We should have signed Monte over Manu

[Spanklin]

15.1 PER, he gone fishin already. Richard Jefferson 2.0 for 3 more years?

[ElNono]

Bargain, tbh... most entertaining bench in the NBA...

Hope he has 2-3 more years after this contract is due...

[Diego20]

No thanks

[timmy2003]

No. Monte is a volumn shooter.

[Johnny RIngo]

No. Monte is a volumn shooter.

Monta's averaging 23 ppg on 47%. Manu's at 10 ppg on 42%. I wouldn't throw the word "volume shooter" around so carelessly when Manu's shooting has been much, much worse.

[Johnny RIngo]

And yeah, any objective Spur fan knew Manu's recent contract was undeserved. He played at the level of a $4 mil/year player last year(massively overpaid considering he was making 14 mil) and he looks even worse this year. Sad thing is Ginobili hasn't even had his annual 30 game injury yet so expect much worse from him as the season progresses.

[PlayNando]

Stupid thread is stupid per par. Monte is an overrated hero chucker.

So what he's shooting 47% from the field now? We're barely 1/10th through the season. SMH!

[Johnny RIngo]

Stupid thread is stupid per par. Monte is an overrated hero chucker.

So what he's shooting 47% from the field now? We're barely 1/10th through the season. SMH!

Well, it tells us how disappointing Manu has been so far when we're comparing him to terrible players like Monta Ellis.

[PlayNando]

Well, it tells us how disappointing Manu has been so far when we're comparing him to terrible players like Monta Ellis.
:lol

[ElNono]

Manu's been great, tbh... integral part of the best bench in the NBA...

[Leetonidas]

People scoffing me for saying Monta Ellis is better than current Manu in the offseason :lol

[weebo]

the constant whining/bashing of Manu on this board by some of you dumb asses has gotten extremely boring

[ElNono]

to be fair, didn't monta walk away from like a +10m contract? I thought he was going to get paid more than he did.

[TheGoldStandard]

Eh, Manu hasn't done anything out of the ordinary. He's been standing pat

[cd021]

Monta's averaging 23 ppg on 47%. Manu's at 10 ppg on 42%. I wouldn't throw the word "volume shooter" around so carelessly when Manu's shooting has been much, much worse.

:lol Your're looking at 10 games as opposed to his career. Monta is the definition of a volume shooter. He's a ball dominant undersized 2-guard. Playing him and Parker together to end games would be a disaster. Ginobili's shooting won't be under 30% 3pt for the year. It will improve and he'll hit about a 3rd of them.

[cd021]

People scoffing me for saying Monta Ellis is better than current Manu in the offseason :lol

Comparing a player in his late 20's to a player in his mid 30's with plenty of extra millage because of playoffs and international competition. Its unfair to begin with. Ginobili still hold more value to the Spurs than Monte has on his previous teams (all of which were pretty bad, save for the 07' team in GSW)

[Johnny RIngo]

:lol Your're looking at 10 games as opposed to his career. Monta is the definition of a volume shooter. He's a ball dominant undersized 2-guard. Playing him and Parker together to end games would be a disaster. Ginobili's shooting won't be under 30% 3pt for the year. It will improve and he'll hit about a 3rd of them.

Never said I wanted Monta on this team tbqh. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of timmy2003's post. Doesn't really make sense to shit on Monta for his efficiency when Ginobili's been worse this season(especially from 3 point range).

[cd021]

And yeah, any objective Spur fan knew Manu's recent contract was undeserved. He played at the level of a $4 mil/year player last year(massively overpaid considering he was making 14 mil) and he looks even worse this year. Sad thing is Ginobili hasn't even had his annual 30 game injury yet so expect much worse from him as the season progresses.

He missed 30 games twice in 11 seasons. That seems to be clock work how? Just 3 seasons ago he averaged 30 mpg and played 85 games in the 10-11 season.:lol He was grossly underpayed in his prime. The Spurs knew that most player that they'd covet would be above the mid level or likely to go elsewhere. They payed Manu back for his loyalty and stayed safely under the luxury tax.

[Johnny RIngo]

He missed 30 games twice in 11 seasons.

lol @ pretending Manu isn't injury prone:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2013/01/12-13ManuInjuries.jpg

And that chart doesn't even include most of the games he missed last season.


That seems to be clock work how? Just 3 seasons ago he averaged 30 mpg and played 85 games in the 10-11 season.:lol

Yeah, and he burned out come playoff time.


He was grossly underpayed in his prime. The Spurs knew that most player that they'd covet would be above the mid level or likely to go elsewhere. They payed Manu back for his loyalty and stayed safely under the luxury tax.

The "Manu was underpayed" shit has to stop. Just because other players in this league have been grossly overpaid doesn't mean Manu should have been too. Spurs gave fair value to an injury-prone 2nd option/3rd option talent that likes to spend his off-seasons playing international ball.

[ElNono]

lol @ pretending Manu isn't injury prone:

And that chart doesn't even include most of the games he missed last season.

The chart lists all sorts of minor stuff and DNP-CDs... you could put together about the same stuff for every NBA player with 10+ seasons in the league... Manu had 2 major injuries: broken hand and the stress fracture. He played through the broken nose and broken arm in the playoffs.

He's not a physical freak like fetuses Kobe or HGH Wade. But all in all, missing 30 games twice in 11 seasons is pretty darn good, especially for a guy that was a human pinball machine back in the day.

[ElNono]

I guess if we had Monta we would be 9-1.... instead of 9-1...

