It's Pretty Simple...If You Believe In Right From Wrong - You Believe In God

[Koolaid_Man]

There are no other manuscripts (valiadted by dead sea scrolls) that spell out right from wrong or good from bad except the 10 Commandments as given to us by the prophet Noah...if you believe it's wrong to sleep with another man's wife then you believe in the Bible. If you believe it' wrong to steal, cheat, kill, etc...you're a believer in the Christ....Face it....you have no other basis for believing in morality except on the basis of what was handed down to you from Christianity throughout the ages...I dare anyone to logically dispute this...one cannot practice things of the law without first having being given the law... everything you do in life whether you publicly acknowledge it or not is rooted in the morality of Christianity....

[RD2191]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzxiyu8Btb1qj3i85.gif

[clambake]

if that were true, there would not have been anyone alive to read it.

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

Some countries have a "God" that tells them to kill Americans. Some people's "God" tells them it's ok to marry 14 year old children. Is that right? How does that fit into your completely ignorant argument?

[Koolaid_Man]

Some countries have a "God" that tells them to kill Americans. Is that right? How does that fit into your completely ignorant argument?

and some countries have a "God" that tells them it's ok to discriminate against black Americans.

but to answer your cheesy question my brother....the 3 branches or pillars of historical faith are:

Judiasm
Islam
Christianity

That explains it

[Blake]

There are no other manuscripts (valiadted by dead sea scrolls) that spell out right from wrong or good from bad except the 10 Commandments as given to us by the prophet Noah...

lol the prophet Noah.

10 commandments come from Exodus 20.

Exodus 21:

"2*`When thou buyest a Hebrew servant -- six years he doth serve."

If you follow God's law, you believe slavery is kool. Pretty simple.

[Koolaid_Man]

lol the prophet Noah.

10 commandments come from Exodus 20.

Exodus 21:

"2*`When thou buyest a Hebrew servant -- six years he doth serve."

If you follow God's law, you believe slavery is kool. Pretty simple.



I agree "slavery" in it's proper context is beneficial...it's just been perverted by the Caucus peoples

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

and some countries have a "God" that tells them it's ok to discriminate against black Americans.

but to answer your cheesy question my brother....the 3 branches or pillars of historical faith are:

Judiasm
Islam
Christianity

That explains it

The point is that every religion interprets the Bible and God differently. Some religions take every word literally, others use it from a very vague perspective. What is "right" to some is also "wrong" to others. Your argument is something that a 6th grader would write a book report on.

[I. Hustle]

Some countries have a "God" that tells them to kill Americans. Some people's "God" tells them it's ok to marry 14 year old children. Is that right? How does that fit into your completely ignorant argument?

Avante just pm'ed me asking where these countries are.

[Blake]

I agree "slavery" in it's proper context is beneficial...it's just been perverted by the Caucus peoples

How is slavery beneficial

[Koolaid_Man]

How is slavery beneficial

If done right and with love it's can be a beneficial partnership...like i said whites perverted it...the Israelites were slaves in Egypt and lived very good lives...that's not to say modern day slavery would work..I'm just making a case the Bibilical slavery worked like a well oiled machine..it isn't until perversion sets in that it gets demented....otherwise poor or impoverished people get to earn a living...that's right real true slavery means paying your slaves a livable wage, giving them hrs off to be with their families and giving them perks...similar to today's workforce...m dead serious no BS'ing here

I'

[Blake]

If done right and with love it's can be a beneficial partnership...like i said whites perverted it...the Israelites were slaves in Egypt and lived very good lives...that's not to say modern day slavery would work..I'm just making a case the Bibilical slavery worked like a well oiled machine..it isn't until perversion sets in that it gets demented....otherwise poor or impoverished people get to earn a living...that's right real true slavery means paying your slaves a livable wage, giving them hrs off to be with their families and giving them perks...similar to today's workforce...m dead serious no BS'ing here

I'

And if the slave wants to leave his owner?

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

If done right and with love it's can be a beneficial partnership...like i said whites perverted it...the Israelites were slaves in Egypt and lived very good lives...that's not to say modern day slavery would work..I'm just making a case the Bibilical slavery worked like a well oiled machine..it isn't until perversion sets in that it gets demented....otherwise poor or impoverished people get to earn a living...that's right real true slavery means paying your slaves a livable wage, giving them hrs off to be with their families and giving them perks...similar to today's workforce...m dead serious no BS'ing here

I'

That's not slavery. That's employment. Those jobs are called housemaid and butler, and still exist today

[Koolaid_Man]

And if the slave wants to leave his owner?

the owner and slave should sit down and talk about it..make sure the slave is able to survive on his own....make sure he can provide for his family before leaving...that's how a mutually beneficial slave / owner partnership should work. It only gets bad if it gets perverted...for example if the Slave owner refuses to allow the slave to leave even if he isn't quite ready...that's called owning slaves with love irregardless the races involved....

all of this of course is in the context of an imperfect society

[DMC]

That's not slavery. That's employment. Those jobs are called housemaid and butler, and still exist today

Oh he knows. The folks he's pretending to be part of pretty much comprise most of the workforce prior to the Mexicans taking over.

[Brazil]

I did read some stupid stuff but this one win the prize tbh

[Blake]

for example if the Slave owner refuses to allow the slave to leave even if he isn't quite ready...that's called owning slaves with love

:lol owning them for their own good

[Brazil]

Better start reading Rousseau, Kant and some others...

[cute_spursfan]

what ive come to know is this:
fruity, faggot men are the most resistant to wanting to be saved...

why so?

[Clipper Nation]

OP with yet another retarded thread.... current research shows that people are born with an inherent knowledge of "good"/"bad" and "right"/"wrong" (as well as an inherent impulse towards bias and group identity, which is why some people turn out to be amoral)....

It certainly doesn't come from a book of fairy tales, that's for sure :lol

[Buddy Mignon]

what ive come to know is this:
fruity, faggot men are the most resistant to wanting to be saved...

why so?


That's not true at all. Let's test your theory. If a ship sinks... you won't find the faggots running around saving the women and children. Real men have too much pride to let another man save him if he can save himself.

[mouse]

why is it always about Coke or Pepsi, there is Sprite.

[Koolaid_Man]

what ive come to know is this:
fruity, faggot men are the most resistant to wanting to be saved...

why so?

you're so sexy when you talk bad

[Rogue]

I don't believe in God but I believe in my Goddess.

[xmas1997]

why is it always about Coke or Pepsi, there is Sprite.

Or 7up, or Canada Dry Ginger Ale?
Grapette? Hippo sodas?
Don't know why these characters sure love ridiculing each other so much.
Do they get some sort of perverse pleasure from it?
What's up with that?

[Slomo]

There are no other manuscripts (valiadted by dead sea scrolls) that spell out right from wrong or good from bad except the 10 Commandments as given to us by the prophet Noah...if you believe it's wrong to sleep with another man's wife then you believe in the Bible. If you believe it' wrong to steal, cheat, kill, etc...you're a believer in the Christ....Face it....you have no other basis for believing in morality except on the basis of what was handed down to you from Christianity throughout the ages...I dare anyone to logically dispute this...one cannot practice things of the law without first having being given the law... everything you do in life whether you publicly acknowledge it or not is rooted in the morality of Christianity....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1439171211?ie=UTF8&tag=kenperrott&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1439171211

[Koolaid_Man]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1439171211?ie=UTF8&tag=kenperrott&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1439171211

Slomo trying to be gangsta by posting a link without providing commentary...I like that Slomo :lol ...but it's more of my style....but science is a bit late or slow to the game...historically speaking we learned right from wrong based on Christianity and it's predecessor Judaism...science is nothing but the output of Christianity...long before we knew scientifically that the earth was round the Bible said this:


“He… hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7

Science just confirmed this to be true...science doesn't teach morality it teaches outcomes of it...(for example penis inside vagina = good feeling)


I will take a look at the book.

[Blake]

Slomo trying to be gangsta by posting a link without providing commentary...I like that Slomo :lol ...but it's more of my style....but science is a bit late or slow to the game...historically speaking we learned right from wrong based on Christianity and it's predecessor Judaism...science is nothing but the output of Christianity...long before we knew scientifically that the earth was round the Bible said this:


“He… hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7

Science just confirmed this to be true...science doesn't teach morality it teaches outcomes of it...(for example penis inside vagina = good feeling)


I will take a look at the book.

The Bible also said there was a flood that wiped out the earth

The Bible also said that penis into man ass = death.

[Leetonidas]

It's like this dumbass doesn't realize that there are other religions that pre-date the shitty foreskin cutting, homophobic, bigoted, wife-beating, and infidel murdering Abrahamic religions by quite a long time. :lol Then again OP is a retard and most likely believes the earth is 6000 years old and that thunder is caused by angels bowling in heaven :lol

[xmas1997]

It's like this dumbass doesn't realize that there are other religions that pre-date the shitty foreskin cutting, homophobic, bigoted, wife-beating, and infidel murdering Abrahamic religions by quite a long time. :lol Then again OP is a retard and most likely believes the earth is 6000 years old and that thunder is caused by angels bowling in heaven :lol

The only one older than Judaism is Hinduism, unless you include the beliefs of the early Americans (Incan, Mayan) and Australian Aborigines.

[Clipper Nation]

The only one older than Judaism is Hinduism, unless you include the beliefs of the early Americans (Incan, Mayan) and Australian Aborigines.
:lol That's like saying the only Ford car that existed before the 2014 Explorer is the Model T, unless you include all the other cars they've made....

[Koolaid_Man]

It's like this dumbass doesn't realize that there are other religions that pre-date the shitty foreskin cutting, homophobic, bigoted, wife-beating, and infidel murdering Abrahamic religions by quite a long time. :lol Then again OP is a retard and most likely believes the earth is 6000 years old and that thunder is caused by angels bowling in heaven :lol


wrong...the earth is billions of years old....Humans on the earth? that's different...we only have ~6k yrs of recorded history....

the other religions that "pre-date" tell me what societal values have they shaped....Hinduism...just look at India and that nasty river they bathe in....Christianity appears to be as sweet as apple pie in helping Mankind progress...it's the religion that allowed America to emerge as the world power and it appears that if it's principals are truly followed then others can benefit greatly...I don't see how Hinduism has benefited the world except for that sexy looking red dot between their eyes...all those people are trying to get to America the "Christian Nation" :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

The Bible also said there was a flood that wiped out the earth

The Bible also said that penis into man ass = death.

and I believe the account of the global deluge...and I also believe that life would cease to exist in Homosexuality were the hallmark of God's creation...the Bible doesn't single out Timmy....my lifestyle of fornication is also a means for death...but since I'm a believer I can eventually repent and be forgiven...that's the beauty of it :lol

[RandomGuy]

10 Commandments as given to us by the prophet Noah.

:LMAO


24 Then the Lord said to him, “Away! Get down and then come up, you and Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, lest He break out against them.” 25 So Moses went down to the people and spoke to them.

bla bla bla

[RandomGuy]

I agree "slavery" in it's proper context is beneficial...it's just been perverted by the Caucus peoples

"caucus" peoples?

[asked and answered--redacted]

[Clipper Nation]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzxiyu8Btb1qj3i85.gif
:lol But you insist you're not a Jeebotard.....

[RandomGuy]

the owner and slave should sit down and talk about it..make sure the slave is able to survive on his own....make sure he can provide for his family before leaving...that's how a mutually beneficial slave / owner partnership should work. It only gets bad if it gets perverted...for example if the Slave owner refuses to allow the slave to leave even if he isn't quite ready...that's called owning slaves with love irregardless the races involved....

all of this of course is in the context of an imperfect society

Sorry buddy that isn't how slavery in the bible is outlined.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

Jephthah Burns His Daughter



"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."



"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

God Commands Burning Humans



[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

Josiah and Human Sacrifice



At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)



He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

Burn Nonbelievers



"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

[RandomGuy]

2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)



They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

[RandomGuy]

3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)



As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

[RandomGuy]

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)



If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

[RandomGuy]

5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)



If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

[RandomGuy]

6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)



Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

[RandomGuy]

7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)



"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

[RandomGuy]

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

[RandomGuy]

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

[RandomGuy]

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

[RandomGuy]

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

[Blake]

God loves the non believer, just hates the non belief.

he loves us, just hates that we have to burn forever.

[RandomGuy]

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

[Blake]

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Still my favorite

[RandomGuy]

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

[RandomGuy]

Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)

[RD2191]

RandomGuy, why does any of this even matter if God supposedly doesn't exist?

[RandomGuy]

God loves the non believer, just hates the non belief.

he loves us, just hates that we have to burn forever.

Yeah, it is a bit like the guy who beats his wife and kids because he "loves them".

I could go on with more stuff.

The bible is a failure when it comes to showing what is "moral" and what isn't.

[RandomGuy]

RandomGuy, why does any of this even matter if God supposedly doesn't exist?

You did read the OP, yes?

[RD2191]

Simple question, if he does not exist then why does it matter?

[RandomGuy]

If you believe it' wrong to ... kill, etc...you're a believer in the Christ..




Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves.


You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)


Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

[Clipper Nation]

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
:lol Shit like this really illustrates how horribly written much of the Bible is, if you ignore the historical significance and just focus on the plot.... two random-ass "shebears" tearing people limb from limb? What the fuck? :lol

[RandomGuy]

Simple question, if he does not exist then why does it matter?

