Game thoughts - Spurs @ Thunder - Game 15

[Cry Havoc]

The Recap:

San Antonio Spurs (13-1) v Oklahoma City Thunder (9-3), November 27th, 2013

Well, this isn’t the post I’d hoped I’d be writing, but here it is. The Spurs ventured to OKC to put their NBA season best 11 game win streak (tied with Portland) on the line against the Thunder. Early on in the 1st quarter, things looked to be going well for the Spurs. Parker found success off the pick and roll, getting deep into the lane repeatedly and scoring while Westbrook did a poor job of getting through screens. Tiago missed some early shots but was very aggressive in getting to the ball and rebounding. However, the game quickly boiled down to a few facts: The Spurs were physically unable to hit open shots, particularly from deep, score in transition, and above all they had no answer for Reggie Jackson. The 23 year old guard went off on the Spurs like Mo Williams back when he thought he was a good player.

The first half saw some 2nd quarter lead changes as the Spurs struggled to get buckets but made up for it with excellent team defense. At times I saw 4 Spurs converge near a spot where the Thunder looked to pass. They limited outside penetration and maintained a lockdown on Westbrook and Durant that lasted until about midway through the 4th quarter. The Thunder came out of the gate a bit lackadaisical and gave up a lot of early boards because of it. The Spurs meanwhile showed a lot of hustle to make up for their missed shots.

However, this trend couldn’t last, and to be honest, no team should expect to get a win in Oklahoma City when they shoot 7-27 from downtown and miss 5 of their 14 free throw attempts. The 2nd half saw a rejuvenated OKC team led by Reggie Jackson slowly assert control of the contest, as the Spurs began to collapse earlier on defense when they saw potential penetration. This freed up shooters all over the court and the Thunder were all too happy to oblige, picking apart the Spurs defense and drilling shots that most teams have no business even taking. All in all, the Spurs fought hard to keep it close, but the 4th quarter saw OKC take a big lead and lean on it, while the Spurs missed clutch tips and buckets in transition that should be easy for a team as polished and as experienced as San Antonio. When the final buzzer rang, the Thunder nabbed a big 94-88 win. The game did not feel like a 2 possession contest for most of the 4th, and perhaps is a testament to the Spurs ability to keep it close even though tonight was clearly not their night.

Tony Parker - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 turnovers

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/tony_parker.png

Tony Parker might not be a better point guard than Westbrook, but he is much smarter. Late in the 1st Parker was a one man fastbreak against three OKC defenders and managed to draw the foul despite all 3 of them being in proximity to him under the hoop. Just an amazing, heady, wily play from Tony, one that sports columns would use a lot of white-guy adjectives to describe. Parker was one of the few bright spots for the Spurs in this game. His ability to get into the paint and on the break, including an astonishing display of speed in the 2nd quarter where he ran past Westbrook so thoroughly that he didn’t even challenge Parker’s layup at the end was encouraging to see. However, there were several mishaps tonight by Tony, particularly in making clean passes in transition and ball rotation. Parker began to force the issue midway through the 3rd, and it resulted in a number of missed shots for the Frenchman. On defense, Tony maintained a very good hold on Westbrook for much of the game, forcing the speedster out of UCLA to go 2-16 from the field. Sadly though, a game where Westbrook scores a total of 6 points is a game you should win. Period. Parker’s forays into the lane seemed to be more desperate as the game progressed, and Tony finished a dismal 6-16 from the field.

B. For relentlessly forcing Westbrook out of his comfort zones and for being one of only two guys who had their head in the game in the first half for the Spurs.

Danny Green – 4 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 turnover

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/daniel_green.png

Danny Green missed all 4 of his threes tonight. When other players are off, Danny absolutely has to take it upon himself to be a rainmaker from deep. He didn’t do that tonight and the Spurs sorely needed it, not just for the points but to also keep OKC’s defense honest. Green played good help defense but otherwise was not an impactful player in any sense of the word, and a ghost of the man we hope to see each night for the Spurs.

D. For not stepping up in a “big” game. Are there big games in the regular season? Either way, dude needs to do better.

Kawhi Leonard – 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 steals, 1 turnover

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/kawhi_leonard.png

Kawhi Leonard was on his way to a signature performance tonight. Then the 4th quarter happened. For much of this game, Kawhi was the best player on the court for either team. He defended Durant fiercely, forcing KD to shoot a bevy of fadeaways and 3 pointers over the quantum singularity that is Kawhi’s hands. However, like Tony, Kawhi appeared to have the jitters in the 4th. The stats only show one turnover, but there were numerous blown opportunities for Kawhi to finish and pull the Spurs within a bucket. Leonard played a very poor final period and as a result shot 33% from the field. However, if not for his defensive prowess in the first three quarters, this game would have gotten out of hand in the first half. A plethora of easy putbacks found a way to rim off the iron, and Leonard missed a chance to save the day for the Spurs and preserve the winning streak. Between Tony, Danny, and Kawhi, the trio shot a combined 1-11 from 3.

http://i.imgur.com/0QpiKCi.gif

B+. Fantastic D on KD for 3 quarters and being the only guy apart from Tony on the starting 5 that even looked capable of scoring.

Tim Duncan – 11 points, 8 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 3 turnovers.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/tim_duncan.png

Not Duncan’s worst performance of the season, but perhaps that’s a troubling sign. Tim, like many of the Spurs, played very solid defense throughout much of the first half. He rotated well and clogged the lane as he has been known to do for a decade and a half now. His shot is very sporadic, and although it looked better at times, it’s still very unreliable and seems to affect Duncan’s confidence. Duncan’s counterpart, meanwhile, seems to shine against the Spurs like no other team, and went off for 17 points. Duncan had one very nice drive from the top of the key past Perkins to the goal, which prompted the Thunder commentators to describe Duncan as a methodical player. Odd choice of words, that.

