HIV = AIDS, Fact or Fraud?

[mouse]

Too many people are making too much money out of it, and money is much stronger than truth. One of the most powerful video documentaries of our time boldly reveals the modern medical-industrial complex’s dire descent into utter corruption.

This feature-length expose explains exactly how the 300-Billion-dollar AID$ fraud began, why HIV can NOT be the cause of AIDS, what the real causes could be, and who manipulates the public's good intentions while poisoning hundreds of thousands with toxic drugs that cause the very disease they are supposed to prevent.

N-Eh-BHkmeY

[TDMVPDPOY]

its a fraud...magic is still alive after 20years announcing he got the HIV

while his former boss didnt get shit and already bite the dusts

healthcare industry or pharmaceautical industry is the biggest ponzi scheme scam

[boutons_deux]

HIV causes AIDS deniers been around a long time

Deadly Disbelief


The size of their ranks in 2013 is difficult to estimate, given the Internet’s natural ability to overestimate based on enthusiasm (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/09/intactivists_online_a_fringe_group_turned_the_inte rnet_against_circumcision.html), but it surely numbers in the thousands.

Their varied paths to denialism make these people unique among non-reality-based groups. Take the anti-vaccination activists: At their core is a clutch of parents (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/24/mandatory_vaccinations_unvaccinated_public_school_ students_face_suspension.html) worried about their kids (http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/10/flu_season_is_upon_us_get_your_kids_vaccinated.htm l). Any parent knows that parenthood can be a rationality-free zone (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/02/pertussis_epidemic_how_vermont_s_anti_vaxxer_activ ists_stopped_a_vaccine.html). Or the anti-global warming agnostics (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/26/climate_change_denial_james_delingpole_tells_it_li ke_it_isn_t.html): They seem more like a front group for Big Oil or at least Chamber of Commerce boosterism than a group (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2013/03/climate_change_flow_chart_how_to_win_any_global_wa rming_argument.html) of wide-eyed (non)believers willing to take a life-and-death stand on principle. Even the anti-evolution zealots (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/02/ken_ham_s_books_and_museums_creationist_empire_sta rts_to_crumble_as_we_celebrate.html) are just expressing their deliberately blind faith in a deity, and the blinder, the better.

In contrast, the HIV deniers are an oddball collection of prissy scientists, right-wing moralizers, standard big-government paranoids, and those still very spooked by the idea that men have sex with men. There are no TV stars (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/07/15/the_view_daytime_talk_show_hires_antivaxxer_jenny_ mccarthy.html) in their midst, no money, much less Big Money (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/the-kochs-and-the-action-on-global-warming.html); they have neither conventions nor house organs—even Fox News sits at a safe remove. Indeed, they have no real political agenda except perhaps a limp suspicion that science is corrupt and scientists are even more corrupt and that all those taxpayer billions could be better spent on a real disease.

However, despite the amorphous organizational structure, deniers persist and persist. They are true-blooded, bright-eyed nonbelievers. The last time their noise made it into the mainstream media was in a 2006 Harper’s long-form fantasy (http://harpers.org/archive/2006/03/out-of-control/) by Celia Farber decrying all manner of conspiracy and scientific turpitude and Pharma-cronyism.

But last year, Pastor Bryan Fischer, a fervent AIDS denialist with the American Family Association, rattled the cage in a screed that started out with his musings about Magic Johnson surviving 20 years with HIV. Fischer claimed there was no way that HIV, a simple, humble virus, could cause AIDS.

The real reason for the disease (http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147515585), he explained, is the ongoing use of party drugs by homosexuals having frequent anonymous sex:

“The only way this is possible is through taking stimulants that heighten sexual pleasure and make multiple sexual experiences possible.”

(sounds like jealous-of-homos Fischer benefit from that!)

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/tommy_morrison_aids_death_hiv_denialism_victims_in _south_africa_and_the.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/tommy_morrison_aids_death_hiv_denialism_victims_in _south_africa_and_the.html)

Well, that settles it, if Bryan Fischer or any other assholes from the "Christian" hate groups like AFA, is on the case, we absolutely know now that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

[boobie4three]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/oh-snap-u-got-da-aids_zps72329a0f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/oh-snap-u-got-da-aids_zps72329a0f.jpg.html)

[Chief Brody]

It would be nice if homosexuals apologized for their deviant behavior in spreading this disease in America. Still not a shred of remorse, but they love playing the victim.

