Stone-tipped spears predate existence of humans by 85,000 years

[tlongII]

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/11/14/stone-tipped-spears-predate-existence-humans-by-85000-years/?intcmp=features

Remains of the world’s oldest known stone-tipped throwing spears, described in a new paper, and so ancient that they actually predate the earliest known fossils for our species by 85,000 years.

There are a few possible implications, and both are mind-blowing. The first is that our species could be much older than previously thought, which would forever change the existing human family tree.

The second, and more likely at this point, is that a predecessor species to ours was extremely crafty and clever, making sophisticated tools long before Homo sapiens emerged.

Homo heidelbergensis, aka Heidelberg Man, lived in Africa, Europe and western Asia from at least 600,000 years ago. He clearly got around, and many think this species was the direct ancestor ofHomo sapiens in Africa and Neanderthals in Europe and Asia.

The new paper, published in the latest PLoS ONE, focuses on the newly identified stone-tipped spears, which date to 280,000 years ago. They were found at an Ethiopian Stone Age site known as Gademotta.

Sahle, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California at Berkeley’s Human Evolution Research Center, and his team analyzed the weapons. They determined that the spears were made from obsidian found near the site. The toolmakers had to craft the pointy spearhead shapes and spear shafts. They then needed to attach the points securely to the shafts. Even today, all of this would require skill, concentration and multiple steps.

Could a Steve Jobs-like innovator within the Heidelberg Man set have come up with this useful tool and production process?

Possibly, according to Sahle.

“Technological advances were not necessarily associated with anatomical changes (among Homo species),” he said. “The advances might have started earlier.”

The intelligence needed to create such tools could therefore have predated our present body type. Based on the recreations I’ve seen of Heidelberg Man (and Heidelberg Woman), they did look very much like us. They were known to have been fairly tall and muscular.

As for why innovative tools from this period are known only from this site in Ethiopia, Sahle has some ideas.

“High-quality raw materials were nearby, so those could have allowed for the full expression of technological skills,” he said.

“Second, a bigger population was supported at the site,” he continued. With more individuals around, there would have been a greater chance for the spread of innovative ideas. If there was indeed a Steve Jobs-type in the mix, he would have been able to influence more individuals and perhaps even created a prehistoric spear-making assembly line of sorts.

“Thirdly, there was a mega lake at the site,” Sahle said. “It might have attracted stable occupations there, further fueling technological advances.”

It’s not clear yet what the prehistoric ancestral humans were hunting with the spears. A mishmash of animal remains was found, but the researchers haven’t been able to tease them apart yet.

What is clear is that the spears were thrown from a distance at prey, instead of thrust into victims, Neanderthal-style.

[The Reckoning]

homo erectus discovered fire. chimps use tools all the time. it's really not mind boggling.

what would be cool is if they had some sort of counterweight at the end of the shaft. that would show the species had some sort of idea of physics.

[baseline bum]

“Second, a bigger population was supported at the site,” he continued. With more individuals around, there would have been a greater chance for the spread of innovative ideas. If there was indeed an Alan Kay-type in the mix, he would have been able to influence more individuals and perhaps even created a prehistoric spear-making assembly line of sorts.

fify

[I. Hustle]

homo erectus discovered fire. chimps use tools all the time. it's really not mind boggling.


homo likesanus works as a prison guards so....

[Lincoln]

So this just proves that n!ggers were
Spearchuckers right?

[Holden_Caulfield]

how are they not much better at quarterbacking, tbh. 85000 years of pinpoint accuracy should easily translate right?

[Wild Cobra]

Sorry, but when we talk about millions of years, 85k years is well within any error band.

[TDMVPDPOY]

but the planet is only 6000 yrs old...something doesnt measure up, scientists should stop throwing out random numbers

[mouse]

Actually they have found spear tips in Mexico that are even older. The following documentary I am about to post may be to long for many in here with short attention spans.

Some of you may be to busy to watch it all or just don't have an hour and 25 minutes to kill.

