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CaptainHook
07-26-2005, 08:02 PM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050726/D8BJCRRO0.html

NASA Studies Debris Recorded During Launch

http://drudgereport.com/debris.jpg

Jul 26, 7:57 PM (ET)

By JEFF DONN

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - In uneasy reminders of the Columbia accident, a thermal tile apparently got chipped and other debris whirled around Discovery as it rumbled toward space Tuesday, but it wasn't clear if the shuttle's sensitive skin had been jeopardized.

A 1 1/2-inch-wide bit of tile captured on camera appeared to fly off the shuttle's belly, on the edge of a door that encloses the nose landing gear. It was not clear if the tile had been struck by anything. Pieces of tile, which protect the shuttle from searing heat on return to Earth, have been lost on past flights without preventing a safe homecoming.

"We're going frame-by-frame through the imagery," said John Shannon, a NASA operations manager.

Also, NASA video revealed what appeared to be a sizable piece of material - maybe a chunk of insulation - coming off the shuttle's external fuel tank two minutes into flight. It did not strike the orbiter that carries the seven astronauts, the NASA manager said. Other agency footage showed covers flying off Discovery's thrusters - something expected to happen.

NASA managers said they would take several days to make a full judgment of any damage to the shuttle and decide how to deal with it.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration is seeing more of the impact of launch on the shuttle than ever before, thanks to its most elaborate array of cameras and other imaging in history. "I fully expected we would see things that we hadn't seen in the past," said Shannon.

NASA trained more than 110 cameras on Discovery as it rumbled toward orbit. That's roughly 30 more than during the last shuttle launch - Columbia's 2003 mission that killed all seven astronauts and grounded the fleet until now.

The new cameras are meant to provide better views of damage to the shuttle's exterior from falling insulation, ice created by supercold fuel, or other materials. "Along with cameras on the ground, and in and on the shuttle itself, this imaging system will provide an unprecedented look at shuttle liftoff and atmospheric flight," said Bob Page, who is supervising NASA's camera team.

NASA wants to avoid a repeat of the Columbia mission, when a slab of insulating foam gashed its wing as it hurtled toward orbit. Mission ground crew suspected the strike, but blurry images made it hard to judge damage, investigators said.

For this launch, cameras were posted at new sites to track Discovery's launch from three angles. NASA set up new high-definition digital video cameras that can load images into the computer at the Kennedy Space Center launch site within 15 minutes of liftoff.

A camera on Discovery's giant external fuel tank also gave an unprecedented look at the shuttle's whole ascent. The astronauts then took digital pictures as the jettisoned tank tumbled back toward Earth.

In an experiment, two weather planes with crew in pressurized suits - for flight above 50,000 feet - shadowed the shuttle 20 miles away and captured high-altitude digital images through a telescope.

"It's a real expensive video game trying to keep the shuttle ... in the field of view," said crewman Brian Barnett.

Almost 90 impact sensors on the shuttle's wings, as well as radar, were arrayed to back up the pictures taken during liftoff.

Spy satellites were to photograph the shuttle later in the mission. The crew of the international space station will take pictures of the shuttle tiles when the craft approaches later in the week.

About 100 analysts at Kennedy, Johnson and Marshall space centers have been assigned to study the shuttle pictures and help decide if it was seriously damaged by any debris.

While the high-definition video can be viewed quickly, analysts must wait about a day for the first delivery of film, which gives the sharpest pictures.

NASA did not expect to eliminate all debris from shuttle liftoffs, despite its safety improvements. If dangerous damage has occurred, the astronauts can take temporary refuge inside the space station, and another shuttle crew could be sent up on a rescue mission.

MannyIsGod
07-26-2005, 08:06 PM
Fucking ridiculous. I swear.

TheDude
07-26-2005, 08:45 PM
There should be quite a few people watching this shuttle descend.

ObiwanGinobili
07-26-2005, 09:16 PM
anyone know the $$ cost of a spacewalk to get a human eye view of this missing tile??

midgetonadonkey
07-26-2005, 09:30 PM
This space program is the biggest waste of tax dollars. Actually, it's second to the war.

ObiwanGinobili
07-26-2005, 09:32 PM
amen.

ObiwanGinobili
07-26-2005, 09:37 PM
to me the space program is an "extra" that you spend $$ on when you've allready put aside for savings and still have some extra dough.

there are plenty of things in the US that could really really use the $$ we spend on the space program. (health care etc.) I have no problem with space exploratiojn itself... but i think we should hold off on stuff like that till after we've handled some other things.