It matters because there are people that claim they get their morality from the bible.

The bible is not a source of morals.

Answer this question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?

[RandomGuy]

Simple question, if he does not exist then why does it matter?

Or alternately:

How do you know what is moral?

[Leetonidas]

Koolaid man trying to using the Bible as his evidence but doesn't realize who Noah was :lmao thanks for proving that you've never read it like the other 95% of christians and just spout off nonsensical garbage because it supports your insane point of view

[Leetonidas]

:lol Shit like this really illustrates how horribly written much of the Bible is, if you ignore the historical significance and just focus on the plot.... two random-ass "shebears" tearing people limb from limb? What the fuck? :lol

that ismael-robert jeebotard should be in any moment to explain how it's not to be taken literally and that it's a parable with some kind of deeper, insightful meaning

[Slomo]

Slomo trying to be gangsta by posting a link without providing commentary...I like that Slomo :lol ...but it's more of my style....but science is a bit late or slow to the game...historically speaking we learned right from wrong based on Christianity and it's predecessor Judaism...science is nothing but the output of Christianity...long before we knew scientifically that the earth was round the Bible said this:


“He… hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7

Science just confirmed this to be true...science doesn't teach morality it teaches outcomes of it...(for example penis inside vagina = good feeling)


I will take a look at the book.

Your point is that if you're a moral person, then you believe in God. The church also quotes the definition of moral values as one of the main achievement and raison d'etre of organized religion.
The book however makes a strong claim that morale societies will thrive faster and more successfully than immoral ones, which means that even without organized religion society would promote a very similar set of moral values simply because it is good for its survival and expansion.

[101A]

I attended a Bah Mitzvah last year - only time I've heard a Rabii "preach". He knew there were many Christians (and frankly atheists as well - the boy was the son of a popular professor), so he spoke right to us. Told us in no uncertain terms that to read the Torah (old testament, essentially) and NOT interpret it, was to be an idiot. It was written TO be interpreted, debated and discussed. He showed me his personal Torah, handed down for generations - it was fascinating; there were notes in the margins written by every rabii who had ever had it; and they went back HUNDREDS of years. He said he would read those notes as much, or more than, the text itself.

The bible is a product of man. There is no denying this. People who do, deceive themselves - hell just reading various translations of the SAME bible can give VERY different meanings.

(meant to quote RG's post containing several Old Testament verses - didn't pay attention that those were quotes themselves, so they didn't show up)

[101A]

Or alternately:

How do you know what is moral?


Instinct (and if you subscribe to CS Lewis's teachings, that instinct is itself proof of God). An argument, however, could easily be made that that ingrained morality in Humans is the result of evolution....being necessary to live together in complex societies

[Leetonidas]

Simple question, if he does not exist then why does it matter?

Is this a serious question? I dunno, maybe because of all the jeebotards like you who elect jeebotard reps to promote and lobby for jeebotard laws and policies? This imaginary friend of yours, despite his non-existence, is a pretty prevalent theme in American society, it's every where you look. Shit, an atheist alcoholic couldn't even go to AA without having religion shoved down his throat. I'll try not to be :cry such a meanie :cry to you though, I don't advocate fucking with the mentally handicapped, it's like stealing from a blind man. Your clinically ill brain blinds you to reason. It's not your fault, your parents poisoned your mind when you were young and you swallowed it hole like most children. Unfortunately your brain was too weak to ever recover and think for yourself, and for that, I truly feel sorry for you. Like I said before, I hope one day you can live a normal life with a fully functioning brain like the rest of us. It's pretty nice

[The Reckoning]

no way that shebear thing is in the bible :lol


holy shit it is! lmao

[RD2191]

Is this a serious question? I dunno, maybe because of all the jeebotards like you who elect jeebotard reps to promote and lobby for jeebotard laws and policies? This imaginary friend of yours, despite his non-existence, is a pretty prevalent theme in American society, it's every where you look. Shit, an atheist alcoholic couldn't even go to AA without having religion shoved down his throat. I'll try not to be :cry such a meanie :cry to you though, I don't advocate fucking with the mentally handicapped, it's like stealing from a blind man. Your clinically ill brain blinds you to reason. It's not your fault, your parents poisoned your mind when you were young and you swallowed it hole like most children. Unfortunately your brain was too weak to ever recover and think for yourself, and for that, I truly feel sorry for you. Like I said before, I hope one day you can live a normal life with a fully functioning brain like the rest of us. It's pretty nice
Like me? I lobby for laws? Since when?:lol You don't know me or what I am about. And you know my parents? That's kick ass. Did they forget to tell you that they aren't religious or even read the Bible?

[Koolaid_Man]

Your point is that if you're a moral person, then you believe in God. The church also quotes the definition of moral values as one of the main achievement and raison d'etre of organized religion.
The book however makes a strong claim that morale societies will thrive faster and more successfully than immoral ones, which means that even without organized religion society would promote a very similar set of moral values simply because it is good for its survival and expansion.

I'm bout to staight get into some immoral kinky activity in bout 5 min. It will be a quicky...then imma get me something to eat. After that i will address you, leets, and that crazy dude posting all that old testament stuff...i got answers for it all.

[Blake]

no way that shebear thing is in the bible :lol


holy shit it is! lmao

:lol

[Leetonidas]

I'm bout to staight get into some immoral kinky activity in bout 5 min. It will be a quicky...then imma get me something to eat. After that i will address you, leets, and that crazy dude posting all that old testament stuff...i got answers for it all.

the bible says that premarital sex is wrong and immoral. therefore you're not moral so you must not believe in god. :lol silly koolaids

[Clipper Nation]

Like me? I lobby for laws? Since when?

You may not lobby for certain laws, but the religion that you're semen-shielding for undeniably does....

[RandomGuy]

Instinct (and if you subscribe to CS Lewis's teachings, that instinct is itself proof of God). An argument, however, could easily be made that that ingrained morality in Humans is the result of evolution....being necessary to live together in complex societies

I generally don't subscribe to circular logic. :)

I don't think instinct is really quite enough to capture the entire process. There has to be an element of reason there as well.

[RandomGuy]

It matters because there are people that claim they get their morality from the bible.

The bible is not a source of morals.

Answer this question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


[non-answer]


Sorry, this is the kind of question that you don't get to ignore.

I will ask it again for a second time:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



If you don't like that one, then here is an alternate:

Is it moral to drown babies?

I would also accept an answer from the OP. What about it Kool aid man, you gonna man up or play chickenshit on this one?

[101A]

I generally don't subscribe to circular logic. :)

Nor do I....That's why I'm so logical. :spin


I don't think instinct is really quite enough to capture the entire process. There has to be an element of reason there as well.

Agreed - but reasonableness is also ingrained (or not - as many posters demonstrate on a moment to moment basis)

Essentially we are talking Enlightened Self Interest, are we not?

[101A]

Sorry, this is the kind of question that you don't get to ignore.

I will ask it again for a second time:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



If you don't like that one, then here is an alternate:

Is it moral to drown babies?

I would also accept an answer from the OP. What about it Kool aid man, you gonna man up or play chickenshit on this one?

Fellow Christians, you have been called out. You KNOW he is pulling from Old Testament passages - you also KNOW that those acts, in any context ARE immoral!!! Are you going to simply ignore him - is that what Jesus would have done? RG is calling you out; As he said; Man UP!!

[RD2191]

RandomGuy, do some research and you will find that what your are claiming is wrong and taken completely out of context.

[RandomGuy]

It matters because there are people that claim they get their morality from the bible.

The bible is not a source of morals.

Answer this question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


[non-answer]


Sorry, this is the kind of question that you don't get to ignore.

I will ask it again for a second time:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



RandomGuy, do some research and you will find that what your are claiming is wrong and taken completely out of context.

It is a pretty straightforward, basic question, that should be easy to answer. Feel free to ask me if you want, I will give you an answer the first time you ask it.

For the third time, yes or no:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?

[101A]

RandomGuy, do some research and you will find that what your are claiming is wrong and taken completely out of context.


Weak.

Seriously.

[101A]

It is not moral to slit the throat of a child.

It's really simple, robdiaz2191.

[RD2191]

Have you studied the book of Hosea, RandomGuy?

[RandomGuy]

It matters because there are people that claim they get their morality from the bible.

The bible is not a source of morals.

Answer this question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


[non-answer]


Sorry, this is the kind of question that you don't get to ignore.

I will ask it again for a second time:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



RandomGuy, do some research and you will find that what your are claiming is wrong and taken completely out of context.


It is a pretty straightforward, basic question, that should be easy to answer. Feel free to ask me if you want, I will give you an answer the first time you ask it.

For the third time, yes or no:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


Have you studied the book of Hosea, RandomGuy?

That is not an answer to my question, that is evasive bullshit, and you know it. If you can't do me the courtesy of answering something simple, I am not going to give you the courtesy of a reply to yours.

For the fourth time a simple yes or no question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?

[RandomGuy]

It is not moral to slit the throat of a child.

It's really simple, robdiaz2191.

Pretty much. The inability to answer a simple question puts one in the corner with Cosmored. Not quite the company anybody with any self-respect would want to keep.

[RD2191]

Well I need to know if you've read the book of Hosea?

[Clipper Nation]

Wow, Jeebotardiaz is a sick fuck.... so married to his fairy tale book that he can't even admit that slitting a child's throat is wrong....

[101A]

Well I need to know if you've read the book of Hosea?


You're acting like a Pharisee.

Think about it.

[RandomGuy]

It matters because there are people that claim they get their morality from the bible.

The bible is not a source of morals.

Answer this question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


[non-answer]


Sorry, this is the kind of question that you don't get to ignore.

I will ask it again for a second time:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



RandomGuy, do some research and you will find that what your are claiming is wrong and taken completely out of context.


It is a pretty straightforward, basic question, that should be easy to answer. Feel free to ask me if you want, I will give you an answer the first time you ask it.

For the third time, yes or no:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?


Have you studied the book of Hosea, RandomGuy?


That is not an answer to my question, that is evasive bullshit, and you know it. If you can't do me the courtesy of answering something simple, I am not going to give you the courtesy of a reply to yours.

For the fourth time a simple yes or no question:

Is it moral to slit the throat of a child?



Well I need to know if you've read the book of Hosea?

Pwd.

You did it to yourself.

The answer is no, it is not moral. I can answer that easily.

You can't.

I can conclude based on an inability to answer that question:

1) You are a lying, dishonest sack of shit.
--only lying dishonest sack of shit would run away from that question.

or

2) You think the answer is yes, making you an evil, sick fuck, but don't want to admit to the world you are that sick and twisted.


I have no interest in talking to either lying sacks of shit, or evil, sick fucks. I will not answer your question.

Maybe coolaid man can give me an answer.

[xmas1997]

And where is any of this crap in the New Testament?

[mouse]

Pwd.
You are a lying, dishonest sack of shit. an evil, sick fuck,

I just remembered why I would avoid debating with RG

[mouse]

And where is any of this crap in the New Testament?

That blue book you found on the DNA infested nightstand by the bed at the Super 8 Motel your staying at is called the book of Mormon,
it might not have the same info as the Book they are referring to in this discussion......, let me PM Angel Luv to make sure.

[xmas1997]

That blue book you found on the DNA infested nightstand by the bed at the Super 8 Motel your staying at is called the book of Mormon,
it might not have the same info as the Book they are referring to in this discussion......, let me PM Angel Luv to make sure.

:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Shit like this really illustrates how horribly written much of the Bible is, if you ignore the historical significance and just focus on the plot.... two random-ass "shebears" tearing people limb from limb? What the fuck? :lol

the problem is you guys don't have proper context for many of this old testament stuff...and your making false assumptions and judgments based on lack of context...here's the explanation for it...


This passage rather clearly seems to fall under the genre of fable, or morality tale. Kind of like a fable of Aesop, the point is that Elisha was a great prophet and you shouldn’t despise prophets no matter how difficult their words are. I could see this story passed on to children as a story about honoring prophets.


Understanding genre allows us to sidestep the ridiculous contortions that cause people to make everything that appears like history in the Old Testament to be history as we understand it today. This passage neither intends history as we know it, nor is necessarily even written for that purpose. Understanding the role that oral transmission of legends and stories played in the ancient world can allow us both to have a laugh and understand something about the purpose of this story without justifying the historical Elisha for murdering children for making fun of him.

[Koolaid_Man]

Koolaid man trying to using the Bible as his evidence but doesn't realize who Noah was :lmao thanks for proving that you've never read it like the other 95% of christians and just spout off nonsensical garbage because it supports your insane point of view

Leets in all honesty I did that on purpose....I just wanted to get a rise out of someone....and it worked :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

the bible says that premarital sex is wrong and immoral. therefore you're not moral so you must not believe in god. :lol silly koolaids

I believe..I'm just a sinner....lost and trying to find my way back....

[Koolaid_Man]

If I had to bet, I would bet you have sucked on a dildo once or twice in your lifetime.

once....was just playing around with my girl....:lmao ahhhhh sike just kidding

[xmas1997]

Anyone who takes the OT literally is reaching IMHO.
And the NT to a certain extent too.

[Koolaid_Man]

To Random guy posting all that old testament stuff here is my pastoral response on why God allowed War in the Old Testament


Imagine you're a daycare teacher with a room full of children.

