Texas Monthly: "Growing Disillusioned with HOAs"

[Blake]

..... Like most new developments in U.S. metropolitan areas, Shadow Hills is governed by a private homeowners association, and membership is not optional. To live here, you must become a member, pay $237 a month in dues and abide by a lengthy and sometimes onerous set of rules. One that has been generating controversy of late is the “Conduct Code” section of the sssociation’s rules and regulations. It says homeowners are responsible for the actions of friends, visitors and even vendors.

That was the policy the HOA cited to Carolyn Little when she was issued a $50 speeding ticket, even though it wasn’t her car and she wasn’t driving. It was a Home Depot carpet installer who got caught by the association’s private police force for driving seven miles over the 35 mph speed limit down Sun City Blvd. Little, 71, said she just happened to be the first homeowner expecting a visit from Home Depot that day—and it was her address that the driver gave the guard when he checked in at the front gate.“

They want their money and they don’t care if it’s at the resident’s expense,” she said. “We like it here. It’s just that these rules are c*razy.”

The dissidents say complaints about heavy-handed rules fall on deaf ears in Shadow Hills: the association recently authorized the purchase of another radar gun—evidence, as they see it, that the property managers are looking out for their bottom line and not the best interests of the homeowners.While the Sun City Shadow Hills Community Association was organized as a nonprofit dedicated to the protection of the neighborhood and its residents, it is run by a for-profit management company. With a budget of about $10 million a year, it’s not unlike running a medium-sized business.*......

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/growing-disillusioned-hoas


I'm glad John Carona's racket is getting a little more light shined on it.

[boutons_deux]

biggest racket is foreclosing on house for HOA fees unpaid, then selling the home to an HOA staff friend.

[TSA]

Their rules. If you don't like it move.

[symple19]

I would never live in a neighborhood with a HOA. Dumbest shit you can possibly do

[ElNono]

Their rules. If you don't like it move.

Been telling you that about Cali for a while, tbh

[TSA]

Been telling you that about Cali for a while, tbh

The positives outweigh the negatives. I'm 15 minutes from the beach, 1 hour from snow, and 1 hour from the desert.

[Blake]

Their rules. If you don't like it move.

the ol' love it or leave it line.

[boutons_deux]

Their rules. If you don't like it move.

yep, simple as that, for rock-simple right-wing idiots

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If people want to incorporate by their own volition that is one thing. What I have issue is how developers are allowed to shove them down homeowners' throats. It is becoming more and more difficult to find a new home for sale that does not have a HOA prepackaged with it by the developers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Their rules. If you don't like it move.

Or you can try and change it. You seem ignorant to how the developers play a role and force feed the HOA to consumers. Self determination should be a good thing.

[boutons_deux]

Or you can try and change it. You seem ignorant to how the developers play a role and force feed the HOA to consumers. Self determination should be a good thing.

Once they sign the HOA contract, how do the powerless homeowners alter the contract to reduce their funds flowing the HOA? it ain't a democracy, it's private contract.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Once they sign the HOA contract, how do the powerless homeowners alter the contract to reduce their funds flowing the HOA? it ain't a democracy, it's private contract.

HOA contracts can be amended and the charter can be dissolved at the decision of the homeowners.

[Blake]

Problem is that most homeowners are too ignorant or apathetic to demand change.

Or they actually like the HOA being a bully.

[RandomGuy]

I would never live in a neighborhood with a HOA. Dumbest shit you can possibly do

+1

[TSA]

the ol' love it or leave it line.

Were they forced to buy a home with HOA?

[TSA]

Or you can try and change it. You seem ignorant to how the developers play a role and force feed the HOA to consumers. Self determination should be a good thing.

Don't move into a neighborhood with HOA if you don't want to deal with their shit, simple as that.

[Blake]

Were they forced to buy a home with HOA?

yeah, I got your silly false dilemma the first time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don't move into a neighborhood with HOA if you don't want to deal with their shit, simple as that.

Again you seem ignorant to how developers play a role and how it is becoming nigh impossible to find a neighborhood developed without it. Consumers are given no choice. Self determination should be a good thing.

This is what I get at when I talk about reading comprehension and critical thinking. You show poor skills in those regards.

[TSA]

Again you seem ignorant to how developers play a role and how it is becoming nigh impossible to find a neighborhood developed without it. Consumers are given no choice. Self determination should be a good thing.

This is what I get at when I talk about reading comprehension and critical thinking. You show poor skills in those regards.