It's like guys who live with thier momma in a shoddy littel house but have 5k worth of rims on thier mazda. Meanwhile wearing sean john and timberlands and can't pay the rent. UGHHHH. thast basically the US spending $$ we ain't got on space.

MannyIsGod
07-26-2005, 09:48 PM
Well, thats all bullshit. Sorry, but the amount the US spends on scientific research (thats not military related) is miniscule when compared to the bullshit we spend money on all the time.

The space program is very warranted, even if the shuttle missions aren't.

Spam
07-26-2005, 09:51 PM
Debris falls off the Shuttle EVERY launch so this is no big deal.

Next time you all bitch about your satellite TV going down you'll Thank the space program.

Spurs košarka kultura
07-26-2005, 10:01 PM
Well, thats all bullshit. Sorry, but the amount the US spends on scientific research (thats not military related) is miniscule when compared to the bullshit we spend money on all the time.

Sad but true, being in the biotechnology field, I've heard from EVERY SINGLE professor, supervisor, or mentor I've had that if we could just get funding for certain studies, we would have cures for many prominent (and at this moment incurable) dieases. To be honest, funding (or lack there of) is the most aggravating part of any aspect in the biotech. field.

Spam
07-26-2005, 10:05 PM
Sad but true, being in the biotechnology field, I've heard from EVERY SINGLE professor, supervisor, or mentor I've had that if we could just get funding for certain studies, we would have cures for many prominent (and at this moment incurable) dieases. To be honest, funding (or lack there of) is the most aggravating part of any aspect in the biotech. field.

If only the cures would be for the benefit of mankind and not the benefit of the large drug companies.

MannyIsGod
07-26-2005, 11:19 PM
Debris don't fall of on every launch. I'd love to see information supporting that.

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-27-2005, 12:23 AM
I'm not sure anyone who has a clue about about science and research can say that NASA is a waste of money.

But I guess y'all gotta have something to bitch about...

TheTruth
07-27-2005, 01:42 AM
Debris don't fall of on every launch. I'd love to see information supporting that.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/07/26/space.shuttle/index.html


"We did not come into this flight expecting to eliminate" all falling debris, he said at an evening news briefing at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. "But we knew that we had the tools available to us to characterize it."

Shannon said space shuttles have been known to shed tiles without safety consequences.

Because of the additional photography, "I fully expected we would see things we hadn't seen in the past," he said, describing the liftoff overall as "extremely clean."

I guess it is more common then we think.

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 10:05 AM
I'm still waiting for information that says debris falls of everytime.

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 10:08 AM
The space program is important. The shuttle program is a joke. One of the benefits of the space program is innovation. What has been innovative on the shuttle in the last 30 years? NASA is a bloated bureaucracy that needs a swift kick in the pants.

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 10:35 AM
I'm still waiting for information that says debris falls of everytime.


Although the space shuttles have been showered by small pieces of debris thousands of times during the 24 years that they have been flying, Nasa can no longer naively close its eyes to the possibility of danger.

BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4496955.stm)

Cant_Be_Faded
07-27-2005, 10:35 AM
if this space ship blows up on the way down too, i think its conspiracy

trying to shut off the space program by making us scared (who woulda thought they used that tactic)

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 10:54 AM
That doesn't say everytime. Also, a source directly from the shuttle program would be better than an article that just throws out numbers without backing. ( More importantly, debris does not hit the tiles everytime. Trying to trivialize what happend yesterday by providing false information is idiocy. While I'm not saying that the shuttle won't be able to safely return, I think there is real concern here.

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 10:56 AM
I'm not trying to trivialize anything, but a realistic assessment is that the shuttle is struck routinely by all sorts of objects. Dust in the air, pieces of insulation foam, ice crystals, etc.

What if they hit a bird? That is something that should have been examined well beforehand.

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 10:59 AM
Dust in the air is not debris. Give me a break!

1369
07-27-2005, 11:05 AM
SWC, the main fuel tank did sustain a bird strike on this launch. I don't have time to find the pic on the internet, but I know it is out there if you look.

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 11:07 AM
Dust in the air is not debris. Give me a break!

The hell it ain't! You ride through a cloud of large dust particles on a motorcycle, and then imagine that going several times the speed of sound.

I guess sandblasters just "magically" knock crap off of rusty parts. :lol

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 11:09 AM
SWC, the main fuel tank did sustain a bird strike on this launch. I don't have time to find the pic on the internet, but I know it is out there if you look.

Thanks, 1369, I'll look for it.