D+. Tim. Where are you? We want you back. Show that the fire still burns, because this ship ain’t sailing far when Tiago Splitter is our best post player. Speaking of….

Tiago Splitter – 6 points, 9 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 disappearing act in the 2nd half.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/tiago_splitter.png

Tiago came out fired up and ready to play. He fought hard for boards underneath, played very good to occasionally excellent defense in the post, and forced OKC to pay attention to him on offense. He missed some early easy shots, but stayed aggressive. Then the 2nd half happened, someone at Chesapeake flipped a switch, and Tiago reverted back to being a 3rd tier big. Tiago needs to step up in these games if we are going to rely on him for production in the playoffs. Otherwise, I’d readily advocate giving his starting spot to Diaw, because Boris at least seems to want to be on the court when he’s out there.

D. Only because he got some boards.

Manu Ginobili – 12 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/emanuel_ginobili.png

You gotta love Manu. Win lose or draw, he’s going to make something happen. And if the rest of the team isn’t playing up to snuff, what do you have to lose? Manu was much needed energy tonight. Despite the turnovers, he played extremely hard on D and seemed to annoy the Thunder. He, along with Leonard were the most consistent Spurs tonight as far as energy level/intensity. The Spurs might have benefitted from seeing more of both Manu and Marco tonight. Manu also shot 50% on the evening, and given the standards the rest of the team set, it was needed.

B. For tireless effort on both sides of the ball but a couple of costly turnovers.

Boris Diaw – 10 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 turnover.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/boris_diaw.png

I really don’t understand why Diaw only played 19 minutes tonight, but I assume it was due to his subpar rebounding. The *other* French Meat on the Spurs vacillated between looking lost on defensive rotations and making the Thunder defense look completely befuddled as to how to guard his drives to the hoop. He went 2-4 from three on the night, including one that the Thunder announcers described as a “pump fake”, only a split second before the ball ripped the cords of the net.

C+. Good offense. Bad defense. A wash. 10 points in 19 minutes ain’t bad, though.

Marco Belinelli – 6 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/marco_belinelli.png

Marco badly missed a 3 in the 3rd quarter. His solution was to step about 3-4 feet back and heave another one at the rim. No dice. Aside from his extremely questionable shot selection, which is probably the reason he only saw 17 minutes, Belinelli played a decent game. He supplied the Spurs with some energy and was going after loose balls. But if he’s not hitting threes, it severely diminishes his value on the court. Tonight was not a good night for the 2nd 5.

C-. Horrible shot selection tempers an otherwise decent performance.

Patty Mills – 9 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 steal.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/patrick_mills.png

Probably the worst game I’ve seen from Mills all season. He was able to score, but his normally strong defense was the catalyst to set Reggie Jackson off for a career night. Mills played up tight on Jackson, who utilized his first step to completely blow past Mills. Mills didn’t learn, and Jackson gained confidence as the night wore on.

D. For his shockingly poor defensive performance, a precipice from the high standard he has set for himself thus far this year.

Jeff Ayres – 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/jeff_ayres.png

Ayres did not score and played limited defense in some of the most significant minutes he’s seen all season. Popovich seemed to give Ayres a shot to prove he belongs in this league and bang with the Thunder, and Ayres did precious little to justify his 12 minutes of time. His off-ball defense was perhaps the only acceptable thing from Ayres, but as it stands now, he does not deserve a place in the Spurs regular rotation. I’m as forgiving as it comes to new players working their way into the system but this might be the last season we see Jeff in the NBA.

D-. Boo.

Matt Bonner – 1 rebound, 1 assist, +8 IN TWO MINUTES WHAT THE HELL.

http://turnernbaallball.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/bonner_sh_1_100201_350.jpg?w=350&h=200

I really don’t get it. He is the king of +/- forever.

A+. We won by 8 when he was in the game.

Gregg Popovich

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/gregg-popovich-fine.jpg?w=300&h=315

Pop threw some different rotations out tonight, hoping to find a solution to dealing with OKC’s bigs who inexplicably can shoot from outside like they’re actually good players against us. At the end of the night, he has to have more questions than answers. Yet at the same time, the Spurs played easily one of their worst games in recent memory and were still in it late in the 4th. That has to serve as some comfort, but for tonight, Pop’s lineups did not bring the requisite energy to stay with a top tier team in their home arena.

D+. If the 3s are falling tonight, he looks like a much better coach.

Team Grades

Offense
Abysmal in pretty much every aspect of the word. Poor shooting, poor shot selection, and absolutely no flow or rhythm. Given the lofty standards we have set for ourselves so far this season, this is a complete and utter failure and a “burn the tape” sort of game. No flow, no show, no mo’. That’s all you need to know.

F. A few nice passes weren’t enough to save this clown car of a game.

Defense
Actually I was pretty happy with our defense through three quarters. We hit a wall in the 4th, but I’d like to think that’s as much of a result from our offense being unable to convert as anything else. The Thunder got out in transition as the Spurs devolved into a Nuggets type offense of one on one, or even worse, a team coached by Jason Kidd. This put tremendous strain on the D, and eventually it bent beyond recognition, if not breaking entirely. Still, holding the Thunder off for 3 quarters at home is tough to do, especially considering they usually treat games vs. our squad as their Finals. I loved seeing our players diving into the lane for passes, or collapsing on driving players while keeping their options limited as far as passing out of trouble. Active hands on D alone will be good enough to win us a few close games this year.

B-. Great first act. Tragic finish.

[Cry Havoc]

Some minor edits to make it a little more worth reading.

[apalisoc_9]

:tu

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm surprised as hell that Bonner isn't getting more run than Ayers.. I guess it's true that this will be Bonners last season with the spurs and Pop doesn't want to get sentimental.

[jkid12456]

that was harsh on patty. maybe a c but not a d. those 3 pointers he did kept us in the game.

