (or theories, allowing for the variations in the arguments) has failed to convince the vast majority of scholars, who "regard it as effectively refuted"[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVoorst200016-6).

:hat

[RD2191]

I thought the debate was over the validity of the textual subject matter, which draws into question the credibility of the writer in order to establish that validity.
Even so, much of what we know of ancient Rome is written by the very reliable Roman Historian Tacitus. Tacitus mentions Jesus in The Annals, no one questions that Augustus existed, so why do they question that Jesus existed? Is Tacitus no longer a reliable source? Did Tacitus make all of Rome up?

[RD2191]

*Ancient Rome

[Joseph Kony]

Considering the vast majority of Biblical scholars are most likely adherents of the Bible, that's not really surprising. Nice "evidence." Most people in the world don't believe in the christian god or that jesus was a messiah or savior/divine figure, so I guess they're right then by your logic. :lol The majority of scholars used to believe the world was flat and that the sun and planets orbited the earth which was the center of the universe. How did that work out?

[Joseph Kony]

Even so, much of what we know of ancient Rome is written by the very reliable Roman Historian Tacitus. Tacitus mentions Jesus in The Annals, no one questions that Augustus existed, so why do they question that Jesus existed? Is Tacitus no longer a reliable source? Did Tacitus make all of Rome up?

So what you're saying is, because some historians have a level of credibility, everything they say you believe 100% without a doubt and all of their observations or recordings are 100% true and factual? :lmao

[RD2191]

Considering the vast majority of Biblical scholars are most likely adherents of the Bible, that's not really surprising. Nice "evidence." Most people in the world don't believe in the christian god or that jesus was a messiah or savior/divine figure, so I guess they're right then by your logic. :lol The majority of scholars used to believe the world was flat and that the sun and planets orbited the earth which was the center of the universe. How did that work out?
“He stretches out the northern sky over empty space,
suspending the earth upon nothing.”
Job 26:7 [

“There is One who
dwells above the
circle of the earth.”
Isaiah 40:22

[RD2191]

So what you're saying is, because some historians have a level of credibility, everything they say you believe 100% without a doubt and all of their observations or recordings are 100% true and factual? :lmao
Are you mentally retarded? Just shut the fuck up, you're a fucking clown.

[RD2191]

So what you're saying is, because some historians have a level of credibility, everything they say you believe 100% without a doubt and all of their observations or recordings are 100% true and factual? :lmao
So according to you, Rome or Augustus never existed? :lmao

[I. Hustle]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mandatory.com/media/2013/01/tumblrmh3634phiv1rpj04no1500.gif

[Joseph Kony]

So according to you, Rome or Augustus never existed? :lmao

More red herring/strawman for the dumbass that provides bible passages as his evidence :lol this is just like how you claimed RG said the vast majority of scholars don't believe Jesus existed when he said no such thing. :lol Unlike your fairy tale, this is tons of empirical evidence that Rome existed, considering it still does and there are still ancient buildings from the time period standing. You have no idea how to make a legitimate argument or comeback

The vaaaast majority of current day scientists (people that are far more intelligent than you could ever hope to be and know/study things that your peanut brain wouldn't even be able to comprehend) agree that the bible is horseshit, the universe was created through the singularity of the big bang, and that evolution over billions of years led us to where we are now, not some bearded narcissist shaping humans out of dirt and ribs. :lol So I can play that game too and shit all over your religious views anyway. I'll take the word of people who actually perform and practice modern science over the beliefs and faith of some lower class uneducated gnsf on ST or his supporting evidence consisting of wiki quotes and bible verses.

[RD2191]

blah blah blah, you're faggot ass got owned. quit crying already

[RD2191]

I never knew Tacitus and Josephus wrote passages in the Bible?

[RD2191]

And where are your sources, clown?

[Joseph Kony]

I'm not claiming that Jesus didn't exist, why do I need to post sources? You're the one asserting your silly opinion is true and respond with "this one guy believed it!" and citing bible verses. Neither of these are acceptable sources either here or especially in academia. I know you're probably furiously googling more fairy tale evidence to support your claim but you have no grasp of the actual discussion of this topic. Once again, you can only twist arguments, misquote people, post emoticons, or resort to personal insults. It's pretty clear to the vast majority of people here that you're a fucktard, and as you pointed out, majority of people believe it so it must be true

[Clipper Nation]

Just because Jesus probably existed doesn't mean your fairy tale book is 100% true-to-life.... it seems reasonable that the Jesus of the Bible is a fictionalized version of the real Jesus, unless you actually believe that he walked on water and revived himself from the tomb, in which case you're even more retarded than I thought :lol

[Blake]

blah blah blah, you're faggot ass got owned. quit crying already

Logical arguments isn't your thing.

But you're good at pretending you're not angry, so at least there's that.

[RD2191]

Logical arguments isn't your thing.

But you're good at pretending you're not angry, so at least there's that.
Stop being so bitter, move on, I'm sure your wife did.

[Blake]

Stop being so bitter, move on, I'm sure your wife did.

Damn you're good at it

[xmas1997]

Guess this thread needs a little hydro too.

[ismael-robert]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dn7azfzNYo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8Dn7azfzNYo
This guy would have a problem with your superficial thinking that there's something wrong with being born with no arms or legs then blaming God

[The Reckoning]

sup mouse

[Skull-1]

Stop being so bitter, move on, I'm sure your wife did.
Ouch. Sting!

[xmas1997]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dn7azfzNYo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8Dn7azfzNYo
This guy would have a problem with your superficial thinking that there's something wrong with being born with no arms or legs then blaming God

Wondering where you went to Ismael, you must either not have much time to post, or are just bored of the banality of it all. :lol

[Clipper Nation]

You're an idiot, almost all historical scholars agree that Jesus Christ was an actual living person.
Hard to believe that this post was from a week ago and Jeebotardiaz is STILL melting down :lol

[Leetonidas]

Hard to believe that this post was from a week ago and Jeebotardiaz is STILL melting down :lol

I can't believe the same fucking threads are still on the first page of the club. smh

[xmas1997]

I can't believe the same fucking threads are still on the first page of the club. smh

I agree, but didn't you start this one? :lol

[Leetonidas]

I agree, but didn't you start this one? :lol

I didn't know the shitstorm it would cause :depressed

This from almost a week ago though, it's not like I just made it today after seeing all the other threads :lol

[xmas1997]

I didn't know the shitstorm it would cause :depressed

This from almost a week ago though, it's not like I just made it today after seeing all the other threads :lol

It's as fresh today as a new born babe! It defies time and space! :lol

[Blake]

Stop being so bitter, move on,

I'm not bitter, but you clearly are with your thread about bitching.


I'm sure your wife did.


I did, she did, but I'm sure you won't.