ESPN: Ranking Kobe.

[ambchang]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-131016-kobe/kobe-bryant-#nbarank-fair


Arnovitz: Isn't it hazardous to tackle this question in 65 words? Taking inventory of every player in history who can be generally classified as dominant and wildly efficient, I count about 10 players who can be comfortably ranked ahead of Kobe. If longevity weighs heavily in the criteria, then Kobe should quickly follow. If you prefer a metric like win shares per 48, he's farther down the list.

Elhassan: It's tough to compare players who play different positions (bigs versus guards), and even tougher from different eras. It would be hard for me to rank Kobe above (in no order) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Jordan, Bill Russell, Duncan or Shaq, and when it's all said and done, LeBron will also leapfrog him. I'm comfortable calling Kobe "top 10 of all time" and leaving it at that.

McMenamin: As the second-best shooting guard to ever play, behind only Jordan. That's an incredible distinction and one that should stand for a long, long time. As for his all-time ranking overall, comparing him against big men too? No matter how Kobe finishes out his career, it is difficult to imagine him ever being considered straight out "better" than Jordan, Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, Duncan and James. So I guess I'm saying he's No. 9 all time.

Shelburne: Top 10. I'm not one of those who have my top 10 committed to memory, but Kobe is easily a part of it. The man has five NBA titles, has a trajectory that has him on course to be one of the top two or three scorers in NBA history and is the closest thing we may ever get to Jordan again. I always find it hard to compare players from Bryant's era to those of the past, especially when I never saw those folks play in person, but Kobe is easily up on that first tier of guys on basketball's Mount Rushmore.

Stein: Firmly in the top 10 all time. Not quite in the top five all time. Co-player of his generation with Duncan.

I'd say not unreasonable, given that most people who stated it had Duncan over Kobe, or tied with him.

But I would say the people who are obviously > Kobe, in no particular order:
Jordan
Magic
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Big O
Hakeem
Lebron
Moses

Active player who have a chance to surpass Kobe:
Durant

Players who are on the same plane as Kobe, but is generally considered not because they didn't coat tail as aggressively and didn't give themselves nicknames:
Dirk
Garnett
Dr. J
West

[AchillesHeel]

You had to make a separate thread for this?

I agree with your opinion, but I don't think Kirby deserves another thread on the same topic, tbh.

There are 10 topics on Kirby on the 1st page alone, damn.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO OBSESSED WITH KIRBY?

[RsxPiimp]

Obsessed :lol

[ambchang]

There's another thread about ESPN ranking Kobe all time? I must have missed it. I apologize.

[Clipper Nation]

You had to make a separate thread for this?

I agree with your opinion, but I don't think Kirby deserves another thread on the same topic, tbh.

There are 10 topics on Kirby on the 1st page alone, damn.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO OBSESSED WITH KIRBY?
It's backlash against the dumbass Kirby slurpers who singlehandedly bring down the quality of basketball discussion, tbh....

[Medvedenko]

Look, I don't usually post on this board, as the quality is pedestrian and trite at best. However, Kobe is undoubtedly in the Top 10 of all time. There's stats, cultural significance, peer kudos and overall significance to the game of ball. Coupled with his longevity it's very easy to put him up there already. The same reason we don't care about MJ's Washington days or the fact that he quit on his team and fans for 2 years. Or Bird's or Magic's crappy later seasons etc. No other player has had the scrutiny in the internet age and still managed to overcome them. I grew up watching ball in the 80's and 90's and definitely appreciate what players before have accomplished. Just watch the games I say and you'll see very clearly rather than parroting ESPN or other news outlets.

