Clyde "The Glide" Drexler vs. Paul "The Truth" Pierce

[Phillip]

Clyde Drexler Accomplishments

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html

10x All Star
1x NBA Champion (3 Finals appearances)
2x All NBA 3rd Team
2x All NBA 2nd Team
1x All NBA 1st Team



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2gfVpcMRWs


Paul Pierce Accomplishments

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/piercpa01.html

10x All Star
1x NBA champion (2 Finals Appearances)
1x Finals MVP
3x All NBA 3rd Team
1x All NBA 2nd Team



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4ftelBASlM



Both players have quite comparable stats across the board, as well as advanced stats. Drexler was a supreme athlete with a solid skillset, and was generally on loaded teams most of his career. Some feel his Blazers teams underachieved, others say they had the misfortune of running into some very hot teams in the Pistons and Bulls in the Finals. He got a championship, but did so by jumping ship underneath Hakeem and the Rockets late in his career. Pierce was a solid athlete, but never really based his game on athleticism. He has always had a fantastic jumper and a crafty, versatile skillset. Was stuck on garbage teams early in his career, but stayed through it all with his team, and somehow got one game away from the Finals with Antoine Walker as his second option. When he finally got some legitimate support, the Celtics were quite dominant, he outplayed Kobe offensively and defensively in the finals, and led his team to a championship. They probably would have repeated, and MAYBE even 3-peated, if it weren't for some untimely injuries (KG in 09, Perkins in the 10 Finals).



Who do you take? Why?

And please don't turn this into a Kobe thread. Faggots.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Drex, but it's close.

[RsxPiimp]

Kobe shits on both :lol

[Buddy Mignon]

If you combine the skillsets of Drexler and Pierce. .. you still don't come close to what Kobe has even at 35 with a torn achilles.

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe shits on both :lol


If you combine the skillsets of Drexler and Pierce with my Naruto faggotry. .. you still don't come close to what Kobe has even at 35 with a torn achilles.
^ Exhibits A and B of why serious basketball conversation isn't possible on here :downspin:

I would take Drexler, tbh.....

[AchillesHeel]

Drexler because of nostalgia, Pierce because I've been a fan since the early 2000s, basically his whole career.

[RsxPiimp]

^ Exhibits A and B of why serious basketball conversation isn't possible on here :downspin:

I would take Drexler, tbh.....
I created one of the best basketball thread this offseason go fuck yourself:lol

[AchillesHeel]

I created one of the best basketball thread this offseason go fuck yourself:lol

This thread is about Pierce vs Drexler, and you still managed to involve Kirby in this.

Seriously, can you for once talk basketball without involving the rapist?

[RsxPiimp]

Pierce is craftier, has no flare and just get the job done. drexler liked to look good during his prime years. Defensively pierce is a much much better player, I'll give the rebounding to clyde, he was a hawk and would clean the glass better than most guards.

Clutch and defense? Pierce shits on drexler. Pierce would kick ass in the 80-90's. His game was built for that minus the flop

Clutch and defense goes to pierce, I'm picking Paul.

[AchillesHeel]

Pierce is craftier, has no flare and just get the job done. drexler liked to look good during his prime years. Defensively pierce is a much much better player, I'll give the rebounding to clyde, he was a hawk and would clean the glass better than most guards.

Clutch and defense? Pierce shits on drexler. Pierce would kick ass in the 80-90's. His game was built for that minus the flop

Clutch and defense goes to pierce, I'm picking Paul.

Thank you.

[ambchang]

Drexler was the better overall player. Better at directing offense, arguably a better shooter (factoring in the era), most definitely the better athlete, better rebounder.

But Pierce is the better finisher with an assortment of moves, great mid-range game, can post up, can shoot from outside, just very difficult to stop.

Their defense is pretty much equal, and both being average.

I will pick Drexler, but purely because of nostalgic reasons, they are really really close.

[8FOR!3]

I'll take Paul Pierce, reasons have already been explained by others.

[Spur-Addict]

Kobe shits on both :lol

Steak boy shat on himself with TheRape.

[baseline bum]

I'll take Pierce; better defense and more range.