You have grown quite attached to all of your kids and they all have a place in your heart. Most of them get along fine, but others don't seem to be able to play nice with others. These few misbehaving children are hurting other children, taking their toys, hitting them, calling names, spitting, and biting.

Would it be fair to the well-behaved kids to keep the bad kids around? No. You'd at least send them to another room or put them in time-out.

In the stories of the Old Testament, God isn't dealing with kids who couldn't play nice. He was dealing with adults who would steal and murder the Israelites. They were vicious and cruel to God's people. In many cases, the Israelites suffered through their attacks for a long time before God stepped in and put a stop to it. (See Exodus 34:7.)

So these acts of war were actually judgments of God against wicked men. The people who died in those wars, the ones fighting against Israel, had made their decisions. They had rejected God, so God brought judgment upon them. The big picture is, God has to deal with the wicked in order to preserve the righteous.

It is true that all human beings are God's children, but that doesn't save us in the end. Those who reject God's authority will have to die so that those who accept God's authority can live without fear and without pain. The ultimate judgment comes at the end, when all the wicked will be gone.

The destruction of the wicked, a seemingly strange act by a loving God, is actually a loving act for both parties. In fact, Isaiah calls God's retribution on the wicked God's "strange work," because God is, by nature, merciful, gracious, and long-suffering (Isaiah 28:21).

By destroying the wicked, God prevents them from living a life in which they would be miserable under His rule. By destroying the wicked, God saves the righteous too. With nobody wicked around, we can fully enjoy the peace of paradise with no fear.

Love is a two-sided coin: on one side is mercy. He gives the righteous mercy because they have repented of their sins and decided to follow God. The righteous benefit from God's mercy in that they are allowed to live forever in paradise.

The other side of the coin of love is justice. He metes out justice to the wicked because they have decided they don't want to live in God's kingdom. The righteous also benefit from God's justice, in that they will not have to suffer their cruelties.
Pastor Doug

[Blake]

Anyone who takes the OT literally is reaching IMHO.
And the NT to a certain extent too.

cherry pickin'

[mouse]

cherry pickin'


Virgin licking?

[xmas1997]

cherry pickin'


And .........

[ChumpDumper]

Pwd.

You did it to yourself.

The answer is no, it is not moral. I can answer that easily.

You can't.

I can conclude based on an inability to answer that question:

1) You are a lying, dishonest sack of shit.
--only lying dishonest sack of shit would run away from that question.

or

2) You think the answer is yes, making you an evil, sick fuck, but don't want to admit to the world you are that sick and twisted.


I have no interest in talking to either lying sacks of shit, or evil, sick fucks. I will not answer your question.

Maybe coolaid man can give me an answer.You're on the list, smart guy.

[Joseph Kony]

That blue book you found on the DNA infested nightstand by the bed at the Super 8 Motel your staying at is called the book of Mormon,
it might not have the same info as the Book they are referring to in this discussion......, let me PM Angel Luv to make sure.

:lol

[Joseph Kony]

To Random guy posting all that old testament stuff here is my pastoral response on why God allowed War in the Old Testament

So you have no opinion of your own then and continue to rip off other peoples words? At least it wasn't from bleacherreport this time :lol Think of your own response faggot, Pastor Doug would probably condemn your bitch ass for being a welshing pussy :lmao

[xmas1997]

Oops! Another thread needing a fat potent joint!

[RandomGuy]

I just remembered why I would avoid debating with RG

Well, even you can answer the question:

Is it wrong to slit a child's throat?

[RandomGuy]

And where is any of this crap in the New Testament?


17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…

Jesus was OK with the old testament.

Sorry.

[RandomGuy]

To Random guy posting all that old testament stuff here is my pastoral response on why God allowed War in the Old Testament

That is some mental gymnastics right there.

My moral system allows me to answer simple questions quite easily. Yours doesn't.

Why is that?

The Bible/Torah God is a sick fuck, and you are apologizing for him drowning babies, and massacring children.

If God told you to slit the throats of everyone in a city men, women, and children, would you?

[RandomGuy]

So these acts of war were actually judgments of God against wicked men.

All God would have to do, is simply pinch off some carotid arteries, and have the righteous sweep in, collect and adopt the children, so that they may grow up in righteousness.

Pretty simple for a being that created the universe, one would think. My limited, flawed brain thought of a solution to the problem that didn't involve hacking kids to death.

I am now both smarter, and more moral than the Bible/Torah God.

[Koolaid_Man]

All God would have to do, is simply pinch off some carotid arteries, and have the righteous sweep in, collect and adopt the children, so that they may grow up in righteousness.

Pretty simple for a being that created the universe, one would think. My limited, flawed brain thought of a solution to the problem that didn't involve hacking kids to death.

I am now both smarter, and more moral than the Bible/Torah God.


He created (key word) the universe...he didn't just snap his fingers and it appeared even though he could have...creation takes time...so too with wars he could cause someone to just die instantly but he "allowed" his people to do their work....listen if he can create the universe I have to believe there's a good and just reason for his decisions....another thing...their is not that much chance in the world to say that the human body just evolved to have that much balance...and harmonious function..brain, heart, liver, kidneys, blood, venous system, reproductive system, eyes, ears, tongue, etc...and the animals have their own but similar structure... if you want to make a case that god is unjust then fine...but don't try to sell me on his non-existence...there's not that much chance in the universe that we could live and exist the way we do...the sun just 1 inch or degree closer to earth and we're all dead...that's design not chance....just because we don't understand WHY doesn't mean he's not there...

similiar to feeling the wind or looking at a crecent moon...you can see the crescent but you can't see the rest of the moon..doesn't mean it's not there...

[Blake]

And .........

If you're discarding some of the Bible, then you're also discarding the clear verse(s) that says the Bible is the infallible word of God.

Just sayin

[xmas1997]

Jesus was OK with the old testament.

Sorry.

I seriously doubt Jesus interpreted the OT in the same way you do.
And if you read His words concerning the OT as reported by His Apostles, then you would already be aware of that.

[Blake]

I seriously doubt Jesus interpreted the OT in the same way you do.
And if you read His words concerning the OT as reported by His Apostles, then you would already be aware of that.

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus took the OT literally.

some people like to claim he saw it as parables so that they excuse themselves from the crazy, bloodthirsty shit.

[Blake]

similiar to feeling the wind or looking at a crecent moon...you can see the crescent but you can't see the rest of the moon..doesn't mean it's not there...

I'm God. I created you so that you would take dumps in the nba forum.

[Koolaid_Man]

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus took the OT literally.

some people like to claim he saw it as parables so that they excuse themselves from the crazy, bloodthirsty shit.

prove it...just as with everything...some things literal, some figurative, some parables just like in the new testament...some anecdotes some personifications....you're fighting a losing battle on this one

[xmas1997]

If you're discarding some of the Bible, then you're also discarding the clear verse(s) that says the Bible is the infallible word of God.

Just sayin

I know you're "just saying", but making a claim that is clearly false to a rational thinking person.
1. You have no idea what I am discarding or not. Instead you are projecting what you think I am doing to satisfy your own biases.
2. You need to clarify what exactly "the bible" is, or more specifically which bible, before you determine what is or isn't the infallibility part of it.
I don't doubt that Gods word are infallible, and I don't doubt that much of His word is in the bible.
I do however doubt that our understanding of it Is infallible. I do doubt our interpretations of it are infallible. And I do doubt that the bible in its present format is complete and conclusive of ALL of Gods word, and that it has not been tampered with in order to confuse and influence many agendas besides Gods.

[DMC]

Anyone who takes the OT literally is reaching IMHO.
And the NT to a certain extent too.

That's progress for atheism when theists don't take the infallible word of their omniscient invisible sky buddy seriously.

[DMC]

I know you're "just saying", but making a claim that is clearly false to a rational thinking person.

holy Use Holy in a sentence (http://www.reference.com/example-sentences/holy)
ho·ly [hoh-lee] Show IPA adjective, ho·li·er, ho·li·est, noun, plural ho·lies.
adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground.

2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion): a holy man.

3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life.

4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love).

5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic.

If the Bible is holy, how can it also have errors? Are you trying to use ordinary standards to support extraordinary claims?




1. You have no idea what I am discarding or not. Instead you are projecting what you think I am doing to satisfy your own biases.

If you discount any of the Bible, you've discounted the Bible.


2. You need to clarify what exactly "the bible" is, or more specifically which bible, before you determine what is or isn't the infallibility part of it.

I am sure it's which ever bible you're referring to.


I don't doubt that Gods word are infallible, and I don't doubt that much of His word is in the bible.
I do however doubt that our understanding of it Is infallible. I do doubt our interpretations of it are infallible. And I do doubt that the bible in its present format is complete and conclusive of ALL of Gods word, and that it has not been tampered with in order to confuse and influence many agendas besides Gods.
Wouldn't that be God's will though?

[xmas1997]

That's progress for atheism when theists don't take the infallible word of their omniscient invisible sky buddy seriously.

So says you. That is purely your opinion.
And to argue over opinions is fruitless.
I never once said I didn't take His word as not being infallible.
If you were reading I said I did not take mans' word as being infallible, because it isn't.

[DMC]

He created (key word) the universe...he didn't just snap his fingers and it appeared even though he could have...creation takes time...so too with wars he could cause someone to just die instantly but he "allowed" his people to do their work....listen if he can create the universe I have to believe there's a good and just reason for his decisions....another thing...their is not that much chance in the world to say that the human body just evolved to have that much balance...and harmonious function..brain, heart, liver, kidneys, blood, venous system, reproductive system, eyes, ears, tongue, etc...and the animals have their own but similar structure... if you want to make a case that god is unjust then fine...but don't try to sell me on his non-existence...there's not that much chance in the universe that we could live and exist the way we do...the sun just 1 inch or degree closer to earth and we're all dead...that's design not chance....just because we don't understand WHY doesn't mean he's not there...

similiar to feeling the wind or looking at a crecent moon...you can see the crescent but you can't see the rest of the moon..doesn't mean it's not there...

What standard do you rely on to say "creation takes time"? Do you understand the concept of space/time? (stupid question). If so, you'd understand that time began to exist when space began to exist.

Where do you get this exclusive information about the beginning of the universe? Do you realize it's going to eventually reach heat death (entropy)? Is that God's perfect plan for the Earth (who's surface is mostly uninhabitable) or will the Earth be spared and given to the meek, as the Bible states?

Do you realize mankind existed 100K years or more prior to the earliest Christian writings? Did you know the Chinese were writing before that? Was God sitting around waiting for something for hundreds of thousands of years prior to saying "well, enough of that... let's flood this place and kill everything except these few people and let's do it in the middle east"?

I realize you're a really desperate troll of someone who posts here under another name, but I don't think either of your accounts knows shit about any of it.

[DMC]

So says you. That is purely your opinion.

It's not just an opinion. 100 years ago the bible was considered to be inerrant. Today people who claim to be theists admit the bible has errors. They've moved their god back to a more nebulous area to protect their faith in it.


And to argue over opinions is fruitless.

That the bible contains errors and cannot be taken literally (because it makes extraordinary, ridiculous claims and claims that are counter to current moral codes) is not an opinion. It's not a value statement. You only label it as such so you can attack it as such, ergo you made a strawman.


I never once said I didn't take His word as not being infallible.

Let's look at it:

God's word is infallible
If the bible is Gods word, then the Bible is infallible
The bible is God's word
The bible is infallible

What part of that is illogical? Which premise do you disagree with?


If you were reading I said I did not take mans' word as being infallible, because it isn't.
But then you said the bible is God's word.

Does God make mistakes? If not, how did God create a system where his word has been misrepresented for most of recorded civilization?

[xmas1997]

holy Use Holy in a sentence (http://www.reference.com/example-sentences/holy)
ho·ly [hoh-lee] Show IPA adjective, ho·li·er, ho·li·est, noun, plural ho·lies.
adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground.

2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion): a holy man.

3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life.

4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love).

5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic.

If the Bible is holy, how can it also have errors? Are you trying to use ordinary standards to support extraordinary claims?

If you discount any of the Bible, you've discounted the Bible.

I am sure it's which ever bible you're referring to.

Wouldn't that be God's will though?

Just because something is "holy" does not mean it cannot have errors.
First, who proclaimed it holy? A man or some men somewhere and at some time. They are not perfect.
There is nothing extraordinary about that, that is pretty much a given. I could easily say my tortillas are holy, and to me they may very well be that way, but that does not mean they are holy to anyone else! That is pretty much a subjective view and to be believed by each persons' discretion. We all have free wills.

Second, where is the rationale that just because you discount a part of something, that it follows that none of it cannot be truth? If you watch a movie based on real events, do you also think that everything in that movie is exactly according to the true events, exactly as it happened? No. Even biographies are somewhat fictionalized in order to maintain interest. This is a simple analogy, true, but it does illustrate my point.

Thirdly, the bible I am referring to may or may not exist in its present form today, in this day and age. It is what it is, comprised of what it is, and IMHO missing much information that was omitted and/or skewed to control certain factions that existed at the time in order to maintain a specific agenda. This would explain some of the differences between the various authors of each book in the bible. It doesn't explain any of the missing books that have since been discovered, but were not included, yet may be just as valid.

