Suns may let Johnson join Hawks

[ducks]

Deal for JJ no sure bet

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 26, 2005 12:00 AM

The Suns brimmed in June with as much confidence about re-signing Joe Johnson as they would about defending the Pacific Division title.

This week, a pool of rising, nervous energy is swallowing up America West Arena. Several Suns organization staffers and others close to Johnson say they believe Managing Partner Robert Sarver will not match Atlanta's five-year, $70 million offer sheet, which Johnson cannot sign until next week after the free-agency signing moratorium was extended again Monday.

Once he signs an offer sheet, Phoenix would have a week to decide between matching the deal and saying goodbye to Johnson, a restricted free agent. Others still believe Sarver will match, but it is clear to all that he is unsure.
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The Suns made re-signing Johnson a top priority this summer. They said they intended to maintain the team's core and would do everything "within reason" to do so. But this month's events surprised them.

The worst things that happened to hopes of retaining Johnson less expensively (the Suns offered $60 million for six years this month) were Seattle's and Milwaukee's re-signings of free agents Ray Allen and Michael Redd, respectively. Cleveland and Atlanta, teams with cap space, then switched their attention to Larry Hughes and Johnson.

Cleveland struck first with Hughes, a lower risk because he was an unrestricted free agent. His five-year, $70 million signing set the maximum-level bar for Johnson, whom Atlanta wants as a point guard.

The new collective bargaining agreement may have helped entice the Hawks into the fray, too. It cut the time allotted for a team to respond to an offer sheet from 15 days to seven. That would have left Atlanta's financial commitment tied up for less time if not for delays in finalizing the CBA.

Atlanta would not have become involved if it did not feel it had a logical shot, much like Phoenix's chase of Quentin Richardson last summer. Just as the Suns front-loaded Richardson's deal, Atlanta reportedly agreed to pay Johnson at least $20 million in the first year.

After Richardson (traded last month for Kurt Thomas) signed for $43.5 million last summer, Sarver declined to give Johnson the six-year, $50 million contract he desired, despite the staff's wishes. The combination of the two decisions still upsets Johnson, a teammate said.

Sarver proved prophetic in his first words to Johnson after they wound up $5 million apart last fall. He said: "Go out and have a good year and you're going to make a ton of money."

Sarver and Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo declined comment Monday. Johnson's agents could not be reached.

One talked-about scenario has the Suns telling Johnson to take their offer, banking on loyalty, or he will wind up with Atlanta because the Hawks' offer is too much for Phoenix's budget. With Johnson signed to a maximum deal, Phoenix would be close to the luxury tax threshold with just six players in 2006-07, when Amaré Stoudemire's extension would begin.

After a hometown summer league game in Little Rock last week, Johnson told KATV-TV that he would sign Atlanta's offer sheet. Asked whether the Suns were doing anything extra to keep him, Johnson told KATV: "Not really. Atlanta, they came really strong. So you know, we're going to just sit back, wait and we're gonna see what's going to happen.

"Basically, it's pretty much done. To be honest, I'm pretty much . . . I'm gonna sign with Atlanta probably sometime (next week) and we're gonna wait and see if Phoenix is going to match."

If Phoenix is certain it will not match, it could seek a sign-and-trade deal to get some compensation. But any deal for a player would require Phoenix to take on almost as much salary, although it could be for a shorter time.

Those close to Johnson felt he wanted to stay with Phoenix, which still has his image on the Web page for season ticket sales. He said he would love to re-sign when he last left AWA but added that it was a business and it would be an "interesting" summer.

Phoenix's other priority was Stoudemire's extension. Johnson's possible departure won't sit well with the franchise big man, but nobody else can give him the money the Suns can (almost $90 million for six years). It may not even please Steve Nash, who already saw a team that he felt was close to a title get broken up in Dallas.

Johnson is slated to play Friday in Nash's charity game in Toronto. Will it be his last game with Nash, Stoudemire and Shawn Marion?

[1Parker1]

If he wants a chance at an NBA Championship, he'll sign for a little less with the Suns. If he wants even more money than he has now and will ever need, and doesn't really want an NBA Champsionship ring, he'll sign with the Hawks.

Simple as that. :spin

[Twisted_Dawg]

Deal for JJ no sure bet



After Richardson (traded last month for Kurt Thomas) signed for $43.5 million last summer, Sarver declined to give Johnson the six-year, $50 million contract he desired, despite the staff's wishes. The combination of the two decisions still upsets Johnson, a teammate said.