[DAF86]

lol Monta is playing as good as he possibly can and he barely has a PER of 18.5. Just wait 'till the law of averages strike. Besides, if Monta would have got here, he would have been a bench player, it's safe to say he wouldn't have performed as well as he is doing right now on a reserve role. That added to the fact that Manu is a legend on SA and I say that no, the Spurs shouldn't have signed Monta over Manu.

[PlayNando]

One has to admit that Manu hasn't had any real severe injuries over the course of his career, at least. Considering all the injuries he's sustained, we're damned lucky he hasn't done something severe like tear an ACL or something.

[cd021]

lol @ pretending Manu isn't injury prone:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2013/01/12-13ManuInjuries.jpg

And that chart doesn't even include most of the games he missed last season.



Yeah, and he burned out come playoff time.



The "Manu was underpayed" shit has to stop. Just because other players in this league have been grossly overpaid doesn't mean Manu should have been too. Spurs gave fair value to an injury-prone 2nd option/3rd option talent that likes to spend his off-seasons playing international ball.

-You said he misses 30 games every year. He's missed 30 games twice.

-He lead our team in scoring that series, while playing with a broken arm against the best defensive wing in the NBA. So I guess he was burned out:lol.

-Parker has had his fair share of injuries as well. (Last season alone he missed a dozen games or was limited in games played ,with calf, back, sprained ankle, neck injuries etc.) calling out Manu for him have various injures over a long career is a bit unfair.

-Manu was under payed 6 years $54 million dollars (9 million a season) His average P.E.R in that stretch was 21. Parkers was 20 last season with a salary of $12.5 Million. We weren't going to use that money else where why not repay him for his loyalty and helping us maintain our success for the past decade.

[cd021]

One has to admit that Manu hasn't had any real severe injuries over the course of his career, at least. Considering all the injuries he's sustained, we're damned lucky he hasn't done something severe like tear an ACL or something.

This.

[Kidd K]

Harping on whether he's missed the benchmark o 30 games or not is irrelevant to the actual issue. Yes, that poster was wrong to claim 30 games was incredibly common, but he has missed 20+ games in 3 of the last 5 years. 30+ twice, That's kind of a lot.


2003: Misses 13 games
2004: Misses 5 games
2005: Misses 8 games
2006: Misses 17 games
2007: Misses 7 games
2008: Misses 8 games and is significantly injured in the postseason
2009: Misses 38 games and is injured for (misses) the entire postseason.
2010: Misses 7 games, but also plays hurt for the first half of the year. Not injured in postseason, plays well.
2011: Only misses 2 games and plays well all season, but breaks his elbow last day of the season and plays hurt in playoffs
2012: Misses 32 games in a season with only 66 in it and plays hurt for most of the year anyway
2013: Misses 22 games and plays hurt for most of the year. Drops the ball in the playoffs, slowly getting worse with each series then dropping off a cliff in the Finals. Injuries? Or just bad now? I don't even know.

So he's missed at least 20% of the season 4 times in 11 years due to injury. 3 times in the last 5 years. One of the two times he didn't, he got hurt right at the end of the season and we lost in the first round.

He missed a total of 159 of 886 possible games. Or 18% of the time. He missed 101 of 394 games the last 5 seasons (25.6% of them). He was also playing hurt or missed the playoffs 3 to 4 times (depending on whether you want to excuse his poor play last year on injuries) in 11 years (or 27-36%of the time), and all of that is within the last 6 years (50-67%).

I'm sorry, but that's a lot of missed time, and a very unreliable health record in the postseason the past half dozen years. No one denies this guy was a big part of at least our last two titles, but the guy is always injured lately and been incredibly unreliable to just be healthy in the postseason and put up average Ginobili games for us. The odds are high that he won't. He's always been noticably hobbled or significantly injured in any of the last 5-6 seasons.

Of course, we're stuck with him for another couple years now. . .so there's no point in talking about what we should've done instead. Just hope that he plays better, because if he shits the bed again we can't win a title due to not signing any other legitimate playmakers or replacement SGs.

[ElNono]

^ Silly stuff. When you take into account how many deep playoff runs we had those years (which the vast majority of NBA players don't go through), he more than made up for the 10 or so missed regular season games.

As a matter of fact, he's ranked #17 amongst all active players for total amount of games (http://bkref.com/tiny/be8Lc) played since 2002-2003.

He only played 46 less games than Dirk in his NBA career, even though Dirk entered the league 4 seasons earlier. Lots of miles on those legs.

[anakha]

Last night's game:

- Mavs down 3 with just over a minute left
- Ellis has the ball the entire possession and ends up missing a stepback 3
- Nowitzki never touched the ball the entire possession

That alone is enough for me to consider OP's entire argument inane and pointless.

[NickiRasgo]

One has to admit that Manu hasn't had any real severe injuries over the course of his career, at least. Considering all the injuries he's sustained, we're damned lucky he hasn't done something severe like tear an ACL or something.

Hi timvp. :toast

[james evans]

And yeah, any objective Spur fan knew Manu's recent contract was undeserved. He played at the level of a $4 mil/year player last year(massively overpaid considering he was making 14 mil) and he looks even worse this year. Sad thing is Ginobili hasn't even had his annual 30 game injury yet so expect much worse from him as the season progresses.
ESPECIALLY when he's coming off being the highest paid spur but played the worst out of anyone during the whole playoffs. don't know how anyone could fix their mouth to say he deserved that contract..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Monta's averaging 23 ppg on 47%. Manu's at 10 ppg on 42%. I wouldn't throw the word "volume shooter" around so carelessly when Manu's shooting has been much, much worse.