[ambchang]

Look, I don't usually post on this board, as the quality is pedestrian and trite at best. However, Kobe is undoubtedly in the Top 10 of all time. There's stats, cultural significance, peer kudos and overall significance to the game of ball. Coupled with his longevity it's very easy to put him up there already. The same reason we don't care about MJ's Washington days or the fact that he quit on his team and fans for 2 years. Or Bird's or Magic's crappy later seasons etc. No other player has had the scrutiny in the internet age and still managed to overcome them. I grew up watching ball in the 80's and 90's and definitely appreciate what players before have accomplished. Just watch the games I say and you'll see very clearly rather than parroting ESPN or other news outlets.

So which 3 in my list of top 12 will you take out?

Jordan
Magic
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Big O
Hakeem
Lebron
Moses

And stats actually show Kobe to most definitely NOT being in the top ten of all time. Cultural significance is moot as the team has more influence than an individual, peer kudos is again, useless as there is a strong factor of bias, and overall significance to the game of basketball favours old-timers quite a bit. In fact, Kobe brought NOTHING to the overall significance to the game of basketball, all he did was copy Jordan's everything.

Finally, Lebron had arguably more scrutiny than Kobe and overcame them. In fact, by limiting your scope to scrutiny and internet age, you pretty much is only including players from large markets over the last decade or so.

[Medvedenko]

So which 3 in my list of top 12 will you take out?

Jordan
Magic
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Big O
Hakeem
Lebron
Moses

And stats actually show Kobe to most definitely NOT being in the top ten of all time. Cultural significance is moot as the team has more influence than an individual, peer kudos is again, useless as there is a strong factor of bias, and overall significance to the game of basketball favours old-timers quite a bit. In fact, Kobe brought NOTHING to the overall significance to the game of basketball, all he did was copy Jordan's everything.

Finally, Lebron had arguably more scrutiny than Kobe and overcame them. In fact, by limiting your scope to scrutiny and internet age, you pretty much is only including players from large markets over the last decade or so.

The Big O, Moses, Hakeem and Lebron. That's 3. Of course I'm talking about big market players given their pressure to perform is heightened. Stats is one part of the puzzle and while I appreciate your argument we are talking about a player that's still playing. Kobe's accomplishments and legend will only grow and not diminish as he gets older and time takes the place of everyday analysis. You being a Spur fan makes it dubious and difficult to assess Kobe as he's pretty much limited your team from further infamy during his prime years. Just look at this board as a cross-analysis and tell me who's been more scrutinized, discussed and picked apart other than Kobe. I've been a part of the Kori and Timvp show for going on 10 years now. It's a Kobe world my friend.

[ambchang]

The Big O, Moses, Hakeem and Lebron. That's 3. Of course I'm talking about big market players given their pressure to perform is heightened. Stats is one part of the puzzle and while I appreciate your argument we are talking about a player that's still playing. Kobe's accomplishments and legend will only grow and not diminish as he gets older and time takes the place of everyday analysis. You being a Spur fan makes it dubious and difficult to assess Kobe as he's pretty much limited your team from further infamy during his prime years. Just look at this board as a cross-analysis and tell me who's been more scrutinized, discussed and picked apart other than Kobe. I've been a part of the Kori and Timvp show for going on 10 years now. It's a Kobe world my friend.

Lebron has unequivocally surpassed Kobe with his first championship. From every single statistical angle you look at it, Lebron is clearly better than Kobe. He has even tied Kobe in team accomplishments.

As for Big O, the guy was dominating in his days, averaging a triple double in his first few years, something that has never even been remotely done.

Moses was shoulder to shoulder with KAJ, which many people considered to be the best of all time.

Hakeem, again, was better than Kobe in every single dimension.

And Kobe's accomplishments and legend has ALREADY shrunk due to the 12-13 season.

Being a Spurs fan, I appreciated the players that they had to face. I had no qualms with giving Shaq his kudos and Shaq was the primary reason the Spurs didn't win more titles (the Spurs after 06 didn't really face off too much against the Lakers), so it just shot your theory to hell. Kobe is getting all this scrutiny because a legion of uneducated fan-bois with little objectivity chimes in to overrate Kobe, resorting to distorting history (Kobe and Shaq shared equal billing in 01 and 02 is an example, Kobe is clutch is another example).

