What's up with black QBs ?

[Brazil]

I lurk once in a while NFL forum (I started to watch football regularly just 2 years ago) and notice the talk about black QBs so I had to ask... What's up with them ?

Do you guys are saying that black QBs will never be successful because they play monkeyball trying to use their athleticism to run with the ball or are you implying blacks are not smart enough to play this position ?

If you are a freak of nature RG3 style I believe it is difficult to restrain yourself to use your athleticism with, on top of that, an entire system (coaches, college...) doing nothing to teach these young players to play smarter and protect themselves. That could be an explanation but some posts seem also to imply dudes are not clever enough to properly play the position which would be kinda racist tbh...

So what's behind black QBs talk ?

[Creepn]

First of all, insecure American whites have a belief where they view the black man as inferior which is pretty damn laughable to me.They think blacks as dumb monkeys basically. So when they see a black qb use other areas of strength such as running to make something out of a ruined play instead of giving up, they say it's because of their lack of intelligence for not reading the defense properly. Then they laugh and laugh and laugh at how stupid blacks are, even though the play resulted in something positive. It's also harder to be a dual-threat qb than just standing in the pocket looking for an open guy or just throwing the ball out of bounds after a failed play but that point gets lost on them. The irony is that the people who thinks like that are the ones acting like dumb monkeys. Whatever makes them feel better about themselves as I guess.

You are also right about the coaches as well. They exploit the black qb's athleticism for quick success instead of long term goals.

[johnsmith]

You are also right about the coaches as well. They exploit the black qb's athleticism for quick success instead of long term goals.

Serious question here, and for the most part I stay out of the monkeyball threads because they've grown tired imo tbh....but what else do you want the coaches to do with them? Of course they're going to exploit their talents, that's the point of the sport.

[Creepn]

Serious question here, and for the most part I stay out of the monkeyball threads because they've grown tired imo tbh....but what else do you want the coaches to do with them? Of course they're going to exploit their talents, that's the point of the sport.

Exploiting them just for gimmicky purposes will not see long term success. It robs them from learning the full role of being a quarterback. When defense takes that away, there goes that young man's career and furthering claims that black people are too dumb to be quarterback.

[Creepn]

As I mentioned before, Terrell Pryor is a perfect example of this. In high school, he was an excellent pocket passer. Got into college and the coaches there used him for gimmicks and failed to develop him. His numbers dropped and he suffered. Luckily the Raiders saw his true potential and took a gamble on him. They worked him out and from what I can see, he's doing pretty well with the supporting casts that he has.

[Raven]

Both points stand tbh. Though a lot depends on the fact that they can't read defenses because they also look for running routes at the same time.

[Chief Brody]

Exploiting them just for gimmicky purposes will not see long term success. It robs them from learning the full role of being a quarterback. When defense takes that away, there goes that young man's career and furthering claims that black people are too dumb to be quarterback.
This literally makes no sense whatsoever, in addition to being just incredibly naive about how the NFL works these days.

Maybe you've been missing the NFL since the digital TV switchover and you can no longer stick the eggbeater in the back of the TV to pick up CBS and FOX...........but nobody in their right mind that's successful has the patience to wait 4-5 years for a QB to develop anymore. Coaches are now getting <3 years to prove themselves, and franchises can't afford the lost revenue from fielding a dogshit team year-after-year. Look at Buffalo and Jacksonville, for instance--they're both looking to move outside the country for home games because they've been so bad for so long. Green Bay is far and away the smallest market in the NFL but you can't even sell a kidney to get a nosebleed seat there--because it's a winning franchise with great QB play.

The Panthers can't afford to let Cum Newton fuck things up worse than they are, just like the Bucs couldn't afford to watch the Freeman abortion go on any longer. Decent to very good QBs have been NFL ready almost half a year out of the gate now.

Get a new TV with a digital receiver and you'll see what I mean

[Creepn]

Both points stand tbh. Though a lot depends on the fact that they can't read defenses because they also look for running routes at the same time.
That's where the coaching has to come in.

[Blake]

Monkey ball =/= black qb

[spurraider21]

You are also right about the coaches as well. They exploit the black qb's athleticism for quick success instead of long term goals.
Of course you resort to blaming the white man for black qb shortcomings :lol

[spurraider21]

Black qb's have tended to be more athletic than white qb's and for some reason almost never discipline themselves into becoming true pocket passers who only run when needed to. Look at Andrew luck and Aaron Rodgers. They can both run, but they know it's not a reliable way to string wins together. Use the athleticism when you need it, not at the first opportunity. They all said rg3 was in this mold. Pass first, only runs when needed. Instead he ran for 800 yards as a rookie and got his ACL blown out. When a qb runs, he will get hit hard. The don't last physically and essentially run the wildcat while they're healthy. THIS IS A GENERAL TREND, not an absolute. Mcnabb pretty much had it right, McNair to an extent too. When was the last time we had a great black pocket passer, tbh?

[spurraider21]

This doesn't go to say that black qb's can be great or that all white qb's are great. It's just that time has shown again and again that a pocket passer wins in this league. Athleticism is great. Big rape and Rodgers both extend plays and have won. But not vick, young, kordell Stewart, etc

[Holden_Caulfield]

my nigga teddy bridgewater will blow this shit out of the water next season tbh

[HI-FI]

i'm surprised Brazil is into football tbh, I figured it would be too low brow or bourgeoisie for the French.

[Brazil]

Black qb's have tended to be more athletic than white qb's and for some reason almost never discipline themselves into becoming true pocket passers who only run when needed to.

thats a clever way to avoid the question. For some reason they don't discipline... Why? Cauz they are too dumb for that or cauz league owners coaches fail to proper develop them ? It's not like the sample size is too small, there are a bunch of black QBs in the league since years now.

[Brazil]

i'm surprised Brazil is into football tbh, I figured it would be too low brow or bourgeoisie for the French.