Do you not put assists, rebounds, and all around game in factor?

Ellis shoots way more = more shot opportunities. He averages less assists than Manu and Manu plays roughly half the time Monte does. Do you not want anyone else on the bench to score?

Fucking idiots man

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

ESPECIALLY when he's coming off being the highest paid spur but played the worst out of anyone during the whole playoffs. don't know how anyone could fix their mouth to say he deserved that contract..

My name is James Evans and the only reason I post is to talk about something that happened five months ago. I literally have nothing else to do with my life or to talk about on these forums.

I like to throw one of the best players in our history of the sport under the bus by having a gif made by TGY, and other jokes on these forums, yet I wonder why no one takes me serious.

[Spanklin]

Stupid thread is stupid per par. Monte is an overrated hero chucker.

So what he's shooting 47% from the field now? We're barely 1/10th through the season. SMH!
He's playing like an MVP dumbass. Do you even watch the NBA? You're just another manu apologist who can't handle that he's way over the hill.

[T Park]

I guess if we had Monta we would be 9-1.... instead of 9-1...


The spurs talk know it alls have to bitch about something.

[baseline bum]

Last night's game:

- Mavs down 3 with just over a minute left
- Ellis has the ball the entire possession and ends up missing a stepback 3
- Nowitzki never touched the ball the entire possession

That alone is enough for me to consider OP's entire argument inane and pointless.

To be fair though, how many times did Duncan touch the ball when Turnobili kept throwing it to LeBron?

[ElNono]

:pop: "Corporate knowledge"

[ElNono]

:lol

[ElNono]

At least I'm glad we didn't go for Josh Smith, like *some* people here whined about all summer (you know who you are)...

28 years old, also posting a 15.1 PER so far... talk about mailing it in :lol

[cjw]

He's playing like an MVP dumbass. Do you even watch the NBA? You're just another manu apologist who can't handle that he's way over the hill.

Those are not MVP numbers, and MVPs don't play on .500 teams. Better than expected, yes.

By your math, Kevin Martin and Evan Turner are MVP-worthy too (with Aaron Afflalo not far behind!).

[PlayNando]

He's playing like an MVP dumbass. Do you even watch the NBA? You're just another manu apologist who can't handle that he's way over the hill.

GTFO, scrub. We can talk about your hero chucker at the end if the season after he reveals himself. The wanker is useless. He does NOTHING except score.

Some STalkers are really dumb and can't see that there's more to being a good basketball player than scoring, so they overrate hero chuckers like Monte and Gary, per par.

[Skull-1]

Monta's averaging 23 ppg on 47%. Manu's at 10 ppg on 42%. I wouldn't throw the word "volume shooter" around so carelessly when Manu's shooting has been much, much worse.

Manu's shot looks terrible. He isn't right.

[Skull-1]

He's playing like an MVP dumbass. Do you even watch the NBA? You're just another manu apologist who can't handle that he's way over the hill.


Nandouche is an idiot. Per par.

[Skull-1]

My name is Low Lyfe Scum and the only reason I post is to divert attention away from what is happening NOW. I literally have nothing else to do with my life or to talk about on these forums except that Manu can do no wrong.

I like to blow one of the (formerly) best players in the history of the Spurs who now is completely washed up, and I do my best to distract people from that by lying and insulting those smarter than me, yet I wonder why no one takes me seriously.

I like to claim I ignore Skull-1 but I reference his remarks repeatedly.

I go to college.

Skull-1 is always correcting my poor grammar.

I go to college.


Fixed.

[PlayNando]

TGY/Skull-1/James Evans is an idiot. Per par.

Fixed.

[Skull-1]

I am a troll and a liar. I am stupid. Forgive me for being a douche.

Fixed.

[PlayNando]

Fk me.
Fixed

[letmk]

If we were going for the hypos, I would take Iguodala as the first choice.

[Spanklin]

I like to deflect all attention away from how shitty Manu was before we signed him for $30,000,000.00
The Church of Manu has spoken.

[Skull-1]

The Church of Manu has spoken.
:toast :rollin

[Spanklin]

If we were going for the hypos, I would take Iguodala as the first choice.
Yes, and paid Hickson $4,000,000.00 instead of Splitter's bloated ass. Of course recommended this prior to signings but the f.o. was too stupid to build a championship.

[letmk]

Yes, and paid Hickson $4,000,000.00 instead of Splitter's bloated ass. Of course recommended this prior to signings but the f.o. was too stupid to build a championship.

Hickson, en, I don't know. Considering the cost, it may make more sense to have him over Splitter. But Splitter's defense is crucial to the Spurs and is underrated at ST, tbh.

But Iguodala over Manu at this stage is a no-brainer. Last I checked, LeBron and Durant are still the top 2 players, and if we can have both Kawhi and Iguodala on court, it would be the best defense you can throw at them.

[james evans]

Hickson, en, I don't know. Considering the cost, it may make more sense to have him over Splitter. But Splitter's defense is crucial to the Spurs and is underrated at ST, tbh.

But Iguodala over Manu at this stage is a no-brainer. Last I checked, LeBron and Durant are still the top 2 players, and if we can have both Kawhi and Iguodala on court, it would be the best defense you can throw at them.
the spurs are the most loyal organization in teh history of sports. when they KNOW a player has nothing left and is playing shitty, they will not trade that mf.that's good AND bad thing because you can't find any organization that is loyal, but at the same time, if the mf has nothing to offer, give that money to someone that does..