Nearly impossible to find a home without HOA? I had zero problems finding mine and simply skipped over any homes in an HOA. I realize most new neighborhoods developed are HOA but considering only 20% of all homes are HOA it isn't anywhere near impossible, as you claim, to find one without. Again, if you don't want to deal with it don't move in.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nearly impossible to find a home without HOA? I had zero problems finding mine and simply skipped over any homes in an HOA. I realize most new neighborhoods developed are HOA but considering only 20% of all homes are HOA it isn't anywhere near impossible, as you claim, to find one without. Again, if you don't want to deal with it don't move in.

Again, most(more than 80%) NEW housing developments are using a HOA format.

This is what I get at when I talk about reading comprehension and critical thinking. You show poor skills in those regards.

[TSA]

Again, most(more than 80%) NEW housing developments are using a HOA format.

This is what I get at when I talk about reading comprehension and critical thinking. You show poor skills in those regards.

You want to talk about reading comprehension? :lol
From the post you JUST quoted:

I realize most new neighborhoods developed are HOA but considering only 20% of all homes are HOA it isn't anywhere near impossible, as you claim, to find one without

Thanks for confirming what I already stated though, next time maybe you'll comprehend better next time. Your dislike for me has once again gotten the best of you.

I'm still waiting for data showing it is nearly impossible to buy a home without HOA as it seems 80% of homeowners did so.

[TSA]

Just read your post where you stated "new", my bad :lol.

Doesn't change my stance on don't like it don't move in.

[TeyshaBlue]

Great. I think I just picked up a consulting contract with one of the largest HOA management companies in the US. Should I smuggle in a backpack nuke?

[clambake]

Great. I think I just picked up a consulting contract with one of the largest HOA management companies in the US. Should I smuggle in a backpack nuke?

well.....there's 50 bucks in it if you do.

[TeyshaBlue]

$50? Nukes dont grow on trees dude.

[Blake]

Great. I think I just picked up a consulting contract with one of the largest HOA management companies in the US. Should I smuggle in a backpack nuke?

If Carona isn't there, it will be all for naught

[Blake]

Doesn't change my stance on don't like it don't move in.

Neat.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You want to talk about reading comprehension? :lol
From the post you JUST quoted:


Thanks for confirming what I already stated though, next time maybe you'll comprehend better next time. Your dislike for me has once again gotten the best of you.

I'm still waiting for data showing it is nearly impossible to buy a home without HOA as it seems 80% of homeowners did so.

You keep citing numbers for all homes when I am talking about new homes. Thus my having to repeat it over and again. I just looked up the total number of homes and its closer to 30%.

And again the critical thinking is poor on your part. If I want to buy a new home ie architect my own floor plan and have it brand spanking new then my options are going to be dramatically curtailed. So what at that point? I have to buy a used home? What about moving forward. If everything from this point on is HOA what do you think that protends for that percentage moving forward?

I have no respect for you and think you are not very intelligent. That is not 'getting the best of me.' That is me just seeing you for what you are.

[Koolaid_Man]

I throw my dog shit on the HOA pres lawn

[spursncowboys]

If people want to incorporate by their own volition that is one thing. What I have issue is how developers are allowed to shove them down homeowners' throats. It is becoming more and more difficult to find a new home for sale that does not have a HOA prepackaged with it by the developers.
100% agree

[pgardn]

I throw my dog shit on the HOA pres lawn

This, is good.
I got a hurtful gut laugh.

[Wild Cobra]

Problem is that most homeowners are too ignorant or apathetic to demand change.

Or they actually like the HOA being a bully.

There are both pros and cons to HOA's. I doubt I would ever find one I would buy into, but yes, some homeowners actually like the regulations of the community.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I throw my dog shit on the HOA pres lawn

Typically in someones front yard there is a cleanout. The large bore PVC. It is what leads to the sewer and is used to clear out back end backups. Fill that up with sand.

[Wild Cobra]

Again, most(more than 80%) NEW housing developments are using a HOA format.

This is what I get at when I talk about reading comprehension and critical thinking. You show poor skills in those regards.

So what's wrong with the other 20%?

They are still available, right?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So what's wrong with the other 20%?

They are still available, right?

It dramatically reduces consumer choice. As noted in the OP HOA are not popular. That is the issue.

[boutons_deux]

So what's wrong with the other 20%?

They are still available, right?

in which school districts (yep, many public schools with unionized teachers are excellent, a question of school financing)? how long to commute to work, shopping?