Sarver proved prophetic in his first words to Johnson after they wound up $5 million apart last fall. He said: "Go out and have a good year and you're going to make a ton of money."

Sarver and Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo declined comment Monday. Johnson's agents could not be reached.

One talked-about scenario has the Suns telling Johnson to take their offer, banking on loyalty, or he will wind up with Atlanta because the Hawks' offer is too much for Phoenix's budget. With Johnson signed to a maximum deal, Phoenix would be close to the luxury tax threshold with just six players in 2006-07, when Amaré Stoudemire's extension would begin.

Phoenix's other priority was Stoudemire's extension. Johnson's possible departure won't sit well with the franchise big man, but nobody else can give him the money the Suns can (almost $90 million for six years). It may not even please Steve Nash, who already saw a team that he felt was close to a title get broken up in Dallas.

Johnson is slated to play Friday in Nash's charity game in Toronto. Will it be his last game with Nash, Stoudemire and Shawn Marion?

Well...Well...Well.....Isn't this the same idiot that mocked Duncan and Manu for not playing in Phoenix during the season because they were injured? Now he is getting a taste of reality. They were $5 million apart last fall and I bet that figure was below $50 million. He could have locked him up last fall and now faces the reality of losing him.....or matching and being in cap hell. I bet the GM is sick to his stomach and sick of Sarver also. This guy has taken the lead from Mark Cuban as class clown of the owners.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Is JJ the next SJax? Atlanta's got enough young talent that they should improve a lot over the next two years or so and get in the playoffs, but barring a miracle the Hawks ain't winning anything big for a while, particularly if they tie up 70 mil for JJ.

What I'm wondering, and I'm sure plenty have said this during the JJ saga, is is this guy really worth that kind of contract? He had a hell of a year with the Suns, but this certainly wouldn't be the first time a guy had himself a career year while his contract expired. I think both JJ and the Hawks will wind up regretting this one.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, at least Sarver can show up to this showdown in a chicken suit.

[ambchang]

Atlanta is just unbelievable, they have a bunch of wingman, but no center, and no point guard. Guess what that comes to. No matter how many scorers you have on your team, you need a point guard to distribute the ball (see Phoenix vs. Houston). And yet they go out and sign Joe Johnson for $70 mil? What were they thinking?
Not that I mind though, because that will put Phoenix in a very difficult situation.
But then again, nobody hired me to be a GM ......

[ducks]

they can trade for tinsley now

[ducks]

you know they were only 5 million apart what a pity last year
I feel for sun fans

[picnroll]

If they're not intending to sign Johnson Suns ought to try for a S&T for Smith or Childress but Atlanta likely wouldn't go for it since they're payng top dollar for Johnson already. Either way somewhere down the road Atlanta's going to have to give up a swing player. They can't tie up all their money in 2s and 3s without a quality 4/5.

[wildbill2u]

If they're not intending to sign Johnson Suns ought to try for a S&T for Smith or Childress but Atlanta likely wouldn't go for it since they're payng top dollar for Johnson already. Either way somewhere down the road Atlanta's going to have to give up a swing player. They can't tie up all their money in 2s and 3s without a quality 4/5.

JJs signing with the Hawks could really open things for us. They have several good your swing men and no center (Collier? Please!). The Spurs have been patient and haven't showed their hand yet, but I'm betting they've focused on Atlanta for a possible trade for Rasho.

[FromWayDowntown]

you know they were only 5 million apart what a pity last year
I feel for sun fans

I read that and thought back on Holt's initial unwillingness to budge on that deal with Parker last summer. Given the new CBA and the existing market, those who convinced Holt to accede to Parker's demand probably saved the Spurs from facing a similar decision (though without the looming specter of extending a guy in the Stoudemire range).

I remain convinced that the Spurs were extremely fortunate last off-season, and that their good fortune will pay off for a long, long time to come.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

You know, Joe Johnson is a good player, but is he worth 70 million?

Yeah, Sarver screwed up by not locking him up sooner---like the Spurs did w/Parker and Manu. But he also shouldn't feel compelled to get into a bidding war over a DECENT player, but not a FRANCHISE player. Stoudamire and Nash are the key guys. Johnson's a valuable asset to the team, but he's not--I repeat NOT---going to be the guy who determines whether the Suns win it all or not.