[Medvedenko]

Lebron has unequivocally surpassed Kobe with his first championship. From every single statistical angle you look at it, Lebron is clearly better than Kobe. He has even tied Kobe in team accomplishments.

As for Big O, the guy was dominating in his days, averaging a triple double in his first few years, something that has never even been remotely done.

Moses was shoulder to shoulder with KAJ, which many people considered to be the best of all time.

Hakeem, again, was better than Kobe in every single dimension.

And Kobe's accomplishments and legend has ALREADY shrunk due to the 12-13 season.

Being a Spurs fan, I appreciated the players that they had to face. I had no qualms with giving Shaq his kudos and Shaq was the primary reason the Spurs didn't win more titles (the Spurs after 06 didn't really face off too much against the Lakers), so it just shot your theory to hell. Kobe is getting all this scrutiny because a legion of uneducated fan-bois with little objectivity chimes in to overrate Kobe, resorting to distorting history (Kobe and Shaq shared equal billing in 01 and 02 is an example, Kobe is clutch is another example).

Look brother I appreciate your analysis and insight. You basically picked the best parts of said players in comparison. Each player has had dark days and crap years and times when they were "mortal". My favourite player is Pistol Pete and I believe on talent alone he should be in the top 10. I'm a minority on that opinion obviously. Our opinions are just that, opinions and makes for good discussion.

[RsxPiimp]

How can one season shrink a players legacy who has put a decade plus of impeccable work? :lol I want to take it seriously given your effort but I just can't.

[ambchang]

Look brother I appreciate your analysis and insight. You basically picked the best parts of said players in comparison. Each player has had dark days and crap years and times when they were "mortal". My favourite player is Pistol Pete and I believe on talent alone he should be in the top 10. I'm a minority on that opinion obviously. Our opinions are just that, opinions and makes for good discussion.

I would put them on even plain, and Kobe's worst years were worst than any of the other players worst. The only arguable one would be Hakeem, and even that is highly debatable. Moses Malone, I always felt, was one of the most underrated players of all time because:
a) He can't speak well (really, the guy can't speak)
b) Never played for a large media hub like NY or LA.
c) Never had any great teammates, other than those 6ers team. Guess what, he rung that year, in dominating fashion

Moses is another case of people looking at team accomplishments instead of individual accomplishments.

As for Pistol Pete, his peak was too short-lived, and he was extremely inefficient as a player. His moves were often times breath-taking, but ultimately unnecessary in a LOT of cases.

BTW, based on talent alone, Walton should be top 10 all time as well. Too bad the guys got Blazer feet.


How can one season shrink a players legacy who has put a decade plus of impeccable work? :lol I want to take it seriously given your effort but I just can't.

You mean you haven't looked last year? Kobe's legacy was significantly impacted last year, not because last year was horrible, but last year exposed Kobe for what people had suspected him to be all along. People always gave him the benefit of the doubt, but last year answered a lot of questions for a casual observer, and those answers were good for Kobe fanbois.

[RsxPiimp]

You can say it has impacted his career, I'd agree but using the word shrink to describe it is a bit over board.

Like Medvedenko said, all players have dark years throughout their respective careers, but in the grand scheme of things they are forgotten and in most cases has little to no impact.

[ambchang]

You can say it has impacted his career, I'd agree but using the word shrink to describe it is a bit over board.

Like Medvedenko said, all players have dark years throughout their respective careers, but in the grand scheme of things they are forgotten and in most cases has little to no impact.

He went from better than Duncan and Shaq (which was wrong to begin with) to worse than Duncan and Shaq over the course of a year. I can see Duncan's legend growing because of his rebound year, but Shaq was retired. The only way for this to happen was for Kobe's legend to have shrunk.