[RsxPiimp]

And Calling pierce' defense as average is pretty retarded tbh. He was one of the better yet underrated defender among swingmen

[TDMVPDPOY]

that blazers team that went to the finals 2x...stacked but couldnt get it done....

[ambchang]

And Calling pierce' defense as average is pretty retarded tbh. He was one of the better yet underrated defender among swingmen

LOL, him stopping and significantly outplaying Kobe in 08 does not make him a great defender. He had a career DRtg of around 102 and DWS of around 3 to 5 games, which isn't bad, but isn't phenomenal given the minutes he played. After factoring in eras, those numbers are very much the same as what Drexler put up in his career.

[JamStone]

LOL, him stopping and significantly outplaying Kobe in 08 does not make him a great defender. He had a career DRtg of around 102 and DWS of around 3 to 5 games, which isn't bad, but isn't phenomenal given the minutes he played. After factoring in eras, those numbers are very much the same as what Drexler put up in his career.

I'm no advanced stats geek, but that 102 DRtg and that 3-5 DWS are both in line with what Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen did in their careers. And you don't have to factor in eras, because they played in the same era as Paul Pierce. Pierce's defensive advanced stats seem really good.

Pierce has always been a solid defender, but he's a really good defender when he has teammates who are also good defenders. Pierce knows how to play great team defense and when he knows he has help, that allows him to cheat and gamble more. He makes up for his lack of elite athleticism with good sound technique and basketball IQ and awareness. I'd say Pierce is one of the better and more underrated wing defenders of the 2000s.

[AchillesHeel]

LOL, him stopping and significantly outplaying Kobe in 08 does not make him a great defender. He had a career DRtg of around 102 and DWS of around 3 to 5 games, which isn't bad, but isn't phenomenal given the minutes he played. After factoring in eras, those numbers are very much the same as what Drexler put up in his career.

Pierce at least used to be a solid defender, that 08 Finals lockdown on Kirby was pretty sweet, tbh.

[ambchang]

I'm no advanced stats geek, but that 102 DRtg and that 3-5 DWS are both in line with what Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen did in their careers. And you don't have to factor in eras, because they played in the same era as Paul Pierce. Pierce's defensive advanced stats seem really good.

Pierce has always been a solid defender, but he's a really good defender when he has teammates who are also good defenders. Pierce knows how to play great team defense and when he knows he has help, that allows him to cheat and gamble more. He makes up for his lack of elite athleticism with good sound technique and basketball IQ and awareness. I'd say Pierce is one of the better and more underrated wing defenders of the 2000s.

Again, factoring in minutes played. DRtg was a product of team D as well, so that should be compared to his own teammates. For example, Garnett had DWS of around 5 to 6, Rondo hovers around 5. Again, Pierce wasn't bad, just that he wasn't all that phenomenal.

I agree that he is a good team d player, but not a lockdown like Bowen or Artest.

[Phillip]

I agree that he is a good team d player, but not a lockdown like Bowen or Artest.

To be fair, how often do you see people who are the #1 scorer on their team, being a lockdown defender for entire games? Most superstar players in history have been fully capable of playing elite defense, but general don't until late in close games. This include Lebron, Kobe, MJ, and many others. I think Pierce falls in this category. He may allow some scores and put less effort through most of the game, but when he needs to step up and play lockdown defense, I've rarely seen him come up short in that regards. I always feel that star scorers should be given a little more slack on their defense, no matter who they are or how bad they seem on defense (including people with bad defensive reputations like Bird, Magic, Barkley, Nash, and Dirk). For instance, people bash on Nash an awful lot, but when you watch him, when he needs to play good defense, he actually moves his feet extremely well and does a good job staying in front of his man, and he has never really had the benefit of a reliable big man behind him to give him help. Still not a good defender, just not as bad as people make him out to be, but he has a few legit excuses to go along with it as well.

People who aren't relied on to be primary scorers like Artest, Tony Allen, Bruce Bowen, are able to spend more energy throughout the game on a nightly basis focusing on playing shutdown defense.