[anakha]

To be fair though, how many times did Duncan touch the ball when Turnobili kept throwing it to LeBron?

Not that I'm defending Ginobili's Finals performance, but losing the ball trying to get it to a teammate is wildly different from Ellis's attempt to be the hero that game.

[exstatic]

Yes, and paid Hickson $4,000,000.00 instead of Splitter's bloated ass. Of course recommended this prior to signings but the f.o. was too stupid to build a championship.

Hickson literally CANNOT play defense. Splitter is in the top 3 of big men rim defense shot percentage.

[Baseline]

No. Monte is a volumn shooter. Monta's career shooting percentage is higher than K. Bryant's. Look it up. And help me remember...has Monta ever played alongside dominant offensive bigs like Shaquille, Pau, or Bynum? So you tell me...is Monta underrated, or is K. Bryant overrated?

[PlayNando]

The Church of Manu has spoken.
You are a joke.

And probably another TGY troll.

[Skull-1]

You are a joke.

And probably another TGY troll.


Says the man without ideas. Can't win on facts. May as well try misdirection. Clown.

[exstatic]

Monta's career shooting percentage is higher than K. Bryant's. Look it up. And help me remember...has Monta ever played alongside dominant offensive bigs like Shaquille, Pau, or Bynum? So you tell me...is Monta underrated, or is K. Bryant overrated?

:lol Comparing one chucker to another when their shooting percentages are 2/10ths of a percent apart.

[Diego20]

My name is James Evans and the only reason I post is to talk about something that happened five months ago. I literally have nothing else to do with my life or to talk about on these forums.

I like to throw one of the best players in our history of the sport under the bus by having a gif made by TGY, and other jokes on these forums, yet I wonder why no one takes me serious.

This. Manu haters are annoying.

[PlayNando]

Says the man without ideas. Can't win on facts. May as well try misdirection. Clown.
:lol

You KNOW you can't win a fact-based argument with me, so that's why you deflect and call me names like playnandouche. You are a real piece of work and a Fkn HYPOCRITE to boot. You are an AGENDA TROLL.

[TheCerebral1]

Monte doesn't care a lick on defense and while he is a scoring machine, he doesn't really play team ball. Pass.

[rascal]

Monte is more of an explosive scorer and is younger. Neither are good defensivly so that is a moot point and manu has become a liability with his turnovers.

[Matt194z]

Nah Monta worked perfectly into the dallas system with OJ leaving. Look at our shooting guard all he does is stand there and shoot threes.

[Skull-1]

:lol

You KNOW you can't win a fact-based argument with me, so that's why you deflect and call me names like playnandouche. You are a real piece of work and a Fkn HYPOCRITE to boot. You are an AGENDA TROLL.


I have kicked your sorry rear all over this board repeatedly. You're just an ignorant homer.

[PlayNando]

I have kicked your sorry rear all over this board repeatedly. You're just an ignorant homer.
:lol

Prove it. Oh, that's right, you can't

And there you go again with your Alinksy Tactics (I threw that in just for you! :lol) as you attack me and not my ideas.

[Skull-1]

:lol

Prove it. Oh, that's right, you can't

And there you go again with your Alinksy Tactics (I threw that in just for you! :lol) as you attack me and not my ideas.


You don't have ideas. You have a disease: homerism.

[PlayNando]

You don't have ideas. You have a disease: homerism.

There you go again with the name-calling. I'm a better man than that.

[TheGreatYacht]

:hangHe just dropped 37pts, 8ast on Houston while shooting 72%

WHY WHY WHY DID RC KEEP THE BALD IDIOT WHY?!?!
23.3ppg, 5.7apg, 1.6spg, 49.5%fg

[TMTTRIO]

Did we really need Manu to score? We have a lot of good scorers. Manu made his contribution tonight and you should know by now it's not all about scoring with him.

[tenbeersbold]

:hangHe just dropped 37pts, 8ast on Houston while shooting 72%

WHY WHY WHY DID RC KEEP THE BALD IDIOT WHY?!?!
23.3ppg, 5.7apg, 1.6spg, 49.5%fg

'Cause Monta cant sell seats to the "other" brown folks...

And Pop can't seem to tolerate black folk gettin' their game on outside the constraints of the system

Though he never seems to yank Ginobli when he's frequently stinkin' out there playin' outta the system.

Cutting Sjax was still the BIGGEST mistake of last season...he woulda given us more than McGrady LMFAO.....

[ElNono]

I thought Monta was having a great game until he tried that hero 3 pointer at the end with plenty of time on the clock and his team only up 2 or 3... Pop would probably tear him a new one :lol

[Skull-1]

'Cause Monta cant sell seats to the "other" brown folks...

And Pop can't seem to tolerate black folk gettin' their game on outside the constraints of the system

Though he never seems to yank Ginobli when he's frequently stinkin' out there playin' outta the system.

Cutting Sjax was still the BIGGEST mistake of last season...he woulda given us more than McGrady LMFAO.....


Ouch. He never yanks Manu when Manu is stinking up the joint, that is true, especially in the NBA Finals.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Cutting Sjax was still the BIGGEST mistake of last season...he woulda given us more than McGrady LMFAO.....

Sjax sucked, I mean really sucked last year. He was playing like game 6&7 Manu every game last year. He clearly hadn't gotten over his wife's miscarriage.

[Skull-1]

Sjax sucked, I mean really sucked last year. He was playing like game 6&7 Manu every game last year. He clearly hadn't gotten over his wife's miscarriage.


:lol

[024]

Knowing what I know now, would I have preferred Ellis over Manu? Yes.