People don't forget dark prime years. Hakeem still is evaluated on the late 80's early 90's Rockets teams, Magic for his Tragic years, Lebron his 11 year, and Duncan's 8 (though you can argue he was no longer in his prime). Magic's come years, Jordan's Washington years, and Bird's injured back years are largely dismissed because they were clearly out of their prime years by then. It's like evaluating Kobe based on his first few years in a league, people just don't do that.

[Medvedenko]

He went from better than Duncan and Shaq (which was wrong to begin with) to worse than Duncan and Shaq over the course of a year. I can see Duncan's legend growing because of his rebound year, but Shaq was retired. The only way for this to happen was for Kobe's legend to have shrunk.

People don't forget dark prime years. Hakeem still is evaluated on the late 80's early 90's Rockets teams, Magic for his Tragic years, Lebron his 11 year, and Duncan's 8 (though you can argue he was no longer in his prime). Magic's come years, Jordan's Washington years, and Bird's injured back years are largely dismissed because they were clearly out of their prime years by then. It's like evaluating Kobe based on his first few years in a league, people just don't do that.

I will disagree that last year hurt his legacy. I feel it given his age and what he did for the team prior to him being injured was pretty amazing. Also, the amount of injuries the Lakers had and subsequent coaching changes had little to do with Kobe the player on the court. I watched 90% of the games last year and Kobe always played hard, held his teammates accountable and did what was needed to win. I find it troubling to see the "casual" observer think it was a down year given his team's inablility to get over the injury/chemistry issues. What were the differences in prior years with less talent when they actually went to 3 finals in a row?

[StrengthAndHonor]

I will disagree that last year hurt his legacy. I feel it given his age and what he did for the team prior to him being injured was pretty amazing. Also, the amount of injuries the Lakers had and subsequent coaching changes had little to do with Kobe the player on the court. I watched 90% of the games last year and Kobe always played hard, held his teammates accountable and did what was needed to win. I find it troubling to see the "casual" observer think it was a down year given his team's inablility to get over the injury/chemistry issues. What were the differences in prior years with less talent when they actually went to 3 finals in a row?

I agree with this from am objective standpoint. I knew the expectations were sky high for them but they were plagued with injuries, left and right with 3 coaching changes in one season. The sweep actually proves how bad they missed Kobe's scoring ability in that series.

[Medvedenko]

I agree with this from am objective standpoint. I knew the expectations were sky high for them but they were plagued with injuries, left and right with 3 coaching changes in one season. The sweep actually proves how bad they missed Kobe's scoring ability in that series.

Even if Kobe was healthy they would have lost the spurs. He only masked the disease that was the Lakers last year.

[DMC]

Kobe's career will be remembered by him having to have an all star big to have any post seasons success, and even then it's not guaranteed. His off years won't be remembered much, just like Mike's. The Shaq years will be 1st, where Kobe was 2nd. Then there will be the Pau years were Kobe was gifted a Finals MVP just from popularity alone.

Think about Mike Tyson. What do you remember? I remember the rape and when Buster Douglas knocked him out. With Kobe, people will remember the rape trial, him threatening to quit and how he was like Morgan Freeman, always a decent supporting actor if he had a big star but never worth a fuck in the lead role.

Duncan is top 10 on anyone's list. Kobe might not be. Consistency is why, and the fact that Duncan made the Spurs. Kobe just rode the Lakers.

[Baseline]

If Bryant isn't a Laker, he's World B. Free 2.0. Guy never shot even 47% in a single season in his entire career. Histrionically overrated.

[DMC]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0405/grant_g_johnwall_cr_576.jpg

Is it just me or does this clown look like he's sucking an invisible cock?

[StrengthAndHonor]

Even if Kobe was healthy they would have lost the spurs. He only masked the disease that was the Lakers last year.

I agree, but with Kobe I feel like the series would've been a lot more competitive. That series was so flat and lop sided, it was just akward. The Lakers were never in the game all series long.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Think about Mike Tyson. What do you remember? I remember the rape and when Buster Douglas knocked him out. With Kobe, people will remember the rape trial, him threatening to quit and how he was like Morgan Freeman, always a decent supporting actor if he had a big star but never worth a fuck in the lead role.

