Which team is more overhyped, tbh?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Bulls or Clippers, tbh?..

I expect both teams to receive a ton of hype going into the playoffs by the vanilla media and fans, tbh..

I'm seeing people all over the Internet picking the Bulls to be the 1 or 2 overall team in the league, despite having virtually the same flaws as the 2011 team..

Clippers are generating hype, even more than early last year, due to the acquisition of Doc Rivers:lmao..

[The Gemini Method]

Both have a certain degree of being overhyped. I think its a push--you have the Clippers taking the mantra as the better L.A. team and you have the media-blasted return of Derrick Rose in your fact quite often. It will be interesting to see how these two teams end up at the end of the regular season and their quest through the 2nd season.

[Katherine Robinson]

Rose is the current media golden boy after the flak Durant had withstood. The Bulls should be the mecia's pick considering how well they will likely do during regular season.

[Killakobe81]

Overhyped and/or Overrated:

1. Rox
2. Clips
3. Bulls
4. Pacers

Underrated:
1. Heat (shocking)
2. Spurs (mildly shocking)
3. Mavs (think RC and Dirk will surprise some folks)

[Mugen]

Rockets tbh.

[The Gemini Method]

Not sure you can call the Heat underrated--they have been at the forefront of every conversation about the NBA in the offseason. They're up there with more coverage than CNN on the spying situation currently going on. They are proverbially covered.

[Michael Jordan.]

Same guys who said Harden wasn't worth the max.

[Clipper Nation]

The Thunderefs are being pretty overrated, it's like the media has forgotten that Westbrook is out for the first few weeks of the season and that they have no depth and bad coaching, tbh....

[Findog]

Clippers are generating hype, even more than early last year, due to the acquisition of Doc Rivers:lmao..

Doc Rivers is black, tbh....

[spurraider21]

Clippers

[JamStone]

Clippers.

Mainly because I think the Bulls have proven that they have some pretty good talent even without Rose. And a good balance at all their positions. And if Jimmy Butler continues to play like he did at the end of last year and/or improve, that covers one of their few holes they did have last season, the shooting guard position. Rose's talent, as long as they can find good chemistry again, only makes them better.

The Clippers obviously have talent too, and I'm still a big fan of Chris Paul. But I don't know how good they can be unless Blake Griffin takes the next step in his development. They lack frontcourt scoring depth. And I'm not sure how the SG spot will work out. They have Jamal Crawford and JJ Redick, but both of them are better suited to come off the bench. Do they start one of them? Do they start Willie Green or the rookie Reggie Bullock (who I do like where they selected him)? Will Matt Barnes play as well as he did last year, particularly as a starter if he does start? Do they lose some defensive tenacity off the bench with the loss of Bledsoe?

I have a lot more questions about the Clippers than I do the Bulls. Both should still be very good teams. But if I have to choose one that will probably not meet expectations, I'd go with the Clippers.

[Ace]

Clippers
Doc is not a difference maker they are making him out to be and he can't fix CP's vagina.

[whitemamba]

clippers tbh, why are the bulls considered overhyped, if rose is healthy, which it looks like it, they are a def threat in the east.

[2pac > Kobe]

clippers, worst franchise in the nba and will never win shit

[Holden_Caulfield]

clippers, they still start deandre :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Bulls still don't have a secondary scorer, which was the same issue they had against Miami in 2011, tbh..

Did I miss something, or did Joakim Noah magically learn to create his own shot?..Luol Deng is on the decline, Boozer is still Boozer..is Jimmy Butler the difference, tbh?:lmao..

[LkrFan]

Bulls or Clippers, tbh?..

I expect both teams to receive a ton of hype going into the playoffs by the vanilla media and fans, tbh..

I'm seeing people all over the Internet picking the Bulls to be the 1 or 2 overall team in the league, despite having virtually the same flaws as the 2011 team..

Clippers are generating hype, even more than early last year, due to the acquisition of Doc Rivers:lmao..
i think the hype for both teams are justified. For the Bulls, with a <100% Wade playing for the Heat, I think they would have taken the Heat out last year (if Rose were healthy and playing). You can't tell me Ray Allen and Battier get the same open looks they were accustomed to getting v. a Thibbs' coached defense. Rose likely would have gotten them over the hump, and there is no repeat.

For the Clipps, they've improved internally, their bench is deep, and they added Doc. Just last year, they were 4th in points allowed, 4th in rebounding, 3rd in point differential, 7th in swats, and 10th in allowed FG%. Those are just defensive stats. LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/defense-per-game/sort/avgThreePointFieldGoalsAttemptedOpponent)

Both teams you are clowning have justified hype. Both have added pieces and improved internally to the extent that they are imminent threats to your Heat. The Nets and Indiana (who added Scola) are too.

[Pelicans78]

Bulls still don't have a secondary scorer, which was the same issue they had against Miami in 2011, tbh..

Did I miss something, or did Joakim Noah magically learn to create his own shot?..Luol Deng is on the decline, Boozer is still Boozer..is Jimmy Butler the difference, tbh?:lmao..

Honestly, I think Jimmy Butler can make some difference. How much is the question.

[SpurSwag]

I think all things considered OKC is the most overrated. This is the same team as last year with no Martin. I see them losing second round to the rockets

[Pelicans78]

The way the Heat struggled to win the championship and still keeping the same roster, it's gonna be hard to win again unless Wade or Bosh make drastic improvements.

[Pelicans78]

The Heat's roster is overrated. It's Lebron and a bunch of complimentary players. Wade is a shell of himself. Bosh is useless. Everyone else is just surrounding support. Lebron has to be even better this season to win a championship since the roster is the same.

[ambchang]

Bulls should be a legitimate threat to win the East, or even the championship. They are not the favourites, but they are certainly a contender. The Bulls last year, with no real scoring threat, finished relatively well. With the addition of Rose, the Bulls are looking at a much improved offense and the same defense, this cannot be a bad thing.

As for the Clippers, I am not sold on Griffin. He has some significant flaws in his game, and his numbers actually regressed last year. His athleticism is top notch, even after the injuries, but a player like that generally gets exposed in the playoffs due to added scouting, defensive focus, and preparation. Chris Paul definitely drives the engine, but the rest of the team can be minimized by a well-coached team with good spacing, passing and sound fundamental defense.

[Captivus]

Wherever team Chris Paul is.

[RsxPiimp]

The correct answer is both. The Clippers are being put into the spotlight not because they're elite but mainly due to the Lakers demise since, Jim took over. Face it, they are a great regular season team that will fizzle once the real contenders in the playoffs brings all their Ace's. They brought Jamison, Dudley when what they needed is another big man that can clean up the glass and defend. They're too perimeter oriented to win a series that will put them in the upper echelon of the league. Grizzlies and Spurs would still tap that ass in 5, 6 if I want to be generous. Heck, they better hope they don't see Houston too because they won't get pass that team either.


And HH is right, the Bulls are practically putting a lot of stock on Jimmy Butler which is absurd because he's a role player that won't get a lot of leeway in the playoffs. Rose will give them a punchers chance against Miami but in all likelihood, they will get shredded by Lebron and company since they are pretty much the same team.


Seriously, if you look at the landscape of this season, practically every contending team out there is overrated because each one is given a pass by completely relying on the "fatigue factor" normally associated with teams that have been to the Finals 3 straight years and ignoring the facts that all these teams have obvious flaws to beat the defending champs.


I must say though, San Antonio is the only one that can honestly beat Miami but their success will largely depend on Duncan replicating that 2012-13 season.


And Houston is definitely underrated. Dwight has a chip on his shoulder. Dumb as he may be, his defensive impact is remarkable. He can definitely take them to a WCF in his first season alone, but I'm not confident on MCHale pushing every fiber in that fiber to reach that extra mile.

[ElNono]

Bulls, IMO. Sure, the defense is going to be there with Thibs, but who's gonna score outside of Rose?

They were getting major contributions from Nate and Belli last season, and now they're gone.

[RsxPiimp]

Bulls should be a legitimate threat to win the East, or even the championship. They are not the favourites, but they are certainly a contender. The Bulls last year, with no real scoring threat, finished relatively well. With the addition of Rose, the Bulls are looking at a much improved offense and the same defense, this cannot be a bad fundamental defense.
Pacers are a lot LOT more threatening to Miami than Chicago honestly.