[RsxPiimp]

I'm no advanced stats geek, but that 102 DRtg and that 3-5 DWS are both in line with what Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen did in their careers. And you don't have to factor in eras, because they played in the same era as Paul Pierce. Pierce's defensive advanced stats seem really good.

Pierce has always been a solid defender, but he's a really good defender when he has teammates who are also good defenders. Pierce knows how to play great team defense and when he knows he has help, that allows him to cheat and gamble more. He makes up for his lack of elite athleticism with good sound technique and basketball IQ and awareness. I'd say Pierce is one of the better and more underrated wing defenders of the 2000s.

Jamstone with some irrefutable goods tbh.

[ambchang]

To be fair, how often do you see people who are the #1 scorer on their team, being a lockdown defender for entire games? Most superstar players in history have been fully capable of playing elite defense, but general don't until late in close games. This include Lebron, Kobe, MJ, and many others. I think Pierce falls in this category. He may allow some scores and put less effort through most of the game, but when he needs to step up and play lockdown defense, I've rarely seen him come up short in that regards. I always feel that star scorers should be given a little more slack on their defense, no matter who they are or how bad they seem on defense (including people with bad defensive reputations like Bird, Magic, Barkley, Nash, and Dirk).

People who aren't relied on to be primary scorers like Artest, Tony Allen, Bruce Bowen, are able to spend more energy throughout the game on a nightly basis focusing on playing shutdown defense.

Fair point, but that still doesn't make him a lockdown defender. Also, Lebron and MJ does plenty of lockdown when they play.

[Phillip]

Fair point, but that still doesn't make him a lockdown defender. Also, Lebron and MJ does plenty of lockdown when they play.

I won't say he should be considered quite in the category of Artest, Lebron, or Bowen, but he is still very good when he needs to be. At least good enough to the point that he should be considered above average defensively.

[RsxPiimp]

People have selective memories, pierce also effectively locked up Lebron in 2008 eastern semis iirc holding lebron to 40% shooting. Pierce is anything but average, don't let the lack of all defensive selection fool you.

There's a reason why Lebron named pierce as his biggest rival. Prime pierce was tough as nails.

[The Reckoning]

drexler had a better supporting cast and athleticism. pierce has a better bball iq imo.

[ambchang]

People have selective memories, pierce also effectively locked up Lebron in 2008 eastern semis iirc holding lebron to 40% shooting. Pierce is anything but average, don't let the lack of all defensive selection fool you.

There's a reason why Lebron named pierce as his biggest rival. Prime pierce was tough as nails.

Pierce was a great competitor, but using the Lebron example was poor. The Celtics were ganging up on Lebron because there wasn't another guy on the Cavs Boston had to guard. It's not like Lebron had the most dominating frontline to pass to when he was tripled.

[TXstbobcat]

Drexler over Pierce but not by much.

[Phillip]

People have selective memories, pierce also effectively locked up Lebron in 2008 eastern semis iirc holding lebron to 40% shooting. Pierce is anything but average, don't let the lack of all defensive selection fool you.

There's a reason why Lebron named pierce as his biggest rival. Prime pierce was tough as nails.


Pierce was a great competitor, but using the Lebron example was poor. The Celtics were ganging up on Lebron because there wasn't another guy on the Cavs Boston had to guard. It's not like Lebron had the most dominating frontline to pass to when he was tripled.

Looks like ambchang took the words right out of my mouth. Talk about selective memories... RsxPiimp will do anything to try to trash Lebron by talking out of his ass.

[RsxPiimp]

Looks like ambchang took the words right out of my mouth. Talk about selective memories... RsxPiimp will do anything to try to trash Lebron by talking out of his ass.

Why are you so fucking sensitive when it comes to Lebron ? It was a serious discussion until you become defensive. I'm not trying to trash Lebron, i can do that some other time. Pierce did well against Lebron, let's not sugarcoat that and be objective at least.


That post wasn't to bring Lebron down, but to show Pierce can take a defensive task well, it was a rebuttal to that retarded take that pierce is an average defender. Smh.

[JamStone]

Again, factoring in minutes played. DRtg was a product of team D as well, so that should be compared to his own teammates. For example, Garnett had DWS of around 5 to 6, Rondo hovers around 5. Again, Pierce wasn't bad, just that he wasn't all that phenomenal.