.


Tyson's career is an awful comparison. He's ridiculed nowadays not only because of his boxing career but rather how he handled his life off the ring. Even after his prison term has ended, the world was ready to give Tyson a chance to redeem himself. He failed over and over again and making an embarassing spectacle of his mental and emotional breakdown.


Kobe's successful and knows how to carry himself off the court evident by his popularity and steady flow of endorsements. He's the exact opposite of Tyson because he wised up, matured and carried himself well after his trials and tribulations.

[DMC]

Tyson's career is an awful comparison. He's ridiculed nowadays not only because of his boxing career but rather how he handled his life off the ring. Even after his prison term has ended, the world was ready to give Tyson a chance to redeem himself. He failed over and over again and making an embarassing spectacle of his mental and emotional breakdown.


Kobe's successful and knows how to carry himself off the court evident by his popularity and steady flow of endorsements. He's the exact opposite of Tyson because he wised up, matured and carried himself well after his trials and tribulations.

It's how he will be remembered that I am referring to. I didn't say he was like Tyson. People think of MJ as if he entered the league, won 6 rings and retired. He lost a lot before he won a lot. The big thing is that MJ was the alpha. Kobe's never been the obvious alpha on the team. He's been the ball hog, and been a verbally insistent proponent of "get me the ball" type offense, but he's an incessant whiner. Offensively talented, but maladjusted. He was never the player for LA that MJ was for Chicago, not one single season.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe is the greatest media manipulator of all-time, tbh, not even Dad Killer is on the same level..he plays the media better than anybody I've ever seen..quotes that demonstrate his "killer instinct", subtly using excuses for injuries, etc..it has been proven many times that sociopaths are charming and cunning, tbh..

If Kobe played in the 80s or 90s, he would be remembered even more fondly, tbh, he would have benefited greatly from the fans and media's lack of access to data and tools..the Olajuwon effect x2, where aesthetics are remembered more vividly than actual data..unfortunately for him, his legacy will be continue to be deflated by the prominence of advanced numbers and available scouting tools(Synergy, etc), tbh..

Kobe is easily a top 10-player of all-time, though..he's certainly overrated, but still easily in the top 10..

[StrengthAndHonor]

I don't know if you can objectively and believe Kobe wasn't a leader or "Alpha" on any of the title teams. This is beating the dead horse, but Gasol in his lifetime has never showed he was or can be the Alpha leader of any NBA team.

[HI-FI]

Kobe is the greatest media manipulator of all-time, tbh, not even Dad Killer is on the same level..he plays the media better than anybody I've ever seen..quotes that demonstrate his "killer instinct", subtly using excuses for injuries, etc..it has been proven many times that sociopaths are charming and cunning, tbh..

If Kobe played in the 80s or 90s, he would be remembered even more fondly, tbh, he would have benefited greatly from the fans and media's lack of access to data and tools..the Olajuwon effect x2, where aesthetics are remembered more vividly than actual data..unfortunately for him, his legacy will be continue to be deflated by the prominence of advanced numbers and available scouting tools(Synergy, etc), tbh..

Kobe is easily a top 10-player of all-time, though..he's certainly overrated, but still easily in the top 10..
if he's top 10 it's mainly because what you said above, his sociopathic ability to keep his name in the press at all times. No doubt he is a sociopath, jerking off after raping a chick is usually behavior you find in inmates.

MJ was a total asshole but wasn't a sociopath imo, everything didn't have to be about him nor do I think he gave a shit about how he is perceived or create a nickname for himself.

In terms of impact to winning I can't put him in the top 10, in fact he's cost his team titles with his chucking. But if we're talking about top 10 of controversial/media icons of basketball, then he belongs on that list.

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree with Dad Killer not being a sociopath, tbh..