[jkid12456]

and tony didnt not play like his usual self at all. i would of given him a c atleast.

[Libri]

It looks like the Spurs were thinking more about the Thanksgiving holiday than the game.

[ElNono]

thanks

[TheGreatYacht]

that was harsh on patty. maybe a c but not a d. those 3 pointers he did kept us in the game.

Mills gets a D for bad defense? And Manu gets a B for bad defense on Lamb? Mills deserves better for at least sparking a run, C+ or B-

[jkid12456]

where the f is timvp for grading the games.

[Cry Havoc]

Mills gets a D for bad defense? And Manu gets a B for bad defense on Lamb? Mills deserves better for at least sparking a run, C+ or B-

Patty was worthless on D tonight. At least Manu had some positive defensive impact.

[apalisoc_9]

Patty was worthless on D tonight. At least Manu had some positive defensive impact.

Yeah Patty was on jackson when Jackson started taking over..

[Boomersgold]

Patty's grade is a bit harsh, but his defense, or lack thereof, was certainly a big reason for Reggie's career night in scoring. I like to think that OKC's strong screens had something to do with it as well.

Thanks for the grades, Havoc!

[TheGoldStandard]

Have to blame Pop for sticking with Patty on Jackson when he was knocking them down, took a good 7 or 8 shots before he made the switch.

[Baam]

Losing with Westbrook going 2-16 is pretty bad...

[jag]

:tu

[RD2191]

Losing with Westbrook going 2-16 is pretty bad...

[byrontx]

I was traveling and could not see the game. Thanks, Cry.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Letting the Spurs be within two points when you're at home and having their big 3 shoot 17-48 is pretty bad...

[justinandimcool]

We look like a completely different team against their length. We're slower moving the ball to the wings because they're in the passing lanes. We're scared to finish underneath because of Ibaka. We're all afraid to get in the paint because they have arms reaching all the time. We need to go deeper in the playbook tbh. They have us figured out- taking away our penetration and now our ball movement.

Tiago and Danny shrinking against real teams, that's to be expected at this point tbh.

Leonard is gonna want off the team in a couple years if he continues to not get touches because of hero ball tbh.

[Cry Havoc]

Losing with Westbrook going 2-16 is pretty bad...

I'll give Westbrook his usual 7/17 if it means we could actually hit a 3.

[PlayNando]

Should have kept Bonner in the game for longer, tbh. +/- king, per par. :lol

Play Bonner.

[Hoops Czar]

Marco Belinelli – 6 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/marco_belinelli.png

Marco badly missed a 3 in the 3rd quarter. His solution was to step about 3-4 feet back and heave another one at the rim. No dice. Aside from his extremely questionable shot selection, which is probably the reason he only saw 17 minutes, Belinelli played a decent game. He supplied the Spurs with some energy and was going after loose balls. But if he’s not hitting threes, it severely diminishes his value on the court. Tonight was not a good night for the 2nd 5.

C-. Horrible shot selection tempers an otherwise decent performance.


But Belinelli doesn't take terrible shots. How can this be?

[Robz4000]

:tu

All in all I'm pretty happy with this game. Expected loss, but even when everyone shot poorly the game was in reach.

[Ice009]

Yeah, I wasn't too pleased with Patrick tonight. I'd still give him a C- though. Hopefully his defense doesn't go down the toilet and he can keep improving on that end of the court. If not, then I won't mind Cory getting another shot at it. We absolutely must maintain defensive focus out there at all times. The offense won't always be consistent, but the Spurs gotta get to the point where the defense is as consistent as possible.

[TheyCallMePro]

It is absolutely unbelievable to me that Marco Belinelli didn't play a single second in the 1st quarter and played like only 3 minutes in the 3rd quarter. He only played 17 minutes total! We needed him desperately when our offense and ball movement bogged down in the 3rd. Sometimes Pop can be SO damn stubborn with the line-ups. I mean, he even put Bonner in before Belli in the 4th.

I rarely get on Pop, but he screwed up tonight. Other than not putting in Belli for long stretches he: left Patty in too long (Patty was in for Parker for half of the 4th quarter...) left Kawhi in too long (had only 2 points in the second half, because he was EXHAUSTED, and he also didn't play Splitter enough. The biggest mistake though was not trusting the foreign legion to carry the team. He left Kawhi in when they came in in the 2nd and left Belli on the bench. Big mistake. Screwed everything up.

[TD 21]

Marco Belinelli – 6 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/statscube/players/large/marco_belinelli.png

Marco badly missed a 3 in the 3rd quarter. His solution was to step about 3-4 feet back and heave another one at the rim. No dice. Aside from his extremely questionable shot selection, which is probably the reason he only saw 17 minutes, Belinelli played a decent game. He supplied the Spurs with some energy and was going after loose balls. But if he’s not hitting threes, it severely diminishes his value on the court. Tonight was not a good night for the 2nd 5.

C-. Horrible shot selection tempers an otherwise decent performance.

No, it isn't. The reason is simple: Since they foolishly constructed a roster with one player capable of defending one of the two players that stand between them and a championship and since said player's team rarely plays small currently, that meant someone in the wing rotation was going to get squeezed for minutes and that someone was always going to be Belinelli.

One of the main reasons I wasn't thrilled with the signing is because I knew he'd be virtually useless against the Heat/Thunder.



We look like a completely different team against their length. We're slower moving the ball to the wings because they're in the passing lanes. We're scared to finish underneath because of Ibaka. We're all afraid to get in the paint because they have arms reaching all the time. We need to go deeper in the playbook tbh. They have us figured out- taking away our penetration and now our ball movement.

Exactly. Parker + the system is good enough against 27 teams, but not the 2 that stand between them and a championship.

