Snowden Just Needs to Stop Now....

[Nbadan]

OK....we get it...the Bush administration spyed on everybody..now you may just being a little vindictive?....the NSA has been doing what conspiracy theorists have said they been doing for years....big surprise...


Source: Guardian UK
The NSA Has Been Monitoring The Phone Calls Of 35 World Leaders


The National Security Agency monitored the phone conversations of 35 world leaders after being given the numbers by an official in another US government department, according to a classified document provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The confidential memo reveals that the NSA encourages senior officials in its "customer" departments, such the White House, State and the Pentagon, to share their "Rolodexes" so the agency can add the phone numbers of leading foreign politicians to their surveillance systems.

The document notes that one unnamed US official handed over 200 numbers, including those of the 35 world leaders, none of whom is named. These were immediately "tasked" for monitoring by the NSA.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-phone-calls-world-leaders-2013-10

According to NSA whistle blower Russ Tice, the NSA had been monitoring Obama since 2004 when Condoleezza Rice was secretary of state and Donald Rumsfeld was in his final months as defense secretary.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nice. You decry something that is damaging your Dem POTUS and in the same post deflect blame to the previous GOP POTUS. You shill with an purpose, Dan.

[Nbadan]

Snowden's revelations don't hurt Obama..all this was in 2006....and in a tragic way, I am defending the Bush Administration....we have suspected for years that the government has been spying on foreign leaders...Snowden is just telling them how...at what point does it become treason?

[TSA]

Snowden's revelations don't hurt Obama..all this was in 2006....and in a tragic way, I am defending the Bush Administration....we have suspected for years that the government has been spying on foreign leaders...Snowden is just telling them how...at what point does it become treason?

Hang yourself traitor.

[Rogue]

agree with dan. Snowden is now gradually transforming himself from a hero into an asshole, imho

[Nbadan]

Hang yourself traitor.

:cry

[m>s]

wait so it's your stance that telling the world the truth is a bad thing dude? i don't want to live in a surveillance world run by central bankers, if you're a communist and you're down with that then you're our mortal enemy. the only good communist is a dead communist, we need to go back to Nuremberg and get it right this time.

[Nbadan]

wait so it's your stance that telling the world the truth is a bad thing dude? i don't want to live in a surveillance world run by central bankers, if you're a communist and you're down with that then you're our mortal enemy. the only good communist is a dead communist, we need to go back to Nuremberg and get it right this time.

Settle down Francis...spying ain't cool, but we have enough out there to hang the people responsible already...but I guess we will have to let history judge these people because there is no political motivation to do so from the public in the courts...

[velik_m]

Settle down Francis...spying ain't cool, but we have enough out there to hang the people responsible already...but I guess we will have to let history judge these people because there is no political motivation to do so from the public in the courts...

So when will this "hanging" commence? Because so far you did nothing.

[m>s]

Settle down Francis...spying ain't cool, but we have enough out there to hang the people responsible already...but I guess we will have to let history judge these people because there is no political motivation to do so from the public in the courts...

it's not just a little harmless spying dude, this is a rabid out of control technocracy arming up to the teeth against its own people while causing death and destruction all over the globe. these assholes must be stopped at any and all costs.

[Nbadan]

it's not just a little harmless spying dude, this is a rabid out of control technocracy arming up to the teeth against its own people while causing death and destruction all over the globe. these assholes must be stopped at any and all costs.

people are standing up to it all over the globe..the Arab uprisings...the transformation of South and Central America puppet governments..

the only place where people seem pacified is the US....

[Winehole23]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/24/the-national-security-agency-narcissism-and-nationalism.html

[Winehole23]

So why the uproar? I think it’s partly because of a cultural gap between Europe and the US. Privacy is much more sacrosanct on the European continent than in the US or Britain – and in Germany undergirded by the memory of the Stasi’s surveillance. Merkel grew up in that climate in East Germany and to find the US doing what the Soviet client state once did is, well, almost as stunning as seeing the US use Soviet military installations to torture prisoners using Communist torture techniques.http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/24/why-do-we-spy-on-our-allies/

[SA210]

That Snowden guy is a real hero, and Obama is pretty butthurt about him. It's got some Obama supporters butthurt too. Glad he has been able to evade the corrupt White House for the time being. Not sure how long his right to freedom and safety will last..the tyrannical Obama White House is definitely trying to figure out how to murder or throw him in a secret prison without due process which would include torture. Still wondering why fake liberals never said anything about the conditions THIS administration put Bradley Manning through while they continued to take his freedoms away in Bush's name..for exposing war crimes, while the actual war criminals go free (Obama included). He/She too is a hero.

[AntiChrist]

Maybe they'll make a movie about him that no one will go see.

[cheguevara]

:lmao Putin at first promised he would not harbor snowden if he keeps releasing info. Then Snowden showed Putin ALL the info he has on the US. Putin then welcomes Snowden into Russia with open arms and zero conditions. :lol

Snowden. One of the biggest american patriots since Paul Revere

[SA210]

This che fella should be in the running for political poster of the year tbh lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Snowden's revelations don't hurt Obama..all this was in 2006....and in a tragic way, I am defending the Bush Administration....we have suspected for years that the government has been spying on foreign leaders...Snowden is just telling them how...at what point does it become treason?

You cannot be so blind to realize that it is Obama that is getting called by the French President and the German Chancellor. I would say it is at the point where we should not be spying on our allies leaders at all. Suspect and confirmation are two completely different things. Now you are just being obtuse.

Our spying policy is fucked up and I am glad that it is being outed. The NSa is a relic of the cold war and needs to be dismantled along with other Cold War security apparatus.

