do the irrational Manu haters seriously think Manu won't turn the corner this season?

[dallasmaverickslose]

:lmao Unbelievable if true. Just because he had a bad playoffs doesn't mean he can't turn it around. I know. I know. You all have something personal against Manu and are just taking this opportunity to spill your irrational hate on him. It's going to be so incredibly hilarious when Manu makes you all look like a bunch of irrational fools this season. :lol

:lol Milking any opportunity they can get to hate on one of the greatest Spurs of all time. :lol Fake fans. :lol

[Skull-1]

Define "turn the corner".

As bad as he was I can only imagine it is easier to play better rather than worse, but this is Manu.....

[cd98]

I love Manu because he has been one of the greatest players to ever wear a Spurs uniform. He has played a key role in each championship except 1999, when he wasn't in the league. I still think he can be a good player that can contribute on this team. I don't think he is an all-star, nor that he will be an all-star ever again. He had some bad games in the playoffs, and especially in the finals. He is now a role player, not a star. He has great passing skills and court vision, even if he forces things at times and gets turnovers. His outside shooting has also been pretty bad, and he'll have to shoot well to have any kind of success driving the ball. But I still think he can be a shooter, and he is crafty enough to be an effective, if limited, scorer. I'm not a hater to say he's not what he once was, but I'm not so much of a blind lover to say he can be a superstar again. He can still be an effective NBA player that can help us win a title in a supporting role (like a Ray Allen- not a star anymore, but skills can make a difference in a playoff game). Can't everyone just be fine with that?

[look_at_g_shred]

I love Manu because he has been one of the greatest players to ever wear a Spurs uniform. He has played a key role in each championship except 1999, when he wasn't in the league. I still think he can be a good player that can contribute on this team. I don't think he is an all-star, nor that he will be an all-star ever again. He had some bad games in the playoffs, and especially in the finals. He is now a role player, not a star. He has great passing skills and court vision, even if he forces things at times and gets turnovers. His outside shooting has also been pretty bad, and he'll have to shoot well to have any kind of success driving the ball. But I still think he can be a shooter, and he is crafty enough to be an effective, if limited, scorer. I'm not a hater to say he's not what he once was, but I'm not so much of a blind lover to say he can be a superstar again. He can still be an effective NBA player that can help us win a title in a supporting role (like a Ray Allen- not a star anymore, but skills can make a difference in a playoff game). Can't everyone just be fine with that?
Exactly how i feel.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I love Manu because he has been one of the greatest players to ever wear a Spurs uniform. He has played a key role in each championship except 1999, when he wasn't in the league. I still think he can be a good player that can contribute on this team. I don't think he is an all-star, nor that he will be an all-star ever again. He had some bad games in the playoffs, and especially in the finals. He is now a role player, not a star. He has great passing skills and court vision, even if he forces things at times and gets turnovers. His outside shooting has also been pretty bad, and he'll have to shoot well to have any kind of success driving the ball. But I still think he can be a shooter, and he is crafty enough to be an effective, if limited, scorer. I'm not a hater to say he's not what he once was, but I'm not so much of a blind lover to say he can be a superstar again. He can still be an effective NBA player that can help us win a title in a supporting role (like a Ray Allen- not a star anymore, but skills can make a difference in a playoff game). Can't everyone just be fine with that?

pretty much my thoughts exactly. Watch out though, the Manu haters (aka 2013 bandwagon spurs fans) will be stopping by soon to criticize you for not hating Manu and talking shit about him.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Define "turn the corner".

As bad as he was I can only imagine it is easier to play better rather than worse, but this is Manu.....

Manu will be a solid role player this season and will every now and then come up with a big game. Still a very VERY valuable part of this team. And MUCH better overall than his 2013 finals self.

Thats my definition. He's getting old, but he is definitely not finished.

[spurs10]

Exactly how i feel. Manu has had a remarkable career and is now in his last two seasons most likely. I am proud that his contributions to this team were respected and he has returned. Please remember all the negative talk about Manu says nothing about him and speaks volumes about the people who speak disrespectfully about him. His accomplishments in basketball are off the chart. I hope I can be there when he is inducted into the Hall of Fame. If not, when they hang his number and name in the rafters.

[HI-FI]

honestly if he has a bad or good season I don't give a shit, I love what he's done but I don't worship the dude because he's exciting or speaks Spanish. all I care is he helps us win a title, or just don't do anything to blow a title. I think he can be productive but he needs to seriously know his limitations and adjust accordingly.

