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EVAY
11-22-2013, 04:59 PM
According to news reports, the Texas Board of Education today gave preliminary approval to a proposal to drop the second year of Algebra requirement for high school graduation. There was already a pathway for avoiding the second year of math requirement by taking a general curriculum rather than a college prep curriculum. Approximately 20 % of Texas high schoolers already took that approach. Now this change will allow even students pursuing an alleged 'academic' curriculum to avoid Algebra II.

Really impressive, eh?

Math? MATH?! We don't need no steenking math!!!

m>s
11-22-2013, 05:24 PM
If anything up it to calculus

boutons_deux
11-22-2013, 05:54 PM
...

TeyshaBlue
11-22-2013, 06:47 PM
http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/Texas-Board-of-Ed-votes-to-drop-algebra-II-mandate-232933901.html
Apparently, Texas wss one of only 17 states that required Algebra II.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-22-2013, 07:46 PM
http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/Texas-Board-of-Ed-votes-to-drop-algebra-II-mandate-232933901.html
Apparently, Texas wss one of only 17 states that required Algebra II.

Teysha beat me to it. Granted Arizona is about as far from a good measuring stick on public education as it gets, when I started HS as a freshman, everyone was excited they could take the honors freshman math class that covered algebra I/geometry and be done with math after that. When I saw this story I'm surprised Texas still required it. I think it's stupid as hell to lower math standards and don't agree with it all, but this isn't big news imo.

The part that's the most stupid, and it's another thing that doesn't just apply to Texas at all, is the fact the "general curriculum" (i.e. the curriculum kids who aren't going to college take) requires less math. If anything, the "general curriculum" should be more specialized and focus on technical skills so the kids graduating with it at least have a sliver of a chance at getting a decent job with a HS diploma.

Winehole23
11-23-2013, 02:45 AM
if standards are lowered, maybe our students will test out better.

Jacob1983
11-23-2013, 03:37 AM
I took Algebra in 8th grade, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus in high school. If I had to take those hard ass classes, emo pussy kids should have to pay their dues and fuckin' take them too.

mouse
11-23-2013, 11:25 AM
I took Algebra in 8th grade, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus in high school. If I had to take those hard ass classes, emo pussy kids should have to pay their dues and fuckin' take them too.


And how exactly is Geometry needed when working at Walmart?


Funny how they have no problem removing Algebra II and yet can't seem to let go of Darwin.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-23-2013, 11:29 AM
I took Algebra in 8th grade, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus in high school. If I had to take those hard ass classes, emo pussy kids should have to pay their dues and fuckin' take them too.

:lmao calling any of those classes hard

mouse
11-23-2013, 11:29 AM
You guys act like Math is really needed in today's youth as they roam the streets.

ygUxON4faJc

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-23-2013, 11:34 AM
Yeah mouse, math isn't needed for someone like you who "roams the streets" living in a trailer as a transient parasite.

mouse
11-23-2013, 11:43 AM
Yeah mouse, math isn't needed for someone like you who "roams the streets" living in a trailer as a transient parasite.


Yes I can see from your postings how math has made you a better person and the mature class act you are today..

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-23-2013, 12:18 PM
Yes I can see from your postings how math has made you a better person and the mature class act you are today..

:lol All the class in the world isn't gonna get you out of that double wide
:lol sounds like you spent too much time learning about classy poetry in high school and should have learned something useful in the real world

BradLohaus
11-23-2013, 10:08 PM
I remember my dad telling me that my textbooks were a joke. Awhile back I saw one of my friend's kid's books and said the same thing.

Algebra and Algebra 2 are a breeze for some kids, next to impossible for others, and moderately difficult for most, it seems. Genetics can be so cruel... or kind.

pgardn
11-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Real Algebra II was long gone in public schools once Algebra II became required. Just like physics. The State is the problem, they rate according to failures. So many kids coming into public HS can't complete REAL Algebra II. So the teachers are forced to pass them.

Everyone knows how to teach and understands what needs to be fixed in education because they went through it so this makes them experts. So the board would rather we keep the status quo in which Algebra II WAS not taught, it was just labeled as Algebra II.

Excellent. Raising standards, but not allowing teachers to fail kids... That's what the state wants.

m>s thinks that all students should be required to take calculus... Want a quiz m>s?

DMC
11-23-2013, 11:48 PM
Yeah, all these Taco Bell workers are hammering out the algebra.

It doesn't need to be a requirement. It can be an elective, sure. Let those who have a future in academia or science choose it, but let those who change oil and flip burgers get that diploma so they can be shot at by the hajis.

ErnestLynch
11-24-2013, 01:20 AM
We've been lowering the requirements for education since 1979, when the Department of Education was started. Watch the documentary 'lottery of birth' which is about as 'left wing' of a documentary as there is where they talk the about things such as the Trilateral Commission and why it was set up. You will see that our population has been intentionally dumbed down educationally since then, purposefully. What has been done to young people, over the last 30 years, is a crime. You're ignorant, by design, and don't even know it. It's in our public schools and in our universities but at the top schools for the best education. The rest of you are to chase useless degrees designed to do their work.

Let me give you the quick study here. The Trilateral Commission was formed after the sociological upheaveal of the 1960's and early 70's. Rockefeller, Breszenski, Carter....yes..Jimmy Carter, before he was president. Their concern was how did this all happen ? How did the 1960's happen ? How did 'they' lose control. It scared them. They decided the population, and more specifically, young people, were 'overeducated' and their expectations could not be met and this frustration caused revolt. They were the 1st generation more educated than their parents and they were in the streets, dissatisfied with how it all worked. So, they, the TC recommended to, intentionally, dumb down our public schools and universities ( by default ). The next election cycle Jimmy Carter was elected president and during his administration the Department of 'Education' was formed. ( Work is Freedom ). The purpose of the DoE is to do anything BUT educate.

Jacob1983
11-24-2013, 01:46 AM
I hope all of you that give me shit for working in retail lose your current job and can only get a lowly job at a retail store. I also hope you have to work there for at least 5 years and never getting promoted too and no nights or weekends off. Let's see how you feel when you get to experience that. I don't think you would be bashing random strangers on an internet message board for having some bad luck in the job market.

Nbadan
11-24-2013, 01:48 AM
We've been lowering the requirements for education since 1979, when the Department of Education was started. Watch the documentary 'lottery of birth' which is about as 'left wing' of a documentary as there is where they talk the about things such as the Trilateral Commission and why it was set up. You will see that our population has been intentionally dumbed down educationally since then, purposefully. What has been done to young people, over the last 30 years, is a crime. You're ignorant, by design, and don't even know it. It's in our public schools and in our universities but at the top schools for the best education. The rest of you are to chase useless degrees designed to do their work.

The US has one of the best education system's in the world..Yes students from the 50's and 60's 40's, had a better grasp of math facts but they couldn't use a computer, design a web page, use power-point, word, excel, access..

ErnestLynch
11-24-2013, 01:51 AM
The US has one of the best education system's in the world..Yes students from the 50's and 60's 40's, had a better grasp of math facts but they couldn't use a computer, design a web page, use power-point, word, excel, access..

HAHAHAHA...CREATING it and using it are two different things. Dennis Ritchie, the creator of the C language and basically, Unix, is in his 70's. You're just an end user, kiddo.

Who do you think created this shit, son ?

ErnestLynch
11-24-2013, 02:00 AM
The big names of the computing revolution, that gave us this, aren't household names. And they are all old farts, older than your parents I would guess. The modern digital tech industry sits on the shoulders of those that aren't even boomers. They're older than THAT. Hell, if you're 20, right now, Dennis Ritchie and that group know more about computers than you'll EVER know and they're your grandpas age. What's next ? We go to the moon ( again ) and you declare your generation the most smartest ever ?

Excel...HAHAHA...

