How many titles would we have won without Manu?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

We won one before him, lost two because of him, and could have arguably won the other three without him. That's six. Put down the crack pipe.

:lmao not realizing Manu was arguably the 2005 finals MVP
:lmao ignoring the only part of our bench that has been consistent over the years
:lmao even in 2013 without Manu, our bench absolutely sucked at the end of the season
:lmao thinking the Spurs would produce the same numbers and have the same success without their arguably best scorer post-2003.
:lmao bandwagon fan from 2013

How many titles would we win without Manu?

[Skull-1]

Without Tim we win zero. Can you say the same without Manu? Hell no.

That's not even a balanced poll as it is skewed negative.


Epic fail douchebag.

:lol

[look_at_g_shred]

Just 1999 & 2003

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Without Tim we win zero. Can you say the same without Manu? Hell no.

That's not even a balanced poll as it is skewed negative.


Epic fail douchebag.

:lol

:lmao being completely uninformed about the Spurs
:lmao six titles without Manu
:lmao completely ignoring history
:lmao ignorant as fuck

[Prime Time]

Too many different factors to add... Would Spurs have kept Barbosa, Scola, etc. without Manu's contract? I'd like to think they could have at least won 03 without Manu. And given Spurs' development staff, I wouldn't be surprised if they could have turned someone like Granger. Josh Howard, or Bellinelli to a true stud (Had they had them their whole career.)

My answer is at least 1. Not so sure about 2, 2013 is really debatable because Manu hit the huge three against Golden State. But 1 would be my answer

[monkeypunk]

1 - 99'

[Prime Time]

IMO This question is more complex than people make it sound like. Had Spurs not gotten a good wing player, would they have just drafted Josh Howard? I think Howard would have been good enough to win a title in 07. There's so many factors than us just taking Manu off the team.

Don't get me wrong.. I'd take Manu over Howard any day. But this really is too complicated

[dallasmaverickslose]

Without Tim we win zero. Can you say the same without Manu? Hell no.

That's not even a balanced poll as it is skewed negative.


Epic fail douchebag.

:lol

:lmao LMAO fucking dumbass. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Timmy.

Not that I'm shocked irrational haters/2013 bandwagon fans/TGY minions such as yourself would try to spin a thread into something it has nothing to do with...

[DesignatedT]

Would have lost 05

Would have won 13

[SpurCharger]

probably would have got 03 without him...... and 07 was a cake walk..... but he was the man in 05.....

[monkeypunk]

Would have won 13

Doubt we'd have seen the 13 finals at all without him.

[benstanfield]

'99 of course
'03 arguably

None of the others. Richard Jefferson is what the FO would've done with Manu's cap space all those years.

[Skull-1]

:lmao LMAO fucking dumbass. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Timmy.

Not that I'm shocked irrational haters/2013 bandwagon fans/TGY minions such as yourself would try to spin a thread into something it has nothing to do with...

Go read the original thread moron.

This clown keeps saying Manu won three titles. BS. He helped. Someone else could have, too, in his place--the possible exception being 2005.

Without Tim, Manu doesn't win jack squat!!! Tim is irreplaceable. The same cannot be said of the human turnover bonanza.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Go read the original thread moron.

This clown keeps saying Manu won three titles. BS. He helped. Someone else could have, too, in his place--the possible exception being 2005.

Without Tim, Manu doesn't win jack squat!!! Tim is irreplaceable. The same cannot be said of the human turnover bonanza.

Umm WTF? What the hell kind of logic is this? I guess while you're at it you should also say the Admiral, Bowen, Parker, Pop, and Avery Johnson (just to name a few) didn't win any titles either. They were just little helpers.

Seriously WTF? This might be once of the dumbest tangents I've ever heard from a 2013 bandwagon Spurs fan. I'm sure if you ask Timmy he'll say Manu was a fellow WINNER of 3 of his titles, not simply a helper.

[CitizenDwayne]

Would have lost 05

Would have won 13

Could have lost to the Warriors, though

[dallasmaverickslose]

Could have lost to the Warriors, though

Might have not won game 5, and may not have been quite as close in game 7, despite his turnovers.

[xmas1997]

Four titles, three with Manu, one more coming.
Odd, the poll sure shows the truth and not BS.
I wonder why.

[TXstbobcat]

Might have not won game 5, and may not have been quite as close in game 7, despite his turnovers.

Manu's performance in game 5 of he finals was incredible. I will never forget being at that game with the whole arena chanting Manu.

[Johnny RIngo]

Umm WTF? What the hell kind of logic is this? I guess while you're at it you should also say the Admiral, Bowen, Parker, Pop, and Avery Johnson (just to name a few) didn't win any titles either. They were just little helpers.

Seriously WTF? This might be once of the dumbest tangents I've ever heard from a 2013 bandwagon Spurs fan. I'm sure if you ask Timmy he'll say Manu was a fellow WINNER of 3 of his titles, not simply a helper.

Actually, he's right. Duncan has always been the most important player on the team during every championship run. Manu, until 2012, was always a pretty good playoff performer. Not star level like Timmy but good. 2005 was definitely an aberration though. Played way over his head and never reached that level again. From 2012 on, he's been an overpaid role player. Very disappointing in the 2012 playoffs. Flat-out sucked last year...despite being the highest paid player on the team and having the most rest of any of the guys on SA"s roster(spent a good portion of the season healing on company time after playing his best ball for Argentina).

