View Full Version : How much has your premium gone up or down?
I am fully covered so $0 for me. Has your premium gone up or down and by how much?
Th'Pusher
10-10-2013, 08:25 PM
TSA doesn't seem to understand his employer pays his premium for him, I guess? Can he be that stupid?
Did I really need to say out of pocket or were you too stupid to see it was implied?
Th'Pusher
10-10-2013, 08:36 PM
Did I really need to say out of pocket or were you too stupid to see it was implied?
Maybe you should have worded your question more accurately. The reality is you have no idea whether or not your premium has gone up or down.
I see you were either too stupid, or you just like being a nitpicking faggot.
And it's gone up, way up. I sat at my desk and listened to my boss lay into Rep. Duncan Hunter when he stopped by the office for a visit.
Th'Pusher
10-10-2013, 09:03 PM
And it's gone up, way up. I sat at my desk and listened to my boss lay into Rep. Duncan Hunter when he stopped by the office for a visit.
:lol
I'm not sure what's so funny.
Boutons is back for another visit I see. You seem to love it boutons. What changes have you seen?
Th'Pusher
10-10-2013, 09:34 PM
I'm not sure what's so funny.
It's funny because it's a lie. :lol
It's funny because it's a lie. :lol
Stop making a fool of yourself. Why would I lie? CA Reps stop by our office numerous times a year. I had the unfortunate opportunity of meeting Diane Feinstein a few months ago at my office.
Surprised there aren't more people bragging about how much Obamacare has saved them. You guys all just taking the penalty or are you too embarrassed you're receiving even more government assistance?
Pusher, if you're truly curious as to why I see Reps/Sens year round PM me.
Th'Pusher
10-10-2013, 10:04 PM
Surprised there aren't more people bragging about how much Obamacare has saved them. You guys all just taking the penalty or are you too embarrassed you're receiving even more government assistance?
thats the point now isn't it. Most people aren't directly effected by the ACA directly which is why this defund/repeal effort has gained no traction. If people, other than a handful of crazy tea bags on Medicare, were out protesting in the streets, Obama would not have been reelected and the law would have been repealed.
thats the point now isn't it. Most people aren't directly effected by the ACA directly which is why this defund/repeal effort has gained no traction. If people, other than a handful of crazy tea bags on Medicare, were out protesting in the streets, Obama would not have been reelected and the law would have been repealed.
That says a lot about the people who voted for Obama ie: handouts. The democrats here who for Obama aren't speaking up because 1. They don't take handouts and 2. They are paying more out of pocket and are embarrassed to admit they voted for it. Obama's handout base is extatic, his middle/upper class base is pissed, they were duped.
ours stayed exactly the same they're not raising premiums this year, the wellness programs paid off we barely use our healthcare as a company. most people are going up from what i hear.
Mine is completely unchanged. But of course I was already paying $600/ month (!) for two people. And the company insists that Medicare be the payer of first choice. I would anticipate that my premiums would go up except that I expect that the company from which I retired (when I first retired I didn't have to pay ANYTHING for health care insurance) to say that retirees are no longer covered and thus we will have to go onto Obamacare. I honestly do not expect to have to pay more than $600 per month for two people, even under Obamacare.
I see no PM Pusher. You may not agree with me but do not call me a liar.
The'Pussy is a huge dishonorable slimeball wouldn't expect anything less
sickdsm
10-12-2013, 09:02 PM
We are staying at $1k/mo for a very healthy young family of 4, ages 33,28,4,2. Marketplace shows similar prices. In laws i know are quite a bit higher premiums than us, family of 4. They are going up 40% they said. All BC&BS.
I supoose this is all meaningless w/out a link to a story though.
Blake
10-12-2013, 09:51 PM
We are staying at $1k/mo for a very healthy young family of 4, ages 33,28,4,2. Marketplace shows similar prices. In laws i know are quite a bit higher premiums than us, family of 4. They are going up 40% they said. All BC&BS.
I supoose this is all meaningless w/out a link to a story though.
$1000 a month? Holy shit.
boutons_deux
10-13-2013, 07:56 AM
$1000 a month? Holy shit.
... that's below average.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-insurance-now-costs-16-000-average-family-6C10960584
sickdsm
10-13-2013, 08:10 AM
... that's below average.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-insurance-now-costs-16-000-average-family-6C10960584
Notice I said we.
Premiums for the average family plan topped $16,000 for the first time, with workers paying on average $4,565 toward that cost, not counting copays and deductibles, the survey found.
That's out of my pocket. Not subsidized by an employer.
Th'Pusher
10-13-2013, 08:28 AM
Notice I said we.
Premiums for the average family plan topped $16,000 for the first time, with workers paying on average $4,565 toward that cost, not counting copays and deductibles, the survey found.
That's out of my pocket. Not subsidized by an employer.
The cost is tax deductible, correct?
sickdsm
10-13-2013, 09:15 AM
The cost is tax deductible, correct?
So is a new mult-million dollar factory but one still has to pay for it.
Th'Pusher
10-13-2013, 09:27 AM
So is a new mult-million dollar factory but one still has to pay for it.