[timtonymanu]

The Bulls for sure. They have one of the top coaches in the league but their roster is nothing special. Its Rose and a bunch of role players. The Heat would beat them in 5. Heat/Pacers/Nets >>> Bulls.

The Clippers may be overhyped but I think they upgraded their team and they can make the Finals. But I have them behind the Spurs and Rockets.

[hater]

dont' think clips are overrated. Not even their coach believes in them :lol

the Bulls are easily 2nd best team in the East from day 1.

Spurs easily most overrated team right now.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I expect both teams to be the best regular season teams in their respective conferences, tbh, but neither is a legit contender, unless Blake Griffin becomes an elite big IMO..

Derrick Rose could score despite very good man to man defense and scheming designed to limit him. It's why he was an MVP candidate. They were pretty good in the East without him and if he returns to form, they are certainly a contender. Is it a sure thing? No, but just dismissing it out of hand is baseless.

[Ace]

i think the hype for both teams are justified. For the Bulls, with a <100% Wade playing for the Heat, I think they would have taken the Heat out last year (if Rose were healthy and playing). You can't tell me Ray Allen and Battier get the same open looks they were accustomed to getting v. a Thibbs' coached defense. Rose likely would have gotten them over the hump, and there is no repeat.

For the Clipps, they've improved internally, their bench is deep, and they added Doc. Just last year, they were 4th in points allowed, 4th in rebounding, 3rd in point differential, 7th in swats, and 10th in allowed FG%. Those are just defensive stats. LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/defense-per-game/sort/avgThreePointFieldGoalsAttemptedOpponent)

Both teams you are clowning have justified hype. Both have added pieces and improved internally to the extent that they are imminent threats to your Heat. The Nets and Indiana (who added Scola) are too.

Your takes haven't improved one bit :lol

[hater]

you give a feisty bulls team the best PG in the game and you have easily the 2nd best team in the league

not sure what is overrated about that tbh

[Clipper Nation]

you give a feisty bulls team the best PG in the game and you have easily the 2nd best team in the league

not sure what is overrated about that tbh

The Heat have beaten the Bulls both with and without Rose in the past couple years and I've seen nothing to suggest that it'd be any different this year, tbh....

[DPG21920]

It depends on what you mean. IMO they can be overrated, but still be legit and very good teams. Dudley was a good pick up for LAC as well to offset any dip from Barnes that might occur. Their bench was already pretty good with Bledsoe/Jamal last year, but this should be an overall better unit. The key to me is not so much Blake, but Jordan. If he can really make a next step defensively and grow mentally, that would go a long way.

The Bulls should be damn good. Yes, they lack some shooting overall, but Taj Gibson is a stud back up big man. Rose looks healthy and they should be a top defensive team yet again assuming health. I think the Bulls and Clips could both win their respective conferences for sure. They won't dominate and are not the favorites, but they are legit threats to at least make the conference finals. MIA should definitely still be considered the favorites in the East though. They've beat down the Bulls too many times. West is more open.

[baseline bum]

I don't get the Chicago for the title hype. They're supposed to be better than the 2011 team after losing Asik and with Rose still an unknown? And Miami is way better now than the 2011 team that took Chicago in 5 without homecourt. I could see Chicago winning the Finals if they could get there, but to get there they'll need a serious injury to LeBron.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bulls, IMO. Sure, the defense is going to be there with Thibs, but who's gonna score outside of Rose?

They were getting major contributions from Nate and Belli last season, and now they're gone.

Boozer, Hamilton, and Deng can all score. Backups and role players that help score points include Dunleavey and Heinrich.

You replace Robinson with Rose and Belinelli with Dunleavey. Full season with Butler in the rotation. They still have the horses to be an excellent defensive team.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't get the Chicago for the title hype. They're supposed to be better than the 2011 team after losing Asik and with Rose still an unknown? And Miami is way better now than the 2011 team that took Chicago in 5 without homecourt. I could see Chicago winning the Finals if they could get there, but to get there they'll need a serious injury to LeBron.

By this logic only the Heat are contenders.

[hater]

The Heat have beaten the Bulls both with and without Rose in the past couple years and I've seen nothing to suggest that it'd be any different this year, tbh....

never denied that.

The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose. I've seen nothing to suggest that it'd be any different this year

[Brazil]

Clips for me even for RS, vast majority here is putting them on top of the west I don't see it tbh.

now I believe okc is overlooked IMHO. If west brick is back 100% I think they can take the west in RS, playoffs without harden is another animal for them

[HarlemHeat37]

Derrick Rose could score despite very good man to man defense and scheming designed to limit him. It's why he was an MVP candidate. They were pretty good in the East without him and if he returns to form, they are certainly a contender. Is it a sure thing? No, but just dismissing it out of hand is baseless.

PG-led teams without a legitimate secondary option generally aren't real contenders, tbh..

I heard this in 2011 from most people..if you search through ST in 2011, the majority of posters here predicted Chicago would beat Miami, most even predicted it would be easy, while a minority group of us repeated how easily Miami would dismantle them, which was ultimately proven in the ECFs..

That Bulls team had a healthy Rose, a healthy Noah and a prime Luol Deng, compared to this year's team with Rose coming off a major injury, Noah with bad feet, and Deng on the decline..the 2011 Heat were starting Mike Bibby and Joel Anthony, along with minimal chemistry, yet they barely had any problems with the Bulls..

Indiana and Brooklyn will pose a larger threat to the Heat, tbh..

[baseline bum]

By this logic only the Heat are contenders.

Where do you get that from? The Bulls are still as terrible a matchup for the Heat as they were in 2011. They haven't added anyone who can score inside to punish Miami the way Indiana and the Spurs did last season. I suppose Indiana might have a chance against Miami this season if Wade is really banged up again, and that could give Chicago a route to the Finals. Otherwise, I'm not seeing it.

[HarlemHeat37]

Boozer, Hamilton, and Deng can all score. Backups and role players that help score points include Dunleavey and Heinrich.

You replace Robinson with Rose and Belinelli with Dunleavey. Full season with Butler in the rotation. They still have the horses to be an excellent defensive team.

Boozer is one of the least reliable players in NBA history, Hamilton sucks and I'm not even sure if he's on their roster, and Kirk Hinrich had a sub-50% TS despite being a spot-up shooter:lol..come on, bro..

[Leetonidas]

Bulls or Clippers, tbh?..

I expect both teams to receive a ton of hype going into the playoffs by the vanilla media and fans, tbh..

I'm seeing people all over the Internet picking the Bulls to be the 1 or 2 overall team in the league, despite having virtually the same flaws as the 2011 team..

Clippers are generating hype, even more than early last year, due to the acquisition of Doc Rivers:lmao..

qft tbh

The Clippers will never be a real contender with the players around Paul currently. Doc Rivers is the most overrated coach in all of basketball because he lucked out and won a ring when Ainge gave him a superteam and Thibs designed a great defensive system that Doc coat tailed on. Blake Griffin is basically a less talented half-white Amare Stoudemire. And imo CP3 is a fake superstar, he routinely get shat on in the playoffs and Parker usually pushes his shit in head to head. I think they are a very good team but not a great team and to win a title against Miami you need to be a great team. No offense to that nigga Clipper Nation but imo the Clippers' ceiling is WCF.

As for the Bulls, I don't see why everyone is on their balls either. They weren't that great outside of Rose and their team is similar to 2011 and I really don't believe that Derrick Rose is going to come back even better from a knee injury he had to rehab forever for. And besides that I think Rose is pretty overrated to begin with and imo he only got an MVP in 2011 because the media writers didn't want to give it to James in his first season in Miami even though it was clearly how dominant he was.