[spurraider21]

Would have lost 05

Would have won 13
if he doesn't make the game winner against the warriors, do we pass the 2nd round, tbh?
if not for his game 5 in the finals, are we even up 3-2 going into game 6?

[Juggity]

Doubt we'd have seen the 13 finals at all without him.

I disagree pretty strongly. Last year was the first playoffs I've seen where Manu's presence was a net negative on the court.

Citing the gamewinner against GS doesn't erase the terrible shot he took less than 30 seconds before, which made the gamewinner necessary in the first place.

He didn't significantly contribute in a positive manner except for 1 game against Miami and and 1 shot against Golden State.

The Spurs make the finals with or without Manu. That said, they also lose the finals with or without him as well. Miami was just, ultimately, too good. Too many clutch shooters. Too much Lebron James. Too much wealth of talent. Manu's turnovers were costly, but it was Miami who reached out and grabbed those games.

[Sean Cagney]

2 probably...... 99 and 03 but looking back at 03 he hit some big ass shots in that run and some key shots in the finals too! I remember key game 3 he hit a huge shot at the end. Manu is the man.

[Sean Cagney]

Just 1999 & 2003

03 MAYBE NOT, not just Jax with a barrage of threes and big shots, Manu was there throughout that run with some big shots and steals etc. IN 03 Manu can through in key moments in those playoffs, look at the DVD again or box scores, Manu had a barrage of threes with Jax in some games and just key moments like NJ game three where he hit a HUGE SHOT TO CLINCH the game! I remember game 6 Dallas too, his layup earlier in the 4th and his three in that Q sparked a run too! He was made slept on in 03 but he came through as a winner since day one.

[eric365]

Doubt we'd have seen the 13 finals at all without him.

Because the 14M cap space would not have bring a better player than 13' Manu ?

With a 10-15M player instead of Manu in 09', maybe 12' and for sure 13' we would have had a better chance at winning it all

[mudyez]

surely wouldn't have won in '05.

you can make a case for '13 but thats not certain.

that leaves us with 2,5 ships :)

[Skull-1]

I disagree pretty strongly. Last year was the first playoffs I've seen where Manu's presence was a net negative on the court.

Citing the gamewinner against GS doesn't erase the terrible shot he took less than 30 seconds before, which made the gamewinner necessary in the first place.

He didn't significantly contribute in a positive manner except for 1 game against Miami and and 1 shot against Golden State.

The Spurs make the finals with or without Manu. That said, they also lose the finals with or without him as well. Miami was just, ultimately, too good. Too many clutch shooters. Too much Lebron James. Too much wealth of talent. Manu's turnovers were costly, but it was Miami who reached out and grabbed those games.

[xmas1997]

03 MAYBE NOT, not just Jax with a barrage of threes and big shots, Manu was there throughout that run with some big shots and steals etc. IN 03 Manu can through in key moments in those playoffs, look at the DVD again or box scores, Manu had a barrage of threes with Jax in some games and just key moments like NJ game three where he hit a HUGE SHOT TO CLINCH the game! I remember game 6 Dallas too, his layup earlier in the 4th and his three in that Q sparked a run too! He was made slept on in 03 but he came through as a winner since day one.

[look_at_g_shred]

03 MAYBE NOT, not just Jax with a barrage of threes and big shots, Manu was there throughout that run with some big shots and steals etc. IN 03 Manu can through in key moments in those playoffs, look at the DVD again or box scores, Manu had a barrage of threes with Jax in some games and just key moments like NJ game three where he hit a HUGE SHOT TO CLINCH the game! I remember game 6 Dallas too, his layup earlier in the 4th and his three in that Q sparked a run too! He was made slept on in 03 but he came through as a winner since day one.
Good point man!

[Darius Bieber]

I say we would have won 3. 1999, 2007 and 2013. 2003 is perhaps a maybe, but the entire Spurs team won 2005. If we take any Spurs player out (whether it be Bruce, Barry, Horry, Manu, etc...) the Spurs would have lost. It was one hell of a series.

The 2013 Finals wasn't all on Manu. Sure, he had plenty of turnovers but the Spurs, as a team, failed to clinch the last 26 seconds. One rebound away from a Ring meant anyone on the team. I recall Boris had an opportunity to rebound the ball after a James missed three and before Allen made his. Even if Boris just knocked the ball away to the other end of the court, Spurs win Game 6.

[Leetonidas]

Impossible to tell. Who would be playing in his place?

[monkeypunk]

Because the 14M cap space would not have bring a better player than 13' Manu ?

With a 10-15M player instead of Manu in 09', maybe 12' and for sure 13' we would have had a better chance at winning it all


I disagree pretty strongly. Last year was the first playoffs I've seen where Manu's presence was a net negative on the court.

Citing the gamewinner against GS doesn't erase the terrible shot he took less than 30 seconds before, which made the gamewinner necessary in the first place.

He didn't significantly contribute in a positive manner except for 1 game against Miami and and 1 shot against Golden State.

The Spurs make the finals with or without Manu. That said, they also lose the finals with or without him as well. Miami was just, ultimately, too good. Too many clutch shooters. Too much Lebron James. Too much wealth of talent. Manu's turnovers were costly, but it was Miami who reached out and grabbed those games.

if you think that we get the seeding we got last year without Manu, you're kidding yourselves. Over the course of a season (which is what you have to consider) he is a net positive.