But going back to my point up there. See, if you're young...and I'm not blaming you for being young...but you just don't understand what the 1960's and early 70's WERE and how it changed this nation or what 'the boomers' were about. There was a lot of brain power in that generation. Highly educated generation. Just by numbers alone but beyond that, a well educated generation. The most educated generation in our history. YOU, are not. But it's not your fault.

ErnestLynch
11-24-2013, 02:27 AM
What this generation needs is another version of Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton's favorite writer and who's book 'Tragedy and Hope' which outlined 'how the world works' and who runs it, by the self proclaimed historian of 'The Illuminati' as the book that influenced him the most. Another of his favorite Quigley books is 'The Evolution of Civilizations'. But, the most important thing here is, to examine who Carroll Quigly, who died in 1977, was. There is your answer to a few questions you may not even have held. This world is run by people and it's important to know who they are, what they believe, and what their goals are. In this, there are more answers to your life than most realize.

ErnestLynch
11-24-2013, 02:52 AM
The question being played out here in America, is whether 'inclusive diversity' is possible. A huge gamble on the part of the anglo-european power of this country that has and is putting the constitution and ideas of the founding fathers to the ultimate test and whether capitalism, the rule of law, can survive and/or accomplish this test. The odds are, these days, that you are little more than a lab rat. Whether you'll be exterminated or be the exterminator, is still in question. That, or the 'big experiment' works. America has always been an experiment.

FuzzyLumpkins
11-24-2013, 05:23 AM
algebra 2 is row matrices, exponentials, and irrational numbers. Exponentials and symmetries are where a lot of mathematical intuition comes into play. i respect they wanted that standard met. I am surprised not in the least that it cannot be.

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 07:53 AM
Most people in life aren't going to need to know math past Algebra I, unless the curriculum isn't that it use to be. I don't see a problem with this. I too Algebra in 7th grade, and continued on through HS with higher levels, but really? What do people need trig, analytic geometry, calculus, etc. for unless a job scientific job field needs it?

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 08:24 AM
Most people in life aren't going to need to know math past Algebra I, unless the curriculum isn't that it use to be. I don't see a problem with this. I too Algebra in 7th grade, and continued on through HS with higher levels, but really? What do people need trig, analytic geometry, calculus, etc. for unless a job scientific job field needs it?

It's not vocational school about how to weld, or sew, fix an combustion motor.

It's academic school about HOW TO LEARN, even weird, HARD, apparently useless stuff. The weirder, harder, more challenging it is, the better. Mastering it gives one confidence in one's intellectual capabilities, intelligence, when learning anything later on the job.

The problem I see here is that USA's stupid "one size fits all", the myth that "everybody must have equal ACADEMIC education to be a genius billionaire", rather than Euro style tracking onto academic or vocational paths. a vocational path wouldn't include Al Jabr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Compendious_Book_on_Calculation_by_Completion_ and_Balancing

Bill_Brasky
11-24-2013, 10:36 AM
holy shitballs. math is literally like the one thing that applies to everything. mathematics degrees are some of the best/most versatile, and obviously even moreo with masters/phd.

pgardn
11-24-2013, 10:58 AM
It is possible to prepare kids better by requiring fewer credits. This way longer periods of time could be spent on tougher material. Many kids can't handle 5-6 academic classes in one day, especially freshman. Also with the number of credits required now, the public school kids get about 48 min. per class vs. one hour. That's 12 minute of class time everyday.

Also reduce class size. Teachers could remediate and actually assess work properly. An English teacher has 180 students and is expected to have the students write 2 papers every week and grade them all with great care asking for corrections that are then regraded? And it takes 10-20 minutes per paper? Good luck...

This State is so removed from their unfunded mandates it's ridiculous. A huge portion of funds go to testing companies. It's a travesty and much of it is fixable. Another example of government trying to fix a problem and exacerbating the problem. They want accountability (testing), but then drastically reduced actual teaching.

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 11:07 AM
"Another example of government trying to fix a problem"

so who else would, could fix taxpayer-funded public schools? corporations running for-profit schools?

pgardn
11-24-2013, 11:17 AM
Most people in life aren't going to need to know math past Algebra I, unless the curriculum isn't that it use to be. I don't see a problem with this. I too Algebra in 7th grade, and continued on through HS with higher levels, but really? What do people need trig, analytic geometry, calculus, etc. for unless a job scientific job field needs it?

The subject is not as important as the process. Learning to problem solve through a variety of personal algorithms allows individuals to become general problems solvers. Some people have trouble making to do lists that require some sort of logistics and ability to rate the importance of multiple tasks. We call this work, and MANY people do this. Math indirectly aides with this type of reasoning. So take the kids as far as they can go individually.

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:18 AM
Solutions are not the private reserve of Government.
As has been illustrated on more than one occasion, solution sets are not universal nor should they be. That has historically been the methodological MO of Govt solutions because that's the approach best suited to centralized power structures.
Literally anyone can solve their problems locally... and many schools do. Transferring that success to another, far removed district is where that approach breaks down.

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:20 AM
The subject is not as important as the process. Learning to problem solve through a variety of personal algorithms allows individuals to become general problems solvers. Some people have trouble making to do lists that require some sort of logistics and ability to rate the importance of multiple tasks. We call this work, and MANY people do this. Math indirectly aides with this type of reasoning. So take the kids as far as they can go individually.

Exactly. Advanced Math is only a tool to teach problem solving and logic.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:21 AM
:lol we should have more for profit schools as the solution. :lol University of Phoenix.

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:22 AM
:lol we should have more for profit schools as the solution. :lol University of Phoenix.
Some work some don't.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:23 AM
Some work some don't.

:lmao which for profit schools work? Devry?

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:24 AM
You realize that not all for profit schools are post secondary, right?

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:26 AM
:lol defending for profit schools
:lol University of Phoenix
:lol Devry
:lol ITT Technical Institute

Education, for the future!

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:27 AM
Lots of emoticons no data. Good job. Now go get your shine box.

pgardn
11-24-2013, 11:27 AM
"Another example of government trying to fix a problem"

so who else would, could fix taxpayer-funded public schools? corporations running for-profit schools?




Boutons.
Look at how much money this State allocates to education. The lottery, for public schools, pssh, it goes to general funds. Do you even know how schools are funded in this State? How much per month do YOU pay directly to the school district in your property area?

Have you ever looked at your property taxes?

Tell me me how much money the state allocates per pupil vs. the individual property holder. You jump to a conclusion based on horrible assumptions that you don't think fit your party line when this is EXACTLY what your party points out (what I have mentioned above) .

So apologize and smash a pie in your face.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:29 AM
Lots of emoticons no data. Good job. Now go get your shine box.

:lol angry
:lol University of Phoenix lobbyist

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:31 AM
More emoticons, less logic. Yeah, this is a quality approach.
lol angry.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:32 AM
:lol certainly more quality than a University of Phoenix degree
:lol pretending you're not angry I'm attacking your right wing for profit schools

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:36 AM
GAO says Hi, DOK.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130731/EDU03/307310029/

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:38 AM
And since you seem confused and have retreated to your tautological fortress, Im not saying this is a universal cure all..... only that some work, some don't.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:38 AM
:lol "success rate"
:lol show me the jobs and salary those GI Bill welfare queens get after they're done with their for profit degree

TeyshaBlue
11-24-2013, 11:39 AM
*cue the emoticons sans data*

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 11:42 AM
Solutions are not the private reserve of Government.
As has been illustrated on more than one occasion, solution sets are not universal nor should they be. That has historically been the methodological MO of Govt solutions because that's the approach best suited to centralized power structures.
Literally anyone can solve their problems locally... and many schools do. Transferring that success to another, far removed district is where that approach breaks down.

so how would anybody but govt solve govt schools?

wealthy public school districts, a huge property tax or other base, do wonderfully in most cases. poor districts, esp rural and blighted urban districts, do much worse.

teachers are undertrained, underqualified, underpaid, disrespected, deningrated by the VRWC/Repugs as a means to bust their unions, and under pressure to teach to the test.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 11:42 AM
From the article you posted:


These for-profits posted student-loan default rates about 6.5 percentage points higher than those of public schools.

