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Rummpd
07-25-2005, 06:33 AM
Take a shot back at me on this if you like - such rankings are always subjective!

In future I will not post these subscription articles in total content, but some of you who are passionate about the game might considering enrolling over there at less than a tavern beer a month, or if you are a cheapskate just sign up for the free "rag", SWISH.

Bring it On - Who are the Top 25 in the Game Today?
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By Peter Rumm, MD
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jul 24, 2005, 17:01

The following is a revised list of the top twenty five players in the NBA - always a controversial subject, but now a very difficult one in an era of deep and developing stars throughout both conferences. Anyway disagree and many will = bring it on and drop me an e-mail!


1. Tim Duncan, PF/C, San Antonio Spurs. No contest here right now, no one consistently dominates the game as effectively on both offense and defense and he is the best at this "duality" in the NBA since the brilliant draft day duo (1984) of Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon. Recall that between the "Dream and MJ" - they led the Bulls and Rockets teams respectively to a combined eight straight NBA championships.

Mr. Duncan produced again when he had too again in Game 6 of a championship finals despite two gimpy ankles. This three time finals MVP did not reach the heights of his near "quadruple double" versus the New Jersey Nets in the 2003-2003 season finals but he was very effective down the stretch when he needed to be.

What a resume this guy has! Duncan's honors include eight straight first team NBA selections, three titles and multiple first team NBA defensive team selections. Some question his free throw shooting, some have even called him (inappropriately) "soft".

However, here is one indisputable fact first attributable to Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune - no superstar playing over five years in any professional championship sport in the 20th century has ever led his team to a higher winning percentage!

Simply put we are witnessing one of the top ten careers ever in the NBA period (along with Shaquille O'Neals and perhaps the start of a couple of others).

2. Shaquille O'Neal, C, Miami Heat. This new MBA graduate (hats off to him for that!) still dominates the game in stretches even more completely than perhaps even the great Tim Duncan. Last year his production was down from is historical standards at 22.9 PPG and 10.4 RBG but so was his minutes and he is still the most dominant close to the basket player by far in the game. Plus at this point of his career Shaquille is mainly motivated by championships and don't bet against both him and Duncan both winning at least a couple more in their certain Hall of Fame careers.

Mr. O'Neal is getting up there in years but the fact remains that big men such as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell and David Robinson helped lead their teams to multiple championships in the twilights of their careers. Combined with the very talented Dwyane Wade (see below) in Miami, Shaquille O'Neal may well do the same!

3. Kevin Garnett, F, Minnesota Timberwolves. Ok Mr. Garnett did not lead his team to the playoffs or duplicate his MVP season of the year before but it was still a strong year at 22.2 PPG and 13.5 RBG. Even more incredible is his NBA.com efficiency rating of + 31.96. One can argue that there has never been a more versatile big man in the league than Mr. Garnett and his career statistics approach the sublime as he averages over 20 points a game (20.2), over 10 rebounds a game (11.1) and perhaps most impressively, almost 5 assists a game (4.5). In fact, since the 99-00 season he has never averaged less than five assists per game.

4. Dirk Nowitzki, F, Dallas Mavericks. This may be a controversial choice over some of the strong guard talent in the game, but in my view what this guy does as a versatile seven footer is almost on par with Garnett, and last year he played on nearly the all around level of Garnett and Duncan at the forward position except he was not as good defensively as either player. Greg Popovich (San Antonio Spurs Head Coach) has frequently called Nowitzki the toughest "cover" for Duncan and others on his team. Mr. Nowitzki is certainly the best German NBA player ever and last year the undisputed leader of the improving Mavericks averaged a strong 26.1 PPG and 9.7 RBG. Even what keeps him from the very top 2-3, his defense, is seemingly improving under coach Avery Johnson and last year he did have 1.53 blocks per game.