HOA is a local-monopoly business like any other, sucking $B out of homeowners, maximizing revenue and HOA staff salaries.

[Wild Cobra]

It dramatically reduces consumer choice. As noted in the OP HOA are not popular. That is the issue.

Don't cry.

[Wild Cobra]

in which school districts (yep, many public schools with unionized teachers are excellent, a question of school financing)? how long to commute to work, shopping?

HOA is a local-monopoly business like any other, sucking $B out of homeowners, maximizing revenue and HOA staff salaries.

Yet they survive because they can sell their product to home buyers. You want to change things, fine. Get like minded individuals together and create a nonprofit organization to lobby against the practices you deem wrong. Just keep in mind, some people with enough income choose such places to stay away from the riff-raff, like 90% or more of the people who visit this forum.

[pgardn]

Typically in someones front yard there is a cleanout. The large bore PVC. It is what leads to the sewer and is used to clear out back end backups. Fill that up with sand.

Thats evil.

Rock salt on the front lawn.

[Wild Cobra]

Typically in someones front yard there is a cleanout. The large bore PVC. It is what leads to the sewer and is used to clear out back end backups. Fill that up with sand.
People like you belong in jail.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

People like you belong in jail.

Why's that? Because I know how to vandalize like a pro?

You just wait until I get your address.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don't cry.

I'm not crying. I am just saying that it is better policy to not force american citizens to assemble against their will. You know the whole democracy thing?

I get that if you have public pools or the like then you need to incorporate to some degree but absent some mutual liability they should not force feed that shit down our throats.

[TSA]

I'm not crying. I am just saying that it is better policy to not force american citizens to assemble against their will. You know the whole democracy thing?

I get that if you have public pools or the like then you need to incorporate to some degree but absent some mutual liability they should not force feed that shit down our throats.

No one is being forced to move into HOA neighborhoods.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No one is being forced to move into HOA neighborhoods.

They are just eliminating the alternative which amounts to the same thing in the end. Of all houses only 30% are HOA. Of new homes it is over 80%. That is monopolizing the market. Sorry that you fail to understand the circumstance relative to other markets. Additionally as time goes by you see evidence like the OP that indicates that HOAs are unpopular.

I'm not surprised that you are not able to understand but if you again repeat your drivel I will just ignore it. Anyone else who reads what I am writing can get what I mean even if you cannot.

[TSA]

it is becoming nigh impossible to find a neighborhood developed without it

20% of all new homes are available with no HOA, hardly impossible to find one, but continue to ignore my drivel.

[Koolaid_Man]

Typically in someones front yard there is a cleanout. The large bore PVC. It is what leads to the sewer and is used to clear out back end backups. Fill that up with sand.

throwing dog shit is quick and easy...gotta watch out for cameras and do it at night when you have on a disguise

[pgardn]

throwing dog shit is quick and easy...gotta watch out for cameras and do it at night when you have on a disguise

So being in disguise as well as under the cover of darkness in order to distribute dog shit...

Quite an operation.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not crying. I am just saying that it is better policy to not force american citizens to assemble against their will. You know the whole democracy thing?

they aren't forced to assemble against their will. They can find another place if they aren't willing to abide by the rules and pay for the privilege of living there.

I don't particularly like it either, but that's what it amounts to.


I get that if you have public pools or the like then you need to incorporate to some degree but absent some mutual liability they should not force feed that shit down our throats.
Then they can buy elsewhere.

[Wild Cobra]

Why's that? Because I know how to vandalize like a pro?

You just wait until I get your address.
My 16 channel DVR security system is watching...

[Wild Cobra]

They are just eliminating the alternative which amounts to the same thing in the end. Of all houses only 30% are HOA. Of new homes it is over 80%. That is monopolizing the market. Sorry that you fail to understand the circumstance relative to other markets. Additionally as time goes by you see evidence like the OP that indicates that HOAs are unpopular.

I'm not surprised that you are not able to understand but if you again repeat your drivel I will just ignore it. Anyone else who reads what I am writing can get what I mean even if you cannot.
have you ever put up with owing property, just to have your neighbor devalue the entire block because of their habits?

New places wouldn't be mostly HOA type places if that's wasn't what most people wanted.

[boutons_deux]

new places wouldn't be mostly HOA type places if that's wasn't what most people wanted.

homeowners don't create HOA. The developers/HOA businesses create them as revenue streams and force them on owners.

