Give me some refresher guys..Was Ginobili ever a superstar in his career?

[apalisoc_9]

Was just thinking about Tony being and superstar and all tbh..I don't believe Manu was ever was though...

[testies]

what is your definition of superstar?

[chapnis]

Equal best player on a championship team. 2005.

[scanry]

Neither Tony nor Manu have ever been Superstars. They have never been consistent enough to carry the Spurs to the title. Tim was always there to do the moping when they screwed up.

[jhuan16]

05~08 kind of, but too bad during that period the league got guys like T-mac, Kobe, Arenas, AI putting up 40+ points every other night. So Manu is being know as the efficient player maker that help you win not a superstar in his prime. But come to think of it today we got scrub like James Harden being consider as top 3 shooting guards in the league. So I would say yeah Manu was a superstar at least he play like one during his prime consider by today's standard.

[Nero5]

Gino would have a streak of games where he would be incredible and then he would go 'missing' in comparison. But context is important and not only the scoresheet - there were times where I would ignore Kobe in his prime and marvel at Gino, but consistency - no it was not really a feature of what is a very very good player.

[blkroadrunners]

No.

[Mal]

Define superstar ? Is Dwert a superstar ? Is Blake Griffin a superstar ? Kevin Love ?

[Macca76]

They certainly didn't get superstars salaries.
But were worth much more than they get paid for and they were bargains. TP still is, Manu not so much.
People tend to overlook this fact, especially for TP.

[Johnny RIngo]

They certainly didn't get superstars salaries.
But were worth much more than they get paid for and they were bargains. TP still is, Manu not so much.
People tend to overlook this fact, especially for TP.

Consdiering how injury prone Manu was for his career and the minute limitations he's needed, he's earned more than his worth in the NBA. Not saying he's been overpaid but he sure as hell wasn't underpaid throughout his career.

On topic, a very clear NO. Superstars are franchise players and Ginobili was more of a 2nd option/3rd option sidekick type. Manu only looked like a superstar in the 2005 playoffs.

[PingPong]

None of them are americans. Nowitzki never was a superstar too. But a dumbass like D-Ho is a superstar. Simply like that.

[Johnny RIngo]

None of them are americans. Nowitzki never was a superstar too. But a dumbass like D-Ho is a superstar. Simply like that.

:lol

Dirk sure as hell was a superstar. He won a goddamn MVP, Finals MVP and has been the cornerstorne of the Mavs for more than a decade.

[PingPong]

But not in merchandising terms or to the media.

[Macca76]

First 2 Manu contracts were bargains, for the the 2 last ones I agree with Johnny Ringo. For TP however, I think Spurs got GREAT value and TP haters never see this. But this off topic

[pjjrfan]

YES!!!! From the moment he stepped on an NBA floor, it took Pop a while to catch on.

[TMTTRIO]

Not anywhere in the NBA. He is an international superstar though after he helped lead his team more than once in beating Team USA and once bringing home that gold medal. I hear all this Manu bashing lately. Just be glad he turned out to be good. Most 56th picks in the draft aren't even supposed to make it to the NBA let alone be a big part of winning. Oh it would've been interesting to see him if he didn't have to play. The sixth man role in his prime backing up every other SG we've had since he's been here.

[weebo]

There are stars and there are superstars. A label like "superstar" are reserved for guys like Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, and Duncan. These are your superstars. They're the guys that can lead you to the promise land. Guys like Manu, TP, Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, etc... are stars. They may be considered stars across the NBA or amongst their own teams. These are the guys that can help you get to the promise land but can't do it alone.

[skulls138]

Hell yeah. There were times when he was the best person to ever touch the ball. And on defense he made it seem like there were six players on the floor, always causing chaos and disruptions. He's a hall of famer, thats for sure.

[Solid D]

In the USA, and around the basketball globe, I think Manu has been a star. In Argentina, he's been a superstar. He was named the most important athlete of the last decade in Argentina.

[sananspursfan21]

*see 2005

[Kool Bob Love]

Manu is a winner on all levels. The fuck are you talking about?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

yeah 05-09 I'd say he was and in '11 he was our best player

[Skull-1]

Not a superstar. That's rare territory for people like Timmeh. Closest Manu got to that was 2005 Finals...

[TXstbobcat]

He has been an all-star and a great exciting player on championship teams. Everyone has their own opinions about what puts a player in the superstar category. He is a god overseas and I would consider him an international superstar and Manu will alway be one of my favorite spurs.

[benstanfield]

"Superstar" has more to do with notoriety than talent. Both were superstars in their home country.

[PingPong]

I think "superstar" means big marketing contracts, media exposition, prestige into the league, in official terms. Manu is a legend, but never received the same praises or was incensed like some less talented american native athletes. I mean Money, fame. But fuck the media, the league, the marketing.