5. Kobe Bryant, SG and occasional SF, Los Angeles Lakers. Granted Kobe had an off year with a shooting percentage of about 43% but he was second in the league in scoring averaging over 27 points per game on bad ankles. Other guards and small forward/swing men are "breathing" down his neck to displace him from this spot, but expect Bryant to have a strong year and lead his team in an improved fashion as he is now reunited with Phil Jackson.

For all the personal and media "hits" he has taken, I still see him as the most all around talented shooting guard/small forward perhaps in history except for Michael Jordan or Oscar Robertson. Plus he has a history of being a clutch player, this is a rare and special commodiity. Of the shooting guards in the league today, some others including Manu Ginobili, Ben Gordon, and Dwyane Wade have seemingly shown this rare capacity, albeit in shorter careers!

6. Dwayne Wade, G, Miami Heat. This may be the most controversial ranking as it is above the more hyped Lebron James. However, Mr. Wade often carried the Heat during Shaq's absences last year, is at this point a better defender, and has come up clutch in many situations including playoff games. Plus, he is very versatile in his ability to go back and forth from a true point to a shooting guard seemingly at will and his absence from game 6 in the Eastern Conference finals may have cost the Heat a chance at a NBA title.

7. Lebron James, G/SF, Cleveland Cavaliers. Mr. James in some eyes should be a top three player right now and he is doing incredible things on the court, i.e. averaging more than 25 PPG, 7 RBG and 7 APG. These haughty statistics are almost unprecedented and rival closely the early years of both Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson. In fact, some think the could become the first player since the "Big O" to average a triple double in the regular season.

James now has strong talent around him with Larry Hughes, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and others and he now has to prove that he can lead a team and play improved defense. If he does this anyone on the list above needs to watch out - including Tim Duncan!

8 Allen Iverson, G, Philadelphia Sixers. Again, some will argue with this choice over some bigger players and even the MVP, Steve Nash. However, a case can be made that last years scoring champion at 30.7 PPG became a valuable distributor of the ball playing point and he averaged 7.9 APG. He is also a fearsome defender and intense competitor with a well deserved reputation for toughness.

Most impressively, though is the growth in leadership of Iverson. He was a co-captain of the Olympic Team and then has shown increased maturity and gives a lot back to the game in charity work in the Philadelphia area.

The mature Iverson has become a marked contrast to another Philadelphia superstar, the Eagles' Terrell Owens, who is in the media daily with his most recent contract demands.

9. Tracy McGrady, G/SF. Houston Rockets. A case can be made that not even Bryant or James possess the physical talents of this still young man, who has done everything in his career except win so far. That will come, as will maturity and I believe he will eventually put his infamous words about taking periods of games off with the Magic behind him. Now paired with Yao Ming (see below) in Houston he put on one of the most incredible late game performances ever in stunning comeback win over San Antonio scoring 13 points in less than a minute. Mr. McGrady also has the capacity to play tough defense and is learning that under his coach (Jeff) Van Gundy with the Rockets.

10. Jermaine O'Neal C/PF, Indiana Pacers. Surely a controversial choice here but he impressed me and others greatly with his maturity coming back from his suspension last year and playing hurt in the playoffs without complaint. Don't forget he was in the running for MVP just a year earlier and is a stout defender and scorer that has skills in many ways comparable to Tim Duncan, and is more "athletic". He had very "stout" statistics despite everything going on last year: 24.3 PPG, 8.8 RBG, 2.0 BPG.

11. Steve Nash, PG, Phoenix Suns. Hard to put a MVP number 11 in a career year, and he had an awesome playoffs until his team lost in five games to the championship Spurs. However, the truth of the matter is that when it counted Tony Parker, PG, San Antonio nearly played him even then had much more trouble with Chauncey Billups, PG of the Detroit Pistons. That is not to discredit Mr. Nash who did all he could do to try to will his team to victory along with the supremely talented Amare Stoudemire but it was not enough. It will be interesting to see if he and his team can be as productive this year as last. In addition, Mr. Nash's defense is simply not up to par with many of the players above him.