And fourthly, would any one presume to know exactly what Gods' Will is? I certainly wouldn't even if I thought I could. And even if I did it anyway, then it would be chock full of my own biases, my own agenda. That is human nature, and it would be folly at best.

[xmas1997]

It's not just an opinion. 100 years ago the bible was considered to be inerrant. Today people who claim to be theists admit the bible has errors. They've moved their god back to a more nebulous area to protect their faith in it.

That the bible contains errors and cannot be taken literally (because it makes extraordinary, ridiculous claims and claims that are counter to current moral codes) is not an opinion. It's not a value statement. You only label it as such so you can attack it as such, ergo you made a strawman.

Let's look at it:

God's word is infallible
If the bible is Gods word, then the Bible is infallible
The bible is God's word
The bible is infallible

What part of that is illogical? Which premise do you disagree with?

But then you said the bible is God's word.

Does God make mistakes? If not, how did God create a system where his word has been misrepresented for most of recorded civilization?

I said that Gods' word was in the bible. I did not say that ALL of Gods' word was in the bible. All I did was agree that His word was in there.
There is nothing straw man about having an opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I never made any value statements other than to say the IMHO God is infallible, man is imperfect, and so is the word of God infallible, some of which is in there and some as it is today is highly suspect to containing ALL of His word, and that much of it contains man's word. This is MY opinion, no straw man about it. You are entitled to your opinion about it as well.
God gave man a free will. Since God is infallible, then He makes no mistakes. Whereas man being imperfect and fallible, and with a free will is bound to make mistakes, thus mistakes in putting together His bible. Easy to figure that one out, not rocket science there. :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

What standard do you rely on to say "creation takes time"? Do you understand the concept of space/time? (stupid question). If so, you'd understand that time began to exist when space began to exist.

Where do you get this exclusive information about the beginning of the universe? Do you realize it's going to eventually reach heat death (entropy)? Is that God's perfect plan for the Earth (who's surface is mostly uninhabitable) or will the Earth be spared and given to the meek, as the Bible states?

Do you realize mankind existed 100K years or more prior to the earliest Christian writings? Did you know the Chinese were writing before that? Was God sitting around waiting for something for hundreds of thousands of years prior to saying "well, enough of that... let's flood this place and kill everything except these few people and let's do it in the middle east"?

I realize you're a really desperate troll of someone who posts here under another name, but I don't think either of your accounts knows shit about any of it.

are you Jesus....if not proof please?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

prove it...just as with everything...some things literal, some figurative, some parables just like in the new testament...some anecdotes some personifications....you're fighting a losing battle on this one

So let's just be clear here, Kool, cause there are certain things that if you take 'figuratively' it blows up the entire faith.

Do you believe that Mary was not impregnated by her betrothed but instead meiosis was started by an unseen intelligence acting in a nonsexual way?
Do you believe that Jesus heart and brain function stopped for more than 48 hours and then revived?

[DMC]

Just because something is "holy" does not mean it cannot have errors.

Holy errors?


First, who proclaimed it holy? A man or some men somewhere and at some time. They are not perfect.

Atheists have known this for quite some time. It's taken theists a long long time to come to grips with the fact that the entire god story is a man made thing, and because men lie and because men misinterpret things they see and hear (based on understanding and dogma of the era), and the lack of a convincing argument for the existence of a god, only the parts of the bible that can be backed up by historical records kept by other men can be validated. The rest is considered in the same light as you consider these erroneous parts.


There is nothing extraordinary about that, that is pretty much a given. I could easily say my tortillas are holy, and to me they may very well be that way, but that does not mean they are holy to anyone else! That is pretty much a subjective view and to be believed by each persons' discretion. We all have free wills.

You're taking an unconventional approach, but not a surprising one. You're distancing yourself from the claims of the church by having a hybrid belief system, one that allows you to reconcile your mystic belief with your understanding of science. Still, at some point you let go of the need for scientific method and just accept ridiculous claims on faith. Then again, theists do say their God is a personal God so I guess it stands to reason that each person can customize their beliefs to whatever makes them feel most comfortable. It doesn't jive with the historical approach of the Christian theologists or apologists however.


Second, where is the rationale that just because you discount a part of something, that it follows that none of it cannot be truth? If you watch a movie based on real events, do you also think that everything in that movie is exactly according to the true events, exactly as it happened? No. Even biographies are somewhat fictionalized in order to maintain interest. This is a simple analogy, true, but it does illustrate my point.

If the bible is no more than another book written by men, why should anyone trust it's content?


Thirdly, the bible I am referring to may or may not exist in its present form today, in this day and age. It is what it is, comprised of what it is, and IMHO missing much information that was omitted and/or skewed to control certain factions that existed at the time in order to maintain a specific agenda. This would explain some of the differences between the various authors of each book in the bible. It doesn't explain any of the missing books that have since been discovered, but were not included, yet may be just as valid.

Is this the same bible you used when you decided a god exists?


And fourthly, would any one presume to know exactly what Gods' Will is? I certainly wouldn't even if I thought I could. And even if I did it anyway, then it would be chock full of my own biases, my own agenda. That is human nature, and it would be folly at best.

How can things happen that are not God's will? If an omniscient God created the universe, then he knew what was going to happen and when because he designed it that way. Otherwise prophesy could not exist and it's rampant in the bible, and in fact theists point to prophesy all the time as evidence that the bible is the word of God.

If we play by your rules, that God exists, that God is all knowing, and that prophesy exists, then God's will must be done, it's destined.

We can debate free will vs determinism but you seem soft on the issue, like you don't want to commit to a position.

[DMC]

I said that Gods' word was in the bible. I did not say that ALL of Gods' word was in the bible. All I did was agree that His word was in there.
There is nothing straw man about having an opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I never made any value statements other than to say the IMHO God is infallible, man is imperfect, and so is the word of God infallible, some of which is in there and some as it is today is highly suspect to containing ALL of His word, and that much of it contains man's word. This is MY opinion, no straw man about it. You are entitled to your opinion about it as well.
God gave man a free will. Since God is infallible, then He makes no mistakes. Whereas man being imperfect and fallible, and with a free will is bound to make mistakes, thus mistakes in putting together His bible. Easy to figure that one out, not rocket science there. :lol

How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

[silverblk mystix]

How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Are Words and concepts = Reality?
Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.

[DMC]

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

Same with the flying spaghetti monster


What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Not really. It's the existence of a god, any god.


Are Words and concepts = Reality?

If not, how did you read my post?


Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Nonsensical gibberish


Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

There's no mystery. You give credence to the claim of existence of a god by calling it a mystery. There's been no unexplained phenomena that would be required for a mystery to exist. "How did it happen" is the mystery. "God did it" is the faux answer that is without evidence, reason or logic. The existence of the god isn't the mystery.


Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.

You obviously don't have the mental capacity to field ontological debates, so stick to fingering assholes.

[silverblk mystix]

Same with the flying spaghetti monster

Not really. It's the existence of a god, any god.

If not, how did you read my post?

Nonsensical gibberish

There's no mystery. You give credence to the claim of existence of a god by calling it a mystery. There's been no unexplained phenomena that would be required for a mystery to exist. "How did it happen" is the mystery. "God did it" is the faux answer that is without evidence, reason or logic. The existence of the god isn't the mystery.


You obviously don't have the mental capacity to field ontological debates, so stick to fingering assholes.


Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

[RD2191]

flying spaghetti monster? is that all you atheist got? its getting old, really. and your dumbass wants to talk about logic? a fish evolved into a monkey which in turn evolved into a human? that's logical?:lmao

[DMC]

Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

You're not qualified to debate me, as made evident by your place in society as an asshole inspector.

[DMC]

flying spaghetti monster? is that all you atheist got? its getting old, really. and your dumbass wants to talk about logic? a fish evolved into a monkey which in turn evolved into a human? that's logical?:lmao

Mouse already played the "post ignorant, nonsensical response" long ago.

[silverblk mystix]

Mouse already played the "post ignorant, nonsensical response" long ago.

Let me know if and when you would like to discuss a topic and learn something -until then - reveal your idiocy at will.

[xmas1997]

Holy errors?

Atheists have known this for quite some time. It's taken theists a long long time to come to grips with the fact that the entire god story is a man made thing, and because men lie and because men misinterpret things they see and hear (based on understanding and dogma of the era), and the lack of a convincing argument for the existence of a god, only the parts of the bible that can be backed up by historical records kept by other men can be validated. The rest is considered in the same light as you consider these erroneous parts.

You're taking an unconventional approach, but not a surprising one. You're distancing yourself from the claims of the church by having a hybrid belief system, one that allows you to reconcile your mystic belief with your understanding of science. Still, at some point you let go of the need for scientific method and just accept ridiculous claims on faith. Then again, theists do say their God is a personal God so I guess it stands to reason that each person can customize their beliefs to whatever makes them feel most comfortable. It doesn't jive with the historical approach of the Christian theologists or apologists however.

If the bible is no more than another book written by men, why should anyone trust it's content?

Is this the same bible you used when you decided a god exists?


How can things happen that are not God's will? If an omniscient God created the universe, then he knew what was going to happen and when because he designed it that way. Otherwise prophesy could not exist and it's rampant in the bible, and in fact theists point to prophesy all the time as evidence that the bible is the word of God.

If we play by your rules, that God exists, that God is all knowing, and that prophesy exists, then God's will must be done, it's destined.

We can debate free will vs determinism but you seem soft on the issue, like you don't want to commit to a position.


How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

First, allow me to say that I do not claim to be a theologian. And again I do not ask you to believe as I do.
Having stated that, yes, you are correct in that my beliefs are unorthodox. Hell, maybe I am in the new vanguard of Nuevo Christian or something equally unsure. I believe what I believe, and respect the beliefs of others without the age old condemnations of those who believe differently.
The truth is, belief in God can only truly be known subjectively in each one of us. That could be unconventional as well.

To answer your questions as best I can, yes, holy errors, batman. :lol I don't see how that is not a possibility, and most probably a very good probability.

Next, IMHO, no one should trust it's content, especially in light of it's history. What should be done is examine it critically using the tools we have at hand and arrive at your own conclusion based on that, as well as other tools, meditation, intensive study, scientific methodology, and your conscience. That should suffice.
By that time, you are better able a make an educated guess, than just dismissing something outright without at the very least going on someone else's word for it.

What I used was not just the Catholic, but also the King James Version, as well as what I've learned from some of the most recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I did not stop there. I used the Torah, the Kabala, texts from the Tanakh, the Koran, the Vedas and Bhagvad Gita, as well as teachings from Buddha, Celtic Druids, Wiccan, agnosticism, and anything I could find from early American Indians, and Australian Aborigines, etc., basically whatever I could get my hands on, and modern metaphysical writings.

I've already explained how and why things happen that are not Gods' Will. Remember free will? Remember being in His image and thus Creating our own realities, however imperfectly? IMHO He, by the very act of giving us free will, allows us to do this.
And what's more, free will cancels out Destiny. Does this stance, I your opinion, mean I am soft on the issue? I don't think so.
I believe Gods' words are contained in the bible because of all the methods I have used, scientific method, cross tabulation with other books, meditation, experiences in life, and my own conscience have shown me they are.
I cannot give you better answer than that because IMHO it isn't possible due to the subjective, rather than objective, nature of it. You seem to want concrete proof, and no one on this planet can give you that, except yourself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

He certainly makes fun of you. That does not mean that is all he does. I for one recognize his pointing out absurdities and making valid comparisons.

I don't even like DMC so it's not as if I am supporting him based on bias either.

To me, it looks like you cannot answer what his real points are and instead whine.

[silverblk mystix]

He certainly makes fun of you. That does not mean that is all he does. I for one recognize his pointing out absurdities and making valid comparisons.

I don't even like DMC so it's not as if I am supporting him based on bias either.

To me, it looks like you cannot answer what his real points are and instead whine.


You are free to have that opinion however wrong it is.

I don't feel the need to continue to answer and debate once the insults begin. Why would I waste my time?

I can - as I have done in the past - just return insults with more insults - but I find this topic worthwhile - so I would rather ignore him than debate him since insults are all he offers. In hiding of course.

Other topics - sure - we'll play the kids in hiding game. This topic - I will discuss, debate, learn, share with those that wish to- respectfully.

Otherwise - not worth it.

Additionally I gave him irrefutable truth and this probably makes him resort to insults because he cannot refute the self evident truth I gave him.

lol

[DMC]

First, allow me to say that I do not claim to be a theologian. And again I do not ask you to believe as I do.
Having stated that, yes, you are correct in that my beliefs are unorthodox. Hell, maybe I am in the new vanguard of Nuevo Christian or something equally unsure. I believe what I believe, and respect the beliefs of others without the age old condemnations of those who believe differently.
The truth is, belief in God can only truly be known subjectively in each one of us. That could be unconventional as well.

To answer your questions as best I can, yes, holy errors, batman. :lol I don't see how that is not a possibility, and most probably a very good probability.

Next, IMHO, no one should trust it's content, especially in light of it's history. What should be done is examine it critically using the tools we have at hand and arrive at your own conclusion based on that, as well as other tools, meditation, intensive study, scientific methodology, and your conscience. That should suffice.
By that time, you are better able a make an educated guess, than just dismissing something outright without at the very least going on someone else's word for it.