:lol for profit school students defaulting on their loans
:lol for profit schools should do a better job teaching math
:lol maybe their students would pay their loans on time if they knew math

pgardn
11-24-2013, 12:40 PM
so how would anybody but govt solve govt schools?

wealthy public school districts, a huge property tax or other base, do wonderfully in most cases. poor districts, esp rural and blighted urban districts, do much worse.

teachers are undertrained, underqualified, underpaid, disrespected, deningrated by the VRWC/Repugs as a means to bust their unions, and under pressure to teach to the test.

Not undertrained and under qualified in the richer school districts on the whole. In this city anyway.

pgardn
11-24-2013, 12:54 PM
If for profit schools can do the job then fine. I am always skeptical when profit is the goal.

In some public school districts the teachers put themselves ahead of the students. So is there a difference? Of course the teachers often teach in war zones. There are some very good public magnate schools in this city as well as pure public schools. But again, the public schools with students and parents that care attract good teachers.

This was the whole idea of hiring college kids into programs to go into poor areas (to pay for their tuition). The results are mixed. Many leave, up to 2/3 after 2 years. It's a rude awakening.

baseline bum
11-24-2013, 01:16 PM
Still can't understand anyone going to those piece of shit for-profit schools. $30,000 a year to go to ITT Tech so I can be raped for $200 for a textbook written in India, or $10,000 a year at UTSA (closest equivalent to ITT Tech tbh) so I can be raped for only $150 for my American made textbook.

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 01:42 PM
Boutons.
Look at how much money this State allocates to education. The lottery, for public schools, pssh, it goes to general funds. Do you even know how schools are funded in this State? How much per month do YOU pay directly to the school district in your property area?

Have you ever looked at your property taxes?

Tell me me how much money the state allocates per pupil vs. the individual property holder. You jump to a conclusion based on horrible assumptions that you don't think fit your party line when this is EXACTLY what your party points out (what I have mentioned above) .

So apologize and smash a pie in your face.

TX is in about the bottom 3 or 4 states of education spending per student

RickyBobby cut property taxes a few years, resulting in a $5B cut to schools, some has been restored, but the Repug agenda is clear.

TX spends about $20B/year on "tax expenditures" to business.

GFY

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:04 PM
Still can't understand anyone going to those piece of shit for-profit schools. $30,000 a year to go to ITT Tech so I can be raped for $200 for a textbook written in India, or $10,000 a year at UTSA (closest equivalent to ITT Tech tbh) so I can be raped for only $150 for my American made textbook.

The worst I've heard is how many dumbasses paid $30,000 to go to fucking Donald Trump University :lol

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 02:14 PM
The worst I've heard is how many dumbasses paid $30,000 to go to fucking Donald Trump University :lol

he's being sued for false advertising

a few years ago, unemployed law grads were suing law schools about the school's ads saying, IIRC, that legal jobs were almost guaranteed.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:16 PM
he's being sued for false advertising

a few years ago, unemployed law grads were suing law schools about the school's ads saying, IIRC, that legal jobs were almost guaranteed.
:lol there are a few chumps in the NFL forum who were jerking themselves off yesterday about how many job prospects they'll get by going to l:lolw school when they graduate.

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 02:19 PM
Yeah mouse, math isn't needed for someone like you who "roams the streets" living in a trailer as a transient parasite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stXG3np-BWE

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 02:22 PM
:lol there are a few chumps in the NFL forum who were jerking themselves off yesterday about how many job prospects they'll get by going to l:lolw school when they graduate.
i dont think anybody in that convo said they'll have a super easy time finding a job... although calling it a shit degree as you did is pretty moronic

baseline bum
11-24-2013, 02:22 PM
he's being sued for false advertising

a few years ago, unemployed law grads were suing law schools about the school's ads saying, IIRC, that legal jobs were almost guaranteed.

LOL, I remember that lawsuit, where the law schools were counting jobs at Macy's and McDonalds toward their graduate job placement numbers. :rollin

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:24 PM
LOL, I remember that lawsuit, where the law schools were counting jobs at Macy's and McDonalds toward their graduate job placement numbers. :rollin

:lol and it wasn't even the shit tier law schools that were doing that. UCLA, USC and I think even Cal Berkley were involved in that suit.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:32 PM
i dont think anybody in that convo said they'll have a super easy time finding a job... although calling it a shit degree as you did is pretty moronic
Me and all the people who work at Target suing California Law Schools :lol

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 02:34 PM
i'm well aware its a saturated and competitive field. if you go to a better school and/or finish near top of your class, you can make your own luck. JD still has among the highest average salaries of post-grad degrees

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:35 PM
FTR, I don't think it's a shit degree if it's from an elite school. It's just like an MBA these days. People who waste money on a middle tier MBA aren't any less retarded than people who waste money on a middle tier law school.

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 02:38 PM
St. Mary’s College of Maryland joins troubling U.S. trend: Too many empty freshman seats

A growing number of colleges nationwide are scrambling to fill classes, a trend analysts say is driven by a decline in the number of students graduating from high school and widespread concern among families about the price of higher education.

The admissions upheaval at schools ranging from lower-tier colleges to esteemed regional ones, including St. Mary’s College of Maryland, contrasts with the extraordinary demand for the most elite colleges and universities.

Demographics pose a major hurdle for many colleges that market primarily to high school students. The number of new high school graduates peaked in 2011, after 17 years of growth, and is not projected to reach a new high until 2024, according to the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education. Analysts and educators expect that a rising share of incoming students will need major financial aid.

The economic recovery is also hurting enrollment because fewer people go to college when jobs are available. According to state data released this week, Maryland colleges have 2.8 percent fewer students this fall, the second straight year of decline and the sharpest annual drop in 30 years.

Nationwide, college enrollment fell about 2 percent this past school year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/st-marys-college-of-maryland-joins-troubling-trend-too-many-empty-freshman-seats/2013/11/22/2fd1f8c0-489a-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_print.html

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 02:38 PM
imo i have a solid shot of getting into a tier 1 school, especially coming out of biochem

http://i.imgur.com/LLJ5JuM.png?1?7553

fyi csun is closer to my house, i commute to school, and didnt think it was worth a 25 mile drive to take a test

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 02:45 PM
Nice tbh, so are you shooting for Stanford?

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 02:57 PM
applying there, but can't be too hopeful. its fuckin #3 in the country :lol. applying in state though. stanford and cal up north, SC and UCLA down here, and a couple of safety net schools after that. its funny though since i activated the application process i've gotten mail from Northwestern, UPenn offering to waive an application fee because my scores are public :lol. dont want to leave the state though.

berkley would be cool so i could get season tix to the raiders shit fest

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 03:11 PM
LOL...

The responses to what I said.

I will assume Algebra II isn't even as good as Algebra I was when I was in school...

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 03:15 PM
i would have been bored as fuck in high school if our math curriculum ended before algebra II

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 03:29 PM
High School would have been infinitely less boring if not for the 4 years of English requirement with English class being the most demanding class every year. The books they make you read aren't even good.

Foreign language teaching is also horrid at the high school level. Memorizing vocab words does nothing to help learn the language, they'd be better off just buying every student Rosetta Stone.

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 03:33 PM
^this. to me, chemistry physics and math is what kept HS interesting. the other classes were boring and bullshit.

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 03:42 PM
^this. to me, chemistry physics and math is what kept HS interesting. the other classes were boring and bullshit.