12. Amare Stoudemire, C/PF, Phoenix Suns. The sky is the limit for this young man and former rookie of the year. Offensively he was as dominant as anyone player versus the San Antonio Spurs in the last decade in a series, averaging an incredible 37.0 PPG and 9.8 RBG. Even more stunning for an offensively minded player, he also had one of the all time great blocks on a close in shot by Tim Duncan in the waning minutes of Game 4.

Mr. Stoudemire, like Lebron James, has the supreme natural ability and apparent work ethic to move into a top three ranking or so within the next few years. For Amare it will all be about desire (and he seems to have a lot) and he needs to work on more steady defense and more consistent shot blocking.

13. Ben Wallace, C, Detroit Pistons. This three time defensive MVP can impact a game one side of the ball and showed flashes in the playoffs of an increased scoring arsenal. Like Shaquille O'Neal and Tim Duncan, he is criticized by his free throw shooting but does not tend to go the line as much as both of them. Certainly he is among the best rebounders and shot blockers to ever play the game at his size.

14. Jason Kidd, PG, New Jersey Nets. Injured much of last two years, but when healthy he is as good as any point guard in the game including Mr. Nash. With an improved line-up around him expect the competitive juices of Mr. Kidd to flow and the Nets could become a surprise team to challenge in the East again in the very near future.

15. Ray Allen, G, Seattle Sonics. Mr. Allen moved into the top players in the game last year in legit fashion. Always one of the top shooters in the league (and perhaps the best from some spots on the floor) Mr. Allen became a leader and his team, despite injuries gave the Spurs a tough six game series. Mr. Allen has also seemingly become a decent defender and a better interior scorer.

16. Stephon Marbury, G, New York Knicks. Quietly in the midst of a terrible season last year for the New York Knicks, Mr. Marbury had a stellar year with a 21.7 PPG and an impressive 8.1 APG. If he could ever get some steady talent around him, Mr. Marbury could actually prove his boast that he is the "top point guard in the game". Anyhow he is not far off, all he has to do is lead a winning team.

17. Yao Ming, C, Houston Rockets. At 7'6" and possessing an 18.3 PPG, 8.8 RBG, and 2.0 BPG average statistical averages year, he just was not the totally dominant consistent force that Jeff Van Gundy and others hope he can be and may well be. He is often either in foul trouble or seemingly tired, but has a great set of offensive moves and can block shots. He also is "strong in the trunk" and is one of the few tall centers that Shaquille O'Neal cannot back down easily. Expect him to improve this year and move up into the top 10-12 players in the game.

18. Carmelo Anthony, F, Denver Nuggets. Perhaps, last year this talented second year player seemingly matured under new Head Coach George Karl and he has a world of talent. He had a strong second half after his minutes were limited for awhile under Karl and then had a good first round series versus the Spurs. Can he move back up to challenge his currently more touted draft class mates, Lebron James and Dwyane Wade? Time will tell.

19. Manu Ginobili, G, San Antonio Spurs. Manu does not have the most impressive statistics yet in the NBA but his resume is solid: two titles, an All Star berth, a past Euro League MVP, Olympic Gold medalist, and nearly a NBA finals MVP performance. Mr. Ginobili is a fearsome performer who has also proven to be a clutch shooter, scorer and is an excellent defender. Paired with Tim Duncan, the Spurs with an assist by Tony Parker and others are a safe pick to repeat as champions or at least win several more titles in the next 5-7 years.

20. Paul Pierce, F/G, Boston Celtics. Probably the most talented player all around in the second ten but had a somewhat disappointing year. However, expect this competitor to come back strong.

21. Ron Artest, F, Indiana Pacers. In the summer leagues and practices he showed a very strong game and little rust, and perhaps Larry Bird is right in insisting they will not trade him except for "top ten talent". Perhaps, the best defender in the NBA with apologies to Bruce Bowen for anyone who is not a center.