[SA210]

"StopWatching.us is a coalition of more than 100 public advocacy organizations and companies from across the political spectrum. Join the movement at https://rally.stopwatching.us. This video harnesses the voices of celebrities, activists, legal experts, and other prominent figures in speaking out against mass surveillance by the NSA. Please share widely to help us spread the message that we will not stand for the dragnet surveillance of our communications.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is a nonprofit civil liberties law and advocacy center that has been fighting the NSA's unconstitutional spying for years. Learn more at https://eff.org."


Stop Watching Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGmiw_rrNxk

[boutons_deux]

"StopWatching.us is a coalition of more than 100 public advocacy organizations and companies from across the political spectrum. Join the movement at https://rally.stopwatching.us. This video harnesses the voices of celebrities, activists, legal experts, and other prominent figures in speaking out against mass surveillance by the NSA. Please share widely to help us spread the message that we will not stand for the dragnet surveillance of our communications.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is a nonprofit civil liberties law and advocacy center that has been fighting the NSA's unconstitutional spying for years. Learn more at https://eff.org."


Stop Watching Us



worthy goal but the militarized police/NatSec surveillance state is unstoppable, irreversible, with no effective oversight by Congress (eg: Clapper outright felony lying to Congress then outed by Snowden, then got off with an "error" rather than prison).

Another Member Of Congress Calls Congressional Oversight Of The NSA An Utter Farce
http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/25/another-member-of-congress-calls-congressional-oversight-of-the-nsa-an-utter-farce/ (http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/25/another-member-of-congress-calls-congressional-oversight-of-the-nsa-an-utter-farce/)

[ElNono]

Maybe they'll make a movie about him that no one will go see.

:lol

[boutons_deux]

here's how the NSA sees press freedom as its enemy

As Europe erupts over US spying, NSA chief says government must stop media

General Keith Alexander, actually demanded (http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2013/10/nsa-chief-stop-reporters-selling-spy-documents-175896.html) Thursday that the reporting being done by newspapers around the world on this secret surveillance system be halted (Techdirt has the full video here (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131024/18093325010/keith-alexander-says-us-govt-needs-to-figure-out-way-to-stop-journalists-reporting-snowden-leaks.shtml)):

The head of the embattled National Security Agency, Gen Keith Alexander, is accusing journalists of "selling" his agency's documents and is calling for an end to the steady stream of public disclosures of secrets snatched by former contractor Edward Snowden.

"I think it's wrong that that newspaper reporters have all these documents, the 50,000 – whatever they have and are selling them and giving them out as if these – you know it just doesn't make sense," Alexander said in an interview with the Defense Department's "Armed With Science" blog.

"We ought to come up with a way of stopping it. I don't know how to do that. That's more of the courts and the policy-makers but, from my perspective, it's wrong to allow this to go on," the NSA director declared. [My italics]


There are 25,000 employees of the NSA (and many tens of thousands more who work for private contracts assigned to the agency). Maybe one of them can tell The General about this thing called "the first amendment" (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0403_0713_ZS.html).

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/25/europe-erupts-nsa-spying-chief-government

As I've always said, the FBI/NSA/CIA are simply beyond the law and beyond oversight, and they ALL know it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

doing whatever it takes to extend his assylum

[boutons_deux]

N.S.A. PROMISES TO STOP GETTING CAUGHT SPYING ON ALLIES


http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/nsa-keith-alexander-580.jpg

Responding to the firestorm of controversy over its spying on European allies, the head of the National Security Agency said today it would do everything in its power to avoid being caught doing it in the future.

“There are two important jobs for every spy agency: spying on people and avoiding detection,” said the N.S.A. chief General Keith Alexander. “Unfortunately, at the N.S.A. we have only done the first job well.”

“We have abused the trust of some of our closest allies,” he said. “And none of this would have happened if they hadn’t found out.”

General Alexander said that the agency was instituting strict new practices that amounted to “a zero-tolerance policy on getting caught.”

“I had a meeting with my top people today and said, ‘I want you to put the same energy you put into spying on Germany, France, and Spain into keeping them from figuring out what we’re up to,’ ” he said. “ ‘Anything less than that will be unacceptable.’ ”

General Alexander also offered a heartfelt apology to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a prime target of the agency’s eavesdropping. “I know how upsetting it must be for you to know that your closest ally has been listening in on your phone conversations for the past eleven years,” he said. “I give you my solemn promise that in the future you won’t know.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/10/nsa-promises-to-stop-getting-caught-spying-on-allies.html?utm_source=tny&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=borowitz&mbid=nl_Borowitz%20(189)

[TSA]

NSA hacks Google/Yahoo

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_t witter_washingtonpost

[AntiChrist]

OK....we get it...the Bush administration spyed on everybody..now you may just being a little vindictive?....the NSA has been doing what conspiracy theorists have said they been doing for years....big surprise...




:cry Please stop, Snowden! There's a Dem. in the WH. :cry

[boutons_deux]

DHS and NSA Threaten to Sue Man for Selling "Department of Homeland Stupidity" T-Shirts and Coffee Mugs!


http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/nsa_alternet.png


The Department of Homeland Security and National Security Agency threatened to sue a novelty store owner who sells "Department of Homeland Stupidity" coffee cups and T-shirts with the slogan: "The NSA: The only part of government that actually listens."

In response, Dan McCall sued the NSA and DHS on constitutional grounds, in Federal Court.

McCall operates the website LibertyManiacs.com. He has (nonparty) Zazzle.com -which prints images provided by customers onto products - print his images onto the items he sells.

McCall has a "virtual storefront" on the Zazzle website, and his own website redirects traffic to Zazzle "so that people wishing to express their own opinions by purchasing and displaying these items may easily do so," McCall says in the complaint.

http://www.alternet.org/dhs-and-nsa-threaten-sue-man-selling-department-homeland-stupidity-t-shirts-and-coffee-mugs?akid=11095.187590.Wp5xQs&rd=1&src=newsletter917241&t=11

[Nbadan]

Another Member Of Congress Calls Congressional Oversight Of The NSA An Utter Farce

There is the real shortfall in the whole NSA spying story....where was the Congressional oversight? Why aren't we seeing members of the oversight committee being subpenaed and hung out to dry....maybe....well .....maybe its because it's much less politically painful to blame Obama

[Nbadan]

You cannot be so blind to realize that it is Obama that is getting called by the French President and the German Chancellor. I would say it is at the point where we should not be spying on our allies leaders at all. Suspect and confirmation are two completely different things. Now you are just being obtuse.