Chemistry would be even better if not for lazy teachers imo. Making students memorize the periodic table does nothing other than give the teacher material to test on without having to teach anything. The "honors" chemistry class I had in high school had an extra credit project that involved sewing a stuffed animal. It was all busy work.

American History is maybe the biggest joke of what's taught in high schools. While slavery is significant, it shouldn't be the only fucking thing pre civil war American history class teaches, especially since slavery isn't even what started the civil war.

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 03:49 PM
Chemistry would be even better if not for lazy teachers imo. Making students memorize the periodic table does nothing other than give the teacher material to test on without having to teach anything. The "honors" chemistry class I had in high school had an extra credit project that involved sewing a stuffed animal. It was all busy work.

American History is maybe the biggest joke of what's taught in high schools. While slavery is significant, it shouldn't be the only fucking thing pre civil war American history class teaches, especially since slavery isn't even what started the civil war.
my ap chem teacher was great. was my favorite class i ever took in high school. european history was ok

baseline bum
11-24-2013, 03:54 PM
Almost all science and math in high school is boring as fuck. Here's 50 problems of busywork, every single one the same as the preceding problem. Now get to work class while I sit here and zone out. It should be expected though when you don't actually have to know math, physics, chemistry, etc in any kind of meaningful way to teach it in our high schools. And then the textbooks are even worse.

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 04:00 PM
^this. to me, chemistry physics and math is what kept HS interesting. the other classes were boring and bullshit.

I agree. I also took drafting, mechanics, and electronic. Math isn't something everyone wants to pursue however.

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 05:24 PM
SBOE and BigCarbon shills get TX into the NYTimes, elevating TX's image a rural backwater and full of Christian supremacists and Bible literalis.


Texas Education Board Flags Biology Textbook Over Evolution Concerns

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/11/23/us/SUB-TEXTBOOKS/SUB-TEXTBOOKS-articleLarge.jpg

The Texas Board of Education on Friday delayed final approval of a widely used biology textbook because of concerns raised by one reviewer that it presents evolution as fact rather than theory.

The monthslong textbook review process in Texas has been controversial because a number of people selected this year to evaluate publishers’ submissions do not accept evolution or climate change as scientific truth.

On Friday, the state board, which includes several members who hold creationist views, voted to recommend 14 textbooks in biology and environmental science. But its approval of “Biology,” a highly regarded textbook by Kenneth R. Miller, a biologist at Brown University, and Joseph S. Levine, a science journalist, and published by Pearson Education, was contingent upon an expert panel determining whether any corrections are warranted. Until the panel rules on the alleged errors, Pearson will not be able to market its book as approved by the board to school districts in Texas.

“It’s just a shame that quality textbooks still have to jump through ridiculous hoops that have no basis in science,” said Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network, which monitors the activities of far-right organizations.

Ms. Miller (no relation to the Pearson textbook author) said she nevertheless gave Friday’s vote “two opposable thumbs up” because the board “adopted all of the science books and the publishers made no effort to water down evolution or climate science in those books.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/education/texas-education-board-flags-biology-textbook-over-evolution-concerns.html?from=science

pgardn
11-24-2013, 06:21 PM
TX is in about the bottom 3 or 4 states of education spending per student

RickyBobby cut property taxes a few years, resulting in a $5B cut to schools, some has been restored, but the Repug agenda is clear.



GFY

Boutons you are a true idiot. This is exactly what wrote about.

Except that Perry put the burden on property owners, the amount the State spends just shrinks. Then he cut the amount property owners can be taxed totally putting schools in a bind. The real problem is the diversion of State money that was supposed to go to education.

What type of pie did you slam into your face?

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 06:30 PM
Texas also has one of the lowest costs of living in the nation. It stands to reason the spending per student will be among the lowest in the nation as well.

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 07:07 PM
Texas also has one of the lowest costs of living in the nation. It stands to reason the spending per student will be among the lowest in the nation as well.

TX is about 48th in USA in spending/student. that's not explained totally or significantly by cost of living.

PlayNando
11-24-2013, 07:32 PM
:lol America. :lol

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 07:51 PM
TX is about 48th in USA in spending/student. that's not explained totally or significantly by cost of living.

Proving yourself the idiot again, huh?

DUNCANownsKOBE
11-24-2013, 07:56 PM
If you adjust for cost of living Texas is 46th in spending per student. We've been over this, but idk how it has anything to do with this thread.

Wild Cobra
11-24-2013, 08:46 PM
If you adjust for cost of living Texas is 46th in spending per student. We've been over this, but idk how it has anything to do with this thread.
And teacher pay is lower reducing the costs.

Tell me.

Does paying a teacher more make them better?

Yes...

We've been over this, and time and time again, throwing more money at a problem seldom works.

spurraider21
11-24-2013, 09:07 PM
We've been over this, and time and time again, throwing more money at a problem seldom works.
this. my own university has been raising tuitions out the ass for the past decade and you can walk around campus for 5 minutes and see all the wasteful spending

boutons_deux
11-24-2013, 09:17 PM
And teacher pay is lower reducing the costs.

Tell me.

Does paying a teacher more make them better?

Yes...

We've been over this, and time and time again, throwing more money at a problem seldom works.

the problem is that teachers are underpaid, pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

high churn rate, IIRC TX teacher career averages 5 years.

You pay higher, so you also expect more, better education, not only in subjects taught but in pedagogy, etc, etc.

BradLohaus
11-24-2013, 11:39 PM
What this generation needs is another version of Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton's favorite writer and who's book 'Tragedy and Hope' which outlined 'how the world works' and who runs it, by the self proclaimed historian of 'The Illuminati' as the book that influenced him the most. Another of his favorite Quigley books is 'The Evolution of Civilizations'. But, the most important thing here is, to examine who Carroll Quigly, who died in 1977, was. There is your answer to a few questions you may not even have held. This world is run by people and it's important to know who they are, what they believe, and what their goals are. In this, there are more answers to your life than most realize.

Best book I've ever read. The really frightening part is the rant he goes on in the last chapter about the bourgeoises. The intellectual left hates the small business owner/white collar type middle class and always has since Marx. Evolution of Civilizations is great too; Quigley was a great (and extremely arrogant) writer.

Since I've read that book I've always thought another part of the last chapter was funny. This is Bill Clinton's mentor, and he goes off on how whites are adopting negro behavior, and how detrimental that will end up being. ROFL the media doesn't ever bring that up.

Winehole23
11-25-2013, 02:43 AM
First I've ever heard of it. I should care why?

Winehole23
11-25-2013, 02:44 AM
buzzed in Clinton's ear?

BradLohaus
11-25-2013, 05:00 AM
Quigley was one of Clinton's professors at Georgetown. He mentioned him in is inauguration speech.

Wild Cobra
11-25-2013, 12:34 PM
the problem is that teachers are underpaid, pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

high churn rate, IIRC TX teacher career averages 5 years.

You pay higher, so you also expect more, better education, not only in subjects taught but in pedagogy, etc, etc.
Supply and demand. In this economy, teachers should be thankful they even have a job.

EVAY
11-25-2013, 01:10 PM
The subject is not as important as the process. Learning to problem solve through a variety of personal algorithms allows individuals to become general problems solvers. Some people have trouble making to do lists that require some sort of logistics and ability to rate the importance of multiple tasks. We call this work, and MANY people do this. Math indirectly aides with this type of reasoning. So take the kids as far as they can go individually.

This.

THIS.

THIS.

RandomGuy
11-25-2013, 01:13 PM
Supply and demand. In this economy, teachers should be thankful they even have a job.

Because, when the economy is bad, we can stop educating children.