I think Clippers are on par with Houston and Chicago is a tier below Miami/Brooklyn/Indiana

[LkrFan]

Your takes haven't improved one bit :lol
I see you still have a split personality: HH with the log into (Ace account) and log off (HH) account bads. ;)

I still think the Hype are the favorites. I just so happen to think that their road to a 3-peat will be tougher if the contenders in the EC are healthy. Indiana, Brooklyn, and the Bulls are all legit if healthy. If they get through al of them in route to the Finals, they may very we'll be facing the Clipps (as painful as it is to admit as a Laker fan). On paper, the Clipps are the most complete team in the WC. They match up well with the Hype and won't be overwhelmed athletically like most teams are.

[Ace]

PG-led teams without a legitimate secondary option generally aren't real contenders, tbh..

I heard this in 2011 from most people..if you search through ST in 2011, the majority of posters here predicted Chicago would beat Miami, most even predicted it would be easy, while a minority group of us repeated how easily Miami would dismantle them, which was ultimately proven in the ECFs..

That Bulls team had a healthy Rose, a healthy Noah and a prime Luol Deng, compared to this year's team with Rose coming off a major injury, Noah with bad feet, and Deng on the decline..the 2011 Heat were starting Mike Bibby and Joel Anthony, along with minimal chemistry, yet they barely had any problems with the Bulls..

Indiana and Brooklyn will pose a larger threat to the Heat, tbh..
The goods...

[ElNono]

Boozer, Hamilton, and Deng can all score. Backups and role players that help score points include Dunleavey and Heinrich.

You replace Robinson with Rose and Belinelli with Dunleavey. Full season with Butler in the rotation. They still have the horses to be an excellent defensive team.

I gather by Hamilton you mean RIP? They waived him back in July. Boozer disappears when the going gets though and Deng has been pretty poor the last few seasons.

I just don't see it. Once you take out Rose, their offense is incredibly easy to gameplan against...

[ElNono]

The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose. I've seen nothing to suggest that it'd be any different this year

:lol the Spurs were 2-0 against Chicago last season, and are 4-2 against them the last 3 seasons...

smh

[RsxPiimp]

It's funny how matchup works though, Indiana is my pick to beat Miami but there's a great chance Indiana loses to Chicago if these two meet in the postseason.


Not sold on Brooklyn however, Deron is their biggest question mark going forward. Very similar to that Blazers team.

[Ashy Larry]

Rockets. Clippers are gonna have a great season.

[RsxPiimp]

And the Clippers are not on par with Houston. Houston will be a sloppy team at time in the regular season but come playoff time they have one gear left where as what you see from the Clippers in RS will be the same team come playoff time. Doc Rivers yelling in the sideline will not make this group better. Doc is about to find out how valuable Pierce and KG's leadership come playoff time. CP3 and BG are so raw in that department.

[baseline bum]

Laker fans still salty over the failure of The Begging.

[ambchang]

Pacers are a lot LOT more threatening to Miami than Chicago honestly.

I don't necessarily agree with that.

1st, Pacers are the team that really exposed Miami's only weakness, and that is a weak inside game. The Pacers will have a difficult time going past the Bulls if they were to meet. Also, the Bulls does have the inside muscle to expose Miami's weakness as well.

I think the Pacers are overrated some what. Don't get me wrong, they are a very good team, but I just don't see them going to the Finals. The two East teams that have a legit chance of going to the finals are the Heat and the Bulls.

As for the West, I think the Spurs are the favourites. While the West is better 1 to 8, the top 2 teams of the West aren't really as good as the East. In fact, I can't even really nail down the top two teams in the West.

[RsxPiimp]

I don't necessarily agree with that.

1st, Pacers are the team that really exposed Miami's only weakness, and that is a weak inside game. The Pacers will have a difficult time going past the Bulls if they were to meet. Also, the Bulls does have the inside muscle to expose Miami's weakness as well.

I think the Pacers are overrated some what. Don't get me wrong, they are a very good team, but I just don't see them going to the Finals. The two East teams that have a legit chance of going to the finals are the Heat and the Bulls.

.

Please watch the Bulls-Heat game going on tonight and see why the Bulls are not a threat to Miami, they're still having the same issues scoring the basket, outside Rose, they have zero, zip, nada production.

They shouldve kept Nate to run that second unit, watching this Thibodeau team on offense is like watching a paint goes dry :lol

[Venti Quattro]

Bulls, surely. And I fuckin' hate the Clippers

[leemajors]

Both have a certain degree of being overhyped. I think its a push--you have the Clippers taking the mantra as the better L.A. team and you have the media-blasted return of Derrick Rose in your fact quite often. It will be interesting to see how these two teams end up at the end of the regular season and their quest through the 2nd season.

mantle not mantra tbh

[DPG21920]

Bulls have size, but not post scoring with size. Pacers match up better and that's because they have length and PG is a very great defender (along with their overall team). They can play physical, tough and they have plenty of athletes/size.

People wondering about Dwill on BKY - I think he will be more than fine. He actually had a decent season last year despite not shooting great. He has some injury concerns, but he is still one of the best IMO. You will see that with options around him.

[Findog]

I think all things considered OKC is the most overrated. This is the same team as last year with no Martin. I see them losing second round to the rockets

I don't think OKC is overhyped or overrated. In two years they've turned James Harden into trash spare parts. And Westbrook is gonna miss some games. They went from having three of the top 20 players in the league and a bona fide title contender to just another very good team. They have little depth after Durant and Westbrook. 80 games of Durant and 60-plus games of Westbrook should be enough to get 50+ wins and at least the second round of the playoffs, but I don't think they're expected to ring this year.

[Findog]

Not sold on Brooklyn however, Deron is their biggest question mark going forward. Very similar to that Blazers team.

They have a black coach now, or at least, a half-black coach. Brothers are more likely to listen to one of their own and tend to tune out the white ones not named Jackson or Popovich.

[Findog]

People wondering about Dwill on BKY - I think he will be more than fine. He actually had a decent season last year despite not shooting great. He has some injury concerns, but he is still one of the best IMO. You will see that with options around him.

Jason Kidd is half-black, tbh....

[HarlemHeat37]

Only 2 Black coaches have won a title in the modern era..

One of them had Thibodeau's defensive system as the strength of the team + 3 HOFers in their primes, tbh..

The other had Larry Bird and a stacked team, and all reports from that era claim that he hurt more than helped and generally didn't do much coaching, tbh..

Jason Kidd is a figurehead, though..Lawrence Frank will coach their team..

[Findog]

Only 2 Black coaches have won a title in the modern era..

One of them had Thibodeau's defensive system as the strength of the team + 3 HOFers in their primes, tbh..

The other had Larry Bird and a stacked team, and all reports from that era claim that he hurt more than helped and generally didn't do much coaching, tbh..

Jason Kidd is a figurehead, though..Lawrence Frank will coach their team..

The list is pretty damn short of coaches who have won a title period in the last 25 years, what with Riley, Jackson and Pop having won about 20 of them. 95 percent of NBA coaches don't win titles.

[hater]

:lol the Spurs were 2-0 against Chicago last season, and are 4-2 against them the last 3 seasons...

smh

:lmao typical manutard. rewriting history at a whim

truth is, Bulls with an experienced Rose have wiped the floor with Spurs: 4-1 in from 2009-2012

my point was, in regular season a Rose less Bulls more than handled the Spurs and even Joakim punked Timmy on his own floor with Manu hiding in the corner.

[ambchang]

Please watch the Bulls-Heat game going on tonight and see why the Bulls are not a threat to Miami, they're still having the same issues scoring the basket, outside Rose, they have zero, zip, nada production.

They shouldve kept Nate to run that second unit, watching this Thibodeau team on offense is like watching a paint goes dry :lol

The offense is unimaginative for sure but that doesn't make it a bad team. It's the first game of the year and they haven't Played together as a group in a year and a half. The defense isn't really that great this game either but that doesn't mean they are a bad defensive team. They just need time to gel.

[RsxPiimp]

The offense is unimaginative for sure but that doesn't make it a bad team. It's the first game of the year and they haven't Played together as a group in a year and a half. The defense isn't really that great this game either but that doesn't mean they are a bad defensive team. They just need time to gel.

I never said they're a bad team though, I only implied they're match up horribly against the Heat due to their lack of offense. Miami have Chicago's numbers for the last 3 years. The Heat has improved by addition, Chicago not so much relying heavily on Rose and Jimmy Butler to take them over the hump.