Both Jordan and Kobe are pieces of shit, 2 of the most despicable athletes to ever play a sport, tbh..the only difference is that Jordan is likeable in every day life and understands how to interact/grew up with friends, whereas all reports describe Kobe as a loner that never learned how to make friends, tbh..great at manipulating/charming media and anything involving basketball, but never developed social skills with people in his actual life:lol..

[DMC]

I don't know if you can objectively and believe Kobe wasn't a leader or "Alpha" on any of the title teams. This is beating the dead horse, but Gasol in his lifetime has never showed he was or can be the Alpha leader of any NBA team.

Getting more shots up doesn't make you the Alpha. When was Kobe in charge of the team on the floor instead of being just a veteran voice? 6 for 24 isn't an alpha number. Just because Pau wasn't vocal doesn't mean he wasn't the catalyst for getting the Lakers to 3 consecutive finals.

[UZER]

I agree with Kobe being a media manipulator.

Dude knows what and how to say everything in every situation, whether deflecting or taking credit. He knows where the cameras are at all times, and when they are on him (the under bite anyone?)

He knows when its time to call Stephen A after struggling a few games for that one on one interview to let everyone know he's been playing hurt but would never use that as an excuse, and how exhausted he is carrying the load by answering every question slow and under his breath.

And because he plays in LA, the media eats it up.

[Medvedenko]

Getting more shots up doesn't make you the Alpha. When was Kobe in charge of the team on the floor instead of being just a veteran voice? 6 for 24 isn't an alpha number. Just because Pau wasn't vocal doesn't mean he wasn't the catalyst for getting the Lakers to 3 consecutive finals.

I haven't said this in a while....stop posting, it hurts my brain. While gasoline was great, no laker fan on the planet, you know the guys who bleed purple and gold would put pau ahead of Kobe. That's why I barely talk about the spurs....I don't watch their games.

[RsxPiimp]

I haven't said this in a while....stop posting, it hurts my brain. While gasoline was great, no laker fan on the planet, you know the guys who bleed purple and gold would put pau ahead of Kobe. That's why I barely talk about the spurs....I don't watch their games.

:lmao i was gonna post this. i mean who in their right mind would think gasol is an alhpa, for cryin out loud, this was the player kobe and jackson pushed to come out out of his shell over and over and over again, even gasol admitted he's a beta :lol

[StrengthAndHonor]

Getting more shots up doesn't make you the Alpha. When was Kobe in charge of the team on the floor instead of being just a veteran voice? 6 for 24 isn't an alpha number..
So, your idea of being an Alpha would be someone shooting worse on the floor? You do understand that Kobe's TS% was higher than Gasol in game 7, right? Unless you believe, making FT's at a crucial time is not part of the game, where Gasol folded under pressure only making 53% of his attempts.

[DMC]

So, your idea of being an Alpha would be someone shooting worse on the floor? You do understand that Kobe's TS% was higher than Gasol in game 7, right? Unless you believe, making FT's at a crucial time is not part of the game, where Gasol folded under pressure only making 53% of his attempts.


:lmao i was gonna post this. i mean who in their right mind would think gasol is an alhpa, for cryin out loud, this was the player kobe and jackson pushed to come out out of his shell over and over and over again, even gasol admitted he's a beta :lol

Pau Gasol averaged more PPG than Paul Pierce (who led Boston in PPG).

Pau played more minutes per game than Kobe.

Pau averaged about 12 rebounds a game

Pau had fewer turnovers (Kobe led with almost 4 turnovers a game)

Pau averaged 3.7 assists per game in the Finals. Kobe was only .2 higher.

Pau shot 48%. Kobe was at 40.05, just .05 better than Nate Robinson.

Pau had 90 FGA. Kobe had 163.

