Kawhi Leonard and the Future of the Spurs

[SpursDynasty21]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/11/5/5061614/Kawhi-leonard-jordan-brand-endorsement-small-market-spurs This article got me thinking. The Spurs have always been pretty quiet in free agency and the trade markets, but will that be enough to keep Leonard around? Kawhi Leonard appears to be the future of the team, and the Spurs have to keep him happy. Letting him get some recognition can be a good thing. If and when the Spurs sign Leonard long-term, will they have to be more aggressive in trying to attract and sign/trade for star caliber players? I just don't want Leonard to leave for a big market team.

[RD2191]

I wouldn't be mad if he did, tbh. He deserves better than to be stuck on a team who is rebuilding.

[SpursRock20]

He ain't going anywhere, and yes they will need to tank to get some good draft picks because FA is not going to help out much for our Spurs. Enjoy the next couple of years while they last, I have a feeling that we will be bad for quite awhile once Timmy calls it quits.

[Skoobz]

I really hope we can keep a hold of Leonard and build a competitive team around him with the right type of players. My biggest concern though is that I pray that we don't lose our culture..... Cause that's the biggest thing that differentiates us from the rest of the league. That's what makes SAS special.

God save the Spurs.

[Richie]

I think we'll need to trade away Parker and have Kawhi carry us in to the lottery for a few years.

Parker/Kawhi/Tiago is a 8th seed/late lottery team with no hope of a championship. Trade Parker for picks and ride Kawhi to a couple Top 5 lottery picks and cross our fingers.

However, if we could lure Aldridge here in 2015, I like a Parker/Kawhi/Aldridge 3, maybe Duncan comes back for a year at 20 min/game if his body is holding up

[Chinook]

Parker, Green, Leonard, Diaw and Splitter are a good enough unit to get a mid seed. Add in cap space for a near-max player and the potential addition of depth from Europe, and the Spurs can be a pretty good team for another four or five years.

[BillMc]

Parker, Green, Leonard, Diaw and Splitter are a good enough unit to get a mid seed. Add in cap space for a near-max player and the potential addition of depth from Europe, and the Spurs can be a pretty good team for another four or five years.

I agree with this. I think we'll go to a mid seed level post Duncan, as long at that core and Pop stay. We won't be a likely champion, but the Spurs won't embarrass themselves either. We still may push that 50 win season streak another 5 years.

[CGD]

Nah spurs are gonna have to suck at some point to get better. Last thing they want is to be drafting between 14 and 20 regularly, while simultaneously fighting it out for the 6-10th seed in the west. The 2000s Utah jazz are an example of what not to do, despite how admirably they may have fought in some of those season, but they were never a serious contender in that time. NEVER.

It makes me appreciate how "special" the injury-laden 1996 season was. Draft TD in 1997 while getting back a healthy DRob?!?

[playblair]

future rotation = ......................

cojo/kabongo
hanga
kawhi/livo charles
bertans/ayers
richards/baynes

[Richie]

Parker, Green, Leonard, Diaw and Splitter are a good enough unit to get a mid seed. Add in cap space for a near-max player and the potential addition of depth from Europe, and the Spurs can be a pretty good team for another four or five years.

Throw in LaMarcus Aldridge in to that team with Kawhi becoming a legit All-Star with 1st All Defence and they could be a contender. Kawhi is the difference maker between being a 2nd round exit and a contender with his ability to guard the likes of Durant and Lebron

[Chinook]

The Spurs will suck once Parker leaves. But not really before. They have little problem being a good regular-season team without him. It's their playoff ceiling that will be lowered dramatically.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I suspect that the Spurs will give a big push for Kevin Love when his Kahnnnn-enabled early jail-break card has a chance to be used at the end of 2015 (right when Manu's, Parker's, Duncan's contracts expire).

They might even coax Duncan to play a couple more years - maybe as a reserve and conserve his energy furthermore - as he grooms Love to improve his game further.

A Parker-Leonard-Love-Splitter core with suitable role players will threaten as a contender.

[tesseractive]

I think we can rebuild Pacers-style: end up in the middle of the draft without bottoming out, draft some killer value picks and develop the players, field a revitalized team. Remember what the Spurs did with their one Top 20 pick of the 21st Century.

[exstatic]

Duncan may not even come back next year if we win, pull a DRob and go out on top. This could be the last dance, so enjoy it. His priorities seem to have changed with the collapse of his marriage. I watched an interview in training camp, and he was asked if he would sign another deal. He said no, that he wanted to spend time with his kids, and that he promised them he wouldn't play longer than his contract.