It's the same thing always every time they play them, especially on the road: It's a grind offensively, Duncan struggles mightily, Ibaka is all world, a few of their role players join him in playing out of their mind and they win despite Westbrook struggling mightily.

The issues will probably remain the same no matter what tweaks are made, but the coaching staff needs to come up with something in the next meeting. Generally, you save that type of thing for the playoffs against this caliber of opponent, but in this specific case, they need to make an exception. It's more important to get a better idea of whether they can beat this team in a series with their current personnel.

[Skull-1]

But Belinelli doesn't take terrible shots. How can this be?


He doesn't take ONLY terrible shots. Reference Tracy Morgan, aka Gary Neal.

[Skull-1]

No, it isn't. The reason is simple: Since they foolishly constructed a roster with one player capable of defending one of the two players that stand between them and a championship and since said player's team rarely plays small currently, that meant someone in the wing rotation was going to get squeezed for minutes and that someone was always going to be Belinelli.

One of the main reasons I wasn't thrilled with the signing is because I knew he'd be virtually useless against the Heat/Thunder.




Exactly. Parker + the system is good enough against 27 teams, but not the 2 that stand between them and a championship.

It's the same thing always every time they play them, especially on the road: It's a grind offensively, Duncan struggles mightily, Ibaka is all world, a few of their role players join him in playing out of their mind and they win despite Westbrook struggling mightily.

The issues will probably remain the same no matter what tweaks are made, but the coaching staff needs to come up with something in the next meeting. Generally, you save that type of thing for the playoffs against this caliber of opponent, but in this specific case, they need to make an exception. It's more important to get a better idea of whether they can beat this team in a series with their current personnel.

/thread. He said it all.

[TheGoldStandard]

No, it isn't. The reason is simple: Since they foolishly constructed a roster with one player capable of defending one of the two players that stand between them and a championship and since said player's team rarely plays small currently, that meant someone in the wing rotation was going to get squeezed for minutes and that someone was always going to be Belinelli.

One of the main reasons I wasn't thrilled with the signing is because I knew he'd be virtually useless against the Heat/Thunder.




Exactly. Parker + the system is good enough against 27 teams, but not the 2 that stand between them and a championship.

It's the same thing always every time they play them, especially on the road: It's a grind offensively, Duncan struggles mightily, Ibaka is all world, a few of their role players join him in playing out of their mind and they win despite Westbrook struggling mightily.

The issues will probably remain the same no matter what tweaks are made, but the coaching staff needs to come up with something in the next meeting. Generally, you save that type of thing for the playoffs against this caliber of opponent, but in this specific case, they need to make an exception. It's more important to get a better idea of whether they can beat this team in a series with their current personnel.

Insert Jeff Ayers

[Cry Havoc]

No, it isn't. The reason is simple: Since they foolishly constructed a roster with one player capable of defending one of the two players that stand between them and a championship and since said player's team rarely plays small currently, that meant someone in the wing rotation was going to get squeezed for minutes and that someone was always going to be Belinelli.

One of the main reasons I wasn't thrilled with the signing is because I knew he'd be virtually useless against the Heat/Thunder.

That's fine. Solid opinion. Who else were the Spurs going to get realistically in free agency?


Exactly. Parker + the system is good enough against 27 teams, but not the 2 that stand between them and a championship.

It's the same thing always every time they play them, especially on the road: It's a grind offensively, Duncan struggles mightily, Ibaka is all world, a few of their role players join him in playing out of their mind and they win despite Westbrook struggling mightily.

The issues will probably remain the same no matter what tweaks are made, but the coaching staff needs to come up with something in the next meeting. Generally, you save that type of thing for the playoffs against this caliber of opponent, but in this specific case, they need to make an exception. It's more important to get a better idea of whether they can beat this team in a series with their current personnel.

First of all, we were an evenly officiated quarter away from beating the Thunder. Over a 7 game series, we might shoot this poorly once. We played awful basketball and lost by 6. I would take us in a 7 game series right now vs. OKC and feel pretty confident about it.

As far as the Heat go, you're probably right, but once again, who COULD we have got that's going to be a difference maker vs. Miami?

[TD 21]

That's fine. Solid opinion. Who else were the Spurs going to get realistically in free agency?

Either a 3D backup SF/combo forward or a backup combo guard who can get their own shot. Those were the needs and neither was addressed, because they prioritized Ginobili insurance.



First of all, we were an evenly officiated quarter away from beating the Thunder. Over a 7 game series, we might shoot this poorly once. We played awful basketball and lost by 6. I would take us in a 7 game series right now vs. OKC and feel pretty confident about it.

As far as the Heat go, you're probably right, but once again, who COULD we have got that's going to be a difference maker vs. Miami?

This wasn't a one off. If you've been paying attention the past few seasons, you'd realize that virtually every time they play them, especially on the road, the game follows the same script. At some point, it's not a fluke.

[ElNono]

No, it isn't. The reason is simple: Since they foolishly constructed a roster with one player capable of defending one of the two players that stand between them and a championship and since said player's team rarely plays small currently, that meant someone in the wing rotation was going to get squeezed for minutes and that someone was always going to be Belinelli.

One of the main reasons I wasn't thrilled with the signing is because I knew he'd be virtually useless against the Heat/Thunder.

Not necessarily true. While I agree Kawhi would potentially see most of the minutes guarding Durant/Lebron, Belli can still play SG in the second unit, with Gino/Patty running backup PG.

Pop was toying with the rotation a lot today. The Thunder are a tough team to beat at home (just like the Spurs are on our floor). It's what happens when you play a solid team. I still think they're much weaker than when they had Harden out there (and no, Reggie Jackson isn't a Harden caliber player). We've done good against them when Tiago had good games. You need to establish that interior presence to open up the shots. Didn't happen today.

[Cry Havoc]

Either a 3D backup SF/combo forward or a backup combo guard who can get their own shot. Those were the needs and neither was addressed, because they prioritized Ginobili insurance.