[ElNono]

He's going to be great at what he does... selling tickets, tbh

[r0drig0lac]

lol, I see what you did it

[look_at_g_shred]

Manu has had a remarkable career and is now in his last two seasons most likely. I am proud that his contributions to this team were respected and he has returned. Please remember all the negative talk about Manu says nothing about him and speaks volumes about the people who speak disrespectfully about him. His accomplishments in basketball are off the chart. I hope I can be there when he is inducted into the Hall of Fame. If not, when they hang his number and name in the rafters.

Amen bro!

[xmas1997]

Looks like I don't need to weigh in on this thread. You guys have this well under control, just like the poll shows.
Sometimes the truth hurts as the haters shrink back from reality and a stiff dosage of their own medicine.
Way to own them, guys.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I'm not an irrational Manu hater.

Manu has been one of my favorite all time Spurs. But seriously--dude's just gotten old (I mean, it happens) and his game hasn't adjusted accordingly. Manu lost us the NBA championship this past season, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

[TXstbobcat]

The Manu haters can't get over last season. Gotta move on and enjoy the last few years of the big 3 playing together.

[elmanutres]

I'm sorry but its pre season come on now. Im not saying manu will not turn the corner. Maybe last year was a fluke. But be rational.

[superbigtime]

low expectations

[Skull-1]

I'm not an irrational Manu hater.

Manu has been one of my favorite all time Spurs. But seriously--dude's just gotten old (I mean, it happens) and his game hasn't adjusted accordingly. Manu lost us the NBA championship this past season, there is no doubt in my mind about that.
Exactly. This is a completely true statement, yet some refuse to accept it, and instead trash people in their homer-filled, blind, irrational loyalty. It isn't a felony to call it like it is (as you did so well above).

[PlayNando]

He has looked pretty good this preseason, tbh. Hopefully, he can stay healthy. Everything stems from that, per par...

[Sean Cagney]

Turn the corner? That is for a rookie or second year guy, he is 36 man. What corner is he going to turn? He already turned the corner years ago and now is starting to get old.

Can he be a helper off the bench and contribute still? I hope so, but hope now is all we can ask for when it comes to this Manu at this age.

[spurs10]

Amen bro! :toast


Looks like I don't need to weigh in on this thread. You guys have this well under control, just like the poll shows.
Sometimes the truth hurts as the haters shrink back from reality and a stiff dosage of their own medicine.
Way to own them, guys. :toast


He's going to be great at what he does... selling tickets, tbh No doubt!

[tmtcsc]

Manu will go down in the books as one of the greatest Spurs ever. He was a huge part of the Spurs beating the Pistons in 2005/2006 and I will never forget that. While Tim was being his consistent, steady self, Manu introduced chaos and excitement to the team as well as a fierce desire to win. Here comes the "but"...But last year he took a huge shit on the team with his sub-par and wreckless play in the finals. Not only did he turn the ball over at the worst times and fashion, he lumped a bunch of clanked FT's in to the mix. He came up short in THE BIGGEST game of the series and let his teammates down big time.

At this point, if he just hits his free throws, manages his game without making careless turnovers and scores 8 to 10 points a game, I'll be thrilled. His $ 14 Million dollar contract was a big "Thank You" for his past accomplishments. Who would have thought that when you saw Manu checking in to a game that you would actually say "Oh crap, Manu's checking in..." ? It wasn't just his bad play, it was being a GREAT, dependable player for so long and then falling so hard, so fast on the biggest stage that made it awful to watch. It was beyond ugly. I don't know who that player was last year.

I sincerely hope that last year was a fluke and that he comes back hungrier and better than ever. I want him to be the difference in us winning a Championship in 2013/2014. That means giving a solid effort for 20-25 minutes a game off the bench.

[Skull-1]

Manu will go down in the books as one of the greatest Spurs ever. He was a huge part of the Spurs beating the Pistons in 2005/2006 and I will never forget that. While Tim was being his consistent, steady self, Manu introduced chaos and excitement to the team as well as a fierce desire to win. Here comes the "but"...But last year he took a huge shit on the team with his sub-par and wreckless play in the finals. Not only did he turn the ball over at the worst times and fashion, he lumped a bunch of clanked FT's in to the mix. He came up short in THE BIGGEST game of the series and let his teammates down big time.

At this point, if he just hits his free throws, manages his game without making careless turnovers and scores 8 to 10 points a game, I'll be thrilled. His $ 14 Million dollar contract was a big "Thank You" for his past accomplishments. Who would have thought that when you saw Manu checking in to a game that you would actually say "Oh crap, Manu's checking in..." ? It wasn't just his bad play, it was being a GREAT, dependable player for so long and then falling so hard, so fast on the biggest stage that made it awful to watch. It was beyond ugly. I don't know who that player was last year.