[Bill_Brasky]

why should they have to apologize for their ancestors?

[Chief Brody]

why should they have to apologize for their ancestors?
Can't blame chimps for naturally carrying SIV, tbh...nothing under their power.

You can definitely blame fags for the spread of HIV/AIDS in the United States--and this isn't some bible-beating religious tangent. In the 3 U.S. cities AIDS was first identified, homosexuals were the common denominator. From there, we know some gays were IV drug users (thus the spread in shooting galleries), a lot of them donated blood (hemophiliacs now infected), and some of them were bisexual.

A lot of deaths could've been avoided had they not been so insistent on public gaymongering in bath houses, nightclubs, etc.

[boutons_deux]

one of the many really shitty legacies of St Ronnie

Reagan's AIDS Legacy / Silence equals death

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Reagan-s-AIDS-Legacy-Silence-equals-death-2751030.php

[Chief Brody]

^
Can't blame him in hindsight. Here we have this new disease that's killing off gays and heroin addicts by the thousands. Why intervene, tbh? Only later was it widely known that normal people were getting it too.

[mouse]

You can definitely blame fags for the spread of HIV/AIDS .
A lot of deaths could've been avoided had they not been so insistent on public gaymongering in bath houses,.

So if AIDS never came about you wouldn't have a problem with the gaymongering in bath houses?

[boutons_deux]

^
Can't blame him in hindsight. Here we have this new disease that's killing off gays and heroin addicts by the thousands. Why intervene, tbh? Only later was it widely known that normal people were getting it too.

dead gays and addicts were St Ronnie's "Mourning in America".

So if you and St Ronnie want gays and addicts dead, it's alright to ignore their public health epidemic?

[Chief Brody]

dead gays and addicts were St Ronnie's "Mourning in America".

So if you and St Ronnie want gays and addicts dead, it's alright to ignore their public health epidemic?
Was it right for gays to ignore a health epidemic and fuck each other in bath houses--further spreading the disease?

[Chief Brody]

So if AIDS never came about you wouldn't have a problem with the gaymongering in bath houses?
but it did. They were already spreading Hepatitis at an alarming rate, too.

[Rogue]

virus just work differently on different bodies. someone may live with the virus till they die of some other disease at a very old age without ever developing into an AIDS patient, sometimes those anti-virus medicines kill HIV carriers faster than the virus themselves do tbh. So yes, it is a real big fraud.

[boutons_deux]

Was it right for gays to ignore a health epidemic and fuck each other in bath houses--further spreading the disease?

at the very beginning, due to delayed arrival of AIDS symptoms after HIV infection, I doubt 1000s of them knew they were infected and infectious.

There's no excuse for St Ronnie maliciously not getting CDC or whoever to raise the alarm ASAP. St Ronnie was nothing but an amiable, professional-voiced 1%-er asshole and FBI snitch.

[boobie4three]

at the very beginning, due to delayed arrival of AIDS symptoms after HIV infection, I doubt 1000s of them knew they were infected and infectious.

There's no excuse for St Ronnie maliciously not getting CDC or whoever to raise the alarm ASAP. St Ronnie was nothing but an amiable, professional-voiced 1%-er asshole and FBI snitch.

Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents in the history of these here United States tbh. But you're right, when the AIDS epidemic broke out, he should have personally went to the streets of SF and thrown buckets of cold water on these buttfuckers while they were in the act.

[boutons_deux]

"Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents in the history of these here United State"

for the 1%, but for the 99%, You Lie, suckered by St Ronnie's Hollywood-smooth delivery

[Chief Brody]

at the very beginning, due to delayed arrival of AIDS symptoms after HIV infection, I doubt 1000s of them knew they were infected and infectious.

There's no excuse for St Ronnie maliciously not getting CDC or whoever to raise the alarm ASAP. St Ronnie was nothing but an amiable, professional-voiced 1%-er asshole and FBI snitch.

Don't even go there with that pseudo gay rights crap. The public health officials and the CDC let leaders of the gay community know pretty early on that they believed this to be sexually-transmitted. As soon as late 1982 or 1983 iirc. They knew it was spread sexually before they even knew what the virus was. The gays were too worried about losing their civil right to fuck multiple anonymous partners a night in oublic, rather than the growing health concern. They eventually closed the bath houses, but that spoke more to their clientele dying off and business dropping, then it did a health concern.