Yeah, well I was hoping they'd grab a 7'4" 310 pound PG who can run a 9.6 100 meters and can dunk from the FT line.

Specifying obvious traits is nice. Can you name even one player available that would fit our needs and our budget?


This wasn't a one off. If you've been paying attention the past few seasons, you'd realize that virtually every time they play them, especially on the road, the game follows the same script. At some point, it's not a fluke.

Yeah, the past two seasons we've been a horribly officiated quarter away from an NBA finals, and 20 seconds from a championship. If that's a fluke, then so is 99.9% of pro teams in history. Come on now. We just went to Game 7 against a Superteam. Now you call us flukes? That's some weak stuff, dude.

[mingus]

Duncan struggles really bad against OKC frontline.

We missed a lot of threes but OKC was closing out really well. You could say that them not letting us get into a groove indirectly influenced our missed open shots. Threes are easier to hit when you're in a rhythm. Credit to OKC for not letting us ever get into one.

Other than that the Spurs missed too many point blank shots.

And Patty was way overplaying Reggie Jackson, which he killed us for.

All this and we only lost by 6. OKC's role players aren't going to go for what they did tonight in SA. Durant and Westbrook will have to play better to beat us at home, and I like what our defense did with them tonight.

[rasuo214]

It is absolutely unbelievable to me that Marco Belinelli didn't play a single second in the 1st quarter and played like only 3 minutes in the 3rd quarter. He only played 17 minutes total! We needed him desperately when our offense and ball movement bogged down in the 3rd. Sometimes Pop can be SO damn stubborn with the line-ups. I mean, he even put Bonner in before Belli in the 4th.

I rarely get on Pop, but he screwed up tonight. Other than not putting in Belli for long stretches he: left Patty in too long (Patty was in for Parker for half of the 4th quarter...) left Kawhi in too long (had only 2 points in the second half, because he was EXHAUSTED, and he also didn't play Splitter enough. The biggest mistake though was not trusting the foreign legion to carry the team. He left Kawhi in when they came in in the 2nd and left Belli on the bench. Big mistake. Screwed everything up.

If you take Kawhi out who guards Durant? Marco? I think Pop should have tried Marco + Manu backcourt until Durant subbed out, then brought in Patty or Green (if Manu or Marco did a good enough job at point) for Kawhi.

[racm]

That's fine. Solid opinion. Who else were the Spurs going to get realistically in free agency?



First of all, we were an evenly officiated quarter away from beating the Thunder. Over a 7 game series, we might shoot this poorly once. We played awful basketball and lost by 6. I would take us in a 7 game series right now vs. OKC and feel pretty confident about it.

As far as the Heat go, you're probably right, but once again, who COULD we have got that's going to be a difference maker vs. Miami?

And this was @ OKC. If the Spurs have HCA over the Thunder that could be huge.

[romain.star]

Thanks Cry, nice grades

[KL2]

Splitter was disgraceful, I couldn't get over how scared he looked out there. There was one point where he missed a point blank lay up because he was afraid Ibaka would swat him, dude just threw it up there as fast as he could instead of finish strong.

[team-work]

Thanks for the grades:tu:worthy:

[boutons_deux]

Can't Pop see that Ayres' is size and energy don't make for his lack of BBIQ and inability to shoot?

[BillMc]

Nice grades. Many thanks.

[EVAY]

We look like a completely different team against their length. We're slower moving the ball to the wings because they're in the passing lanes. ...

Leonard is gonna want off the team in a couple years if he continues to not get touches because of hero ball tbh.

You are right that we look completely different against their length and we are much slower. The main reason we are slower is because the only really good ball handler among the starting five is Parker. So if they can (and do) put someone as long as Ibaka on Parker or double team him the offense stagnates because there is no one else they HAVE to focus on. They can slow down our offense by slowing down Parker. Our second unit's ball movement often looks better than the first because if Manu, Marco and Diaw are all on the court at the same time the defense can't just focus on one guy because all of those guys can dribble and distribute the ball. They just couldn't hit anything last night. It happens.

I also agree that the coaching staff has to come up with some way to improve the team's response to other teams double-teaming Parker or putting someone as big and long as Ibaka (or LeBron) on him. They have known that for a long time but they still don't seem to have a way figured out. I believe that the solution is going to be something like what you suggested - i.e., going deeper into the playbook. But they also need to get another ball handler in at the same time as Parker so that the defense can't just tee off on him. Green, Leonard, Duncan and Splitter can't dribble their way off the floor if they have a defender anywhere near them. When Manu comes in things get better because he can draw some attention to his own ball handling.

Let's face it...one other thing is slowing down the offense. Duncan really struggles to keep up with a fast pace any more.

Your last comment baffles me, though. Leonard took more shots at the basket last night than any other spur. He took more than Tony, more than Duncan, more than Manu, more than Green. In other words, if there was any hero ball going on last night, I don't know who you think was doing it. Everybody on the starting team shot poorly in the second half. Everyone. Tony was shooting 50% at the half, and then fell off in the second half. Leonard took 18 shots on the basket and made what, 6 of them? (Same makes as Tony I think but with more shot attempts than Tony). Accusing people of hero-ball is a common comment in this forum, but it is rarely well deserved on this Spurs team. Pop just doesn't allow it. People either make their shots or they don't, but Pop is not going to allow folks (including Tony) to take more shots than he is comfortable with them taking. Last week in a game he told Tony that he was 'on the ball too much' when Tony was dribbling around like a madman, and Tony changed. Point being...nothing is happening on the court in terms of shot attempts that Pop does not want to be happening.

