Who would you rather have at backup PG: Joseph or Mills

[SpursFan86]

These are our two (realistic) options as of now...who are you more confident in? They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and tbh I'm not thrilled with the idea of either of them as backup PG. Joseph is a solid defender but is lacking offensively. Mills, on the other hand, has a nice offensive game and has the potential to provide a spark of scoring off the bench. Defensively, however, he leaves much to be desired.

[chapnis]

CJ, but Mills so far ahead of De Colo.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Mills is no PG. If CoJo doesn't improve and if they cut De Colo I expect them to get a veteran PG for the min. Or if there's no one they like they may try with Belinelli.

[SpursFan86]

Yeah, Mills' playstyle is really much more along the lines of a SG. He just doesn't have the size to play the 2.

[Darkwaters]

I typically think our backup point guard needs to be a point guard. As much as I genuinely like Mills, hes a situational player as a really small 2. Joseph is really the only option we have.

[mudyez]

CJ as the real backup pointguard.

Mills as the TP impersonator when TP sits out and as midget-SG alongside Manu if we need a change of scenery.

[Raven]

Joseph no doubt.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Mills would be really good to take pressure off Manu and Marco. But I think it really depends on situations and series. Let CoJo continue to grow while they share the reps. We don't need Nando.

[dbestpro]

CoJo plays the best defense is okay offensively, but so far has shown very little when it comes to setting up other players for opened looks. I am still wondering if he will every learn to run the pick and roll.

Patty Mills by far is the superior shooter. When he is scrappy he plays better defense. his problem is simliar to CoJo's in that he does not do what a traditional PG needs to do, very well, that being passing and setting up other players.

DeColo, while not on this list, is more of an example of hoe is has fallen victim to the mob mentality, than looking at his basketball play. He looked pretty solid against Denver, and yet was still taking heat for not being perfect. He is by far the superior passer of the three, but struggles to keep up on defense. His out side shot is okay, and is similar to CoJo.

In the end they all do one thing better than the other guy, and is the reason Pop has not been able to completely settle on one backup PG. Whoever, has the spot seems to play their way out of the spot.

[bklynspursfan]

CoJo plays the best defense is okay offensively, but so far has shown very little when it comes to setting up other players for opened looks. I am still wondering if he will every learn to run the pick and roll.

Patty Mills by far is the superior shooter. When he is scrappy he plays better defense. his problem is simliar to CoJo's in that he does not do what a traditional PG needs to do, very well, that being passing and setting up other players.

DeColo, while not on this list, is more of an example of hoe is has fallen victim to the mob mentality, than looking at his basketball play. He looked pretty solid against Denver, and yet was still taking heat for not being perfect. He is by far the superior passer of the three, but struggles to keep up on defense. His out side shot is okay, and is similar to CoJo.

In the end they all do one thing better than the other guy, and is the reason Pop has not been able to completely settle on one backup PG. Whoever, has the spot seems to play their way out of the spot.

+1

I wouldn't mind Mills out of the 3, but like you said he's just not the traditional PG. But with Marco & Manu off the bench maybe that's not the worst thing

[Boomersgold]

We've already established that Mills isn't a true point guard, but how do we define what a true point guard is? How many of the league's starting point guards are pass-first, create-for-others guards? Derrick Rose? Russell Westbrook? Kyrie Irving? Stephen Curry? Brandon Jennings? They're all guards with a shoot-first mentality.

[PlayNando]

These are our two (realistic) options as of now...who are you more confident in? They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and tbh I'm not thrilled with the idea of either of them as backup PG. Joseph is a solid defender but is lacking offensively. Mills, on the other hand, has a nice offensive game and has the potential to provide a spark of scoring off the bench. Defensively, however, he leaves much to be desired.
Stupid question/poll is stupid.

1. De Colo
2. Joseph
3. Mills

[benfti]

I think a lot of it is going to depend on who is also out on the floor in the second unit if its Belly and Manu on the wings, and setting up offense, it has to be Mills, if its about getting looks for other people or shutting down anyone it has to be Cojo. I say rotate it depending on who we are playing.