[y2kbug]

2004-2005 he was untouchable and probably one of the best players on the planet. Championship and Gold Medal to prove it.

[spurraider21]

It's possible to be a superstar without leading a team to a title

[xmas1997]

I think "superstar" means big marketing contracts, media exposition, prestige into the league, in official terms. Manu is a legend, but never received the same praises or was incensed like some less talented american native athletes. I mean Money, fame. But fuck the media, the league, the marketing.

This is a true realistic unbiased perspective. TGY and his e-gang of Manu haters could take a few lessons from you.

[tenbeersbold]

Simply put NO....playing w/ Timmy does wonders for ones reputation

Super star at marketing himself to Mexicans in San Antonio YES,though he wouldn't actually come close to associating w/ any of the brown locals sadly enough.

[PlayNando]

Neither Tony nor Manu have ever been Superstars. They have never been consistent enough to carry the Spurs to the title. Tim was always there to do the moping when they screwed up.

[Skull-1]

Simply put NO....playing w/ Timmy does wonders for ones reputation

Super star at marketing himself to Mexicans in San Antonio YES,though he wouldn't actually come close to associating w/ any of the brown locals sadly enough.


He is too white for them I guess. He said as much.

[spurs10]

Manu is a winner on all levels. The fuck are you talking about? Exactly! Which explains why many of these guys spend a large portion of their lives talking about him. Just think if they put a small fraction of that time and energy into their families..??
I will enjoy the next two years and hope I can be there when he is inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[xmas1997]

Exactly! Which explains why many of these guys spend a large portion of their lives talking about him. Just think if they put a small fraction of that time and energy into their families..??
I will enjoy the next two years and hope I can be there when he is inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[PingPong]

He is too white for them I guess. He said as much.


Too european for the latinos, too White for the american basketball fans. LOL

[temujin]

Too european for the latinos, too White for the american basketball fans. LOL

Too intelligent, too.

[Arcadian]

Not in the NBA, but yes in international play.

[Juggity]

There are stars and there are superstars. A label like "superstar" are reserved for guys like Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, and Duncan. These are your superstars. They're the guys that can lead you to the promise land. Guys like Manu, TP, Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, etc... are stars. They may be considered stars across the NBA or amongst their own teams. These are the guys that can help you get to the promise land but can't do it alone.

[Proxy]

without getting into the semantics of what a superstar is, 48 points iirc

[HarlemHeat37]

He was a star player, borderline top 10 player, tbh..superstar depends on each individual's definition..

[jestersmash]

He was a PER superstar for a lot of his career. If you just assumed his production would stay constant and increased his minutes by 5-10 MPG, he'd have put up overall "superstar" numbers.

[jestersmash]

The problem is that it's not really reasonable to assume that his production would've stayed constant if you increased his minutes.

[Mikeanaro]

Define superstar ? Is Dwert a superstar ? Is Blake Griffin a superstar ? Kevin Love ?
None of them, probably the term MINI-STAR is closer for those guys

[elemento]

A star yes, a superstar no.

[Mikeanaro]

I would say too white for the latinos, here in Argentina most of us have Italian and Spanish heritage so he is a regular dude if you watch tv news here they always report what manu did last night, but every other country like Chile Brazil Paraguay Bolivia are more brownish (not trying to be racist here) but there is another issue too, which is most latinos only care about futbol and futbol and futbol, some soft ones would follow tennis too.

[PingPong]

I would say too white for the latinos, here in Argentina most of us have Italian and Spanish heritage so he is a regular dude if you watch tv news here they always report what manu did last night, but every other country like Chile Brazil Paraguay Bolivia are more brownish (not trying to be racist here) but there is another issue too, which is most latinos only care about futbol and futbol and futbol, some soft ones would follow tennis too.

I meant latinos from USA, wathever are their heritage (mostly mexicans and puertoricans, I guess.) Not the South americans.

[will_spurs]

Neither Tony nor Manu have ever been Superstars.

Finishing in the top 5 in MVP votes qualifies as being a superstar imo.

[Mikeanaro]

I meant latinos from USA, wathever are their heritage (mostly mexicans and puertoricans, I guess.) Not the South americans.
I know man, I was saying in an international way how manu can appeal the rest of the world, like kobe fans from Vietnam of Katzajistan

[Cry Havoc]

Neither Tony nor Manu have ever been Superstars. They have never been consistent enough to carry the Spurs to the title. Tim was always there to do the moping when they screwed up.

Tony isn't a superstar? A perennial MVP candidate? Mmmkay.