[EVAY]

Thanks for the grades and the observations, Cry Havoc. I'm always happy to read your observations and takes. Please keep doing it whenever you can.:toast

[dbestpro]

I give this grading effort a C-. A little too harsh in some areas. I mean get real. They lost by a few baskets on the road before Thanksgiving. Mills played the D the way he was suppose to. Mills crowded the shooter, while the big men struggled to rotate when Jackson penetrated. Might have been a good game for Baynes to play and knock a few people around.

[Raven]

i agree with most that's been written in this thread, also very solid grades.

[moisaenz]

Maybe this is the time Pop has to think about Baynes banging against OKC's front court.

[Cry Havoc]

Thanks for the grades and the observations, Cry Havoc. I'm always happy to read your observations and takes. Please keep doing it whenever you can.:toast

You're welcome. It's fun to do, although I wish it would have been a win, would have been lot more enjoyable.


I give this grading effort a C-. A little too harsh in some areas. I mean get real. They lost by a few baskets on the road before Thanksgiving. Mills played the D the way he was suppose to. Mills crowded the shooter, while the big men struggled to rotate when Jackson penetrated. Might have been a good game for Baynes to play and knock a few people around.

My grades had only a little to do with the final score. Given how well we have BEEN playing, I expected more from our guys. The team had SO many chances in the 4th quarter, and just didn't convert. This isn't meant to be a condemnation of any particular player, but an analysis of a title contending team that didn't have it on a single given night. As trademark as it is for the Spurs, I cannot be generous on a night when a random 23 year old goes off on our defense. I expect better from our guys. Who in particular did you have a problem with as far as grades go?

[Baam]

I have yet to watch the game but right now it seems like we have the 2012 version of Tim Duncan, Jackson may not be Harden but then again does he really need to be to make this series uncertain at best...

The main problem to me is post game, with their length you need to counter with good post game, to bully them or at least show them the ball and get them off their feet "insert Boris cream shake gif".

If Splitter can't do it then it sucks... This team is made to defend TP tbh, you need someone good inside... Maybe you start both Boris and Beli to take pressure off TP and have Green on Jackson. Do you really need Green on chuckbrook? I don't know but I don't feel confident at all so far, and that didn't start with this loss, I'm just not sure this is a real contender if Duncan doesn't play better...

[EVAY]

I have yet to watch the game but right now it seems like we have the 2012 version of Tim Duncan, Jackson may not be Harden but then again does he really need to be to make this series uncertain at best...

The main problem to me is post game, with their length you need to counter with good post game, to bully them or at least show them the ball and get them off their feet "insert Boris cream shake gif".

If Splitter can't do it then it sucks... This team is made to defend TP tbh, you need someone good inside... Maybe you start both Boris and Beli to take pressure off TP and have Green on Jackson. Do you really need Green on chuckbrook? I don't know but I don't feel confident at all so far, and that didn't start with this loss, I'm just not sure this is a real contender if Duncan doesn't play better...

I certainly think that your suggestion about starting Boris and Beli is worth a shot. Really, I was half expecting Boris to start last night and I think it would have been a good idea had he done so. I don't know for sure what the answer is, but I think you are awfully close, given our current personnel.

[weeks]

Have to blame Pop for sticking with Patty on Jackson when he was knocking them down, took a good 7 or 8 shots before he made the switch.
I understand he didn't want to destroy Patty's confidence, give him a chance.
but it should have been very clear after the first few drives that Patty wasn't up to it, or didn't get it.
Mills deserves a C- rather than D. He hit important shots.

[PlayNando]

Good grades for the most part, tbh. Timvp is proud.

[temujin]

Timely loss.
You could smell complacency all over the place.

As for the Thunder, I didn't really see anything different from last year.
Not a championship team by any means.

[TD 21]

Not necessarily true. While I agree Kawhi would potentially see most of the minutes guarding Durant/Lebron, Belli can still play SG in the second unit, with Gino/Patty running backup PG.

Pop was toying with the rotation a lot today. The Thunder are a tough team to beat at home (just like the Spurs are on our floor). It's what happens when you play a solid team. I still think they're much weaker than when they had Harden out there (and no, Reggie Jackson isn't a Harden caliber player). We've done good against them when Tiago had good games. You need to establish that interior presence to open up the shots. Didn't happen today.

Going the no backup PG route against the Thunder would be both unnecessary and insane. The former because there's virtually no difference in firepower between Mills and Belinelli and the latter because unlike the Heat, who lack a PG with dynamic off the dribble scoring ability, the Thunder have two and either would easily destroy the lead footed Belinelli off the dribble.

As much as I hate to admit it, it's like I suspected in the off season: The Thunder have become underrated now. They're still one of the two best teams in the West and they still cause the Spurs more problems than anyone else in the conference.




Yeah, well I was hoping they'd grab a 7'4" 310 pound PG who can run a 9.6 100 meters and can dunk from the FT line.

Specifying obvious traits is nice. Can you name even one player available that would fit our needs and our budget?

Yeah, because that's the equivalent of filling two modest needs.

They could have got creative. There's plenty of mid level players they could have either easily freed up enough cap space to afford or put together a package to acquire. I'm not going to bother getting into names, since many were discussed ad nauseam in the off season and because you'd just dismiss them for one reason or another to justify your stance.


Yeah, the past two seasons we've been a horribly officiated quarter away from an NBA finals, and 20 seconds from a championship. If that's a fluke, then so is 99.9% of pro teams in history. Come on now. We just went to Game 7 against a Superteam. Now you call us flukes? That's some weak stuff, dude.

I meant their games against the Thunder, mainly on the road, in recent seasons. You either haven't been paying attention or are in denial if you think they're still a fluke.