22. Elton Brand, PF, Los Angeles Clippers. Steady 20/10 type of performer never given the credit he deserves and in my opinion would be a good swap out for Ron Artest, as he is a battler who is there every night.

23. Brad Miller, C, Sacramento Kings. I thought of putting sharp shooting team mate, Peja Stojakovic, here but his defense and toughness is simply not that of Mr. Miller. Miller is a fierce competitor who battles Shaquille O'Neal as well as anyone, has a nice touch and although hurt some the last few years is one of the reasons I think the Kings still have enough to contend in the East with their recent strong draft and some other roster changes.

24. Mike Bibby, PG. Sacramento Kings. A tough choice over many great players. Some of many in consideration were Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, and Larry Hughes; but in many big games in the past, Mr. Bibby has produced, and therefore gets the pick.

Bibby is also an under-rated defender with a tough attitude, who is playing perhaps the hardest positions for teams to fill outside of that of the interior presence, i.e., a superstar in the mold of the O'Neals, Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, or Amare Stoudemire.

Tied 25. Shawn Marion, SF/PF, Phoenix Suns. Now that the Suns have Kurt Thomas, Mr. Marion can play some more at his natural SF position and hopefully, he can put behind him a most dismal performance versus the Spurs. The "matrix" is a great player, now can he do it when it most matters?

Tied 25. Vince Carter, G/SF, New Jersey Nets. Can this physically gifted "half-man, half amazing", do it for more than half a season? Can he also play some defense? Can he co-exist with other scoring threats like Richard Jefferson, Kidd and the surprising young center of the Nets, Nenad Krstic. Stay tuned - if so move him up the list!


*Some others in consideration besides those mentioned at #24, Rashard Lewis, Kenyon Martin, Baron Davis, Dwight Howard, Rasheed Wallace, Antoine Walker, Zach Randolph, Ben Gordon, Michael Redd, Lamar Odom, Andrei Kirilenko, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, the ageless Robert Horry (for his great value in the playoffs), Pau Gasol, Steve Francis, Tayshaun Prince, Michael Finley, Eddy Curry (when healthy and showing his late season form), Kirk Hinrich (an under-rated PG) and the under-rated Antawn Jamison.

Chris Webber, Richard Jefferson and Sam Cassell and others have been severely hurt by injuries but have the talent to get back on this list. Also, the great value of a defensive "stud" like Bruce Bowen or Mr. Prince (see above) should not be minimized in player rankings nor the value of a veteran player like Alonzo Mourning either off the bench or in the starting line-up this year for Miami.


*A Special Note = Grant Hill, F, Orlando Magic, one of the most gifted NBA players of all time deserves special mention. If Mr. Hill stays healthy through this year after his strong comeback of last year from his terrible foot and ankle problems, he is probably a definite "lock" to move back into the top 25 in my opinion and maybe into the top 10-15. Grant Hill at a young age was putting up numbers fairly comparable to Lebron James's stunning statistical averages in multiple categories and like James was looked upon as a possible Jordanesque type of talent. Right now a strong case can be made that he is a top 25 player anyway, this ranking would be as for his leadership and marked "class and demeanor" on and off the court as much as his still strong and smooth game. Among the rookies, Andrew Bogut (C, Bucks) is probably more ready than most, which is rare in a big man out of college, but he also has extensive international experience. Bogut seems to also be a determined young man who wants to prove his selection at number one was not a fluke. However, a case could be made for any of the multiple North Carolina graduates (S. May may be the most ready to contribute but Marvin Williams is already exciting Atlanta Hawks fans). That being said, the league is deep and players like Dwight Howard, Tony Parker, Andrei Kirilenko, Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton and others are the type of players with the talent to move by the end of the year into a revised rankings and there are many more.



[email protected] welcomes comments!



News editor (Sixers are my primary news team as I live in area), Exclusive editor and Superfan and Sportsdoc!