And that other addition (Dunleavy Jr.) is a sad attempt to compensate their deficiencies.

[RsxPiimp]

They have a black coach now, or at least, a half-black coach. Brothers are more likely to listen to one of their own and tend to tune out the white ones not named Jackson or Popovich.

It's a messy situation, I know Kidd was a great leader but the player-player relationship quickly changes when that player becomes a coach. In an 82 game stretch, it gets old after a while. D-Will may start putting Kidd under a different light, once they both realize they're not on the same page, who knows.


Kidd does have a great back up in KG though to make sure his voice and intentions are spread across the locker room and on the court. Still, Brooklyn is running under the pretention that they're a complete team and with a roster like that, it's hard to argue. But something in Deron screams "loser" for some reason. Winning is not in his bones.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I gather by Hamilton you mean RIP? They waived him back in July. Boozer disappears when the going gets though and Deng has been pretty poor the last few seasons.

I just don't see it. Once you take out Rose, their offense is incredibly easy to gameplan against...

Yeah watching the game tonight I definitely did not have as good a feel for the Bulls roster as I thought I did. Dear god was Dunleavy brutal.

[ElNono]

The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.


The Bulls have consistently beaten the Spurs(the supposed 2nd best team in the NBA) with or without Rose.








:lol the Spurs were 2-0 against Chicago last season, and are 4-2 against them the last 3 seasons...

smh





:lmao typical manutard. rewriting history at a whim

:lol hater

[ElNono]

Yeah watching the game tonight I definitely did not have as good a feel for the Bulls roster as I thought I did. Dear god was Dunleavy brutal.

Their defense will be good enough to be top 5 in the east though...

[elmanutres]

bulls. The players around rose suck. Some of them are good like butler but cmon, boozer in the starting 5? The bulls ain't beating the heat unless they get another star. Rose comeback was so overhyped but dam, :lol what a terrible game. You gotta cut some slack cause he's so rusty from not playing for an entire year but still.

[Kool Bob Love]

:lmao typical manutard. rewriting history at a whim

truth is, Bulls with an experienced Rose have wiped the floor with Spurs: 4-1 in from 2009-2012

my point was, in regular season a Rose less Bulls more than handled the Spurs and even Joakim punked Timmy on his own floor with Manu hiding in the corner.

This dude going all the way back to 2009? :lmao

Both teams are sooooooooooooooooooooooo much different now you fuck head.:rollin

[ElNono]

This dude going all the way back to 2009? :lmao

Both teams are sooooooooooooooooooooooo much different now you fuck head.:rollin

:lol he fucked up, now instead of admitting it, he's gonna spin wheels...

prime hater, tbh...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Only 2 Black coaches have won a title in the modern era..

One of them had Thibodeau's defensive system as the strength of the team + 3 HOFers in their primes, tbh..

The other had Larry Bird and a stacked team, and all reports from that era claim that he hurt more than helped and generally didn't do much coaching, tbh..

Jason Kidd is a figurehead, though..Lawrence Frank will coach their team..

It's like the logic from the black QB thread is transported here. Making gratuitous parameters for an affirmative and discounting any positive that makes it through.

I still remember you describing a Lionel Hollins play to end the game as a basic pnr when it was a double screen on the weakside, having Gasol handling the ball moving towards the weakside play to set a screen for Conley on the handoff so he could attack the rim. It completely took Parker out of the play and if not for Splitters ability to change direction laterally --he was going the other way by design-- and presence of mind to make the switch then it would have been a layup. But according to you it was a simple pnr and you shat all over Hollins because it didn't work.

It's pretty obvious that you don't want black coaches to succeed in the NBA.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's like the logic from the black QB thread is transported here. Making gratuitous parameters for an affirmative and discounting any positive that makes it through.

I still remember you describing a Lionel Hollins play to end the game as a basic pnr when it was a double screen on the weakside, having Gasol handling the ball moving towards the weakside play to set a screen for Conley on the handoff so he could attack the rim. It completely took Parker out of the play and if not for Splitters ability to change direction laterally --he was going the other way by design-- and presence of mind to make the switch then it would have been a layup. But according to you it was a simple pnr and you shat all over Hollins because it didn't work.

It's pretty obvious that you don't want black coaches to succeed in the NBA.


MEMPHIS, Tenn. -- The Memphis Grizzlies had a chance to win this game and get back in this series, and given what's happening in the East -- given how vulnerable the Miami Heat suddenly appear to be -- that means the Grizzlies had a chance to remain a serious contender for an NBA championship.

But to do all of that they needed to dial up a great play on the final possession of regulation to win Game 3 of the Western Conference finals -- and there's a problem with that:

The Grizzlies don't have plays they can dial up. Not great plays. Not good plays. Not any plays. The Grizzles give the ball to their point guard -- either Mike Conley or Jerryd Bayless or even Keyon Dooling, if coach Lionel Hollins is in one of his moods -- and hope he can make something happen.

Conley is so good that he often does make something happen. Bayless, too, on occasion. Dooling? No. Not him. Not ever. But anyway, that's the Memphis offense: Give the ball to the point guard. Send center Marc Gasol to the top of the key for the pick-and-roll. See what happens next.

Let's be clear about something: That's not a "play" -- that's a "wish" -- though I'm not sure Hollins or Conley know the difference. More on that in a minute.

For now, keep in mind that the score was tied in the final 20 seconds of regulation and the Grizzles were down 2-0 to the San Antonio Spurs. Needing a bucket to avoid overtime and win this game and get back into the series, Hollins called timeout and didn't call a play. He made a wish.

It failed spectacularly, the game went to overtime and the Spurs pulled away to win 104-93 and take a 3-0 lead in the Western Conference finals.

The second question to Hollins in his postgame press conference was about the wish at the end of regulation. He gave the ball to Conley, who was having a bad game. He called for a pick-and-roll with Gasol, who was having a bad game. Hollins put the most important play of the Grizzlies' season into the hands of two very good players having two very bad games -- and what do you know? The Grizzles got a very bad shot.

Conley tried to win it with a running hunk of crap off the glass that didn't even hit the rim. And so the question for Hollins was this:
Was that the shot you wanted?

"No," Hollins said, then stretched the truth like taffy. "I tried to get him to the basket ..."

Conley was going with the same fiction, saying that Hollins "drew up a play to try to get into the paint, let me make a play."
See, that's an interesting choice of words.

Drew up a play ...

Hollins doesn't draw up plays. The pick-and-roll requires no 'X's and only one 'O' -- the one in the word "roll." Occasionally he has a grease board in his hands, but that thing must be for show. Not like he's drawing anything on it. Hollins called timeout with 19 seconds left in regulation, and while I wasn't in the Grizzlies' huddle, I imagine he used the grease board to scribble three words:

Pick and roll.

Maybe he drew a smiley face, too. Hollins is a genuinely nice guy.
That stuff worked in the Western Conference semifinals against Oklahoma City because the Thunder have a similar coach to Hollins. Oklahoma City's Scott Brooks is a players' coach, which is to say, he's not an X-and-O coach. His team wins for the same reason the Grizzlies win -- because the players like the coach, and they play hard for him on both ends, and in the NBA that's enough to win more games than you lose. So when the games were close in that series and Hollins was writing the words "pick and roll" on his grease board, that was enough for the Grizzles to win. Somebody had to win, right? Without a great coach on either sideline, it came down to the players. Seeing how the Thunder were going without Russell Westbrook, the Grizzles had more good players. They won to advance to the Western Conference finals.

But here's the thing: The Spurs are not the Thunder. Not even close. There are a lot of reasons, one named Tim Duncan and another named Tony Parker and another namedManu Ginobili. But another reason San Antonio is not Oklahoma City is because Gregg Popovich is not Scott Brooks.

So when the game is on the line and Hollins is going over his smorgasbord of offensive options -- Let's see, do I dial up a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-roll or, what the hell, a pick-and-roll? -- Popovich is in the other huddle grinning, or whatever passes for a grin with that sardonic SOB. He knows what's coming. So do his players. Since the Grizzlies don't have a player so good that he can make a great play when the other side knows exactly what's coming, they end up with a Mike Conley hunk of crap off the glass.