Sounds like you have some personal beef with RR over this. You stitch a couple names to the quilt yourself, tbh?

[Chief Brody]

You see, boutons? No matter how many links you desperately try to scrounge up, nothing changes the fact that those dudes' affinity for having semen deposited in their assholes helped cut short their lives.

[boutons_deux]

so you want to impose your morals, ethics on other people? you're happy if they die because you don't like their perfectly legal choices?

fucking right wingers, so fucking righteous, so vindictive, so punitive, sticking their noses up other people's business, want to REGULATE absolutely LEGAL behavior out of existence.

[Chief Brody]

so you want to impose your morals, ethics on other people? you're happy if they die because you don't like their perfectly legal choices?

fucking right wingers, so fucking righteous, so vindictive, so punitive, sticking their noses up other people's business, want to REGULATE absolutely LEGAL behavior out of existence.
You're getting sidetracked. An admission that rampant and promiscuous anal sex contributed to the spread of HIV/AIDS and the demise of it's main populace is not leftist or rightest or centrist. It just is.

...and what is this thread ultimately about anyways? Big Pharma, and their money-making scams off a now-tamed virus. Well who the fuck do you think opened the door for this shit back when they were begging Reagan and the gubbamint to fast track hundreds of powerful anti-retroviral cocktails--without the proper clinical trial periods?

ACT UP ring a bell?

[leemajors]

You're getting sidetracked. An admission that rampant and promiscuous anal sex contributed to the spread of HIV/AIDS and the demise of it's main populace is not leftist or rightest or centrist. It just is.

...and what is this thread ultimately about anyways? Big Pharma, and their money-making scams off a now-tamed virus. Well who the fuck do you think opened the door for this shit back when they were begging Reagan and the gubbamint to fast track hundreds of powerful anti-retroviral cocktails--without the proper clinical trial periods?

ACT UP ring a bell?

Just curious, are you familiar with Dr. Peter Duesberg's conclusions on HIV?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Just curious, are you familiar with Dr. Peter Duesberg's conclusions on HIV?
Vaguely, but I'll do some reading up on him tonight since I'm on-call. Dr. Bill Darrow is a professor down here at FIU (really cool dude) in Miami--and it was he who did the STD/cluster study for the CDC back in the day (Patient Zero, etc). There's also Dr. Margaret Fischl from UM who was also one of the first to treat this disease. A lot of great front-line resources down here.

[Fabbs]

This feature-length expose

Another video available?
"This video has been removed by the user."

[leemajors]

Vaguely, but I'll do some reading up on him tonight since I'm on-call. Dr. Bill Darrow is a professor down here at FIU (really cool dude) in Miami--and it was he who did the STD/cluster study for the CDC back in the day (Patient Zero, etc). There's also Dr. Margaret Fischl from UM who was also one of the first to treat this disease. A lot of great front-line resources down here.

He has some very controversial opinions about HIV to say the least - that it is an incredibly weak virus that can only take root in people with severely compromised immune systems. People that party really, really hard and abuse things like poppers.

[DeadlyDynasty]

He has some very controversial opinions about HIV to say the least - that it is an incredibly weak virus that can only take root in people with severely compromised immune systems. People that party really, really hard and abuse things like poppers.
As soon as I saw his picture I was like "Ohhhhhhhhh, that guy.":lol

Yeah, some of what he says seems plausible, but I thought the amyl nitrite theory was rendered bunk in the early-80s. As for his theories about the virus (and retroviruses in general), you could say that about any infectious organism--of course immunocompromised people are at greater risk. The problem is we still know relatively little about retroviruses, especially HIV. SIV1 for instance, is naturally found in chimpanzees but it doesn't harm them. HIV, however, isn't naturally present in humans and how it came about is still a mystery.

:lolThis brings us to OPV/HIV--the only CT I truly believe in...and it's criminal that it's considered a conspiracy theory. I won't bore you with that, leemajors (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1150), but suffice to say that it's an incredibly engrossing topic that--if interested--it'll preoccupy you for weeks. That's where HIV was born, imo...not this bushmeat bullshit where "we think this guy in 1930 got it" or "some dude butchered a chimp and ate it, causing a mutation and creating HIV." To me, Bushmeat Theory is about as plausible as Adam and Eve.