I don't understand this response. You were the one who brought up DRtg and DWS to begin with. Now you're trying to qualify it and discredit it as it applies to Pierce. Why did you mention it at all in the first place? Pierce put up very good defensive (advanced stats) seasons even before playing with KG and Rondo, including a season where he posted a 99 DRtg and a 5.6 DWS... again WITHOUT KG and Rondo.

Pierce has always been a very good defender. But as some have already mentioned and/or suggested, as many other high scoring players, he has not always been nor could he always be committed 100% to the defensive end like guys like Bowen or Tony Allen. That's just not realistic when you're a primary scorer. And even guys like Jordan and LeBron did the same thing. Guys like Pippen and Rodman helped take on that responsibility for Jordan for much of any given game. Same with Shane Battier and Haslem for LeBron. Pierce never completely locked down LeBron in those playoff meetings, but he did about as well as anyone else could, including guys like Bowen or Artest.

Pierce is very underrated as a defender. Was he as good as Bowen or Artest? No. But when he and his team needed him to be, he actually wasn't all that far off. Very, very good defender. Smart defender. Good combination of size, length, and strength for a wing player. And he knew how to utilize his teammates to his advantage defensively.

[Phillip]

Why are you so fucking sensitive when it comes to Lebron ? It was a serious discussion until you become defensive. I'm not trying to trash Lebron, i can do that some other time. Pierce did well against Lebron, let's not sugarcoat that and be objective at least.


That post wasn't to bring Lebron down, but to show Pierce can take a defensive task well, it was a rebuttal to that retarded take that pierce is an average defender. Smh.

Considering you spent an entire afternoon pulling up quotes from years ago to try to trash Lebron, it's pretty obvious that any chance you can get a shot in on him, you take it. Faggot.

[Proxy]

Hard to compare these players since I assume half of this board didn't grow up watching Drexler like they did Pierce. Clyde is a highlight reel and advanced stats to a lot of us.

Reading the exchange between ambchang, Phillip, and JamStone has me leaning Pierce.

[ambchang]

I don't understand this response. You were the one who brought up DRtg and DWS to begin with. Now you're trying to qualify it and discredit it as it applies to Pierce. Why did you mention it at all in the first place? Pierce put up very good defensive (advanced stats) seasons even before playing with KG and Rondo, including a season where he posted a 99 DRtg and a 5.6 DWS... again WITHOUT KG and Rondo.

Pierce has always been a very good defender. But as some have already mentioned and/or suggested, as many other high scoring players, he has not always been nor could he always be committed 100% to the defensive end like guys like Bowen or Tony Allen. That's just not realistic when you're a primary scorer. And even guys like Jordan and LeBron did the same thing. Guys like Pippen and Rodman helped take on that responsibility for Jordan for much of any given game. Same with Shane Battier and Haslem for LeBron. Pierce never completely locked down LeBron in those playoff meetings, but he did about as well as anyone else could, including guys like Bowen or Artest.

Pierce is very underrated as a defender. Was he as good as Bowen or Artest? No. But when he and his team needed him to be, he actually wasn't all that far off. Very, very good defender. Smart defender. Good combination of size, length, and strength for a wing player. And he knew how to utilize his teammates to his advantage defensively.

Know what? I dropped the ball on this one. I have always viewed the celtics defense to be Garnett and rondo but again stats have point us the right way. I have under estimated the defense of pierce and looked at it based on observation alone.

[RsxPiimp]

Considering you spent an entire afternoon pulling up quotes from years ago to try to trash Lebron, it's pretty obvious that any chance you can get a shot in on him, you take it. Faggot.