[Strategic]

If Manu stays healthy and well enough rested then it depends on whether Manu is in the game or not since he likes to handle the ball. If Manu's in the game then Mills, if not then Joseph should be needed to handle the ball and run the offense.

[look_at_g_shred]

Joseph! Hands down!! Defense and playmaking over inconsistent hot shooting.

[look_at_g_shred]

2nd Unit should be Joseph at PG, Beli at SG, Manu at SF, Ayres at PF, and Diaw at C . This unit could really do damage to the opponents defense because there are 4 ball handlers out there who have great vision and who can pass and cut.

[TXstbobcat]

Joseph. He looks to have improved over the offseason.

[Drom John]

Depends.
Against a decent opposing PG, then Joseph running the usual Spurs offense.
Against a bad opposing PG, then Mills, creating havoc.

[monkeypunk]

I don't see CJ having the creativity to effectively run point, but Mills doesn't either. Either one has to have another playmaker on the floor with them anyway so the lesser of two evils would be CJ as he can at least defend.

[Hoops Czar]

It will be pg by committee AGAIN. It really doesn't matter who'll get the honors to start the season because once again, the FO has failed to find a suitable vet back up for Tony. This means down the stretch, and into the playoffs, it's going to be Manu, something I thought the FO should/would have wanted to avoid coming into this season.

[td4mvp2k]

Shood be mills n have cojo play if a pg is out

[cd021]

Beli, Man & Diaw all can create offense with their passing. Mills is clearly the best of the 3 PG's shooting the ball. We don't need a traditional pg to play with our bench.

[Boomersgold]

Beli, Man & Diaw all can create offense with their passing. Mills is clearly the best of the 3 PG's shooting the ball. We don't need a traditional pg to play with our bench.

Exactly my thoughts. Besides, how many of today's 'elite' point guards are traditional point guards who have that pass-first mentality?

[Hoops Czar]

Exactly my thoughts. Besides, how many of today's 'elite' point guards are traditional point guards who have that pass-first mentality?

How many of those other teams run a pass-centric offense like the Spurs? If you have a PG on the floor that can't create for his teammates, then you're playing a lot of isolation basketball. Apparently, you weren't tuned into last season with Manu and Diaw coming off the bench. The starters would give the Spurs the lead and the bench would give it right back primarily because the Spurs lacked a floor general with Parker on the bench.

It took Pop the entire season to find Tony's backup before settling on CoJo. Even then, Pop went with Manu during crunch time.

[timtonymanu]

Joseph is valuable for his defense alone. But he has the tendency to be passive which makes him look useless on the floor.

Mills, on the other hand, has a shoot first mentality, which is valuable. But he's a terrible defender. Maybe the weight loss will help him improve.

I would go with Joseph for now, but he's got to be aggressive every game.

[timtonymanu]

Exactly my thoughts. Besides, how many of today's 'elite' point guards are traditional point guards who have that pass-first mentality?

I wouldn't say CoJo is an elite point guard either.

I guess it depends on the situation. If the Spurs need offense, then you would go with Mills since CJ isn't so assertive on that end. But considering Belinelli is a subpar defender, it would be risky to play Mills alongside him if the Spurs need defense. CJ would make more sense in that situation.

[monkeypunk]

I would go with Joseph for now, but he's got to be aggressive every game.

I think a key component for either is playing time and Pop's short leash. If they keep getting yanked cause they made a mistake, they never get confidence in their abilities or a rhythm with the other players. Leave them out there to deal with their mistakes and their impact will grow with their confidence.

[Boomersgold]

How many of those other teams run a pass-centric offense like the Spurs? If you have a PG on the floor that can't create for his teammates, then you're playing a lot of isolation basketball. Apparently, you weren't tuned into last season with Manu and Diaw coming off the bench. The starters would give the Spurs the lead and the bench would give it right back primarily because the Spurs lacked a floor general with Parker on the bench.

It took Pop the entire season to find Tony's backup before settling on CoJo. Even then, Pop went with Manu during crunch time.

Pop should pick a point guard and stick to developing him.

I completely disagree with the bolded bit. At one point in the season, the Spurs were hailed by the media as having one of the deepest benches in the league (not talent wise, but in terms of how they played as a team).