After Kobe, you have Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Allen, all within 10 shot attempts from each other (88 - 98FGA). That's a balanced scoring attack

The Lakers didn't win due to Kobe taking almost 2x as many shots as the next highest FGA on the team. They won because the next highest FGA shot 48%, averaged almost 3 blocks a game and pulled down 12 rebounds. Leading in blocks and rebounds for the series for both teams, totally decimating KG's output.

You don't beat a well balanced offense and a top 5 defense by volume shooting. You beat it by having an agile, fast and savvy big like Pau Gasol under the rim making smart plays and giving the team second looks after Kobe clanks another one.

You slurpers can parade Kobe's personality around like a checkered flag all day, it doesn't change the fact that Pau took a huge shit on him in effectiveness.

MVPau was the alpha and those numbers prove it.

[ambchang]

So, your idea of being an Alpha would be someone shooting worse on the floor? You do understand that Kobe's TS% was higher than Gasol in game 7, right? Unless you believe, making FT's at a crucial time is not part of the game, where Gasol folded under pressure only making 53% of his attempts.

How many times do I have to explain TS%. It is a percentage favouring perimeter players. It's like saying Marbury is a better passer than Vlade Divac because Marbury had more assists.

[ambchang]

I would say Pau's talents won the 09 and 10 championship, and the Lakers strength was that dominating frontline.

On the other hand, I'd say the real leader of that team was Derek Fisher and KFC.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wade>>kobe u know it fellas....

[Leetonidas]

Jordan
Russel
Bird
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
LeBron


Top 11 as of now. LeBron will probably knock Kobe out at some point most likely. You could argue Kobe ahead of Hakeem though. The Rapist is most likely a top 10 player in history, but definitely on the lower end.

[Medvedenko]

Pau Gasol averaged more PPG than Paul Pierce (who led Boston in PPG).

Pau played more minutes per game than Kobe.

Pau averaged about 12 rebounds a game

Pau had fewer turnovers (Kobe led with almost 4 turnovers a game)

Pau averaged 3.7 assists per game in the Finals. Kobe was only .2 higher.

Pau shot 48%. Kobe was at 40.05, just .05 better than Nate Robinson.

Pau had 90 FGA. Kobe had 163.

After Kobe, you have Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Allen, all within 10 shot attempts from each other (88 - 98FGA). That's a balanced scoring attack

The Lakers didn't win due to Kobe taking almost 2x as many shots as the next highest FGA on the team. They won because the next highest FGA shot 48%, averaged almost 3 blocks a game and pulled down 12 rebounds. Leading in blocks and rebounds for the series for both teams, totally decimating KG's output.

You don't beat a well balanced offense and a top 5 defense by volume shooting. You beat it by having an agile, fast and savvy big like Pau Gasol under the rim making smart plays and giving the team second looks after Kobe clanks another one.

You slurpers can parade Kobe's personality around like a checkered flag all day, it doesn't change the fact that Pau took a huge shit on him in effectiveness.

MVPau was the alpha and those numbers prove it.

And yet Pau wasn't voted MVP of the finals.....

[DMC]

And yet Pau wasn't voted MVP of the finals.....

June 19, 2010 | By: Zachariah Blott (http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/author/behindthebasket) http://www.behindthebasket.com/storage/post-images/Gasol-Bryant.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=127691520857 9

Congratulations to Los Angeles on winning consecutive titles, but we need to clear up a little matter called the Finals MVP Award. As much as Kobe Bryant seems like an obvious selection because he's the team's most lauded player and he averaged 28.6 points per, he clearly was not the Lakers' best player in the 2010 Finals. That player was Pau Gasol.


The most straight-forward way of looking at this debate is that the series was decided by defense and rebounding. It was a low-scoring, poorly shot affair all around, and the Lakers won the rebounding battle by a landslide in their four wins. Gasol was by far their most impressive rebounder in the series, leading everyone in both the amount he collected and his skill in doing so in the trenches, picking up the tough ones in traffic (not the long caroms that guards usually end up with). On top of that, his strong interior defense set the tone for the Lakers, who rode their defense to the championship; Bryant spent the series playing centerfield far off of Rajon Rondo, certainly not a stopper or defensive game-changer in any capacity.