They end up in overtime, getting run off the court, their crowd getting the hell out of the FedEx Forum with a minute left and the team trailing by seven because let's be honest: Memphis isn't rallying from a seven-point hole in the final minute with the pick-and-roll. That's like Oklahoma, back in the day when it ran the wishbone, rallying from a three-touchdown deficit in the fourth quarter. Just not going to happen, not then or now. Certainly not against a team as intelligent as the Spurs.

In the locker room after the game, though, the Grizzlies were lamenting their defense -- as if that's what lost this game. Kind of cute, really. The Grizzlies held the Spurs to 40 points in the first half, and 86 points in regulation, and they think they lost because of defense? Wrong. They lost because they couldn't muster a measly 87 points in regulation. Not on a night when Conley and Gasol were going a combined 15-for-39 with seven turnovers. Not when Zach Randolph was dominating the offensive boards and using all of those opportunities to go 5-for-14 from the floor and 4-for-8 from the line.

But the Grizzlies see themselves as a defensive team, which means they don't blame their offense for losses even when their offense is to blame for losses. And so Marc Gasolsaid the Grizzlies lost because Tony Parker was wreaking havoc on offense. And Tony Allen concurred: "Tony Parker was picking us apart."

Parker was 11 of 22 from the floor. He had five assists and seven turnovers. That's not a great offensive game. Not even a very good one.
Defense didn't lose this game for the Grizzlies. Offense did.

Hollins has two days to try to dial up some more offense, but don't count on much in the way of adjustments. Maybe he'll write the words "pick and roll" in another color. Maybe red. Maybe blue.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's also widely recognized that Joergens is the brains behind Memphis's renowned defense, not Hollins..their defense has been the only reason they have been a borderline contender, obviously..

Black coaches are generally motivators that allow their White assistants to architect their system/call plays, tbh..

I can't think of a Black coach that brought an innovative approach to basketball, tbh..I wouldn't want a Black coach or a Black QB, just like I wouldn't want a White star basketball player or White football player at a speed position..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And.... so you have someone that thinks that is a standard pnr as well. I just described the play to you. Did what I describe sound like a 'pick and roll.' Who was the roller? I am curious.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's also widely recognized that Joergens is the brains behind Memphis's renowned defense, not Hollins..their defense has been the only reason they have been a borderline contender, obviously..

Black coaches are generally motivators that allow their White assistants to architect their system/call plays, tbh..

I can't think of a Black coach that brought an innovative approach to basketball, tbh..I wouldn't want a Black coach or a Black QB, just like I wouldn't want a White star basketball player or White football player at a speed position..

You don't need to repeat your same drivel. And widely accepted my ass. You accept it but don't speak for others.

[HarlemHeat37]

Link me a video to the play you're referring to, tbh..

You're the same guy that said Rip Hamilton and Kirk Hinrich are reliable scorers in the other thread, to be fair..

[HarlemHeat37]

You don't need to repeat your same drivel. And widely accepted my ass. You accept it but don't speak for others.

It is widely recognized that Jorgens is their defensive architect, actually:lol..

[HarlemHeat37]

And give me an example of an innovative Black NBA coach, too, please..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Link me a video to the play you're referring to, tbh..

You're the same guy that said Rip Hamilton and Kirk Hinrich are reliable scorers in the other thread, to be fair..

:lol having issues addressing my points? so you are going for past mistakes of mine to try and discredit me. Bush league bullshit.

I said Heinrich helps score points. I didn't say he was a scorer but he does well distributing the ball and running an offense. The ESPN rosters were not updated and I thought Hamilton was still on the team. Now please explain what bearing that has on the play Hollins drew up in game 3 last season.

Your entire argument is to pick a top white assistant of a successful black coach give all the credit to him and then claim that everyone accepts it as true. Oh and grandstanding on obvious shitty coaches like Avery Johnson. It's the age old condescending bullshit.

OaxppBhlB1A

This is the designed play in question. I misremembered. It was Leonard that was taken completely out of the play. Does that look like a 'give the ball to Conley and hope for the best?'

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think that's the play you're referring to, I wouldn't have called that a pick&roll:lol..

What was special about that play call, tbh?..

And again, give me an example of an innovative Black coach or a Black coach with an intricate, game changing system?..

I can provide many examples of White coaches creating/utilizing game-changing systems, and I can provide many examples of Black coaches that deferred to their White assistants for X's and O's..

[HarlemHeat37]

Another example of Lionel Hollins's incompetence is his refusal to acknowledge advanced stats, which is an antiquated, Black coach mentality, tbh..

Popovich, Thibodeau, Vogel, Carlisle and Spoelstra are all advocates of the usage of advanced numbers, the wave of the present/future, tbh..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And give me an example of an innovative Black NBA coach, too, please..

I thought the play we are talking about here was quite innovative. The action on the weakside lopping conley around a double screen was sweet and using Gasol as the primary ball handler was 'innovative.' I think it oculd have been executed better with Gasol waiting for Conely to be coming back off the double screen to make his move but it did wipe Leonard, a top defender, completely out of the play.

So what white assistant do you want to give credit to for it?

[Rogue]

Kidd has the potential to make a great coach but I think it's a quite different thing to be an on-court leader than being an off-court leader, imho. nigga needs some time to adapt to his role

[HarlemHeat37]

I thought the play we are talking about here was quite innovative. The action on the weakside lopping conley around a double screen was sweet and using Gasol as the primary ball handler was 'innovative.' I think it oculd have been executed better with Gasol waiting for Conely to be coming back off the double screen to make his move but it did wipe Leonard, a top defender, completely out of the play.

So what white assistant do you want to give credit to for it?

:lol calling a good play out of a timeout once in a while = a great and innovative system?..ok..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Another example of Lionel Hollins's incompetence is his refusal to acknowledge advanced stats, which is an antiquated, Black coach mentality, tbh..

Popovich, Thibodeau, Vogel, Carlisle and Spoelstra are all advocates of the usage of advanced numbers, the wave of the present/future, tbh..

He said that because Hollinger was a motivating factor in moving Rudy Gay. That was what the interview was about. Seeing how dysfunctional their offense with Prince as the replacement I can see why. That was a shitty trade for the Grizz.

[The Third Man]

Thibodeau was the brains behind the Celtics defensive schemes that established Doc Rivers as an A-list coach. He should cut Tom in with 25% of all of his future earnings. The Bulls will be there with a top seed because their coach will grind them to a pulp to squeeze every win possible. They probably need another shooter, though.

[DPG21920]

He said that because Hollinger was a motivating factor in moving Rudy Gay. That was what the interview was about. Seeing how dysfunctional their offense with Prince as the replacement I can see why. That was a shitty trade for the Grizz.

Not really tbh. They Grizz got the furthest they had ever been with Rudy gone. Won their first playoff series when Rudy was hurt IIRC too.

[HarlemHeat37]

Just Harlem doing what Harlem does, tbh..

[Findog]

Another example of Lionel Hollins's incompetence is his refusal to acknowledge advanced stats, which is an antiquated, Black coach mentality, tbh..

Popovich, Thibodeau, Vogel, Carlisle and Spoelstra are all advocates of the usage of advanced numbers, the wave of the present/future, tbh..

Yeah, it's a bit of a trade-off with the brother coaches/managers. They usually get their players to buy into the team concept and play hard for them, but they don't always have the X's and O's mastered. Think Lionel Hollins, Ron Washington, etc...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol calling a good play out of a timeout once in a while = a great and innovative system?..ok..

Well at least you admit now that it is a good play so we are making progress. Hollins does things like that but what I have really liked about his teams is his ability to identify and exploit mismatches. It is precisely why he roached us two years ago. Mark Jackson does an excellent job of that as well.

[spurraider21]

Just Harlem doing what Harlem does, tbh..
not bad

still think Clippers are more overhyped. Bulls were a rock solid team last year that needed a go to scorer. granted, miami can stick lebron on him and thats that, but they'll be better than last year.

the only thing the clippers added was a black coach

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not really tbh. They Grizz got the furthest they had ever been with Rudy gone. Won their first playoff series when Rudy was hurt IIRC too.