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AI-square
07-25-2005, 07:05 AM
Jermaine O'Neal better than Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash???

Spurologist
07-25-2005, 07:32 AM
Manu should be in the top ten. Mike Bibby over Tony/Billups? Jermaine over Amare is just mind boggling. :idiot

yavozerb
07-25-2005, 07:48 AM
I go:
TD
KG
Shaq
Lebron
Mcgrady
Amare
Dirk
Wade
Kobe
Nash

WalterBenitez
07-25-2005, 08:04 AM
TD, Manu = ok, they are in the right position - at least right level-, but TP must be considered in Top 25, come on, the Kid is NBA's Champ PG.

xcoriate
07-25-2005, 08:23 AM
Its not an easy thing to make a top 25 of the leqague. Least of all one thats solely your opinion. Good job.

One think for your writing however. You used the "Mr. (last name)" far, far to frequently when discussing players.

BTW, keep posting them in full if you please. Unless they want to sign me up out here in Australia for that mag :smokin

spursupporter
07-25-2005, 08:38 AM
Elton brand and J Oneal = overrated

GrandeDavid
07-25-2005, 08:51 AM
Fair enough ranking of Tim and Manu. At first you'd think Manu should be higher considering his resume and recent dominant playoff performance, but let's see how next season pans out, which I'm expecting to be terrific. I think that this time next year Manu is close to Top 10, if not already in there.

TheTruth
07-25-2005, 10:07 AM
I'd disagree on a few things (Amare so low), but otherwise a nice list. Thanks doc.

Obi wan Ginobili
07-25-2005, 10:08 AM
Manu below Yao?

ROFL...

Obi wan Ginobili
07-25-2005, 10:11 AM
Lebron below D Wade?

Nowitzki above the 6 people after him?

I put Amare over Dirk RIGHT NOW, Lebron, Dwade, etc.

1)Timmy
2)Shaq
3)LEBRON
4)Kobe
5)KG
6)D Wade
7)AMARE
8)Iverson
9)Dirk
10)McGrady
11)Nash (For this year) Hard to have an MVP that doesn't make top 10. He won't be there long
12)Ray Allen
13)Rasheed Wallace
14)Ginobili
15)Jermaine O'Neil

1Parker1
07-25-2005, 10:15 AM
How the hell is Mike Bibby #24 on that list? You say he's showed up in "big games" in the past? I don't remember him doing so in the playoffs last year...or even so much the year before. No way is he before Chancey Billups, who has a NBA ring, Mvp OF Finals trophy, and led his team to the Finals twice already. Bibby?! I'm sorry, but...:rolleyes


Dirk is #4????? He should be somewhere around there with Nash's ranking. Dirk is also a crappy defender...just because he can score, doesn't warrant him being so high on that list.

Don't even get me started on Jermaine Oneal...how is he at #10, a better player than Amare and Ben Wallace?


And how the hell is Elton Brand and Brad Miller on that list?! What have they don't in their careers, or even the past season to warrant them being a Top 25 player in the NBA?

Obi wan Ginobili
07-25-2005, 10:19 AM
Parker... Rofl...

I love your sig...

But we have the Hearts of TWO champions since we ripped theirs out.

:elephant

WalterBenitez
07-25-2005, 10:20 AM
We should split the rank by positions, later make the criteria clear, without that this is a never ending discussion, someone of us will sort players by stats, others by personal preferences, etc. :oops

For instance:

C = TD > Shak > Amare > Yao ...
F = Kevin > Dirk > ...
SG = Kober > Lebron > TMAC > Manu ...
PG = Nash > AI > Kidd > TP