In that case I will advise you to start watching from the 4300 mark. I used YTD YouTube down loader so I didn't have to see all the annoying advertisements. The following documentary is really sad as it exposes the corruption and cover ups in the Scientific community. That is why i can only get so frustrated with TLongII for he is just another victim of bad information. one of my favorite parts of the film is around the 5800 mark. A scientist claims that the diatoms found in the strata were the spear tips were located had been washed there from an older layer of sediment and therefore the spear tips were not as old as they claimed. But another scientist sitting right next to him says if that was the case then they should have a "mixture" of both type of diatoms at that layer. But none were found. You can see the frustration on the other mans face as he says well I'm not going to get into diatoms as to just brush off the evidence.

Why is this discovery so important? Because when the bones found in the same layer as the spear heads came back as over 250,000-400,000 years old. It had many of the museums and scientists scrambling for explanations that would have rewritten the textbooks. They even mention the finds in Africa and say theirs were noted as being legit but not the finds in Mexico.
Why? because they can deal with 85,000 years not 250,00 years.

As the video comes close to the end they uncover the conspiracy surrounding the scientific community and find out the Science today is not really after the truth about mankind.

1:20 mark of the film you will hear a man drop a major truth bomb about science and what he could not believe what another scientist told him. Very sad ending but eye opening for those of you that believe everything you read in school text books.


koYWznEIV50

[Wild Cobra]

Who cares. These could have been pre made items found by others who later migrated. Besides, I would really like to know how they have any accurate dating methods for such items.

[mouse]

Who cares.


Educated people do.

Are you addressing TLongII or myself?


(in case your addressing me)


These could have been pre made items found by others who later migrated.


Are you really this ignorant or are you just baiting the TRoll regulators to use your crusty ass for a penis pinata?


You used to have some incites and semi debate skills now your just a washed up wannabee Chump Dumper.

If you did any research you would know it's not just about finding a few arrowheads in the dirt.



Besides, I would really like to know how they have any accurate dating methods for such items.


I'm not even going to answer that question , if you don't know about dating fossils,bones,and sediment then your in the wrong topic, don't you still have Google? After all the other debates about age of earth and Evolution and "now" you ask how it's done? You know this is one time you should pull out the Wild Cobra #2 in the government cubicle card... at least I will know there's hope for Wild Cobra #3


Watch the video it's not about finding bones and pottery it's about the world being lied to for decades by Science and the despicable ways they cover it up. I'm sure if someone found out Marvel Comics lied to us all these years and Spider man was really a woman you'd be all over it.

At least now others know what I meant when I said...



The following documentary I am about to post may be to long for many in here with short attention spans.


And on a side note: Some of the arrowheads were found still inside the skulls of prehistoric Mammoths that were thought to be long gone before man showed up.

Now Science has to question it's dating methods or rewrite all the text books, or both.

[Wild Cobra]

Educated people do.

Are you addressing TLongII or myself?

You, and anyone else who doesn't understand the significance of what I said in post #7.

Do you have a concept of what it takes to place a date on a carved piece of rock?

[Wild Cobra]

It looks like you are changing the conversation as I understood it. What does this mean to you:


Remains of the world’s oldest known stone-tipped throwing spears, described in a new paper, and so ancient that they actually predate the earliest known fossils for our species by 85,000 years.

I accordingly responded that 85k is within the error range of millions.

Now you appear to change the subject to North America. I have no problems with the idea man existed here before other evidence we have.

This is not the same thing!

[mouse]

You, and anyone else who doesn't understand the significance of what I said in post #7.

Do you have a concept of what it takes to place a date on a carved piece of rock?

There are many ways to date rocks,bones,and fossils. But keep in mind I don't support any of them.

That is why I was excited about the documentary when the dates came back as 250,000 it exposed the many fruads and dating errors science doesn't want you to know about.

If they say the findings are true? then Science was wrong about when man roamed north America.

If they say the findings are false? then Science exposes Carbon dating to be flawed, either way their screwed.

