View Full Version : Thunder: Boy, that Sam Presti sure is a genius, isn't he?
JohnnyMax
10-15-2013, 10:49 AM
Traded away James Harden and got the worst deal possible because they didn't want to amnesty Kendrick Perkins.
I'm glad someone finally brought this up.
Cowboys_Wear_Spurs
10-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Are you done talking to yourself???
Clipper Nation
10-15-2013, 11:16 AM
:lol Presti
:lol Overrated fraud who lucked out in the lottery
:lol Keeping Ibaka and Perkins over Harden
:lol Trading Harden for a year of Kevin Martin
:lol Now left with a two man team that lacks depth or the coaching to make up for it
Even with how skeptical people were about Harden as a primary option at the time, it STILL was the worst trade in NBA history :lol
The question is this though: Was it even possible to keep Harden? Delay the Ibaka signing. Amnesty Perkins. Do what you have to do do offer Harden a max. Does he even accept it? We'll never know. This guy knew what he had going. Does he really want to play behind KD and Westbrook or does he want to run his own show? I think he walks regardless...and I can't blame him.
elmanutres
10-15-2013, 12:05 PM
I wonder how the harden trade will look like 10 years from know. Knowing okc traded away their dynasty and championship hopes alongside harden.
baseline bum
10-15-2013, 12:14 PM
:lol Presti
:lol Overrated fraud who lucked out in the lottery
:lol Keeping Ibaka and Perkins over Harden
:lol Trading Harden for a year of Kevin Martin
:lol Now left with a two man team that lacks depth or the coaching to make up for it
Even with how skeptical people were about Harden as a primary option at the time, it STILL was the worst trade in NBA history :lol
Lucked out in the lottery? Nigga could have had Kevin Love instead of Westbrook.
I wonder how the harden trade will look like 10 years from know. Knowing okc traded away their dynasty and championship hopes alongside harden.
I think before you make a claim that Presti single handedly traded away what you claim he did, you have to answer the question of whether or not Harden was going to stay regardless of what Presti offered him. It's very, very reasonable to make the argument that there was at least a decent possibility that Harden was going to walk, simply for the fact that he knew he could be the top dog elsewhere and build a team around him, rather than playing "behind" KD and RW. Like I said, I can't blame someone of his caliber for wanting this. The fact is, I believe Presti felt as though Harden was going to walk at the end of the 2013 season when he went to free agency...this was a very real possibility.
Michael Jordan.
10-15-2013, 12:22 PM
Lucked out in the lottery? Nigga could have had Kevin Love instead of Westbrook.
Lucked out as in Portland picking Oden instead of Durant.
AchillesHeel
10-15-2013, 12:25 PM
:lol trading away Harden for a 1-year rental of Kevin Martin
:lol Harden goes from 6th man to top 10 player in the league
:lol Patrick Beverley single-handedly ends OKC's playoff hopes, results in Spurs going to the Finals which led to 6
:lol RWB fucked up knee surgery
:lol KD's bald spot
:lol Kendrick Perkins
:lol OKC
Fact is, Harden was going, period. I strongly believe this. You guys act like OKC had Harden by the balls and could do as they pleased with him and they just "let him go". Harden was going to play out the final year of his rookie contract and leave in free agency to run his own show elsewhere. That's fine. So in this case, yes OKC did trade away the chance at a 2013 championship in exchange for a year of KMart, a long term possibility in Lamb, and the #12 pick (now Adams). If you want to make a case against that, ok, but to claim Presti traded away years of championship possibilities is completely bogus because Harden was GONE after 2013 regardless.
Clipper Nation
10-15-2013, 12:27 PM
Imagine how the Thunderefs would look if Stern didn't make sure they spend 90% of every game at the free throw line on ticky-tack calls :lol
baseline bum
10-15-2013, 12:58 PM
Lucked out as in Portland picking Oden instead of Durant.
I don't think that's luck. Almost every other GM in the league would have picked Oden too.
baseline bum
10-15-2013, 01:02 PM
Fact is, Harden was going, period. I strongly believe this. You guys act like OKC had Harden by the balls and could do as they pleased with him and they just "let him go". Harden was going to play out the final year of his rookie contract and leave in free agency to run his own show elsewhere. That's fine. So in this case, yes OKC did trade away the chance at a 2013 championship in exchange for a year of KMart, a long term possibility in Lamb, and the #12 pick (now Adams). If you want to make a case against that, ok, but to claim Presti traded away years of championship possibilities is completely bogus because Harden was GONE after 2013 regardless.
Harden wasn't going to leave in restricted free agency last year, and no way he takes a one year offer last season just to take less on his contract this year had they not traded him. LOL rationalizations.
td4mvp2k
10-15-2013, 01:06 PM
I don't think that's luck. Almost every other GM in the league would have picked Oden too.