There is zero proof that Obama authorized or was even aware of the spying on other world leaders going on...that said, let's be serious....have you never seen a James Bond movie?...where did you grow up?

"I'm shocked -- shocked -- to find that gambling is going on in here!" Renault says, at which point, of course, he's approached by a croupier who hands him a wad of cash. "Your winnings, sir." "Oh, thank you very much."


Asked about spying on the heads of foreign governments, Clapper called such monitoring of "leadership intentions" a "hardy perennial" of the intelligence trade and said it was one of the first things he learned in intelligence school back in 1963. He also answered "absolutely" when asked if US allies had spied on the states.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57609933-38/intelligence-chief-clapper-cites-casablanca-in-dismissing-merkel-mess/

[TSA]

^^^^
Traitor

[Nbadan]

^^^^
Traitor

Go back to Darrin.....and I thought you were gonna give up the TSA avatar?

[TSA]

Go back to Darrin.....and I thought you were gonna give up the TSA avatar?

I am not Darrin. This country is still in distress and I will fly the flag upside down proudly.

[Clipper Nation]

There is the real shortfall in the whole NSA spying story....where was the Congressional oversight? Why aren't we seeing members of the oversight committee being subpenaed and hung out to dry....maybe....well .....maybe its because it's much less politically painful to blame Obama

You just said in the OP that "the Bush Administration was spying on everybody," but now you're whining about the Obama administration having to take responsibility for the NSA's controversies.... could you be a bigger partisan hack?

[Nbadan]

You just said in the OP that "the Bush Administration was spying on everybody," but now you're whining about the Obama administration having to take responsibility for the NSA's controversies.... could you be a bigger partisan hack?

obama is taking responsibility for Dubya's NSA fuckups..that's what grown ups do....talk about a partisan hack...

[Winehole23]

Google has spent months and millions of dollars encrypting email, search queries and other information flowing among its data centers worldwide. Facebook (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/facebook_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org)’s chief executive said at a conference this fall that the government “blew it.” And though it has not been announced publicly, Twitter (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/twitter/index.html?inline=nyt-org) plans to set up new types of encryption to protect messages from snoops.

It is all reaction to reports of how far the government has gone in spying on Internet users, sneaking around tech companies to tap into their systems without their knowledge or cooperation.


What began as a public relations predicament for America’s technology companies has evolved into a moral and business crisis that threatens the foundation of their businesses, which rests on consumers and companies trusting them with their digital lives.
So they are pushing back in various ways — from cosmetic tactics like publishing the numbers of government requests they receive (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/17/technology/company-data-requests.html) to political ones including tense conversations with officials behind closed doors. And companies are building technical fortresses intended to make the private information in which they trade inaccessible to the government and other suspected spies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/technology/angry-over-us-surveillance-tech-giants-bolster-defenses.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Winehole23]

Yet even as they take measures against government collection of personal information, their business models rely on collecting that same data, largely to sell personalized ads. So no matter the steps they take, as long as they remain ad companies, they will be gathering a trove of information that will prove tempting to law enforcement and spies.

[boutons_deux]

I wonder when the IRS will be able to tap all the data pipes, targeting the corps and wealthy assholes evading taxes, financial sector fraud?

[Nbadan]

In 2009, Ed Snowden said leakers “should be shot.” Then he became one
In Internet chat, Snowden opined on travel, short-selling—and national security.


< TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
< TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/3/

[Nbadan]

Snowden Asks U.S. to Stop Treating Him Like a Traitor
By ALISON SMALE
Published: November 1, 2013


BERLIN — Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive American security contractor granted temporary asylum by Russia, has appealed to Washington to stop treating him like a traitor for revealing that the United States has been eavesdropping on its allies, a German politician who met with Mr. Snowden said on Friday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/world/europe/snowden-appeals-to-us-for-clemency.html

Winter in Russia isn't very fun...

[SA210]

He shouldn't have to be there for doing a Patriotic thing for the people and exposing the real traitors in Washington.

[Nbadan]

He shouldn't have to be there for doing a Patriotic thing for the people and exposing the real traitors in Washington.

He might have been a hero when he released the info on the domestic spying, but now you got to wonder if Putin is pulling his strings...countries spy on other countries...big surprise....

[SA210]

He might have been a hero when he released the info on the domestic spying, but now you got to wonder if Putin is pulling his strings...countries spy on other countries...big surprise....

I don't doubt Putin trying to do that, but he also should not have been treated like a traitor to begin with. Obama could have backed up his own words from the past about protecting whistle blowers..but instead he takes them down. Really sad, honestly. I really don't think that's what America should be about. Like Manning, he should not be in prison. It'd be great if Obama pardoned him, but I have no confidence in that, at all.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is the real shortfall in the whole NSA spying story....where was the Congressional oversight? Why aren't we seeing members of the oversight committee being subpenaed and hung out to dry....maybe....well .....maybe its because it's much less politically painful to blame Obama

The POTUS is the head of the federal bureaucracy which includes the NSA. It's his responsibility. Dear lord you are a shill as bad as the GOP bots around here.

[Nbadan]

I don't doubt Putin trying to do that, but he also should not have been treated like a traitor to begin with. Obama could have backed up his own words from the past about protecting whistle blowers..but instead he takes them down. Really sad, honestly. I really don't think that's what America should be about. Like Manning, he should not be in prison. It'd be great if Obama pardoned him, but I have no confidence in that, at all.