I lived in the US and I wanted to understand why it's so popular. I believe big par of it is linked to the fact that there are not a lot of games which makes every game a special event. I still think there are too many time outs but I confess that's a fascinating sport. I failed to understand baseball success tho.

[HI-FI]

I lived in the US and I wanted to understand why it's so popular. I believe big par of it is linked to the fact that there are not a lot of games which makes every game a special event. I still think there are too many time outs but I confess that's a fascinating sport. I failed to understand baseball success tho.
i actually agree. i'm more into basketball than football but been a Niners fan longer than Spurs. I think the ritualistic aspect of it, with games mainly at the end of the week, helps. I prefer basketball because of the movement and fluidity, football is more stop and go, especially more so now with all the ticky tack shit being called. It's still entertaining and obviously most popular, but curious how football will change in the future with all the safety/legal issues.

I like baseball but about 4th overall as a sport, i think it could use some changes or less games imo.

[BUMP]

my nigga teddy bridgewater will blow this shit out of the water next season tbh

Hello, Holden.

do you think we will pull off the upset this week?

[Raven]

That's where the coaching has to come in.

maybe a little for designed qb runs and read option, but the rest is on gms choosing black qbs only if they are athletic and black qbs for using their "talent" instead of playing the game the proper way.

[Raven]

thats a clever way to avoid the question. For some reason they don't discipline... Why? Cauz they are too dumb for that or cauz league owners coaches fail to proper develop them ? It's not like the sample size is too small, there are a bunch of black QBs in the league since years now.

Basically it's the same problem as with greedy and dynamic algorithms, one chooses the best outcome at every single moment, while the other first calculates every path and then chooses the best way. It's like with inflated economic growth or "organic" slow growth, which one is the best? In the long run, there is an answer, but at some point in your career, you are only focused with the small targets, which means you are forced to choose the easy and fast way to get results. The problem is that in the case of qbs, it means many injuries so the upside gets lower every time. Bottom line, you could say they are dumb to choose the easy way to play the game and your opinion would be every bit as undeniable as it can get.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Serious question here, and for the most part I stay out of the monkeyball threads because they've grown tired imo tbh....but what else do you want the coaches to do with them? Of course they're going to exploit their talents, that's the point of the sport.

Creepn basically went on a rant about how dual threat QBs are better than pocket passing QBs then ended it by crying about how coaches use black QBs as dual threat QBs rather than pocket QBs.

Makes total sense, right?

[spurraider21]

thats a clever way to avoid the question. For some reason they don't discipline... Why? Cauz they are too dumb for that or cauz league owners coaches fail to proper develop them ? It's not like the sample size is too small, there are a bunch of black QBs in the league since years now.
im not stupid enough to say "black qb's haven't been successful because black people aren't smart." i'm just saying that thus far, a majority of dual threat qb's (largely the makeup of the black qb) run more than they need to, and more than they should, leading to ineffective long term play. however, the league has seen successful black qb's. warren moon is the posterchild example. doug williams won a superbowl. Donavan McNabb was successful and he was a dual threat guy who learned not to run too much (although he was a good-not-great pocket passer which was ultimately his demise anyway).

sorry if i didn't answer your question by turning a generalization into an absolute like "yeah, black qb's struggle because they are all intelligent." all i can say is they have by in large not been successful and for a common reason

[jeebus]

black qb's haven't been successful because black people aren't smart.
+1

[spurraider21]

:lol

[Brazil]

Creepn basically went on a rant about how dual threat QBs are better than pocket passing QBs then ended it by crying about how coaches use black QBs as dual threat QBs rather than pocket QBs.

Makes total sense, right?

Dual threat QBs are on paper a more powerful tool but it seems it is a curse. Of course because of the risk of injuries but also a more classic QB cannot hide a poor offense, you need much more balance on your team between running and passing game with a classic QB. This probably obliges the teams to be flawless on their recruitment, to be more disciplined as a team and to have a more structured play book which is essential to face intensity of playoff games. I'm not sure my line of idea is correct but this is the way I see it.

i still wish we could see soon a dual threat Black QB win a SB. It will eventually happen but it will be only on a top notch organization.

[Chinook]

I lurk once in a while NFL forum (I started to watch football regularly just 2 years ago) and notice the talk about black QBs so I had to ask... What's up with them ?

Do you guys are saying that black QBs will never be successful because they play monkeyball trying to use their athleticism to run with the ball or are you implying blacks are not smart enough to play this position ?

If you are a freak of nature RG3 style I believe it is difficult to restrain yourself to use your athleticism with, on top of that, an entire system (coaches, college...) doing nothing to teach these young players to play smarter and protect themselves. That could be an explanation but some posts seem also to imply dudes are not clever enough to properly play the position which would be kinda racist tbh...

So what's behind black QBs talk ?

Honestly, I have no idea how it became such a big issue on this forum, since I've only really looked at it since the end of last season. But it's pretty weird that is so popular.

I agree with Creepn that black quarterbacks get stereotyped in college often, and that leads to them playing in gimmicky systems than don't properly develop their talents. Hell, there are people who believe that Leftwich was a running quarterback. Actually, that's a bigger problem than just this issue, as college systems fail to develop a lot of talent, and they inflate lesser talents like Graham Harrell and Tim Tebow because they take advantage of the general dilution of physical defensive talent. So a lot of quarterbacks grow up in one-read systems and find it too hard to adjust once they have to go through their progressions.

The problem is that since gimmicks work in college, college coaches has no incentive not to use them. Brown earned himself a big payday by precisely not trying to develop Vince Young. The only way I can see to fix things is to have a development league as an alternative to college in which elite high-school players can get paid to play in pro-style systems and without the talent inflation. After three or four years, they could be drafted as they are now. College football would still be the same, but obviously without its upper-tier of talent. Players who go there would be students first, or at least should be as their chances of actually being drafted would now be pretty low. That's not unlike the college baseball system, except the minor-league teams wouldn't be under the direct control of big-league teams.