[benstanfield]

Give up on Cojo. Honestly, what do people think his ceiling is? At best he will be a serviceable backup PG, but as it is now he plays slightly above average defense and does nothing on offense. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't facilitate. He just won't be a standout rotation player in this lifetime.

Mills isn't a PG, but YOU DON'T NEED ONE IF YOUR BENCH UNIT HAS BELLI AT SG AND MANU AT SF. What DOES make your offense better, with players like Manu & Marco coming off the bench, is OUTSIDE SHOOTING I.E. SPACING. If Patty can even attain an elementary grasp of the offense he should get open looks in bunches.

His skill set is just better for what we need out of our particular situation at backup PG.

De Colo is a SG, and not a very good one. In hindsight it made no sense for him to come overseas. Also you can tell Pop doesn't like him.

[spurraider21]

If Mills was 3 inches taller, he'd be a better Neal. Although, Mills can still play some point if Manu is on the floor in that "babysitting" role we've seen him play, where he runs the offense. I think the dream of Spurfan is for CoJo to actually take the job over, rather than just have it handed to him because nobody else could do it. He seems tentative, like he'd rather be off-ball, but he has the best ability of the group to be the backup pg

[spurraider21]

Give up on Cojo. Honestly, what do people think his ceiling is? At best he will be a serviceable backup PG, but as it is now he plays slightly above average defense and does nothing on offense. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't facilitate. He just won't be a standout rotation player in this lifetime.

Mills isn't a PG, but YOU DON'T NEED ONE IF YOUR BENCH UNIT HAS BELLI AT SG AND MANU AT SF. What DOES make your offense better, with players like Manu & Marco coming off the bench, is OUTSIDE SHOOTING I.E. SPACING. If Patty can even attain an elementary grasp of the offense he should get open looks in bunches.

His skill set is just better for what we need out of our particular situation at backup PG.

De Colo is a SG, and not a very good one. In hindsight it made no sense for him to come overseas. Also you can tell Pop doesn't like him.
Unfortunately, I sort of agree with much of the post, although CoJo still should get this year to prove himself. Though I find it unlikely if he hasn't been able to do it in the preseason.

[Hoops Czar]

Pop should pick a point guard and stick to developing him.

I completely disagree with the bolded bit. At one point in the season, the Spurs were hailed by the media as having one of the deepest benches in the league (not talent wise, but in terms of how they played as a team).

I wouldn't put much stock in what the media has to say. They usually have their own agenda. They had one of the deepest benches in terms of potential, but not always execution. With my own eyes, I saw the bench consistently blow 4th quarter leads down the stretch. There were plenty of examples throughout the regular season and post season when the second unit struggled offensively to put points on the board. There were even stretches of game that saw them shoot nothing but three's for the entire 3-4 minutes they were on the floor together. Most of those three's involved very little ball movement and spot up jump shots with a good 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

Btw, a second unit of Mills at point, Beli at SG and Manu at SF is something that shouldn't even be joked about. That would be one of the worst perimeter defensive alignments Pop could throw out there. The potential uptick in offensive production would be trumped by the damage done on the defensive end.

[benstanfield]

Unfortunately, I sort of agree with much of the post, although CoJo still should get this year to prove himself. Though I find it unlikely if he hasn't been able to do it in the preseason.

To be a solid rotation player you have to have at least one NBA skill, a calling card. Boris has passing, Belli and Manu facilitating, Mills outside shooting. But Cojo? It certainly isn't Tony Allen or Avery Bradley level defense. You could say he plays, what, ten percent better defense than Mills? The eye test shows him to be an adequate NBA defender, but that doesn't make it his calling card just because our other PG's suck at it. He just doesn't do anything at a level that will make a difference, other than not screwing up most of the time. Playing time isn't going to make him a knock-down shooter, and it isn't going to give him the instincts to be a great facilitator.

We know what Cojo is: good enough at everything to be in the NBA, not good enough at anything to play significant minutes in the NBA.

It sucks that our only other option is Mills, but I really feel like his skills fit better with our bench so long as he can stay in front of his man. Unless he plays Neal-level defense he is the better choice.