It's easy to cite one series or one game as bad but you have to look at the big picture. We may have been able to get a 12 to 15 million player but the odds of him gelling with the team like Manu has aren't that great. And nearly impossible to duplicate the spark / aggressiveness that Manu brings.

You could say that Duncan cost us the ring by not hitting the bunnies at the end of game 7. Or for Kawhi missing free throws. Or Neal and Green for not hitting their 3s in 6 and 7. Or Splitter for letting Bosh get the rebound that led to the Allen 3 at the end of game 6.

Easy to point fingers based on one game but you have to consider the season as a whole.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot.

[Skull-1]

It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot. Which will be the last time we see that from him when it counts. From the Finals 2013 forward his TURNOVER/MISSED FT/BAD SHOT will double down on his previous BAD SHOT.

[superbigtime]

Would've won 3 without him including 2013.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Which will be the last time we see that from him when it counts. From the Finals 2013 forward his TURNOVER/MISSED FT/BAD SHOT will double down on his previous BAD SHOT.

You are wrong. And you will be proven wrong. I guarantee you Ginobili hits at least 1-2 game winners this year. And I'll bump this post each time it does.

But this thread has run it's course. 80% of this forum knows what they're talking about, and 1/4 of them think you're a dumbass. Maybe you should take a hint. Even if you don't, it doesn't matter it's pretty damn funny now. After your post at the top, I no longer take you serious. Perhaps there's a reason not even TGY defends you anymore.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Would've won 3 without him including 2013.

:downspin:

You trust Cory Joseph to take over the ball handling and you trust someone else to show up in game five and account for 24 points and 10 assists? You trust someone else to be a leader to the team and you trust someone else to run the bench? - A lot of optimism in my opinion.

[xmas1997]

if you think that we get the seeding we got last year without Manu, you're kidding yourselves. Over the course of a season (which is what you have to consider) he is a net positive.

It's easy to cite one series or one game as bad but you have to look at the big picture. We may have been able to get a 12 to 15 million player but the odds of him gelling with the team like Manu has aren't that great. And nearly impossible to duplicate the spark / aggressiveness that Manu brings.

You could say that Duncan cost us the ring by not hitting the bunnies at the end of game 7. Or for Kawhi missing free throws. Or Neal and Green for not hitting their 3s in 6 and 7. Or Splitter for letting Bosh get the rebound that led to the Allen 3 at the end of game 6.

Easy to point fingers based on one game but you have to consider the season as a whole.




It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot.

I agree with both of you, and the truth is aptly reflected in the poll above!
Small minds cannot grasp any of this reasoning, that much has become obvious!
All they can do is hurl blind, unreasonable, and obsessive hatred at the one person they deem most responsible for the most mistakes.
But truth keeps coming out and smacking them in the face, yet they stubbornly refuse to accept the truth.
Thus it is not our or Manus' problem, it is the haters problem!

[superbigtime]

:downspin:

You trust Cory Joseph to take over the ball handling and you trust someone else to show up in game five and account for 24 points and 10 assists? You trust someone else to be a leader to the team and you trust someone else to run the bench? - A lot of optimism in my opinion.

I don't trust Cory Joseph to take out the trash.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I don't trust Cory Joseph to take out the trash.

Then how the hell do we win the finals without him?

[superbigtime]

Then how the hell do we win the finals without him?

You're right, spurs just wouldve won 99 and 03. Spurs had no consistent ball handler/creator after Tony, including Manu.

2013 Manu: can't win with him, can't win without him.

[Skull-1]

You are wrong. And you will be proven wrong. I guarantee you Ginobili hits at least 1-2 game winners this year. And I'll bump this post each time it does.Bump all you like idiot. He will not win any playoff games that count. PLAYOFFS. I don't care about the Regular Season. Even Bonner can do that.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Bump all you like idiot. He will not win any playoff games that count. PLAYOFFS. I don't care about the Regular Season. Even Bonner can do that.

Who said anything about the season? - Just wait.

[Skull-1]

But this thread has run it's course. 80% of this forum knows what they're talking about, and 1/4 of them think you're a dumbass. Maybe you should take a hint. Even if you don't, it doesn't matter it's pretty damn funny now. After your post at the top, I no longer take you serious. Perhaps there's a reason not even TGY defends you anymore.
A flawed, leading, statistically insignificant poll among a bunch of braindead homers? PLEASE. Lemmings. I am glad I am in the minority because most of you on here are retarded.

[Skull-1]

Who said anything about the season? - Just wait. Playoffs. Games that count. Not down 0-3 and lose the series. Manu won't do jack except lose another ring. BUMP AWAY!! BRING IT ON.

[McGusto55]

1...tbh

[dallasmaverickslose]

A flawed, leading, statistically insignificant poll among a bunch of braindead homers? PLEASE. Lemmings. I am glad I am in the minority because most of you on here are retarded.

Lmfao... Skull can't cope with the fact that he is a forum certified dumbass.

[Skull-1]

Lmfao... Skull can't cope with the fact that he is a forum certified dumbass.I am a dumbass? Really? Winning 2-4 titles over the last ten years without Manu is that big a stretch? (Again, 1999 and 2003 are already in the bag, so 2004-13, we win at least two and I am right, one which we woulda had in 2007... Sounds like you're the dumbass.)