+ every other GM in da nba woodnt of made a dum trade like presti did
Harden wasn't going to leave in restricted free agency last year, and no way he takes a one year offer last season just to take less on his contract this year had they not traded him. LOL rationalizations.
He was under his rookie contract for 2013. That wasn't even in question. They were simply offering an extension beyond 2013. We'll never know what he would've done, but why do you find it impossible that he'd leave OKC? I think there was a strong possibility he was leaving as a free agent for the reasons I mentioned.
spurraider21
10-15-2013, 01:42 PM
The question is this though: Was it even possible to keep Harden? Delay the Ibaka signing. Amnesty Perkins. Do what you have to do do offer Harden a max. Does he even accept it? We'll never know. This guy knew what he had going. Does he really want to play behind KD and Westbrook or does he want to run his own show? I think he walks regardless...and I can't blame him.
Ibaka is irrelevant. The disparity between what they offered Harden and what Harden wanted was less than Perkins salary. They could have kept ibaka and harden if they amnestied Perkins or if they didn't extend him for 5 years like morons. Ibaka is not an excuse
Ibaka is irrelevant. The disparity between what they offered Harden and what Harden wanted was less than Perkins salary. They could have kept ibaka and harden if they amnestied Perkins or if they didn't extend him for 5 years like morons. Ibaka is not an excuse
I agree. I'm simply asking..did Harden even want to stay? Would he have taken ANY offer from Presti? I think he walked as a free agent at the end of 2013 had OKC decided to keep him for the final year of his rookie contract. I suspect Presti had some sort of inclination Harden was going elsewhere as a free agent and decided to forego the 1 year chance at a title in 2013 in order to get some trade value for him.
People act as if this is a one way highway. OKC puts the money up and Harden is theirs. Doesn't really work that way. There's at least two parties to a contract. Everyone seems to be assuming Harden wanted to stay in OKC long term. I have my doubts that he did.
spurraider21
10-15-2013, 01:58 PM
I agree. I'm simply asking..did Harden even want to stay? Would he have taken ANY offer from Presti? I think he walked as a free agent at the end of 2013 had OKC decided to keep him for the final year of his rookie contract. I suspect Presti had some sort of inclination Harden was going elsewhere as a free agent and decided to forego the 1 year chance at a title in 2013 in order to get some trade value for him.
People act as if this is a one way highway. OKC puts the money up and Harden is theirs. Doesn't really work that way. There's at least two parties to a contract. Everyone seems to be assuming Harden wanted to stay in OKC long term. I have my doubts that he did. He had a big role with the team was was the crunchtime ball handler more often than not. He had an opportunity to compete for a title for years. If they paid him enough he would have stayed. Instead they low balled him and gave him an ultimatum because they were paying perkins 8 mil annually
He had a big role with the team was was the crunchtime ball handler more often than not. He had an opportunity to compete for a title for years. If they paid him enough he would have stayed. Instead they low balled him and gave him an ultimatum because they were paying perkins 8 mil annually
If that were the case, I agree. I guess it's one of those things we won't know. However, the argument that he wanted to be dog #1 and run his own show is fairly reasonable.
Chinook
10-15-2013, 04:39 PM
I agree. I'm simply asking..did Harden even want to stay? Would he have taken ANY offer from Presti? I think he walked as a free agent at the end of 2013 had OKC decided to keep him for the final year of his rookie contract. I suspect Presti had some sort of inclination Harden was going elsewhere as a free agent and decided to forego the 1 year chance at a title in 2013 in order to get some trade value for him.
People act as if this is a one way highway. OKC puts the money up and Harden is theirs. Doesn't really work that way. There's at least two parties to a contract. Everyone seems to be assuming Harden wanted to stay in OKC long term. I have my doubts that he did.
No. Seriously no. Stop the misinformation. Harden COULD NOT just walk had OKC not extended him. That is not how the CBA works. The Thunder had the ability to hold his NBA rights for at least five years regardless of what he wanted. Had the Thunder chosen to keep him, Harden would be in one of three situations right now. He'd be playing under a standard qualifying offer (seriously as about unlikely has it gets), playing under the first year of a new deal (whether OKC gave it to him or matched another team's offer sheet), or playing under the first year of a maximum qualifying offer, which is essentially a unilateral max deal OKC can force Harden to sign since pretty much no one else would be able to give him a competitive deal. Players coming off rookie contracts just don't have the ability to walk away from their teams unilaterally.
Now you can try to come back and say that Harden could have complained and demanded a trade had OKC forced a max deal on him, but I doubt it. Them discussing a contract at all meant there was plenty of mutual interest. The trade really did come down to Presti thinking the Thunder could replace Harden's production for less money. No amount of spinning can change the fact that he grossly overestimated his own skill as a general manager.