So you think that was a good trade for the Grizz?

[SpurSwag]

I don't think OKC is overhyped or overrated. In two years they've turned James Harden into trash spare parts. And Westbrook is gonna miss some games. They went from having three of the top 20 players in the league and a bona fide title contender to just another very good team. They have little depth after Durant and Westbrook. 80 games of Durant and 60-plus games of Westbrook should be enough to get 50+ wins and at least the second round of the playoffs, but I don't think they're expected to ring this year.

I was watching NBA TV open court and reading some articles, a lot of people are expecting them to come out of the west. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll ring, but to me that's overrating them. I really don't see much besides 2nd round, MAYBE WCF

[DMC]

Overhyped = Blake Griffin

Derrick Rose has proven himself, but needs to recommit to doing it this year. The Clippers are trash, because Blake is a liability, and so is Jordan. CP3 is good, but he cannot throw lobs all night. At some point someone is going to need to run some plays and when those plays are disrupted violently, someone needs to step up to the line and make it count. That's not going to be the Clippers.

I'd consider the Bulls to be a threat however. They just need to get their rhythm back.

[DMC]

Well at least you admit now that it is a good play so we are making progress. Hollins does things like that but what I have really liked about his teams is his ability to identify and exploit mismatches. It is precisely why he roached us two years ago. Mark Jackson does an excellent job of that as well.

Doc and Mark have other things in common. They both play their starters too long, and they don't know anything about using their benches.

[Chief Brody]

HarlemHeat37 called the shit out of this in the OP

[DMC]

HarlemHeat37 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597) called the shit out of this in the OP

1st game means nothing. The two teams (Bulls and Clippers) will put space between themselves by Christmas. There's no Ubuntu in LA, and the Bulls were good even without the MVPussy.

[Chief Brody]

1st game means nothing. The two teams (Bulls and Clippers) will put space between themselves by Christmas. There's no Ubuntu in LA, and the Bulls were good even without the MVPussy.

Nobody doubts this, but they're both still massively overrated and did nothing to help dispel that notion out of the gate.

[DMC]

Nobody doubts this, but they're both still massively overrated and did nothing to help dispel that notion out of the gate.

I don't think the Bulls are overrated. The Clippers are overrated, they are an unhatched egg being counted as a chicken. The Bulls were just crippled chickens.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think that's the play you're referring to, I wouldn't have called that a pick&roll:lol..

What was special about that play call, tbh?..

And again, give me an example of an innovative Black coach or a Black coach with an intricate, game changing system?..

I can provide many examples of White coaches creating/utilizing game-changing systems, and I can provide many examples of Black coaches that deferred to their White assistants for X's and O's..

What was special about it? Other than talking Leonard completely out of the lane and looking like Gary Neal lost out of the shuffle? It was a good playcall that would have worked if not for a better heads up switch by Splitter.

I think the better question is what do you think that makes say Thibodeau or Popovich so innovative?

You think bringing your double teams from the baseline or zoning behind pnr is innovative? You think overloading the playside and zoning up the weakside is innovative? NBA coaches taking advantage of zone principles is one thing but calling the schemes innovative is pretty ignorant if you ask me. There is a reason why Popovich says what he says when asked about schematic questions like he does.

It's funny. You don't think that Popovich leaned on Carlesimo? You don't think Vogel leans on Burke? You don't think Spoelstra leans on Rothstein? The list goes on but in your world if a coach gets ideas from someone else then that means they 'defer' to that person and they are just rah rah guys.

[Chief Brody]

I don't think the Bulls are overrated. The Clippers are overrated, they are an unhatched egg being counted as a chicken. The Bulls were just crippled chickens.

They will win at least 55, but there's just no way you can realistically see them beating the Heat with such limited offensive skill.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doc and Mark have other things in common. They both play their starters too long, and they don't know anything about using their benches.

I don't think you can say that about Hollins. Inserting Poindexter and Bayless for Prince and Allen was a great adjustment that at least gave them a fighting chance. I'm sure some white coach told him to do that because it was a good move though.

[DMC]

I don't think you can say that about Hollins. Inserting Poindexter and Bayless for Prince and Allen was a great adjustment that at least gave them a fighting chance. I'm sure some white coach told him to do that because it was a good move though.

Never heard of Mark or Doc Hollins. I don't think all black coaches coach alike, it's a ludicrous claim. No reason to entertain it. Hollins is a good coach, he just had a soft ass pussy in Gasol and a question mark in Randolph. Neither played to their potential that series, but then they were so shocked to be in the WCF I think they felt the season was over anyhow.

[DMC]

They will win at least 55, but there's just no way you can realistically see them beating the Heat with such limited offensive skill.

Fuck no. Pacers or Heat. No one else stands even an outside chance short of injury issues.

[Chief Brody]

Lionel Hollins wore neat suits and played the part well, though.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think you can say that about Hollins. Inserting Poindexter and Bayless for Prince and Allen was a great adjustment that at least gave them a fighting chance. I'm sure some white coach told him to do that because it was a good move though.

:lol I repeated that the Grizzlies should be playing Pondexter and Bayless in every thread during that series, I can bump at least 5 posts where I pointed out that it's an obvious adjustment, and I don't consider myself to be a genius, it's a simple move..it's sad that it took Hollins like 2 games to realize..

Exposing mismatches that are presented to you is basic basketball that 100% of coaches are able to do, tbh..Harrison Barnes was inefficient against Neal/Parker, the rest of their team didn't get involved, I think Pop was content with the result..once Leonard shadowed Klay Thompson, the Warriors didn't make any effective adjustments, also..

I'm not blindly stating that these coaches "lean" on their assistants..it's been widely reported from several sources that my examples of assistants weren't just coaches that were "leaned" on, but they were coaches that actually designed the systems and called the X's and O's(Doc-Thibs, Mark Jackson-Malone, Mike Brown-Kuester, etc)..

And I don't think all Black coaches are "bad", just mostly average and vanilla..most players that become coaches are shitty coaches, there are only a few exceptions, and most NBA players are obviously Black..

[Findog]

I think you gotta give Mark Jackson some credit as a guy who can really reach his players and buy into what he's selling and play hard for him.

[Findog]

Mike Brown is another guy that comes to mind that has earned the trust of his players. The players tend to see him as one of the guys.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think you gotta give Mark Jackson some credit as a guy who can really reach his players and buy into what he's selling and play hard for him.

I agree, Black coaches are great motivators, but everybody knows Mike Malone designed their system and called their X's and O's..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol I repeated that the Grizzlies should be playing Pondexter and Bayless in every thread during that series, I can bump at least 5 posts where I pointed out that it's an obvious adjustment, and I don't consider myself to be a genius, it's a simple move..it's sad that it took Hollins like 2 games to realize..

Exposing mismatches that are presented to you is basic basketball that 100% of coaches are able to do, tbh..Harrison Barnes was inefficient against Neal/Parker, the rest of their team didn't get involved, I think Pop was content with the result..once Leonard shadowed Klay Thompson, the Warriors didn't make any effective adjustments, also..

I'm not blindly stating that these coaches "lean" on their assistants..it's been widely reported from several sources that my examples of assistants weren't just coaches that were "leaned" on, but they were coaches that actually designed the systems and called the X's and O's(Doc-Thibs, Mark Jackson-Malone, Mike Brown-Kuester, etc)..

And I don't think all Black coaches are "bad", just mostly average and vanilla..most players that become coaches are shitty coaches, there are only a few exceptions, and most NBA players are obviously Black..

While the Celtics rand Thibodeau's system that does not mean that Rivers sat there with his thumb up his ass. For example I found


Though Thibodeau was the original mastermind behind the Celtics' stellar defense, Rivers is now more than capable of upholding the system and teaching it to incoming players. Here's roughly how it works: The Celtics send everything away from the middle of the court -- especially when facing wing isolations and side pick-and-rolls -- then arrange help defenders to overplay any drives to the baseline or passes back to the middle. The result is that opponents have trouble moving the ball from one side of the court to the other, rendering the offense predictable and thus ineffective.