What I used was not just the Catholic, but also the King James Version, as well as what I've learned from some of the most recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I did not stop there. I used the Torah, the Kabala, texts from the Tanakh, the Koran, the Vedas and Bhagvad Gita, as well as teachings from Buddha, Celtic Druids, Wiccan, agnosticism, and anything I could find from early American Indians, and Australian Aborigines, etc., basically whatever I could get my hands on, and modern metaphysical writings.

I've already explained how and why things happen that are not Gods' Will. Remember free will? Remember being in His image and thus Creating our own realities, however imperfectly? IMHO He, by the very act of giving us free will, allows us to do this.
And what's more, free will cancels out Destiny. Does this stance, I your opinion, mean I am soft on the issue? I don't think so.
I believe Gods' words are contained in the bible because of all the methods I have used, scientific method, cross tabulation with other books, meditation, experiences in life, and my own conscience have shown me they are.
I cannot give you better answer than that because IMHO it isn't possible due to the subjective, rather than objective, nature of it. You seem to want concrete proof, and no one on this planet can give you that, except yourself.

So you're saying we have free will and God demands that it be that way?

Why meditate on whether or not a god exists? What do you find in meditation that you cannot find in reason and scientific study? Do you give the same time and energy to other gods? If I were to suggest the existence of a previously unheard of god, would you meditate on it to see if it's real?

Reconcile free will vs prophesy.

[DMC]

Let me know if and when you would like to discuss a topic and learn something -until then - reveal your idiocy at will.

I made some points and asked some questions and you only make feeble attempts at a sophistic response. That's generally the approach of the ignorant. You don't know anything about it either way, but you feel you can somehow debate by nay saying and generalizing all things into a hodgepodge of shit.

[silverblk mystix]

I made some points and asked some questions and you only make feeble attempts at a sophistic response. That's generally the approach of the ignorant. You don't know anything about it either way, but you feel you can somehow debate by nay saying and generalizing all things into a hodgepodge of shit.

No, you included your usual insults in every post directed at me - as you have decided to do for months now - a mystery to me as to why - but this has pretty much gone on nonstop for months and months.

Once I see the insult - I decide not to dignify your insult with a thoughtful and honest response. You can insult me day and night - go ahead. The response you will receive will be in proportion to the insult you decide to include.

In essence - you don't really want to discuss/debate - you want to insult - and then you also want me to engage you in the topic when you have already used this infantile behavior.

Not gonna happen.

So, we both miss out on any real insights. I would venture a guess that you would never be open to gaining an insight - with anyone that you insult - and I would venture a guess that you are merely confirming the position that you have already concluded is the "superior" one.

[xmas1997]

So you're saying we have free will and God demands that it be that way?

Why meditate on whether or not a god exists? What do you find in meditation that you cannot find in reason and scientific study? Do you give the same time and energy to other gods? If I were to suggest the existence of a previously unheard of god, would you meditate on it to see if it's real?

Reconcile free will vs prophesy.

Hmm, you pose some interesting questions.

Ok, I never said "god demands that it be that way", rather you did. I did say God gave mankind, each one of us the gift of free will. This is a very heavy gift in a deeper sense when you examine it from a spiritual point of reference. It is basically IMHO a bequeathing of His power to create reality. Unfortunately mans creations go along with mans flaws, thus they are imperfect creations, such as war, hatred, ridicule, disease, perversions, greed, egocentric superiority, even all the way to hell itself.
Christ gave us the means to combat this imperfect creating by using forgiveness, thus forgiveness is to be used both defensively and offensively as we create reality. The imperfections still permeate what we create in our realities, but their manifestations are muted to great extent.

I meditate because it allows me the time to rest, ponder about, and censor my creations (thoughts, words, deeds) BEFORE I release them out into the universe to be born into reality. That way I can create with less imperfection. Logic should tell you that I also use scientific study, theory, reason, and forgiveness as well as anything else at my disposal.

IMHO there are no other Gods. There may be other gods, but no other Gods. We are all one and God is witin and without all of us. If you study science you will see that this is true that we are all connected on an energy level. Just because you have a body where you are and I have one here, does not mean that these things of physical matter appear apart from each other by our eyes, means that it is necessarily true, when you reduce matter down to the level of energy, we are finding that we and everything is connected, and even the space between matter is composed of energy.
So knowing that, no, I would not meditate on the existence of a heather to unheard of deity since we already know that we are all One.

[DMC]

Hmm, you pose some interesting questions.

Ok, I never said "god demands that it be that way", rather you did. I did say God gave mankind, each one of us the gift of free will. This is a very heavy gift in a deeper sense when you examine it from a spiritual point of reference. It is basically IMHO a bequeathing of His power to create reality. Unfortunately mans creations go along with mans flaws, thus they are imperfect creations, such as war, hatred, ridicule, disease, perversions, greed, egocentric superiority, even all the way to hell itself.
Christ gave us the means to combat this imperfect creating by using forgiveness, thus forgiveness is to be used both defensively and offensively as we create reality. The imperfections still permeate what we create in our realities, but their manifestations are muted to great extent.

I meditate because it allows me the time to rest, ponder about, and censor my creations (thoughts, words, deeds) BEFORE I release them out into the universe to be born into reality. That way I can create with less imperfection. Logic should tell you that I also use scientific study, theory, reason, and forgiveness as well as anything else at my disposal.

IMHO there are no other Gods. There may be other gods, but no other Gods. We are all one and God is witin and without all of us. If you study science you will see that this is true that we are all connected on an energy level. Just because you have a body where you are and I have one here, does not mean that these things of physical matter appear apart from each other by our eyes, means that it is necessarily true, when you reduce matter down to the level of energy, we are finding that we and everything is connected, and even the space between matter is composed of energy.
So knowing that, no, I would not meditate on the existence of a heather to unheard of deity since we already know that we are all One.

Reconcile free will vs prophesy. How can they both exist?

[DMC]

No, you included your usual insults in every post directed at me - as you have decided to do for months now - a mystery to me as to why - but this has pretty much gone on nonstop for months and months.

Once I see the insult - I decide not to dignify your insult with a thoughtful and honest response. You can insult me day and night - go ahead. The response you will receive will be in proportion to the insult you decide to include.

In essence - you don't really want to discuss/debate - you want to insult - and then you also want me to engage you in the topic when you have already used this infantile behavior.

Not gonna happen.

So, we both miss out on any real insights. I would venture a guess that you would never be open to gaining an insight - with anyone that you insult - and I would venture a guess that you are merely confirming the position that you have already concluded is the "superior" one.

All this yet I never pulled your chain and you responded to my post just the same with your drivel.

Unless you can put forth a convincing argument for the existence of a god, you've nothing to offer I cannot find in better condition elsewhere.

[xmas1997]

I forgot to touch on prophecy and free will.
Free will can cancel out prophecy as well as it can create it, IMHO.
Look at the prophetic nature of the Mayan Calendar for example. Wasn't everything supposed to come to an end in December of 2012? Did it?
Not to my knowledge.
Or hey, maybe it did and all of this, and you, are just figments of my overworked imagination! :lol
The huge power of free will combined with the even more huge power of forgiveness can literally work miracles of such the mind is incapable of even conceiving. I look at such theories as string theory, worm holes, and even greater unthought of things as this as possibilities.
In fact, I seriously doubt that anything is impossible anymore. One guy on here brought up replacing a missing limb or sight to a blind man. Yes, I believe there will come a day these things will happen, and what's more they will not even be considered miracles, because miracles are relative of the times.

[silverblk mystix]

All this yet I never pulled your chain and you responded to my post just the same with your drivel.

Unless you can put forth a convincing argument for the existence of a god, you've nothing to offer I cannot find in better condition elsewhere.

I responded to the topic and never insulted you. Are you saying I cannot post in this thread or use one of your quotes?

This was what I did. You responded with unprovoked insults. As usual.

Seek it elsewhere - I agree -

Drivel you you.

Truth to truthseekers.

[DMC]

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Are Words and concepts = Reality?
Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.


I responded to the topic and never insulted you. Are you saying I cannot post in this thread or use one of your quotes?

This was what I did. You responded with unprovoked insults. As usual.

Seek it elsewhere - I agree -

Drivel you you.

Truth to truthseekers.

You responded to a question that wasn't asked to you, and with gibberish at that.

You're a tool.

[DMC]

I forgot to touch on prophecy and free will.
Free will can cancel out prophecy as well as it can create it, IMHO.
Look at the prophetic nature of the Mayan Calendar for example. Wasn't everything supposed to come to an end in December of 2012? Did it?
Not to my knowledge.

That's false prophesy. I am referring to true prophesy which is given by the biblical God to his prophets. Don't skirt the issue by muddying the waters with red herrings.


Or hey, maybe it did and all of this, and you, are just figments of my overworked imagination! :lol
The huge power of free will combined with the even more huge power of forgiveness can literally work miracles of such the mind is incapable of even conceiving. I look at such theories as string theory, worm holes, and even greater unthought of things as this as possibilities.
In fact, I seriously doubt that anything is impossible anymore. One guy on here brought up replacing a missing limb or sight to a blind man. Yes, I believe there will come a day these things will happen, and what's more they will not even be considered miracles, because miracles are relative of the times.
You did not address how prophesy and free will can co-exist.

If prophesy exists, then the future is known. It's known by a creator who created an existence knowing the outcome, thus showing the outcome to certain select individuals. How then do the participants have free will to alter the outcome along the way?

Either answer the question or just say you don't know. Stop pretending you know anything about science.

[silverblk mystix]

You responded to a question that wasn't asked to you, and with gibberish at that.

You're a tool.

Another poster's reaction when given irrefutable truth.

This is why the world is where it is. Truth bites you in the ass and slaps you in the face and you say,

"uh....you're a tool"


lmao

[DMC]

Another poster's reaction when given irrefutable truth.

This is why the world is where it is. Truth bites you in the ass and slaps you in the face and you say,

"uh....you're a tool"


lmao
If you had anything even bordering on irrefutable truth you'd probably put it in your ass.

[silverblk mystix]

Here is a parable that really fits and describes this whole forum - this whole fuckin' planet - and ALL OF US;


A group of tourists are traveling in a bus that is passing through gorgeously beautiful country;lakes,mountains,green fields and rivers.
But the shades of the bus are pulled down. They do not have the slightest idea of what lies beyond the windows of the bus. All of the time on their journey - is spent in squabbling over who will have the seat of honor in the bus,who will be applauded, who will be well-considered.
And so they remain until the journey's end.



Try to prove that isn't true.

[xmas1997]

That's false prophesy. I am referring to true prophesy which is given by the biblical God to his prophets. Don't skirt the issue by muddying the waters with red herrings.

You did not address how prophesy and free will can co-exist.

If prophesy exists, then the future is known. It's known by a creator who created an existence knowing the outcome, thus showing the outcome to certain select individuals. How then do the participants have free will to alter the outcome along the way?

Either answer the question or just say you don't know. Stop pretending you know anything about science.

Well! Excuse me!
:lol
I did answer the question. Free will plus forgiveness have the strength and ability to cancel out, or thwart, or alter even biblical prophecy, much less even any other prophecy, IMHO.
What this means is that each and every one of us can do this, and the closer we are to perfection and unity of God, and the greater we understand our union with all things, big, small, and otherwise, visible and invisible, the more instantaneous and perfect our new creation, or alteration will be.
It is really that simple. We just have this perverse need to make it hard. But science is showing us this.
The Mayan was only an example, nothing more, nothing less, I wasn't skirting the issue.
Maybe my explanation was too vague for you the first time.
It is what it is. Take it or leave it.

[DMC]

Well! Excuse me!
:lol
I did answer the question. Free will plus forgiveness have the strength and ability to cancel out, or thwart, or alter even biblical prophecy, much less even any other prophecy, IMHO.

How do you know this to be true?


What this means is that each and every one of us can do this, and the closer we are to perfection and unity of God, and the greater we understand our union with all things, big, small, and otherwise, visible and invisible, the more instantaneous and perfect our new creation, or alteration will be.
It is really that simple. We just have this perverse need to make it hard. But science is showing us this.
The Mayan was only an example, nothing more, nothing less, I wasn't skirting the issue.
Maybe my explanation was too vague for you the first time.
It is what it is. Take it or leave it.
You're proselytizing, not reconciling prophesy with free will. You're still skirting the issue.

[silverblk mystix]

If you had anything even bordering on irrefutable truth you'd probably put it in your ass.


Check your PM.

[DMC]

Here is a parable that really fits and describes this whole forum - this whole fuckin' planet - and ALL OF US;


A group of tourists are traveling in a bus that is passing through gorgeously beautiful country;lakes,mountains,green fields and rivers.
But the shades of the bus are pulled down. They do not have the slightest idea of what lies beyond the windows of the bus. All of the time on their journey - is spent in squabbling over who will have the seat of honor in the bus,who will be applauded, who will be well-considered.
And so they remain until the journey's end.



Try to prove that isn't true.

It's a parable. How can it be true or false?

Here's a parable:

In a prison somewhere in Texas there's an inmate with three fingers up his ass. Those fingers are short and chubby, and they are hurting the sphincter of the inmate. The offending guard is digging for nuggets of wisdom but only finds some corn and a butter bean. The officer retreats, forgets again to wash his hands and resumes waxing philosophical on an obscure internet forum about the intricacies of the human condition. All the while the offended inmate is plotting to rape the asshole of the offending guard. Neither person is aware that the world outside continues along not giving a shit if either of them lives or dies.