[Chief Brody]

Looks like Brazil has come down with a severe case of white guilt lately. Probably hanging around Chumpdumper or Fuzzy too much.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Dual threat QBs are on paper a more powerful tool but it seems it is a curse. Of course because of the risk of injuries but also a more classic QB cannot hide a poor offense, you need much more balance on your team between running and passing game with a classic QB. This probably obliges the teams to be flawless on their recruitment, to be more disciplined as a team and to have a more structured play book which is essential to face intensity of playoff games. I'm not sure my line of idea is correct but this is the way I see it.

i still wish we could see soon a dual threat Black QB win a SB. It will eventually happen but it will be only on a top notch organization.

Well the superbowl isn't played on paper, it's played on a field in February, where "dual threat" black QBs struggle.

And a dual threat Black QB winning a SB is like a PG oriented team winning an NBA championship. It'll never happen/happen once in a blue moon in a completely fluke scenario.

[Brazil]

im not stupid enough to say "black qb's haven't been successful because black people aren't smart." i'm just saying that thus far, a majority of dual threat qb's (largely the makeup of the black qb) run more than they need to, and more than they should, leading to ineffective long term play. however, the league has seen successful black qb's. warren moon is the posterchild example. doug williams won a superbowl. Donavan McNabb was successful and he was a dual threat guy who learned not to run too much (although he was a good-not-great pocket passer which was ultimately his demise anyway).

sorry if i didn't answer your question by turning a generalization into an absolute like "yeah, black qb's struggle because they are all intelligent." all i can say is they have by in large not been successful and for a common reason

i was not trying to be a smart ass really. I just have a hard time to believe it is just bad luck that they are struggling to win it all and like you I don't believe in the racist they are too dumb for that.

[spurraider21]

i was not trying to be a smart ass really. I just have a hard time to believe it is just bad luck that they are struggling to win it all and like you I don't believe in the racist they are too dumb for that.
tbh its the same for white scrambling quarterbacks. jake locker finds himself in trouble relying too much on his legs. steve young was a trainwreck early in his career, but he was able to mature into a great passer. in general its the run-first quarterbacks that struggle. a lot of black qb's tend to be athletically gifted and develop into run-first guys.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Maybe "they're too dumb" might be racist (even though empirical evidence says it's true), it's not racist at all to say they buckle under an uncanny amount of pressure every time they get close because the black community puts A LOT more pressure on black QBs than the white community does white QBs. All RG3 needed to do was string together a few good games before America's entire black community hopped on his back and expected him to lead black America to wealth and prosperity because he demonstrated some ability to play QB.

[Brazil]

Well the superbowl isn't played on paper, it's played on a field in February, where "dual threat" black QBs struggle.

And a dual threat Black QB winning a SB is like a PG oriented team winning an NBA championship. It'll never happen/happen once in a blue moon in a completely fluke scenario.

I was about making reference on your famous pg oriented team theory. In that case I fully understand the logic behind you made great points to back it up and it works on paper and in reality. In the case of dual threats QBs that makes less sense: a dual threat should be harder to defend than a classic pocket passer.

[Chinook]

i was not trying to be a smart ass really. I just have a hard time to believe it is just bad luck that they are struggling to win it all and like you I don't believe in the racist they are too dumb for that.

Nah, there definitely seems like there's something after all this time, although, really we should only be talking about the last 15 years or so, since that's about the time where it became acceptable to have a black quarterback as your starter. I think we'll have pretty strong evidence of there actually being something wrong with black quarterbacks if none of the current ones find a way to win. There would be pretty much no excuse why none of Wilson, Kaepernick, RGIII, Smith, Manuel or Pryor win eventually.

[BRHornet45]

as usual Creepn playing the blame game.

it's the coaches fault for the black QB's being garbage!!!

son it must suck to have such a ridiculous mentality like that. it's always someone else's fault.

[DeadlyDynasty]

A mixed breed could potentially win, but a pure breed stands no chance--and yes, it IS an intelligence thing.

[DeadlyDynasty]

as usual Creepn playing the blame game.

it's the coaches fault for the black QB's being garbage!!!

son it must suck to have such a ridiculous mentality like that. it's always someone else's fault.
How convenient is that, though? If he succeeds, "He persevered through so much to win!", but if/when he fails then "The white man didn't train him properly:cry"

[Chinook]

This literally makes no sense whatsoever, in addition to being just incredibly naive about how the NFL works these days.

Maybe you've been missing the NFL since the digital TV switchover and you can no longer stick the eggbeater in the back of the TV to pick up CBS and FOX...........but nobody in their right mind that's successful has the patience to wait 4-5 years for a QB to develop anymore. Coaches are now getting <3 years to prove themselves, and franchises can't afford the lost revenue from fielding a dogshit team year-after-year. Look at Buffalo and Jacksonville, for instance--they're both looking to move outside the country for home games because they've been so bad for so long. Green Bay is far and away the smallest market in the NFL but you can't even sell a kidney to get a nosebleed seat there--because it's a winning franchise with great QB play.

The Panthers can't afford to let Cum Newton fuck things up worse than they are, just like the Bucs couldn't afford to watch the Freeman abortion go on any longer. Decent to very good QBs have been NFL ready almost half a year out of the gate now.

Get a new TV with a digital receiver and you'll see what I mean

I thought he meant for college. College coaches don't properly develop their quarterbacks because they don't have to have complete QBs to beat even the best college defenses (as Manziel showed). That puts them behind the curve in the NFL, which has a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately attitude that doesn't allow coaches the time to help the quarterbacks unlearn bad habits. Seems like both views coexist just fine and actually work together to answer Brazil's question pretty nicely.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I thought he meant for college. College coaches don't properly develop their quarterbacks because they don't have to have complete QBs to beat even the best college defenses (as Manziel showed). That puts them behind the curve in the NFL, which has a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately attitude that doesn't allow coaches the time to help the quarterbacks unlearn bad habits. Seems like both views coexist just fine and actually work together to answer Brazil's question pretty nicely.
If you're at a major D-1 football school, you bet your ass the pressure is on to win "now" too as well. That's the business of the game. Can't get the job done? Hit the fuckin' bricks. Some exceptions are made for programs that have been sanctioned and destroyed, but's that's not the rule.