You weren't whining about a new multi million dollar factory, you were whining about having to pay for health insurance premiums out of pocket, not subsidized by an employer. You're self employed, like other employers, you receive a tax deduction for providing health insurance to your employees which includes you. Do you want us to feel sorry for you?
boutons_deux
10-13-2013, 09:35 AM
"subsidized by an employer"
health insurance contribution by the employer isn't subsidized by the employer. It's taxpayer-funded through the "tax expenditure" of an employer deducting his paying for employee health insurance as a business expense. So in fact, the employee health insurance is skimmed right off the top of salaries and tax-free to the for-profit health insurers.
The entire health care business in USA is a huge kludgeocracy, hyper complicated, hyper inefficient, cartelized racket to suck wealth out of the insured.
Wild Cobra
10-13-2013, 10:33 AM
I am fully covered so $0 for me. Has your premium gone up or down and by how much?
Health care?
Mine is currently 212.79/month. I'm not going to take the time to find an old pay stub, but this is approximate double from 5 years ago.
Wild Cobra
10-13-2013, 10:36 AM
"subsidized by an employer"
health insurance contribution by the employer isn't subsidized by the employer. It's taxpayer-funded through the "tax expenditure" of an employer deducting his paying for employee health insurance as a business expense. So in fact, the employee health insurance is skimmed right off the top of salaries and tax-free to the for-profit health insurers.
The entire health care business in USA is a huge kludgeocracy, hyper complicated, hyper inefficient, cartelized racket to suck wealth out of the insured.
They take it off their net taxable. Not their taxes due.
Why do you always lie?
boutons_deux
10-13-2013, 10:48 AM
They take it off their net taxable. Not their taxes due.
Why do you always lie?
employers provided insurance cost is a business expense like rent and utilities, reducing their taxes
Wild Cobra
10-13-2013, 10:55 AM
employers provided insurance cost is a business expense like rent and utilities, reducing their taxes
Yes, it reduces their taxes. This doesn't make it tax payer subsidized. You really are a moron, aren't you...
Corporations pay a 35% federal marginal rate. For every $1,000,000 they pay in health care, They are still out $650,000 in federal taxes, plus what ever state taxes are.
This is no more a subsidy than the tax deductions you would be able to deduct if you didn't live if your grandmothers basement.
Wild Cobra
10-13-2013, 10:57 AM
Hey B-Shit...
Do you think I should pay taxes on the $212.79 monthly I pay for insurance? Are tax payers subsidizing me, because I get this deducted from my net taxable?
boutons_deux
10-13-2013, 11:33 AM
Hey B-Shit...
Do you think I should pay taxes on the $212.79 monthly I pay for insurance? Are tax payers subsidizing me, because I get this deducted from my net taxable?
do you get to deduct your car or homeowner/renter/car insurance from you gross income as non-taxable?
scott
10-13-2013, 03:56 PM
up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees
FuzzyLumpkins
10-13-2013, 04:02 PM
up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees
That sucks. Same coverages?
boutons_deux
10-13-2013, 04:11 PM
up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees
not too bad, not far off the annual avg for the last 20 years.
"average premium increases have ranged from 7 percent to more than 50 percent annually over the past decade. The Kaiser Family Foundation corroborated these statements in their own report after surveying over 3,100 groups of varying size, and states that cumulative premium increases “have risen 131 percent while wages have increased just 38 percent” over a 10-year period from 1999 to 2009."
http://www.ehow.com/about_6679729_typical-health-insurance-annual-increases.html#ixzz2hdf39Hll
sickdsm
10-13-2013, 05:00 PM
Lollerskates @ having to explain the difference between tax credits and deductions to those giving advice.
Eventual you have to pay for all those deductions.
Th'Pusher
10-13-2013, 05:17 PM
Lollerskates @ having to explain the difference between tax credits and deductions to those giving advice.
Eventual you have to pay for all those deductions.
I don't need anything explained. You don't like being an employer or the tax advantages it affords, then get another job. As a farmer, did you receive any direct payments from the federal government? What about crop insurance? There's nothing worse than a whiney "entrepreneur"...
sickdsm
10-13-2013, 06:01 PM
I don't need anything explained. You don't like being an employer or the tax advantages it affords, then get another job. As a farmer, did you receive any direct payments from the federal government? What about crop insurance? There's nothing worse than a whiney "entrepreneur"...
It wasn't you that needed the explaining.
Subsidies are built into land cost. They get passed on to the landowner. As with any business tge more risk you take the more return is possible. Owning property and farming are not exclusive. You too can do it.
Another lolz at pretending tge average citizen isn't pulling in a buttload of uncle SAMs money. The only difference is yours isn't published.
up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees
props for actually covering your employees
CosmicCowboy
10-13-2013, 06:32 PM
Mine was going up 17.8% if I renewed my current company plan and will go up an estimated 26% next year if I wait until after Jan 1 to renew and have to meet the ACA mandates. They are accomplishing their goals with the ACA. Good guy employers are being forced out of employer provided health care.
CosmicCowboy
10-13-2013, 06:36 PM
And if anyone wonders why the difference, as an employer that provides insurance for employees I have the option of renewing my current plan before Jan 1. 2014 and then not having to meet the ACA guidelines until Jan 1, 2015.