I sincerely hope that last year was a fluke and that he comes back hungrier and better than ever. I want him to be the difference in us winning a Championship in 2013/2014. That means giving a solid effort for 20-25 minutes a game off the bench.

[Skull-1]

Turn the corner? That is for a rookie or second year guy, he is 36 man. What corner is he going to turn? He already turned the corner years ago and now is starting to get old.

Can he be a helper off the bench and contribute still? I hope so, but hope now is all we can ask for when it comes to this Manu at this age.

basically he turned the previous corner but going the other way. Good take.

[xmas1997]

Looks like I don't need to weigh in on this thread. You guys have this well under control, just like the poll shows.
Sometimes the truth hurts as the haters shrink back from reality and a stiff dosage of their own medicine.
Way to own them, guys.

[Clipper Nation]

Nothing against Manu, but OP makes it sound like him turning it around at 36 years old is a guarantee....

[Leetonidas]

An old, injury prone 36 year old SG who has been in the NBA for a decade turning the corner? WTF? :lol

Danny Green is an example of a player who turned the corner. Old players who are injury prone and in the twilight of their careers don't turn the corner and suddenly become 25 again


(except Tim Duncan, that dude is some kind of sorcerer)

[Skull-1]

An old, injury prone 36 year old SG who has been in the NBA for a decade turning the corner? WTF? :lol

Danny Green is an example of a player who turned the corner. Old players who are injury prone and in the twilight of their careers don't turn the corner and suddenly become 25 again


(except Tim Duncan, that dude is some kind of sorcerer)Tim never relied on wild athleticism. I mean, he is athletic, but not the kind that fades with time like a slasher Manu type. That being said, his turnaround has been absolutely astounding. Manu simply cannot even come close to that. Dude is done.

[xmas1997]

Judged, sentenced, and hung.
I think the jury is still out on Manu.
At the very least he deserves the benefit of the doubt after everything he has given to this organization and fandom.

The obsessive HATE for him is unreasonable and ungrateful and ignorant at best!

[superbigtime]

The jury is out??? haha. All the needed evidence for logical people to draw conclusions was provided during last year's entire season not to mention the playoffs and finals. I don't like Manu hate either, but it is clear beyond all doubt he cost the Spurs their 5th, and I don't say that in a hateful or spiteful way. I'm not angry at him (I was though). I'm still pissed at Pop for not making better decisions in the most important games. Was it bad luck? You bet. Do people create their own luck? Yes.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

An old, injury prone 36 year old SG who has been in the NBA for a decade turning the corner? WTF? :lol



(except Tim Duncan, that dude is some kind of sorcerer)

Answered your own statement.

[Skull-1]

The jury is out??? haha. All the needed evidence for logical people to draw conclusions was provided during last year's entire season not to mention the playoffs and finals. I don't like Manu hate either, but it is clear beyond all doubt he cost the Spurs their 5th, and I don't say that in a hateful or spiteful way. I'm not angry at him (I was though). I'm still pissed at Pop for not making better decisions in the most important games. Was it bad luck? You bet. Do people create their own luck? Yes. +1 (Except I will remain angry until I see a change in him for the better--dial it back, make better decisions, accept responsibility....SOMETHING! "I played so-so" and "I don't think revenge" are NOT what I want to hear from him.)

[Bruno]

What is irrational is to think Manu will be better this season than the last one.

[superbigtime]

+1 (Except I will remain angry until I see a change in him for the better--dial it back, make better decisions, accept responsibility....SOMETHING! "I played so-so" and "I don't think revenge" are NOT what I want to hear from him.)

I don't blame him for not owning up to his awful Finals play and all the errors, missed free throws, etc. It's humiliating enough for him to know that the global basketball community KNOWS how bad he truly was. If he wants to deny it, it's ok, he's only human. I just want the helter skelter spazz mode play to get under control and for him to shoot a better FT% than Tim Duncan.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

What is irrational is to think Manu will be better this season than the last one.

I don't see how that is irrational, especially considering it was done with Duncan. Even if you want to pass the claim that "Duncan is different, he is Tim Duncan" - let me just state that that is a baseless claim.

Many people have gotten better with age. Throw into the account of his preseason performances, electing not to play Euro-ball, and having the offseason to rest his hamstrings - that clearly effected him in the finals (he's not a pus like D-Wade) - I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

I think you need to look up the term "irrational".

[Leetonidas]

Answered your own statement.