Those 3 years of Jacory Harris were like watching an AIDS pt deteriorate before your very eyes.

[BRHornet45]

How convenient is that, though? If he succeeds, "He persevered through so much to win!", but if/when he fails then "The white man didn't train him properly:cry"

exactly son.

with me being a mixed breed myself I can call bullshit on either side and the majority of the black community in this generation are despicable. absolutely fucking despicable. the ignorant and high sense of entitlement attitudes that most of them have coming up nowadays is going to do nothing but get worse. it truly is a shame especially when you think about where we are in America and what the generations before them went through only for most of them to still run around bitching and moaning that they don't have anything.

quit blaming others for your failures. no one owes you shit.

[Chinook]

If you're at a major D-1 football school, you bet your ass the pressure is on to win "now" too as well. That's the business of the game. Can't get the job done? Hit the fuckin' bricks.

Exactly. I said that in my first post in this thread. Monkeyball works in college (very well), so college coaches aren't going to risk their jobs by going away from it. So players like Vince Young can "get the job done" even with Mack Brown doing nothing to actually develop his pro game and then can't cut it once defensive talent isn't so inflated.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't buy the :crycollege coaches didn't develop me right:cry bullshit. Terrell Pryor was the top recruit in the 2008 class, he had the choice of whichever school he wanted. If being developed as a pocket passer was important to him he more than had the ability to dictate those terms when he was recruited.

[Brazil]

Looks like Brazil has come down with a severe case of white guilt lately. Probably hanging around Chumpdumper or Fuzzy too much.

:lol I usually try to stay away from "the I play the racism card for fun but there is a bit of truth on it" game. I am not a believer of race or skin superiority but I don't want to engage endless conversation on it, just reacted randomly on the so called white dominance and posted this thread because it is a topic for this board but also for nfl fans in general and wanted to understand better the fuzz.

For the rest believe me I'm not familiar with Fuzzy work and I read chump only in the spurs forum so no influence here. Don't spend a lot of time on the club just enough to know that avante is a faggot and sbm is a prison guard or something.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Hello, Holden.

do you think we will pull off the upset this week?

i think henne gives us a better chance than gabbust for the upset. maybe like that houston game last year. but im pretty sure we cover the spread.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also given RG3 has been a total abortion this year without the read option to open things up for him, it's pretty retarded to fault Shanahan for using gimmicks when it seems like those gimmicks are the only way RG3 is productive.

[fevertrees]

SAVE THE BLACK QUARTERBACK

http://deadspin.com/5974789/save-the-black-quarterback



1


It's been 25 years since Doug Williams won a Super Bowl with the Washington Redskins, the first and only time a black quarterback has won a Super Bowl. This is not a good thing. We should have had another one by now. In a perfect world something like this doesn't matter, but every year that we go without a second black QB winning it all reinforces the idea in racists that you cannot win with a black QB at the helm. Because I promise you, there are still plenty of people out there who believe just that. The question is: Why hasn't it happened again? Is it just bad luck? Or are there more concrete reasons why?
Drew Magary writes for Deadspin and Gawker. He's also a correspondent for GQ. Follow him on Twitter Drewmagary and email him at [email protected].

There are eight quarterbacks left in the NFL playoffs. Six of them are traditional pocket passers, all white guys. The other two—Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson—are African-American QBs who operate in offenses that include read option plays (Kaepernick more than Wilson). Another playoff QB who ran the read option—Robert Griffin III—was just dismissed from the playoffs after having his knee explode.

I want to believe that someone like Robert Griffin III is so talented that he can revolutionize the way football is played, just as Michael Vick promised to do. I want to believe this because watching teams run the pistol option is awesome, much more fun than watching Joe Flacco stand back there like a penis. There have been a zillion new rules implemented by Roger Goodell to cripple NFL defenses, and for a moment this season I thought that perhaps those rule changes would make it easier for teams to have long-term success in a system where the quarterback runs more often than the average pocket passer. But last weekend pretty much proved that wrong.

History has shown, time and again, that you don't win Super Bowls with this kind of hybrid offense. RGIII's long-term potential was just potentially compromised because his coaches had him running the football—including option plays!—when he barely had a leg to stand on. Why the fuck did they do that? Isn't that breathtakingly stupid? Colts quarterback Andrew Luck ran a 4.6 40 at the NFL combine, just .2 seconds slower than Griffin. But Luck attempted roughly half the number of runs (62) that RG3 did (120) all season long. In fact, Luck's 62 rushing attempts this season are nearly identical to Aaron Rodgers's rushing attempts over the past five seasons (56, 58, 64, 60, 54). If the Packers let Rodgers run 120 times a season, Mike McCarthy would be murdered. The Colts ran a couple of read option plays for Luck this season, but not nearly as often as the Redskins did. Why were Luck and Rodgers given better protection than Griffin?
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I think (WARNING: ignorance ahead) that black quarterbacks are still getting hosed when it comes to being groomed as pocket passers. I think coaches look at white quarterbacks and think to themselves, "Whoa hey, we can't have him run." Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both capable of running the ball effectively, but their coaches happily sacrifice that part of their game because they know that, ultimately, their QBs will need to win games mostly by throwing the ball. But coaches look at black QBs and think to themselves, "Wow, look at him run! I'd be a fool not to use that part of his game!" I don't think this is overt racism at work. I think this is a case of typecasting. Why did Mike Shanahan run an option play with Griffin barely able to walk? Because he couldn't help himself, that's why. He thinks of RGIII as a multi-purpose threat and can't see him any other way.