[look_at_g_shred]

How about non-believers just stay the fuck out this thread! No one obviously gives a shit about your opinions!!

[TXstbobcat]

This is a pointless arguement. The spurs have 4 more titles than a lot of nba teams. Fans should just move on from last year and enjoy the last few years of what has been a fun couple of decades of spurs basketball.

[monkeypunk]

How about non-believers just stay the fuck out this thread! No one obviously gives a shit about your opinions!!

I wish the Ellis'es had closed new registrations after the Finals so we didn't have all these gotdamn trolls in here now.

:flipoff :troll :flipoff

[Skull-1]

I wish the Ellis'es had closed new registrations after the Finals so we didn't have all these gotdamn trolls in here now.

:flipoff :troll :flipoff Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it takes six months to get approved. The playoffs weren't even on the horizon when some of us registered, so "these g'd'd trolls" as you call them, are not a result of The Finals. Duh.

[ElNono]

1

[monkeypunk]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it takes six months to get approved. The playoffs weren't even on the horizon when some of us registered, so "these g'd'd trolls" as you call them, are not a result of The Finals. Duh.

tl;dr

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am a dumbass? Really? Winning 2-4 titles over the last ten years without Manu is that big a stretch? (Again, 1999 and 2003 are already in the bag, so 2004-13, we win at least two and I am right, one which we woulda had in 2007... Sounds like you're the dumbass.)

Winning those titles without the third offensive option that he provided is more than a stretch; it is a stupid take. You bring stupidity to a whole new level, liar.

[Skull-1]

TS:CR
Fixed.

[monkeypunk]

Fixed.

This message is hidden because Skull-1 is on your ignore list.

Now, it is fixed. :lol

Now, kindly go fuck yourself...

[Skull-1]

This message is hidden because Skull-1 is on your ignore list.

Now, it is fixed. :lol

Now, kindly go fuck yourself... Wah. You're too stupid to understand me any way.

[Kidd K]

I don't get the poll's question. We have four titles, not three.

I would say we'd have at least 2 without him pretty much guaranteed (assuming we'd at LEAST have a replacement league average starting SG, not just a random reserve scrub starting), and a strong chance at more for most years after the 2nd.

I give Manu huge credit for our 2005 and 2007 titles since he deserves it, but he played poorly in 2008, was often injured since then, and has had his playoff performance slip down noticably every year since 2011.

So logically, we'd have a minimum of 2 titles, and while I give Manu huge credit for being great in our 2005 and 2007 runs, I think we literally would not have been worse off if we had a league average NBA starting SG the past two years instead of Manu. Especially last year. So while we wouldn't have won in 2005 and probably not 2007 if we couldn't make it past the Suns, I think it's strongly arguable we could've won last year with a replacement SG. Manu also wasn't that particularly good in 2012 either. He had some good games but he was already trending those awful games on the road at OKC too. Check the box scores. Awful numbers at OKC while Harden was creaming him all series.

I give the dude his due credit especially for his career outside of the recent two seasons, but let's not act like our team would've been a lost cause without him. Spurs would've paid someone else to play SG for us and it wouldn't have been a bum. We also probably could've afford Luis Scola as well had we not been paying our SG as much as we have Manu, but I know that's a can of worms. Just saying, it isn't like we would've gone from Manu to total bum with no moves being made whatsoever.


You could say that Duncan cost us the ring by not hitting the bunnies at the end of game 7. Or for Kawhi missing free throws. Or Neal and Green for not hitting their 3s in 6 and 7. Or Splitter for letting Bosh get the rebound that led to the Allen 3 at the end of game 6.

Easy to point fingers based on one game but you have to consider the season as a whole.

That isn't nearly the same thing. You're pointing out one play and comparing it to a guy who blew a dozen plays in a single game. That's called false equivilency. 12 blown plays in a single close game does not = 1 or two blown plays. I agree you could easily say that, but you'd also easily be wrong to blame them equally.

As for the season as a whole, it was pretty much Manu's worst season in like a decade too. . .so you're kinda not saying much. Not trying to Manu bash, just don't like false equivilency.

[jestersmash]

Probably about the same. We lose 05 and win 13.

[SpurSwag]

Well congrats, i have officially had enough of this website and don't think i'm gonna post again. The fact that people on here genuinely think the spurs would have more rings or the same amount without manu is without a doubt (seriously, no exaggeration here) the stupidest, most uninformed take on anything i have ever heard in my life. Anyone who actually understands basketball and can process and analyze things at a 3rd grade level will be the first to tell you that without manu 05 and 07 just don't happen. Period. No if's, and's or but's. Honestly i am shocked at how little loyalty and appreciation some of you have, and though I've never taken the internet too seriously, i can tell that those who think this must just be pieces of shit in real life tbh if they can't appreciate someone who has put in so much effort and heart into his career here. I used to get the whole "spurs fans are the most spoiled" shtick because of our success, but it has really made some of you into complete pussies. Did he play really poorly and maybe even cost us a title with his poor game 6 performance? Possibly. Does that take away from his many accomplishments and his drive that made him a fan favorite for years? Absolutely not. This site man, i swear...

[SpurSwag]

Without Tim we win zero. Can you say the same without Manu? Hell no.

That's not even a balanced poll as it is skewed negative.


Epic fail douchebag.