San Antonio has "code compliance" roaming employees who cite violations. I got one for a clump of weeds more than 12" high. The guy across the street got one for parking his van on the grass. No HOA in my neighborhood.

[Wild Cobra]

If the owners didn't want them, they can still buy elsewhere.

A majority of these owners do want them, to keep the minority from devaluing the area. If a majority of the owners didn't, they could at least make rule changes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My 16 channel DVR security system is watching...

I'll just case your joint for when your not there and then disguise myself. If I want after your stuff there is little you would be able to do to stop me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

have you ever put up with owing property, just to have your neighbor devalue the entire block because of their habits?

New places wouldn't be mostly HOA type places if that's wasn't what most people wanted.

As boutox pointed out the municipal authorities can code for such things and enforce them. You know the democratic entity that you live in?

And as has been pointed out, the developer gets money independent of the HO from the formation of a HOA.

And does your dumbass really think that 80% of new homebuyers want a HOA? Nevermind that if they don't start with one they can create one if they so wish.

If you don't want to live in a HOA you are marginalized because 80% of new homes have them. Sorry you fail to grasp the significance of that. 4 out of 5 isn't a problem what about 9 out of 10 or 99 of 100? There is still a choice right?

[Blake]

have you ever put up with owing property, just to have your neighbor devalue the entire block because of their habits?

New places wouldn't be mostly HOA type places if that's wasn't what most people wanted.

I live in an HOA enforced community. The problems are the same with or without the HOA.

Many times, the HOA ends up referring the issue to the city for enforcement any way.

Since this HOA has no value for me, why should I have to pay for it for the rest of my life in this house?

[TSA]

I live in an HOA enforced community. The problems are the same with or without the HOA.

Many times, the HOA ends up referring the issue to the city for enforcement any way.

Since this HOA has no value for me, why should I have to pay for it for the rest of my life in this house?did you move in knowing there was HOA?

[Blake]

did you move in knowing there was HOA?

Yes.

You can post your false dilemma 100 times but it won't suddenly change on post 101.

[TSA]

Yes.

You can post your false dilemma 100 times but it won't suddenly change on post 101.

Did you know the HOA would have no value for you?

[Blake]

Did you know the HOA would have no value for you?

No.

[TSA]

No.

That sucks. I'm glad I don't have to deal with one. I know moving is a pain in the ass but what is keeping you there?

[Blake]

That sucks. I'm glad I don't have to deal with one. I know moving is a pain in the ass but what is keeping you there?

I'm in a great area and i like my house.

And if I did move in SA, there's practically no place on the nice sides of town that don't have one.

[TSA]

I'm in a great area and i like my house.

And if I did move in SA, there's practically no place on the nice sides of town that don't have one.

Gotcha.

And fuck HOA's. Next time avoid at all costs.

[Wild Cobra]

And does your dumbass really think that 80% of new homebuyers want a HOA? Nevermind that if they don't start with one they can create one if they so wish.

You are a real dumbass to assume such a thing. I would explain how you are wrong, but I don't think you have the IQ to understand.

For the rest of you who can understand simple concepts, if I have 4 out of 5 groups of voters wanting a HOA as a majority, then the 80% can be real. It doesn't mean 80% support it.

Group 1 51% to 49%
Group 2 48% to 46%, 6% no vote
Group 3 47% to 48%, 3% no vote
Group 4 52% to 46%, 2% no vote
Group 5 55% to 44%, 1% no vote.

Looks looks like only slightly half want the HOA, but 4 of 5 become reality.

Now Fuzzy...

Doesn't it seem reasonable if 80% of the people wanted HOA's that 100% of the places would become so?

[Wild Cobra]

I live in an HOA enforced community. The problems are the same with or without the HOA.

Many times, the HOA ends up referring the issue to the city for enforcement any way.

Since this HOA has no value for me, why should I have to pay for it for the rest of my life in this house?
They have no value for me either. That's why I don't live in one.

[TeyshaBlue]

I got that consulting gig.....bout to get an inside view of this stuff.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are a real dumbass to assume such a thing. I would explain how you are wrong, but I don't think you have the IQ to understand.

For the rest of you who can understand simple concepts, if I have 4 out of 5 groups of voters wanting a HOA as a majority, then the 80% can be real. It doesn't mean 80% support it.

Group 1 51% to 49%
Group 2 48% to 46%, 6% no vote
Group 3 47% to 48%, 3% no vote
Group 4 52% to 46%, 2% no vote
Group 5 55% to 44%, 1% no vote.

Looks looks like only slightly half want the HOA, but 4 of 5 become reality.