(rolls eyes)

boutons_deux
11-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Supply and demand. In this economy, teachers should be thankful they even have a job.

amazing comedy, our favorite self-ridiculer

public education is not part of the economy, but the VRWC in trying to destroy public education intends to make it part of the for-profit economy.

caveat emptor: for-profit anything delivers the shittiest possible product for the highest possible price.

EVAY
11-25-2013, 01:26 PM
Learning to THINK is one of the greatest gifts anyone can ever receive from anyone else. For many people, the only person who succeeds in giving that gift is a math or science or stat teacher.

The position of some in here that great teachers can be had for a pittance (and feel lucky that they got any job at all) are clear examples of folks who never learned to think critically. Excellent math does not guarantee an ability to think, nor does a lack of math guarantee that one cannot think critically, but well done math education is a HUGE contributor to thinking skills. And we SHOULD be willing, as a society, to pay people who are willing to teach it very high salaries. The fact that we do not is a terrible statement, and certainly no proof of supply and demand economics.

Wild Cobra
11-25-2013, 01:41 PM
Because, when the economy is bad, we can stop educating children.

(rolls eyes)

OK...

Just where is all this money suppose to come from?

Barbara Eden?

A money tree?

Th'Pusher
11-25-2013, 01:41 PM
Learning to THINK is one of the greatest gifts anyone can ever receive from anyone else. For many people, the only person who succeeds in giving that gift is a math or science or stat teacher.

The position of some in here that great teachers can be had for a pittance (and feel lucky that they got any job at all) are clear examples of folks who never learned to think critically. Excellent math does not guarantee an ability to think, nor does a lack of math guarantee that one cannot think critically, but well done math education is a HUGE contributor to thinking skills. And we SHOULD be willing, as a society, to pay people who are willing to teach it very high salaries. The fact that we do not is a terrible statement, and certainly no proof of supply and demand economics.

Should teaches of STEM curriculum be paid more than teachers of non-STEM curriculum?

Wild Cobra
11-25-2013, 01:43 PM
The problem with education is the bureaucracy and sissy parents. Not money.

RandomGuy
11-25-2013, 01:46 PM
OK...

Just where is all this money suppose to come from?

Barbara Eden?

A money tree?

You were serious?

wow. I was being facetious.

Borrow it if you have to, raise taxes if you have to, but educate kids.

It is not optional and yields more money than you invest by any measure, dollar for dollar, meaning the less you spend, the smaller your future economy. It is something like eating your seed corn.

Wild Cobra
11-25-2013, 02:28 PM
You were serious?

wow. I was being facetious.

Borrow it if you have to, raise taxes if you have to, but educate kids.

It is not optional and yields more money than you invest by any measure, dollar for dollar, meaning the less you spend, the smaller your future economy. It is something like eating your seed corn.
More money isn't going to improve poor teachers, and lack of discipline. You have to take all the stupidity out of education from the top down.

boutons_deux
11-25-2013, 02:44 PM
Dumbing Down America: The Decline of Education in the US as Seen From Down Under

"[The aim of public education is not] to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence. . . . Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim . . . is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States. . . . " - Henry Mencken, The American Mercury, April 1924.

"If the right-wing billionaires and apostles of corporate power have their way, public schools will become 'dead zones of the imagination,' reduced to anti-public spaces that wage an assault on critical thinking, civic literacy and historical memory." - Henry Giroux, 2013 (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/18133-when-schools-become-dead-zones-of-the-imagination-a-critical-pedagogy-manifesto#I).

The United States consistently spends far more money per school age studen (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/31/education-in-america_n_3849110.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics)t than any other country in the world, something like $11,800 per child compared with $4,000-$5,000 in comparable countries. Excluding the huge sums spent on the 10 percent of children who go to private schools, the United States spends something like $8,000 of public money per child per year. Yet, in 2012, the United States was 27th on the list of world rankings for school educational achievement, well below Cuba, below even Mexico and Brazil. Social critics regularly blast American public schools as little more than mind-deadening (http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/17103-the-perils-of-zombie-education)factoriesdesigned to propel working class white students into brain-dead jobs and minority students straight into the arms of the prison-industrial complex (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/18168-what-do-you-do-when-you-no-longer-need-your-slaves-or-your-workers). From the other side, public schools are excoriated as retirement parks for lazy unionized teachers to indulge their habit of force-feeding the innocent on Marxist propaganda.

(http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20043-dumbing-down-america-the-decline-of-education-in-the-us-as-seen-from-down-under) They charge what they like, and what they like is governed not by what they need, or what it costs, or what is good for the students or for the country, but what they think the suckers - er, excuse me - the discerning students, will pay. The problem is, what they will pay is artificially inflated by the ready availability of student loans. For various reasons, over the past 50 years, the United States has developed a system of providing more or less unlimited loans to students on no surety. However, they aren't ordinary loans as they cannot be evaded by any means other than dying in poverty. Ordinary bankruptcy rules do not apply, and family members can be held liable for the debt if the student defaults.

Journalist (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20043-dumbing-down-america-the-decline-of-education-in-the-us-as-seen-from-down-under)Matt Taibbi (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/ripping-off-young-america-the-college-loan-scandal-20130815)has given a chilling account of how the cost of education has exploded: "Between 1950 and 1970, sending a kid to a public university costed about 4 percent of an American family's annual income. Forty years later, in 2010, it accounted for 11 percent. Moody's released statistics showing tuition and fees rising 300 percent versus the Consumer Price Index between 1990 and 2011." B (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/cost-of-college-degree-increase-12-fold-1120-percent-bloomberg_n_1783700.html)loomberg (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/cost-of-college-degree-increase-12-fold-1120-percent-bloomberg_n_1783700.html)says college tuition and fees have increased 1,120 percent since records began in 1978. As states have cut their education budgets, students have been forced to borrow heavily to make up the shortfall (not that universities did anything aboutc (http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Faculty-ebook/dp/B005CU4TPK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378009021&sr=8-1&keywords=benjamin+ginsberg)utting their costs (http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Faculty-ebook/dp/B005CU4TPK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378009021&sr=8-1&keywords=benjamin+ginsberg), of course). Students now graduate with an average debt of $28,000, but for long courses such as medicine, it is very much more. Two physicians I know in the United States graduated with debts of $250,000 and $400,000 respectively.

Meanwhile, back in Oz, we have a fairly complex system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertiary_education_fees_in_Australia) that allows people to borrow from the government to pay their university fees, with interest fixed at the rate of inflation. A degree in applied maths/IT at Queensland University of Technology, which is 15 minutes by ferry from where I live, costs $4,400 a semester, totaling $26,400 for a three-year degree. My son is studying a similar course in Boston at present, for $15,000 a semester, nearly four times as much. Medicine at University of Qld, a well-regarded school, costs $10,000 a year for four years, whereas foreign students pay the actual cost, $54,000 a year. For citizens, the cost of university fees can be borrowed to a maximum of $112,000, which fully covers all degree courses and many post-grad courses as well. It does not have to be paid back until the graduate is earning about $45,000 a year, and then the rate of repayment is not to exceed 4 percent of income in a year. The rate of repayment rises steadily to a maximum of 8 percent on an income of $83,000 a year (there are benefits to paying it off sooner). Interest is fixed at the rate of inflation.


What's the point? The point is that American primary and secondary education costs far more than it should and fails a significant part of the population who are disadvantaged through no fault of their own. It isn't for lack of money: It is lack of political will, the inability of the American electorate to realize that they have to work together to solve a problem that other nations solved a hundred or more years ago. American tertiary education has become a massive falsehood. Students pay for their own education by mortgaging their futures for degrees that, very often, aren't worth half of what they cost. What's the difference between paying for education through taxes and borrowing against your future? It's this: If the US government did its duty and paid for tertiary education through taxes, then it would have an incentive to keep a tight rein on costs. As it is, generations of students are being reamed by private banks that borrow money from the US Treasury at 0.75 percent and lend it to students at 6.4 percent just so their friends in the universities can build bloated bureaucratic empires (http://www.hr.unsw.edu.au/services/salaries/acadsal.html) for their self-aggrandizing staff. Now that must surely be one of the greatest con jobs of all time.