[benstanfield]

Btw, a second unit of Mills at point, Beli at SG and Manu at SF is something that shouldn't even be joked about. That would be one of the worst perimeter defensive alignments Pop could throw out there. The potential uptick in offensive production would be trumped by the damage done on the defensive end.

Manu is our backup SF at this point so unless there is a better scrap heap defender that's where he'll be (probably subbing in at SG until Kawhi comes out and Belli comes in).

Belli is what he is on defense, he's going to be on the court anyways so it doesn't matter for the purposes of your point.

So is Cojo really gonna be a difference maker on D? I am legitimately asking, can you show me some stats or replays that suggest he is anything more than an adequate defender? His DRtg of 104 isn't stellar, and it isn't leaps and bounds above Patty's 107. His reputation for defense seems to me to stem from the lack of any adequate defenders at backup PG these last few years (see: Neal, Gary).

Let's assume Mills is at least able to stay in front of his man and not make stupid obvious mistakes leading to open shots like Neal did so much. Is CoJo, maybe one or two notches above Mills at defense but with no contribution save not messing up on offense, really a better option?

I think if you cloned Ayres, Diaw, Manu, and Belli, and made our bench play against itself with Cojo opposing Mills at point, Mills' team would win at least 3/4 of the time.

Even if we assume Cojo is a good B+ defender, he's going to be shutting down whom exactly? The Norris Cole's and CJ Watson's of the league? Patrick Beverly?

[benstanfield]

I think the real point to be made here is that they aren't mutually exclusive, and that having fire/ice specialty players backing up the same position can be beneficial to flexibility with line ups.

On my 2K13 franchise my backup SG's are Corey Brewer and Anthony Morrow. It works perfectly because if I need stops and rebounds I can sub in Brewer, but if I need spacing and scoring I go for Morrow. As long as they are adequate in all facets but have opposing specialties, the same logic can apply. If we assume Mills gives us on offense what Cojo gives us on defense, and that they are both adequate in the opposite, then it just makes the roster more flexible.

[txstr1986]

To be a solid rotation player you have to have at least one NBA skill, a calling card. Boris has passing, Belli and Manu facilitating, Mills outside shooting. But Cojo? It certainly isn't Tony Allen or Avery Bradley level defense. You could say he plays, what, ten percent better defense than Mills? The eye test shows him to be an adequate NBA defender, but that doesn't make it his calling card just because our other PG's suck at it. He just doesn't do anything at a level that will make a difference, other than not screwing up most of the time. Playing time isn't going to make him a knock-down shooter, and it isn't going to give him the instincts to be a great facilitator.

We know what Cojo is: good enough at everything to be in the NBA, not good enough at anything to play significant minutes in the NBA.

It sucks that our only other option is Mills, but I really feel like his skills fit better with our bench so long as he can stay in front of his man. Unless he plays Neal-level defense he is the better choice.

100% agree. CoJo is just average at everything, but at least Patty can score in bunches, even if he is a marginally below average defender.

[look_at_g_shred]

I think you bring Corey right off the bench for Tp, and if he looks un-aggressive and his shot isn't there, sub in Mills right away.

[McGusto55]

Mills

[Sean88888]

Manu, with Mills playing SG

[Hoops Czar]

Manu is our backup SF at this point so unless there is a better scrap heap defender that's where he'll be (probably subbing in at SG until Kawhi comes out and Belli comes in).

Belli is what he is on defense, he's going to be on the court anyways so it doesn't matter for the purposes of your point.

So is Cojo really gonna be a difference maker on D? I am legitimately asking, can you show me some stats or replays that suggest he is anything more than an adequate defender? His DRtg of 104 isn't stellar, and it isn't leaps and bounds above Patty's 107. His reputation for defense seems to me to stem from the lack of any adequate defenders at backup PG these last few years (see: Neal, Gary).

Let's assume Mills is at least able to stay in front of his man and not make stupid obvious mistakes leading to open shots like Neal did so much. Is CoJo, maybe one or two notches above Mills at defense but with no contribution save not messing up on offense, really a better option?