If Griffin's destiny is to become a pure pocket passer, then his training should have begun immediately. There shouldn't have been this period of, "Oh, well let's have him run NOW while he learns to pass because he's awesome at running." That kills his progress, not mention his ACL, MCL, PCL, LCL, XCL, ZCL, and NRDCL.

I guarantee: When RGIII returns to the field, the Redskins still won't be able to help themselves. They'll have him do a couple of read options because it looks great, and what's the harm in doing it just a few times? Then RGIII will succeed doing it, and it'll be, "Well, what's the harm in doing it just a bit more?" And then we're right back where we started. That's the cycle. Russell Wilson has already shown he can be brilliant as a pure passer, but he ran the ball 94 times this season, and averaged more attempts the last five weeks of the season than the first five. He's running more, and there's no guarantee that he'll be able to withstand it, no matter what the new rules are.

It's not just the responsibility of a coach to limit how many times a QB runs, of course. Running the ball is often a decision made by the quarterback himself. And RGIII has already proven that he's fond of taking off from the pocket when it suits him. But it's a coach's job to say to him, "Don't do that a lot," and I don't think the Skins were complaining much when Griffin was winning games by ripping off 76-yarders. It's hard to say no to that. Impossible, really. The problem is that, when a team and QB win games that way, the more they become convinced that they can ALWAYS win games that way. And how many times have you heard announcers talk about the "added dimension of the running game," as if a quarterback who can run and throw is clearly more dangerous than a quarterback who can just throw brilliantly? That's the fallacy. All that running is a grand distraction, preventing a mobile quarterback from becoming a BETTER quarterback.

At some point, there will be a team that decides to start implementing run counts for its quarterbacks. They won't go by feel, or the flow of the game. They will say to their head coach, "This player will have a maximum of 20 designed runs over the season and 40 scrambles. No more than that." It won't be a perfect method, but at least it will establish a clear goal that both coaches and QBs will have to try to stick to. The framework right now is so loose that teams end up running their mobile QBs far more often than they should because they have no willpower. They fall pray to the idea that the game is evolving when it really isn't.

And if Kaepernick and Wilson get bounced from these playoffs sometime in the next two weeks, we'll again be treated to a Super Bowl featuring two upright white dudes battling it out. Since Williams's Super Bowl victory, there have been a grand total of two black quarterbacks to make the Super Bowl: Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. That's it. To call it bad luck is wrong. There's a reason for it. Black quarterbacks have been treated as mobile QBs (and have often treated themselves as mobile QBs) for so long now that the idea that black QBs are SUPPOSED to play that role has become more and more ironclad. And the longer it goes on, the longer the black QB Super Bowl drought will continue, with racists holding it up as proof that black quarterbacks are selfish, unintelligent and undisciplined. I don't want that. I don't want to live in a world where Pro Football Talk commenters feel validated.

[Brazil]

A mixed breed could potentially win, but a pure breed stands no chance--and yes, it IS an intelligence thing.

Well that's a straight answer

[BRHornet45]

I don't buy the :crycollege coaches didn't develop me right:cry bullshit. Terrell Pryor was the top recruit in the 2008 class, he had the choice of whichever school he wanted. If being developed as a pocket passer was important to him he more than had the ability to dictate those terms when he was recruited.

this.

anyone who has been around a college program (or even most legit high school ones for that matter) know that the star black athletes have it MADE. I've heard stories of (not going to name names, but they were star players in high school and college) riding around in the coaches luxury cars, getting paid a few grand in cash every week, and all sorts of other perks. even in some of the most racist, backwoods towns in the South if you're a star black athlete you will be treated better by the coaching staff and community than the best looking white women would be treated in town.

none of it is some "evil plan" to temporarily have success like Creepn is trying to cry about. the coaches see talent and they worship that talent. it's not the coaches fault that most of the time the player doesn't have enough sense to poke piss out of a boot and wouldn't be able to pass his classes without their help.

[Chinook]

I don't buy the :crycollege coaches didn't develop me right:cry bullshit. Terrell Pryor was the top recruit in the 2008 class, he had the choice of whichever school he wanted. If being developed as a pocket passer was important to him he more than had the ability to dictate those terms when he was recruited.

You act like it can't be both of their faults. I'm not saying black quarterbacks are victims. Only a couple of them have truly pushed passed the crap and forced themselves to be considered pocket-passers. Warren Moon is rare in that regard. It's Pryor's fault he didn't go to a school with a quarterback guru as well as OSU's fault for not developing the quarterbacks they do get. If there had been a junior-NFL like I was talking about earlier in the thread, then Pryor would have faced almost-pro defenses from the start and would have either sunk or swam as a pocket-passer from jump street.

[Blake]

My two cents

I define monkey ball as basically sandlot football.

Athletic freaks like Vince Young, Colin K, RG3, Randall Cunningham and more had great college careers and great rookie seasons using their natural ability after a play breaks down and going monkey ball.

But one good year of monkey ball is all they get because after that, defensive coordinators break down tape........or in RG's case, injury.

The good QBs learn systems, learn how to read defenses, and learn to throw the ball away when nothing is there.

[Chinook]

And an equally big problem is lumping dual-threat black quarterbacks with run-first quarterbacks. There's a pretty big difference between Pryor and Troy Smith. There's no way they should have been in the same system.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You act like it can't be both of their faults. I'm not saying black quarterbacks are victims. Only a couple of them have truly pushed passed the crap and forced themselves to be considered pocket-passers. Warren Moon is rare in that regard. It's Pryor's fault he didn't go to a school with a quarterback guru as well as OSU's fault for not developing the quarterbacks they do get. If there had been a junior-NFL like I was talking about earlier in the thread, then Pryor would have faced almost-pro defenses from the start and would have either sunk or swam as a pocket-passer from jump street.
How is it Ohio State's fault? Jim Tressell had just had a Heisman winning dual threat QB, there was absolutely no reason he would go out of his way to develop Pryor as a pocket passer. His job isn't to worry about Pryor's future in the NFL. It's Pryor's job to lookout for his NFL future and make it a condition during his recruitment.