:lol

What the fuck does this even mean? No shit the spurs wouldn't have won without Duncan, show me one time where any one ever has tried to refute this. Show me one fuckin post where someone says manu has been more vital in our title runs. That's like saying Parker sucks because without Tim we don't win shit.

[Skull-1]

Uh, the douchebag OP who claims Manu "won three titles".




Not. Manu might be irreplaceable in 2005.......maybe. Not in 2003 or 2007 and screwed us in 2006, 2013, and probably a couple more I am too tired to cite.

[Josepatches_]

Without Manu? The Spurs would be a very different team. TP could be playing elsewhere. Pop and TD could be at home a couple years ago. Without Manu the history of the Spurs and the history of the NBA the last 10 years would be different.

[Josepatches_]

05 and 07[/B] just don't happen. Period.

Without both titles...... how many things could change? Trades, coaches, legacy........... No Big3 era .

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Well congrats, i have officially had enough of this website and don't think i'm gonna post again. The fact that people on here genuinely think the spurs would have more rings or the same amount without manu is without a doubt (seriously, no exaggeration here) the stupidest, most uninformed take on anything i have ever heard in my life. Anyone who actually understands basketball and can process and analyze things at a 3rd grade level will be the first to tell you that without manu 05 and 07 just don't happen. Period. No if's, and's or but's. Honestly i am shocked at how little loyalty and appreciation some of you have, and though I've never taken the internet too seriously, i can tell that those who think this must just be pieces of shit in real life tbh if they can't appreciate someone who has put in so much effort and heart into his career here. I used to get the whole "spurs fans are the most spoiled" shtick because of our success, but it has really made some of you into complete pussies. Did he play really poorly and maybe even cost us a title with his poor game 6 performance? Possibly. Does that take away from his many accomplishments and his drive that made him a fan favorite for years? Absolutely not. This site man, i swear...

/thread.

[Skull-1]

Actually, he's right. Duncan has always been the most important player on the team during every championship run. Manu, until 2012, was always a pretty good playoff performer. Not star level like Timmy but good. 2005 was definitely an aberration though. Played way over his head and never reached that level again. From 2012 on, he's been an overpaid role player. Very disappointing in the 2012 playoffs. Flat-out sucked last year...despite being the highest paid player on the team and having the most rest of any of the guys on SA"s roster(spent a good portion of the season healing on company time after playing his best ball for Argentina).
Boom.

[xmas1997]

Well congrats, i have officially had enough of this website and don't think i'm gonna post again. The fact that people on here genuinely think the spurs would have more rings or the same amount without manu is without a doubt (seriously, no exaggeration here) the stupidest, most uninformed take on anything i have ever heard in my life. Anyone who actually understands basketball and can process and analyze things at a 3rd grade level will be the first to tell you that without manu 05 and 07 just don't happen. Period. No if's, and's or but's. Honestly i am shocked at how little loyalty and appreciation some of you have, and though I've never taken the internet too seriously, i can tell that those who think this must just be pieces of shit in real life tbh if they can't appreciate someone who has put in so much effort and heart into his career here. I used to get the whole "spurs fans are the most spoiled" shtick because of our success, but it has really made some of you into complete pussies. Did he play really poorly and maybe even cost us a title with his poor game 6 performance? Possibly. Does that take away from his many accomplishments and his drive that made him a fan favorite for years? Absolutely not. This site man, i swear...

You are right and have a legitimate gripe.
Unfortunately these haters are ruining this site with their ignorant obsession. They spoil every thread with the same old unappreciative annoying spiel. And it does not matter to them what the topic of the thread is, as long as they can pollute it with their hateful dribble about Manu, then they are happy.

As long as this hate squad keeps doing this, it will spur a ground swell of detractors to their nonsense. They created this unbiased opposition to them in the first place, and that opposition will continue to grow with each of their ignorant posts.

You have every right to be ashamed of these obsessive haters. As a critical and rational Spurs fan you can see where criticism is due with regard to the Spurs, but when it crosses the line from criticism into the realm of biased obsessive nonsense, that is when it shows a complete lack of class such that it will always provoke a swift and thorough rebuke.

Good luck to the haters on here. Instead of convincing the vast majority of us, they will continue to lose any shred of credibility that remains to them until no one pays any attention to them at all. Good with that.

[dbreiden83080]

3..

1999
2003
2013..

Manu was a mess in 2003 he didn't do much and 2013.. Well uh yeah.........

[james evans]

3..

1999
2003
2013..

Manu was a mess in 2003 he didn't do much and 2013.. Well uh yeah.........
i agree. 99, didn't have him. 2003 didn't do much and 2013. shit, we can even add in 2006 if u like. so about 4, the same about we have now. and who's to say without him in 05 and 07 they wouldn't have just added another guard to fill in his role? let's stop making ginobli out to be a franchise player . yes he helped in the title runs, but he was neither a 1st or 2nd option.

[james evans]

:lmao not realizing Manu was arguably the 2005 finals MVP
:lmao ignoring the only part of our bench that has been consistent over the years
:lmao even in 2013 without Manu, our bench absolutely sucked at the end of the season
:lmao thinking the Spurs would produce the same numbers and have the same success without their arguably best scorer post-2003.
:lmao bandwagon fan from 2013

How many titles would we win without Manu?
what about the playoffs? there was no doubt we were going in the playoffs as a top seed, but other than game 5 in the finals, what did he do the whole playoffs? yeah, mention the game winning 3 agaist golden state, but please don' forget the 3 early in the shootclock from about 26 feet.