On offense, Rivers is a master of misdirection and has become one of the premier tacticians on sideline out-of-bounds plays. Even when the odds are stacked against him, he’ll find a way to use screen-the-screener actions to get Ray Allen wide open for a big 3-pointer. He likes to use the same play multiple times in a season, each time adding a new wrinkle that takes advantage of his opponent’s scouting report.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/44097/the-book-on-doc-rivers

Quite frankly your characterizations are little more than gratuitous snark. Very big on generalizations and very little on actual specifics.

I also note that you make these claims and qualify them with shit like 'widely accepted' and leave it at that. You then follow it with characterizations making it completely one sided. How about some links? I have already discredited the notion that Hollins cannot call good plays out of timeouts.

It just seems to me that you have a poor grasp of management and leadership and see many tenants of that to be weakness.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I agree, Black coaches are great motivators, but everybody knows Mike Malone designed their system and called their X's and O's..

and here it is again. everybody knows <generalization>.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bro, your examples are terrible..

Read the first line of your link: Thibodeau was the original mastermind, but Doc is capable of upholding the system..

:lmao you're giving him credit for using the principles that Thibodeau had already instilled and taught the Celtics, particularly their core players..

Then you give me an example of "exposing mismatches", which is one of the simplest concepts in coaching that any of us could do:lol..

Then you give me an example of 1 decent Lionel Hollins play call that failed miserable, and claim he has a good system:lol..

I'm generalizing and not giving links because these are all common sentiments that most Internet basketball fans already know, tbh, it's a waste of time..there is a ton of material that shows assistant White coaches running the system and X's and O's while the Black figurehead motivates and leads..sorry..

[Findog]

I agree, Black coaches are great motivators, but everybody knows Mike Malone designed their system and called their X's and O's..
'
Similar to the upcoming Kidd-Frank pairing. We know Frank will do a lot of heavy lifting in day to day planning and prep. Kidd is more of like a Tribal Chief, who will decide important issues that come before him while Frank does the nuts and bolts of coaching the team.

[Findog]

If I'm an NBA GM, I'm liking the idea of the Affable Black Guy/Brainaic Hard-working lead white assistant model. It's like you get the best of both worlds...

[Findog]

if I'm a Nets fan, I'm not worried too much about Kidd. I think he will coach these guys up just as good as he wraps his car around a tree.

[HI-FI]

If I'm an NBA GM, I'm liking the idea of the Affable Black Guy/Brainaic Hard-working lead white assistant model. It's like you get the best of both worlds...

:lol

that actually makes a lot of sense. the only way a guy like Popovich works is if you have guys like Robinson or Duncan, but they are hard to find. I think your model makes the most sense, it's reverse racism but ultimately it's a player's league. You can also have a Popovich if you have smarter, Euro players playing as well.

[Chief Brody]

Bro, your examples are terrible..

Read the first line of your link: Thibodeau was the original mastermind, but Doc is capable of upholding the system..

:lmao you're giving him credit for using the principles that Thibodeau had already instilled and taught the Celtics, particularly their core players..

Then you give me an example of "exposing mismatches", which is one of the simplest concepts in coaching that any of us could do:lol..

Then you give me an example of 1 decent Lionel Hollins play call that failed miserable, and claim he has a good system:lol..

I'm generalizing and not giving links because these are all common sentiments that most Internet basketball fans already know, tbh, it's a waste of time..there is a ton of material that shows assistant White coaches running the system and X's and O's while the Black figurehead motivates and leads..sorry..
http://www.4thletter.net/damnnn.gif

[Chief Brody]

To be fair, Fuzzy loves parading black causes on all subforums without any actual, real world knowledge (and interaction with) of the black man.

[HI-FI]

To be fair, Fuzzy loves parading black causes on all subforums without any actual, real world knowledge (and interaction with) of the black man.
I don't think he's black, but he's probably mulatto with how much he argues about this shit. probably a Malcolm Gladwell type imho.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bro, your examples are terrible..

Read the first line of your link: Thibodeau was the original mastermind, but Doc is capable of upholding the system..

:lmao you're giving him credit for using the principles that Thibodeau had already instilled and taught the Celtics, particularly their core players..

Then you give me an example of "exposing mismatches", which is one of the simplest concepts in coaching that any of us could do:lol..

Then you give me an example of 1 decent Lionel Hollins play call that failed miserable, and claim he has a good system:lol..

Grandstanding is great but the article also stated that Rivers ran the offense and was great at calling plays out of timeouts that worked. Not the oneside bullshit you bandy about.

You claim that exposing mismatches is something incredibly easy but as usual you back it up with nothing but a flippant comment about how you could do it but Hollins did it in such a way that it almost turned the tide. There are notions like gameplanning and actually trying to see something through that go into managing a game. He did increase those twos minutes very quickly. You can see that in Pondexter's game log

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4253/quincy-pondexter

You also make a flippant comment about how Barnes was ineffective. Nevermind that he averaged 17 and 7 for the series which was 8 points and 4 rebounds better than his season average.

I also didn't just give an example of 1 play. You gave that example and were right on the ball in providing a link for it. Funny how you could provide that link but cannot for the rest. All I did was demonstrate that you nor the author know what you are talking about.


I'm generalizing and not giving links because these are all common sentiments that most Internet basketball fans already know, tbh, it's a waste of time..there is a ton of material that shows assistant White coaches running the system and X's and O's while the Black figurehead motivates and leads..sorry..

You should be sorry because all you are doing is demonstrating that you cannot back up what you claim with proof. I am not going to characterize it more than that because it's not really necessary. What I will do was point out that your article about Hollins earlier clearly did not describe the play in question in any way that resembled reality and that the article I found did not corroborate your one sided narrative of your black stereotype.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

To be fair, Fuzzy loves parading black causes on all subforums without any actual, real world knowledge (and interaction with) of the black man.

What race do you think I am?

Quite frankly seeing that the writer of the weekly black QB thread and the champion of the black coaches schtick seem to share the same brain, I don't find your opinion any more meaningful that the other.

[Chief Brody]

What race do you think I am?

Quite frankly seeing that the writer of the weekly black QB thread and the champion of the black coaches schtick seem to share the same brain, I don't find your opinion any more meaningful that the other.
You're welcome to submit any factual errors to the BQRC, we're not above the rare one. For instance, the editor acknowledged an error about RW having a white parent. Evidence in the MNF game clearly showed us that wasn't so.

tbh who knows what your race is. I just love that your libdar goes crazy whenever a black man is slighted on this forum:lol

[hater]

This dude going all the way back to 2009? :lmao

Both teams are sooooooooooooooooooooooo much different now you fuck head.:rollin

ya we had Manu. now we have a washed up argentine :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're welcome to submit any factual errors to the BQRC, we're not above the rare one. For instance, the editor acknowledged an error about RW having a white parent. Evidence in the MNF game clearly showed us that wasn't so.

That is the thing you use facts sparingly in your evaluation and quite often comments like "Cam Newton threw for 3 TD but it is meaningless" when you do. Like two weeks ago you just don't write it when the players do well. It's mostly snark where you ignore or downplay the good and grandstand on the bad.

[Chief Brody]

That is the thing you use facts sparingly in your evaluation and quite often comments like "Cam Newton threw for 3 TD but it is meaningless" when you do. Like two weeks ago you just don't write it when the players do well. It's mostly snark where you ignore or downplay the good and grandstand on the bad.
I'll have you know that based on the suggestion of one of our minority readers we are adding a White QB Addendum to the BQRC. The minority has a voice among our loyal readers, so I resent your accusations.

[Sean Cagney]

Overhyped and/or Overrated:

1. Rox
2. Clips
3. Bulls
4. Pacers

Underrated:
1. Heat (shocking)
2. Spurs (mildly shocking)
3. Mavs (think RC and Dirk will surprise some folks)
This is actually dead on IMO.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lmao Bulls believers, tbh..

[hater]

law of averages tells you everything tends to go back to the median.

even with a shitty Rose, bulls will eventually get it together to be good enough to win a couple of series. IMO East Finals will be attended by either Brooklyn, Chicago or Indiana still.