But making a disabled man pay for an education he can no longer use? What's the use of learning to read if you never read ethics?

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20043-dumbing-down-america-the-decline-of-education-in-the-us-as-seen-from-down-under (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20043-dumbing-down-america-the-decline-of-education-in-the-us-as-seen-from-down-under)

In almost every product common to industrial societies, Americans way pay more and receive way less. cable, internet, cellphone, education, and HEALTH CARE, etc

baseline bum
11-25-2013, 06:07 PM
Should teaches of STEM curriculum be paid more than teachers of non-STEM curriculum?

Of course.

pgardn
11-25-2013, 06:47 PM
The problem with education is the bureaucracy and sissy parents. Not money.


Tell that to excellent teachers with huge classes. Ask them if class size was cut from 35 to 17, if they could do a better teaching to individuals.

Nbadan
11-26-2013, 01:17 AM
Yet, in 2012, the United States was 27th on the list of world rankings for school educational achievement,

:rolleyes

Not this shit again....


The US tests everyone...special ed...bilingual....monolingual...everyone...If we tested only the best like most countries do the US would be at the top....

Nbadan
11-26-2013, 01:22 AM
Of course.

you gotta look at it this way...a teacher who teaches Calculus or Trig or Physics have a ton of other jobs options...a teacher who teaches English, Science or Social Studies have some job options...a teacher who coaches or teaches an elective become school administrators...

:lol

Nbadan
11-26-2013, 01:24 AM
Tell that to excellent teachers with huge classes. Ask them if class size was cut from 35 to 17, if they could do a better teaching to individuals.

Some schools in SA have 35 kids per class...

BradLohaus
11-26-2013, 07:10 AM
The Left hates science. Kids are smart because their parents are. Paying teachers more changes nothing. 40 kids per class! Yall are hilarious.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 11:51 AM
Some schools in SA have 35 kids per class...
Yes.
Good schools. Usually English and Govt/History.
Run of the mill math classes as well. Upper and lower level math get more attention, ie fewer students.
Science not usually because the teachers let Amin. know it is a lab danger.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 11:56 AM
The Left hates science. Kids are smart because their parents are. Paying teachers more changes nothing. 40 kids per class! Yall are hilarious.

You don't have to pay individual teachers more, you just need more good teachers. Which in effect costs more $.
So your parents were stupid because you can't understand that teachers can be much more effective with fewer students in a class. With fewer classes that last longer, you don't think this makes a difference?

Its ts the same old tired right wing "we need dumb kids to dig the ditches..."

pgardn
11-26-2013, 12:00 PM
:rolleyes

Not this shit again....


The US tests everyone...special ed...bilingual....monolingual...everyone...If we tested only the best like most countries do the US would be at the top....

Finally you make a very important post that needs repeating as some people on this board have stupid parents according to Lohaus.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 12:04 PM
The Left hates science. Kids are smart because their parents are. Paying teachers more changes nothing. 40 kids per class! Yall are hilarious.

I can walk you into an APB Physics class on Monday with 37 students. We will need visitor badges. I can walk you into classes whole buildings of classes with over 30 students in every class.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 12:10 PM
Because, when the economy is bad, we can stop educating children.

(rolls eyes)

When the economy is good people pity teacher, "look, the guy that fixes the air conditioner makes more than the teachers"

When the economy is bad, " well fuck, they have a job".

EVAY
11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
As a baby boomer (yes, that hated generation), I was in classes of 70 students per class all the way through grade school. I was small for my age and so was always seated in the front row ( with that many kids they seated students according to height). I did just fine through grade school and then went through a college-prep high school curriculum before going through to a Ph.D. in college.

HOWEVER, most of the kids in my classes were not so lucky. Don't believe me? Look who is running the state of Alabama today and tell me that they didn't need smaller class sizes in grade school. :lol

EVAY
11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
dp. sorry. too many students in my classes!:lol

RandomGuy
11-26-2013, 12:48 PM
More money isn't going to improve poor teachers, and lack of discipline. You have to take all the stupidity out of education from the top down.

More money will not improve teachers. That wasn't my point, never has been, and never will be.

More money will attract more talent.

RandomGuy
11-26-2013, 12:56 PM
The Left hates science. Kids are smart because their parents are. Paying teachers more changes nothing. 40 kids per class! Yall are hilarious.

The left is not waging a war on science, the right is. It is pretty easy to make that case vis a vis creationism on the part of the evangelicals driving the GOP bus.

Paying teachers more, and having more of them does affect performance.

Simple supply and demand dictates that the supply of quality teachers will go up as pay is increased. It doesn't get any more basic free market than that. Economics 101.

I would, though be interested to see on what basis you could claim "the left hates science"? link?

RandomGuy
11-26-2013, 01:02 PM
:rolleyes

Not this shit again....


The US tests everyone...special ed...bilingual....monolingual...everyone...If we tested only the best like most countries do the US would be at the top....
+1

Not sure where we would end up, if that factor were controlled for though.

RandomGuy
11-26-2013, 01:11 PM
You have to take all the stupidity out of education from the top down.

You are going to have to remove a lot of laws then, especially those that govern special education.

I would be happy to see if there were some specific things we could agree on. Do you have any specific ideas?

Wild Cobra
11-26-2013, 01:39 PM
More money will attract more talent.
Maybe it will, but it will also attract more of the ones who know how to game the system.

Do you agree or disagree that the bureaucracy in the education field is a major problem?

I say it is the primary problem.

I have spoke of raising teachers pay, but only as merit pay. Not a step system. Reward the good teachers, and let the poorer ones pay raises go stagnant.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2013, 01:40 PM
You are going to have to remove a lot of laws then, especially those that govern special education.

I would be happy to see if there were some specific things we could agree on. Do you have any specific ideas?
How about we just revert to what we had in the 70's, or earlier? Before these massive changes took effect when the Department of Education was formed.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 02:20 PM
How about we just revert to what we had in the 70's, or earlier? Before these massive changes took effect when the Department of Education was formed.

The teachers are better now.

Special ed. and emphasis on the lowest common denominator are a huge problem imo.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 02:22 PM
+1

Not sure where we would end up, if that factor were controlled for though.

Probably very close to the top with fewer years actually spent in that subject area.

pgardn
11-26-2013, 02:29 PM
The problem in the US, on the whole, is no one has an idea on the purpose of schools.


Surrogate family
A safe place to get fed twice
Mental hospital for young people
A place to warehouse young males so that they are watched by an adult and not robbing a house for an 8 hr period.
A place to learn the basics of R,W, and AR
A place to produce the best and brightest.
On and on...

Nbadan
11-26-2013, 02:57 PM
Special ed. and emphasis on the lowest common denominator are a huge problem imo.

This 'guy' knows what he's talking about.....When you set a standard which must be the same for everyone, as no child left behind does, you lower the bar for everyone....and you teach to the lowest common denominator...the first step to fixing education believe it or not, is reform no-child left behind..but the Department of Education, with all its stupid rules also needs to be used to enhance the public education system and not undermine it with Gates Foundation money...

Alex Jones
11-26-2013, 09:40 PM
OK...

Just where is all this money suppose to come from?

Barbara Eden?

A money tree?


Lotto tickets?


Public Schools Losing In Texas Lottery Payouthttp://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/05/17/public-schools-losing-in-texas-lottery-payout/

pgardn
11-26-2013, 10:50 PM
The left is not waging a war on science, the right is. It is pretty easy to make that case vis a vis creationism on the part of the evangelicals driving the GOP bus.