My criteria = My perception of the impact each player has in his team :drunk

waly.mg
07-25-2005, 10:21 AM
NBA Final: Where Leyends are Born

No Finals MVP, not the best
No Finals, no leyend
No Finals, no Great Player

1-Duncan (3MVP) 2- SHaq (3MVP) 3- Kobe (3 MVP Perfomance) 4- Chauncey Billups (2 Finals - 1 MVP and 1 MVP Perfomance), 5- Allen Iverson (1 Finals MVP Perfomance), 6- Ben Wallace, (2 NBA Finals: 2 MVP Perfomance) 7- Manu Ginobili (2 NBA Finals - 1 MVP Perfomance) 8- Jason Kidd (2 NBA Finals) 9- Richard Hamilton (2 NBA Finals) 10 - Rasheed Wallace (2 NBA Finals) 11 - Tony Parker (2 NBA Finals) 12 - Bruce Bowen (2 NBA Finals)

1Parker1
07-25-2005, 10:50 AM
Parker... Rofl...

I love your sig...

But we have the Hearts of TWO champions since we ripped theirs out.

:elephant


:lol True.....

Actually that quote was from some article I read about the Finals recap, which I thought was very appropriate :)

caŽlo
07-25-2005, 11:52 AM
brad miller over rasheed wallace? :)

otherwise. everyones entitled to his/her opinion.

great article rummpd!! loved readin it!

clubalien
07-25-2005, 12:12 PM
7. Lebron James, G/SF, Cleveland Cavaliers. Mr. James in some eyes should be a top three player right now and he is doing incredible things on the court, i.e. averaging more than 25 PPG, 7 RBG and 7 APG. These haughty statistics are almost unprecedented and rival closely the early years of both Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson. In fact, some think the could become the first player since the "Big O" to average a triple double in the regular season.
this dude has a small contract I think he is underpaid and he plays SF ( A need for us) plus he is pretty damn young to boot

Nash to Amare
07-25-2005, 12:24 PM
1. Duncan
2. Amare
3. Shaq
4. K. Garnett
5. D. Wade
6. K. Bryant
7. T. Mcgrady
8. L. James
9. D. Nowitzki
10.S. Nash

Dex
07-25-2005, 12:35 PM
this dude has a small contract I think he is underpaid and he plays SF ( A need for us) plus he is pretty damn young to boot

Dude, do you realize who Lebron James is?

He's about as untouchable for the Cavs as Tim Duncan is for us.

spursfaninla
07-25-2005, 01:29 PM
the lebron thing was a joke. get with it... :rolleyes

zeleni
07-25-2005, 01:57 PM
this dude has a small contract I think he is underpaid and he plays SF ( A need for us) plus he is pretty damn young to boot

Marcus Bryant, make a Trade target tread. This gotta be discussed more closely!

csw225
07-25-2005, 02:01 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Allen Iverson
6. LeBron James
7. Dwayne Wade
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Steve Nash
11. Amare Stoudemire
12. Ray Allen
13. Jermaine O'Neal
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Jason Kidd
16. Chauncey Billups
17. Shawn Marion
18. Yao Ming
19. Ben Wallace
20. Mike Bibby
21. Gilbert Arenas
22. Vince Carter
23. Steve Francis
24. Paul Pierce
25. Carmelo Anthony

Mixability
07-25-2005, 02:01 PM
the lebron thing was a joke. get with it... :rolleyes

i don't think it was a joke, clubalien has posted idiotic things before.... an example? he posted that he saw some 4 footer just dunk on DRob on TV. What he didn't realize was that "Like Mike" with Lil Bow Wow is make believe..... :lol

FoxMulder
07-25-2005, 05:16 PM
I still think some of those players are overrated...

Jermaine O´neal
Dwayne Wade is still a maybe... take Shaq out of the equation...
and overall Carmelo and Paul Pierce...

Stephon Marbury over Mike Bibby and Manu? maybe this guy was drinking...

exstatic
07-25-2005, 07:34 PM
Jermaine O'Neal better than Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash???
Amare and Nash are one way players.

If

a) the Suns didn't run every play of every game
b) teams packed down on Amare the way they do on Tim

he wouldn't score 20 a game. You might actually see b) if JJ's offer from ATL isn't matched.