It's also revisionist history to pretend Pryor was a great pocket passer or anything. I saw a mediocre pocket passer who had poor mechanics but ran a lot in spite of having good weapons to throw to.

[Chinook]

How is it Ohio State's fault? Jim Tressell had just had a Heisman winning dual threat QB, there was absolutely no reason he would go out of his way to develop Pryor as a pocket passer. His job isn't to worry about Pryor's future in the NFL. It's Pryor's job to lookout for his NFL future and make it a condition during his recruitment.

It's also revisionist history to pretend Pryor was a great pocket passer or anything. I saw a mediocre pocket passer who had poor mechanics but ran a lot in spite of having good weapons to throw to.

I don't mean to say OSU should be punished. I mean to say that they played a role in not developing their quarterbacks and are part of the reason why a lot of good talent is wasted. It's more the fact that they could get to a national title game and get a Heisman winner out of a guy who never had NFL talent by relying on gimmicks. Pyror had legitimate NFL talent, but he probably wanted to go to a nearby school were he'd get a lot of spotlight and a chance at early playing time. Short-sighted on his part? Sure. But still doesn't absolve the system for allowing OSU to look like a good place for top recruits to sign.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't mean to say OSU should be punished. I mean to say that they played a role in not developing their quarterbacks and are part of the reason why a lot of good talent is wasted. It's more the fact that they could get to a national title game and get a Heisman winner out of a guy who never had NFL talent by relying on gimmicks. Pyror had legitimate NFL talent, but he probably wanted to go to a nearby school were he'd get a lot of spotlight and a chance at early playing time. Short-sighted on his part? Sure. But still doesn't absolve the system for allowing OSU to look like a good place for top recruits to sign.
Yes, OSU played a role in not giving a shit about Pryor's NFL future. I readily admit that. My point is that Pryor is fuckin retarded for ever expecting Ohio State to give a shit about his NFL fututre.

[Blake]

Short-sighted on his part? Sure. But still doesn't absolve the system for allowing OSU to look like a good place for top recruits to sign.

Absolve the system? what system?

OSU has no duty to prepare players for the NFL.

[symple19]

Maybe "they're too dumb" might be racist (even though empirical evidence says it's true), it's not racist at all to say they buckle under an uncanny amount of pressure every time they get close because the black community puts A LOT more pressure on black QBs than the white community does white QBs. All RG3 needed to do was string together a few good games before America's entire black community hopped on his back and expected him to lead black America to wealth and prosperity because he demonstrated some ability to play QB.

Just wanted to make sure this truth nuke didn't get overlooked, tbh

[Chinook]

Yes, OSU played a role in not giving a shit about Pryor's NFL future. I readily admit that. My point is that Pryor is fuckin retarded for ever expecting Ohio State to give a shit about his NFL fututre.

Then we pretty much agree. It wouldn't be the first time that a talented black man almost threw his future away.

[Chinook]

Absolve the system? what system?

OSU has no duty to prepare players for the NFL.

I mean the system that doesn't have a league specifically designed to do that.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Then we pretty much agree. It wouldn't be the first time that a talented black man almost threw his future away.

Regarding your comment about the system, imo it's long overdue that the NFL has a minor league system players can opt for over college.

[spurraider21]

How is it Ohio State's fault? Jim Tressell had just had a Heisman winning dual threat QB, there was absolutely no reason he would go out of his way to develop Pryor as a pocket passer. His job isn't to worry about Pryor's future in the NFL. It's Pryor's job to lookout for his NFL future and make it a condition during his recruitment.

It's also revisionist history to pretend Pryor was a great pocket passer or anything. I saw a mediocre pocket passer who had poor mechanics but ran a lot in spite of having good weapons to throw to.
like Robiskie and Sanzenbacher?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

like Robiskie and Sanzenbacher?

Devier Posey tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Just wanted to make sure this truth nuke didn't get overlooked, tbh
:lol I'm surprised it didn't get any more responses.

RG3 was literally criticized for not being black enough last season :lol, how does the black community expect to have a successful black QB when they all have to worry about the level of blackness they exhibit in addition to how well they play QB :lol

[spurraider21]

dont worry guys, Pryor will be the pioneer :ihit

[spurraider21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIc7PAadkwo

:lmao

[Chinook]

Regarding your comment about the system, imo it's long overdue that the NFL has a minor league system players can opt for over college.

I'd rather it be a separate league like college so that players could physically develop for a few more years. Also, that league would have pretty stable rosters, whereas minor leagues have liquid rosters.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol I'm surprised it didn't get any more responses.

RG3 was literally criticized for not being black enough last season :lol, how does the black community expect to have a successful black QB when they all have to worry about the level of blackness they exhibit in addition to how well they play QB :lol

Who was that dumbshit with the cornball brotha remark?:lol

:lolcaring about street cred in 2013

[DeadlyDynasty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIc7PAadkwo

:lmao
Well nvm, that answers that

[Chinook]

Honestly, you won't find a black person that has any sense at all that is fine with the way they're represented by their "leaders." The problem is that most enlightened black people lose a good deal of racial identity due to being jeered for not being black enough for so long and just stay out of the fray. So it's really just the entitled preacher preaching to the entitled choir.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Who was that dumbshit with the cornball brotha remark?:lol

:lolcaring about street cred in 2013
Rob Parker :lol, since been let go by ESPN

[DeadlyDynasty]

"Is he down for the cause?":rollin

Wtf does that even mean? What cause?

[Blake]

I mean the system that doesn't have a league specifically designed to do that.

assuming a team drafts him and sends him to the minors.

[spurraider21]

Lol brings up RG3's possibly being republican as evidence that he's not "a real brotha." :lol way to reduce your political voice to nothing more than the color of your skin

[spurraider21]

"Is he down for the cause?":rollin

Wtf does that even mean? What cause?
"he's not the guy you wanna hang out with because he's off doing something else" :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

"Is he down for the cause?":rollin

Wtf does that even mean? What cause?