Paying teachers more, and having more of them does affect performance.

Simple supply and demand dictates that the supply of quality teachers will go up as pay is increased. It doesn't get any more basic free market than that. Economics 101.

I would, though be interested to see on what basis you could claim "the left hates science"? link?

The right hates specific areas of science. Evolution, and the Big Bang. The right refuses to understand that science is the most accurate method human beings use to understand the natural world. You want a class on the history of religious thought, fine. Just don't call it a science class.

baseline bum
11-26-2013, 11:02 PM
The right hates specific areas of science. Evolution, and the Big Bang. The right refuses to understand that science is the most accurate method human beings use to understand the natural world. You want a class on the history of religious thought, fine. Just don't call it a science class.

That, and it hates funding science too.

pgardn
11-27-2013, 12:41 AM
That, and it hates funding science too.

Maybe my comment was too broad. It's the fundamentalist religious right. The fanatics of the right that helps the party lose elections.

Alex Jones
11-27-2013, 01:03 AM
science is the most accurate method human beings use to understand the natural world.

:lmao

PQL5E93m0iY

boutons_deux
11-27-2013, 11:32 AM
Bill Gates Imposes Microsoft Model on School Reform: Only to Have the Company Junk It After It Failed

New school systems are stuck with a model designed to trash teachers, while Microsoft employees collaborate and work on teams

Using hundred of millions of dollars in philanthropic largesse, Bill Gates persuaded state and federal policymakers that what was good for Microsoft would be good for the public schools system (to be sure, he was pushing against an open door). To be eligible for large grants from President Obama’s Race to the Top program, for example, states had to adopt Gates’ Darwinian approach to improving public education. Today more than 36 states have altered their teacher evaluations systems with the aim of weeding out the worst and rewarding the best.

Needless to say, the whole process of what has come to be called “high stakes testing” of both students and teachers has proven devastatingly dispiriting.According (https://www.metlife.com/assets/cao/foundation/MetLife-Teacher-Survey-2012.pdf) to the 2012 MetLife Survey of the American Teacher, over half of public school teachers say they experience great stress several days a week and are so demoralized that their level of satisfaction has plummeted from 62 percent to 39 percent since 2008.

Now, just as public school systems have widely adopted the Microsoft model in order to win the Race to the Top, it turns out that Microsoft realizes its model has led the once highly competitive company in a race to the bottom.

In a widely circulated 2012 article (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer) in Vanity Fair, two-time George Polk Award winner Kurt Eichenwald concluded (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmer) that stacked ranking “effectively crippled Microsoft’s ability to innovate." He writes, “Every current and former Microsoft employee I interviewed—every one—cited stack ranking as the most destructive process inside of Microsoft, something that drove out untold numbers of employees. It leads to employees focusing on competing with each other rather than competing with other companies.”

This month Microsoft abandoned the hated system.

four key elements in the company’s new policy.


More emphasis on teamwork and collaboration.
More emphasis on employee growth and development.
No more use of a Bell curve for evaluating employees.
No more ratings of employees.


“So let me get this straight. The big business method of evaluation that now rules our schools is no longer the big business method of evaluation? And collaboration and teamwork, which have been abandoned by our schools in favor of the big business method of evaluation, is in?”

http://admin.alternet.org/education/billionaire-bill-gates-and-his-army-reformers-terrible-idea-bringing-ruthless-corporate?akid=11192.187590.fWfkfd&rd=1&src=newsletter929520&t=11

Wild Cobra
11-27-2013, 11:59 AM
The teachers are better now.

Special ed. and emphasis on the lowest common denominator are a huge problem imo.
Then maybe my schools were the exception. The curriculum is really weak now compared to the requirements when I was in school.

pgardn
11-27-2013, 12:36 PM
Then maybe my schools were the exception. The curriculum is really weak now compared to the requirements when I was in school.

Not the AP route. It is much tougher.

The regular curriculum, yes.

pgardn
11-27-2013, 12:37 PM
:lmao

PQL5E93m0iY

And Alex Jones meditates to feel the world...
What method is more accurate Alex?
Where will the moon be in relationship to the sun and Earth in 5 years, and 25 seconds from now?
Your meditative projection?

RandomGuy
12-02-2013, 03:10 PM
Maybe it will, but it will also attract more of the ones who know how to game the system.

Do you agree or disagree that the bureaucracy in the education field is a major problem?

I say it is the primary problem.

I have spoke of raising teachers pay, but only as merit pay. Not a step system. Reward the good teachers, and let the poorer ones pay raises go stagnant.

I don't think I have enough solid data to say if "administration" is a problem or not. I know there are lots of legal requirements that have been overlaid onto the school system that administrators have to do their best to accomodate.

As for attracting people who "game the system": So what?

RandomGuy
12-02-2013, 03:21 PM
Bill Gates Imposes Microsoft Model on School Reform: Only to Have the Company Junk It After It Failed

New school systems are stuck with a model designed to trash teachers, while Microsoft employees collaborate and work on teams

Using hundred of millions of dollars in philanthropic largesse, Bill Gates persuaded state and federal policymakers that what was good for Microsoft would be good for the public schools system (to be sure, he was pushing against an open door). To be eligible for large grants from President Obama’s Race to the Top program, for example, states had to adopt Gates’ Darwinian approach to improving public education. Today more than 36 states have altered their teacher evaluations systems with the aim of weeding out the worst and rewarding the best.

Needless to say, the whole process of what has come to be called “high stakes testing” of both students and teachers has proven devastatingly dispiriting.According (https://www.metlife.com/assets/cao/foundation/MetLife-Teacher-Survey-2012.pdf) to the 2012 MetLife Survey of the American Teacher, over half of public school teachers say they experience great stress several days a week and are so demoralized that their level of satisfaction has plummeted from 62 percent to 39 percent since 2008.

Now, just as public school systems have widely adopted the Microsoft model in order to win the Race to the Top, it turns out that Microsoft realizes its model has led the once highly competitive company in a race to the bottom.

In a widely circulated 2012 article (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer) in Vanity Fair, two-time George Polk Award winner Kurt Eichenwald concluded (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmer) that stacked ranking “effectively crippled Microsoft’s ability to innovate." He writes, “Every current and former Microsoft employee I interviewed—every one—cited stack ranking as the most destructive process inside of Microsoft, something that drove out untold numbers of employees. It leads to employees focusing on competing with each other rather than competing with other companies.”

This month Microsoft abandoned the hated system.

four key elements in the company’s new policy.


More emphasis on teamwork and collaboration.
More emphasis on employee growth and development.
No more use of a Bell curve for evaluating employees.
No more ratings of employees.


“So let me get this straight. The big business method of evaluation that now rules our schools is no longer the big business method of evaluation? And collaboration and teamwork, which have been abandoned by our schools in favor of the big business method of evaluation, is in?”

http://admin.alternet.org/education/billionaire-bill-gates-and-his-army-reformers-terrible-idea-bringing-ruthless-corporate?akid=11192.187590.fWfkfd&rd=1&src=newsletter929520&t=11

Ish. As someone who has been reading business books and management books of one flavor or another for two decades, I shudder at the notion of making schools "more business-like".

The number of management fads and business trends I have seen come and go simply says to me that the pointy haired ones are in full control.

Microsoft isnt' the only one dumping that ueber competitive stupidity:
Adobe stock up 68% since abandoning stack ranking:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/11/29/adobes-stock-up-68-since-it-dumped-stack-ranking-will-microsofts-follow/

Winehole23
12-02-2013, 03:25 PM
RG: I'll see if I can find the stat, but the growth of administrators and spending on administration has grown dramatically in the last sixty years. to the benefit of whom besides the highly-credentialled, non-teaching class of education professionals, one wonders.