You must be really young or simply a dumbass not to realize when someone is trying to have a mature conversation with you. That tiny cerebral cortex of your brain asked for a real discussion yet you're the one who wants to subconsciously derail his own thread by allowing your emotion to take over proper reasoning. Relax :lol

[Phillip]

You mus:cryt be really young or simply a dumb:cryass not t:cryo realize when someone is trying to have a matur:crye conversation with you. That tiny cer:cryebral cortex of your brain :cryasked for a real :crydiscussion yet you're the one who w:cryants to subconsciously derail his:cry own thread by all:cryowing your emotion to:cry take over proper reaso:cryning. Relax :cry:cry:cry

[m>s]

pierce was a solid defender not "average" by any means by any statistic imaginable, and the better creator/number 1 option and clutch. guys who like flashy dunks and who also happen to be fans of blake griffin choose drexler.

[m>s]

Know what? I dropped the ball on this one. I have always viewed the celtics defense to be Garnett and rondo but again stats have point us the right way. I have under estimated the defense of pierce and looked at it based on observation alone.

i was going to rip you and then i saw this, props for being one of like <1% of this board who can man up

[FkLA]

KG>Dirk tbh

[StrengthAndHonor]

You must be really young or simply a dumbass not to realize when someone is trying to have a mature conversation with you. That tiny cerebral cortex of your brain asked for a real discussion yet you're the one who wants to subconsciously derail his own thread by allowing your emotion to take over proper reasoning. Relax :lol



I agree. I try to steer away from people who can't hold a conversation in this forum. There's just so many immature posters in this board. Sad because they overwhelm a few great basketball minds in this board.

[StrengthAndHonor]

pierce was a solid defender not "average" by any means by any statistic imaginable, and the better creator/number 1 option and clutch. guys who like flashy dunks and who also happen to be fans of blake griffin choose drexler.


Yeah, Pierce is solid. One of the most underrated player of his era.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pierce isn't underrated at all, tbh..he has received a ton of hype since Boston won the title, which has inflated his pre-Big 3 career, leading to most people ignoring that he wasn't any better than Carter or McGrady at the time..

I'm not hating on Pierce, I'd take him in this comparison and he deserves his hype, but he's far from underrated IMO..

[tlongII]

Clyde. Obviously.

[baseline bum]

Clyde. Obviously.

QaIVUgP-cVk

[Clipper Nation]

Why are you so fucking sensitive when it comes to Lebron ?
:lol Speaking of sensitivity about LeBron:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223356
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223353
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223349
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223348
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223347
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223345
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223342
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223341
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223303

[Leetonidas]

:lol Speaking of sensitivity about LeBron:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223356
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223353
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223349
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223348
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223347
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223345
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223342
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223341
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223303
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gHfViVHpdk/UBnh-LJQ5sI/AAAAAAAAADA/i3cIwI20dEM/s1600/OhSnapBlackKid7478154.gif

[Clipper Nation]

Wrong thread

[lefty]

who cares


They both shit on Kobe

[Killakobe81]

Know what? I dropped the ball on this one. I have always viewed the celtics defense to be Garnett and rondo but again stats have point us the right way. I have under estimated the defense of pierce and looked at it based on observation alone.

Proud of you admitting you were wrong about Pierce ...but shocked that a man who appears as observant as you appear could not see that without stats. You have Pierce one of the best sf of his era playing on a marquee franchise (plenty of chances to watch) and it takes Jam shitting on your own stats to realize that Pierce was a good defender?!
Now I get why you cling to stats you can't see obvious things that you should not need drating or win shares to validate. You need them. This is not a bash I just understand your perspective a lot better. Cling to those numbers, Amb and you will always be one of my favorite posters ... I get you.

[TDMVPDPOY]

was there even a season in pp career he was in mvp talk? none i believe?

[LkrFan]

Wheelchair was better.

[Robz4000]

Pierce tbh. Not only was he a bit better in his prime, even as a tosb his bbIQ keeps him more than relevant.

[ambchang]

Proud of you admitting you were wrong about Pierce ...but shocked that a man who appears as observant as you appear could not see that without stats. You have Pierce one of the best sf of his era playing on a marquee franchise (plenty of chances to watch) and it takes Jam shitting on your own stats to realize that Pierce was a good defender?!
Now I get why you cling to stats you can't see obvious things that you should not need drating or win shares to validate. You need them. This is not a bash I just understand your perspective a lot better. Cling to those numbers, Amb and you will always be one of my favorite posters ... I get you.