Ellis is playing at an all star level right now and the Spurs need a second player that can create his own shot. We all saw what happened when the Heat shut down Parker in the finals. The offense just kind of rolled over and died. If not for a few fluke shots, Neal taking over a game, and the best 3 point shooting ever in the NBA finals by Green, the Heat would have crushed the Spurs.

Not only is Ellis scoring, but he's also creating shots for his teammates. He is seamlessly integrating into the Mavs offense.

[tenbeersbold]

Sjax sucked, I mean really sucked last year. He was playing like game 6&7 Manu every game last year. He clearly hadn't gotten over his wife's miscarriage.

Who knows,he didn't play much but he lived for the big games

Sjax was coming off a year where he was the ONLY NBA player in the 50-40-90 club for the 2013 playoffs

Sjax shot 53.5% from the field,60.5% from 3pt and 93.3% from the line

Sorry you can't convince me that having McGrady instead of Sjax on the court made any sense at all

PRESSURE baby!

[AchillesHeel]

:lol at all you dumb fucks for picking Manu over Monta at this stage

Monta is a good playmaker and a shot creator, while he's no Tony Allen on D he's not a serious liability either. I'd pick him over TOSB Manu.

I don't care what Manu did in the past, I want Spurs to win the 5th, if it meant kicking Manu to the curb, I'd be all for it.

[Skull-1]

:lol at all you dumb fucks for picking Manu over Monta at this stage

Monta is a good playmaker and a shot creator, while he's no Tony Allen on D he's not a serious liability either. I'd pick him over TOSB Manu.

I don't care what Manu did in the past, I want Spurs to win the 5th, if it meant kicking Manu to the curb, I'd be all for it.


Don't be such a hater. Truth is not allowed here. This is your first warning. :)

[ElNono]

:lol at all you dumb fucks for picking Manu over Monta at this stage

Monta is a good playmaker and a shot creator, while he's no Tony Allen on D he's not a serious liability either. I'd pick him over TOSB Manu.

I don't care what Manu did in the past, I want Spurs to win the 5th, if it meant kicking Manu to the curb, I'd be all for it.

In a vacuum, Monta is the better player overall at this stage in their careers. No doubt.

The thing with Monta is that he's ball dominant and needs to get his shots. So, whose shots would you sacrifice so he gets his? Kahwi? Duncan? Tony?... Manu barely takes 6 or so shots a game these days, he's largely a facilitator.

[PlayNando]

Monta I'd a waste of flesh.

[DAF86]

lol sons.

[Kool Bob Love]

15.1 PER, he gone fishin already. Richard Jefferson 2.0 for 3 more years?






http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/04/manu-ginobili-smile.jpg

[Chinook]

This was always an idiotic premise.

[100%duncan]

Even without hindsight tbh. OP's a faggot.

[100%duncan]

Johnny RIngo and Leetonidas get your asses over here

[Leetonidas]

tbh I said nothing that wasn't true. I'm not a Manu hater like some around here, I just think overall Ellis is currently a better player (is it really that horrible to say he's better than a 36 year old version of Manu?) and I know y'all mofos wanna look at this series and say :cry told you so! :cry but the Mavs only have two scorers and the Spurs were focused on stopping them while Dallas' defense was never good and no one could guard Manu effectively.

Never said he'd better for our needs or that he was a god tier player better than prime Manu, just that he's currently better overall than old ass Manu. Series didn't really change my mind tbh when Spurs defense let up on him, he made us pay plenty of times

[Diego20]

15.1 PER, he gone fishin already. Richard Jefferson 2.0 for 3 more years?

:cry:cry:cry:cry

[DAF86]

tbh I said nothing that wasn't true. I'm not a Manu hater like some around here, I just think overall Ellis is currently a better player (is it really that horrible to say he's better than a 36 year old version of Manu?) and I know y'all mofos wanna look at this series and say :cry told you so! :cry but the Mavs only have two scorers and the Spurs were focused on stopping them while Dallas' defense was never good and no one could guard Manu effectively.

Never said he'd better for our needs or that he was a god tier player better than prime Manu, just that he's currently better overall than old ass Manu. Series didn't really change my mind tbh when Spurs defense let up on him, he made us pay plenty of times

The thing is that no, Monta isn't a better player than 36 years old washed up Manu, if you look at stats how they're suppossed to be looked at it's easy to see. He isn't a better player in general and much less for the Spurs. What kind of role would you give a chucker of Monta's caliber on the Spurs system?

Everybody talks about how great Monta was this year but if you look at his stats they are rather mediocre, the worst Manu season in the NBA is better than Monta's season this year. That's why I find it funny when people say that Monta is better than Manu or that we should have signed him over Ginobili.

[ElNono]

:lol this thread crossed my mind last series... solid bump

[Chinook]

:lol this thread crossed my mind last series... solid bump

Boy, you really were keen to move on from Dallas, weren't you?

[DAF86]

:lol this thread crossed my mind last series... solid bump

You're not saved son.


In a vacuum, Monta is the better player overall at this stage in their careers. No doubt.

The thing with Monta is that he's ball dominant and needs to get his shots. So, whose shots would you sacrifice so he gets his? Kahwi? Duncan? Tony?... Manu barely takes 6 or so shots a game these days, he's largely a facilitator.


http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5858/80cff91b635f4245f4ddd88.gif

[Brazil]

tbh I said nothing that wasn't true. I'm not a Manu hater like some around here, I just think overall Ellis is currently a better player (is it really that horrible to say he's better than a 36 year old version of Manu?) and I know y'all mofos wanna look at this series and say :cry told you so! :cry but the Mavs only have two scorers and the Spurs were focused on stopping them while Dallas' defense was never good and no one could guard Manu effectively.