[2centsworth]

You know, Joe Johnson is a good player, but is he worth 70 million?

Yeah, Sarver screwed up by not locking him up sooner---like the Spurs did w/Parker and Manu. But he also shouldn't feel compelled to get into a bidding war over a DECENT player, but not a FRANCHISE player. Stoudamire and Nash are the key guys. Johnson's a valuable asset to the team, but he's not--I repeat NOT---going to be the guy who determines whether the Suns win it all or not.

He is no where close to being worth 70mm. It sucks for phoenix but they should let him go and sign a vet for the short term and develop someone else for the longer term. Suns are gonna need that money to resign Amare.

[picnroll]

LA is clearing cap for 2007 for a shot at Amare. If the Suns don't have a team to show Amare going forward in 2007 they may be in trouble keeping him from demanding a S&T to LA. Right now, without Johnosn, in 2007 they'll be showing him Matrix, a 33 year old Nash, and a 35 year old Kurt Thomas.

[Marcus Bryant]

I read that and thought back on Holt's initial unwillingness to budge on that deal with Parker last summer. Given the new CBA and the existing market, those who convinced Holt to accede to Parker's demand probably saved the Spurs from facing a similar decision (though without the looming specter of extending a guy in the Stoudemire range).

I remain convinced that the Spurs were extremely fortunate last off-season, and that their good fortune will pay off for a long, long time to come.


Absolutely. They retained both Parker and Ginobili without signing either to a max contract. Thank God for restricted free agency and contract extensions.

[Ocotillo]

On the other side, Johnson will have some cash in his pocket but will slip off the face of the earth playing in basketball pergatory.

[2centsworth]

LA is clearing cap for 2007 for a shot at Amare. If the Suns don't have a team to show Amare going forward in 2007 they may be in trouble keeping him from demanding a S&T to LA. Right now, without Johnosn, in 2007 they'll be showing him Matrix, a 33 year old Nash, and a 35 year old Kurt Thomas.

Cap flexiblity is more important that retaining any of the players they have on their current roster. JJ is very good but over paying him can cripple that team. the other players you metioned are old no matter what you do, so Cap room is needed.

Throw the 70mil at a better more impactful player like Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade etc..

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't imagine that Phoenix is too worried, right now, about losing Amare in the summer of '07. They have 2 summers to get his deal extended and they can offer him more than anyone else. While I'd generally agree that Joe Johnson made a big difference for the Suns last season, he's not even their 2nd or 3rd most important player (arguably, Marion is their most important guy, since the Spurs proved that if you can shut down Marion, the Suns become much, much easier to beat). If Amare is going to feel like the organization isn't serious about winning because Sarver won't shell out ridiculous sums to guys who are, essentially, role players, then he just doesn't really get it. There are better players than Johnson in the league and for the price that Phoenix would have to pay for JJ, they can at least make runs at some of those guys.

Johnson is right to cash in, but the Suns may save their future by refusing to match a ridiculous offer.

[timvp]

The Suns are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Nice.

:smokin

[CaptainLate]

If he wants a chance at an NBA Championship, he'll sign for a little less with the Suns. If he wants even more money than he has now and will ever need, and doesn't really want an NBA Champsionship ring, he'll sign with the Hawks.

Simple as that. :spin

Not really. He's young. Grab the $$ now and start thinking about a ring down the road when you're in your late 20's/early 30's. Can you say "Jerome Kersey"; "Danny Ferry"; "Steve Smith"; "Kevin Willis"; "Big Dog", et al.?

[ducks]

I think out of ray allen and the star fa's he is the guy that I would throw the most out
he can do it all

[clubalien]

if they let JJ go they coudl always pick up finely

[picnroll]

When you figure Manu is getting $52 million there's no way Johnson is worth $70. That said the Suns do have to look down the road and know they have something to show Amare just like the Spurs had to sell Duncan a future. Duncan was sold on DRob, a couple of years window for the Spurs to get something (thank God for Parker and Manu) and a player op if they didn't. Unlikley it will be any different with Amare. As we see with Manu good players can make up a few million in contract money by being on championship caliber teams and raking in the endorsements so I don't think the extra money the SUns can throw at him will make a difference if he thinks the team won't be a contender.

I disagree on Matrixs being more important. He can not create for himself or others like Johnson can and with the new defensive rules that's more important than ever.

Like timvp said Suns are between a rock and a hard place. In many ways I'd rather see Johnson sign with the Suns if it meant Amare didn't end up with those damn Lakers.