LOL, good one KK81, so you are now finally admitting that stats tell the story? Pierce shutting down Kobe in the finals, to me, was more about how inefficient an offensive player Kobe is rather than how good a defensive player Pierce was.

And I always see Pierce as an average defender who excels on the offensive end. Part of it was legacy of those Walker days when I never saw the Celtics as much of a defensive juggernaut, and part of it was me attributing more of the championship Celtics D to Garnett and Rondo.

[Rogue]

I think if Glide was trapped in a body with the same sorry level of athleticism as current Pierce's he would be no more than a role player on a contender or the leader of a scrub team imho. Pierce can always create chances for himself even with limited athleticism which's impressive. Dude has the best fundamentals of all outfield players in today's NBA imho, a SF/SG version of Tim Duncan

[Killakobe81]

LOL, good one KK81, so you are now finally admitting that stats tell the story? Pierce shutting down Kobe in the finals, to me, was more about how inefficient an offensive player Kobe is rather than how good a defensive player Pierce was.

And I always see Pierce as an average defender who excels on the offensive end. Part of it was legacy of those Walker days when I never saw the Celtics as much of a defensive juggernaut, and part of it was me attributing more of the championship Celtics D to Garnett and Rondo.

This wasn't about Kobe and I have no malice or ill will ...I finally understand you, Amb and its a beautiful thing.

[ambchang]

This wasn't about Kobe and I have no malice or ill will ...I finally understand you, Amb and its a beautiful thing.

Quite a stretch on the conclusion. But it's no surprise given kobestans have a tendency to come up with wrong conclusions based on stats.

[Killakobe81]

Quite a stretch on the conclusion. But it's no surprise given kobestans have a tendency to come up with wrong conclusions based on stats.

No beef, Amb. Just came to an understanding. Funny thing is you the one who misunderstood the stats, not me. That was the point. Reality is stats are often used to validate what bias (we are all biased) we already have. I give you credit for. Admitting you were wrong, but it was after Jam pointed out the mistakes in your application of them. Jam used them the way you should. I'm pretty sure he knew pierce was a good defender, did his research to back up what he saw via observation. My initial concern is valid. I respect how well you write and outside my friendly battles with DPG I enjoy our convos more than any others on here. But after your initial admission you sound like a politician. You throw out a Kobe dig call me a Stan when some of the shittiest posters on here could see what you couldn't and bodied you like Kendrick Lamar or Eminem some random local rapper in a Freestyle Friday in a cypher. You were wrong was a big man to admit no need to deflect you one of the best on here just over reliant on stats.

[ambchang]

No beef, Amb. Just came to an understanding. Funny thing is you the one who misunderstood the stats, not me. That was the point. Reality is stats are often used to validate what bias (we are all biased) we already have. I give you credit for. Admitting you were wrong, but it was after Jam pointed out the mistakes in your application of them. Jam used them the way you should. I'm pretty sure he knew pierce was a good defender, did his research to back up what he saw via observation. My initial concern is valid. I respect how well you write and outside my friendly battles with DPG I enjoy our convos more than any others on here. But after your initial admission you sound like a politician. You throw out a Kobe dig call me a Stan when some of the shittiest posters on here could see what you couldn't and bodied you like Kendrick Lamar or Eminem some random local rapper in a Freestyle Friday in a cypher. You were wrong was a big man to admit no need to deflect you one of the best on here just over reliant on stats.

Stats is an important part off the game and I have used it as such they out. Unsure as to why it is a finding all of a sudden.
And yes, you have been ignoring stats through out because it doesn't jive with your Kobe>Duncan agenda. We would have reached an agreement a long time ago if either of these were untrue.

[Killakobe81]

Don't ignore stats use them if needed to validate. Most of the time its unnecessary because again very few on here will hear a stat and then change their mind. You did and aagain I give you props for it ...I'm just questioning your observation skills ...which again now helps me understand why you cling to stats.
And tbh justfuckingwithcha ...it was only 1 mistake even if a obvious one. My only issue with you for someone so beholden to stats your personal biases show to easily ...then you deny it. If you were honest like mid or Harlem it would be different.