Now Fuzzy...

Doesn't it seem reasonable if 80% of the people wanted HOA's that 100% of the places would become so?

1) Making up numbers is fun!
2) The people do not vote on the incorporation of these new HOA.

Die in a fire, dumbass.

[Blake]

I got that consulting gig.....bout to get an inside view of this stuff.

Sweet. You'll have to share.

[Blake]

They have no value for me either. That's why I don't live in one.

I don't think I should have to pay for one if I don't want it.

[TeyshaBlue]

Sweet. You'll have to share.

Yup. Ill be working more in the areas of operational efficiencies....back office stuff, but I'm sure I'll get to stick my head in the lion's mouth a couple of times.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yup. Ill be working more in the areas of operational efficiencies....back office stuff, but I'm sure I'll get to stick my head in the lion's mouth a couple of times.

Hey TB, grats on the new position. Now go make me my money, bitch!

[TeyshaBlue]

Hey TB, grats on the new position. Now go make me my money, bitch!

Shup and go put on that purty dress I bought ya.

[TSA]

I don't think I should have to pay for one if I don't want it.

You don't have to.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You don't have to.

If you want to buy a new home then your options as a buyer are reduced to almost nothing especially if you want to buy anything that costs more than your average starter home.

[Blake]

You don't have to.

what is that? Five times with the false dilemma?

[TSA]

If you want to buy a new home then your options as a buyer are reduced to almost nothing especially if you want to buy anything that costs more than your average starter home.

20% is not almost nothing.

[TSA]

what is that? Five times with the false dilemma?

You chose to move into an HOA neighborhood.

[boutons_deux]

20% is not almost nothing.

in or out of HOA is not as simple as you think, simpleton. school district, grocery, shopping, work commute, church, etc, all figure in.

[TSA]

in or out of HOA is not as simple as you think, simpleton. school district, grocery, shopping, work commute, church, etc, all figure in.

Well of course. I just don't think finding a suitable home without HOA is as impossible as some here are making it to be.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well of course. I just don't think finding a suitable home without HOA is as impossible as some here are making it to be.

you know what a false dilemma is right?

[Wild Cobra]

in or out of HOA is not as simple as you think, simpleton. school district, grocery, shopping, work commute, church, etc, all figure in.
And you pay for those good areas that those communities are responsible.

Why are you guys trying to get subsidized by others?

[TeyshaBlue]

Anybody wanna translate WC?


Anybody?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you pay for those good areas that those communities are responsible.

Why are you guys trying to get subsidized by others?

So how do you feel about property taxes? You like those? You up for increases in your area?

Government is bad when its from the people but when Dave the Developer and Alice the head of the HOA temp offer only that it's just rosy.

gmfb

You are a wonderful corporate minion for all of your claims of a libertarian lean.

This is the thing. If a developer wants to build a pool or running trails then it makes sense for communal action to share liability. OTOH when you have square mile after square mile of tract housing with premade HOAs tied to the deed then I cannot see how a 'libertarian' would be cool with that.

[Wild Cobra]

Those local schools and infrastructure are formed by the quality of people in the area. Those with "I want" attitudes don't deserve what they don't help build.

[TeyshaBlue]

WC, that statement literally makes no sense.

New communities are planned before the first foundation is laid.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, that statement literally makes no sense.

New communities are planned before the first foundation is laid.
And the riff raff is just going to bring down the quality of everything. How civilized are those kids of yours you want to put in those good schools that will be established?

Excuse me if I have a rather low opinion of the chronic complainers in these forums, but I do.

[TeyshaBlue]

lol...and you are the arbiter of riff raff.

What a small man you've become.

[Wild Cobra]

lol...and you are the arbiter of riff raff.

What a small man you've become.

No, just having fun torquing idiots here. I don't really consider you one of the idiots, but you do tend to hang with people who are obvious scumbags here.

[Blake]

You chose to move into an HOA neighborhood.

Six. Nice.

[TSA]

Let's sum it all up and go for 7.

You don't like HOA's.
You see no value in HOA's.
You don't think you should pay for HOA's.
You move into a HOA.

[Blake]

And the riff raff is just going to bring down the quality of everything. How civilized are those kids of yours you want to put in those good schools that will be established?

Excuse me if I have a rather low opinion of the chronic complainers in these forums, but I do.


Did I ever tell you how high my opinion is of your stalking ability?

Creepy yet impressive, imo.

[Blake]

Let's sum it all up and go for 7.