[exstatic]

I think we can rebuild Pacers-style: end up in the middle of the draft without bottoming out, draft some killer value picks and develop the players, field a revitalized team. Remember what the Spurs did with their one Top 20 pick of the 21st Century.

Actually, James Anderson, being pick #20 in 2010, was also a top 20 pick in the 21st century for us.

[tesseractive]

Actually, James Anderson, being pick #20 in 2010, was also a top 20 pick in the 21st century for us.

Oops. I thought I remembered him being 22 or 23. I do wonder how good he could have been without the career-altering injury, though.

[skulls138]

The Spurs front office is the best and get more bang for the buck than anybody. True Duncan can make alot of people look good at their job but look at Parker Ginobili and Kawhi, awesome moves. So I think Kawhi is in good hands and I think he realizes that.

My question is will he become the player we want? He has alot of potential, but can he be number one? I'd like to see some more offensive assertiveness this year. Kawhi is an all around player and has alot of responsibility that gets unnoticed, but a star scores, unless your Rodman.

[Captivus]

The Spurs will need a big, a good one.
There aren't many good ones: Love and Davis, ill take any of those.

[ChumpDumper]

It's a little premature and makes some enormous assumptions about Leonard, on and off the court.

[cd021]

He ain't going anywhere, and yes they will need to tank to get some good draft picks because FA is not going to help out much for our Spurs. Enjoy the next couple of years while they last, I have a feeling that we will be bad for quite awhile once Timmy calls it quits.

The league is changing more players are moving to the money. Great teams that are over the cap, can't just acquire big salaries with minimal penalties like Dallas and The Lakers used to do. Also the changing of the MLE from 5.5 million over 5 years to 5 million over 3 years is also a reason why we say a player like Jarret Jack sign with the Cavs instead of the Thunder.

The Hawks got a borderline Allstar in Paul Milsap, The Bobcats got another in Al Jefferson. Basically if you have a ton of cap space and bigger markets don't (I.E. Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, 76ers) then you are much more likely to net an impact player.

[cd021]

I think we can rebuild Pacers-style: end up in the middle of the draft without bottoming out, draft some killer value picks and develop the players, field a revitalized team. Remember what the Spurs did with their one Top 20 pick of the 21st Century.

Yeah, but that took 5 years to due but they really did a fantastic job of drafting

Roy Hibbert
Paul George
Lan Stephenson
Danny Granger

I think only one of those players (George) was taken with a top 10 pick the rest were in the middle of the draft.

[Richie]

Duncan may not even come back next year if we win, pull a DRob and go out on top. This could be the last dance, so enjoy it. His priorities seem to have changed with the collapse of his marriage. I watched an interview in training camp, and he was asked if he would sign another deal. He said no, that he wanted to spend time with his kids, and that he promised them he wouldn't play longer than his contract.

Do you have a link to the interview? I'd like to watch it.

Once a player retires there is no coming back, he could retire tonight if he wanted to spend more time with his kids. He's got nothing left to prove to anybody.

He seems like the kind of guy who would keep a promise to his kids if he made one, so it's likely already decided if that's the case. Hell, give him a deal where he only needs to play games in Texas until the playoffs.

[cd021]

I think we'll need to trade away Parker and have Kawhi carry us in to the lottery for a few years.

Parker/Kawhi/Tiago is a 8th seed/late lottery team with no hope of a championship. Trade Parker for picks and ride Kawhi to a couple Top 5 lottery picks and cross our fingers.

However, if we could lure Aldridge here in 2015, I like a Parker/Kawhi/Aldridge 3, maybe Duncan comes back for a year at 20 min/game if his body is holding up

Parker is 31 now. If Manu and Duncan retire in 2 seasons, he will be 33. Its doubtful that we could net a lotto pick for a 33 Y.O PG. Probably a mid round pick from a up and coming team hoping to make a splash in the post season.

[Vash StampedE]

I really hope we can keep a hold of Leonard and build a competitive team around him with the right type of players. My biggest concern though is that I pray that we don't lose our culture..... Cause that's the biggest thing that differentiates us from the rest of the league. That's what makes SAS special.

God save the Spurs.
I agree. It seems that once Duncan retires, so does Pop and perhaps, Buford also?

[Richie]

I think we can rebuild Pacers-style: end up in the middle of the draft without bottoming out, draft some killer value picks and develop the players, field a revitalized team. Remember what the Spurs did with their one Top 20 pick of the 21st Century.