What Duncan did is unprecedented, and he was not injury prone nor is/was Ginobili ever on the level of Tim Duncan. To expect Ginobili to do something because Duncan did is just silly

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

What Duncan did is unprecedented, and he was not injury prone nor is/was Ginobili ever on the level of Tim Duncan. To expect Ginobili to do something because Duncan did is just silly

Read my post above yours

[Leetonidas]

Some players get better with age, yes, but usually the difference is seen from like 23 to 28, not 30+ to 37. Manu will not be better this season than any previous, to expect that is just laughable. I'm not a Manu hater, just a realist. Just because Duncan, one of the greatest players of all-time and the best at his position, was able to do something no one else has ever done and have a better season at 37 than the previous two doesn't mean in any way that Manu is capable of doing the same. Just think about how ridiculous that sounds

[Leetonidas]

Meh, Manu was not injured last season and was healthy going into his disastrous post season. Him resting and his hamstrings have absolutely nothing to do with his horrible decision making and timely turnovers.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Some players get better with age, yes, but usually the difference is seen from like 23 to 28, not 30+ to 37. Manu will not be better this season than any previous, to expect that is just laughable. I'm not a Manu hater, just a realist. Just because Duncan, one of the greatest players of all-time and the best at his position, was able to do something no one else has ever done and have a better season at 37 than the previous two doesn't mean in any way that Manu is capable of doing the same. Just think about how ridiculous that sounds

What sounds even more ridiculous is to completely write him off and completely shut down the thought of him getting better, especially since he has done all the things I've mentioned. He looks healthier, bigger, and his shot is on point right now.

[Leetonidas]

I'd wager to say that if you looked up a list of 36 year old SGs with a decade plus in the league, not many of them are having good years at that point in their careers except for legends like MJ or steroid abusers like Kobe. Like I said, expecting someone who will be 37 by seasons end to turn back the clock this season is just setting yourself up for disappointment

[Skull-1]

Some players get better with age, yes, but usually the difference is seen from like 23 to 28, not 30+ to 37. Manu will not be better this season than any previous, to expect that is just laughable. I'm not a Manu hater, just a realist. Just because Duncan, one of the greatest players of all-time and the best at his position, was able to do something no one else has ever done and have a better season at 37 than the previous two doesn't mean in any way that Manu is capable of doing the same. Just think about how ridiculous that soundsOh shut up, hater. LOL ;) Logic has no place here.

[Skull-1]

Meh, Manu was not injured last season and was healthy going into his disastrous post season. Him resting and his hamstrings have absolutely nothing to do with his horrible decision making and timely turnovers.

[Leetonidas]

I'm not writing him off. It just seems like the pro-Manu crowds thinks that 2005-2007 Ginobili is going to somehow reappear because of a few preseason games (seriously, it's the fucking preseason, let's stop basing our outlook on that). It IS completely ridiculous to think he will get BETTER. To say he will reign it in and play more to his abilities is what I would like to see. Manu is not 26 anymore and him playing like a 26 year old hurts the Spurs big time. I would love for Manu to play well, it would certainly increase our odds, and I'm not one of the people who wants to see him fail at the expense of the team just to be right. I'd love to be proven wrong and would eat a plate full of crow if he does. Fact is, history and science in general is not on your side of this argument. And after his pitiful display in the 2013 postseason it's not a reach for anyone to expect him to continue declining. Aside from the Manu homers on ST, everyone in the entire world who watched the Spurs play can see that he is declining big time.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Oh shut up, hater. LOL ;) Logic has no place here.

Yep. Your logic that has 25% of the forum thinking you're stupid as fuck. Continue.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I'm not writing him off. It just seems like the pro-Manu crowds thinks that 2005-2007 Ginobili is going to somehow reappear because of a few preseason games (seriously, it's the fucking preseason, let's stop basing our outlook on that). It IS completely ridiculous to think he will get BETTER. To say he will reign it in and play more to his abilities is what I would like to see. Manu is not 26 anymore and him playing like a 26 year old hurts the Spurs big time. I would love for Manu to play well, it would certainly increase our odds, and I'm not one of the people who wants to see him fail at the expense of the team just to be right. I'd love to be proven wrong and would eat a plate full of crow if he does. Fact is, history and science in general is not on your side of this argument

I think you are taking our assumptions too far.

For example, name where I said "26 year old Manu will show up"
Look up where I said "Manu will magically go back to prime".

He WILL get better. That finals performance was not Manu's usual play, it was a couple of bad games. To think he will continue playing THAT bad is disrespectful.

But the season will show the results, and you will see.

[Leetonidas]

Well, you said "turn the corner" which kinda implies that he would play like he has in the past. If you mean he will play better this season than last, well, I certainly hope so because it's hard to imagine him figuring out how to play any worse.

[xmas1997]

What is irrational is to think Manu will be better this season than the last one.