Never said he'd better for our needs or that he was a god tier player better than prime Manu, just that he's currently better overall than old ass Manu. Series didn't really change my mind tbh when Spurs defense let up on him, he made us pay plenty of times

I'm with Lee on dat one, Spurs were planning most of their defense to stop him, he has been a poison for us this serie because of the D attention he was drawing which let open guys like Harris.
Mavs did not plan anything particular on Manu, Manu's merit has been to make them pay, props to tosb Manu to make pay teams that don't respect him. I'm pretty sure Portland will do different which may open the game for others and then Manu haters will be all over this saying Manu is done forgetting D focusing on him.

[DAF86]

I'm with Lee on dat one, Spurs were planning most of their defense to stop him, he has been a poison for us this serie because of the D attention he was drawing which let open guys like Harris.
Mavs did not plan anything particular on Manu, Manu's merit has been to make them pay, props to tosb Manu to make pay teams that don't respect him. I'm pretty sure Portland will do different which may open the game for others and then Manu haters will be all over this saying Manu is done forgetting D focusing on him.

Mavs played Manu the same way they played Tony yet for most of the series, young, in-prime, stud Tony shitted the bed big time, tbh. :lol

[Skull-1]

tbh I said nothing that wasn't true. I'm not a Manu hater like some around here, I just think overall Ellis is currently a better player (is it really that horrible to say he's better than a 36 year old version of Manu?) and I know y'all mofos wanna look at this series and say :cry told you so! :cry but the Mavs only have two scorers and the Spurs were focused on stopping them while Dallas' defense was never good and no one could guard Manu effectively.

Never said he'd better for our needs or that he was a god tier player better than prime Manu, just that he's currently better overall than old ass Manu. Series didn't really change my mind tbh when Spurs defense let up on him, he made us pay plenty of times


Don't expect logic to matter. I don't always agree with you, but your posts are basically well thought out and rational. Manu will be exposed just like last year, too.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Don't expect logic to matter. I don't always agree with you, but your posts are basically well thought out and rational. Manu will be exposed just like last year, too.

:lol salty
:lol 'livin on a prayer'

[DAF86]

Don't expect logic to matter. I don't always agree with you, but your posts are basically well thought out and rational. Manu will be exposed just like last year, too.

If your logic is that Monta is better than Manu then your logic is flawed.

[Chinook]

I'm with Lee on dat one, Spurs were planning most of their defense to stop him, he has been a poison for us this serie because of the D attention he was drawing which let open guys like Harris.
Mavs did not plan anything particular on Manu, Manu's merit has been to make them pay, props to tosb Manu to make pay teams that don't respect him. I'm pretty sure Portland will do different which may open the game for others and then Manu haters will be all over this saying Manu is done forgetting D focusing on him.

The Spurs didn't focus their D to stop Ellis at all. It took them until Game Five to even hedge aggressively. They pretty played everyone the same, with the difference being which defenders Pop used on individual Mavs. The Spurs consistently destroyed Monta when they put Green on him and had Splitter hedge. No other Spur even had to think about leaving their men at that point.

[Sean Cagney]

Mavs played Manu the same way they played Tony yet for most of the series, young, in-prime, stud Tony shitted the bed big time, tbh. :lolTony played his ass off yesterday though in game 7, I don't get how you can be a fan of a team and constantly argue over two players and down the other (Both sides). I think most are not a true fan of the TEAM doing that, just of the player from their country.

[DAF86]

Tony played his ass off yesterday though in game 7, I don't get how you can be a fan of a team and constantly argue over two players and down the other (Both sides). I think most are not a true fan of the TEAM doing that, just of the player from their country.
Brazil and me have years doing this, we know what we're doing. :lol

[Brazil]

Mavs played Manu the same way they played Tony yet for most of the series, young, in-prime, stud Tony shitted the bed big time, tbh. :lol

Why are you bringing Parker on that conversation ? dear god you are restless... I'm giving props to Manu who had a better serie than Parker overall. I just disagree on the way you see Ellis, Ellis messed up with Spurs Defense all serie.

Mavs plan was to break ball movement and let the big 3 beat them one on one, I believe Pop wanted to find to maintain ball movement despite of that which is part of our struggle along with Parker running out of gas in the second halfs and shitting the bed like you say. Game 7 you could see strategy changed, it was much more you take what they are giving you. It ended up pretty well for the Spurs.

[Brazil]

Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) and me have years doing this, we know what we're doing. :lol

:lol

[DAF86]

Why are you bringing Parker on that conversation ? dear god you are restless... I'm giving props to Manu who had a better serie than Parker overall. I just disagree on the way you see Ellis, Ellis messed up with Spurs Defense all serie.

Mavs plan was to break ball movement and let the big 3 beat them one on one, I believe Pop wanted to find to maintain ball movement despite of that which is part of our struggle along with Parker running out of gas in the second halfs and shitting the bed like you say. Game 7 you could see strategy changed, it was much more you take what they are giving you. It ended up pretty well for the Spurs.

The Spurs did a shitty job on Ellis, if they would have just gone under the screen on his pick and rolls Ellis would have been even shittier than he was.

You know you are a shitty player when you shoot 40% from the field and people think you did well.

[Brazil]

The Spurs didn't focus their D to stop Ellis at all. It took them until Game Five to even hedge aggressively.