Check it out sometime.

[pgardn]

In contrast, the HIV deniers are an oddball collection of prissy scientists, right-wing moralizers, standard big-government paranoids, and those still very spooked by the idea that men have sex with men. There are no TV stars in their midst, no money, much less Big Money; they have neither conventions nor house organs—even Fox News sits at a safe remove. Indeed, they have no real political agenda except perhaps a limp suspicion that science is corrupt and scientists are even more corrupt and that all those taxpayer billions could be better spent on a real disease.


Standard big anything paranoids.

Largest portion of the wacks on this board. If it's big, it must be bad. Big govt, big oil, big Pharma, big Jews, big media...
Then you got the I'm a contrarian group, which is fine, if you actually understand the convention you attack in the first place.

Thanks Boutons.

[leemajors]

As soon as I saw his picture I was like "Ohhhhhhhhh, that guy.":lol

Yeah, some of what he says seems plausible, but I thought the amyl nitrite theory was rendered bunk in the early-80s. As for his theories about the virus (and retroviruses in general), you could say that about any infectious organism--of course immunocompromised people are at greater risk. The problem is we still know relatively little about retroviruses, especially HIV. SIV1 for instance, is naturally found in chimpanzees but it doesn't harm them. HIV, however, isn't naturally present in humans and how it came about is still a mystery.

:lolThis brings us to OPV/HIV--the only CT I truly believe in...and it's criminal that it's considered a conspiracy theory. I won't bore you with that, leemajors (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1150), but suffice to say that it's an incredibly engrossing topic that--if interested--it'll preoccupy you for weeks. That's where HIV was born, imo...not this bushmeat bullshit where "we think this guy in 1930 got it" or "some dude butchered a chimp and ate it, causing a mutation and creating HIV." To me, Bushmeat Theory is about as plausible as Adam and Eve.

Check it out sometime.

I just heard him on SA210's main source for health information, the Joe Rogan Experience:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUINR38eEDY

It was an interesting interview to say the least, it's hard to knock his pedigree as a researcher. I think it is silly he has been totally ostracized by his colleagues though.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yeah, it's petty but the scientific communty--particularly in regards to medicine--gets incredibly defensive and cliquish when faced with opposing viewpoints that come from real scientists and/or researchers (not so much religious wingnuts).

[pgardn]

Scientists who are gadflys are always popular with a community hoping for mass conspiracies.


There are much more interesting differences between scientist who understand that contracting HIV can lead to AIDS. There are many disagreements within this community that leads to very good science. They self critique in a very useful way. Sometimes it gets very nasty.

At 18 to 20 minutes you can stop the video.

At 22 minutes he basically gives information that does NOT follow ALL the research. He picks and chooses the papers that bolsters his claim without mentioning follow ups that don't.

[leemajors]

Scientists who are gadflys are always popular with a community hoping for mass conspiracies.


There are much more interesting differences between scientist who understand that contracting HIV can lead to AIDS. There are many disagreements within this community that leads to very good science. They self critique in a very useful way. Sometimes it gets very nasty.

At 18 to 20 minutes you can stop the video.

At 22 minutes he basically gives information that does NOT follow ALL the research. He picks and chooses the papers that bolsters his claim without mentioning follow ups that don't.

You'd know far better than I regarding how well his opinion is propped up for sure. It was something interesting to think about. I can't remember if they got him high or not.

[ElNono]

That's where HIV was born, imo...not this bushmeat bullshit where "we think this guy in 1930 got it" or "some dude butchered a chimp and ate it, causing a mutation and creating HIV." To me, Bushmeat Theory is about as plausible as Adam and Eve.

Check it out sometime.

Related, and I thought it was interesting:

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_24217350/tick-hitches-ride-u-s-from-uganda-uw

[leemajors]

Related, and I thought it was interesting:

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_24217350/tick-hitches-ride-u-s-from-uganda-uw

that is fucking revolting. ingrown nose hairs are bad enough but I think I would flip out.

[pgardn]

that is fucking revolting. ingrown nose hairs are bad enough but I think I would flip out.

For some reason I thought the article was hilarious...

Given that this tick avoided detection during an international flight back to Wisconsin

Like the tick was planning a terrorist mission. The body scans revealed nothing...shit.

The scientist wanted to claw his face off, but curiosity prevented him from doing so.

Good stuff there.