I disagree with you too.
What is more rational is to think he will be better than the last playoffs, yet maybe not better than last season.
If that is what you meant then I can agree with you.
There can be no dispute IMHO that Manu has declined over the years as compared to what he was in his prime.
But to NOT allow for the POSSIBILITY that he could improve on his production from the playoffs is highly irrational especially if you consider his competitive nature and his basketball IQ.

[Skull-1]

Yep. Your logic that has 25% of the forum thinking you're stupid as fuck. Continue.You f'ing dumbass. Your statistically insignificant and flawed poll is absolutely MEANINGLESS. Also, 25% of 21,998 users is 5,497. You have 13. You're 5484 votes short of 25% moron and your sample size is neither large enough nor random enough to mean jack sh*t.

[Leetonidas]

Like I said, considering that was literally his worst stretch of play in his entire career, saying he would improve at all may not be a massive stretch or even a noteworthy proclamation because he played so insanely bad it would be difficult for him to play worse.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

You f'ing dumbass. Your statistically insignificant and flawed poll is absolutely MEANINGLESS. Also, 25% of 21,998 users is 5,497. You have 13. You're 5484 votes short of 25% moron and your sample size is neither large enough nor random enough to mean jack sh*t.

tl;dr

:lmao meltdown
:lmao a joke on these forums
:lmao 6 titles without manu

[Skull-1]

tl;dr

:lmao meltdown 25% of 21,998 users is 5,497. You have 13. You're 5484 votes short of 25%, douche.

[Skull-1]

tl;dr

No, it's TS:CR. You need a colon not a semi-colon sh-thead. And it is, "Too STUPID: CAN'T Read" in your case.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

25% of 21,998 users is 5,497. You have 13. You're 5484 votes short of 25%, douche.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

"nobody fallz for dat stepback jumpurz anymoreeee"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUzZk_fdLnk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2VrgUnRJG0


only on lebron, durant, rose, etc...

[Skull-1]

tl;dr


:lmao 6 titles without manuObviously can't read. I said we would have 4-6 NBA Rings without Manu. 1999, 2003, 2007 for sure. I will throw in 2006 and/or 2013 as well. That's four or five. 2005, maybe. That's five or six. No need for Manu in any of them EXCEPT maybe 2005. Depends on what we used in his place. The only irreplaceable people on our championships are Tim and Tony, and maybe Bruce. Period.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Obviously can't read. I said we would have 4-6 NBA Rings without Manu. 1999, 2003, 2007 for sure. I will throw in 2006 and/or 2013 as well. That's four or five. 2005, maybe. That's five or six. No need for Manu in any of them EXCEPT maybe 2005. Depends on what we used in his place. The only irreplaceable people on our championships are Tim and Tony, and maybe Bruce. Period.

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

this shit NEVER gets old :lmao :lmao :lmao

please, tell me next that Manu wasn't significant in 05! :lmao
then tell me how Manu could have easily been replaced by Devin Brown, R-Jefferson, or Brent Barry LOL

[trypldubl]

What sounds even more ridiculous is to completely write him off and completely shut down the thought of him getting better, especially since he has done all the things I've mentioned. He looks healthier, bigger, and his shot is on point right now.

So right now you would trust him with the ball to create something on the offensive end against an elite defense like Miami, Indiana, Chicago and to some extent the thunder in the playoffs? The last two post seasons he has struggled creating shots for himself and others while turning the ball over. Yes he will have good games in the regular season and hit a few game winners. The guy is a clutch shooter but the question is how will he play against those playoff teams that focus on taking away that part of his game.

Right now all he really needs to do is produce 1 or 2 good games in a seven game series and keep the turnovers at a minimum. That's if he still continues to play in the same role as before. The ideal role for him at this point of his career is to be a shooter coming off screens, a few curls to the basket and penetrate when the defense collapses. Manu is a pretty good shooter but he is especially deadly when he is not doing to much on the offensive end that expends his energy.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Skull with the epic meltdown. I'm sure deep down even he knows his argument is seriously flawed.

[Bruno]

I don't see how that is irrational, especially considering it was done with Duncan. Even if you want to pass the claim that "Duncan is different, he is Tim Duncan" - let me just state that that is a baseless claim.

Many people have gotten better with age. Throw into the account of his preseason performances, electing not to play Euro-ball, and having the offseason to rest his hamstrings - that clearly effected him in the finals (he's not a pus like D-Wade) - I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

I think you need to look up the term "irrational".

That's irrational because the logic for a player of Manu's age is getting worse and worse year after year and there is close to nothing right now to claim that he will have a rebound year. Having taking the summer off and looking fine in preseason is nowhere near enough to offset the traditional age decline. Right now, the main reason to think Manu will get better is our belief is his greatness and that's the definition of "irrational".