Monta is the player who received the more different looks defensively, Pop put his best defenders on him (Leonard and Green), everybody on the team tried: Manu, Mills, Leonard, Green... There was no system to specifically counter him but don't act like Monta has not been a freaking headache for Spurs D.

[Brazil]

The Spurs did a shitty job on Ellis, if they would have just gone under the screen on his pick and rolls Ellis would have been even shittier than he was.

You know you are a shitty player when you shoot 40% from the field and people think you did well.

go under the screen, put Green on him all the time... name it

[Chinook]

Monta is the player who received the more different looks defensively, Pop put his best defenders on him (Leonard and Green), everybody on the team tried: Manu, Mills, Leonard, Green... There was no system to specifically counter him but don't act like Monta has not been a freaking headache for Spurs D.

I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR. Yes, Green was most effective on Ellis, but so long as Splitter hedged well, Ellis was neutralized. That's not to say that Monta didn't make the Spurs change their game plan. Pop wanted to let him shoot to start the series, but because he was on fire, Pop had to start hedging. But he hedged against every Mav after that. He didn't do anything special for Ellis.

This was by far the best Ellis has ever played against the Spurs and Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority. Since Green's been starting, Ellis hasn't been a threat to SA at all. Had Pop not inexplicably pulled Danny off him in Game Six, the Spurs would have won easily.

[ElNono]

Boy, you really were keen to move on from Dallas, weren't you?

absolutely... That series had tough freaking luck written all over it... Shawn Marion and Devin Harris raining contested 3s, Vince Carter looking like prime VC and that scrub Calderon hitting everything from everywhere...

Mills and Beli couldn't hit the side of a barn. You gotta be good, but sometimes you also have to be a bit lucky, and I thought we couldn't catch a break that series.

I thought we got better as the series wore on, but hopefully we also catch a break or two going forward.

[ElNono]

You're not saved son.


http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5858/80cff91b635f4245f4ddd88.gif

:lol son, Monta definitely has more hops and he can still penetrate at will. He's only 28 years old. That IMO makes him a more versatile player at this stage of his career. There's no shame in saying that.

What always slowed Monta down is his terrible basketball decisions, which is actually what keeps Manu being great even at 37 (and even if he has some brainfarts here and there).

Heck, Monta almost pulls a Manu 6 this series in Game 6.

I do think though, that playing for a coach like Rick can change Monta's career enough to actually make him a smarter player. That's all he really needs. Otherwise, Monta has it all...

[ElNono]

I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR.

:lol exactly what I've been saying all series. If you look how he attacked, the guy on him mattered only so far as to contest any jumpers. We put Gino, Danny and Kawhi on him, and it didn't matter for penetration. He did that through hands-off and screens.

Brazil is good people, and has extensive knowledge of caipirinha, but he's a frenchie and a brazilian at heart, so there's some not so subtle trolling going on there... :lol

[ElNono]

But don't worry, now comes "We should've signed Mo Williams over Manu", the sequel... :lol

[DAF86]

:lol son, Monta definitely has more hops and he can still penetrate at will. He's only 28 years old. That IMO makes him a more versatile player at this stage of his career. There's no shame in saying that.

What always slowed Monta down is his terrible basketball decisions, which is actually what keeps Manu being great even at 37 (and even if he has some brainfarts here and there).

Heck, Monta almost pulls a Manu 6 this series in Game 6.

I do think though, that playing for a coach like Rick can change Monta's career enough to actually make him a smarter player. That's all he really needs. Otherwise, Monta has it all...

Everybody sucked Monta's balls this season and this series, yet he shot 42% and 40% respectively, and his all around numbers are pretty mediocre for all the minutes he gets. He's a mediocre player with a style of play that doesn't relate to winning basketball, Manu is and will forever be the better basketball player.

[Brazil]

I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR. Yes, Green was most effective on Ellis, but so long as Splitter hedged well, Ellis was neutralized. That's not to say that Monta didn't make the Spurs change their game plan. Pop wanted to let him shoot to start the series, but because he was on fire, Pop had to start hedging. But he hedged against every Mav after that. He didn't do anything special for Ellis.

This was by far the best Ellis has ever played against the Spurs and Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority. Since Green's been starting, Ellis hasn't been a threat to SA at all. Had Pop not inexplicably pulled Danny off him in Game Six, the Spurs would have won easily.

Manu on Ellis was a fucking bad idea, Ellis was feasting on him (did not check the stats on dat one so I maybe wrong).

I respectfully disagree on the "Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority", his interview was quite relevant when he said I had to remind my guys who is Vince Carter. If Carter was a priority for the players that wouldn't be needed.

I agree tho on your last part, I don't understand why Pop did not use Green 70% of the time on him... quite weird.

[Brazil]

:lol exactly what I've been saying all series. If you look how he attacked, the guy on him mattered only so far as to contest any jumpers. We put Gino, Danny and Kawhi on him, and it didn't matter for penetration. He did that through hands-off and screens.

Brazil is good people, and has extensive knowledge of caipirinha, but he's a frenchie and a brazilian at heart, so there's some not so subtle trolling going on there... :lol

:lol in no time, you gonna tell me that Manu was as effective guarding Ellis as Green

that does not make any sense

I don't like Manu guarding quick SGs, he does a much better job on SFs nowadays

[ElNono]

Everybody sucked Monta's balls this season and this series, yet he shot 42% and 40% respectively, and his all around numbers are pretty mediocre for all the minutes he gets. He's a mediocre player with a style of play that doesn't relate to winning basketball, Manu is and will forever be the better basketball player.