[hitmantb]

Spurs fan since DRob era, I think you guys are way too harsh on Pop, he is doing an absolutely amazing job to win with the team he has AND keeping minutes low for the big three. The team has really low talent compared to Miami/OKC, each has one of the top-two players in the NBA. As much as it hurt me (even today) to look back at the 28 seconds, Danny Green way overachieved that series and Spurs simply ran out of luck. Spurs will never win a title with Parker as the anchor (I know he won finals MVP in 2007 but that was only one series, Duncan was still the anchor), he is easily worn down by long defenders like LeBron or Sefolosha after 3 quarters. For all the Spurs struggles, Westbrook will never score 6 points again.

At end of games Spurs simply lacks the equivalent of a LeBron drive or Durant jumper. They really have to play perfect systematic basketball to win. And right now that system is broken because Duncan is nowhere near as good 2012/2013 versions. Unless he gets back to 2013 levels and Leonard takes the next step toward growing into the best player on this team. They have no chance beating a healthy Miami or Thunder team in a best of 7.

If I am Pop, I will take the gamble and give Kwahi 15-18 shots a game. Paul George was a nobody not long ago, give Kwahi enough shots, don't worry if he goes cold for a few stretches (just ask Durant, it is perfectly OK to shoot .400 on some nights, keep shooting!), he needs to be the #1 option on this team.

[Skull-1]

Good grades for the most part, tbh. Timvp is proud.


Shut up, idiot. Nobody cares what you think.


You CAN RELIEVE HISTORY. IT'S NOT MY FKN FAULT THAT YOU ARE ILLITERATE AND CAN'T READ ENGLISH EVEN THOUGH IT'S YOUR SCUMMY COUNTRY'S NATIVE TONGUE. LOTS OF AMERICANS CAN'T READ, PER PAR.

[313]

If you take Kawhi out who guards Durant? Marco? I think Pop should have tried Marco + Manu backcourt until Durant subbed out, then brought in Patty or Green (if Manu or Marco did a good enough job at point) for Kawhi.
Diaw did a fine job guarding Bron in the finals

[playbonner15]

Matt Bonner – +8 IN TWO MINUTES


ST posters still posting their shitty takes, ignoring what is blatantly obvious. The numbers don't lie. Let Bonner Shoot #TheRedMambaHasRisen

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol NBA fans overreacting to a meaningless game in an 82 game regular season, as usual..

Spurs and Thunder are 2 of the 4 legit contenders in the NBA, they're going to exchange wins in this meaningless regular season, tbh..

[PlayNando]

Shut up, idiot. Nobody cares what you think.
You wouldn't say that if you knew who I was.

Sucks to be you, tbh. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

:lol NBA fans overreacting to a meaningless game in an 82 game regular season, as usual..

Spurs and Thunder are 2 of the 4 legit contenders in the NBA, they're going to exchange wins in this meaningless regular season, tbh..

There's no such thing as a meaningless game. You strive for the #1 seed. If you go into the playoffs facing off against a team with a higher ranking, assuming the majority of the time the home team loses a game, that would force the lower seed to win two road games. That can be a big deal if you're facing a good home team.

[Cry Havoc]

Yeah, because that's the equivalent of filling two modest needs.

They could have got creative. There's plenty of mid level players they could have either easily freed up enough cap space to afford or put together a package to acquire.

It's a simple question. I asked you who you think the Spurs had a realistic shot at that would help against the Heat.


I'm not going to bother getting into names, since many were discussed ad nauseam in the off season and because you'd just dismiss them for one reason or another to justify your stance.

Sorry you feel that way, but that's a really weak response. Of course I'm going to advocate for my stance on things. You basically said, "I'm not going to contribute to this conversation because it's not worth it." So why even respond in the first place?


I meant their games against the Thunder, mainly on the road, in recent seasons. You either haven't been paying attention or are in denial if you think they're still a fluke.

I think missing wide open 3s repeatedly is pretty flukish. We missed a ton of open layups last night as well.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Cry Havoc,

I would tend to agree a little with the argument that the Spurs, for all their fantastic record so far, hasn't had answered the Heat question fully.

There were a lot of missed opportunities in the offseason (because of various circumstances). The first was the failure of the AK47 courting, and perhaps other minor options who could have been useful such as Omri Casspi for e.g. Also, a little of belligerence in trying to trade Bonner (or waive him before his salary was guaranteed) could have done a lot more to shore up Kawhi's backup option. If they had possibly offered Bonner's contract along with Nando's/Baynes' perhaps, they could have landed Ariza. Perhaps they did and it was rejected. But overall, I think the Spurs went for a more safe, but sub-optimal strategy of merely replacing Neal & Blair for Belinelli & Ayres. Not that this was a bad move, but they could have perhaps done better.

[Expert]

It's almost safe to say that the Spurs suffered from the turning of the worm, that their incredibly high shooting percentage finally began to return to the mean, however the truth is that the Thunder closed out on shooters (as made evident by how many passes were required before the after-the-buzzer shot attempt was made at the end of the 3rd quarter). Danny never really got a clean look. When he received a pass from Tim, it was often at his ankles. Tim's passing is almost as bad as his shooting recently. There was no ball movement from side to side because the Thunder wouldn't allow it. The 2nd unit never got going for the same reason.

So though some of the woes were shooting (the final score indicates we played decent defense in keeping them below 100pts) those woes were caused as much by their defense as by our poor shooting. We did keep Durant in mortal territory, and off the FT line for the most part. RW was completely ineffective. Unfortunately, they also have a good bench.

[ElNono]

Going the no backup PG route against the Thunder would be both unnecessary and insane. The former because there's virtually no difference in firepower between Mills and Belinelli and the latter because unlike the Heat, who lack a PG with dynamic off the dribble scoring ability, the Thunder have two and either would easily destroy the lead footed Belinelli off the dribble.

As much as I hate to admit it, it's like I suspected in the off season: The Thunder have become underrated now. They're still one of the two best teams in the West and they still cause the Spurs more problems than anyone else in the conference.