[benstanfield]

Does everyone not realize that Manu's performance night in and night out will matter less in 2013 than it probably ever has??

[DAF86]

What is irrational is to think Manu will be better this season than the last one.

So do you think it's irrational to expect Manu to shoot better than 40% from the field?

[Skull-1]

Skull with the epic meltdown. I'm sure deep down even he knows his argument is seriously flawed.
Looks like someone needs to research the words epic and meltdown.


Winning 2-4 titles over the last ten years without Manu is that big a stretch? (Again, 1999 and 2003 are already in the bag, so 2004-13, we win at least two and I am right, one which we woulda had in 2007...) Idiot.

[Bruno]

So do you think it's irrational to expect Manu to shoot better than 40% from the field?

If half of his shots taken are still 3 pointers, his FG% won't really be that higher.

[DAF86]

If half of his shots taken are still 3 pointers, his FG% won't really be that higher.

It's irrational to think half his shots won't be three pointers?

[Bruno]

It's irrational to think half his shots won't be three pointers?

Well, he can decide to take else 3 pointers but that won't make him a better player.

[xmas1997]

Well, he can decide to take else 3 pointers but that won't make him a better player.

1. So is it your opinion that because of his age, and because he was so bad in the playoffs, that he will be an even worse player the next two years, and that he is DONE, washed up?

2. Also is it your opinion that if it were not for him, the Spurs would have more championships by now?

3. Lastly, is it your opinion that it is all Manus' fault and no one else's that the Spurs lost this last championship?

Your opinion carries quite a bit of weight around here understandably so, so most of us would like to know how you feel about those three points.
It is the claim of the haters that Manu is the sole and only culprit to all of the Spurs woes, except those who also blame Pop.

[Johnny RIngo]

It is the claim of the haters that Manu is the sole and only culprit to all of the Spurs woes, except those who also blame Pop.

He was the highest paid player on the team at $14 million a year. He was paid star money but played worse than role players like Ray Allen and Danny Green(both on 3 million/year contracts). He deserves plenty of blame.

[UZER]

Manu can have a great year this year. It still wouldnt change that fact that his horrendous play in game 6 cost the spurs the championship last year.

I have never questioned Manus heart or contributions to this team for the past championships. He is my favorite spur ever.

I do however question his brain at this point. Repeated boneheaded turnovers, ill advised shots in critical moments of the that he pulled off when younger are not acceptable at this stage of his career, and are hurting the team. Its not neutral, its not indifferent, its costing the team games! If he is not willing to adjust his game, then pop needs to sit him because its not fair to the other guys.

***Nobody is asking for 05 Manu, we're asking for a Manu that realizes its not 05.***

[Bruno]

1. So is it your opinion that because of his age, and because he was so bad in the playoffs, that he will be an even worse player the next two years, and that he is DONE, washed up?

2. Also is it your opinion that if it were not for him, the Spurs would have more championships by now?

3. Lastly, is it your opinion that it is all Manus' fault and no one else's that the Spurs lost this last championship?

Your opinion carries quite a bit of weight around here understandably so, so most of us would like to know how you feel about those three points.
It is the claim of the haters that Manu is the sole and only culprit to all of the Spurs woes, except those who also blame Pop.


1. Manu wasn't "so bad" in the playoffs. He is still a damn good player. What I'm saying is that the expectation for a 36 years old player is to get worst with each year passing. While, it's possible for Manu to have a Duncan's like rebound season, it really isn't the most likely scenario.

2. No, that's stupid.

3. No, that's stupid.

Both Manu's haters and homers are extremely excessive on that subject. There is clearly a huge gap between their opinions and I'm somewhere in that gap. Manu is still a very good player but he is clearly on the decline and nowhere near his prime level. It's just stating the obvious.


And despite what some think, Manu has aged well considering his position and his style to play. Players aging well in the NBA are pass first PG, bigmen and spot up shooters and he is none of that. Manu being able to play at his last season level while being 35 years old is quite remarkable.
A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan.

[TXstbobcat]

I don't expect him to be an all star this season but I do think he can help the spurs get back to the finals.

[Bruno]

And Manu will be the third oldest wing in the NBA this season behind Allen and Carter. He starts to be really old.

[xmas1997]

1. Manu wasn't "so bad" in the playoffs. He is still a damn good player. What I'm saying is that the expectation for a 36 years old player is to get worst with each year passing. While, it's possible for Manu to have a Duncan's like rebound season, it really isn't the most likely scenario.