It's his first season in Dallas, and I'd like to see how he evolves under Rick. I thought he played better than he has in the past...

Monta has the advantage that he's playing at a time where any player that barrels into the paint gets the whistle. Kinda like Westbrook. They're valuable players.

Manu is at a different stage in his career. He's the setup guy, he is reliant on Tiago, Tim or the shooters to finish off what he creates. For the Spurs right now, I would argue that has more value.

[ElNono]

:lol in no time, you gonna tell me that Manu was as effective guarding Ellis as Green

that does not make any sense

I don't like Manu guarding quick SGs, he does a much better job on SFs nowadays

You've been saying that all series, even when I pointed out during the game that Kawhi and Green were getting torched too (and I knew you were reading :lol)

You can run with that schtick, that's fine. Sure, I would've preferred Manu to guard Calderon all series, but the reality is that he did a great job.

Green is the more dynamic defender, no doubt, if he wouldn't be compared to 37 year old manu, then he basically couldn't see the court. Danny though, has other problems. His penchant for biting on pump fakes or fouling 3 point shooters is something he's going to need to work on.

[ElNono]

Don't expect logic to matter.


I called it weeks ago. We are gonna' repeat history and get bounced by the #8 seed.

:lol



:lmao

[Chinook]

Manu on Ellis was a fucking bad idea, Ellis was feasting on him (did not check the stats on dat one so I maybe wrong).

I respectfully disagree on the "Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority", his interview was quite relevant when he said I had to remind my guys who is Vince Carter. If Carter was a priority for the players that wouldn't be needed.

I agree tho on your last part, I don't understand why Pop did not use Green 70% of the time on him... quite weird.

I didn't chart the numbers yet, and I don't know if I will because of the short turn-around between series, but I'm pretty sure that Ginobili's numbers on Ellis were very good. He got burned in Game Six, but that was because Duncan kept sinking back instead of hedging. There's no question Manu lacks Green's quickness and anticipation on defense, but he's still a very smart defender who knows how to use appropriate help.

But until/unless I get those numbers out (or someone finds numbers from another source), we can certainly agree to disagree about who was effective against whom and which Mav drew the most attention defensively.

[MeloHype]

Who the hell is Monte?

[superjames1992]

Monta Ellis shot 40.9% from the floor in this series, tbh. He scored a decent bit, but they were chucker-esque numbers at times. He had a 15.6 PER in the series. Not that good, tbh...... Only slightly above average. Manu's PER was 24.5. :toast

Ellis' WS/48 was .048.

His PER this year during the regular season was only 16.8.

[SpurYank]

Manu does more than score. His assists are a huge part of his game. Blair, when he was here, scored as many points off Manu's assists as he did on his own. Pop said it best. He is a huge part of the Spurs' success, even if neither Pop nor Manu know what he will do from one moment to the next. All Pop knows is "I want Manu in there because I know something is gonna happen." Can't say that about any other Spur. The game is supposed to be entertaining. Manu offers more entertainment than any Spur we have ever had. I, for one, am thankful he is still a Spur.

[Hoops Czar]

But don't worry, now comes "We should've signed Mo Williams over Manu", the sequel... :lol

Nope, but, the Spurs should have looked at him before they pissed away the MLE on Marco and Ayres.

[diego]

Manu scored almost as much as monta, way more efficiently, got more boards, steals, and assists, was the heart, the closer of his team and its enforcer too (the only spur to step to Blair when he was the mavs were doling out hard fouls), yet monta is better because he's 28? If anything this series makes me want to revisit manu > dirk, isn't that guy supposed to be unguardable? Wasn't his finesse game suppose to age better? Manu clowned the younger 7ft sg over and over this series, despite having lost a gear to father time.

I don't expect manu to play this well the entire PO but he shit all over dirk, monta and whoever else the mavs threw at him.

As for parker and the defensive focus, prime manu shat all over Marion so many times, and now its ok for a lineup of dirk Blair Marion Ellis Calderon to cut the head off the snake?

[Brazil]

You've been saying that all series, even when I pointed out during the game that Kawhi and Green were getting torched too (and I knew you were reading :lol)

You can run with that schtick, that's fine. Sure, I would've preferred Manu to guard Calderon all series, but the reality is that he did a great job.

Green is the more dynamic defender, no doubt, if he wouldn't be compared to 37 year old manu, then he basically couldn't see the court. Danny though, has other problems. His penchant for biting on pump fakes or fouling 3 point shooters is something he's going to need to work on.

Maybe I'm biased and flat wrong but for me Manu and Leonard couldn't defend properly Ellis. I have no hidden intention saying that, it's not a stone in Manu's garden at all. Dude is old and does not have lateral quickness to stay in front of him, it is more a comment on the why not using more Green on Ellis. Manu shouldn't be asked to guard that kind of guard imho

[100%duncan]

Who the hell is Monte?
:tu

[sexinthatsx]

Having Monta Ellis is awesome for your team... if you want him to play like a champ for 47 minutes and on the 48th minute chokes hard.

Everybody that says Monta is better than Gino has a point due to age difference, but given their pedigree and Manu's ability to still hit big shots, there really is no debate.

Just picture this: your team is down by 2 and need a 3-pointer in the last possesion, 12 seconds left. Who would you rather give the ball to, Ginobili or Monta? Anybody who says Monta should just gtfo.

[Capster]

Manu's been great, tbh... integral part of the best bench in the NBA...

I agree with ElNono. Ginobili is not a perfect player but none of them are!
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