For every 10 teams that rebuild 'Pacers style', only one really becomes a contender. Getting better through the draft is as much luck as anything, even moreso without Top 10 picks.

[Richie]

Parker is 31 now. If Manu and Duncan retire in 2 seasons, he will be 33. Its doubtful that we could net a lotto pick for a 33 Y.O PG. Probably a mid round pick from a up and coming team hoping to make a splash in the post season.

Seriously? He will be the #1 guy on a contender and a legit MVP candidate too over the next 2 years. The only problem is that he would rather go somewhere in free agency or resign with us than go to a lottery team.

Teams might not want to give him a lot of money, but Parker will have no shortage of suitors amongst contenders in 2015. He's become an elite playmaker and mid range shooter, barring injury he'll be able to play at a top level until 2017. Maybe Bud and the Hawks will give up something for him, or the 76ers with Brown.

Either way, I don't think we'll get very good value for him since he can go wherever he wants as a free agent. Thinking about it I'd rather resign him so he can retire a Spur

[PlayNando]

Seriously? He will be the #1 guy on a contender and a legit MVP candidate too over the next 2 years. The only problem is that he would rather go somewhere in free agency or resign with us than go to a lottery team.

Teams might not want to give him a lot of money, but Parker will have no shortage of suitors amongst contenders in 2015. He's become an elite playmaker and mid range shooter, barring injury he'll be able to play at a top level until 2017. Maybe Bud and the Hawks will give up something for him, or the 76ers with Brown.

Either way, I don't think we'll get very good value for him since he can go wherever he wants as a free agent. Thinking about it I'd rather resign him so he can retire a Spur
Parker could conceivably fall off pretty brutally over the next few years as his speed leaves him, though. We'll see tbh.

[cjw]

The Spurs will suck once Parker leaves. But not really before. They have little problem being a good regular-season team without him. It's their playoff ceiling that will be lowered dramatically.

Exactly... this talk of falling from the 1/2 seed range to out of the playoffs sans Duncan is ridiculous. But a second round exit is likely the ceiling, unless they fell into a situation like Memphis did last year. Playoffs are a much different animal.



I think we can rebuild Pacers-style: end up in the middle of the draft without bottoming out, draft some killer value picks and develop the players, field a revitalized team. Remember what the Spurs did with their one Top 20 pick of the 21st Century.

Right on. I disagree with the people who think outright tanking is the solution to reloading - remember that the only #1 picks since Hakeem who have won titles with their original teams are David and Timmy, with top three picks more often clogging a team with outsized rookie contracts. Look at how quickly teams are running from the Wesley Johnsons / Evan Turners / etc. of the world once they start approaching eight figure annual salaries on qualifying offers. Guys drafted towards the middle to end of the lottery tend to turn out just fine and offer more cap flexibility.

Lastly, Aldridge isn't coming here so time to stop smoking that pipe. Neither is Kevin Love.

[szkorhetz]

I suspect that the Spurs will give a big push for Kevin Love when his Kahnnnn-enabled early jail-break card has a chance to be used at the end of 2015 (right when Manu's, Parker's, Duncan's contracts expire).

They might even coax Duncan to play a couple more years - maybe as a reserve and conserve his energy furthermore - as he grooms Love to improve his game further.

A Parker-Leonard-Love-Splitter core with suitable role players will threaten as a contender.
I just won't be able to be a Spurs fan, if we sign Love. I just hate that moron. I really prefer Favors or Davis, but yeah, neither gonna happen.

[justinandimcool]

if you think Kawhi staying will make or break the franchise, you are blind. nothing screams franchise player about him, not even in the finals. obviously would be wonderful to have him as a 3rd or 4th option for the next 10 years, but Spurs are still fucked after Tim and Pop leave no matter who's on the roster.

[Richie]

Right on. I disagree with the people who think outright tanking is the solution to reloading - remember that the only #1 picks since Hakeem who have won titles with their original teams are David and Timmy, with top three picks more often clogging a team with outsized rookie contracts. Look at how quickly teams are running from the Wesley Johnsons / Evan Turners / etc. of the world once they start approaching eight figure annual salaries on qualifying offers. Guys drafted towards the middle to end of the lottery tend to turn out just fine and offer more cap flexibility.

What absolute nonsense. Between '05-'10, there have been 8 players picked between #2-#5 that have made an All NBA teams. Between #5-#60, only 6 players have that same distinction. Of those, only Marc Gasol, David Lee and Rondo were taken outside the Top 10.