2. No, that's stupid.

3. No, that's stupid.

Both Manu's haters and homers are extremely excessive on that subject. There is clearly a huge gap between their opinions and I'm somewhere in that gap. Manu is still a very good player but he is clearly on the decline and nowhere near his prime level. It's just stating the obvious.


And despite what some think, Manu has aged well considering his position and his style to play. Players aging well in the NBA are pass first PG, bigmen and spot up shooters and he is none of that. Manu being able to play at his last season level while being 35 years old is quite remarkable.
A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan.


Thank you, Bruno, as always your opinion is valued.
To be honest most of the Manu fans here actually do not believe that Manu is anywhere near being infallible, in fact most of us believe the same as you do. I know I do, and I've been one of the most vocal in Manu' defense.
What causes the extremes are the need to have to respond to the haters obsession of blaming him for everything.
Most of us are reacting to the false accusations that we are Manu lovers by the haters (they say Manutards) simply because we refuse to go along with all the hate, and all the blame, when in reality we are Spur fans, not solely Manu fans.
I hope you understand.

[UZER]

Thank you, Bruno, as always your opinion is valued.
To be honest most of the Manu fans here actually do not believe that Manu is anywhere near being infallible, in fact most of us believe the same as you do. I know I do, and I've been one of the most vocal in Manu' defense.
What causes the extremes are the need to have to respond to the haters obsession of blaming him for everything.
Most of us are reacting to the false accusations that we are Manu lovers by the haters (they say Manutards) simply because we refuse to go along with all the hate, and all the blame, when in reality we are Spur fans, not solely Manu fans.
I hope you understand.

Everthing you just said....but from the other side of the isle.

[Skull-1]

Manu can have a great year this year. It still wouldnt change that fact that his horrendous play in game 6 cost the spurs the championship last year.

I have never questioned Manus heart or contributions to this team for the past championships. He is my favorite spur ever.

I do however question his brain at this point. Repeated boneheaded turnovers, ill advised shots in critical moments of the that he pulled off when younger are not acceptable at this stage of his career, and are hurting the team. Its not neutral, its not indifferent, its costing the team games! If he is not willing to adjust his game, then pop needs to sit him because its not fair to the other guys.

***Nobody is asking for 05 Manu, we're asking for a Manu that realizes its not 05.***

[ElNono]

Both Manu's haters and homers are extremely excessive on that subject. There is clearly a huge gap between their opinions and I'm somewhere in that gap. Manu is still a very good player but he is clearly on the decline and nowhere near his prime level. It's just stating the obvious.

Basically this is what it boils down to. Adjust expectations. He's clearly on the decline. He's going to have ups and downs.

Manu himself said injuries really got into his head last season. If he can stay healthy (big if), he'll be fine. And if he can't, he can't.

[xmas1997]

Everthing you just said....but from the other side of the isle.

I can accept and understand your opinion, user, because it is rational, shows thought and insight, and none of the obsessiveness of the haters.
I can see you are being objective about it as best you can, but you make the claim that "Manu cost us the title" and that part has been clearly shown to be a gross over statement by many on here already.
All that is asked is to read those posts so you can see what most of us see, namely that Manu was not the only one who made mistakes, they all did, and just as there were valid reasons that Green quit making 3s, and Tony quit making his shots, so were there valid reasons that Manu had his turnovers.
The objective fan who observes through the use of his unbiased basketball intelligence are capable of seeing this.

[xmas1997]

Basically this is what it boils down to. Adjust expectations. He's clearly on the decline. He's going to have ups and downs.

Manu himself said injuries really got into his head last season. If he can stay healthy (big if), he'll be fine. And if he can't, he can't.

I agree.

[Johnny RIngo]

A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan.

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact.

[spurs10]

1. Manu wasn't "so bad" in the playoffs. He is still a damn good player. What I'm saying is that the expectation for a 36 years old player is to get worst with each year passing. While, it's possible for Manu to have a Duncan's like rebound season, it really isn't the most likely scenario.

2. No, that's stupid.

3. No, that's stupid.

Both Manu's haters and homers are extremely excessive on that subject. There is clearly a huge gap between their opinions and I'm somewhere in that gap. Manu is still a very good player but he is clearly on the decline and nowhere near his prime level. It's just stating the obvious.


And despite what some think, Manu has aged well considering his position and his style to play. Players aging well in the NBA are pass first PG, bigmen and spot up shooters and he is none of that. Manu being able to play at his last season level while being 35 years old is quite remarkable.
A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan. Thanks for the succinct and logical response to xmas1997's questions. I can't imagine these opinions aren't those of most Spurs fans. As ElNono has stated, he will go as his injuries go. Thanks for that info that "only 2 other SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan." That speaks volumes. It is indeed "stupid" to think that Manu was solely responsible for our loss in game 6 and the Finals. Any one player makes one free-throw, hits one missed shot, blocks a shot, or gets one more rebound and it's a different story. One of those guys is Manu, but there are several other names.