Belli won't be playing backup PG, it will be Manu or Patty. Belli will have to cover Lamb, which he can do. You're overrating Reggie Jackson after one game. This is a guy that averages 10ppg and shoots 24% from downtown. There's nothing "dynamic off the dribble" about him. You have to pay attention to him, and protect the basket, but he's no Harden. I don't agree they're underrated. I think most everyone agrees they're a solid team. They just don't have the same talent level that took them to the Finals, and so there's always going to be some doubts.

[ElNono]

There's no such thing as a meaningless game. You strive for the #1 seed. If you go into the playoffs facing off against a team with a higher ranking, assuming the majority of the time the home team loses a game, that would force the lower seed to win two road games. That can be a big deal if you're facing a good home team.

On paper is all like that, and you always strive for that top seed, but the reality is that one bad game (or one good game from the opponent) can throw everything up in the air. See: Golden State series last season.

The reality is that if you're a worthy team, you have to be able to win on the road. I know the Spurs have said they value seeding, but they also value a lot of other things, like rest and health.

They played hard last night, even if it wasn't always pretty. They played to win, and they came up short. It's not like they threw the game. It's still November, no time to go full on paranoid just yet.

[heyheymymy]

what is the deal with the role players/scrubs from the Thunder?

Ibaka, Fisher, Collison, and now Jackson all have had a "Jesus Jordan" game against the Spurs.

[Skull-1]

You wouldn't say that if you knew who I was.

Sucks to be you, tbh. :lol

Unless you're my mother, boss, or lawyer I really don't care who you are. Now go "relieve" history. :lol

[will_spurs]

If I'm not mistaken the Spurs had matched their best start ever at 13-1 after winning against the Pelicans... it was pretty clear to me that the next game would be a loss :)

Thanks for the notes as I couldn't watch this game. Ibaka needs to be curbed with a few vicious dunks (the kind where he is getting tea-bagged). We need an enforcer-type big man, be it Baynes, Ayres or somebody else (as it's pretty clear Tim, Tiago, Boris or Matt don't fit this role).

[itzsoweezee]

The spurs strategy is to force the opposition into shooting lots of midrange jumpers - typically the most inefficient shot in basketball. Unfortunately, the thunder are great at these shots. Hope popovich doesn't simply expect them to start missing these shots.

[Embedded]

At least the Jailblazers lost to Phoenix. so we gave up no ground there.

[rasuo214]

Diaw did a fine job guarding Bron in the finals

The poster I responded to wanted Marco to play more. Unless you're playing Marco and Manu at the guards and Diaw at SF (with Bonner and Ayres as the bigs) I'm not sure how it'd work. Diaw got to cover Lebron because the Heat play small ball, the Thunder not so much.

[TD 21]

It's a simple question. I asked you who you think the Spurs had a realistic shot at that would help against the Heat.

Spursfanfromafar named some and there were others I'm sure you heard mentioned numerous times during the off season.


I think missing wide open 3s repeatedly is pretty flukish. We missed a ton of open layups last night as well.

That's what everyone always says when their team losses. The reality is, there has been a trend to the games these two have played the past three seasons, especially when the Spurs have been on the road.

It's not that the Spurs can't beat them in a series, it's that they didn't bring in player(s) who could help do so and instead of putting space between them and the Thunder, they've ensured that it'll be a 1A, 1B type scenario.


Belli won't be playing backup PG, it will be Manu or Patty. Belli will have to cover Lamb, which he can do. You're overrating Reggie Jackson after one game. This is a guy that averages 10ppg and shoots 24% from downtown. There's nothing "dynamic off the dribble" about him. You have to pay attention to him, and protect the basket, but he's no Harden. I don't agree they're underrated. I think most everyone agrees they're a solid team. They just don't have the same talent level that took them to the Finals, and so there's always going to be some doubts.

In essence, what I'm saying is, there's only room for five perimeter rotation players to play against them (a sixth can get spot minutes). The fifth spot comes down to Belinelli and Mills. Since Mills has a much better chance to adequately defend either of their PG's and offers equal or greater shooting/scoring, it makes sense to go with him.

Who cares what his ppg is? He plays 20-25 mpg (when they're healthy), with two of the highest usage players in the league. He's not great, but he's clearly emerging as one of the better penetrating PG's in the league.

[weeks]

seems to me the spurs considered how close they were last year and didn't want to fiddle with things too much.
seeing how timmy has struggled, i wonder if they should have played it a little bit riskier. being too safe and careful leads to stagnation

[ElNono]

In essence, what I'm saying is, there's only room for five perimeter rotation players to play against them (a sixth can get spot minutes). The fifth spot comes down to Belinelli and Mills. Since Mills has a much better chance to adequately defend either of their PG's and offers equal or greater shooting/scoring, it makes sense to go with him.

I think Belli will get some of Danny's minutes if Danny isn't "on". That's why I don't think this is a Mills/Belli equation.


Who cares what his ppg is? He plays 20-25 mpg (when they're healthy), with two of the highest usage players in the league. He's not great, but he's clearly emerging as one of the better penetrating PG's in the league.

For one, you know what kind of damage he can do to you on average. He's not a 3 point shooter nor a high assist guy. Not really concerned about him, tbh.

[Hoops Czar]

On paper is all like that, and you always strive for that top seed, but the reality is that one bad game (or one good game from the opponent) can throw everything up in the air. See: Golden State series last season.

The reality is that if you're a worthy team, you have to be able to win on the road. I know the Spurs have said they value seeding, but they also value a lot of other things, like rest and health.

They played hard last night, even if it wasn't always pretty. They played to win, and they came up short. It's not like they threw the game. It's still November, no time to go full on paranoid just yet.

Right, but I was responding to Harlem's post saying how it was a meaningless game in a meaningless regular season. I don't think it was meaningless game and the players and coaches weren't playing like it was a meaningless game.

Win your games early and you get the opportunity to rest your players late.