Try to prove that isn't true

[silverblk mystix]

It's a parable. How can it be true or false?

Here's a parable:

In a prison somewhere in Texas there's an inmate with three fingers up his ass. Those fingers are short and chubby, and they are hurting the sphincter of the inmate. The offending guard is digging for nuggets of wisdom but only finds some corn and a butter bean. The officer retreats, forgets again to wash his hands and resumes waxing philosophical on an obscure internet forum about the intricacies of the human condition. All the while the offended inmate is plotting to rape the asshole of the offending guard. Neither person is aware that the world outside continues along not giving a shit if either of them lives or dies.

Try to prove that isn't true


Check your PM, thanks.

[DMC]

Check your PM, thanks.


So, why the animosity towards me?

This has been going on forever - yet - I cannot remember why?

The deal before with the pic - same thing - I had a quarrel with others and you did your deal and when I asked you why-- you said me and Avante were shitting on the forum by bumping threads and whatnot...

Still does not explain YOUR beef with me and why? But I humored you - pulled back, stopped bumping threads - (still don't understand why that bothered you and who appointed you to represent the club- but I degress...)

What is the deal?

Unless there is something in particular that I did to you (I am not denying it - I have acted like more than a horses ass many times - but I cannot recall where YOU were the opponent)

WTF?

Seriously.

Care to discuss?

lol

[silverblk mystix]

lol


I figured you'd do that - not even surprised.

Care to address it?

[DMC]

I figured you'd do that - not even surprised.

Care to address it?
Not really. Stick to being a semen shield for the Avante troll, avoid responding to things you don't understand. That's a good first step toward recovery for you.

[silverblk mystix]

Not really. Stick to being a semen shield for the Avante troll, avoid responding to things you don't understand. That's a good first step toward recovery for you.

So when spoken to like a man - and shown respect - this is what you respond with?

No dignity to discuss anything respectfully?

I am giving you every chance to explain your odd behavior - that is all -

[DMC]

So when spoken to like a man - and shown respect - this is what you respond with?

No dignity to discuss anything respectfully?

I am giving you every chance to explain your odd behavior - that is all -

So you need to leave the public forum to show me respect?

Act like somebody already. I bet if I was incarcerated you'd not have a problem manning up.

[xmas1997]

How do you know this to be true?

You're proselytizing, not reconciling prophesy with free will. You're still skirting the issue.

No, I'm not.
I'm stating an opinion that is based on my personal beliefs.
You asked a question. I gave you my answer.
It's not up to me if you believe it or not. It's up you.
In fact I started the whole thing by qualifying that very point.
You are more than welcome to believe whatever you desire as far as I am concerned, no skin off my back.
So for all your beliefs and disbeliefs up to this point in your life, how has that got you?
Happy? If so, great.
Unhappy, don't worry, it'll improve.
Either way, I am just discussing, and you will get no proselytizing out of me.
Nor will you lure me into a pissing contest, been there, done that. :lol

[silverblk mystix]

So you need to leave the public forum to show me respect?

Act like somebody already. I bet if I was incarcerated you'd not have a problem manning up.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and thought you might explain why the hostility towards me specifically. If I was somehow responsible - i would man up and discuss it with you personally. It makes sense that if things need to be cleared up - or understood -that privately is the proper way to do it.

Seems that you are unable or unwilling to speak sincerely without insults - guess that is your deal and you have pretty much shown everyone here exactly what you are about.

A man does not act in these ways when spoken to respectfully.

[ChumpDumper]

So you need to leave the public forum to show me respect?That is curious.

Why the PM, SBM?

Did you not want anyone seeing you show respect?

[DMC]

No, I'm not.
I'm stating an opinion that is based on my personal beliefs.
You asked a question. I gave you my answer.
It's not up to me if you believe it or not. It's up you.
In fact I started the whole thing by qualifying that very point.
You are more than welcome to believe whatever you desire as far as I am concerned, no skin off my back.
So for all your beliefs and disbeliefs up to this point in your life, how has that got you?
Happy? If so, great.
Unhappy, don't worry, it'll improve.
Either way, I am just discussing, and you will get no proselytizing out of me.
Nor will you lure me into a pissing contest, been there, done that. :lol

Your answer had nothing to do with reconciling determinism (prophesy) with free will. It was just you talking about how mysterious everything is and how it's all wide open to interpretation, when it's really not.

[DMC]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and thought you might explain why the hostility towards me specifically. If I was somehow responsible - i would man up and discuss it with you personally. It makes sense that if things need to be cleared up - or understood -that privately is the proper way to do it.

Seems that you are unable or unwilling to speak sincerely without insults - guess that is your deal and you have pretty much shown everyone here exactly what you are about.

A man does not act in these ways when spoken to respectfully.

So you can be a dick in public but you'll discuss it behind closed doors? Do you work for the government?

[silverblk mystix]

That is curious.

Why the PM, SBM?

Did you not want anyone seeing you show respect?

just trying to speak to one person ...don't need an audience ...
why is one needed?

[xmas1997]

Your answer had nothing to do with reconciling determinism (prophesy) with free will. It was just you talking about how mysterious everything is and how it's all wide open to interpretation, when it's really not.

Then how do you reconcile it?
And what's more, why is there a need for reconciliation in the first place?

[DMC]

Then how do you reconcile it?
And what's more, why is there a need for reconciliation in the first place?

Because they cannot co-exist. It's a paradox.

This is very basic logic.

[DMC]

just trying to speak to one person ...don't need an audience ...
why is one needed?

Funny, you sure seem to want an audience when you butt in on a conversation between me and another poster with your misguided, naive philosophical ramblings calling either him or I (or both) stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

just trying to speak to one person ...don't need an audience ...
why is one needed?People speak to one person all the time in this public forum.

You included.

Why the change?

[xmas1997]

Because they cannot co-exist. It's a paradox.

This is very basic logic.

You are entitled to your opinion.
I disagree however and I stand behind what I told you.
Free will plus forgiveness cancels out prophecy, alters it, or makes it moot at best. And in fact can create new prophecy which in turn can be canceled as well.
That is my opinion.

[silverblk mystix]

Funny, you sure seem to want an audience when you butt in on a conversation between me and another poster with your misguided, naive philosophical ramblings calling either him or I (or both) stupid.

are you saying that this thread was a private conversation?

I was certain that I was posting in an open thread and stating my opinion. Lol

[DMC]

You are entitled to your opinion.
I disagree however and I stand behind what I told you.
Free will plus forgiveness cancels out prophecy, alters it, or makes it moot at best. And in fact can create new prophecy which in turn can be canceled as well.
That is my opinion.

It's not an opinion. They are opposites. How can both be true? Was the birth of Christ not prophesied? How did that jive with your "free will plus forgiveness"?

Did Mary have a choice? Did Judas have a choice? Did Jesus have a choice?

[DMC]

are you saying that this thread was a private conversation?

I was certain that I was posting in an open thread and stating my opinion. Lol

And I responded in kind without the need for a private message to you. It's not like you have a shining reputation to uphold here.

[silverblk mystix]

And I responded in kind without the need for a private message to you. It's not like you have a shining reputation to uphold here.

does not explain your personal beef w/me

[silverblk mystix]

Because they cannot co-exist. It's a paradox.

This is very basic logic.


the universe and life itself contain paradoxes

is the universe ...illogical?

[xmas1997]

It's not an opinion. They are opposites. How can both be true? Was the birth of Christ not prophesied? How did that jive with your "free will plus forgiveness"?

Did Mary have a choice? Did Judas have a choice? Did Jesus have a choice?

It became a moot point, paradox, whatever you want to call it once Christ gave us His new commandments and fulfilled the law.
He showed nothing was impossible, if it can be conceived then it can be created, even the paradox of paradoxes.
And yes, they all had choices IMHO.
Your notion that it is a paradox and opposites and thus cannot be resolved is nothing more than your opinion.
My opinion is different is all.
Take it or leave it.
It is what it is and not worth being concerned about.
You asked for my opinion and I obliged.
Not really much more I can explain about it.

[DMC]

the universe and life itself contain paradoxes

is the universe ...illogical?

Not true.

What paradox exists in the universe?

It's so easy to make these off the cuff assertions but never do you support them with any data or evidence. You just make the assertion.

[DMC]

It became a moot point, paradox, whatever you want to call it once Christ gave us His new commandments and fulfilled the law.
He showed nothing was impossible, if it can be conceived then it can be created, even the paradox of paradoxes.
And yes, they all had choices IMHO.
Your notion that it is a paradox and opposites and thus cannot be resolved is nothing more than your opinion.
My opinion is different is all.
Take it or leave it.
It is what it is and not worth being concerned about.
You asked for my opinion and I obliged.
Not really much more I can explain about it.

More gooey Christian proselytizing. You should avoid these debates, you're only interested in starry eyed faith anyhow. You've not shown one ounce of interest in legitimate discussion.

[xmas1997]

Not true.

What paradox exists in the universe?

It's so easy to make these off the cuff assertions but never do you support them with any data or evidence. You just make the assertion.

Universal paradox.

You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

That is one typical universal paradox.
However, the condition of free will plus forgiveness undoes the paradoxical nature of it IMHO.

[DMC]

does not explain your personal beef w/me

Don't flatter yourself.

[DMC]

Universal paradox.

You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

That is one typical universal paradox.
However, the condition of free will plus forgiveness undoes the paradoxical nature of it IMHO.

That's not a paradox. Do you have any idea what a paradox is?

[silverblk mystix]

Not true.

What paradox exists in the universe?

It's so easy to make these off the cuff assertions but never do you support them with any data or evidence. You just make the assertion.


how bout the lazy wiki copypasta;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

[ChumpDumper]

how bout the lazy wiki copypasta;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradoxSeriously?

I respectfully ask, this is the best paradox you could find?

[silverblk mystix]

...or the lazy google copypasta;


Paradoxes in Finite and Infinite Universes








As we have seen, the finite Universes seem somewhat counter-intuitive due to their finite volume. If the Universe is finite then there is at least one direction in which we can travel in a straight path and we would return back to Earth. Moreover, if the Universe is "non-orientable" our body could be "flipped over" (a mirror image) when we come back!

Is an infinite Universe any less counter-intuitive? The following is usually called the infinite replication paradox:

Suppose the Universe is infinite and it does look the same everywhere we go (lots of galaxies, stars, etc). Then, any event that has a positive probability (positive chance of happening, even it it is 1 in a billion trillion trillions) happens infinitely often. The consequences of this fact are quite surprising.

1) The existence of planets like earth seems to be of positive probability, since earth exists and astrophysicists are finding many other planets around. Therefore, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many planets like earth in the universe.

2) There might be a positive probability for the existence of life. This is not clear, but we know that life exists, and it seems life should appear in any planet like Earth. Thus, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many planets which are earth-like and with life.

3) The fact that life might evolve into a being like YOU, exactly like you, is of positive probability (if we assume that life has a positive probability) because there are only so many molecules that can be formed which may be stable in an earth-like planet. Actually, it is of positive probability that a being exactly like you exists at *exactly this time*. So, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many copies of you populating the universe at this very moment!

4) Even more... Some theories say that time is infinite, that the universe has been contracting and expanding for ever. If this is true, then there have been infinitely many copies of you before you, in the past which have taken *all possible choices* that you have made in your life, those choices that you have taken and those which you have not

[DMC]

how bout the lazy wiki copypasta;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

Are you saying traveling backward in time exists in the universe?

Line 2 of that article:

Despite the name, the grandfather paradox does not exclusively regard the impossibility of one's own birth. Rather, it regards any action that makes impossible the ability to travel back in time in the first place.

[ChumpDumper]

Sci-fi theories are the only paradoxes that exist in nature?

[DMC]

...or the lazy google copypasta;


Paradoxes in Finite and Infinite Universes








As we have seen, the finite Universes seem somewhat counter-intuitive due to their finite volume. If the Universe is finite then there is at least one direction in which we can travel in a straight path and we would return back to Earth. Moreover, if the Universe is "non-orientable" our body could be "flipped over" (a mirror image) when we come back!

Is an infinite Universe any less counter-intuitive? The following is usually called the infinite replication paradox:

Suppose the Universe is infinite and it does look the same everywhere we go (lots of galaxies, stars, etc). Then, any event that has a positive probability (positive chance of happening, even it it is 1 in a billion trillion trillions) happens infinitely often. The consequences of this fact are quite surprising.

1) The existence of planets like earth seems to be of positive probability, since earth exists and astrophysicists are finding many other planets around. Therefore, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many planets like earth in the universe.

2) There might be a positive probability for the existence of life. This is not clear, but we know that life exists, and it seems life should appear in any planet like Earth. Thus, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many planets which are earth-like and with life.

3) The fact that life might evolve into a being like YOU, exactly like you, is of positive probability (if we assume that life has a positive probability) because there are only so many molecules that can be formed which may be stable in an earth-like planet. Actually, it is of positive probability that a being exactly like you exists at *exactly this time*. So, if the universe is infinite, there are infinitely many copies of you populating the universe at this very moment!