In time perhaps Snowden and Bradley can be seen as heroes, but the present is never kind to whistle-blowers...and Snowden took these files to Russia where they are in no doubt now possessed by the KGB

[SA210]

In time perhaps Snowden and Bradley can be seen as heroes, but the present is never kind to whistle-blowers...and Snowden took these files to Russia where they are in no doubt now possessed by the KGB

He's in Russia bc his own "free" country (well the govt) wants his head for him doing what was right. Wouldnt even be an issue if Dems grew a spine instead of acting like neocons on this and other issues.

[Nbadan]

The POTUS is the head of the federal bureaucracy which includes the NSA. It's his responsibility. Dear lord you are a shill as bad as the GOP bots around here.

These weren't his policies...these were policies put into place by the Bush Administration under its 'terrorism and national security' cloke...it's quite plausible that Obama didn't know the full extent of the domestic spying going on..especially since much of it occurred circa 2006, well before Obama..if it occurred under Obama one could say that it was just a continuation of business as usual....the only difference between you and I is that I am willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt...

Every time you call me a shill you get spanked...you would think you would get tired of it...

[Nbadan]

He's in Russia bc his own "free" country (well the govt) wants his head for him doing what was right. Wouldnt even be an issue if Dems grew a spine instead of acting like neocons on this and other issues.

If anything Bradley is the hero because he whistle-blew, but he didn't flee to another country....he stayed here and yeah, he suffered, some would say was tortured for staying...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

These weren't his policies...these were policies put into place by the Bush Administration under its 'terrorism and national security' cloke...it's quite plausible that Obama didn't know the full extent of the domestic spying going on..especially since much of it occurred circa 2006, well before Obama..if it occurred under Obama one could say that it was just a continuation of business as usual....the only difference between you and I is that I am willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt...

Every time you call me a shill you get spanked...you would think you would get tired of it...

Everytime you get called a shill you make some characterization of 'spanking' or the like but that is about the extent of it.

And of course you are going to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. You are a blatant partisan. Nevermind that he ran on a platform of transparency and freedom for the common man. Nevermind that he doubled down on policies that were everything but those promises.

[SA210]

If anything Bradley is the hero because he whistle-blew, but he didn't flee to another country....he stayed here and yeah, he suffered, some would say was tortured for staying...

It was torture, I give that dude a lot of credit. But also look at the years he's gonna be doing. Crazy. They want Snowden's head on a stick. Why wouldn't he flee? He saw what they did to Manning, what they did to Aaron Swartz..all the bogus charges they were putting on him to shut him up which resulted in his committing suicide (or so we are told), all the other whistle blowers and Occupy protesters they have gone after.

[Nbadan]

Everytime you get called a shill you make some characterization of 'spanking' or the like but that is about the extent of it.

And of course you are going to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. You are a blatant partisan. Nevermind that he ran on a platform of transparency and freedom for the common man. Nevermind that he doubled down on policies that were everything but those promises.

blah, blah, blah....this administration is 10,000 times more transparent than the last administration...to expect government to be completely transparent is either naive, for which I have no time, or incompetent, for which I have no patience...

[Nbadan]

It was torture, I give that dude a lot of credit. But also look at the years he's gonna be doing. Crazy. They want Snowden's head on a stick. Why wouldn't he flee? He saw what they did to Manning, what they did to Aaron Swartz..all the bogus charges they were putting on him to shut him up which resulted in his committing suicide (or so we are told), all the other whistle blowers and Occupy protesters they have gone after.

True...but you fight the enemy from within..if enough people did that things would change....but too many people buy the pundit lies and propaganda...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

blah, blah, blah....this administration is 10,000 times more transparent than the last administration...to expect government to be completely transparent is either naive, for which I have no time, or incompetent, for which I have no patience...

No, they are 46,012 times less transparent.

Believing made up bullshit numbers is just stupid.

What government programs are more transparent now?

He spies on US citizens. Had to be harangued for over a year to release anything regarding the court order that permitted it. He has gone after whistleblowers with a vengeance and went so far as to sick the DoJ on the AP because of it. He uses his bureaucracy as a tool to push his political agenda like with the IRS and then he takes the opposite approach of a great Dem POTUS in Truman and just shirks responsibility for anything.

Obama tries to control the narrative. He is adversarial with most of the press but has select columnists almost all of them Dems that he gives access to.

People like to compare him to Bush but in my eyes he is more like Nixon.

[Nbadan]

He uses his bureaucracy as a tool to push his political agenda like with the IRS and then he takes the opposite approach of a great Dem POTUS in Truman and just shirks responsibility for anything.

I never took you for a wing-nut FL, but there you are....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I never took you for a wing-nut FL, but there you are....

Hey if so called 'liberals' are calling me a right winger and so called 'conservatives' are calling me communists then I think I have to be doing something right.

You giving up on arguing on merit two posts gone now has been noted.

Instead you have resorted to just leaving it all on digs of 'stupid,' 'incompetent,' and 'wing nut.' Now don't get me wrong, often such labels are justified but you should at least attempt to justify them or you just seem petulant.

As for the blanket dismissal, the IRS patsy was hung out to dry and left in disgrace because rules were broken. Its documented when the head was notified of the activities just as it was noted that he omitted such information not once but twice in congressional hearings regarding 501(c)(4) regulations.

You just granted the rest of it. I say he is lucky that Hillary took one for the team for him and added her name to Obama's patsies.

[m>s]

snowden should be pardoned but that wouldn't stop the CIA, FBI, military industrial complex, NSA, etc from assassinating him if he tried to come back

[Nbadan]

Hey if so called 'liberals' are calling me a right winger and so called 'conservatives' are calling me communists then I think I have to be doing something right.

You giving up on arguing on merit two posts gone now has been noted.

Instead you have resorted to just leaving it all on digs of 'stupid,' 'incompetent,' and 'wing nut.' Now don't get me wrong, often such labels are justified but you should at least attempt to justify them or you just seem petulant.