[Dex]

Suckers.

Karma is a bitch, eh Sarver? :king

[ducks]

suns should have traded Matrixs and kepted q
then I think they would match

[picnroll]

Suns should never have signed Q. Should have signed Johnson and a decent big.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Hawks are now my second favorite team.

[clubalien]

this is good for us, but sons still have their two best players

but if you look at nets
Kidd -nash
sar-amrae
but nets have vince carter, I am going to predict nets have a better record then suns

[ducks]

spurs got lucky with manu he would have gotten a max offer from suns had they not gotten his deal done

[Trainwreck2100]

The Suns may have their two top stars but JJ opened up the floor by making those threes.

[CaptainLate]

I read that and thought back on Holt's initial unwillingness to budge on that deal with Parker last summer. Given the new CBA and the existing market, those who convinced Holt to accede to Parker's demand probably saved the Spurs from facing a similar decision (though without the looming specter of extending a guy in the Stoudemire range).

I remain convinced that the Spurs were extremely fortunate last off-season, and that their good fortune will pay off for a long, long time to come.

Manu took less money; Parker took less; Bowen renegotiated. Hell, where can you find multi-millionaire players willing to do that? ESPN The Mag is right -- what's there NOT to like about this team.

[SenorSpur]

Like timvp said Suns are between a rock and a hard place. In many ways I'd rather see Johnson sign with the Suns if it meant Amare didn't end up with those damn Lakers.

Reasons Amare aint going nowhere.

Let's not forget, on last summer Amare traveled to Dallas in order to lure Nash to sign with the Suns. He was able to successfully convince Nash the Suns would be a perennial championship contenders, if he signed on.

If Amare bolted to the Fakers, then he'd be a traitor (at least in Nash's eyes). I say no way he's going anywhere. Besides, where else will he find a PG that is willing to distribute the ball to him every trip down court?

Any another thing, why would he want to play alongside that Kobe Bryant's selfish ass?

Still another thing - Money. The Suns will be able to pay him more than anyone.

That brings us back to JJ. Knowing Amare is a higher priority, the funky chicken (Suns owner Robert Sarver) may "bite the bullet" and let JJ walk. Thus saving hiim precious cap space and perhaps signing a suitable ( or less than suitable ) replacment - like Finley.

Bottom line, JJ's eminent departure will have nothing to do with Amare staying on. I do agree if they match JJ's offer, then Marion could be gone.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manu took less money; Parker took less; Bowen renegotiated. Hell, where can you find multi-millionaire players willing to do that? ESPN The Mag is right -- what's there NOT to like about this team.

Taking care of its business was an important part of what the Spurs did last summer. But I think the point I was trying to make was this: Sarver and Johnson were $5 million apart on an extension last summer. Holt and Parker were $2 million apart. Sarver wouldn't budge and now he's faced with matching a max-type deal for a player who isn't the most important guy on his roster. Holt finally gave in to Parker and the Spurs got him locked up without having to deal with free agency. Pony up to a reasonable deal and you can save yourself the headache of deciding between letting a key player go and mortgaging the future of your franchise.

Is there really any doubt, in this free agent market, that Tony Parker would have gotten an offer from someone that was at least simlar to the deals that have been offered to Hughes and Johnson?

Holt paid a price that he wasn't completely comfortable with, but it saved the Spurs money and ensured that the franchise will compete for titles for the foreseeable future without mortgaging its future to do so.

[TheTruth]

If Amare bolted to the Fakers, then he'd be a traitor (at least in Nash's eyes). I say no way he's going anywhere. Besides, where else will he find a PG that is willing to distribute the ball to him every trip down court?
He wouldn't be the NBA's first traitor.

[SirChaz]

Nash and Marion are great now but Johnson and Stoudemire are the future of the Suns IMO.

The Suns said they would match and I still think they will until they prove otherwise. If it was Jerry Colangelo making the final decision it wouldn't even be a question. Nobody really seems sure what Sarver will do. If they do match they will have some tough decisions next summer but it doesn't kill them for this coming season.

[exstatic]

timvp is right. If they match, they're financially strangled when they have to match for Amare. If they don't, they have to replace 403 3 pointers, as follows.

Joe Johnson 177-370 3GM @ .478
QRich 226-631 3GM @ .368

That's a shitload of 3 pointers, and Amare's breathing room in the paint. :smokin