[PingPong]

I know man, I was saying in an international way how manu can appeal the rest of the world, like kobe fans from Vietnam of Katzajistan

You are right. With the exception of Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Uruguai and Brazil, But most of the South and latin american countries don't give a shit about basketball. Ironically, in Brazil, Scolla is more known by the average citizen than Manu because he beasts in every game against Brazil NT. :D

[hater]

Neither Tony nor Manu have ever been Superstars.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Parker has been the NBA Western MVP for 3 years already

[AntiChrist]

Dust off your 2005 Championship DVD and the answer is rather obvious.

[Skull-1]

Dust off your 2005 Championship DVD and the answer is rather obvious.


A flash in the pan. He was great that year and bordered on superstardom. Didn't attain it though. Hasn't approached that level in a long time...

[ElNono]

Dust off your 2005 Championship DVD and the answer is rather obvious.

Or the Athens Olympics 2004 footage...

[AntiChrist]

A flash in the pan. He was great that year and bordered on superstardom. Didn't attain it though. Hasn't approached that level in a long time...

He deserved finals mvp in 2005.

[spurs10]

Or the Athens Olympics 2004 footage...


He deserved finals mvp in 2005.His accomplishments speak for themselves.

[Skull-1]

He deserved finals mvp in 2005.

I thought so at the time, but now I realize Tim was and is the MVP of this team....and was in 2005's Finals.

[scanry]

Tim was banging heads with one the best defensive front court and still put up very good numbers. And people forget how great Ben Wallace was back in the days.

[ElNono]

Tim was banging heads with one the best defensive front court and still put up very good numbers. And people forget how great Ben Wallace was back in the days.

Toughest Finals, IMO... Detroit was also defending champs and top D in the league at the time, IIRC.

[Darkwaters]

Define superstar ? Is Dwert a superstar ? Is Blake Griffin a superstar ? Kevin Love ?

Seriously.

And by the measuring stick of "carried his team to a championship" then we could only just recently count Lebron James as a super star. And Kevin Durant and Carmello Anthony are still not in that category. So, that can't be it either.

[scanry]

Toughest Finals, IMO... Detroit was also defending champs and top D in the league at the time, IIRC.

Their whole identity went with Larry Brown. They would have been champs had they had Brown instead of Saunders who was too busy running them to the ground in the reg season.

I was very surprised at how easy the Heat dispatched them in the ECF.

[ElNono]

Their whole identity went with Larry Brown. They would have been champs had they had Brown instead of Saunders who was too busy running them to the ground in the reg season.

I was very surprised at how easy the Heat dispatched them in the ECF.

Agreed. Flip was awarded a contending team after underachieving in Minny. Joe Dumars got cocky too, picking Milicic over Melo.

[Sean Cagney]

Not a superstar. That's rare territory for people like Timmeh. Closest Manu got to that was 2005 Finals...

Yeah, he was a top 5 SG or higher though a few years! I remember those years when he would pour down 40 some odd on a team and will them to a victory. Manu in his prime was a very good player and a top SG in the league (Not the best but up there). I can live with that.

[jestersmash]

Yeah, he was a top 5 SG or higher though a few years! I remember those years when he would pour down 40 some odd on a team and will them to a victory. Manu in his prime was a very good player and a top SG in the league (Not the best but up there). I can live with that.

He was pretty much considered the rank 3 SG behind Kobe and Wade for a couple of years.

[TrainOfThought5]

Equal best player on a championship team. 2005.

Horrible definition of a superstar.

Who was the superstar on that piston team of 2004??

[Sean Cagney]

Their whole identity went with Larry Brown. They would have been champs had they had Brown instead of Saunders who was too busy running them to the ground in the reg season.

I was very surprised at how easy the Heat dispatched them in the ECF.
Your right, they won 65 games and that year appeared to be on top the the world and faves IMO to possibly win the title in 06 but they flamed out because he ran them into the ground trying to get near 70 wins. He ruined them during the regular season that year, he forgot it's a marathon and not a sprint. Saunders sucked IMO.

[Sean Cagney]

He was pretty much considered the rank 3 SG behind Kobe and Wade for a couple of years.

You are correct.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

In the USA, and around the basketball globe, I think Manu has been a star. In Argentina, he's been a superstar. He was named the most important athlete of the last decade in Argentina.

Actually, Manu is pretty popular across South American when it comes to basketball. And Manu was a Superstar in Europe and Italy, where he had multiple MVP trophies. Superstar on the international stage, winning the WC and Gold medal and being voted the best player of each tournament.

On the Spurs, he had to play 3rd fiddle to Duncan and Parker. On any other team, I pretty Manu would have been a sure cut Superstar by US fans. But considering that Manu has been voted the 2nd & 3rd best SG in the NBA by GMs and Coaches for many of years, I would say the consensus around the league would be that he was.

[SpurAddict561]

2005 vs the Suns, he destroyed them...and he got off on the Pistons too

[SpurAddict561]

Also 2007 run but he left me real sad in 06, in .4 and in game 6.