On the other hand, the Clips/Rockets have no chance in hell in round 1 (unless they face each other or face an inured team) :lol

Clips + Rockets are so overrated compared to Bulls, they belong in a different stratosphere

[HarlemHeat37]

Bulls will be good enough to be a top 3 seed because of coaching/system and reverting to the means, but they have the same issues they've always had, which is lack of scoring options..I still don't know why so many people ignored that and picked them to win the East this year, tbh..

[testies]

I think regular season friendly teams tend to be overhyped, like the Clippers and Rockets

whenever people force Clippers to play half court and pressure Paul, they look pretty bad.. I don't even think Griffin is a good player anymore, let alone an all star....I've watched him a lot this year, he just looks terrible posting up and he's kind of small too.. outside shot is very average too... I think the team will go as JJ Reddick goes, he's been playing very well.. But if I had to bet my house, Clippers would lose to any tactically sound team like us, or the Grizzlies, yet again

The Rockets just look completely disordered.. I don' trust McHale's coaching too.. honestly, their offense looks as unorganized as the Knicks, and the defence looks all over the place.. of course they can progress during the season, but they just look average as hell

[apalisoc_9]

Why isn't the warriors on OP's option?

Seriously one of the most overrated teams in the west right now. If your two best players can't defend for shit, you're not going to win shit...

[Malik Hairston]

Bulls will be good enough to be a top 3 seed because of coaching/system and reverting to the means, but they have the same issues they've always had, which is lack of scoring options..I still don't know why so many people ignored that and picked them to win the East this year, tbh..

So, it's already beginning, tbh:lol..another off-season of unjustified Bulls hype coming up..

[spurraider21]

So, it's already beginning, tbh:lol..another off-season of unjustified Bulls hype coming up..
imagine the storylines if they land Melo tbh. combined with The Return 2.0

[Malik Hairston]

Lkrfan with additional kisses of death in this thread, adding to his resume, tbh:lol..

[IrisHockey]

:lmao Chicago fans are the dumbest on the planet, in EVERY sport.

[Robz4000]

Hornets78 made some solid predictions in the beginning of this thread tbh.

[Malik Hairston]

:lmao Chicago fans are the dumbest on the planet, in EVERY sport.

:lol they really are the worst, tbh..

[Malik Hairston]

Hornets78 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15164) made some solid predictions in the beginning of this thread tbh.

Not surprising, one of the most underrated posters, tbh..

[Pelicans78]

Not surprising, one of the most underrated posters, tbh..

I can be solid when I take my emotions out of it.

[Raven]

dont' think clips are overrated. Not even their coach believes in them :lol

the Bulls are easily 2nd best team in the East from day 1.

Spurs easily most overrated team right now.
:lol

[ElNono]

dont' think clips are overrated. Not even their coach believes in them :lol

the Bulls are easily 2nd best team in the East from day 1.

Spurs easily most overrated team right now.

:lol wow, this gem

:lmao

[ElNono]

What's the word on Rose? Is he coming back?

[Raven]

What's the word on Rose? Is he coming back?

according to reports he is ready and waiting and have been since around the end of the regular, which is not surprising since his injury really wasn't that bad. He said he wants to play for team usa (incredibly retarded imo), so we may see him soon (although i can't find a reason why would a coach want him on the team).

[DPG21920]

Not surprising, one of the most underrated posters, tbh..

If Rose is healthy (huge if) & the pick up Melo (again, if) do you not think with the additional scoring they can be a legit threat to win the East? They still lack depth/scoring overall, but Melo goes a long way to help that department at a position of need.

It seems like if Rose is healthy, they now have a legit 2nd offensive option and enough defensive players (Taj/Noah/Butler) in addition to scheme to cover up for Melo.

The East is just so bad and depending on what MIA does to add depth, it could be wide open.

[Malik Hairston]

I think they would be legit with Carmelo, I just don't understand why people kept hyping up a team led by Derrick Rose and without a legit #2 creator, and no offensive bigs:lol(don't say Boozer, smh)..

[Robz4000]

Not sold on the Bulls being better than Miami/Indy until I see how Rose looks. If he's about 75-80% of what he used to be and they get Melo, they leapfrog Indy. If he's less than 50 :lol...

[DMC]

I'm not sure Melo is willing to put in the work to be a contender. I think he's chasing stats.

[ElNono]

Nothing really matters in the East until we hear what's happening to the Heatles, IMO

[Malik Hairston]

I'm not sure Melo is willing to put in the work to be a contender. I think he's chasing stats.

I do question whether Carmelo could play for a hard-ass, demanding coach, tbh..

[florige]

I'm not sure Melo is willing to put in the work to be a contender. I think he's chasing stats.

Why wouldn't he just stay in NY then? There are no real expectations there if he did decide to stay. He could shoot his usual 15 for 45 and score his 30 points a night and no one would more than likely care.

[100%duncan]

Meh, it should have been the Pacers last year and also this coming season.

[The Batman]

Why wouldn't he just stay in NY then? There are no real expectations there if he did decide to stay. He could shoot his usual 15 for 45 and score his 30 points a night and no one would more than likely care.
This.

[DMC]

Why wouldn't he just stay in NY then? There are no real expectations there if he did decide to stay. He could shoot his usual 15 for 45 and score his 30 points a night and no one would more than likely care.
Because Phil is there now, that team isn't going to remain soft. Regardless, I think he will stay in NY for the reason you just stated.

[Malik Hairston]

Man, listening to some podcasts lately, the Bulls are getting overhyped once again, tbh:lol..

This will be the 4th out of the last 5 seasons that the Bulls are severely overhyped by the media and fans..smh..

:( But Rose is making 3s for team USA and added 10 inches to his vertical :(

:( But we added 38 year old Gasol :(

:( Some guy from Europe is the next Dirk :(

[spurraider21]

they're probably overhyped, but the east is so pathetically weak at this point that i can't really rule them out. Bulls minus Rose would still push Cavs minus Varejao imo

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Bulls

[Clipper Nation]

The only things worth discussing about the Bulls are whether Rose will play one or two games this season and which horrible coach the "genius" Thibs will choke to in the playoffs :lol

[spurraider21]

The only things worth discussing about the Bulls are whether Rose will play one or two games this season and which horrible coach the "genius" Thibs will choke to in the playoffs :lol
i'm not a big fan of the bulls atm, but i feel like cleveland won't be all that great if/when Varejao goes down

[HemisfairArena]

i'm not a big fan of the bulls atm, but i feel like cleveland won't be all that great if/when Varejao goes down

LMAO,,,do you or ElHomo even now basketball? LeBron/Irving/Love will fold if Varejao goes down,,,,,Christ.

[Malik Hairston]

Apparently Rose's knees are already looking terrible:lol..

Overhyped once again, clockwork..when will people learn, tbh?..

[kobe4life]

I would say the Thunder,Clippers, and Bulls are the most hyped teams. 3 teams that aren't going to win shit next year.

[jimbo]

i'm not a big fan of the bulls atm, but i feel like cleveland won't be all that great if/when Varejao goes down

Well who do they even have at center in that case? Tristan Thompson? Haywood? lol Cavs at that point. All the offense in the world can't save you then.

and lol at Lebron for teaming up with a team of glass men. I'd die laughing if Kyrie, Love, and Varejao all end up injured at the same time.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's amazing, 2 years later and both teams are still all hype and no results, tbh:lol..

The Clippers' hype has died down, but the Bulls were still widely considered to be the clear #2 team in the East by the media and casual fans..perennially overrated, and the media/fans always find a scapegoat that isn't Derrick Rose..

[spursistan]

It's amazing, 2 years later and both teams are still all hype and no results, tbh:lol..

The Clippers' hype has died down, but the Bulls were still widely considered to be the clear #2 team in the East by the media and casual fans..perennially overrated, and the media/fans always find a scapegoat that isn't Derrick Rose..

This might be Zach Lowe worst prediction ever :lol : 4. Chicago Gets the No. 1 Seed in the East

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/35-crazy-predictions-for-the-2015-16-nba-season/


amazing that even presumably smart analysts are still falling for it..

[Robz4000]

:lol this thread

[Joseph Kony]

am I the only person who thinks Jimmy Butler is incredibly overrated?