You don't like HOA's.
You see no value in HOA's.
You don't think you should pay for HOA's.
You move into a HOA.

Neat.

[ErnestLynch]

I've lived in my house for nearly 15 years and have been on the board at times. We had a board that made mistakes and sent collections to attorneys that put thousands of legal fees on the bill for the delinquent home owner. We don't do that anymore. We don't send letters out, don't hassle home owners unless they're really screwing up. For parking violations and such, we just call the Bexar Co Sheriff to pay them a visit and tell them to clean it up or stop doing what they're doing. Far more effective than us sending them a letter. Basically, if it isn't against some county code violation, we don't mess with it and just leave people alone. We've even stopped messing with people over their lawns. It has to be reaaaally bad to get a letter. For the homes that aren't occupied and owned by a rentor or a bank, we just started having the people that mow the common grounds mow it, and send the owner/bank a bill telling them if they don't pay it we'll send it to the attorney's and it will cost them 200 x that and they always pay it.

We have it down to an art. We don't mess with anyone unless they're really messing up and generally, when they are, there's some sort of ordinance they're breaking so we just let the cops handle it. And it works.


And if you want to do something that violates the covenant, we tell 'em that if it's ok with your neighbors it's ok but if they sell and you get a new neighbor that doesn't like it, you'll have to comply. YOUR risk.

For past due fees, after it hits $500 we file a lien. When they sell they owe the $ plus interest. Out of 500+ homeowners, 12 are delinquent on their dues.


But man, let me tell you, we made some heartbreaking mistakes early on that cost people BIG and we swore we'd never do that again. The association is suppose to be on YOUR side.

[Blake]

I've lived in my house for nearly 15 years and have been on the board at times. We had a board that made mistakes and sent collections to attorneys that put thousands of legal fees on the bill for the delinquent home owner. We don't do that anymore. We don't send letters out, don't hassle home owners unless they're really screwing up. For parking violations and such, we just call the Bexar Co Sheriff to pay them a visit and tell them to clean it up or stop doing what they're doing. Far more effective than us sending them a letter. Basically, if it isn't against some county code violation, we don't mess with it and just leave people alone. We've even stopped messing with people over their lawns. It has to be reaaaally bad to get a letter. For the homes that aren't occupied and owned by a rentor or a bank, we just started having the people that mow the common grounds mow it, and send the owner/bank a bill telling them if they don't pay it we'll send it to the attorney's and it will cost them 200 x that and they always pay it.

We have it down to an art. We don't mess with anyone unless they're really messing up and generally, when they are, there's some sort of ordinance they're breaking so we just let the cops handle it. And it works.


And if you want to do something that violates the covenant, we tell 'em that if it's ok with your neighbors it's ok but if they sell and you get a new neighbor that doesn't like it, you'll have to comply. YOUR risk.

For past due fees, after it hits $500 we file a lien. When they sell they owe the $ plus interest. Out of 500+ homeowners, 12 are delinquent on their dues.


But man, let me tell you, we made some heartbreaking mistakes early on that cost people BIG and we swore we'd never do that again. The association is suppose to be on YOUR side.

I've heard plenty of similar stories.

And I can move into your neighborhood, sold on your notion that your HOA has it all figured out, only to have a new board come in and ruin things in a very short amount of time.

What then is my recourse?

[ErnestLynch]

There are about 8 of us that have it clamped down with enough proxies to control it as far as the eye can see. We bring new people in, educate them on how it's done and why, and the mistakes we made. If it goes bad, we have the votes to remove anyone, and we have done it. About 12 owners control it all by consent of the majority. We went through some BAD times, and learned from it. And we put policies in place for the management company about using attorneys. What happened is we had a bad management company. THAT's where it went bad. Once we got a good one, and learned how to control them and set guidelines for them, as in, don't send collections to attorneys' without the consent of the board. If you do, we'll sue YOU. It can be done right with no risk of a 'bad board'.

[Blake]

There are about 8 of us that have it clamped down with enough proxies to control it as far as the eye can see. We bring new people in, educate them on how it's done and why, and the mistakes we made. If it goes bad, we have the votes to remove anyone, and we have done it. About 12 owners control it all by consent of the majority. We went through some BAD times, and learned from it.

Sounds great, but can you 100% fully guarantee that it won't go to shit in the next 25 years?

[ErnestLynch]

I believe the association expires after 30 years. Either way, the answer is 'no'. I can't guarantee anything. No one can. I think we have about 14 years to go then the HOA dissolves. Which, BTW, presents it's own set of problems.