Clipper Nation
10-15-2013, 04:40 PM
Thunderfan still spinning that atrocious asset management by Presti :lol
Michael Jordan.
10-15-2013, 04:41 PM
http://i.qkme.me/3u46o1.jpg
benefactor
10-15-2013, 05:27 PM
No. Seriously no. Stop the misinformation. Harden COULD NOT just walk had OKC not extended him. That is not how the CBA works. The Thunder had the ability to hold his NBA rights for at least five years regardless of what he wanted. Had the Thunder chosen to keep him, Harden would be in one of three situations right now. He'd be playing under a standard qualifying offer (seriously as about unlikely has it gets), playing under the first year of a new deal (whether OKC gave it to him or matched another team's offer sheet), or playing under the first year of a maximum qualifying offer, which is essentially a unilateral max deal OKC can force Harden to sign since pretty much no one else would be able to give him a competitive deal. Players coming off rookie contracts just don't have the ability to walk away from their teams unilaterally.
Now you can try to come back and say that Harden could have complained and demanded a trade had OKC forced a max deal on him, but I doubt it. Them discussing a contract at all meant there was plenty of mutual interest. The trade really did come down to Presti thinking the Thunder could replace Harden's production for less money. No amount of spinning can change the fact that he grossly overestimated his own skill as a general manager.
http://www.truthaboutit.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/WallBreaksIshAnkles.gif
Lucked out in the lottery? Nigga could have had Kevin Love instead of Westbrook.
Turned down Tyson as well didn't he? (they)
Leetonidas
10-15-2013, 07:11 PM
Harden wasn't going to leave in restricted free agency last year, and no way he takes a one year offer last season just to take less on his contract this year had they not traded him. LOL rationalizations.
This. Does Thunderfan even understand how the NBA works :lol
I think it depends on what the goal is at the franchise level. If they want to go deep into the playoffs and sell seats, they are doing it. If they want to win a ring for a price, they didn't have what they needed to get there anyhow. Harden off the bench wasn't going to keep happening. No black American male is going to come off the bench if he can get a starting role instead. It's not in his genetic makeup else he wouldn't be at the level he's at professionally. These guys are alphas in the world of basketball. The Dejuan Blairs and Matt Bonners of the NBA are the betas, but they make big money nonetheless.
So OKC played a hand similar to what Dallas played the year after their last Finals appearance. They let a big chip walk because they didn't want to pay for another ring. OKC is now getting the financial rewards for having a competitive team.
If you've ever played with muscle cars, you know that you can get a 16second quarter mile easily. You spend a little you can get 15.5. You have to spend a lot more to get 13.9 (world class) and exponentially more to get 13.5. 12.8 is like top 5 fastest in the world so imagine how much that costs. Same is true in the NBA. Aside from just juggernaut systems like SA, you have to spend a shit load of money to stay in the ring hunt when you built your success by acquiring known talent and signing 1 year deals. They are going to want big raises for getting you the ring. Harden got paid because he got to the Finals and because he's a significant reason the Thunder were there in the first place. They wouldn't beat the Heat though, the Spurs got much closer than the Thunder did and their best 6th man ever pretty much played for the opposition.
Baseline
10-15-2013, 08:03 PM
As a ballhandling guard, Harden obviously knew how bad Westbrook is as the primary PG. So since OKC had already signed Westbrook to a long deal, maybe Harden didn't want to stay unless he got maxed out - or maybe he didn't want to stay at all. Beverly is actually a great fit for Harden - a defensive-minded, pass-first PG. Westbrook is the opposite of that.
Clipper Nation
10-15-2013, 08:21 PM
This. Does Thunderfan even understand how the NBA works :lol
Nope, those meth-addled country bumpkins are just happy they stole a team and think they're entitled to Stern handouts at the free throw line every night.... gonna be really funny to see all the empty seats when Durflop bolts to Brooklyn ASAP :lol
thunderup
10-15-2013, 08:32 PM
Nope, those meth-addled country bumpkins are just happy they stole a team and think they're entitled to Stern handouts at the free throw line every night.... gonna be really funny to see all the empty seats when Durflop bolts to Brooklyn ASAP :lol
It's cute how you make KD to be some sell out prick like LeRoid. He's staying here in the great state of Oklahoma. Suck on it.
Captivus
10-15-2013, 08:56 PM
OKC made 1 mistake, and 1 mistake only:
You never sell-buy-trade something that you don't know the value.
At some point, and knowing they would be in that situation they should have play Jackson - Harden - Durant to see how bad or good that trio was.
They didn't "calculate" the value. Not only that, I beat they were also surprised at Jackson level during POs...another uncertainty.
At this point it looks like they made a mistake.
Knowing that they didn't know Harden's value, at this point I can also guess that if Westbrook remained healthy, there's a chance OKC doesn't use the team option on Jackson for next season. At this point, they will.