[Darkwaters]

He was Italian league MVP, and was very definitely a superstar in his time in Italy. To say nothing of his premium role in his Gold Medal win. But I assume the OP is referencing NBA play specifically.

[rascal]

No, he hasn't even averaged 20 points in a season. Super stars are go to franchise multiple all star type players.

[rascal]

He was pretty much considered the rank 3 SG behind Kobe and Wade for a couple of years.

Who considered him ranked that high, this board?

[TheGreatYacht]

no, just no.

[xmas1997]

He was Italian league MVP, and was very definitely a superstar in his time in Italy. To say nothing of his premium role in his Gold Medal win. But I assume the OP is referencing NBA play specifically.

TGY can't refute this. Unless he is spamming.

[Skull-1]

TGY can't refute this. Unless he is spamming.

Italian League / Olympics > NBA ------ NOT!

[AntiChrist]

Skull obsessed with rewriting the history of Manu Ginobili. Good luck with that.

[Skull-1]

Skull obsessed with rewriting the history of Manu Ginobili. Good luck with that.

Yes. Here's an example: Manu Ginobili was awesome in the 2013 Finals. He was clutch, made good decisions, and was our best player. Without him we would have been swept by the Heat, but he rose up like a champion and almost single-handedly stemmed the Heat Horde.


:rolleyes

[Darkwaters]

Oh, is Skull-1 a TheGreatYacht troll? I had TGY on ignore and just noticed that they have inverted matching avatars.

Just another for my list I guess.

[Skull-1]

Oh, is Skull-1 a TheGreatYacht troll? I had TGY on ignore and just noticed that they have inverted matching avatars.

Just another for my list I guess.


Yes, sticking one's head in the sand or fingers in their ears when confronted with unpleasant truth makes that truth null and void. Good strategy. :rolleyes

[Darkwaters]

Yes, sticking one's head in the sand or fingers in their ears when confronted with unpleasant truth makes that truth null and void. Good strategy. :rolleyes

Works for Obama

[Skull-1]

Works for Obama


You have a point.

[ElNono]

Yes, sticking one's head in the sand or fingers in their ears when confronted with unpleasant truth makes that truth null and void. Good strategy. :rolleyes

So much irony in this post... :lmao

[Skull-1]

So much irony in this post... :lmao


Again, you haven't refuted a thing I have said. Lying to yourself doesn't change that fact. Now get back to school before you're truant.

[PlayNando]

Yeah, he was a top 5 SG or higher though a few years! I remember those years when he would pour down 40 some odd on a team and will them to a victory. Manu in his prime was a very good player and a top SG in the league (Not the best but up there). I can live with that.

Hell, he is still arguably a top 5-10 SG. The talent level of SGs in the NBA is lacking these days tbh.

[ElNono]

Again, you haven't refuted a thing I have said. Lying to yourself doesn't change that fact. Now get back to school before you're truant.

You've yet to make a point.... what's there to refute?

Did he beat Duncan, Wade, Lebron, etc as "the man" in his team, yes or no? simple question.

[disciple]

Don't give it much thought really. Superstar doesn't always translate to winner.

[ElNono]

Don't give it much thought really. Superstar doesn't always translate to winner.

Plus "superstar" is a fairly loose term... everybody has it's own idea of what that is. There's no doubt he was a star in some of his teams though.

[spurs10]

Manu's career is like a storybook. What hasn't he done? Who that has truly watched him over the years hasn't been aware that eventually he would slow down? I like the way he is playing now and think Marco can help in making sure his minutes are reasonable.

[hater]

on a serious note. I have to agree Manu was a superstar at some point. Because of his international fame, similar thing as scrub Yao Ming. Manu brought many latin and especially argentine fans to the NBA and should be commended for that. Most argentines hardly knew what a rebound was, or any rules of the game (most still don't tbh :lol)

[DAF86]

on a serious note. I have to agree Manu was a superstar at some point. Because of his international fame, similar thing as scrub Yao Ming. Manu brought many latin and especially argentine fans to the NBA and should be commended for that. Most argentines hardly knew what a rebound was, or any rules of the game (most still don't tbh :lol)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_FIBA_World_Championship

[DAF86]

Bolivians on the other hand...

[Stabula]

Based on how decorated his career has been I'd personally call Manu a legitimate superstar in his prime. He's the most celebrated athlete in his home country, he's won multiple NBA championships, and personally led his country's team to an olympic gold medal against Team USA. That's a superstar if I ever heard one.

[Manudona]

How easy is for the haters to remember every wrong Manu did for the Spurs to lose a championship they even include .4 which is rather pathetic, but then they forget the other "could have been" championships where Manu was the only one showing up, or worse when he was injured and missed a playoff run, can you guys remind me how far did the Spurs go?