You really need to ask (or ax in this case) what that means :lol

It means something along the lines of, "Is RG3 gonna be the savior for black America we all thought Obama would be?" :lol

[Blake]

Regarding your comment about the system, imo it's long overdue that the NFL has a minor league system players can opt for over college.

Yeah probably.

But it would make college football suck as much as college basketball.

[Chinook]

assuming a team drafts him and sends him to the minors.

As I said earlier, I'd want a system that was like college without all of the school stuff and with significantly fewer teams to concentrate the talent. A minor-league system doesn't work as well, in my opinion, because I don't think players just out of high school are physically ready to play in the NFL and would be better served in stable systems rather than fluid minor systems. While watching college football would suck more, that new minor league would be pretty awesome. SEC football on steroids.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah probably.

But it would make college football suck as much as college basketball.
Probably worse, more like college baseball :lol, but it would end the "Should athletes be paid?" controversy and it would end what I think is an anti-trust agreement between the NFL and NCAA.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

As I said earlier, I'd want a system that was like college without all of the school stuff and with significantly fewer teams to concentrate the talent. A minor-league system doesn't work as well, in my opinion, because I don't think players just out of high school are physically ready to play in the NFL and would be better served in stable systems rather than fluid minor systems.

Outside of the rare fluke talent like Bryce Harper, almost all baseball players spend a few years in the MLB's "fluid" minor league system. I think it would turn out the same way in the NFL, probably even more because of the physical gap between 18 years olds and NFL athletes. Outside of the Jadeveon Clowney type freaks, we wouldn't see the players playing in the NFL at age 18-19.

[DeadlyDynasty]

If black people have a cause, what's white people's cause then? (other than an education and employment).

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If black people have a cause, what's white people's cause then? (other than an education and employment).
Now we're getting too much into political issues :lol

All I'll say is that the white equivalents to Rob Parker have their own equally retarded cause that's completely the opposite of education.

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

If black people have a cause, what's white people's cause then?

Giving up 40% of our paychecks to Uncle Sam and Brother Tyrone

[Creepn]

Look at all you dumb motherfuckers covered in each others jizz from all the circle jerking going on in here. Nice of yall to drench Uncle Tom Bhornet to cover that brown skin for him.

You guys like to boast about "white intelligence" but yall the dumbest people I know.

[BUMP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIc7PAadkwo

:lmao

LOL the DullAss MavPRICKS losing to Boston

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

Look at all you dumb motherfuckers covered in each others jizz from all the circle jerking going on in here. Nice of yall to drench Uncle Tom Bhornet to cover that brown skin for him.

You guys like to boast about "white intelligence" but yall the dumbest people I know.
http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/crying-shannon-sharp.gif

[spurraider21]

Look at all you dumb motherfuckers covered in each others jizz from all the circle jerking going on in here. Nice of yall to drench Uncle Tom Bhornet to cover that brown skin for him.

You guys like to boast about "white intelligence" but yall the dumbest people I know.
keep blaming your problems on others. thats how you get respect tbh

:cry black quarterbacks suck but its his white coach's fault

steve young was a monkeyballer and was the fastest guy on the field but he was a trainwreck before becoming a polished pocket passer who ran out of necessity

[Clipper Nation]

Tbh, "monkeyball" type QB's probably weren't instructed properly in the lower levels of football as coaches simply used their athletic talents to win games against lesser competition.... by the time they get to the NFL, there's just not enough time to re-learn the most important position on the fly before all the other teams get tape on them and fans', owners', and coaches' patience runs out, tbh..... and this applies just as much to white quarterbacks like Tebow and Kaepernick as it does to the Vicks and Cum Newtons of the world, tbh....

I do think that we will eventually start to see more "dual-threat" quarterbacks winning Super Bowls though, tbh.... since that's the only type of QB that colleges seem to produce anymore, eventually there'll be a time when pretty much every team has one, and then one has to win it all....

[Creepn]

keep blaming your problems on others. thats how you get respect tbh

:cry black quarterbacks suck but its his white coach's fault

steve young was a monkeyballer and was the fastest guy on the field but he was a trainwreck before becoming a polished pocket passer who ran out of necessity

When did I say "white"? I said "coaches". And I definitely didn't say black qbs sucks either. This is why we can't have conversations like this when you guys just can't get the reading right first. If yall can't grasp something so simple first then everything else is a waste of time.

[Avante]

Black QB's have done fine at the NFL level. We've seen four of them in the Superbowl. And when consider there has only been a dozen or so who were legit starters that's a pretty good %.

What's happening is that defenses are too fast anymore, so you need guys back their with some mobility. Guys who can extend plays make things happen with their feet. White guys simply don't have that sort of skill set. Yes I know...Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton could run as could Bobby Douglas but 90% of the time they can't.

[spurraider21]

Tbh, "monkeyball" type QB's probably weren't instructed properly in the lower levels of football as coaches simply used their athletic talents to win games against lesser competition.... by the time they get to the NFL, there's just not enough time to re-learn the most important position on the fly before all the other teams get tape on them and fans', owners', and coaches' patience runs out, tbh..... and this applies just as much to white quarterbacks like Tebow and Kaepernick as it does to the Vicks and Cum Newtons of the world, tbh....

I do think that we will eventually start to see more "dual-threat" quarterbacks winning Super Bowls though, tbh.... since that's the only type of QB that colleges seem to produce anymore, eventually there'll be a time when pretty much every team has one, and then one has to win it all....
Pyror's got this

[spurraider21]

Black QB's have done fine at the NFL level. We've seen four of them in the Superbowl. And when consider there has only been a dozen or so who were legit starters that's a pretty good %.
that might be because so many have come and failed, were weeded out early because they weren't good enough

[Avante]

that might be because so many have come and failed, were weeded out early because they weren't good enough

Right now the NCAA is loaded with black QB's, more NFL teams than ever have them. They played for a Superbowl last season and an NCAA title, let's see what happens from here on out.