CosmicCowboy
10-13-2013, 06:39 PM
Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.
angrydude
10-13-2013, 10:16 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/10/20131013_icare.jpg
scott
10-13-2013, 11:22 PM
That sucks. Same coverages?
Yes, exact same plan. This is a pretty typical increase over the last 4 years. I wouldn't really categorize it as sucks, it's about what I expect every year.
It's a small group with zero turnover, so there is also the fact that everyone is a year older every year (our table only considers age and gender).
scott
10-13-2013, 11:23 PM
Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.
This is true. It's for a December renewal.
scott
10-13-2013, 11:26 PM
Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.
And yeah, it's a pretty young group. My one employee over 50 years of age is actually about 25% of the total premium. And we have another employee over 40 and a few women. I could reduce my rates by just firing all of those employees! (Note, this is a joke... wouldn't actually do that).
scott
10-13-2013, 11:26 PM
props for actually covering your employees
Healthy employees make happy employees make better employees.
FuzzyLumpkins
10-14-2013, 01:56 AM
There is a limit to how much cost sharing can occur between age groups. It's stipulated in the new UW guidelines.
And while I am happy that you aren't seeing this as an outlier, I cannot help but feel any meaningful HC regulation would reduce the cost points considering how out of whack they are compared to the rest of the developed world.
scott
10-14-2013, 10:53 AM
I'll also add that I have a pretty nice plan for my employees. Just got a list of about 15 alternative plans (from our same HR services company that manages this plan for us) with potential cost savings of anywhere from 2-28%. And our HR company is investigating PEO options for me that could save money without losing any benefits.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/226492
byrontx
10-14-2013, 10:45 PM
Mine was going up 17.8% if I renewed my current company plan and will go up an estimated 26% next year if I wait until after Jan 1 to renew and have to meet the ACA mandates. They are accomplishing their goals with the ACA. Good guy employers are being forced out of employer provided health care.
On the other hand my start-up company is doing well and the ACA is my route for providing health coverage for my employees. It is an absolute plus for us.
boutons_deux
10-15-2013, 05:19 AM
"Good guy employers are being forced out of employer provided health care."
An excellent objective. Why should employers provide health insurance?
mandatory govt health insurance, public option, for everyone via payroll/income deduction is getting closer. Much simpler (no hyper-complicated choice), more efficient (like SS), no "providers network" carteliization, etc etc.
CosmicCowboy
10-15-2013, 06:47 AM
On the other hand my start-up company is doing well and the ACA is my route for providing health coverage for my employees. It is an absolute plus for us.
Oh, it may be a plus for me too. I will be running the numbers if they ever get the website to work. At first glance it appears I could "save" about 50K a year by putting my employees in ACA and giving them all raises to pay for their portion.
Of course, I won't really be "saving" 50K a year. The taxpayers will essentially just be giving me 50K a year.
Thanks!
RandomGuy
10-15-2013, 08:30 AM
Yes, it reduces their taxes. This doesn't make it tax payer subsidized. You really are a moron, aren't you...
Corporations pay a 35% federal marginal rate. For every $1,000,000 they pay in health care, They are still out $650,000 in federal taxes, plus what ever state taxes are.
This is no more a subsidy than the tax deductions you would be able to deduct if you didn't live if your grandmothers basement.
Actually it does.
Simply because you are unable to grasp or understand something doesn't make it false. It just means you have bumped up to the limits of what you are capable of.
It is a governent subsidy.
boutons_deux
10-15-2013, 08:50 AM
"For every $1,000,000 they pay in health care, They are still out $650,000 in federal taxes"
... blatantly FALSE
Gain tax advantages. You can offer employees something that increases their compensation package and yet allows you an income tax deduction for the contribution, so that your out-of-pocket cost is less than the value of the benefit to the employee. Self-employed individuals can deduct 100 percent of their health insurance premium costs as a business expense in 2003 and thereafter. You can always deduct 100 percent of premiums for your employees. If the business is incorporated, all costs for your own insurance as well as your employees' is deductible.
http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/sbg/office-hr/managing-the-workplace/offering-health-care-benefits.aspx (http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/sbg/office-hr/managing-the-workplace/offering-health-care-benefits.aspx)
The employer typically makes a substantial contribution towards the cost of coverage.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#cite_note-54) Typically, employers pay about 85% of the insurance premium for their employees, and about 75% of the premium for their employees' dependents. The employee pays the remaining fraction of the premium, usually with pre-tax/tax-exempt earnings.
Although workers are effectively paid less than they would be, because of the cost of insurance premiums to the employer, employer-sponsored health insurance offers several benefits to workers, including economies of scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale), a reduction in adverse selection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection) pressures on the insurance pool (premiums are lower when all employees participate rather than just the sickest), and reduced income taxes.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#cite_note-NBER-18) The disadvantages include disruptions related to changing jobs, the regressive tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax) effect (high-income workers benefit far more from the tax exemption for premiums than low-income workers), and increased spending on healthcare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#Employer-sponsored
HSA/FSA accounts are also deducted before tax.
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