Scola#13
07-25-2005, 07:57 PM
Dirk at 4 well we might as well put big dog in the top 5 as well, he can shoot and play little d as well, that is a joke.
Ginobili should be ranked higher and Lebron should be three,
1 TD
2 Shaq
3 Bron
4 Kg
5 Kobe

16 Ginobili

TDMVPDPOY
07-25-2005, 11:51 PM
bron is rank too high imo, he be around whereever kobe/tmac/wade/bron is

2centsworth
07-26-2005, 12:00 AM
Manu is easily top 20. Dude is super clutch down the stretch. When Timmy is right I want no one else. Dude is absolutely unstoppable when he is on his game.


BTW, Elton Brand on the spurs would be every other teams worst nightmare.

mavsfan1000
07-26-2005, 12:31 AM
Dirk at 4 well we might as well put big dog in the top 5 as well, he can shoot and play little d as well, that is a joke.
Ginobili should be ranked higher and Lebron should be three,
1 TD
2 Shaq
3 Bron
4 Kg
5 Kobe

16 Ginobili
What is a joke about Dirk being 4? He has improved every part of his game including his defense. Dirk led his team to 58 regular season wins but he did struggle in the playoffs. He played against 2 long athletic SF that have always given him the most trouble. Kinda like Rasheed does to Duncan. I say it is very questionable to anyone from 2-10.

milkyway21
07-26-2005, 02:10 AM
1. Duncan
2. Amare :nope
3. Shaq
4. K. Garnett
5. D. Wade
6. K. Bryant
7. T. Mcgrady
8. L. James
9. D. Nowitzki
10.S. Nash

so where's AI? and Kidd?

Rummpd
07-26-2005, 03:16 AM
Thanks for comments = there is no perfect list.

Parker needs to be steady in playoffs if so = sure top 25 and could break top 20.

Those of you who do not watch J. O'Neal regularily he is a stud. He is also doing things in a Duncan like fashion and on both sides of ball - that is why he is right now better than Amare!

Rummpd
07-26-2005, 05:34 AM
Good list except I do not agree with Francis.!

Carmelo far better potential talent with his height then him and will prove it this year - also this year Yao to be 20. 10+, 2.5 BPG player.

TheTruth
07-26-2005, 05:38 AM
i don't think it was a joke, clubalien has posted idiotic things before.... an example? he posted that he saw some 4 footer just dunk on DRob on TV. What he didn't realize was that "Like Mike" with Lil Bow Wow is make believe..... :lol
:lmao

Sense
07-26-2005, 06:14 AM
What is a joke about Dirk being 4? He has improved every part of his game including his defense. Dirk led his team to 58 regular season wins but he did struggle in the playoffs. He played against 2 long athletic SF that have always given him the most trouble. Kinda like Rasheed does to Duncan. I say it is very questionable to anyone from 2-10.


He's no leader and the Mavs still suck.

The guy's a shooter, and that's all there is too his game.

Sense
07-26-2005, 06:16 AM
so where's AI? and Kidd?


AI=ballhog, never led his team to anything successful...and Kidd is just kidd, too old to do anything, his numbers decreased...


Why is it that we have stupid Spurs fans that still go by the "hyped" players?

1Parker1
07-26-2005, 09:21 AM
AI=ballhog, never led his team to anything successful...and Kidd is just kidd, too old to do anything, his numbers decreased...


Why is it that we have stupid Spurs fans that still go by the "hyped" players?

hmm...guess you missed it when AI led the Sixers to the NBA Finals in 01. Guess you missed it these last 2 years when he led the East All-Stars to wins and won All Star MVP's. He's a ballhog? Guess you missed it last season when he averaged 8 assists per game. :rolleyes

It's not his fault he has a suck ass team and no coach.

orhe
07-26-2005, 10:35 AM
anyway... i'd give Kobe one more season before i really judge how good he is :)
obviously the height he got was factored by shaq and although he still had 27/6/6 last season he was shooting poorly (field goal wise and shot selection). let's give him several more chances and after last year i won't rank him higher than 5 (sorry) (i rank iverson higher)...