[dbreiden83080]

i agree. 99, didn't have him. 2003 didn't do much and 2013. shit, we can even add in 2006 if u like. so about 4, the same about we have now. and who's to say without him in 05 and 07 they wouldn't have just added another guard to fill in his role? let's stop making ginobli out to be a franchise player . yes he helped in the title runs, but he was neither a 1st or 2nd he wasoption.


He was great in 05 might have cost us a chip single handily in 06 and 13 and was good in 07.. Manu has always been hit or miss his whole career.. Great Spur but you can't ignore all the bad that came with the good..

[moisaenz]

The main question these past years what free agent could the spurs have gotten if they had not gotten ginobili such contracts? which free agent would have come here to play with Duncan and fill manu's role??

[Skull-1]

i agree. 99, didn't have him. 2003 didn't do much and 2013. shit, we can even add in 2006 if u like. so about 4, the same about we have now. and who's to say without him in 05 and 07 they wouldn't have just added another guard to fill in his role? let's stop making ginobli out to be a franchise player . yes he helped in the title runs, but he was neither a 1st or 2nd option.Thank you, James, Db, and Mois. The closest to irreplaceable he got was 2005...

[cd021]

Would have lost 05

Would have won 13
Thats a simplisting way of putting it...

He wasn't the reason that we lost the title. People are quick to jump on his 8 turnovers in game 6 when they most of them occurred during prior to the Miami run at the start of the 4th. Also, the 8 turnovers wound up accounting for 9 points.

We wouldn't have even sniffed finals without him. And we won't make the finals ,again without him making our bench better.

[cd021]

He was great in 05 might have cost us a chip single handily in 06 and 13 and was good in 07.. Manu has always been hit or miss his whole career.. Great Spur but you can't ignore all the bad that came with the good..

How exactly was 06' his fault? Averaging 21 points on 50% FG against Dallas. He came up big in that massive run in game 7. Then he hit a 3 and fouled Dirk on the other end. It went to OT. We had 5 minutes to win a playoff game at home, But Terry got hot, doesn't mean he cost us a title. I will give you the hit or miss but that's was more game to game in his prime. More often then not he came up big.

[cd021]

Without Manu? The Spurs would be a very different team. TP could be playing elsewhere. Pop and TD could be at home a couple years ago. Without Manu the history of the Spurs and the history of the NBA the last 10 years would be different.

TP would be playing elsewhere. I actually think the main reason Spurs extended him was because Duncan and Manu were willing and able to play several more seasons. We could have moved him for a lottery pick a few years ago and gotten the rebuild under way. We wound up lucking out. He became a late bloomer and really has become a top 7 player in the league.

[spurs10]

3..

1999
2003
2013..

Manu was a mess in 2003 he didn't do much and 2013.. Well uh yeah......... If out rebounding David Robinson in game 1 of 2003 and consistently being one the top 5 scorers is a mess...then yes he was a mess.

[cd021]

What the fuck does this even mean? No shit the spurs wouldn't have won without Duncan, show me one time where any one ever has tried to refute this. Show me one fuckin post where someone says manu has been more vital in our title runs. That's like saying Parker sucks because without Tim we don't win shit.

If you haven't been previously introduced to him "Skull-1" is on fast track to being STs worst poster. He is convinced that Manu is and has always been garbage that could be easily replaced. Even the slightest reference to Manu and he loses it. Ignore-list him and stay on ST. Not everyone here is like that clown.

[spurs10]

I am a dumbass? Really? Winning 2-4 titles over the last ten years without Manu is that big a stretch? (Again, 1999 and 2003 are already in the bag, so 2004-13, we win at least two and I am right, one which we woulda had in 2007... Sounds like you're the dumbass.) 1.) Absolutely.
2.) Unquestionably. 3.) Yes, it is.

[dbreiden83080]

If out rebounding David Robinson in game 1 of 2003 and consistently being one the top 5 scorers is a mess...then yes he was a mess.

He was outplayed by Stephen Jackson especially in game 6.. And 2003 was basically Tim Duncan being so out of this world great and everyone else followed..

[dbreiden83080]

How exactly was 06' his fault? Averaging 21 points on 50% FG against Dallas. He came up big in that massive run in game 7. Then he hit a 3 and fouled Dirk on the other end. It went to OT. We had 5 minutes to win a playoff game at home, But Terry got hot, doesn't mean he cost us a title. I will give you the hit or miss but that's was more game to game in his prime. More often then not he came up big.

He was told not to foul on anything going to the hoop.. What happened? That's why?

[spurs10]

He was outplayed by Stephen Jackson especially in game 6.. And 2003 was basically Tim Duncan being so out of this world great and everyone else followed.. Yeah Jax was great, but who knows without Manu...???

[Venti Quattro]

He wouldn't have been able to bail out Duncan in 2005.

[ElNono]

He was great in 2003... steal + hit a runner against KMart in NJ to seal the game (Game 5 IIRC)... He was also great against the Lakeshow that year (crossing Shaq heading to the basket).

That steal and dunk on RJ in Game 6 was also the momentum changer... some Spursfan just have little memory, tbh

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He was outplayed by Stephen Jackson especially in game 6.. And 2003 was basically Tim Duncan being so out of this world great and everyone else followed..