One of the design groups in my senior design class at A&M got to design improved "chicken cannons" to simulate an in-air strike of birds by commercial jet aircraft.

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 11:09 AM
:lol

The dust content of the air is hardly enough to damage the shuttle.

I think the main concern here is debris falling onto the heat tiles.

SWC Bonfire
07-27-2005, 11:12 AM
I am sure that in-air and microscopic debris is a very real design consideration for many parts of the spacecraft, probably most critically the leading edges of the wings.

1369
07-27-2005, 11:12 AM
Manny, you might want to check this article out.

Dozens of the tiles are routinely damaged or lost during every shuttle flight, apparently without causing problems. (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3350)

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 11:15 AM
Good find. Refresh my memory as to why the Columbia diaster happend? I wasn't aware that tile damage was so frequent.

And yeah, I think they prepare for dust in the design stage especially for micro-meteorites.

travis2
07-27-2005, 11:18 AM
:lol

The dust content of the air is hardly enough to damage the shuttle.

I think the main concern here is debris falling onto the heat tiles.

The main problem concerning the shuttle disaster wasn't so much the presence of the debris...it was that no one had previously thought the foam debris that did shed would be a danger to tiles.

All kinds of debris is shed from the shuttle during launch. It's inevitable. The designers have gone back through to redesign areas that would produce "critical" debris.

Here's a rather technical report from NASA: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/111156main_RTF_imp_9th_changes.pdf

It's not the "every flight" confirmation you're looking for, but the treatment of debris within the report is one of expectation, rather than surprise. Mitigation and minimization, rather than complete source removal, is what is done.

I was never involved in the shuttle program...but I did spend many years in the flight test community (I actually met Col. Husband when he was a major and a "mere" line pilot at Edwards). Shit like that is devastating and you never want it to happen...but those who live/have lived in that community also understand that "shit happens". I'm not minimizing anything...just telling you how it is in that community.

1369
07-27-2005, 11:20 AM
Columbia was lost (I believe this is true) due to damage/loss of tile/tiles around one of the wheel well doors. Hot gas rushed into the unprotected well causing a chain of events that ultimately caused the shuttle to break apart.

I was up feeding my young daughter a bottle that morning and had the NASA channel on and I distinctly remember talk over the communications system about an elevated temperature reading in one of the wheel housings.

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 11:22 AM
Thats right. OK, both of those posts make complete sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Spam
07-27-2005, 11:30 AM
That was what I was alluding to.

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 11:32 AM
That was what I was alluding to. :lmao

Yeah, way to run your mouth and come back after someone posted information which was much more indepth than what you posted.

cherylsteele
07-27-2005, 05:40 PM
Debris falls off the Shuttle EVERY launch so this is no big deal.

Next time you all bitch about your satellite TV going down you'll Thank the space program.

We may very well have no internet if there was no space program and you would not have this foum to bitch....you would actually have to do it in person.

Ginofan
07-27-2005, 05:56 PM
SWC, the main fuel tank did sustain a bird strike on this launch. I don't have time to find the pic on the internet, but I know it is out there if you look.

Here are a few from NASA's homepage.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/123628main_hh_umb_no_annotation1_5002.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/123630main_hh_umb_no_annotation2_5002.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/123626main_s114e5070_low.jpg


S114-E-5002 (26 July 2005) --- Handheld still image taken by Discovery's crew of the external fuel tank as it was jettisoned after launch on July 26 were transmitted to the ground early July 27. Initial analysis of the imagery shows a large piece of foam that separated from the tank during the Shuttle's ascent to orbit. The foam detached from an area of the tank called the Protuberance Air Load (PAL) Ramp. This debris also was identified during ascent from a live video camera mounted on the external tank. The television view indicated the debris did not impact Discovery. In this still image, the area of missing foam on the tank is indicated by a light spot near the upper edge of the tank just below the liquid oxygen feedline. (Image Credit: NASA)

MannyIsGod
07-27-2005, 07:52 PM
They grounded them once again. This will be the last launch for awhile, once again.

Spam
07-27-2005, 09:27 PM
:lmao

Yeah, way to run your mouth and come back after someone posted information which was much more indepth than what you posted.

Damn, I didn't know I had to spell it out for you. Sorry your "google" talents are not up to par but I see your mouth is.

cmc$purs
07-28-2005, 08:35 AM
there is live streaming video on nasa website for the whole mission you can hear mission control talking back and forth to the shuttle way cool
sorry i dont have a link just go to nasa click on live tv the realplayer one has the audio check it out