Amere Stoudemire

Sure guys say he still ain't good enough defensively but when you're that good on offense its impossible not to give him a number 5 ranking. One more thing that struck me was a couple of comments Amare made: He really appreciated the way the spurs played (always taking good shots etc making right decisions) and that his goal is to be Defensive Player of the Year.

Im an Amare fan....

Garnett IMHO is overrated. He doesn't impact the game the way he is supposed to. Sure he rebounds a lot defends the paint but his scoring (or his style) sucks. With his perimeter type game and a couple of post ups here and there it doesn't create the spacing and tempo that dominates (scoring wise). the scoring that he does could be given to another great SG or SF :)

Shaq should be number 1-4 in any list the way he just impacts the game and the things he can do = unbelievable...

Manu had a fair ranking

orhe
07-26-2005, 10:37 AM
the heat should have won the series against the pistons :( (sorry detroit fans)
Stan Van Gundy lost control of his team some time during that series
eg. (Kenyon Dooling, Dwade taking ill advised early jumpshots), taking shaq out of some pretty important stretches (when the game was still on the line) play calling...

that's why i think the calls for Pat Riley are well-founded

Nash to Amare
07-26-2005, 11:12 AM
the heat should have won the series against the pistons :( (sorry detroit fans)
Stan Van Gundy lost control of his team some time during that series
eg. (Kenyon Dooling, Dwade taking ill advised early jumpshots), taking shaq out of some pretty important stretches (when the game was still on the line) play calling...

that's why i think the calls for Pat Riley are well-founded
No shit. Miami will own Detroit next year. Detroit is overated. They really aren't that good. Wade's injury along with the other starters was the difference. Detroit is the 3rd best team in the east now.

Nash to Amare
07-26-2005, 11:13 AM
so where's AI? and Kidd?
Kidd is old and AI is not quite there.

1Parker1
07-26-2005, 12:57 PM
anyway... i'd give Kobe one more season before i really judge how good he is :)
obviously the height he got was factored by shaq and although he still had 27/6/6 last season he was shooting poorly (field goal wise and shot selection).

Actually, if I remember correctly Kobe shot about 43% in fg last season, while even Tracy McgRADY scored something like 42% from the field........

mavsfan1000
07-26-2005, 08:37 PM
He's no leader and the Mavs still suck.

The guy's a shooter, and that's all there is too his game.
That was Dirk a couple years ago. He has improved every part of his game including rebounding, blocking, steals, and etc. He is relentless at attacking the basket and you are forced to foul him to prevent him from finishing.

orhe
07-26-2005, 08:59 PM
Actually, if I remember correctly Kobe shot about 43% in fg last season, while even Tracy McgRADY scored something like 42% from the field........

my bad i was saying from a game standpoint... the way he just chucks up the threes :) it ain't good shot selection. Kobe for his career averages 45.5% so 43.3% is still a little low (that could be attributed for the tighter defense on him and more jump shots)

in comparison to Tmac and Kobe i think LJIII was right on.
he was saying that when Tmac was in Orlando he used to attack the rack more but now he is just some jump shooter and in regards to kobe he isn't slashing as much as he has to... (comparing ginobili to other players in the league)

ManuOwns20
08-02-2005, 02:49 PM
here's my top 10:

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. KG
4. AI
5. Dirk
6. Lebron
7. T-Mac
8. Kobe
9. Wade
10. J. Oneal

greywheel
08-02-2005, 02:57 PM
It's kinda cheap to have a tie at number 25. Might as well set them in order and call it the top 26.

GoSpurs21
08-02-2005, 03:17 PM
the main problem with these lists are they put too much credit into the regular season numbers and past years performances

when most of the credit should be taken from current and past playoff performances