People that have this mindset completely get on my nerves. Let me be first to state that I am not a "Manutard". I understand Ginobili fucked up in the playoffs, but I also know that he has been detrimental to our success as an organization and I know that it would be impossible to replace his offensive threat through the years, even in 03' and 13'.

In 03, Ginobili averaged 10 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists a game, shooting 38% behind the ark. Putting that into perspective, that is better than Gary Neal shot from behind the arc this playoffs too. So you're telling me that that presence was not needed in the playoffs? Do keep in mind that championships are not solely won with star's. The role players are HUGE in winning a title, especially on the road.

Also, touching on your perspective of "Stacks played better" - Stacks also started all 24 games he played in for the Spurs during that run, and only averaged 2 more points, and less assists. So I'm inclined to say you don't know what you're talking about.

In 2005, it's laughable that anyone can say that it's even DEBATABLE that he could be replaced. Manu destroyed in the playoffs, and averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists per game. He should have been the finals MVP. If anyone even attempts to debate this year, they are flat out stupid.

In 06', it's also kind of funny. We wouldn't have even had the opportunity to even go into overtime in game seven if it weren't for Manu's ferocious comeback in game seven. He dropped 21 points on 82% shooting in the second half. He made the dumb foul, but we had the chance in overtime and failed.

In 07' we easily beat the Cavs, but do you think we would have without the person running our bench? This was our easiest year, but there's no way Barry or Finley could have put up the numbers he did. 17 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists per game... that's a tough thing to replace, but you don't put that into account do you?

Alas 2013, the finals Manu "screwed up" so bad. Do you remember what happened before the playoffs? Ginobili was injured and our backcourt was horrid. Our bench lost us about 7 or 8 games out of 11 towards the end of the year. Is there a coincidence that we happened to play a SHIT ton better with Manu returned?

Manu averaged 5 assists a game during the playoffs this past year. He also averaged 12 points and 4 rebounds. There was absolutely noone (other than MAYBE T-Mac MAYBE) that could have taken his place. We wouldn't have gotten past the Lakers if he didn't play, we couldn't even beat the fucking Suns when he wasn't playing at the end of the year. We wouldn't have gotten past GS. We sure as HELL wouldn't have gotten past Memphis... and it's safe to say even if somehow our bench kept up against Miami, which it wouldn't have, we would have lost in six because those 24 points and 10 assists WERE that damn important.

You fans are so simple-minded. Our third option was THAT important. Who do you expect us to replace him with? Devin Brown? Hedo Turkoglu? Josh Howard? He took a MAJOR paycut through his prime years and played a role on the bench JUST because he loved this team. JUST because he knew as long as Tim Duncan would be around, they could do something special (stated this on an interview).

Even when he played bad in 13, we don't go nearly as far without him. To say so is ignorant. Joseph would not have been able to give positive results on the floor - that's why Pop didn't play him. T-Mac couldn't even hit a damn shot. Stop acting like we don't need a player that's going in the HOF and is widely regarded as a top 5 shooting guard of the past decade. It's ignorant and makes Spurs fan look stupid as fuck.

[Skull-1]

People that have this mindset completely get on my nerves. Let me be first to state that I am not a "Manutard". I understand Ginobili fucked up in the playoffs, but I also know that he has been detrimental to our success as an organization...

You can say that again.

[Skull-1]

Thats a simplisting way of putting it...

He wasn't the reason that we lost the title. People are quick to jump on his 8 turnovers in game 6 when they most of them occurred during prior to the Miami run at the start of the 4th. Also, the 8 turnovers wound up accounting for 9 points.
Oh that tired canard again. You really are moronic. Nine points for Miami when one point was the difference between a title and an overtime loss. Never mind all the points WE couldn't score because of those turnovers.

You are stupid.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

You can say that again.

Okay focus on one part that I mis-typed obviously, and ignore the rest. That's why nobody takes your opinion up here serious along with the rest of the people that shit on Ginobili. It's obvious you have not watched the Spurs in the past. Because there's no way that somebody that has would give a player that has given us so much would get treated so poorly unless you became a fan of any year prior to 2012.

Even when people shit on Duncan in 11' because of his bad performances in the year, it was wrong. They are legends. The least we can do is give them the benefit of the doubt.

But to say we would win just as many titles, or even LOL more, is fucking stupid. GTFO with that dumbass shit.

[Skull-1]

Okay focus on one part that I mis-typed obviously, and ignore the rest. That's why nobody takes your opinion up here serious along with the rest of the people that shit on Ginobili. It's obvious you have not watched the Spurs in the past. Because there's no way that somebody that has would give a player that has given us so much would get treated so poorly unless you became a fan of any year prior to 2012.

Even when people shit on Duncan in 11' because of his bad performances in the year, it was wrong. They are legends. The least we can do is give them the benefit of the doubt.

But to say we would win just as many titles, or even LOL more, is fucking stupid. GTFO with that dumbass shit.


Whatever, tard. His attitude flat out sucks. He is not the warrior I remember him to be.

Guy has no fire. Is too old and unreliable to play his style. Refuses to adjust to what he can or cannot do anymore. Goes flat out braindead at the most critical moments. Then shrugs and says he did "so so".

YOU gtfo, blind homer.