And with that said, new developments, with new owners, new boards, people that don't know each other...is dangerous. Eventually you have to learn to work together but there can be growing pains with that. Eventually, and we go to area meetings of HOA's, a few homeowners get control of it. WHO that is, is very important. My advice is, knock on some doors and ask questions. No one likes the HOA so ...you'll have to be precise. What do they do if you you're in violation of xyz ? Do they sic lawyers on the members ? etc etc....how much are the fees....what am I responsible for....get a copy of the convenents and drive around and see if there are exceptions. Talk to a board member, ask 'who runs the place'. There's always a group that has taken power and runs the joint. Always.

[Blake]

I believe the association expires after 30 years. Either way, the answer is 'no'. I can't guarantee anything. No one can. I think we have about 14 years to go then the HOA dissolves. Which, BTW, presents it's own set of problems.

why is it a problem if it dissolves?

[ErnestLynch]

Because of the common grounds that someone will have to care for. Although, in reality, those are owned by someone, they are just outside of fenced areas in our case. The question is, will they care for it, or will your neighborhood look like crap ? Often that's what neighborhoods look like with no association. Nice house ...nice house...crap house...nice house...etc etc.

HOA's are designed to protect property values. You do realize that don't you ?

[Blake]

Because of the common grounds that someone will have to care for. Although, in reality, those are owned by someone, they are just outside of fenced areas in our case. The question is, will they care for it, or will your neighborhood look like crap ? Often that's what neighborhoods look like with no association. Nice house ...nice house...crap house...nice house...etc etc.

HOA's are designed to protect property values. You do realize that don't you ?

City ordinances are also designed to do that as well. Code compliance is there to do that as well as boutons mentioned already.

You yourself said you defer problems to the county.

I think voluntary HOAs are great. I think the current laws regarding mandatory HOAs are horrible.

[ErnestLynch]

I agree but there's ways around that. My brother bought a house, in a nice neighborhood, that has no HOA and all is fine. I'd prefer to be in the country, and I will get there one day, where I can howel at the moon and shoot in any direction with no worry. One day.

And by default, all HOA's are voluntary. They all have an out with enough votes.

[Wild Cobra]

HOA's are designed to protect property values. You do realize that don't you ?

This is key.

If the majority of people who were in HOA controlled houses didn't want those enforced standards, there would be an exodus of selling, and prices will drop. Rarely see that happen now...

Once again. HOA's keep the Riff Raff like Fuzzy et. al. out, or at least controlled.

[Blake]

This is key.

If the majority of people who were in HOA controlled houses didn't want those enforced standards, there would be an exodus of selling, and prices will drop. Rarely see that happen now...

Once again. HOA's keep the Riff Raff like Fuzzy et. al. out, or at least controlled.

So does a city's code enforcement department

[Blake]

And by default, all HOA's are voluntary. They all have an out with enough votes.

Semantics.

A mandatory HOA is still mandatory for the individual property owner.

[DMC]

The positives outweigh the negatives. I'm 15 minutes from the beach, 1 hour from snow, and 1 hour from the desert.

I'm two hours from the mountains, 30 minutes from the Gulf and two hours from the Atlantic ocean... if I fly.

[RandomGuy]

I agree but there's ways around that. My brother bought a house, in a nice neighborhood, that has no HOA and all is fine. I'd prefer to be in the country, and I will get there one day, where I can howel at the moon and shoot in any direction with no worry. One day.

And by default, all HOA's are voluntary. They all have an out with enough votes.

If you can get someone to show up TO vote.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is key.

If the majority of people who were in HOA controlled houses didn't want those enforced standards, there would be an exodus of selling, and prices will drop. Rarely see that happen now...

Once again. HOA's keep the Riff Raff like Fuzzy et. al. out, or at least controlled.

I'd say this was a cool story but it's not. How on Earth do you get off speaking for anyone else? It's bad enough that you are stupid but when you double down with bullshit it is that much worse.

[Wild Cobra]

How on Earth do you get off speaking for anyone else?
You're the expert at such things. You don't know?

[pgardn]

I just pay voluntary fees and the people in charge do attempt to keep things nice. They send accounting figures out to everyone, even if they do not volunteer payment and don't have to "join". The HOA members who keep everyone informed have the time I guess. If our small neighborhood gets graffiti, I usually take care of it quickly with many thanks. My small part, does not happen often.