Statistically, Gasol's input in his Lakers' title defense was significantly more important than that of Bryant. Obviously Kobe's 29 points per look better than Gasol's 19, but it was simply the result of shooting an insane amount of shots at a low percentage. Although the Lakers shot a pitiful 41% over their seven games with Boston, Bryant actually made things worse by shooting 40% (66-163). Not only that, but in a series full of close fourth-quarter battles, Bryant shot an abysmal 31% (11-36) in the games' final periods. Gasol connected on a team-high 48% from the field, hitting 43 of 90 attempts. His efficiency from the field was instrumental in stressing a tight Boston defense.

From a distribution/running-the-O standpoint, Gasol far trumped Kobe in the Finals. The big Spaniard lead the entire Laker squad with a phenomenal 26-13 (2.0) assist-turnover rate. He did a great job passing out of double teams, passing out of the low-post, high-post, perimeter, etc. The only player to accrue more assists on LA was the primary ball handler, Bryant, who handed out one more, 27. Unfortunately for the team, he also turned the ball over 27 times for a terrible 1.0 ratio. It could have been much worse if his teammates didn't hustle to retain possession on numerous Bryant passes that were tipped away by the Celtics into random spaces each game. Offensively, there is no question that Gasol was far more important to the overall success and effectiveness of the Lakers' attack.

Considering the winner of all seven games was also the team that lead each contest in rebounds, this part of their games cannot be overlooked. Gasol was the top rebounder by quite a substantial margin for the series, snagging 11.6 boards per, including an incredible 5.0 offensive each night. With the rest of the Lakers shooting such a low percentage from the field, Gasol's offensive rebounds and the subsequent second-chance points alone were regularly the difference between winning and losing. He surpassed his rebound average in four of the seven games, so there were no single-game totals that pushed his average so high.

Bryant chipped in with an impressive 8.0 rebounds per, including 1.7 offensive, but it should be pointed out he met or exceeded that average only twice. A few outliers skewed his average above a true indication of what he contributed in this category. Not only that, most of Gasol's boards were grabbed in the middle of hard-fought scrums in the paint, whereas Bryant's were usually of the long-bounce-right-to-him variety.

Defensively, Gasol's man-to-man defense is alright, but his ability to energetically block and redirect shots was unparalleled, blocking 18 for the series (2.6 per) and persuading multiple potential shots to not be taken. A big man's defensive presence is always more valuable than a wing's because they have to help clean up the mess opposing guards make when they drive into the paint. That being said, Bryant's defense wasn't responsible for much in the series. He guarded Rajon Rondo, who can't shoot, by hanging out in the lane; Bryant rarely had to hustle or be responsible for containing any tough plays. Rondo still ended up averaging 14 points and 8 assists for the series. Bryant did get credit for 15 steals over the seven games, 8 of which came in two home contests when any deflections caused by his teammates' hustle were given to him if LA's stats keepers determined he gained possession in the end. NBA stats keepers, who work for individual clubs, are allowed a lot of leeway in determining who to give credit for steals, which is why it's one of the most home-oriented statistics for star players.

Pau Gasol was clearly the most impressive player in the 2010 Finals and deserved to win the Bill Russell MVP Award. This is not a slight to Bryant, it's just that Gasol is that good. He is the only other player in the best-big-in-the-league discussion with Dwight Howard. Duncan's slowing speed has taken away a lot of his defense, and Chris Bosh is neither a defender, passer, winner, or much more than a pedestrian shooter inside. On the other hand, the best perimeter player in the league is an argument involving Chris Paul, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, maybe Jason Kidd, and Bryant.

Gasol is doing some special things right now that have brought the Lakers out of their three-year .500-ball funk and into a great stretch of Finals runs that includes two titles. It's time he got his due.