Without Manu we still get 1999, 2003, 2007, probably 2006 and 2013. And perhaps even another in there by not relying on a fragile player we can't count on in the playoffs because he gets hurt all the time.

[xmas1997]

People that have this mindset completely get on my nerves. Let me be first to state that I am not a "Manutard". I understand Ginobili fucked up in the playoffs, but I also know that he has been detrimental to our success as an organization and I know that it would be impossible to replace his offensive threat through the years, even in 03' and 13'.

In 03, Ginobili averaged 10 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists a game, shooting 38% behind the ark. Putting that into perspective, that is better than Gary Neal shot from behind the arc this playoffs too. So you're telling me that that presence was not needed in the playoffs? Do keep in mind that championships are not solely won with star's. The role players are HUGE in winning a title, especially on the road.

Also, touching on your perspective of "Stacks played better" - Stacks also started all 24 games he played in for the Spurs during that run, and only averaged 2 more points, and less assists. So I'm inclined to say you don't know what you're talking about.

In 2005, it's laughable that anyone can say that it's even DEBATABLE that he could be replaced. Manu destroyed in the playoffs, and averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists per game. He should have been the finals MVP. If anyone even attempts to debate this year, they are flat out stupid.

In 06', it's also kind of funny. We wouldn't have even had the opportunity to even go into overtime in game seven if it weren't for Manu's ferocious comeback in game seven. He dropped 21 points on 82% shooting in the second half. He made the dumb foul, but we had the chance in overtime and failed.

In 07' we easily beat the Cavs, but do you think we would have without the person running our bench? This was our easiest year, but there's no way Barry or Finley could have put up the numbers he did. 17 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists per game... that's a tough thing to replace, but you don't put that into account do you?

Alas 2013, the finals Manu "screwed up" so bad. Do you remember what happened before the playoffs? Ginobili was injured and our backcourt was horrid. Our bench lost us about 7 or 8 games out of 11 towards the end of the year. Is there a coincidence that we happened to play a SHIT ton better with Manu returned?

Manu averaged 5 assists a game during the playoffs this past year. He also averaged 12 points and 4 rebounds. There was absolutely noone (other than MAYBE T-Mac MAYBE) that could have taken his place. We wouldn't have gotten past the Lakers if he didn't play, we couldn't even beat the fucking Suns when he wasn't playing at the end of the year. We wouldn't have gotten past GS. We sure as HELL wouldn't have gotten past Memphis... and it's safe to say even if somehow our bench kept up against Miami, which it wouldn't have, we would have lost in six because those 24 points and 10 assists WERE that damn important.

You fans are so simple-minded. Our third option was THAT important. Who do you expect us to replace him with? Devin Brown? Hedo Turkoglu? Josh Howard? He took a MAJOR paycut through his prime years and played a role on the bench JUST because he loved this team. JUST because he knew as long as Tim Duncan would be around, they could do something special (stated this on an interview).

Even when he played bad in 13, we don't go nearly as far without him. To say so is ignorant. Joseph would not have been able to give positive results on the floor - that's why Pop didn't play him. T-Mac couldn't even hit a damn shot. Stop acting like we don't need a player that's going in the HOF and is widely regarded as a top 5 shooting guard of the past decade. It's ignorant and makes Spurs fan look stupid as fuck.

I commend you on your thorough and rational and unbiased post. You put a lot of thought and data into this.
Only a total retarded simple minded idiot could dispute this, but unfortunately they are out there composing their ignorant obsessive drivel even as I write this.
No doubt you will see them right after you post, but they cannot refute the absolute facts with their hate.

Thankfully as long as they continue to post their fictitious hateful BS, they will be countered by the real facts and data to make them look like the fools they are!

[cd021]

He was told not to foul on anything going to the hoop.. What happened? That's why?

Like I said we had 5 minutes of OT at home to win a game 7. This, after trailing by as much as 25 points. He got us to that point we lost the game by being out played. Boiling it down to "he fouled Dirk" and we lost because of it is just not true.

[cd021]

:lol at Skull-1
still quoting me even when I ignore listed you, clown.

[Skull-1]

:lol at Skull-1
still quoting me even when I ignore listed you, clown.
:lol At cd021 (complete dumbazz 021).


Still trying to convince the world you ignored me when you didn't, moron. :lol

:rollinThat you believe I care either way.

That you think I quote you for any reason other than to point out to the rest of the forum how stupid you are. :lmao

[xmas1997]

What we need up here is the definitions of trolls that DMC found and posted downstairs.

[AchillesHeel]

Probably 5 instead of 4.

If we didn't have Manu, we'd have a different roster and someone would be replacing him, depends on who's in his place.

03 we still win with Timmy carrying the whole team, 05 yeah Manu was great, 07 was mostly about Parker and Duncan, especially the Finals.

apart from 05, Manu really wasn't that big with the numbers in the playoffs, he averaged 9 ppg in 03...05 really is the only year I'd say we wouldn't win without him, but we'd win in 2013 with Manu injuring himself after Game 5 and not being able to play in Game 6.

Seriously, we'd at minimum win 3 titles, 99 Manu wasn't on the team, 03 Manu was a role player with little impact, 05 Manu had his best run, 07 Manu was decent but Parker and Duncan were just that much better and we had an easy run that year.

[spurs10]

Interesting all these titles we would have won without Manu! Do you realize how stupid that sounds? If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle!!