I do agree that too many could star at the college level but not ready for an NFL offense in the past.

[spurraider21]

as has been said in this thread before, its not the black quarterback thats an issue. its the run-happy quarterback. it just so happens that darn near every black qb at these higher levels is a runner

[Avante]

as has been said in this thread before, its not the black quarterback thats an issue. its the run-happy quarterback. it just so happens that darn near every black qb at these higher levels is a runner

You won't find too many athletes who are black that can't run. It really is a weapon if done right.

[spurraider21]

You won't find too many athletes who are black that can't run. It really is a weapon if done right.
the overuse of that weapon backfires, no pun intended. they start running before getting through all the necessary reads. they take unnecessary hits. they'll get out of the pocket when there was no need to

[Avante]

the overuse of that weapon backfires, no pun intended. they start running before getting through all the necessary reads. they take unnecessary hits. they'll get out of the pocket when there was no need to

Like I said.....if done right. You cannot use any QB as a running back in the NFL they simply aren't built the same. That will never work but you can use their running ability to extend plays and get that first down before bailing.

Russell Wilson is smart about it and makes it work.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You won't find too many athletes who are black that can't run. It really is a weapon if done right.

lol Creepn's fake outrage over racism while he completely glosses over racist posts like this because he and Avante agree on black QBs.

[Avante]

lol Creepn's fake outrage over racism while he completely glosses over racist posts like this because he and Avante agree on black QBs.

How about some reality, ya reckon? So you've never noticed that blacks can run? No need to play silly ass games amigo.

How about this QB 4x1 relay?

Leading off...Michael Vick
Second..Russell Wilson
Third...Terrelle Pryor
Anchor...Colin Kaepernick

Now lets see that white QB 4x1.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How about some reality, ya reckon? So you've never noticed that blacks can run? No need to play silly ass games amigo.

How about this QB 4x1 relay?

Leading off...Michael Vick
Second..Russell Wilson
Third...Terrelle Pryor
Anchor...Colin Kaepernick

Now lets see that white QB 4x1.
How good of a runner was Jamarcus Russell or Byron Leftwich?

[Avante]

How good of a runner was Jamarcus Russell or Byron Leftwich?

So you are telling me that no black QB's aren't the best runners? So who are the ten fastest QB's of all time.

[Blake]

How about some reality, ya reckon? So you've never noticed that blacks can run? No need to play silly ass games amigo.

How about this QB 4x1 relay?

Leading off...Michael Vick
Second..Russell Wilson
Third...Terrelle Pryor
Anchor...Colin Kaepernick

Now lets see that white QB 4x1.

finally we get some track talk around here.

go eat a dick, fat man.

[Avante]

finally we get some track talk around here.

go eat a dick, fat man.

translation

I better find only stuff I 'm into here, if I don't I will pout, you can't count on that, yep immature and selfish. You talk about my interests not yours.

[spurraider21]

So you are telling me that no black QB's aren't the best runners? So who are the ten fastest QB's of all time.
I can't come up with 10, but Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, Rich Gannon (fast enough that the Patriots wanted to convert him to a defensive back when they drafted him), Jake Locker... running short already heh

[Creepn]

lol Creepn's fake outrage over racism while he completely glosses over racist posts like this because he and Avante agree on black QBs.

I gloss over yours and you've said worse stuff. Where is this empiracle proof at anyway? I do have proof that white people always say blacks aren't smart for any position in sports like boxing, baseball, ect. but blacks end up excelling in their prespective sport. Even in wars. I remember just recently, people said blacks won't ever be UFC champions because they aren't smart enough to learn all the martial arts techniques.

You whites love repeating history and aren't smart enough to learn from it, it seems. You are on the wrong side of history Dok.

[Blake]

translation

I better find only stuff I 'm into here, if I don't I will pout, you can't count on that, yep immature and selfish. You talk about my interests not yours.

That makes no sense.

This is a football forum. If you're going to pout after you get called out for it, then why not just leave?

[spurraider21]

I gloss over yours and you've said worse stuff. Where is this empiracle proof at anyway? I do have proof that white people always say blacks aren't smart for any position in sports like boxing, baseball, ect. but blacks end up excelling in their prespective sport. Even in wars. I remember just recently, people said blacks won't ever be UFC champions because they aren't smart enough to learn all the martial arts techniques.

You whites love repeating history and aren't smart enough to learn from it, it seems. You are on the wrong side of history Dok.
Enlighten me

[Creepn]

Enlighten me

Read a history book and enlighten yourself.

[spurraider21]

Read a history book and enlighten yourself.
a history book will confirm what white people always say? and wtf history book will talk about how a black guy isn't smart enough to be a professional boxer or athlete

[Creepn]

a history book will confirm what white people always say? and wtf history book will talk about how a black guy isn't smart enough to be a professional boxer or athlete
lol trust me, it's not hard to find comments like that every single day on the Internet. Hell, Spurstalk has a good track record by itself.

[spurraider21]

lol trust me, it's not hard to find comments like that every single day on the Internet. Hell, Spurstalk has a good track record by itself.
oh so now internet comments = history books? :lol. that proves that white people ALWAYS say stuff like that. gimme a break

[Creepn]

oh so now internet comments = history books? :lol. that proves that white people ALWAYS say stuff like that. gimme a break

Yes it proves they always say that.

[spurraider21]

if you aren't ready for an adult conversation dont start one

[Creepn]

if you aren't ready for an adult conversation dont start one

So internet comments doesn't count? They are typed by racist robots?

[spurraider21]

So internet comments doesn't count? They are typed by racist robots?
internet comments proves what white guys ALWAYS say? meaning a white guy never says otherwise

[BUMP]

If black people have a cause, what's white people's cause then? (other than an education and employment).

dampieroffthebackboardbehindthebackwindmilldunkonb enwallacein2003shatteringthebackboardtoforceOT.gif