As for the blanket dismissal, the IRS patsy was hung out to dry and left in disgrace because rules were broken. Its documented when the head was notified of the activities just as it was noted that he omitted such information not once but twice in congressional hearings regarding 501(c)(4) regulations.

You just granted the rest of it. I say he is lucky that Hillary took one for the team for him and added her name to Obama's patsies.

Nah your an idiot, because your an idiot...Lois Lerner was a bush appointee..she had no reason to cover up for Obama...The IRS was actually doing its job...when a group applies for tax exempt status, its application is suppose to be scrutinized. None of those tea party groups were denied 501(c)4, although they should have, tea party groups are NOT social welfare organizations, they engage in POLITICAL work. The real scandal is that there are political activist groups filing for and getting tax exempt status.

[Nbadan]

snowden should be pardoned but that wouldn't stop the CIA, FBI, military industrial complex, NSA, etc from assassinating him if he tried to come back

What's to stop them now?

[m>s]

What's to stop them now?

big daddy Putin will pimp slap the piss out of any operatives we try to send into russia. it hasn't happened yet because it probably never will. the US isn't untouchable, we'll find that out soon if we decide to hit Iran. it'll be the end of this current government at the very least.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nah your an idiot, because your an idiot...Lois Lerner was a bush appointee..she had no reason to cover up for Obama...The IRS was actually doing its job...when a group applies for tax exempt status, its application is suppose to be scrutinized. None of those tea party groups were denied 501(c)4, although they should have, tea party groups are NOT social welfare organizations, they engage in POLITICAL work. The real scandal is that there are political activist groups filing for and getting tax exempt status.

Steve Miller was and cover him he did. He was the one speaking at the congressional hearings in question.

And again, as has been stated repeatedly, rules were broken. The question is whether or not the mistakes were politically motivated.

[Nbadan]

Steve miller was the band...Steven Miller was the one giving congressional testimony...somehow I don't think any "aggrieved" 501(c)4 applicants are going to come forward.

It serves the right wing's interest to brand the IRS as a demon which is the puppet of the Dems.

Overlooked in all of this false hysteria is the fact that there are probably few, if any, Tea Party organizations or other politically conservative organizations which serve legitimate social welfare purposes and which were harassed or put on hold by the IRS in their quest for 501(c)4 recognition.

[Clipper Nation]

blah, blah, blah....this administration is 10,000 times more transparent than the last administration...
:lmao No they're not, they lie and backtrack just as much as any other administration, it's just all okay to you because of the "(D)" next to Obama's name....

[Nbadan]

:lmao No they're not, they lie and backtrack just as much as any other administration, it's just all okay to you because of the "(D)" next to Obama's name....

Prove it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Steve miller was the band...Steven Miller was the one giving congressional testimony...somehow I don't think any "aggrieved" 501(c)4 applicants are going to come forward.

It serves the right wing's interest to brand the IRS as a demon which is the puppet of the Dems.

Overlooked in all of this false hysteria is the fact that there are probably few, if any, Tea Party organizations or other politically conservative organizations which serve legitimate social welfare purposes and which were harassed or put on hold by the IRS in their quest for 501(c)4 recognition.

Thanks for posting your google information and the party line. Steve Miller did cover for Obama in congressional hearings where he did omit information regarding this particular oversight when asked about it directly. We know when he knew and we know what he told Congress. You have granted all of that.

You were the one talking about where was the oversight in all of this.

Now you are trying to make it seem like no one was harmed, but my google search came up with 5 groups that came forward and said they had been denied for periods over 3 years. It was so hard to find.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/tea-party-groups-speak-out-against-the-irs-folks-this-is-bad/

And lets look at what the IRS says meets the requirements rather than just look to your self serving cherry picked phrase of 'social welfare' which you add a tagline of 'legitimate:'

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Other-Non-Profits/Types-of-Organizations-Exempt-under-Section-501%28c%29%284%29


Homeowners associations and volunteer fire companies may be recognized as exempt as social welfare organizations if they meet the requirements for exemption. Organizations that engage in substantial lobbying activities sometimes also are classified as social welfare organizations.

It is what it is. Is there any evidence of dem superPACs and PACs having similar scrutiny? Were there or were there not rules broken regarding the review of these groups applications?

To me it seems pretty simple. Obama led the charge in getting his PACs and whatnot set up on the grassroots level. It's a big reason why he has been so successful. When the opposition tries and does the same he tries to gum up the works a bit. It's a classic play especially coming from a guy who got his start in Chicago where the 'rigging the bureaucracy' playbook was written.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Prove it.

Well we know that Miller left out information on his agency's actions regarding the application processes of PAC. We know that he has hammered whistleblowers to the wall and even tried to sic the DoJ on the AP.

Bush did some scummy shit but at least when he was outed because of Abu Garib he didn't send out a patsy to take the fall. His eating all of that type shit is a big reason why he has a reputation of being as awful a POTUS as he does. He took responsibility for the shit he got outed for.

If that was Obama he would have put it on one of the JCoS or someone in the DoD because that is what he does.

[Clipper Nation]

Prove it.
It's proven just about every time this administration makes a statement, tbh :lol

[Nbadan]

Toby Marie Walker president of the Waco Tea Party told of her group’s IRS struggles, applying for 501(c)(4) status in 2010 and not hearing back until February 2012 when the group was asked about relationships with public officials and candidates, lists of volunteers and all the news stories in which the group had been mentioned. She said the request was so onerous that if they had complied with all of the demands, the group would have needed a “U-haul truck of about 20 feet.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/tea-party-groups-speak-out-against-the-irs-folks-this-is-bad/#ixzz2jTKDun00

One tea party organization complaining because they were mildly inconvenienced to prove they were what they said they were is not a scandal...no matter how hard you make it out to be..