4) Even more... Some theories say that time is infinite, that the universe has been contracting and expanding for ever. If this is true, then there have been infinitely many copies of you before you, in the past which have taken *all possible choices* that you have made in your life, those choices that you have taken and those which you have not





What you're posting are concepts, not existing paradoxes. You said paradoxes exist (then had to go on a Google search when called out on it).

Maybe if you avoid trying to sound smart you won't be made to look so stupid.

[silverblk mystix]

Then there is spiritual paradox of which I will spare you because I have already posted those before...

[silverblk mystix]

What you're posting are concepts, not existing paradoxes. You said paradoxes exist (then had to go on a Google search when called out on it).

Maybe if you avoid trying to sound smart you won't be made to look so stupid.


So there are paradoxes in the universe and in life but you stated they didn't exist - and I look stupid ...lol

[DMC]

So there are paradoxes in the universe and in life but you stated they didn't exist - and I look stupid ...lol

The things you mentioned are only conceptual paradoxes. Don't make an assertion then have to scramble for evidence. What makes them a paradox is that they have self contradictions, meaning they cannot be true.

Prophecy is the true telling of the future.


Bible prophecy or biblical prophecy is typically the prediction of future events based on the action, function, or faculty of a prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_prophet).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-1) Such passages are widely distributed throughout the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible), but those most often cited are from Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ezekiel), Daniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel), Matthew 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivet_discourse), Matthew 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats), and Revelation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation). Believers in biblical prophecy engage in exegesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis) and hermeneutics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics) of scriptures which they believe contain descriptions of global politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_politics), natural disasters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_disaster), the future of the nation of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), the coming of a Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah) and a Messianic Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God), and the ultimate destiny of humankind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology).
Some prophecies in the Bible are conditional, with either the conditions implicitly assumed or explicitly stated.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-2) Some prophetic passages are depicted as direct statements from God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_god#The_Supreme_Deity) while other statements are expressed as the privileged perspective of the biblical author (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_of_the_Bible) considered to be a prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet)[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]. The Biblical prophets are usually considered to have received revelations from God, subsequently recording them in the relevant writings.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-3)


That negates free will.

If God can give revelations of the future, then the future is predetermined.

That makes the coexistence of free will and prophecy (not prophesy, which is a verb) a paradox.

Try to focus on that aspect, since that's where the subject went before you came in with your derailment.

[silverblk mystix]

The things you mentioned are only conceptual paradoxes. Don't make an assertion then have to scramble for evidence. What makes them a paradox is that they have self contradictions, meaning they cannot be true.

Prophecy is the true telling of the future.


Bible prophecy or biblical prophecy is typically the prediction of future events based on the action, function, or faculty of a prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_prophet).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-1) Such passages are widely distributed throughout the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible), but those most often cited are from Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ezekiel), Daniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel), Matthew 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivet_discourse), Matthew 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats), and Revelation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation). Believers in biblical prophecy engage in exegesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis) and hermeneutics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics) of scriptures which they believe contain descriptions of global politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_politics), natural disasters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_disaster), the future of the nation of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), the coming of a Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah) and a Messianic Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God), and the ultimate destiny of humankind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology).
Some prophecies in the Bible are conditional, with either the conditions implicitly assumed or explicitly stated.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-2) Some prophetic passages are depicted as direct statements from God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_god#The_Supreme_Deity) while other statements are expressed as the privileged perspective of the biblical author (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_of_the_Bible) considered to be a prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet)[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]. The Biblical prophets are usually considered to have received revelations from God, subsequently recording them in the relevant writings.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#cite_note-3)


That negates free will.

If God can give revelations of the future, then the future is predetermined.

That makes the coexistence of free will and prophecy (not prophesy, which is a verb) a paradox.

Try to focus on that aspect, since that's where the subject went before you came in with your derailment.


Well that bolded part excludes me - so carry on -

[DMC]

Well that bolded part excludes me - so carry on -

So you don't believe that the birth of Jesus was prophesied in the OT?

[silverblk mystix]

So you don't believe that the birth of Jesus was prophesied in the OT?

First, one more wiki paste-just an interesting quote;

The world of science lives fairly comfortably with paradox. We know that light is a wave, and also that light is a particle. The discoveries made in the infinitely small world of particle physics indicate randomness and chance, and I do not find it any more difficult to live with the paradox of a universe of randomness and chance and a universe of pattern and purpose than I do with light as a wave and light as a particle. Living with contradiction is nothing new to the human being.


Madeleine L'Engle

[silverblk mystix]

So you don't believe that the birth of Jesus was prophesied in the OT?


Can't say I am one for arguing or taking stances on a book that is generally mis-translated by everyone.

All I have claimed is that there is a lot of wisdom in the book - where it came from or who can prove this or that -IMO - is a waste of time. What is important is the wisdom contained.

I also do not agree - and it is IMO - that just because there are inconsistencies - or even false things in the book - I don't agree that it makes all of it worthless.

I also do not and cannot comprehend when someone is arguing about "GOD" -I cannot comprehend it at all - because there are a lot of assumptions that have never been proven and here we are arguing over a mystery.

I don't believe that "god" is separate from us - or us from "it" - it is like the little fish in the ocean asking directions for how to get to the ocean.

We are in the middle of "it"

[DMC]

Can't say I am one for arguing or taking stances on a book that is generally mis-translated by everyone.

Meaning you have the proper translation for comparison?


All I have claimed is that there is a lot of wisdom in the book - where it came from or who can prove this or that -IMO - is a waste of time. What is important is the wisdom contained.

Useless hodgepodge of generic statements.


I also do not agree - and it is IMO - that just because there are inconsistencies - or even false things in the book - I don't agree that it makes all of it worthless.

No one made that argument. On a cold day, it could serve as decent kindling material.


I also do not and cannot comprehend when someone is arguing about "GOD" -I cannot comprehend it at all - because there are a lot of assumptions that have never been proven and here we are arguing over a mystery.

So you're an observer and need to sit it out since you feel intimidated by it. I addressed the "mystery" claim already. It's false.


I don't believe that "god" is separate from us - or us from "it" - it is like the little fish in the ocean asking directions for how to get to the ocean.

That's a lot of belief statements without answering the question.


We are in the middle of "it"
Your claim is baseless. It's just rhetoric unless you can offer some evidence to support it. You might as well say we live in the asshole of a celestial dragon.

[silverblk mystix]

Meaning you have the proper translation for comparison?

Useless hodgepodge of generic statements.

No one made that argument. On a cold day, it could serve as decent kindling material.

So you're an observer and need to sit it out since you feel intimidated by it. I addressed the "mystery" claim already. It's false.

That's a lot of belief statements without answering the question.

Your claim is baseless. It's just rhetoric unless you can offer some evidence to support it. You might as well say we live in the asshole of a celestial dragon.


No need to try and prove the unprovable. You didn't make any "mystery" claim false - you merely stated your opinion based on your logic.

Logic is great and useful blah-blah

It just does not apply to a mystery that has gone unsolved for thousands or millions of years.

Didn't make a claim - I clearly stated that it was my opinion. It appears pretty clear to me based on my experience/knowledge/insights/- but I admit - it is one man's opinion.

The mis-translation of the bible - seems pretty obvious but you are free to disagree.

My "opinion" is based on the fact that a book that was "maybe" intended to be a clue to arrive at love/god/reality -

is the cause of untold misery, suffering, wars, deaths for as long as can be remembered.

This gives me the "opinion" that humans are completely missing the point.

Either way - this will be argued until the day humans finally wipe each other off the planet - since this is all that we have done and will continue to do.

[xmas1997]

Universal paradox.

You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

That is one typical universal paradox.
However, the condition of free will plus forgiveness undoes the paradoxical nature of it IMHO.


That's not a paradox. Do you have any idea what a paradox is?

According to taolifestudio.com it is a universal paradox.

[xmas1997]

The things you mentioned are only conceptual paradoxes. Don't make an assertion then have to scramble for evidence. What makes them a paradox is that they have self contradictions, meaning they cannot be true.

Prophecy is the true telling of the future.

That negates free will.

If God can give revelations of the future, then the future is predetermined.

How does your logic lead from "revelations to the future" to "the future is predetermined"?
All you can really conclude from the first half is just that, that they are revelations to the future.
To go from there to it means that it is predetermined in some way is stretching IMHO because that premise doesn't necessarily follow the first premiss.
However for the sake of clarity let's say it does, then in that case it would indeed be a paradox.
But even if it were, that still would not supersede His gift to us of free will, nor would it supersede His gift of forgiveness.
And with both at play IMHO it would definitely not trump both together. Simply because He gave it to us, not the other way around, thus He can do any damn thing He wants to do because He made everything, and thus set the rules for everything.

I do not expect you to agree with any of this reasoning because it has a principal in it that you do not believe in, namely God, but I can respect your opinion anyway.




That makes the coexistence of free will and prophecy (not prophesy, which is a verb) a paradox.

Try to focus on that aspect, since that's where the subject went before you came in with your derailment.

[DMC]

How does your logic lead from "revelations to the future" to "the future is predetermined"?
All you can really conclude from the first half is just that, that they are revelations to the future.
To go from there to it means that it is predetermined in some way is stretching IMHO because that premise doesn't necessarily follow the first premiss.
However for the sake of clarity let's say it does, then in that case it would indeed be a paradox.
But even if it were, that still would not supersede His gift to us of free will, nor would it supersede His gift of forgiveness.
And with both at play IMHO it would definitely not trump both together. Simply because He gave it to us, not the other way around, thus He can do any damn thing He wants to do because He made everything, and thus set the rules for everything.

I do not expect you to agree with any of this reasoning because it has a principal in it that you do not believe in, namely God, but I can respect your opinion anyway.

Wow

[DMC]

According to taolifestudio.com it is a universal paradox.

idiot

[xmas1997]

idiot

You asked for a universal paradox, I found you one.
What more do you want, egg in your beer? :lol

[DMC]

Sbm said there were paradoxes in the universe and in life. Realizing that's just gibberish from someone who think they are enlightened, I challenged him to provide a paradox that exists in the universe. He couldn't. Instead, you come along and call something a paradox that isn't a paradox and pretend that satisfies the claim.

Is that how you operate all the time? If so, I can understand why people call you names.

[Blake]

How does your logic lead from "revelations to the future" to "the future is predetermined"?


If Peter doesn't deny Jesus three times before the cock crows, then Jesus is a liar.

[RandomGuy]

....another thing...their is not that much chance in the world to say that the human body just evolved to have that much balance...and harmonious function..brain, heart, liver, kidneys, blood, venous system, reproductive system, eyes, ears, tongue, etc...and the animals have their own but similar structure...

It isn't chance. Sorry, evolution is not random, and it fully explains why animals have their own but similar structure.

The biological diversity that we see today is all rather phylogenically organized for the simple reason that evolution happened. Any given specific creation would not be so constrained. Indeed, if some creator really wanted to make it obvious that is what happened, would probably not have grouped things quite so neatly and plainly.

[RandomGuy]

prove it...just as with everything...some things literal, some figurative, some parables just like in the new testament...some anecdotes some personifications....you're fighting a losing battle on this one

I do admit we appear to be asking for a rational argument from you, and that *is* a losing battle. :P

The logical problem with claimign that humans can't know what is moral and need a God to tell them what is moral, is that you are now claiming that we need to determine for ourselves what is literal and what is figurative in some written account of morality.

[RandomGuy]

He created (key word) the universe...he didn't just snap his fingers and it appeared even though he could have...creation takes time...so too with wars he could cause someone to just die instantly but he "allowed" his people to do their work.

He didn't allow, he ordered the slaughter, and rewarded it.

A) Morals Come from God
B) Humans cannot know what is moral
c) God uses the bible to tell us what is moral
D) The bible must be interepreted according to humans
E) Humans interpret what is moral

You don't see the logical contradiction in that?

If God decides what is moral, then what is moral can change tomorrow.
If God communicates what is moral and moral is something outside his control, then why use the bible at all?


Aside from the fact that you have to be a total chickenshit when it comes to answering blindingly obvious moral questions, it is just a wee bit logically inconsistant.

If you believe you need God to tell you what is moral, and you have presented the chickenshit argument that is the case, then you would simply take up a sword and hack to death childen to "save" them.

Presumedly, that would include my wicked children, if God told you do so.

You cowardly sick fuck, you better stay away from my kids.

The fuckwads who crashed planes filled with civilians into office buildings on 9-11 thought God was telling them that it was moral to kill as well.

Thinking for yourself is the ONLY real moral system.

[Koolaid_Man]

It isn't chance. Sorry, evolution is not random, and it fully explains why animals have their own but similar structure.

The biological diversity that we see today is all rather phylogenically organized for the simple reason that evolution happened. Any given specific creation would not be so constrained. Indeed, if some creator really wanted to make it obvious that is what happened, would probably not have grouped things quite so neatly and plainly.

hey Random Guy there's a secret to plagiarizing and it seems you haven't figured it out yet... "Any given specific creation would not be so constrained and then Indeed....Use of the word Indeed following that sentence is where you get caught....it's a clear sign of plagiarism...:lol


another thing...it took you too long to respond...and lastly that statement you stole has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard..it makes no sense at all...what's the science that proves evolution is not random...you don't go from a bacteria strain to fully functioning and separate organs replicated in different specifies based on evolution...

evolution is supposed to be refining process from my understanding..in other words as time go on things evolve in a progressive or get better with time..is that not the case?