The idea that Top 5 picks are overrated is absurd. Rookie contracts are only guaranteed for a couple of years, there is no burden on the franchise whatsoever to keep paying them if they aren't good enough, just decline the team option. Outsized? Wesley Johnson got paid less in Minnesota than Danny Green is getting here, hardly a burden on the franchise.

Players drafted from the middle-to-end lottery may turn out 'just fine', although between '05-'10 not a single All-NBA player has come from the mid round #11-#20 range. In fact, the last player to be drafted in that range and make the All-NBA team was Zach Randolph in 2001.

It's interesting that in terms of All-NBA players, the success rate of the second round seems to be about the same as #11-#30 range, which to me means there is no point in bring bad at all unless you really tank and grab a much higher percentage Top 5 pick.

[Bynumite]

lolkiwi :lol

[Bynumite]

ST member Tim_5rings (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=35070) lurking this thread :lmao Talk about premature ejaculation :lol

Not happening buddy... it's Kobe 5 > 4 Jim & done.

[wildbill2u]

future rotation = ......................

cojo/kabongo
hanga
kawhi/livo charles
bertans/ayers
richards/baynes
That team would probably end the streak of 50+ win seasons. Probably put us into the lottery though.

[wildbill2u]

Kwahi would have to get to a consistent 20+ppg, 10 rebounds and 5 assists to be THE Man on the Spurs of the future. You need someone with that type of ability and consistency to be the player that a team is built around.

And maybe most importantly, the desire to be the MAN and demand the ball and deliver in the closing minutes has to be there

I know that Jordan blossomed into greatness in his third year, but I don't see that happening with Kwahi. He will be a good player, maybe an occsasional All-Star like Sean ******, but not one of the greats or Top 50 of all time.

[Dex]

I think we'll need to trade away Parker and have Kawhi carry us in to the lottery for a few years.


That sounds like a real great sales pitch for Kawhi.

[jestersmash]

Kwahi would have to get to a consistent 20+ppg, 10 rebounds and 5 assists to be THE Man on the Spurs of the future. You need someone with that type of ability and consistency to be the player that a team is built around.

And maybe most importantly, the desire to be the MAN and demand the ball and deliver in the closing minutes has to be there

I know that Jordan blossomed into greatness in his third year, but I don't see that happening with Kwahi. He will be a good player, maybe an occsasional All-Star like Sean ******, but not one of the greats or Top 50 of all time.

Even that's doubtful to be honest. And forget about All-NBA.

[jestersmash]

Honestly though the hyperbole surrounding Kawhi on this site is pretty ridiculous at times. He's done nothing to show that he has the potential to become a franchise player, so why are we treating him as one?

Like, imagine if this thread was about Boris Diaw @ 24 years of age instead. Diaw is a very, very good player. He causes plenty of matchup problems across the league and he's a valuable asset to a championship team, but he's not a centerpiece or anything. The same is true of Kawhi. He's an excellent piece on a championship team but some people are making him out to be more than he is.

[cd021]

Seriously? He will be the #1 guy on a contender and a legit MVP candidate too over the next 2 years. The only problem is that he would rather go somewhere in free agency or resign with us than go to a lottery team.

Teams might not want to give him a lot of money, but Parker will have no shortage of suitors amongst contenders in 2015. He's become an elite playmaker and mid range shooter, barring injury he'll be able to play at a top level until 2017. Maybe Bud and the Hawks will give up something for him, or the 76ers with Brown.

Either way, I don't think we'll get very good value for him since he can go wherever he wants as a free agent. Thinking about it I'd rather resign him so he can retire a Spur

Thats a very optimistic look. Parker will be 33 and in his 14 season. Plus 2 seasons of the post season and international play as well. If he improves his outside shooting to compensate for his decreasing speed and the Spurs find an other play maker to take some of the load off he could continue to be a great player but not on the level of the past two season, I would think.

Also just because Atlanta & Philadelphia has a former Spurs coach, doesn't mean that they will be any more interested in Parker than any other team. I don't believe Parker would leave but his next contract will be interesting.

[cjw]

What absolute nonsense. Between '05-'10, there have been 8 players picked between #2-#5 that have made an All NBA teams. Between #5-#60, only 6 players have that same distinction. Of those, only Marc Gasol, David Lee and Rondo were taken outside the Top 10.

The idea that Top 5 picks are overrated is absurd. Rookie contracts are only guaranteed for a couple of years, there is no burden on the franchise whatsoever to keep paying them if they aren't good enough, just decline the team option. Outsized? Wesley Johnson got paid less in Minnesota than Danny Green is getting here, hardly a burden on the franchise.