[Nbadan]

It is what it is. Is there any evidence of dem superPACs and PACs having similar scrutiny? Were there or were there not rules broken regarding the review of these groups applications?

Well, at least you've modified yourself to admitting that 'only rules were broken' and not law...but your still wrong...



At the hearing, outgoing acting IRS commissioner Steve Miller repeatedly objected to the use of the word “targeting.” He said the so-called “be on the lookout” (BOLO) list was an “inappropriate” organizational tool or “shortcut” that IRS staff used to find potential political cases. Miller claimed the tea party groups would have be subjected to extra scrutiny regardless of the BOLO list.

“If the targeting wasn’t targeting, if the targeting wasn’t based on philosophy, how come only conservatives got snagged?” Roskam confidently asked.

“They didn’t, sir,” Miller responded. “Organizations of all walks and all persuasions were pulled in. That’s shown by the fact that only 70 of the 300 organizations were tea party organizations, of the ones that were looked at by TIGTA (Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration).”

-snip-

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/18/republican-accidentally-debunks-gop-narrative-at-irs-hearing/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/18/republican-accidentally-debunks-gop-narrative-at-irs-hearing/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, at least you've modified yourself to admitting that 'only rules were broken' and not law...but your still wrong...



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/18/republican-accidentally-debunks-gop-narrative-at-irs-hearing/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/18/republican-accidentally-debunks-gop-narrative-at-irs-hearing/

Were those 230 others left leaning political organizations? Were rules broken regarding the 230 others? That is what I asked.

This is after the fact testimony too. You have granted so far that.

1) Obama is much more punitive on whistleblowers
2) He went after the AP using the Justice Department to go after whistle blowers.
3) His IRS broke rules which in turn inhibited the application process for his political opponents PACs
4) His political appointee omitted information he was known to have known regarding this when asked by Congress not once but twice before the issue was known to congress.

And that is what is key. You can go off arguing the minutiae to try and win a point but the argument is absed on Obama's transparency. I can give several example of how it is less. Can you give any of it being more? Certainly not regarding anything to do with the DoJ, DEA, NSA, HSA, DoS, DoT or CIA.

[boutons_deux]

GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance

Edward Snowden papers unmask close technical cooperation and loose alliance between British, German, French, Spanish and Swedish spy agencies

The German, French, Spanish and Swedish intelligence services have all developed methods of mass surveillance (http://www.theguardian.com/world/surveillance) of internet and phone traffic over the past five years in close partnership with Britain's GCHQ (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/gchq)eavesdropping agency.

The bulk monitoring is carried out through direct taps into fibre optic cables and the development of covert relationships with telecommunications companies. A loose but growing eavesdropping alliance has allowed intelligence agencies from one country to cultivate ties with corporations from another to facilitate the trawling of the web, according to GCHQ documents leaked by the former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden (http://www.theguardian.com/world/edward-snowden).

The files also make clear that GCHQ played a leading role in advising its European counterparts how to work around national laws intended to restrict the surveillance power of intelligence agencies.

The German, French and Spanish governments have reacted angrily to reports based on National Security Agency (NSA (http://www.theguardian.com/world/nsa)) files leaked by Snowden since June, revealing the interception of communications by tens of millions of their citizens each month. US intelligence officials have insisted the mass monitoring was carried out by the security agencies in the countries involved (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/world/officials-say-white-house-knew-of-spying.html?_r=0) and shared with the US.

The US director of national intelligence, James Clapper, suggested to Congress on Tuesday that European governments' professed outrage at the reports was at least partly hypocritical. "Some of this reminds me of the classic movie Casablanca: 'My God, there's gambling going on here,' " he said.

Sweden (http://www.theguardian.com/world/sweden), which passed a law in 2008 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7463333.stm%E2%80%9Dhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7463333.stm) allowing its intelligence agency to monitor cross-border email and phone communications without a court order, has been relatively muted in its response.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden

[SA210]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1456016_178845608985622_884656035_n.jpg

[boutons_deux]

Americans' Personal Data Shared With CIA, IRS, Others in Security Probe

Washington - U.S. agencies collected and shared the personal information of thousands of Americans in an attempt to root out untrustworthy federal workers that ended up scrutinizing people who had no direct ties to the U.S. government and simply had purchased certain books.

Federal officials gathered the information from the customer records of two men who were under criminal investigation for purportedly teaching people how to pass lie detector tests. The officials then distributed a list of 4,904 people – along with many of their Social Security numbers, addresses and professions – to nearly 30 federal agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service, the CIA, the National Security Agency and the Food and Drug Administration.

Although the polygraph-beating techniques are unproven, authorities hoped to find government employees or applicants who might have tried to use them to lie during the tests required for security clearances. Officials with multiple agencies confirmed that they’d checked the names in their databases and planned to retain the list in case any of those named take polygraphs for federal jobs or criminal investigations.

It turned out, however, that many people on the list worked outside the federal government and lived across the country. Among the people whose personal details were collected were nurses, firefighters, police officers and private attorneys, McClatchy learned. Also included: a psychologist, a cancer researcher and employees of Rite Aid, Paramount Pictures, the American Red Cross and Georgetown University.

Moreover, many of them had only bought books or DVDs from one of the men being investigated and didn’t receive the one-on-one training that investigators had suspected. In one case, a Washington lawyer was listed even though he’d never contacted the instructors. Dozens of others had wanted to pass a polygraph not for a job, but for a personal reason: The test was demanded by spouses who suspected infidelity.

The unprecedented creation of such a list and decision to disseminate it widely demonstrate the ease with which the federal government can collect and share Americans’ personal information, even when there’s no clear reason for doing so.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/20075-americans-personal-data-shared-with-cia-irs-others-in-security-probe

[Nbadan]

His IRS broke rules which in turn inhibited the application process for his political opponents PACs

They aren't supposed to be PACs....that's the whole point...