[UZER]

I can accept and understand your opinion, user, because it is rational, hows thought and insight, and none of the obsessiveness of the haters.
I can see you are being objective about it as best you can, but you make the claim that "Manu cost us the title" and that part has been clearly shown to be a gross over statement by many on here already.
All that is asked is to read those posts so you can see what most of us see, namely that Manu was not the only one who made mistakes, they all did, and just as there were valid reasons that Green quit making 3s, and Tony quit making his shots, so were there valid reasons that Manu had his turnovers.
The objective fan who observes through the use of his unbiased basketball intelligence are capable of seeing this.

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the title" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

[trypldubl]

The objective fan who observes through the use of his unbiased basketball intelligence are capable of seeing this.

Dude you are clearly not one of them

Tony hit 2 big shot at the end of regulation and green missing shots is better than a turnover which leads to transition buckets and also put the defense on its heals.

If Manu had turned it over once or twice then it would not have been a big deal. Hell even 4 is not that bad. He turned it over 8 times and was a plus minus -21. As bad as Parker shot was he was still a +8. Yea Leonard missed a free throw and Manu did too but I would expect Manu to hit both because he has been in big games before. Leonard responded in overtime with some big buckets and Manu with the Spurs down by one on the last possession turns the ball over.

Dude I think Manu is a top 5 Spur of all time and was a great player but you can't turn the ball over as much as he did in that game and not think that was the reason for the loss.

[Skull-1]

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact. RIngo with the Stat Truth Bomb. BOOM.

[Skull-1]

Dude you are clearly not one of them

Tony hit 2 big shot at the end of regulation and green missing shots is better than a turnover which leads to transition buckets and also put the defense on its heels.

If Manu had turned it over once or twice then it would not have been a big deal. Hell even 4 is not that bad. He turned it over 8 times and was a plus minus -21. As bad as Parker shot was he was still a +8. Yea Leonard missed a free throw and Manu did too but I would expect Manu to hit both because he has been in big games before. Leonard responded in overtime with some big buckets and Manu with the Spurs down by one on the last possession turns the ball over.

Dude I think Manu is a top 5 Spur of all time and was a great player but you can't turn the ball over as much as he did in that game and not think that was the reason for the loss.
BINGO!

[xmas1997]

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the title" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

No, you misunderstood me, I never said you were not intelligent. In fact just the opposite. I commended you on your rationality and only disagree with one point.
I don't know where you thought I was insulting your intelligence which I was not.
My best guess is that you were reacting to my last sentence, but I purposely worded it the way I did so that would not happen. I said "one" not "you" to differentiate between you and the haters.
Sorry, didn't mean you. I sincerely liked your opinion.

[ElNono]

Gino had one great game, one terrible game... so-so, tbh...

[Skull-1]

Gino had one great game, one terrible game... so-so, tbh...:lmao

[xmas1997]

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the title" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

No, you misunderstood me, I never said you were not intelligent. In fact just the opposite. I commended you on your rationality and only disagree with one point.
I don't know where you thought I was insulting your intelligence which I was not.
My best guess is that you were reacting to my last sentence, but I purposely worded it the way I did so that would not happen. I said "one" not "you" to differentiate between you and the haters.
Sorry, didn't mean you. I sincerely liked your opinion.

[Arcadian]

I don't understand the premise. "Turning the corner" isn't something you do when you're on the decline in your career and have already been on the decline for a number of years. I don't think you know what that term actually means.

What you perhaps meant to say was that he will "recover from disaster" somewhat. I do think that can happen to some extent. He needs to be more cautious if we get back to the Finals and play a smaller role. If he does that, he'll be fine.

[DAF86]

Well, he can decide to take else 3 pointers but that won't make him a better player.

If it improves his FG% and decision making yes, yes it will make him a better player.

[rascal]

Manu is nothing more than a role player. Problem is he thinks he is still at the top of his game and the spurs will try to use him like a star who will carry the team.

[Skull-1]

Manu is nothing more than a role player. Problem is he thinks he is still at the top of his game and the spurs will try to use him like a star who will carry the team.Truth nuke.

[Skull-1]

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact.Johnny R once again wit da Stat Nuke of Truth. Boom.

[KL2]

I wouldn't be surprised if he does start off well, but as always he'll get injured and take months to regain his rhythm, time that the Spurs may not have.