Wild Cobra
12-02-2013, 07:22 PM
I don't think I have enough solid data to say if "administration" is a problem or not. I know there are lots of legal requirements that have been overlaid onto the school system that administrators have to do their best to accomodate.

As for attracting people who "game the system": So what?
Maybe the federal government should just get out of education, and allow for the 10th amendment to do as it is intended to... Allow each state to do different things, then other states will adopt what works best.

RandomGuy
12-03-2013, 05:57 PM
Maybe the federal government should just get out of education, and allow for the 10th amendment to do as it is intended to... Allow each state to do different things, then other states will adopt what works best.

We already do that for the most part. Unless you have something specific in mind that you want to get rid of?

This sounds like yet another in a very long line of hand-wavy factless wishes that seems to pass for policy solutions these days. Give me something specific that you want done. Please.

boutons_deux
01-05-2014, 12:25 PM
http://nationalmemo.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/teachers-fault.jpg

CosmicCowboy
01-05-2014, 01:11 PM
According to news reports, the Texas Board of Education today gave preliminary approval to a proposal to drop the second year of Algebra requirement for high school graduation. There was already a pathway for avoiding the second year of math requirement by taking a general curriculum rather than a college prep curriculum. Approximately 20 % of Texas high schoolers already took that approach. Now this change will allow even students pursuing an alleged 'academic' curriculum to avoid Algebra II.

Really impressive, eh?

Math? MATH?! We don't need no steenking math!!!

I went deep into the math maze in high school and college including calculus, trig, analyt, etc. I guess it served it's purpose in proving I was smart enough to do it, but to be honest the most advanced math I have used in my real life is basic geometry and simple addition, subtraction, and division. I have forgotten all the higher math I learned.

pgardn
01-05-2014, 02:08 PM
I went deep into the math maze in high school and college including calculus, trig, analyt, etc. I guess it served it's purpose in proving I was smart enough to do it, but to be honest the most advanced math I have used in my real life is basic geometry and simple addition, subtraction, and division. I have forgotten all the higher math I learned.

But the reasoning pathways one builds are invaluable. Mental gymnastics = critical brain exercise.

The business community does not know this? The people I know in my business understand this.

CosmicCowboy
01-05-2014, 02:31 PM
But the reasoning pathways one builds are invaluable. Mental gymnastics = critical brain exercise.

The business community does not know this? The people I know in my business understand this.

I'm not arguing that. The sad fact is that the average product of the 2014 education system is vastly inferior to the average product of the 1970 system which was probably inferior to earlier educational years systems. Every year we demand less and less of our students. If you need proof of that just look at the shocking ignorance and illiteracy of your average Club poster.

pgardn
01-05-2014, 04:10 PM
But the reasoning pathways one builds are invaluable. Mental gymnastics = critical brain exercise.

The business community does not know this? The people I know in my business understand this.


I'm not arguing that. The sad fact is that the average product of the 2014 education system is vastly inferior to the average product of the 1970 system which was probably inferior to earlier educational years systems. Every year we demand less and less of our students. If you need proof of that just look at the shocking ignorance and illiteracy of your average Club poster.

Well then you did understand what higher math means to you even if you don't use it now?

You implied you did not. That's how I took it.

More is demanded of the best students imo. Much more. But not the avg. student. And if you want a glimpse why this is so look at what this STATE govt. tells schools what they want. The STATE wants graduation. Period. With or without rigor.

EVAY
01-06-2014, 09:56 AM
I went deep into the math maze in high school and college including calculus, trig, analyt, etc. I guess it served it's purpose in proving I was smart enough to do it, but to be honest the most advanced math I have used in my real life is basic geometry and simple addition, subtraction, and division. I have forgotten all the higher math I learned.

The logic and mental acuity required in higher math is irrelevant to whether or not the actual subject matter is repeated or applied in later life. For example, logic is rarely used per se in adult work environments ( i.e., how many times are you required to solve a syllogism written as a syllogism in business or personal life), but the use and application of logical thinking is everywhere evident in adult life, (with the notable exception of political punditry of course).

It is in that way that learning of higher math functions is relevant. My guess is that you use the critical thinking skills daily in what I know (from your reports) is a successful business. That reflects critical thinking, which reflects the necessary use of critical thinking in some of your education.

I no longer use the doctoral level statistics I learned in graduate school, but the application of logical and probabilistic thinking (plus the invaluable ability to see through useless polls and ass-backward inferences from poorly constructed methodologies) is everywhere useful in America, imo.

Nbadan
01-06-2014, 09:40 PM
But the reasoning pathways one builds are invaluable. Mental gymnastics = critical brain exercise.

The business community does not know this? The people I know in my business understand this.

:clap:clap:clap

This guy gets it.

boutons_deux
01-08-2014, 09:56 AM
An SBOE candidate's website:

Thombs, self-described on her Twitter page as an “international evangelist” and real estate agent

Thombs’ website (http://ladythombs4txkids.org/)made its debut last week.

She wrote that she’s running to fight — her spellings — “adgendas and ideoligies.”

That was right after the part about teaching the basics.

Parents are “criticle,” she wrote, and she’s an “advicate” and “expereinced.”

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/07/5468007/state-board-of-education-forum.html?storylink=addthis#.Usy-8vXm-is.twitter&rh=1


:lol Fucking TX rednecks, bubbas, "Christian" evangelists, what a bunch of not-yet-descended-from-monkeys!

TDMVPDPOY
01-08-2014, 05:03 PM
dropping harder subs to make it easier for dumbshits to qualify into courses lmao...

isnt most hard courses are filled by asians or fkn international students on scholarships? then once they graduate, give them a visa or citizenship to keep the talent

boutons_deux
01-09-2014, 01:54 PM
Another red state followig the Repug/tea bagger/VRWC strategy of devaluing, defunding, denigrating public schools (aka "let's privatize everything, shittiest possible schools for highest possible price")

What’s the Matter With Kansas’ Schools?

KANSAS, like every state, explicitly guarantees a free public education in its Constitution, affirming America’s founding belief that only an educated citizenry can preserve democracy and safeguard individual liberty and freedom.

And yet in recent years Kansas has become the epicenter of a new battle over the states’ obligation to adequately fund public education. Even though the state Constitution requires that it make “suitable provision” for financing public education, Gov. Sam Brownback and the Republican-led Legislature have made draconian cuts in school spending, leading to a lawsuit (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/us/kansas-legislature-threatens-showdown-with-court-over-school-financing.html?_r=0) that now sits before the state Supreme Court.

The outcome of that decision could resonate nationwide. Forty-five states have had lawsuits challenging the failure (http://www.educationjustice.org/litigation.html) of governors and legislators to provide essential resources for a constitutional education. Litigation is pending against 11 states that allegedly provide inadequate and unfair school funding, including New York, Florida, Texas and California.

Many of these lawsuits successfully forced elected officials to increase school funding overall and to deliver more resources to poor students and those with special needs. If the Kansas Supreme Court rules otherwise, students in those states may begin to see the tide of education cuts return.

Kansas’ current constitutional crisis has its genesis in a series of cuts to school funding that began in 2009. The cuts were accelerated by a $1.1 billion tax break, which benefited mostly upper-income Kansans, proposed by Governor Brownback and enacted in 2012.

Overall, the Legislature slashed public education funding (http://cjonline.com/news/education/2013-09-12/study-kansas-cuts-k-12-education-funding-fourth-most-nation) to 16.5 percent below the 2008 level, triggering significant program reductions in schools across the state. Class sizes have increased, teachers and staff members have been laid off, and essential services for at-risk students were eliminated, even as the state implemented higher academic standards for college and career readiness.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/opinion/whats-the-matter-with-kansas-schools.html?from=mostemailed

elections have consequences: electing Repugs fucks up everything (but red neck, cowboys, bubbas, red-staters keep fucking themselves up)