Just like any sort of authority intended to do good, things can get out of hand. Bigger neighborhoods seem to have more of a problem in my experience. And clearly some of these folks mentioned in the more bizarre cases have an authority problem.

We also have a cop associated with our neighborhood. He stops by the neighborhood picnics to say hello. HOAs do not by there very nature, have to be bad. They are small week "governments" . Surprising to see WC arguing for them. I thought it was everyman for himself...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're the expert at such things. You don't know?

I make it a point to not talk for others. When I feel that I do I qualify it as such. Do you ever stop making shit up?

[Bill_Brasky]

i think HOAs are a decent concept. you want to have rules and regs as far as property upkeep so you don't have slobs move into your nice neighborhood, not take care of shit, and drive everyones property value down.

otoh, as far as these places like sun city go, it's just scary to me what those pieces of shit do as far as shaking down their own residents for money. shady shit tbh, they need to be checked.

[RandomGuy]

i think HOAs are a decent concept. you want to have rules and regs as far as property upkeep so you don't have slobs move into your nice neighborhood, not take care of shit, and drive everyones property value down.

otoh, as far as these places like sun city go, it's just scary to me what those pieces of shit do as far as shaking down their own residents for money. shady shit tbh, they need to be checked.

Decent concept, yeah, but in practice the laws have been written to benefit developers at the expense of homeowners. That is rife for abuse in practice.

[boutons_deux]

HOAs are for-profit operations is all I need to know.

[Blake]

HOAs are for-profit operations is all I need to know.

Yeah, that's a big problem.

[TeyshaBlue]

As I undetstand it thus far, there are some 501c non profit HOAs. However, most are FS 617, not for profit orgs which allow them to seek avenues of revenues external to fees. My brothrer's HOA owns a convenience store thats located at the entrance to his subdivision.

[leemajors]

As I undetstand it thus far, there are some 501c non profit HOAs. However, most are FS 617, not for profit orgs which allow them to seek avenues of revenues external to fees. My brothrer's HOA owns a convenience store thats located at the entrance to his subdivision.

cha-ching

[DMC]

i think HOAs are a decent concept. you want to have rules and regs as far as property upkeep so you don't have slobs move into your nice neighborhood, not take care of shit, and drive everyones property value down.

otoh, as far as these places like sun city go, it's just scary to me what those pieces of shit do as far as shaking down their own residents for money. shady shit tbh, they need to be checked.

I agree on part of that, but it's like the mob back in the day when they'd charge shop owners for protection. That's all it amounts to, and if you don't pay, you get a fine or you cannot live there.

I can see it in really affluent subdivisions where the grounds are well kept, but shithole neighborhoods with a facade for an entrance and a pool shared by 4 different subdivisions... that's a scam. I know a guy who lives in that scenario, and though the HOA is basically toothless, it costs him money and every summer the pool is full of people who don't live in the subdivision because there's no supervision. It's just welfare on a micro level.

[DMC]

This is key.

If the majority of people who were in HOA controlled houses didn't want those enforced standards, there would be an exodus of selling, and prices will drop. Rarely see that happen now...

Once again. HOA's keep the Riff Raff like Fuzzy et. al. out, or at least controlled.

So then, if the majority of people didn't like the traffic jams or high toll fees, they'd have an "exodus of selling" of their cars. That's not happened.

[boutons_deux]

Foreclosures by Homeowners’ Associations Rising as Their Financial Condition Worsens (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/01/foreclosures-homeowners-associations-rising-financial-condition-worsens.html)They aren’t just a way to pay for common services in multi-family housing; they are increasingly an example of privatization of formerly public services. As a new Reuters story explains (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/08/us-homeowners-association-insight-idUSBREA0706N20140108):

Homeowner associations first took off in the 1970s as local governments looked for a way to offload costly services, such as snow removal and road repair. Municipalities have encouraged their growth since through tax incentives and zoning laws…

But people who buy houses in an association often don’t bother to read the agreements that spell out what covenants owners are obliged to observe. They may unknowingly forfeit the right to fly a flag in the front yard, let a shrub grow any old size, or allow their kids to shoot hoops in the driveway. Homeowner associations typically have the right to place liens against wayward residents. Either through a court or state-regulated process, they can then foreclose on houses worth hundreds of thousands of dollars even for a few hundred dollars of unpaid debt, much like a municipality can for unpaid property taxes or a bank for a few missed mortgage payments.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/01/foreclosures-homeowners-associations-rising-financial-condition-worsens.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capi talism%29