[boutons_deux]

N.S.A. Report Outlined Goals for More Power

Officials at the National Security Agency (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_security_agency/index.html?inline=nyt-org), intent on maintaining its dominance in intelligence collection, pledged last year to push to expand its surveillance powers, according to a top-secret strategy document.

In a February 2012 paper (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/23/us/politics/23nsa-sigint-strategy-document.html) laying out the four-year strategy for the N.S.A.’s signals intelligence operations, which include the agency’s eavesdropping and communications data collection around the world, agency officials set an objective to “aggressively pursue legal authorities and a policy framework mapped more fully to the information age.”
Written as an agency mission statement with broad goals, the five-page document said that existing American laws were not adequate to meet the needs of the N.S.A. to conduct broad surveillance in what it cited as “the golden age of Sigint,” or signals intelligence. “The interpretation and guidelines for applying our authorities, and in some cases the authorities themselves, have not kept pace with the complexity of the technology and target environments, or the operational expectations levied on N.S.A.’s mission,” the document concluded.

( iow, We Don't Need/Heed No Stinkin Laws. )

Using sweeping language, the paper also outlined some of the agency’s other ambitions. They included defeating the cybersecurity practices of adversaries in order to acquire the data the agency needs from “anyone, anytime, anywhere.” The agency also said it would try to decrypt or bypass codes that keep communications secret by influencing “the global commercial encryption market through commercial relationships,” human spies and intelligence partners in other countries. It also talked of the need to “revolutionize” analysis of its vast collections of data to “radically increase operational impact.”

The strategy document, provided by the former N.S.A. contractor Edward J. Snowden, was written at a time when the agency was at the peak of its powers and the scope of its surveillance operations was still secret. Since then, Mr. Snowden’s revelations have changed the political landscape.

Prompted by a public outcry over the N.S.A.’s domestic operations, the agency’s critics in Congress have been pushing to limit, rather than expand, its ability to routinely collect the phone and email records of millions of Americans, while foreign leaders have protested reports of virtually unlimited N.S.A. surveillance overseas, even in allied nations. Several inquiries are underway in Washington; Gen. Keith B. Alexander, the N.S.A.’s longest-serving director, has announced plans to retire (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/16/us-usa-nsa-transition-idUSBRE99F12W20131016); and the White House has offered proposals to disclose more information about the agency’s domestic surveillance activities.

The N.S.A. document, titled “Sigint Strategy 2012-2016,” does not make clear what legal or policy changes the agency might seek. The N.S.A.’s powers are determined variously by Congress, executive orders and the nation’s secret intelligence court, and its operations are governed by layers of regulations. While asserting that the agency’s “culture of compliance” would not be compromised, N.S.A. officials argued that they needed more flexibility, according to the paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/politics/nsa-report-outlined-goals-for-more-power.html?hp&_r=1&pagewanted=all&

[TDMVPDPOY]

countries that still have SOE telecommunication companys...lmao owned ur ass

[Nbadan]

Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished
Source: Washington Post


MOSCOW — The familiar voice on the hotel room phone did not waste words.

“What time does your clock say, exactly?” he asked.

He checked the reply against his watch and described a place to meet.

“I’ll see you there,” he said.

Edward Joseph Snowden emerged at the appointed hour, alone, blending into a light crowd of locals and tourists. He cocked his arm for a handshake, then turned his shoulder to indicate a path. Before long he had guided his visitor to a secure space out of public view.

During more than 14 hours of interviews, the first he has conducted in person since arriving here in June, Snowden did not part the curtains or step outside. Russia granted him temporary asylum on Aug. 1, but Snowden remains a target of surpassing interest to the intelligence services whose secrets he spilled on an epic scale.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-after-months-of-nsa-revelations-says-his-missions-accomplished/2013/12/23/49fc36de-6c1c-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html

Time to face the music....

[boutons_deux]

"Time to face the music...."

who? Snowden or NSA/CIA?

NSA/CIA will not be bridled, Congress will have some dog-and-pony shows, but won't bridle NSA/CIA. Perhaps a masquerade of bridling, but hte NSA/CIA are unstoppable.

btw, have no doubt that the NSA has every single character of spurstalk is stored in NSA computers, especially a forum entitled "politics".

[SupremeGuy]

"Time to face the music...."

who? Snowden or NSA/CIA?

NSA/CIA will not be bridled, Congress will have some dog-and-pony shows, but won't bridle NSA/CIA. Perhaps a masquerade of bridling, but hte NSA/CIA are unstoppable.

btw, have no doubt that the NSA has every single character of spurstalk stored in NSA computers, especially a forum entitled "politics".


They can try...

http://www.mexicoarmado.com/attachments/temas-generales-y-humor/448933d1366271629-bombas-nucleares-norcorea-hacia-e-u-tin-foil-hat-2.jpg

[mouse]

The man fucked up when he used his name and face to get his 15 minutes, he could have easily just left all what he wanted us to know about the NSA on top of the manhole cover to Alex Jone's underground bunker but he didn't, now he must forever stay hidden or out of reach, sorry but that's what comes with the price you pay to become famous.

Just ask the vato that shot John Lennon.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its funni how this guy exposes more damaging shit then wikileak clown, yet aint doing shit

[LnGrrrR]

If it wasn't for Snowden, these programs would continue on unabated and grow ever larger, wasting more money and time. Frankly, the US needs to have a discussion on security, privacy, etc etc. The sooner, the better.

[boutons_deux]

E.U. Panel Invites Snowden to Testify on Privacy Breaches

A European Parliament committee has invited Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who has leaked classified government documents (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/us/national-security-agency-surveillance.html?ref=media) and is now in hiding in Russia, to testify via video link as part of an investigation into how to protect the privacy of European citizens.