If it is the case how do you explain the death of dinosaurs who by all accounts were far superior genetically to modern day animals and yet evolution seems to have worked backwards for them...

the whole evolution theory is really a farce :lol people grasping for anything because they can't figure God out...

[RD2191]

He didn't allow, he ordered the slaughter, and rewarded it.

A) Morals Come from God
B) Humans cannot know what is moral
c) God uses the bible to tell us what is moral
D) The bible must be interepreted according to humans
E) Humans interpret what is moral

You don't see the logical contradiction in that?

If God decides what is moral, then what is moral can change tomorrow.
If God communicates what is moral and moral is something outside his control, then why use the bible at all?


Aside from the fact that you have to be a total chickenshit when it comes to answering blindingly obvious moral questions, it is just a wee bit logically inconsistant.

If you believe you need God to tell you what is moral, and you have presented the chickenshit argument that is the case, then you would simply take up a sword and hack to death childen to "save" them.

Presumedly, that would include my wicked children, if God told you do so.

You cowardly sick fuck, you better stay away from my kids.

The fuckwads who crashed planes filled with civilians into office buildings on 9-11 thought God was telling them that it was moral to kill as well.

Thinking for yourself is the ONLY real moral system.
:lmao:lmaoEpic meltdown is epic. Stupid fucking atheist and their retarded ass theories.

[RD2191]

This fish turned into a monkey which then turned into a human, makes perfect sense. :lmao

[xmas1997]

Sbm said there were paradoxes in the universe and in life. Realizing that's just gibberish from someone who think they are enlightened, I challenged him to provide a paradox that exists in the universe. He couldn't. Instead, you come along and call something a paradox that isn't a paradox and pretend that satisfies the claim.

Is that how you operate all the time? If so, I can understand why people call you names.

Go to the web site if you don't believe it.
You asked him for one, I just happened to find one.
You can take it or leave it, no skin off my back.

[Koolaid_Man]

He didn't allow, he ordered the slaughter, and rewarded it.

A) Morals Come from God
B) Humans cannot know what is moral
c) God uses the bible to tell us what is moral
D) The bible must be interepreted according to humans
E) Humans interpret what is moral

You don't see the logical contradiction in that?

If God decides what is moral, then what is moral can change tomorrow.
If God communicates what is moral and moral is something outside his control, then why use the bible at all?


Aside from the fact that you have to be a total chickenshit when it comes to answering blindingly obvious moral questions, it is just a wee bit logically inconsistant.

If you believe you need God to tell you what is moral, and you have presented the chickenshit argument that is the case, then you would simply take up a sword and hack to death childen to "save" them.

Presumedly, that would include my wicked children, if God told you do so.

You cowardly sick fuck, you better stay away from my kids.

The fuckwads who crashed planes filled with civilians into office buildings on 9-11 thought God was telling them that it was moral to kill as well.

Thinking for yourself is the ONLY real moral system.

you want me to stay away from your kids..then make sure when your wife douches when I come see her tonight :lol

seriously if God wants your kids then you give them to him....Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac to show his loyalty...:lol

[RandomGuy]

:lmao:lmaoEpic meltdown is epic. Stupid fucking atheist and their retarded ass theories.

LOL meltdown.

I might give a shit what you think if you could answer simple questions. As it is, you can't. You lost, and dont' like getting called out on it, not any skin off my ass.

[Koolaid_Man]

and the people responsible for 911 was listening to their interpretation of Koran...had nothing to do with the Christian God...

[RD2191]

Atheist regimes are responsible for 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone, how them morals without religion working out for you bud?:lol

[RD2191]

:cry:cry:cry

[Blake]

:lmao:lmaoEpic meltdown is epic. Stupid fucking atheist and their retarded ass theories.

You don't know what a meltdown is.

[Blake]

This fish turned into a monkey which then turned into a human, makes perfect sense. :lmao

Humans magically appearing on earth makes more sense.

[RD2191]

http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/funny-scumbag-atheist-dont-let-religion-rule-life-talk-christianity-all-day-pics.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Atheist regimes are responsible for 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone, how them morals without religion working out for you bud?:lolHow many were Christians responsible for in the same time?

[RD2191]

You don't know what a meltdown is.
I normally avoid laying out my personal stuff on the internets, but hell, I'm reeling so much right now, I'm asking everyone/anyone in sight what to do.

I had some nukes dropped on me this past week regarding the wife, which after looking back the past 1-2 years I should have seen it and I realize I am a fucking idiot. I've mulled over everything a billion times and there's no where to go but to get a divorce.

I have a 7 year old and some have already told me I need to go all out to get full custody. Any other practical advice? Step 1? Step 2?

Fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

:depressed

:lmao:lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

This fish turned into a monkey which then turned into a human, makes perfect sense. :lmao

Now you're arguing against evolution? Shit you're stupid.

[RD2191]

Now you're arguing against evolution? Shit you're stupid.
THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO IS SUPPOSEDLY ENGAGED BUT ASKING FOR KATE UPTON TIT PICS ON ST.:lmao:lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO IS SUPPOSEDLY ENGAGED BUT ASKING FOR KATE UPTON TIT PICS ON ST.:lmao:lmao

You're right, I'll never look at porn again :(

Nice try to avoid the question though, Paco.

[RD2191]

How many were Christians responsible for in the same time?
Not sure if they were Christians but murders by religious regimes are around 62,155,000.

[RD2191]

My math could be wrong tho:lol

[RandomGuy]

hey Random Guy there's a secret to plagiarizing and it seems you haven't figured it out yet... "Any given specific creation would not be so constrained and then Indeed....Use of the word Indeed following that sentence is where you get caught....it's a clear sign of plagiarism...:lol


another thing...it took you too long to respond...and lastly that statement you stole has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard..it makes no sense at all...what's the science that proves evolution is not random...you don't go from a bacteria strain to fully functioning and separate organs replicated in different specifies based on evolution...

evolution is supposed to be refining process from my understanding..in other words as time go on things evolve in a progressive or get better with time..is that not the case?

If it is the case how do you explain the death of dinosaurs who by all accounts were far superior genetically to modern day animals and yet evolution seems to have worked backwards for them...

the whole evolution theory is really a farce :lol people grasping for anything because they can't figure God out...

Plagarism? You think I somehow plagarised something because I used the word "indeed"? That is funny.

As for the rest of it:

There is no "science that proves evolution is not random". Stating that "evolution is random" is a bit like saying "all defense in basketball is zone". It simply misstates the underlying concept.

Nor is evoultion a "refining process" where things "get better with time".

Nor were dinosaurs, per the theory of evolution, "far superior genetically to modern day animals".

Either:
1) you are misstating the theory of evolution deliberately, in which case you are trolling

or

2) you just don't understand it, and have not learned what the theory is/does and what the scientific evidence says on that matter.

I think it is a mixture of both, with more of the latter than the former. You have, in essence, constructed a strawman logical fallacy, in which a distortion of an idea is defeated and not the actual idea itself.

If you really, truly want it explained, I can do so. Hell, I don't mind taking an occasional troll at their word.

[RandomGuy]

you want me to stay away from your kids..then make sure when your wife douches when I come see her tonight :lol

seriously if God wants your kids then you give them to him....Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac to show his loyalty...:lol

and God readily accpeted Jepthah's burnt offering, something you were obviously not taught in sunday school.

I would not follow such orders.

[Leetonidas]

Now you're arguing against evolution? Shit you're stupid.

indoctrination tbh

[ChumpDumper]

Not sure if they were Christians but murders by religious regimes are around 62,155,000.So these are just theocracies?

Does the US count?

What is your methodology here?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol Kool being a huge Bill Maher fan but believing in fairy tales

[Koolaid_Man]

and God readily accpeted Jepthah's burnt offering, something you were obviously not taught in sunday school.

I would not follow such orders.

don't know about that story....just a few ones...but it's OT anyway....not really applicable to modern day..

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Kool being a huge Bill Maher fan but believing in fairy tales

so I have to believe everything he does? He jumps off the empire state...should I as well? wait...don't answer :lol

[Leetonidas]

don't know about that story....just a few ones...but it's OT anyway....not really applicable to modern day..

http://neurobonkers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Typing-troll.gif

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

so I have to believe everything he does? He jumps off the empire state...should I as well? wait...don't answer :lol

:lol Bill Maher's stance on religion is the thing he's most famous/known for.

Being a Christian Bill Maher fan would be like being a liberal Ronald Reagan fan :lol

[RandomGuy]

This fish turned into a monkey which then turned into a human, makes perfect sense. :lmao

Step up onto that stage, if you want to.

Here's the mic.

YOu will, though, have to get even that oversimplification right.

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys. Maybe you will try to say we evolved from snails for an encore?


Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Give it your best shot. Tell me how evolution is a flawed theory. Go ahead. I always find it interesting to plumb the depths. Maybe, you can even get me to meltdown again.

[Leetonidas]

:lol Bill Maher's stance on religion is the thing he's most famous/known for.

Being a Christian Bill Maher fan would be like being a liberal Ronald Reagan fan :lol

Or a flaming homosexual fan of Vladmir Putin :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Bill Maher's stance on religion is the thing he's most famous/known for.

Being a Christian Bill Maher fan would be like being a liberal Ronald Reagan fan :lol


or it could be like being a heterosexual but standing up for the rights of homosexuals

[silverblk mystix]

Sbm said there were paradoxes in the universe and in life. Realizing that's just gibberish from someone who think they are enlightened, I challenged him to provide a paradox that exists in the universe. He couldn't. Instead, you come along and call something a paradox that isn't a paradox and pretend that satisfies the claim.

Is that how you operate all the time? If so, I can understand why people call you names.


All of the mystics of every group, religious, spiritual along with theologians agree on one thing;

"All is well....All is well"

Even though the planet is in chaos and wars, poverty, starvation etc... are going on..."All is well"

There is a paradox of life right there.

[silverblk mystix]

I normally avoid laying out my personal stuff on the internets, but hell, I'm reeling so much right now, I'm asking everyone/anyone in sight what to do.

I had some nukes dropped on me this past week regarding the wife, which after looking back the past 1-2 years I should have seen it and I realize I am a fucking idiot. I've mulled over everything a billion times and there's no where to go but to get a divorce.

I have a 7 year old and some have already told me I need to go all out to get full custody. Any other practical advice? Step 1? Step 2?

Fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

:depressed

:lmao:lmao



:rollin:rollin


Some things stain you for life. No one will ever, never, ever, ever - be shit on any worse than the Cuck who provided these goods!!!!!


This gives me warm and fuzzy feelings all over.

[DMC]

Go to the web site if you don't believe it.
You asked him for one, I just happened to find one.
You can take it or leave it, no skin off my back.

You're like a shitty doppleganger of Sbm.

[DMC]

:rollin:rollin


Some things stain you for life. No one will ever, never, ever, ever - be shit on any worse than the Cuck who provided these goods!!!!!


This gives me warm and fuzzy feelings all over.

Remember det time you sent me det PM asking me to ease up off you? You should, it was just a couple days ago.

[DMC]

All of the mystics of every group, religious, spiritual along with theologians agree on one thing;

"All is well....All is well"

Even though the planet is in chaos and wars, poverty, starvation etc... are going on..."All is well"

There is a paradox of life right there.

No, that's a contradiction in terms. If you say all isn't well, then say all is well, you've just contradicted yourself. You can say "the world is in ruins but I don't give a fuck", that's not a paradox, that's just apathy.

You really have nothing. I'd bet that, if you have a degree, it's in liberal arts.

[silverblk mystix]

Remember det time you sent me det PM asking me to ease up off you? You should, it was just a couple days ago.

No sweat off of me son, you did me the favor of posting that PM which revealed how I gave you a chance to act like a dignified man and you responded with pussy-kids in hiding behavior.

Thanks for showing what you are about even when approached like a man.

[ChumpDumper]

No sweat off of me son, you did me the favor of posting that PM which revealed how I gave you a chance to act like a dignified man and you responded with pussy-kids in hiding behavior.

Thanks for showing what you are about even when approached like a man.You were doubly hiding.

[xmas1997]

You're like a shitty doppleganger of Sbm.

I can't help it if you refuse to check it out.
Your loss, not mine.
Obviously you have no idea what a universal paradox is.
No surprise there since when your arguments break down, or someone disagrees with you, your only recourse is to insult.
And that is the result of someone who has no confidence whatsoever in their point of view.
Again not surprising after hearing about your antics from other posters here.
Good luck with that.
Oddly enough I had thought your posts interesting at first, and was willing to respect your opinion, but about the only thing you were able to prove was how eager you were to engage in pissing contests. Sad. What a waste!
Does it make you feel superior, massage your fragile ego, when you come up with a new and original insult?
The irony is there is nothing new, unless you count something that opens your eyes to some truth, if indeed that is what you are seeking.
In any case, enjoy your childish ridiculing, the only one you are affecting is yourself, from a credibility standpoint.
No offense meant.
Just saying, it is what it is.
Yet I have to admit, I do get a good laugh at your feeble attempts at sarcasm.
So how far has that gotten you up to now?
Good luck with that too. :lol