Players drafted from the middle-to-end lottery may turn out 'just fine', although between '05-'10 not a single All-NBA player has come from the mid round #11-#20 range. In fact, the last player to be drafted in that range and make the All-NBA team was Zach Randolph in 2001.

It's interesting that in terms of All-NBA players, the success rate of the second round seems to be about the same as #11-#30 range, which to me means there is no point in bring bad at all unless you really tank and grab a much higher percentage Top 5 pick.

So if 8 top five picks have made it, 22 haven't. So you have a 25% chance of getting an All NBAer (who may already be done with his contract by the time he makes it there). In other words, by no means a sure bet. I would take our scouting over others. There's a little cherrypicking going on too, as the Kobes, Nashes, Parkers, Ginobilis, etc. of the world have gone later in the draft than the top 10 but earlier years.

To get down to a top five pick, you have to be REALLY bad (low 30s in win total). I'm in favor of tanking if the situation is right when Parker is on the way out, but until then, let's keep it going.

[hater]

let's face reality

Kawhi is a great prospect right now and a SOLID role player in a championship team. If we are lucky he could blossom into an allstar and a LEGIT 3rd string leader in a team. Kinda like the MATRIX

We would need a small miracle for Kawhi to then blossom to a legit 2nd BANANA in a team. and one of the greatest miracles in history for him to blossom into a LEGIT #1 option in a team.

[HarlemHeat37]

Leonard is already a legit #3 on a title team, he showed that last year, and in a league where a guy like Luol Deng has made multiple All-Star teams, Kawhi will make a few, tbh..

He will never be a franchise player, and he will need to make serious strides to become a #2 guy, tbh..

[cd021]

let's face reality

Kawhi is a great prospect right now and a SOLID role player in a championship team. If we are lucky he could blossom into an allstar and a LEGIT 3rd string leader in a team. Kinda like the MATRIX

We would need a small miracle for Kawhi to then blossom to a legit 2nd BANANA in a team. and one of the greatest miracles in history for him to blossom into a LEGIT #1 option in a team.

I Agree

[SpursDynasty21]

I still think Kawhi Leonard is going to become a star player. Hopefully, the Spurs can have some players like Kabongo, DeShaun Thomas, etc. come in and play well in a few seaons. Also, the Spurs should have the cap space to make a run at a few good free agents. I don't see the team tanking unless they decide that's what's best. In that case, trading Parker for draft picks and moves like that might make sense. If that happens, though...I agree that it would be hard to persuade Kawhi Leonard to stay with the Spurs.

[exstatic]

I still think Kawhi Leonard is going to become a star player. Hopefully, the Spurs can have some players like Kabongo, DeShaun Thomas, etc. come in and play well in a few seaons. Also, the Spurs should have the cap space to make a run at a few good free agents. I don't see the team tanking unless they decide that's what's best. In that case, trading Parker for draft picks and moves like that might make sense. If that happens, though...I agree that it would be hard to persuade Kawhi Leonard to stay with the Spurs.

Deshaun Thomas may never sign with the Spurs, let alone play. There's no NBA position he can defend. Forget about Thomas.

[wildchild]

I still think Kawhi Leonard is going to become a star player. Hopefully, the Spurs can have some players like Kabongo, DeShaun Thomas, etc. come in and play well in a few seaons. Also, the Spurs should have the cap space to make a run at a few good free agents. I don't see the team tanking unless they decide that's what's best. In that case, trading Parker for draft picks and moves like that might make sense. If that happens, though...I agree that it would be hard to persuade Kawhi Leonard to stay with the Spurs.

:tu

Tim and Tony remain the team's stars and Pop isn't calling more plays for Leonard. In a couple of years without Timmy, Kawhi'll be our best winning card. Right now it's still a work in progress.

[-21-]

let's face reality

Kawhi is a great prospect right now and a SOLID role player in a championship team. If we are lucky he could blossom into an allstar and a LEGIT 3rd string leader in a team. Kinda like the MATRIX

We would need a small miracle for Kawhi to then blossom to a legit 2nd BANANA in a team. and one of the greatest miracles in history for him to blossom into a LEGIT #1 option in a team.


Leonard is already a legit #3 on a title team, he showed that last year, and in a league where a guy like Luol Deng has made multiple All-Star teams, Kawhi will make a few, tbh..

He will never be a franchise player, and he will need to make serious strides to become a #2 guy, tbh..
I agree with both of these. ^