The Parliament’s Justice and Civil Liberties Committee voted 36-2 with one abstention on Thursday to seek testimony from Mr. Snowden, whose exposures of the reach of surveillance activities by the United States on even its closest allies (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/world/nsa-dragnet-included-allies-aid-groups-and-business-elite.html) has raised global awareness about privacy issues and deeply embarrassed the Obama administration. Mr. Snowden has become a hero among civil liberty advocates in both Europe and the United States.

However, some dissenting voices in the Parliament tried to block the invitation, with some conservative members calling Mr. Snowden a scourge who had put national security at risk and others warning that inviting him could undermine Europe’s relations with the United States.

Mr. Snowden “has endangered lives,” said Timothy Kirkhope, a British member from the European Conservatives and Reformists Group.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/world/europe/eu-panel-invites-snowden.html?from=homepage

conservatives everywhere are the same! :lol

[boutons_deux]

The NSA's impact on US datacenter hosting

In a survey commissioned by Canadian-based hosting provider Peer 1 (http://www.peer1.com/) of potential Canadian and UK datacenter customers 25 percent of the respondents indicated that they were planning on moving their data outside the US and hopefully out of the reach of the NSA.

The independent survey of 300 datacenter customers also indicated that their overall trust in hosting providers was negatively impacted by the entire NSA debacle, with more than half also distrusting the public cloud in general. This actually contrasts oddly with the 81 percent who made a point of wanting to know exactly where their data was being stored, a concept that undermines the concept of cloud-based storage to a certain degree.

http://www.zdnet.com/the-nsas-impact-on-us-datacenter-hosting-7000024981/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539

And then there's the Cisco type US vendors having trouble selling their back-doored hardwared overseas. But, we're safe, like a Boston Marathon, from the ragheads! :lol

[boutons_deux]

Sen. Schumer Is Completely Wrong; Snowden Would Be Barred From Arguing His Case At Trial

It seems every week (https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/12/if-snowden-returned-us-trial-all-whistleblower-evidence-would-likely-be-inadmissible) a new member of Congress goes on a Sunday talk show and incorrectly states that if Edward Snowden came back to the United States to stand trial, he would be able to tell his side of the story to a jury and argue he is a whistleblower. This is factually not true (https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/12/if-snowden-returned-us-trial-all-whistleblower-evidence-would-likely-be-inadmissible), and it's time for members of the media to start pushing back at those who suggest it is.

This week it was Senator Chuck Schumer on ABC's "This Week." Here's what Schumer said, according to the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/us/politics/senators-differ-sharply-on-penalty-for-snowden.html?hp):


Mr. Schumer said...[Snowden] should return to stand trial and face the consequences of his actions. Such a trial, the senator said, could be enlightening for the country.
...
He said it was unclear how much the broad metadata gleaned by the National Security Agency had helped the fight against terrorists; how much damage Mr. Snowden had, in fact, done to intelligence efforts; and precisely how the data were used.

“All of this could come out in a trial; it would be beneficial for the country to have the discussion,” Mr. Schumer said. “So, running away, being helped by Russia and China, is not in the tradition of a true civil disobedience practitioner.”

In reality, none of that information would be heard by a jury, if prior Espionage Act cases against leakers are any guide. Judges have ruled evidence of showing intent to inform the public, benefits of the leaks, and lack of damage to national security is inadmissible.

We made this point just two weeks ago (https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/12/if-snowden-returned-us-trial-all-whistleblower-evidence-would-likely-be-inadmissible), but it seems worth repeating since it seems as though members of Congress opining on Snowden's legal options do not know how the law works. Here are how four of the most recent Espionage Act leak cases have turned out:




John Kiriakou, the former CIA officer who was the first to go on-the-record with the media about waterboarding, pled guilty in his Espionage Act case last year partially because a judge ruled he couldn’t tell the jury about his lack of intent (http://blogs.fas.org/secrecy/2012/10/kiriakou_intent/) to harm the United States.



In the ongoing leak trial of former State Department official Stephen Kim, the judge recently ruled (http://blogs.fas.org/secrecy/2013/07/prosecutors-burden/) that the prosecution “need not show that the information he allegedly leaked could damage U.S. national security or benefit a foreign power, even potentially.” (emphasis added)
In the Espionage Act case against NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake (https://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/drake/) (which later fell apart), the government filed two separate motions to make sure the words "whistleblowing (https://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/drake/022511-motion53.pdf)" or "overclassification (https://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/drake/022511-motion54.pdf)" would never be uttered at trial.



In Chelsea Manning's trial this past summer, Manning's defense wanted to argue she intended to inform the public, that the military was afflicted with a deep and unnecessary addiction to overclassification, and that the government’s own internal assessments showed she caused no real damage to U.S. interests. All this information was ruled inadmissible (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/manning-largely-barred-from-discussing-wikileaks-harm) until sentencing. Manning was sentenced to thirty-five years in jail—longer than most actual spies (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/shorter-sentences-than-bradley-manning_n_3789754.html) under the Espionage Act.


At this point, it's time for the media to start pushing back on government officials suggesting Snowden should tell his story to a jury, when caselaw says he would be barred from doing so. The New York Times is aware of this fact, as they mentioned it in another article published Sunday (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/05/us/moves-to-curb-spying-help-drive-the-clemency-argument-for-snowden.html?pagewanted=2#h4) about the chances of Snowden receiving clemency. But in their story about Schumer's comments (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/us/politics/senators-differ-sharply-on-penalty-for-snowden.html?hp), they let his false statement go uncorrected.

It's also time for Congress to start debating the merits of using the Espionage Act on the sources of journalists. If Sen. Schumer thinks that Snowden should be able to tell all of the above information to a jury, we look forward to his amicus brief in a potential Snowden trial arguing that a whistleblower defense should be admissible. In the mean time, he and other members of Congress concerned about whistleblowers getting a fair trial should push for reform or repeal of the Espionage Act.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140106/11563925775/sen-schumer-is-completely-wrong-snowden-would-be-barred-arguing-his-case-trial.shtml