So what do they do? They report to the newspapers that they are planting the arrowheads in the dirt. Then they confiscated all the artifacts and hide them away. It is no secret every time a Museum curatorial or a professor in a collage tries to present new evidence they lose their jobs. The Museum curatorial at the Smithsonian was fired when he tried to place a fossil that had a dinosaur footprint on a human footprint.

The professor who found Thermite in the WTC dust was fired from his collage. The scientist that found Monsanto GMO corn gave rats cancer tumors was fired after 30 years at Berkley.

This film is about Scientific coverups when it comes to new evidence of man,fossils, and Prehistoric creatures.


And if you don't have 10 minutes to watch any of the film don't waste my time with your re fried questions I have answered in the many debate topics you participated in. (provided your the same WildCobra)

[DJR210]

but the planet is only 6000 yrs old...something doesnt measure up, scientists should stop throwing out random numbers

LMAO.

[mouse]

I accordingly responded that 85k is within the error range of millions.
!

Yes if we are talking about the first humans on earth this is about the first humans found in north America.

I for one know you can't have bones survive more than 200,000 years in the condition you see them today, you can't have it both ways and say the reason we know how old fossils are by what layer of earth they are found and then say the reason we know how old each layer is by the fossils we find. But people eat that shit up everyday and its in the text books.

They actually want us to believe the pristine dinosaur bones they find lasted "Millions" of years in layers of rock that dates back only 1000s of years, who writes this crap? That is why finding those man made tools inside a prehistoric creature had to be silenced ASAP.

A scientist claims she found "tissue" in a dinosaur bone? Scientists have already stated in may text books tissue matter cant survive over a millions of years no matter what scenario or condition its found in.....and now they want to all of a sudden move the goal posts?
It's just a matter of time when all of this Billion of years Bullshit blows up in their faces and they will all deny they supported Darwin and the many Scientists that lied to their ignorant followers.

4:40 mark Truth bomb
ynXwAo9V_pY

[Wild Cobra]

There are many ways to date rocks,bones,and fossils. But keep in mind I don't support any of them.

That is why I was excited about the documentary when the dates came back as 250,000 it exposed the many fruads and dating errors science doesn't want you to know about.

You may have actually found a worthwhile documentary. I think it's ridiculous to think man wasn't all over the world that long ago. 250k years was a warming period, and maybe only a few made it to the Americas. The number of items that survive to be found over such long times are very few.



If they say the findings are true? then Science was wrong about when man roamed north America.

Fine, but that's not how I read the OP.



If they say the findings are false? then Science exposes Carbon dating to be flawed, either way their screwed.

Carbon dating doesn't work with any reliability past about 50k years. The error increases as time goes by.



So what do they do? They report to the newspapers that they are planting the arrowheads in the dirt. Then they confiscated all the artifacts and hide them away. It is no secret every time a Museum curatorial or a professor in a collage tries to present new evidence they lose their jobs. The Museum curatorial at the Smithsonian was fired when he tried to place a fossil that had a dinosaur footprint on a human footprint.

One incident in South America isn't necessarily the norm.



The professor who found Thermite in the WTC dust was fired from his collage. The scientist that found Monsanto GMO corn gave rats cancer tumors was fired after 30 years at Berkley.

Rightfully so, because it wasn't any more than iron oxide and aluminum that they found in the mix. The other contaminants were what you would find in the building, and not the other agents found in termite.

Yes, there could have been a thermitic reaction. However, it doesn't take thermite to do that!



This film is about Scientific coverups when it comes to new evidence of man,fossils, and Prehistoric creatures.

I started before the points you indicated and watched longer than needed. Looks like a good one. they seemed fair about things.



And if you don't have 10 minutes to watch any of the film don't waste my time with your re fried questions I have answered in the many debate topics you participated in. (provided your the same WildCobra)
You don't get it.

I was disagreeing with the assertion in the OP.

[QUOTE=mouse]

[mouse]

You may have actually found a worthwhile documentary.


Funny how some of the simplest and low budget films can be much more informative and entertaining than some of the high production films.