I think if you cloned Ayres, Diaw, Manu, and Belli, and made our bench play against itself with Cojo opposing Mills at point, Mills' team would win at least 3/4 of the time.

Even if we assume Cojo is a good B+ defender, he's going to be shutting down whom exactly? The Norris Cole's and CJ Watson's of the league? Patrick Beverly?

Hey, you don't have to convince me the FO screwed up this off season. Instead of filling holes and shoring up glaring weaknesses, they used MLE money to sign a 4th big to replace a seldom used Dejuan Blair then, signed a lesser version of Gary Neal in Marco Belinelli. Meanwhile, the FO did nothing to address the needs at backup SF and PG.

Within the Spurs carousel rotation, I think it would be more advisable to put Diaw at SF even if that means giving Ginobili less court time during the regular season. It's probably safe to assume Manu will spend some time at SF when Pop plays his small ball lineup. Hopefully, Mills will be on the bench during that time.

I don't need to prove CoJo's better than Mills defensively. Mills is a margially less experienced version of Gary Neal with slightly better handles. Neither are suitable backups but both will be pressed into action because the only other option is De Crapo and he can't defend, facilitate or shoot.

You're telling me that Mill's team would win 3/4 of the games with the lineup you suggested, yet, Mills had plenty of chances during last year's regular season to take over the reigns of backup PG but couldn't. What makes you think this year will be any different? Are you seriously making future projections based on a couple of pre-season games?

I don't have a friggin clue how this will all shake out. One could only hope that Pop nails down a working rotation by mid March so players will have plenty of time to adapt to their roles before heading into the playoffs.

[HI-FI]

Give up on Cojo. Honestly, what do people think his ceiling is? At best he will be a serviceable backup PG, but as it is now he plays slightly above average defense and does nothing on offense. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't facilitate. He just won't be a standout rotation player in this lifetime.

Mills isn't a PG, but YOU DON'T NEED ONE IF YOUR BENCH UNIT HAS BELLI AT SG AND MANU AT SF. What DOES make your offense better, with players like Manu & Marco coming off the bench, is OUTSIDE SHOOTING I.E. SPACING. If Patty can even attain an elementary grasp of the offense he should get open looks in bunches.

His skill set is just better for what we need out of our particular situation at backup PG.

De Colo is a SG, and not a very good one. In hindsight it made no sense for him to come overseas. Also you can tell Pop doesn't like him.

agree with most of this. if Pop doesn't like De Colo, it's probably from DeColo's whiny, entitled attitude imo. That seems to piss Pop off the most. I don't blame him tbh.

I honestly can't tell who is the best fit, and that is troubling, since I was hoping a strong candidate would emerge or be acquired. At this point, I'm leaning towards Mills because he seems the hungriest for the job. Plus he can obviously score in bunches which is very underrated. He's obviously a team guy so I think his D will improve, I can't ever see it being as consistently lazy or shitty as Neil's D.

[elemento]

I think SA can use both, depending on the opponents.

Mills is a better shooter and a good 3-pointer and if Manu or Beli are running the point most of the time, I think he might be a good option. On the other hand, if we need someone to defend bigger PGs and take some of the pressure of Manu/Beli, Cojo is probably a better choice.

[kobexxx]

does it really matter?

[hooperflash]

T.J. Ford :(

[ohmwrecker]

Neither.

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop is going to pick Corey over mills 9 times out of 10. Pop values defense over offense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I like them both but I think people are overvaluing CoJo's ability to run the offense. He is okay but I hardly see him as being light years ahead of Mills. Both of them need a lot of work on the pnr sets.

[Ice009]

Shood be mills n have cojo play if a pg is out

In order to win a Championship, you really need to have very good defense. That is my main problem with Mills. I'm still willing to give him another shot, but if his defense doesn't improve quite a lot, then I am not sure I would want to give him that spot. I like Cory's defense much better, but he needs to get a lot better on offense. It's really annoying how each one of the backup PGs have big deficiencies in their games that differ from one another.

[Boomersgold]

De Colo played extended minutes at the backup pg tonight against the Hawks. Did he impress you? What part of his game impressed you the most?