No. Seriously no. Stop the misinformation. Harden COULD NOT just walk had OKC not extended him. That is not how the CBA works. The Thunder had the ability to hold his NBA rights for at least five years regardless of what he wanted. Had the Thunder chosen to keep him, Harden would be in one of three situations right now. He'd be playing under a standard qualifying offer (seriously as about unlikely has it gets), playing under the first year of a new deal (whether OKC gave it to him or matched another team's offer sheet), or playing under the first year of a maximum qualifying offer, which is essentially a unilateral max deal OKC can force Harden to sign since pretty much no one else would be able to give him a competitive deal. Players coming off rookie contracts just don't have the ability to walk away from their teams unilaterally.
Now you can try to come back and say that Harden could have complained and demanded a trade had OKC forced a max deal on him, but I doubt it. Them discussing a contract at all meant there was plenty of mutual interest. The trade really did come down to Presti thinking the Thunder could replace Harden's production for less money. No amount of spinning can change the fact that he grossly overestimated his own skill as a general manager.
No he was still under his rookie contract last year. I wasn't implying he could walk prior to last season without an extension. I meant he knew he would get a max offer as a free agent and likely knew okc probably couldn't match it. You're right though okc could've matched any offer. I forgot about that, sorry. I still contend there was a good possibility running his own show was something Harden strongly considered. Thanks for clarifying though. I don't have a problem being corrected
elmanutres
10-16-2013, 02:10 AM
I think before you make a claim that Presti single handedly traded away what you claim he did, you have to answer the question of whether or not Harden was going to stay regardless of what Presti offered him. It's very, very reasonable to make the argument that there was at least a decent possibility that Harden was going to walk, simply for the fact that he knew he could be the top dog elsewhere and build a team around him, rather than playing "behind" KD and RW. Like I said, I can't blame someone of his caliber for wanting this. The fact is, I believe Presti felt as though Harden was going to walk at the end of the 2013 season when he went to free agency...this was a very real possibility.I think in my opinion harden would've stayed if okc gave him the money. It is true that it is possible he was planning on leaving anyways but I doubt it. He checked okc would show him the money. They didn't and harden demanded a trade. I believe this to be true since west brook signed a big contract with okc. I guess harden felt he was Also entitled of such a contract also. He wasn't gonna get it at okc so he looked elsewhere
Raven
10-16-2013, 04:02 AM
Fact is, Harden was going, period. I strongly believe this. You guys act like OKC had Harden by the balls and could do as they pleased with him and they just "let him go". Harden was going to play out the final year of his rookie contract and leave in free agency to run his own show elsewhere. That's fine. So in this case, yes OKC did trade away the chance at a 2013 championship in exchange for a year of KMart, a long term possibility in Lamb, and the #12 pick (now Adams). If you want to make a case against that, ok, but to claim Presti traded away years of championship possibilities is completely bogus because Harden was GONE after 2013 regardless.
apparently you don't know what a fact is. And no, he was not going...
apparently you don't know what a fact is. And no, he was not going...
The fact was that was my opinion. You can't take everything in a literal sense. Clearly I don't know for a fact he was leaving. If I had the ability to foresee the future I'd be doing something else with my time.
But given Okc could match offers, I see the argument that Presti simply saw him as valued at the offer given. Harden was worth a max contract to me, but I don't cut the checks.
Raven
10-16-2013, 06:49 AM
But given Okc could match offers, I see the argument that Presti simply saw him as valued at the offer given. Harden was worth a max contract to me, but I don't cut the checks.
In Presti's mind, he thought Martin would be the perfect fit (which he indeed, was) to play off the ball, he also thought Lamb would be a stud (which he can still be, but he needs to bulk up a lot first) and he expected the pick to be top 3 (here he was unucky). Along with that comes a discussion about positional value, the sg position is the easiest to fill while the c is the hardest, hence he choosed to keep perkins instead of Harden. It was retarded, but his gamble made some sense. Not much though..
In Presti's mind, he thought Martin would be the perfect fit (which he indeed, was) to play off the ball, he also thought Lamb would be a stud (which he can still be, but he needs to bulk up a lot first) and he expected the pick to be top 3 (here he was unucky). Along with that comes a discussion about positional value, the sg position is the easiest to fill while the c is the hardest, hence he choosed to keep perkins instead of Harden. It was retarded, but his gamble made some sense. Not much though..
I guess hindsight is always 20/20. He's running a small market team on a tighter budget and I can see both sides of the argument I guess. I think Presti is just a very calculated business person and operates in some pretty confined sets of numbers, so he put a number on Harden and stuck to it. Lamb at SG is still a big question, although he definitely has the talent. He's not shown anything to anyone yet. I think out of this deal Adams is a potential beast. We'll see. He looks strong in preseason.
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