I think it's ridiculous to think man wasn't all over the world that long ago. 250k years was a warming period, and maybe only a few made it to the Americas. The number of items that survive to be found over such long times are very few.

Well we do know one thing, if someone "lies" to you it's kinda hard to trust them a second time. Well science and the school texts books lie 100s of times a day for 100s of years dating back to the 1800s with Origin of species. And before the new comers chime in with the old outdated re-fried Bible Thumper smack I don't support the bible and I feel there are some twisted truths in any books written by mankind.

So what do we have? We have 1000s of man made cities, villages, and tools buried under different layers of earth. We do know they have been there at a minimum of 10,000 years since there are known scrolls and writings that have been dated back 6,000 years and in some cases up to 9,000 years or more depending on what country you visit. For argument sake lets say man has been around for 50,000 years.

If you go any deeper you run into problems. And the reason I say 50,000 is so there is no bias in me trying to push any agendas. I just feel if man was around longer than that it shouldn't have taken him 40,000 years to figure out how to scribble something on paper or a cave.

Since we know how rapidly the earth can erode and and how earths resources are being exhausted going back any further and you run into issues like Carbon dating, and core reefs,rivers,trees and so on that should be millions of years old. The texts books love to toss out huge numbers not even backing any of them up.

Oldest tree 20-40 thousand years old, Oldest coral reef 5-50 thousand years old and so on.

So if you use 50,000 years as a ground zero you will find many other theories start to take shape and make sense.

The problem is people and Scientists are afraid to admit the solar system and the earth is not "Billions" of years old for the fear of the Evil Creationist and their Bible thumping army.

Just think if Scientists could drop the Bible hate and the Creationists could drop the Darwin hate and everyone working together on this mystery of where man came from and when, we could have advance long ago and may be close to real answers.



Fine, but that's not how I read the OP.

Happens to me all the time that is why I try and not rush into my opinions so fast but its a hard habit to drop.



Carbon dating doesn't work with any reliability past about 50k years. The error increases as time goes by.

Then why do the text books say thanks to carbon dating scientist know dinosaurs and the fossils are "millions" of years old.



One incident in South America isn't necessarily the norm.

But if you catch a Creationist trying to cheat and bust him making fake fossils the Science community will never say "One incident in North America isn't necessarily the norm."



Rightfully so, because it wasn't any more than iron oxide and aluminum that they found in the mix. The other contaminants were what you would find in the building, and not the other agents found in termite.

Yes, there could have been a thermitic reaction. However, it doesn't take thermite to do that!

Unfortunately the ones with the power to change the science books or reexamine the evidence don't care.

That is why on any given week there will always be a show on cable called Where did we come from"

"early man and how we came to be" "life according to Science" "Are we alone?" "Could evolution be present in other galaxies?" "the birth of a Star" "what life was like 25 million years ago"

"The life of a Dinosaur" and they go on and on......every week, and in the classrooms everyday each show making sure in the first 30 seconds saying."25 Million years ago" or "4.6 Billion years ago"

It's like brainwashing. and that goes for other religions also.





I started before the points you indicated and watched longer than needed. Looks like a good one. they seemed fair about things.

Like most documentaries that are really seeking answers. I'm sure a debunking video is in the making as we speak.



You don't get it.

I was disagreeing with the assertion in the OP.

I do now.


iGDrq8rikJc

[lefty]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5661165056/h17C3F563/

[lefty]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/im+not+saying+it+was+aliens.+but_20c1f4_3147903.jp g

[Suspect]

so pre sumerian time?

[AussieFanKurt]

fuck sake, now opening up thread to creationist idiots

[mouse]

fuck sake, now opening up thread to creationist idiots


Isn't there a "trade Manu now" topic you could be posting in at the Spurs forum. Your immature comments are never needed in other forums.

On a Side note who here claimed to be a "Creationist?"

An "Idiot" did? And even if a creationist was to post in here who are you to insult others.

I know the Spurs aren't playing right now may I recommend to kill time you update your MySpace page.

[AussieFanKurt]

Happy to insult creationists tbh